This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hello all. I'm very excited to see a Vietnamese WikiProject finally assembled. As a Japan scholar, Southeast Asia has always interested me but has always been on the side.. What I guess I'm trying to say is I'm no expert, but I'm happy to be here.
One set of articles which I think could use some serious help from experts are those describing historical subdivisions of Vietnam. I'm afraid I am far from familiar enough with Vietnam's history overall to be able to tackle this alone, so I hope that others can jump in. Some terms which I think need better, clearer, explanations, along with some care taken to accurately represent the overlaps in terminology:
Confusing, yes. But I'm hoping that some movement can be made on this issue. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks. LordAmeth 11:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I understand that Chinese characters are no longer used in Vietnam, but as the language is derived from them, I find them quite useful for understanding the meaning and origin of terms. To seek the origin of the word Annam not purely from its Western sound (which means nothing) but from its Chinese origins (安南 - "the peaceful south", an exonym used by the Chinese to refer to the tributary state to their south) reveals something interesting and useful, I feel. After some searching, I have finally satisfied my curiosity as to the character used for Viet - 越. I understand the meaning behind Vietnam ( 越 南) and Dai Viet (大越), but I have just come across a reference to Dai Nam (大南). Is this simply a synonym, or does it refer to something else? LordAmeth 17:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I feel glad that a WikiProject for Vietnam has been established after all. There're a lot of things to do. However, I think that we should create a standardize form for Vietnam-related articles first. I have problem using the diacritic for Vietnamese names. For example, User:Sesel renamed Huynh Phu So to Huỳnh Phú Sổ [1] and recently User:Blnguyen has reverted the move [2]. User:DMG413 performed the similar action as Sesel [3] in article Xuân Diệu. I myself created article Nguyễn Nhật Ánh with diacritic. There's a requested move for Thích Quảng Ðức and the result is "keep". IMO I support the diacritic pattern. We need a synchronization in the naming system. A W 09:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I am at a loss to know what to do with the old Encyclopedia Britannica stuff in the above article. Should it stay where it is? Could some or all of it go into History of Vietnam? Or should it just be junked? Any suggestions welcomed, or just take bold action. Itsmejudith 20:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Would it be useful to agree some basic guidelines here for assessing articles? My assumption is that top importance is reserved for a very small number of articles: Vietnam, History of Vietnam, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam War, perhaps just a few more. Does that mesh with what others are thinking? Then high importance would be all the provinces, other cities, the archdioceses, major hospitals and universities, the historical dynasties, historical figures such as Ho Chi Minh, Ngo Dinh Diem and Vo Nguyen Giap, major tourist resorts, geographical features such as Ha Long Bay, the former French colonies such as Cochinchina. I don't have particularly strong views about the classification but if we are going to make inroads into the assessment then some consistency might be useful. Thanks. Itsmejudith 19:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
This might be useful. 19th Unified Dai Nam Map from the National History Book of the Nguyen Dynasty. Source Yellowtailshark ( talk) 07:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There needs to be a consistent naming policy for article names of Vietnamese place-names and people. Currently some names are written without diacritics, while others have them. While I have no strong feelings toward one or another, we still need to come to a consensus about which format to use. DHN 00:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Please see
Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) on this matter.
Yellowtailshark (
talk) 06:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone want to start a monthly collaboration article or anything. One very bad article springs to mind.... North Vietnam.....oh and we just got another FA. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 02:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
yes good idea I wish someone with the knowledge would do something with General Phan Van Tra biography as I believe he is dead and was told he was involved with the interim Southern Government as well, but can't find much at all. Furthermore the biog page suggests he is alive but I think not.-- 203.99.250.7 ( talk) 03:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone familiar with this dish help expand the Kho article? Badagnani 02:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
An editor named Sl has apparently just moved all the province articles that had diacritics in the title to no diacritics, without discussion or consensus. Thoughts? Badagnani 16:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Sl just did the opposite. We've got a discussion going on at the project page. I said that for Vietnamese Americans who don't use diacritics, we shouldn't use them in article titles. In other cases they might be desirable in article titles due to the different pronunciations of several letters between English and Vietnamese (such as "d"). Badagnani 17:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I've just dropped the user a line. Badagnani 17:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
You're right--some titles were with diacritics, and some had none. It's because we never arrived at a consensus yet. Thanks for your work here in enhancing usability between the vi: and en: Wikipedias. Badagnani 17:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
In English Wikipedia we usually use the most common English rendering (i.e. Hanoi instead of Ha Noi). Or if it's an obscure place and there is no commonly used English rendering, we might use instead the way the province/city itself or the Vietnamese government refer to the name when discussing it in English on their official website or other publicity. Badagnani 18:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Can you explain in more detail? Badagnani 17:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) on this matter. Yellowtailshark ( talk) 06:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I've assessed Agent Orange as mid-importance and think that Agent White and the others should be low-importance. Do others agree? And what importance do we give to the articles on languages and language groups, e.g. Chamic. I don't want to assess too many that will have to be changed later. Thanks. Itsmejudith 20:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
What are the noodles used for Mì Quảng made from? Rice flour and turmeric? Any other ingredients such as wheat or tapioca flour? Does anyone have access to a package of commercially available noodles or can look this up in Vietnamese or ask someone who knows? Badagnani 06:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I am interested why there are 9 counties in Viet Nam called Châu Thành. Anyone know? - ✉ Hello World! 17:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm hoping to get this to FA in time for November 2, when he was killed. There's never been a VN FA on the main page before. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 04:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The Vietnam section in the above article has been expanded, but the English is not good and in several places I'm not clear what is intended. Does anyone have time to help out? Itsmejudith 21:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
If anyone wants to help out in regards to checking Vietnamese translations on Wiktionary, it would be much appreciated - we're developing something of a backlog: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Translations_to_be_checked_%28Vietnamese%29 Any help would be great. Thanks! Black-Velvet 11:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
There's a page written in Vietnamese, Gia đình phật tử, which is on AfD right now because it has gone untranslated for a month. You can comment on whether it should be deleted here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gia đình phật tử. (Cross-posted also to User talk:Blnguyen) Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh 01:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
The Southeast Asian cinema task force was recently started as a joint project of WikiProject Films and WikiProject Southeast Asia. Editors who are writing about Vietnamese films are welcome to join the project, where they will find support for collaboration on new articles and the expansion and promotion of existing articles. — Wise Kwai 11:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qing_Dynasty_map.png ( Source from Qing )
Dark Green: Qing China
Light Green: affiliated states
Vietnam was affiliated states of Qing China? is it true? Heinekenbeerlover 13:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
It appears that an editor is attempting to create a Vietnamese city infobox at Thai Nguyen. While we have a province infobox, I don't believe we have a Vietnamese city one (though Vietnamese Wikipedia appears to). Can someone help him/her? Badagnani ( talk) 03:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The article on Huỳnh Công Út, aka Nick Ut, starts with the explanation:
Now, I read in Vietnamese name that Vietnamese names generally consist of three parts: a family name, a middle name, and a given name, used in that order.
"Generally" doesn't mean "always". Is Huỳnh Công Út one of the exceptions, or is the explanation at the top of his article wrong? Anyway, what's the correct order for his Vietnamese name? If the article were to refer to him by his Vietnamese name (which in his case strikes me as pedantic), by which one of the three names should he be repeatedly referred? -- Hoary ( talk) 04:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
(Will also be posted to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China.) There is an anonymous editor who insists on (without discussion) removing Chinese characters and pinyin of Lý Nam Đế. Now, before I am to treat this person as a vandal, I'd like to get some general feelings about this. If you can, please discuss the issue on Talk:Lý Nam Đế. Thanks. -- Nlu ( talk) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Alert, people--I know it's the holidays but User:JacquesNguyen is moving many articles unilaterally (typically adding diacritics to the new titles). See edit history. There was no agreement on this previously; however, he does not participate in this WikiProject yet works on many Vietnam-related articles, where he has become known for massive blanking, use of bad language, and uncited copying of swathes of text from published history books in articles he has begun. Please turn your attention to this and take action if you believe it necessary. Badagnani ( talk) 23:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hello all. I'm very excited to see a Vietnamese WikiProject finally assembled. As a Japan scholar, Southeast Asia has always interested me but has always been on the side.. What I guess I'm trying to say is I'm no expert, but I'm happy to be here.
One set of articles which I think could use some serious help from experts are those describing historical subdivisions of Vietnam. I'm afraid I am far from familiar enough with Vietnam's history overall to be able to tackle this alone, so I hope that others can jump in. Some terms which I think need better, clearer, explanations, along with some care taken to accurately represent the overlaps in terminology:
Confusing, yes. But I'm hoping that some movement can be made on this issue. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks. LordAmeth 11:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I understand that Chinese characters are no longer used in Vietnam, but as the language is derived from them, I find them quite useful for understanding the meaning and origin of terms. To seek the origin of the word Annam not purely from its Western sound (which means nothing) but from its Chinese origins (安南 - "the peaceful south", an exonym used by the Chinese to refer to the tributary state to their south) reveals something interesting and useful, I feel. After some searching, I have finally satisfied my curiosity as to the character used for Viet - 越. I understand the meaning behind Vietnam ( 越 南) and Dai Viet (大越), but I have just come across a reference to Dai Nam (大南). Is this simply a synonym, or does it refer to something else? LordAmeth 17:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I feel glad that a WikiProject for Vietnam has been established after all. There're a lot of things to do. However, I think that we should create a standardize form for Vietnam-related articles first. I have problem using the diacritic for Vietnamese names. For example, User:Sesel renamed Huynh Phu So to Huỳnh Phú Sổ [1] and recently User:Blnguyen has reverted the move [2]. User:DMG413 performed the similar action as Sesel [3] in article Xuân Diệu. I myself created article Nguyễn Nhật Ánh with diacritic. There's a requested move for Thích Quảng Ðức and the result is "keep". IMO I support the diacritic pattern. We need a synchronization in the naming system. A W 09:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I am at a loss to know what to do with the old Encyclopedia Britannica stuff in the above article. Should it stay where it is? Could some or all of it go into History of Vietnam? Or should it just be junked? Any suggestions welcomed, or just take bold action. Itsmejudith 20:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Would it be useful to agree some basic guidelines here for assessing articles? My assumption is that top importance is reserved for a very small number of articles: Vietnam, History of Vietnam, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam War, perhaps just a few more. Does that mesh with what others are thinking? Then high importance would be all the provinces, other cities, the archdioceses, major hospitals and universities, the historical dynasties, historical figures such as Ho Chi Minh, Ngo Dinh Diem and Vo Nguyen Giap, major tourist resorts, geographical features such as Ha Long Bay, the former French colonies such as Cochinchina. I don't have particularly strong views about the classification but if we are going to make inroads into the assessment then some consistency might be useful. Thanks. Itsmejudith 19:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
This might be useful. 19th Unified Dai Nam Map from the National History Book of the Nguyen Dynasty. Source Yellowtailshark ( talk) 07:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There needs to be a consistent naming policy for article names of Vietnamese place-names and people. Currently some names are written without diacritics, while others have them. While I have no strong feelings toward one or another, we still need to come to a consensus about which format to use. DHN 00:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Please see
Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) on this matter.
Yellowtailshark (
talk) 06:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone want to start a monthly collaboration article or anything. One very bad article springs to mind.... North Vietnam.....oh and we just got another FA. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 02:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
yes good idea I wish someone with the knowledge would do something with General Phan Van Tra biography as I believe he is dead and was told he was involved with the interim Southern Government as well, but can't find much at all. Furthermore the biog page suggests he is alive but I think not.-- 203.99.250.7 ( talk) 03:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone familiar with this dish help expand the Kho article? Badagnani 02:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
An editor named Sl has apparently just moved all the province articles that had diacritics in the title to no diacritics, without discussion or consensus. Thoughts? Badagnani 16:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Sl just did the opposite. We've got a discussion going on at the project page. I said that for Vietnamese Americans who don't use diacritics, we shouldn't use them in article titles. In other cases they might be desirable in article titles due to the different pronunciations of several letters between English and Vietnamese (such as "d"). Badagnani 17:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I've just dropped the user a line. Badagnani 17:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
You're right--some titles were with diacritics, and some had none. It's because we never arrived at a consensus yet. Thanks for your work here in enhancing usability between the vi: and en: Wikipedias. Badagnani 17:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
In English Wikipedia we usually use the most common English rendering (i.e. Hanoi instead of Ha Noi). Or if it's an obscure place and there is no commonly used English rendering, we might use instead the way the province/city itself or the Vietnamese government refer to the name when discussing it in English on their official website or other publicity. Badagnani 18:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Can you explain in more detail? Badagnani 17:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) on this matter. Yellowtailshark ( talk) 06:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I've assessed Agent Orange as mid-importance and think that Agent White and the others should be low-importance. Do others agree? And what importance do we give to the articles on languages and language groups, e.g. Chamic. I don't want to assess too many that will have to be changed later. Thanks. Itsmejudith 20:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
What are the noodles used for Mì Quảng made from? Rice flour and turmeric? Any other ingredients such as wheat or tapioca flour? Does anyone have access to a package of commercially available noodles or can look this up in Vietnamese or ask someone who knows? Badagnani 06:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I am interested why there are 9 counties in Viet Nam called Châu Thành. Anyone know? - ✉ Hello World! 17:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm hoping to get this to FA in time for November 2, when he was killed. There's never been a VN FA on the main page before. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 04:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The Vietnam section in the above article has been expanded, but the English is not good and in several places I'm not clear what is intended. Does anyone have time to help out? Itsmejudith 21:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
If anyone wants to help out in regards to checking Vietnamese translations on Wiktionary, it would be much appreciated - we're developing something of a backlog: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Translations_to_be_checked_%28Vietnamese%29 Any help would be great. Thanks! Black-Velvet 11:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
There's a page written in Vietnamese, Gia đình phật tử, which is on AfD right now because it has gone untranslated for a month. You can comment on whether it should be deleted here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gia đình phật tử. (Cross-posted also to User talk:Blnguyen) Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh 01:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
The Southeast Asian cinema task force was recently started as a joint project of WikiProject Films and WikiProject Southeast Asia. Editors who are writing about Vietnamese films are welcome to join the project, where they will find support for collaboration on new articles and the expansion and promotion of existing articles. — Wise Kwai 11:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qing_Dynasty_map.png ( Source from Qing )
Dark Green: Qing China
Light Green: affiliated states
Vietnam was affiliated states of Qing China? is it true? Heinekenbeerlover 13:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
It appears that an editor is attempting to create a Vietnamese city infobox at Thai Nguyen. While we have a province infobox, I don't believe we have a Vietnamese city one (though Vietnamese Wikipedia appears to). Can someone help him/her? Badagnani ( talk) 03:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The article on Huỳnh Công Út, aka Nick Ut, starts with the explanation:
Now, I read in Vietnamese name that Vietnamese names generally consist of three parts: a family name, a middle name, and a given name, used in that order.
"Generally" doesn't mean "always". Is Huỳnh Công Út one of the exceptions, or is the explanation at the top of his article wrong? Anyway, what's the correct order for his Vietnamese name? If the article were to refer to him by his Vietnamese name (which in his case strikes me as pedantic), by which one of the three names should he be repeatedly referred? -- Hoary ( talk) 04:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
(Will also be posted to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China.) There is an anonymous editor who insists on (without discussion) removing Chinese characters and pinyin of Lý Nam Đế. Now, before I am to treat this person as a vandal, I'd like to get some general feelings about this. If you can, please discuss the issue on Talk:Lý Nam Đế. Thanks. -- Nlu ( talk) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Alert, people--I know it's the holidays but User:JacquesNguyen is moving many articles unilaterally (typically adding diacritics to the new titles). See edit history. There was no agreement on this previously; however, he does not participate in this WikiProject yet works on many Vietnam-related articles, where he has become known for massive blanking, use of bad language, and uncited copying of swathes of text from published history books in articles he has begun. Please turn your attention to this and take action if you believe it necessary. Badagnani ( talk) 23:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)