Dispute Resolution ( inactive) | ||||
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Instead list them in the Active Disagreements section of the main project page after reading the instructions at the top of that page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Third opinion page. |
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Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Can the following decline options be added to the templates (or maybe just {{ 3ORshort}}):
voorts ( talk/ contributions) 21:18, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I was this many days old when I realized that the instructions for providing a 3O mention that when you remove it from the project page that your edit summary should name the dispute. I don't know that I've ever seen an editor say which dispute they were taking. Does that instruction still serve any meaningful purpose? Should we be chiding editors for taking disputes without saying which ones in the edit summary? DonIago ( talk) 17:46, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
Courtesy link: Draft:3O-notice
I've just been going through the instructions for adding a 3O request for the first time afaicr, and I just added one. Now, I'm at the step for notifying the other editor about the conversation. I assumed I'd find a template, something like {{ ANI-notice}}, {{ Tfd notice}}, {{ Proposed deletion notify}}, or {{ DRN-notice}}, but no luck. It would make everybody's life easier if we had a template that would deal with it.
I don't see a noticeboard for 3O, so what should we point the other user to? They already know the way to the discussion that got deadlocked, so is it a new 3O discussion at the same page? Or just a continuation of the existing one? I've taken a shot at a proposed new template at Draft:3O-notice, but I'm not sure I understand the process or what it should say exactly, so please suggest improvements to it, or just update it directly. In the meantime, I need to notify the other user about the listing I posted at 3O. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 04:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I think there are times when a ping would be unhelpful, but I think it's good general practice. Given how infrequently I see the current guidance followed, I'm doubtful we'll see overpinging as a major issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Firefangledfeathers ( talk • contribs) 03:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Hi USER, and thank you for seeking out a third opinion. I declined your recent request related to Talk:ARTICLE, as there has not yet been thorough discussion. Please engage the other involved editor at the talk page. If local consensus does not develop, and if no other editors get involved in the dispute, feel free to post again at WP:3O.
Wow, heh, I was surprised to see so many responses; this went off in an unexpected (to me) direction. If my question prompted some improvement to the instructions or process, then I am glad of it. Iiuc, this means the Draft template is a dead letter, and can be abandoned, as it is no longer the guidance to message the user at their UTP.
I'm a 3O newbie, but an experienced editor and template writer, so if this discussion finds a need for a template that would provide a decline reason (or an accept message, with what happens next) then I'm happy to create it/them. The reason I like templates is that it makes things faster and gives me some security of using approved messaging; i.e., it saves me a few moments of thinking or worrying about, for example, how to devise wording to decline gently and in a neutral manner and not have to worry about my wording, as the text has already been vetted at least by the local community. So, the template is kind of a security blanket and time-saver. I do a certain amount of warning users about potential vandalism with the escalating user warning message series {{ uw-v1}} (and -v2, -v3, and -v4) and I'm very glad I don't have to think of wording each time I do. That said, sometimes I skip the canned message because I feel that some user in a particular situation needs a more customized message, and then I do that; the uw-v1 to uw-v4 templates are an option, not a requirement, and if one wished to have templates here, I imagine the same thing would apply. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 19:12, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Courtesy link: Draft:3O-decline
In response to various suggestions in the discussion above, I've created template Draft:3O-decline. It is testable at sandboxes and at Special:ExpandTemplates, but not yet ready for use as it is not fully tested, and is not subst-protected (i.e., do not subst for now). Here's an example:
Sample use of
Draft:3O-decline
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Hello, Third opinion, and thank you for seeking out a third opinion. I'm Alaexis, and I wanted to let you know that your recent request for a third opinion related to Template talk:Protection table has been declined, because there are more than two editors involved. Yadda, yadda. Please engage the other involved editors at the article talk page. If local consensus does not develop, and if no other editors get involved in the dispute, ; other avenues of dispute resolution are also open to you. Thank you!
Hello, Third opinion, and thank you for seeking out a third opinion. I'm Alaexis, and I wanted to let you know that your recent request for a third opinion related to Talk:Miss_Porter's School#User:Megadesk edit warring has been declined, because there has not been enough discussion. What discussion there was, was behaviorally focused, instead of about the content. Please engage the other involved editor at the article talk page. If local consensus does not develop, and if no other editors get involved in the dispute, feel free to post again at WP:3O; other avenues of dispute resolution are also open to you. Thank you! |
Feel free to update it directly or request changes below or at its Talk page. Mathglot ( talk) 20:57, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Your entry should contain the following: ... a date, but no signature. You can add the date without your name by using five tildes (~~~~~). (Note: your name will still be shown in your contributions and the page edit history.)voorts ( talk/ contributions) 00:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Since we're already talking about templates, I might as well add a note about Template:Third opinion, as I just had my first experience with it. I actually did not realize a template was involved—it was just the following text:
So, I added a neutral summary in one sentence. Turns out, what was wanted, was not a neutral summary, but argumentation in support of my view of things, but I didn't know that. If it were up to me, I would change the template and swap out the words "summarize the dispute" for something like, "summarize your position on the dispute" instead. Mathglot ( talk) 03:02, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
summarize your position on the dispute. If I can't provide a 3O based on the discussion as-is, and require clarification, the clarification I'm usually looking for is a position on the dispute, since the dispute itself is usually clear. However, I disagree that there should be a formal or semiformal process. Editors should feel free to mediate disputes in ways that might not be reducible to a template. For example, in situations where multiple issues are disputed, it might be helpful to first get a neutral statement of what exactly is in dispute before getting views on those issues. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 03:56, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
I've responded to a third opinion request here [1] but I don't feel able to resolve it. How should I proceed at this point? Can I just relist it and let someone else provide the third opinion?
- IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 23:28, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm thinking about monitoring several 3O discussion to see how they develop, with a view to perhaps becoming a 3O responder at some future point. Is there an instructions page or tutorial where I can read up on best practices for 3O responders? I'm thinking of something like the instructions for New Page Patrol reviewers, or the Articles for creation reviewing instructions. Anything like that exist here? It would be great to have a page summarizing the collective advice of regular 3O folks here distilled into a Project page about best practices in 3O, to encourage other editors who might want to volunteer to help out here. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 08:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Is it edit warring for a user in a 1v1 dispute to overturn and not abide by a provided third opinion? IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 04:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Since the editors are supposed to remove active disagreements before providing a third opinion, there is no indication how many disagreements have been handled and to a casual observer the project could appear inactive. Possibly it would help to provide some statistics (e.g., X requests for 3O, Y requests answered in the last 365 days) on the project page. Alaexis ¿question? 06:57, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Dispute Resolution ( inactive) | ||||
|
Instead list them in the Active Disagreements section of the main project page after reading the instructions at the top of that page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Third opinion page. |
|
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Can the following decline options be added to the templates (or maybe just {{ 3ORshort}}):
voorts ( talk/ contributions) 21:18, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
I was this many days old when I realized that the instructions for providing a 3O mention that when you remove it from the project page that your edit summary should name the dispute. I don't know that I've ever seen an editor say which dispute they were taking. Does that instruction still serve any meaningful purpose? Should we be chiding editors for taking disputes without saying which ones in the edit summary? DonIago ( talk) 17:46, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
Courtesy link: Draft:3O-notice
I've just been going through the instructions for adding a 3O request for the first time afaicr, and I just added one. Now, I'm at the step for notifying the other editor about the conversation. I assumed I'd find a template, something like {{ ANI-notice}}, {{ Tfd notice}}, {{ Proposed deletion notify}}, or {{ DRN-notice}}, but no luck. It would make everybody's life easier if we had a template that would deal with it.
I don't see a noticeboard for 3O, so what should we point the other user to? They already know the way to the discussion that got deadlocked, so is it a new 3O discussion at the same page? Or just a continuation of the existing one? I've taken a shot at a proposed new template at Draft:3O-notice, but I'm not sure I understand the process or what it should say exactly, so please suggest improvements to it, or just update it directly. In the meantime, I need to notify the other user about the listing I posted at 3O. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 04:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I think there are times when a ping would be unhelpful, but I think it's good general practice. Given how infrequently I see the current guidance followed, I'm doubtful we'll see overpinging as a major issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Firefangledfeathers ( talk • contribs) 03:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Hi USER, and thank you for seeking out a third opinion. I declined your recent request related to Talk:ARTICLE, as there has not yet been thorough discussion. Please engage the other involved editor at the talk page. If local consensus does not develop, and if no other editors get involved in the dispute, feel free to post again at WP:3O.
Wow, heh, I was surprised to see so many responses; this went off in an unexpected (to me) direction. If my question prompted some improvement to the instructions or process, then I am glad of it. Iiuc, this means the Draft template is a dead letter, and can be abandoned, as it is no longer the guidance to message the user at their UTP.
I'm a 3O newbie, but an experienced editor and template writer, so if this discussion finds a need for a template that would provide a decline reason (or an accept message, with what happens next) then I'm happy to create it/them. The reason I like templates is that it makes things faster and gives me some security of using approved messaging; i.e., it saves me a few moments of thinking or worrying about, for example, how to devise wording to decline gently and in a neutral manner and not have to worry about my wording, as the text has already been vetted at least by the local community. So, the template is kind of a security blanket and time-saver. I do a certain amount of warning users about potential vandalism with the escalating user warning message series {{ uw-v1}} (and -v2, -v3, and -v4) and I'm very glad I don't have to think of wording each time I do. That said, sometimes I skip the canned message because I feel that some user in a particular situation needs a more customized message, and then I do that; the uw-v1 to uw-v4 templates are an option, not a requirement, and if one wished to have templates here, I imagine the same thing would apply. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 19:12, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Courtesy link: Draft:3O-decline
In response to various suggestions in the discussion above, I've created template Draft:3O-decline. It is testable at sandboxes and at Special:ExpandTemplates, but not yet ready for use as it is not fully tested, and is not subst-protected (i.e., do not subst for now). Here's an example:
Sample use of
Draft:3O-decline
|
---|
Hello, Third opinion, and thank you for seeking out a third opinion. I'm Alaexis, and I wanted to let you know that your recent request for a third opinion related to Template talk:Protection table has been declined, because there are more than two editors involved. Yadda, yadda. Please engage the other involved editors at the article talk page. If local consensus does not develop, and if no other editors get involved in the dispute, ; other avenues of dispute resolution are also open to you. Thank you!
Hello, Third opinion, and thank you for seeking out a third opinion. I'm Alaexis, and I wanted to let you know that your recent request for a third opinion related to Talk:Miss_Porter's School#User:Megadesk edit warring has been declined, because there has not been enough discussion. What discussion there was, was behaviorally focused, instead of about the content. Please engage the other involved editor at the article talk page. If local consensus does not develop, and if no other editors get involved in the dispute, feel free to post again at WP:3O; other avenues of dispute resolution are also open to you. Thank you! |
Feel free to update it directly or request changes below or at its Talk page. Mathglot ( talk) 20:57, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Your entry should contain the following: ... a date, but no signature. You can add the date without your name by using five tildes (~~~~~). (Note: your name will still be shown in your contributions and the page edit history.)voorts ( talk/ contributions) 00:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Since we're already talking about templates, I might as well add a note about Template:Third opinion, as I just had my first experience with it. I actually did not realize a template was involved—it was just the following text:
So, I added a neutral summary in one sentence. Turns out, what was wanted, was not a neutral summary, but argumentation in support of my view of things, but I didn't know that. If it were up to me, I would change the template and swap out the words "summarize the dispute" for something like, "summarize your position on the dispute" instead. Mathglot ( talk) 03:02, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
summarize your position on the dispute. If I can't provide a 3O based on the discussion as-is, and require clarification, the clarification I'm usually looking for is a position on the dispute, since the dispute itself is usually clear. However, I disagree that there should be a formal or semiformal process. Editors should feel free to mediate disputes in ways that might not be reducible to a template. For example, in situations where multiple issues are disputed, it might be helpful to first get a neutral statement of what exactly is in dispute before getting views on those issues. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 03:56, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
I've responded to a third opinion request here [1] but I don't feel able to resolve it. How should I proceed at this point? Can I just relist it and let someone else provide the third opinion?
- IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 23:28, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm thinking about monitoring several 3O discussion to see how they develop, with a view to perhaps becoming a 3O responder at some future point. Is there an instructions page or tutorial where I can read up on best practices for 3O responders? I'm thinking of something like the instructions for New Page Patrol reviewers, or the Articles for creation reviewing instructions. Anything like that exist here? It would be great to have a page summarizing the collective advice of regular 3O folks here distilled into a Project page about best practices in 3O, to encourage other editors who might want to volunteer to help out here. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 08:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Is it edit warring for a user in a 1v1 dispute to overturn and not abide by a provided third opinion? IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 04:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
Since the editors are supposed to remove active disagreements before providing a third opinion, there is no indication how many disagreements have been handled and to a casual observer the project could appear inactive. Possibly it would help to provide some statistics (e.g., X requests for 3O, Y requests answered in the last 365 days) on the project page. Alaexis ¿question? 06:57, 18 April 2024 (UTC)