Note: I am working on a few mockups
Could you clarify what you are attempting to do as I don't quite follow you. Is the purpose to have the extra features which all TOL projects share, such as article assessment and importance, and then each project modifies for their own needs with text and an image, OR is it to only have one banner for all of these different projects? If it is the first where they will all share a common feature base, which each project modifies then I'm for it. If you want to replace all the different projects banners with one banner, then I don't think this is a good idea as I think it will stop people finding out about the various projects, and the projects themselves will loose their sense of community. Could you please expand what you mean. I couldn't quite understand from the examples you gave on the main page. Thanks, Mehmet Karatay 19:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, Circeus, you've been busy! Excellent job, here. I had been wondering if that was possible, but I'm a template novice. I set up both WP:CPS and WP:PLANTS assessment/project templates. I haven't taken a look at the template script, but a few questions:
If we can figure out those, I'd definitely support the simplification/unification. Oh, and one suggestion. I've noticed a lot of WikiProjects use "'''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is within the scope of..." instead of the simple "This article..." since some of these templates invariably are applied to many non-article pages. Not a big issue, but a style I prefer. Cheers, -- Rkitko ( talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Would article importance be included in the new template? I can see this generating problems - For example, chitin might be of low importance to TOL generally, but of high importance to the insect WikiProject. Debivort 03:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I think this solution while becoming standard across many projects is a worthy ideal. I wonder whether the nesting is in the wrong direction,
example say WP:Banksia Instead to the main WP tag being TOL The main tag should be WP Banksia with a reverse tree of Plants, then TOL. That indicates that WP:Banksia is the subjects focus project and that plants, and TOL are broader scope projects that support the subject area. Gnan garra 06:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps, for, say... Pinguicula moranensis.
{{Tree of Life |project=carnivorous-plants |class=FA |tree-of-life=yes |plants=yes |carnivorous-plants-importance=Mid |plants-importance=Low |TOL-importance=Low }}
How about that? I was thinking, WP:BANKSIA may not be the best example for a framework, since it's at such a unique intersection of the TOL WikiProject hierarchy as well as the Australian WikiProjects. It's going to need two templates on the talk pages anyway for the Australian projects. But let's not forget it when we're discussing here. The above example for carnivorous plants works well. And indeed if the example grew in one of those countries that have a project "biota" parameter, that could be included as well. Is this kind of what you were thinking of? -- Rkitko ( talk) 07:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I mentioned this to Circeus, but I now think I should have mentioned it here too. I've already had this discussion on unifying project banners with respect to a different WikiProject, and have come to quite strongly oppose the idea of top-down unification, for the following reasons:
A bottom-up system seems to have none of these disadvantages. Hesperian 11:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
As I've mentioned above in the first section ("Could you explain what you want to do in more detail"), I have created a possible new suggestion to a way to resolve the problem here. It may not be gold, but feel free to grow on it & add to it. I release my genius into the world. ;) Now, a better idea would be to create a bunch of task forces (Possibly for the 5 Kingdoms; Plant, Animal, Fungi, Monera & Protista - or more specific for the more popular subjects, such as Mammals, Birds, etc & Monera etc. This has been doen with Mil Hist with their topic groupings IE, WW1 task force, French Task force etc) & put them in place of the wikiprojects on this new template. Then, from those task forces, link to the main wikiprojects (IE, Task force animals could link to a number of wikiprojects such as Dinosaurs, Reptiles, Mammals etc etc). That way, real wikiprojects would still have their banners & rights, whilst TOL would still have a kind of unifying feature to it. So say on a single dinosaur article, it would have both the TOL template & the Wikiproject Dinosaur banner below it, & so on for other articles of different subject matter. This would satisfy most people, as it would 1)Leave current projects as is. 2)Give TOL some control & unity.
Another plan would be to link to TOL from each separate banner. EG, The Wikiproject Dinosaur banner would have their text & then attached to it in small writing or something "For an the overall project visit TOL" or soemthing better. Could work, but overall, I say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The current system is working for Wikiproject Dinosaurs - the question should be, "Why isn't it working for you?" Instead of trying to mix us up in your inactivity, sort yourself out on your own without making a site-wide shuffle up to initiate your TOL Dictatorship over all biological projects. ;) Anyway, cheers, Spawn Man 12:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Note: I am working on a few mockups
Could you clarify what you are attempting to do as I don't quite follow you. Is the purpose to have the extra features which all TOL projects share, such as article assessment and importance, and then each project modifies for their own needs with text and an image, OR is it to only have one banner for all of these different projects? If it is the first where they will all share a common feature base, which each project modifies then I'm for it. If you want to replace all the different projects banners with one banner, then I don't think this is a good idea as I think it will stop people finding out about the various projects, and the projects themselves will loose their sense of community. Could you please expand what you mean. I couldn't quite understand from the examples you gave on the main page. Thanks, Mehmet Karatay 19:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, Circeus, you've been busy! Excellent job, here. I had been wondering if that was possible, but I'm a template novice. I set up both WP:CPS and WP:PLANTS assessment/project templates. I haven't taken a look at the template script, but a few questions:
If we can figure out those, I'd definitely support the simplification/unification. Oh, and one suggestion. I've noticed a lot of WikiProjects use "'''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is within the scope of..." instead of the simple "This article..." since some of these templates invariably are applied to many non-article pages. Not a big issue, but a style I prefer. Cheers, -- Rkitko ( talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Would article importance be included in the new template? I can see this generating problems - For example, chitin might be of low importance to TOL generally, but of high importance to the insect WikiProject. Debivort 03:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I think this solution while becoming standard across many projects is a worthy ideal. I wonder whether the nesting is in the wrong direction,
example say WP:Banksia Instead to the main WP tag being TOL The main tag should be WP Banksia with a reverse tree of Plants, then TOL. That indicates that WP:Banksia is the subjects focus project and that plants, and TOL are broader scope projects that support the subject area. Gnan garra 06:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps, for, say... Pinguicula moranensis.
{{Tree of Life |project=carnivorous-plants |class=FA |tree-of-life=yes |plants=yes |carnivorous-plants-importance=Mid |plants-importance=Low |TOL-importance=Low }}
How about that? I was thinking, WP:BANKSIA may not be the best example for a framework, since it's at such a unique intersection of the TOL WikiProject hierarchy as well as the Australian WikiProjects. It's going to need two templates on the talk pages anyway for the Australian projects. But let's not forget it when we're discussing here. The above example for carnivorous plants works well. And indeed if the example grew in one of those countries that have a project "biota" parameter, that could be included as well. Is this kind of what you were thinking of? -- Rkitko ( talk) 07:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I mentioned this to Circeus, but I now think I should have mentioned it here too. I've already had this discussion on unifying project banners with respect to a different WikiProject, and have come to quite strongly oppose the idea of top-down unification, for the following reasons:
A bottom-up system seems to have none of these disadvantages. Hesperian 11:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
As I've mentioned above in the first section ("Could you explain what you want to do in more detail"), I have created a possible new suggestion to a way to resolve the problem here. It may not be gold, but feel free to grow on it & add to it. I release my genius into the world. ;) Now, a better idea would be to create a bunch of task forces (Possibly for the 5 Kingdoms; Plant, Animal, Fungi, Monera & Protista - or more specific for the more popular subjects, such as Mammals, Birds, etc & Monera etc. This has been doen with Mil Hist with their topic groupings IE, WW1 task force, French Task force etc) & put them in place of the wikiprojects on this new template. Then, from those task forces, link to the main wikiprojects (IE, Task force animals could link to a number of wikiprojects such as Dinosaurs, Reptiles, Mammals etc etc). That way, real wikiprojects would still have their banners & rights, whilst TOL would still have a kind of unifying feature to it. So say on a single dinosaur article, it would have both the TOL template & the Wikiproject Dinosaur banner below it, & so on for other articles of different subject matter. This would satisfy most people, as it would 1)Leave current projects as is. 2)Give TOL some control & unity.
Another plan would be to link to TOL from each separate banner. EG, The Wikiproject Dinosaur banner would have their text & then attached to it in small writing or something "For an the overall project visit TOL" or soemthing better. Could work, but overall, I say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The current system is working for Wikiproject Dinosaurs - the question should be, "Why isn't it working for you?" Instead of trying to mix us up in your inactivity, sort yourself out on your own without making a site-wide shuffle up to initiate your TOL Dictatorship over all biological projects. ;) Anyway, cheers, Spawn Man 12:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)