This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
The discussion page from WP:Help_Project/Overview redirects to this section so we don't have to hop about.
I don't know if I mentioned this elsewhere, but I started a subpage. I find the structure and navigating the help system quite a headache so am trying different ways of visualising it. I should probably be doing this sort of thing in my userspace, but if I put it here it may help the future if my head explodes! JoeSmack and rd232 (and others), I know you are both into this sort of thing as well,so please feel free to have a look/edit! Currently Wikipedia:Help_Project/Overview#Possible_Nav_Box is looking hopeful - I took help:contents main page, stripped the links down into sections, and have added a few directly related FAQs to order - it is currently in a left-hand info box style, which might work but the structure breakdown is the essential element (as it could be converted to a different format). Have a look, you'll get the idea... Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 00:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) I have played with the 'accessible nav box' on Wikipedia:Help_Project/Overview#Possible_Nav_Box, got extremely drastic which I like to do sometimes. There isn't an overwhelming amount of things to read now, which I feel is important. The result of whats left was determined by picturing I was very very new as well as:
I also removed links that seemed fairly redundant. The notable exception from all this was Wikipedia:Talk_page. I really really would like there to be a better intro to talk pages. Note, before the link was Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines, which was somehow even worse, making me both laugh and cry at the same time. What do ya'll think? JoeSmack Talk 03:08, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I have added Wikipedia:Help Project/Overview/Introductions and Help:Help onto the project page in a suggested structure for incorporating the new 'introduction to...' pages, I think it makes sense now. Maybe introductios could be incorporated into help but I think the trade off between extra clicks and simplicity is ok. Another thought is to have a review page listing basic facts that should have been picked up if all the intros had been read - for speed freaks and those wishing reassurance they got it all... Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 01:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I am coming to the conclusion we need a page that describes how to use help, Help:Help, this could describe the basic types of help pages that will be encountered, where to go for each detail level and how to use the pages, part of this ( or the next page ) should be an intro to intros page where we could explain things like what happens when you stray from the path. This might allow for my next idea.. Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC) ....Next idea. At the bottom of each intro page, we could include links to the next level of detail relevant to issues on that page. We should point out that they shouldn't be followed first time through and are there so a user who has completed the intro can come back at a future date - to familiar territory and gain more in-depth help. Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Help:Help Reclaimed! have written a draft using current best links - which we can update as better ones are found, its basic, but its basically there and can develop Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Much in the same light (well, i stole the code) of Help:Tutorial and WP:INTRO, here is Wikipedia:Help_Project/Introduction_to_talk_pages, basically a prettier tutorial for talk page use. The current ones suck, and suck hard. This is a draft, there's even a couple of jokes I put in, but really I want other people to poke and prod too. Make it more interesting, the layout look more appealing, whatever. Pretty please! JoeSmack Talk 07:13, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, how do we feel about Wikipedia:Help_Project/Introduction_to_talk_pages now? Does it feel pretty final draftish? JoeSmack Talk 20:30, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
JoeSmack, I went over it as you asked and I changed a few minor things, but I was wonder about:
Anyhow, great job!-- fetch comms ☛ 00:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
So I'm slowly getting family to comment on the guide this thanksgiving break, and the first was a classic Mom test (which SHOULD have an article, heh). She's 55 and hasn't edited more than a couple of pages (but uses a computer a lot), so she's a target demographic for the introductions. Some of her feedback included that she missed that there were multiple tabs/pages to the intro. She wanted a 'next' and 'previous' tab at the top and bottom so she wouldn't miss that there was more than one page. She wanted to 'close the guide at the thing that looked like code' (wikisyntax) - perhaps something at the start that said it WASN'T programming code she thought would help. She wanted the last tab changed to 'summary', which could be skipped to and stood alone. I'll bring it around to my aunts around to it next. Helpful? JoeSmack Talk 13:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Aunt's feedback - uses wikipedia, never edited, 'in my 50s', uses an iphone but didn't know how to use a trackpad on the laptop. Asked where the 'new section' tab was on the first section. Missed the next tab (then shown it), skipped the 'user talk page' section by accident. Understood layout, but wanted it to be said it wouldn't be like microsoft word (WYSIWIG). Liked the examples section ('ooh, thats nice to see'). At the last section wanted to know how to 'get out', looked for something that said 'done' or 'finished', ended up logging out of my wikipedia account. 'Now I can comment on XXXXX subject on Wikipedia, because i've always wanted to when i see bias on XXXXX'. JoeSmack Talk 14:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Sister-in-law, late 20s. 'I use wikipedia lots, i've never edited or seen a talk page' (also, 'whats a wikipedian?'). Thought the first paragraph of the first page 'didn't say a lot', skimmed the next paragraphs and forgot the info when asked about it later. Navigated just fine using the next links (no tab navigation even when it was closer; missed it). 'I liked seeing the examples', 'i understand colons and bullets', 'what happens after the conversation gets really skinny?', 'will i see the colons later?'. At the end said she would probably just close the page or navigate away. JoeSmack Talk 03:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Cousin, 15 years. 'I use wikipedia, but ive never seen a talk page'. Didn't have any trouble navigating, understood indenting and the purpose of a talk page. 'Felt like the right length.' JoeSmack Talk 17:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi ya'll. Before this idea slips out of my brain, what if we made a WP:simplified ruleset that looked like the talk page tutorial etc? I don't think it'd be too hard. JoeSmack Talk 00:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Also, just to put this out there, for explaining WP:IAR I would love a picture of cutting a corner in a grass field, kinda like this [1] but better. I remember this from college and I'd see it all the time - a well manicured grass field with a wiggly cement path through it, but a trodden stomped down grass trail cutting across it all in a pragmatic way. That is a perfect metaphor for IAR, and I'm wanting it for the guide. Anyone happen to be near one of these who could take a picture? (Does this make sense?). JoeSmack Talk 22:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Note: Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-12-07/Discussion_report#Policy_Report. JoeSmack Talk 06:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Help:Patrolled edit needs some significant copy-editing and clean-up. 67.101.6.31 ( talk) 12:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I think i've addressed the Thanksgiving feedback I got from non-editing user samples (my fam, awww). We can mess with a single page format later if we want to go down that path. I'm not sure about that nav box sitting down there, but as per the introduction itself i feel like it is out of alpha and into beta. JoeSmack Talk 22:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I hoped it would make sense :). You initially started this wanting a simple group of articles you could point new users to. The Overview/Introductions hopefully covers most of this now - just have to work the order of progression through them and if double check all basic topics have been covered. Looking at the 'Introduction to wikipedia' page I not that it needs work, e.g. the 2nd and 3rd pages are merely lists of links, the fourth is the tutorial. So we could convert the other basic help to fit into this framework, which would require :
That would be leave us with an intro system that fits together.. Have we missed any intro pages that couldn't be covered in 'about wikipedia' ? I can think of one are that's sorely missing 'introduction to wikipedia community' - bureacracy, what to do, projects, gnoming, where to find it etc.. Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
While not yet a topic for help pages, OpenID support at Wikipedia is a topic of accessibility, of making easier the process of registration and login.
A while ago, the WP:OpenID Proposal was made, but never really took off. I have expressed my feelings at User:B Fizz/OpenID and invite you to all to join with me in discussing the ups and downs of the proposal. ...but what do you think? ~ B F izz 10:23, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
hi. this is radheshyam gupta. actually i am not able to understand the meaning of radio. some times we say the am receiver a radio. i saw a number of cars in jaipur which are having a board written RADIO CAR. radio wave, radio transmitter radio receiver and so many words. if radio means transmission of any wave having frequency less than visible light frequency then what is the radio car, radio receiver? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radheyg ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
A few minutes ago, I tried to replace and incorrectly named image( File:P1010049.JPG) on an "Ido" Wikipeida article on Champaign, Illinois. The image I tried to replaced was of the File:Champaign, Illinois Municipal Building.jpg, and had originally shared it's name with the file above. Now when I tried to add the correct image, I created a redlink that I can't fix. Can somebody else fix this one instead? ---- DanTD ( talk) 02:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I've placed the following comment on Help talk:Editing. Please reply there.
This page is too large and poorly structured. It doesn't meet the needs of new users. The lead section is waffly and too detailed. The image doesn't add value; it increases the visual clutter. The material in the section entitled "More information on editing wiki pages" could be put into a navbox; anything that is important for new users to read should not be in this section. I think this page needs a total rethink and rewrite. Comments would be welcome. Rubywine . talk 15:42, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree with the previous comment. I am trying to find a way to discuss a topic in one of your wikipages and I do not seem to find any clear way to do so. I think I need more help... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.68.0.9 ( talk) 21:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
— Northamerica1000 (talk) 03:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
1, The place for this is while a visitor is using Help, 2, What is needed is a free-form space for visitors to enter whatever they want to enter, 3, There was no provision for me to contact Mr. Coombe. Honestly, if WikiMedia is paying qualtrics for this survey, it's money wasted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkFilipak ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
The order of sections 2 and 3 in the introduction seems wrong to me. Currently, section 2 is "Learn more about editing" and section 3 is "Explore Wikipedia". I'd say it would make more sense to invert this order. You want to know how to explore the Wikipedia before you think about editing it. Elendaíl ( talk) 14:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi everyone,
As you may be aware, the Wikimedia Foundation has been sponsoring a number of fellowships to work on projects aimed at improving editor retention and increasing participation across Wikimedia Projects. One recently proposed fellowship was a drive to improve help pages on the English Wikipedia. I'm sure as fellow members of the Help Project you realise how important this is. So I'm delighted to be able tell you that proposal was accepted, and that I'll be working in this role for the next 6 months.
The Help Project have been doing great work in this area, and I'm really looking forward to being able to devote more time to supporting this. My work is mainly in the research stage at the moment, but you can read a bit more about the plans for the fellowship at Wikipedia:Help pages redesign project. Your comments and ideas on the talk page would be very welcome. the wub "?!" 15:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
This proposal relates to copyrights. Feel free to discuss. -- George Ho ( talk) 17:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
There are currently a few help pages (such as Help:Searching) with links at the bottom for users to leave feedback. See Category:Wikipedia feedback pages for more examples. However these are rather scattered and hard to follow, and don't seem to attract many useful comments as it is. In addition the comments that are left indicate the interface may not be clear to users.
My plan is to create a new centralised feedback page, perhaps at Wikipedia:Help Project/Feedback, which would be easier for project members to keep track of. This would also provide important data to inform my fellowship work. In addition, I want to deploy a javascript gadget to make the feedback process much simpler for n00bs and readers - basically popping up a simple form instead of taking them to an edit page. The gadget proposal is here, comments from project members are welcome. the wub "?!" 21:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
There's a discussion taking place about the purpose of the Community portal, and the possibility of redesigning/revitalising it. Might be of interest to people here. the wub "?!" 21:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
as an example of how the learning-your-way-in process looks / has been looking in one (not-so-typical?) case? An example of the kind of context where the various Help facilities may get used?
Category:Wikipedia IPA is currently considered to be an administration category and most of the member articles are in Wikipedia namespace. These articles are actually of use to readers so they should all be moved into the Help namespace. and the category should be renamed to something like Category:IPA help. It should than be made a subcat of Category:Reader help. -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 10:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Re User:The wub/sandbox/1 (comments requested here): sorry, but I'm not really convinced that it's better than the existing design at Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines. Vertical tabs is a less familiar approach, and the whole design feels a bit old-fashioned and less clear. Rd232 talk 14:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
I personally think there are several new ideas in this design that are worth trying. Usability testing will decide it all. There is one sole thing I would suggest to improve: the links in the side tabs. Why black links? I can't emphasize this enough: on Wikipedia, links are blue. According to mw:Wikimedia Foundation Design/Color Usage that you aim to conform to, links are blue. There is no indication that this is an interactive tab. On hovering the tab, there is no change either. When hovering "Content policies" that looks like a H3 header, it becomes underlined like a H2 header. ;-) I'm pushing a little too far, it's only in order to clearly insist on something I believe to be important. Please don't take it personally, I think you've made a good design overall. Dodoïste ( talk) 21:19, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone. I've made a few tweaks today, one of which fixes the tabs so they remain in the same position from page to page. Also the change to use blue links is a good one that I agree with on further consideration. Making the tabs highlight on hover would be a simple one-rule addition to MediaWiki:Common.css, but unfortunately I can't figure out a way to make the whole tab clickable within the constraints of MediaWiki. the wub "?!" 16:54, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to the WMF developers, we now have the option of using version 5 of the Article Feedback Tool (AFT) to collect feedback on help pages too. By default it has been deployed to all pages in the Help: namespace. It can be disabled on any page by adding Category:Article Feedback Blacklist (I've already done this on Help:Searching as it was receiving way too many useless comments).
Since there are also many "Help" pages which are in Wikipedia: space, you can also apply the tool to them by adding Category:Article Feedback 5 Additional Articles. I'm planning to do a batch of these at the weekend, but if you're keen to start finding out what people think of a page feel free to add the category yourself.
Once a page has AFT applied, you can add feedback using the form which appears at the bottom of it. Feedback can be seen by clicking "View feedback" in the sidebar, or the "Feedback from my watched pages" link at the top of your watchlist. (Being able to filter the central feedback page by namespace has also been requested as a feature, but it may be some way off.) For more info on the tool generally see this FAQ. the wub "?!" 16:41, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
A new design has been proposed for Help:Contents. Please join the discussion at the talk page. the wub "?!" 11:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge#A quick link. Nathan2055 talk - contribs 23:31, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
If a search fails to find what the user is looking for, and the user accidentally lands on the Special:Search box page, he or she will see links below it. One of the links is called, "Help and Project pages". Clicking on any of the links does not display a convenient hierarchical list of items in that "category" (or more information) as most users would expect—it simply does nothing. This Special:Search page (which is almost completely blank) is a fabulous opportunity to entice the user to ask questions and explore, to invite the user to register and to learn more about Wikipedia and to choose somewhere to participate—but it simply does nothing except let the user retry a failed search. Google uses search results pages to "advertise" related stuff along the right-hand side of the page. Wikipedia could "advertise" the Help system, the Project pages, and offer the opportunity to learn more, but instead... all the user sees on the Special:Search page (or on the right of a search results page, for that matter) is a nearly blank page and/or links that don't work. (Unfortunately there is no History tab or PageView Stats link (that is usually under the History tab) on this page either—but surely the Special:Search page gets a lot of visits from lost users). LittleBen ( talk) 09:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I have rewritten Help:HTML in wikitext. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:48, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
I have rewritten Wikipedia:How to make a table in Wikipedia and proposed a merge to Help:Wikitable, which is next on my improvement list. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 11:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Who writes Wikipedia - Page requires apparently some repair.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Who_writes_Wikipedia
Currently this page starts with:
"Satyam Roychowdhury, Managing Director & Founder, Techno India Group...
... leading life that is based on deep-rooted moral values and is guided
by qualities like honesty and integrity."
This item obstructs the view of the text of:
Who Writes Wikipedia
The item should therefore, in my opinion, be moved to an appropriate location.
The information contained in the obstructing piece, should be retained, moved and further edited.
T2a (
talk) 16:12, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
I am proposing major changes to Help:Wiki markup. See Help talk:Wiki markup#Rework. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 13:06, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Help talk:Reset password
Help:Reset password is set up as a
reader help page. Since readers, who could be defined in part as those who do not log in, do not need to know about logging on to Wikipedia the page should be part of Wikipedia editor help instead. --
Alan Liefting (
talk -
contribs) 08:16, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Help:Wikitable is up for deletion. See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Help:Wikitable.
Help:Table/Introduction to tables was started as a copy from one of the other intros, but was never completed. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
After seeing so many complaints from Wikipedia Education Program editors that our "Help" stuff was all over the place (in that they have to go to page after page) - I have taken the time to update and consolidate {{ Help navigation}} to a one stop navigational tool with many of our main help type pages. I have also added the template to appropriate pages - in a few cases like here I posted a note to ask if others are ok with it and its placement on a particular page. Have gotten a few request like here - thus far all looks good. -- Moxy ( talk) 05:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
New portal redirect now seen on 500+ talk pages by way of the {{ Wikipedia Help Project}} template.-- Moxy ( talk) 11:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok I have taken the time to consolidate the templates on our main interactive user help pages. They all had multiple templates in them with different colors and were not uniformed in there presentation. Pls review make sure all is ok..spelling, layout etc... Now that I have completed the above mentioned changes I will be moving on to my next project I have lined up (build a disruptive index). Thank you all for the suggestions about Template:Help navigation - since its upgrade to a one stop help template now seen at the bottom of 250+ related pages - articles like Wikipedia:Plain and simple and Wikipedia:A Primer for newcomers have seen a huge upsurge in traffic -this is good. All the best my friends.-- Moxy ( talk) 21:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok I am done the descriptive index pls review the page for typos and missing info - see Wikipedia:Help index. pls add the page to your watch list ,,,,,, Moxy ( talk) 22:54, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
I am trying to improve the accessibility of the numerous WP pages. To this end I created this dab page but it was reverted and reestablished as a redir to Help:Files. I welcome any thoughts on it. -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 23:09, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
The contents of Category:Wikipedia how-to could do with a clean up. -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 22:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Moxy ( talk) 04:56, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Could we get a few eyes to look at Help talk:Outline of help resources#Requested move. Moxy ( talk) 18:22, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Finally read the whole Missing Manual and realized there needs to be an update to the page Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual/Appendixes/Learning More..... that still talks about the old Help:Contents page. I am simply inept at images and wondering if anyone here is willing to tackle this update with me. Moxy ( talk) 07:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I found Special:GettingStarted today - its this active (live). Moxy ( talk) 22:02, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I got invited to attend Open Help Conference in the US in June, and thought some people here might be interested in attending. The conference looks like an open format type event, focusing on open source help support and documentation. WMF has Participation Support Grants that could potentially support people's travel - might think about getting a Wikipedia team together from this project as well as Teahouse? Just a thought! Siko (WMF) ( talk) 18:50, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
There is going to be lots of work to do soon. To quote WhatamIdoing "Screenshots and instructions for basic editing will need to be completely updated. The old edit window is not going away, so help pages will likely need to cover both the old and the new." See Wikipedia:VisualEditor ( Wikipedia:VisualEditor/FAQ) for more info. Moxy ( talk) 15:03, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Help:Labeled section transclusion has been started. -- Gadget850 talk 17:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
As we are all fully aware we have many pages that overlap the same information. Thus I am creating this section to talk about some mergers....will start small and work our way up to big pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy ( talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Merge request - Wikipedia:Questions -> with Wikipedia:Requests - pls indicate the name in the end that is best for the title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy ( talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Merge request - Wikipedia:How to help -> with Wikipedia:New contributors' help page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy ( talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Add anything interesting, and worth looking at to potentially adapt ideas from, here:
I've been bold, and started a project collaboration to encourage focusing on particular tasks for a time. The first one is assessment of help pages, this will help us deciding where to prioritise work, and may also uncover pages which should perhaps be merged or deleted.
This will probably run for a couple of weeks, although it depends on how much progress is made. Suggestions for what to focus on next are welcome. My idea would be updating help pages to take account of the VisualEditor (in fact that was my original plan for the first one, but I decided to wait since the interface and setup continues to be in flux). the wub "?!" 04:44, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
I've just created Help:Screenshot as a very rough an ready dab page to Wikipedia:Software screenshots and Wikipedia:Screenshots of Wikipedia. It would seriously benefit from the attention of someone who knows how to write help pages better than me! Thryduulf ( talk) 18:52, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
The Global Education Program team at Wikimedia Foundation is currently working on a new version of the "Welcome to Wikipedia" print brochure, which is used for many in-person outreach events like edit-a-thons, as well as for education program courses. You can see the feedback we collected on the previous version, and now we have text for a draft rewrite ready for review and editing. Please take a look and leave comments and/or make edits, as this rewrite will probably be in print for several years (the previous version was developed three years ago, with only minor text updates for subsequent printings in the meantime) and it typically reaches a few thousand people per year in English (plus a lot more in translated versions, as an online PDF, and in local printings for specific events).-- Sage Ross (WMF) ( talk) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
The discussion page from WP:Help_Project/Overview redirects to this section so we don't have to hop about.
I don't know if I mentioned this elsewhere, but I started a subpage. I find the structure and navigating the help system quite a headache so am trying different ways of visualising it. I should probably be doing this sort of thing in my userspace, but if I put it here it may help the future if my head explodes! JoeSmack and rd232 (and others), I know you are both into this sort of thing as well,so please feel free to have a look/edit! Currently Wikipedia:Help_Project/Overview#Possible_Nav_Box is looking hopeful - I took help:contents main page, stripped the links down into sections, and have added a few directly related FAQs to order - it is currently in a left-hand info box style, which might work but the structure breakdown is the essential element (as it could be converted to a different format). Have a look, you'll get the idea... Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 00:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) I have played with the 'accessible nav box' on Wikipedia:Help_Project/Overview#Possible_Nav_Box, got extremely drastic which I like to do sometimes. There isn't an overwhelming amount of things to read now, which I feel is important. The result of whats left was determined by picturing I was very very new as well as:
I also removed links that seemed fairly redundant. The notable exception from all this was Wikipedia:Talk_page. I really really would like there to be a better intro to talk pages. Note, before the link was Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines, which was somehow even worse, making me both laugh and cry at the same time. What do ya'll think? JoeSmack Talk 03:08, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I have added Wikipedia:Help Project/Overview/Introductions and Help:Help onto the project page in a suggested structure for incorporating the new 'introduction to...' pages, I think it makes sense now. Maybe introductios could be incorporated into help but I think the trade off between extra clicks and simplicity is ok. Another thought is to have a review page listing basic facts that should have been picked up if all the intros had been read - for speed freaks and those wishing reassurance they got it all... Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 01:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I am coming to the conclusion we need a page that describes how to use help, Help:Help, this could describe the basic types of help pages that will be encountered, where to go for each detail level and how to use the pages, part of this ( or the next page ) should be an intro to intros page where we could explain things like what happens when you stray from the path. This might allow for my next idea.. Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC) ....Next idea. At the bottom of each intro page, we could include links to the next level of detail relevant to issues on that page. We should point out that they shouldn't be followed first time through and are there so a user who has completed the intro can come back at a future date - to familiar territory and gain more in-depth help. Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Help:Help Reclaimed! have written a draft using current best links - which we can update as better ones are found, its basic, but its basically there and can develop Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Much in the same light (well, i stole the code) of Help:Tutorial and WP:INTRO, here is Wikipedia:Help_Project/Introduction_to_talk_pages, basically a prettier tutorial for talk page use. The current ones suck, and suck hard. This is a draft, there's even a couple of jokes I put in, but really I want other people to poke and prod too. Make it more interesting, the layout look more appealing, whatever. Pretty please! JoeSmack Talk 07:13, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, how do we feel about Wikipedia:Help_Project/Introduction_to_talk_pages now? Does it feel pretty final draftish? JoeSmack Talk 20:30, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
JoeSmack, I went over it as you asked and I changed a few minor things, but I was wonder about:
Anyhow, great job!-- fetch comms ☛ 00:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
So I'm slowly getting family to comment on the guide this thanksgiving break, and the first was a classic Mom test (which SHOULD have an article, heh). She's 55 and hasn't edited more than a couple of pages (but uses a computer a lot), so she's a target demographic for the introductions. Some of her feedback included that she missed that there were multiple tabs/pages to the intro. She wanted a 'next' and 'previous' tab at the top and bottom so she wouldn't miss that there was more than one page. She wanted to 'close the guide at the thing that looked like code' (wikisyntax) - perhaps something at the start that said it WASN'T programming code she thought would help. She wanted the last tab changed to 'summary', which could be skipped to and stood alone. I'll bring it around to my aunts around to it next. Helpful? JoeSmack Talk 13:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Aunt's feedback - uses wikipedia, never edited, 'in my 50s', uses an iphone but didn't know how to use a trackpad on the laptop. Asked where the 'new section' tab was on the first section. Missed the next tab (then shown it), skipped the 'user talk page' section by accident. Understood layout, but wanted it to be said it wouldn't be like microsoft word (WYSIWIG). Liked the examples section ('ooh, thats nice to see'). At the last section wanted to know how to 'get out', looked for something that said 'done' or 'finished', ended up logging out of my wikipedia account. 'Now I can comment on XXXXX subject on Wikipedia, because i've always wanted to when i see bias on XXXXX'. JoeSmack Talk 14:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Sister-in-law, late 20s. 'I use wikipedia lots, i've never edited or seen a talk page' (also, 'whats a wikipedian?'). Thought the first paragraph of the first page 'didn't say a lot', skimmed the next paragraphs and forgot the info when asked about it later. Navigated just fine using the next links (no tab navigation even when it was closer; missed it). 'I liked seeing the examples', 'i understand colons and bullets', 'what happens after the conversation gets really skinny?', 'will i see the colons later?'. At the end said she would probably just close the page or navigate away. JoeSmack Talk 03:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Cousin, 15 years. 'I use wikipedia, but ive never seen a talk page'. Didn't have any trouble navigating, understood indenting and the purpose of a talk page. 'Felt like the right length.' JoeSmack Talk 17:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi ya'll. Before this idea slips out of my brain, what if we made a WP:simplified ruleset that looked like the talk page tutorial etc? I don't think it'd be too hard. JoeSmack Talk 00:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Also, just to put this out there, for explaining WP:IAR I would love a picture of cutting a corner in a grass field, kinda like this [1] but better. I remember this from college and I'd see it all the time - a well manicured grass field with a wiggly cement path through it, but a trodden stomped down grass trail cutting across it all in a pragmatic way. That is a perfect metaphor for IAR, and I'm wanting it for the guide. Anyone happen to be near one of these who could take a picture? (Does this make sense?). JoeSmack Talk 22:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Note: Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-12-07/Discussion_report#Policy_Report. JoeSmack Talk 06:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Help:Patrolled edit needs some significant copy-editing and clean-up. 67.101.6.31 ( talk) 12:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I think i've addressed the Thanksgiving feedback I got from non-editing user samples (my fam, awww). We can mess with a single page format later if we want to go down that path. I'm not sure about that nav box sitting down there, but as per the introduction itself i feel like it is out of alpha and into beta. JoeSmack Talk 22:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I hoped it would make sense :). You initially started this wanting a simple group of articles you could point new users to. The Overview/Introductions hopefully covers most of this now - just have to work the order of progression through them and if double check all basic topics have been covered. Looking at the 'Introduction to wikipedia' page I not that it needs work, e.g. the 2nd and 3rd pages are merely lists of links, the fourth is the tutorial. So we could convert the other basic help to fit into this framework, which would require :
That would be leave us with an intro system that fits together.. Have we missed any intro pages that couldn't be covered in 'about wikipedia' ? I can think of one are that's sorely missing 'introduction to wikipedia community' - bureacracy, what to do, projects, gnoming, where to find it etc.. Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 03:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
While not yet a topic for help pages, OpenID support at Wikipedia is a topic of accessibility, of making easier the process of registration and login.
A while ago, the WP:OpenID Proposal was made, but never really took off. I have expressed my feelings at User:B Fizz/OpenID and invite you to all to join with me in discussing the ups and downs of the proposal. ...but what do you think? ~ B F izz 10:23, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
hi. this is radheshyam gupta. actually i am not able to understand the meaning of radio. some times we say the am receiver a radio. i saw a number of cars in jaipur which are having a board written RADIO CAR. radio wave, radio transmitter radio receiver and so many words. if radio means transmission of any wave having frequency less than visible light frequency then what is the radio car, radio receiver? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radheyg ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
A few minutes ago, I tried to replace and incorrectly named image( File:P1010049.JPG) on an "Ido" Wikipeida article on Champaign, Illinois. The image I tried to replaced was of the File:Champaign, Illinois Municipal Building.jpg, and had originally shared it's name with the file above. Now when I tried to add the correct image, I created a redlink that I can't fix. Can somebody else fix this one instead? ---- DanTD ( talk) 02:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I've placed the following comment on Help talk:Editing. Please reply there.
This page is too large and poorly structured. It doesn't meet the needs of new users. The lead section is waffly and too detailed. The image doesn't add value; it increases the visual clutter. The material in the section entitled "More information on editing wiki pages" could be put into a navbox; anything that is important for new users to read should not be in this section. I think this page needs a total rethink and rewrite. Comments would be welcome. Rubywine . talk 15:42, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree with the previous comment. I am trying to find a way to discuss a topic in one of your wikipages and I do not seem to find any clear way to do so. I think I need more help... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.68.0.9 ( talk) 21:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
— Northamerica1000 (talk) 03:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
1, The place for this is while a visitor is using Help, 2, What is needed is a free-form space for visitors to enter whatever they want to enter, 3, There was no provision for me to contact Mr. Coombe. Honestly, if WikiMedia is paying qualtrics for this survey, it's money wasted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkFilipak ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
The order of sections 2 and 3 in the introduction seems wrong to me. Currently, section 2 is "Learn more about editing" and section 3 is "Explore Wikipedia". I'd say it would make more sense to invert this order. You want to know how to explore the Wikipedia before you think about editing it. Elendaíl ( talk) 14:00, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi everyone,
As you may be aware, the Wikimedia Foundation has been sponsoring a number of fellowships to work on projects aimed at improving editor retention and increasing participation across Wikimedia Projects. One recently proposed fellowship was a drive to improve help pages on the English Wikipedia. I'm sure as fellow members of the Help Project you realise how important this is. So I'm delighted to be able tell you that proposal was accepted, and that I'll be working in this role for the next 6 months.
The Help Project have been doing great work in this area, and I'm really looking forward to being able to devote more time to supporting this. My work is mainly in the research stage at the moment, but you can read a bit more about the plans for the fellowship at Wikipedia:Help pages redesign project. Your comments and ideas on the talk page would be very welcome. the wub "?!" 15:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
This proposal relates to copyrights. Feel free to discuss. -- George Ho ( talk) 17:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
There are currently a few help pages (such as Help:Searching) with links at the bottom for users to leave feedback. See Category:Wikipedia feedback pages for more examples. However these are rather scattered and hard to follow, and don't seem to attract many useful comments as it is. In addition the comments that are left indicate the interface may not be clear to users.
My plan is to create a new centralised feedback page, perhaps at Wikipedia:Help Project/Feedback, which would be easier for project members to keep track of. This would also provide important data to inform my fellowship work. In addition, I want to deploy a javascript gadget to make the feedback process much simpler for n00bs and readers - basically popping up a simple form instead of taking them to an edit page. The gadget proposal is here, comments from project members are welcome. the wub "?!" 21:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
There's a discussion taking place about the purpose of the Community portal, and the possibility of redesigning/revitalising it. Might be of interest to people here. the wub "?!" 21:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
as an example of how the learning-your-way-in process looks / has been looking in one (not-so-typical?) case? An example of the kind of context where the various Help facilities may get used?
Category:Wikipedia IPA is currently considered to be an administration category and most of the member articles are in Wikipedia namespace. These articles are actually of use to readers so they should all be moved into the Help namespace. and the category should be renamed to something like Category:IPA help. It should than be made a subcat of Category:Reader help. -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 10:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Re User:The wub/sandbox/1 (comments requested here): sorry, but I'm not really convinced that it's better than the existing design at Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines. Vertical tabs is a less familiar approach, and the whole design feels a bit old-fashioned and less clear. Rd232 talk 14:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
I personally think there are several new ideas in this design that are worth trying. Usability testing will decide it all. There is one sole thing I would suggest to improve: the links in the side tabs. Why black links? I can't emphasize this enough: on Wikipedia, links are blue. According to mw:Wikimedia Foundation Design/Color Usage that you aim to conform to, links are blue. There is no indication that this is an interactive tab. On hovering the tab, there is no change either. When hovering "Content policies" that looks like a H3 header, it becomes underlined like a H2 header. ;-) I'm pushing a little too far, it's only in order to clearly insist on something I believe to be important. Please don't take it personally, I think you've made a good design overall. Dodoïste ( talk) 21:19, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone. I've made a few tweaks today, one of which fixes the tabs so they remain in the same position from page to page. Also the change to use blue links is a good one that I agree with on further consideration. Making the tabs highlight on hover would be a simple one-rule addition to MediaWiki:Common.css, but unfortunately I can't figure out a way to make the whole tab clickable within the constraints of MediaWiki. the wub "?!" 16:54, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to the WMF developers, we now have the option of using version 5 of the Article Feedback Tool (AFT) to collect feedback on help pages too. By default it has been deployed to all pages in the Help: namespace. It can be disabled on any page by adding Category:Article Feedback Blacklist (I've already done this on Help:Searching as it was receiving way too many useless comments).
Since there are also many "Help" pages which are in Wikipedia: space, you can also apply the tool to them by adding Category:Article Feedback 5 Additional Articles. I'm planning to do a batch of these at the weekend, but if you're keen to start finding out what people think of a page feel free to add the category yourself.
Once a page has AFT applied, you can add feedback using the form which appears at the bottom of it. Feedback can be seen by clicking "View feedback" in the sidebar, or the "Feedback from my watched pages" link at the top of your watchlist. (Being able to filter the central feedback page by namespace has also been requested as a feature, but it may be some way off.) For more info on the tool generally see this FAQ. the wub "?!" 16:41, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
A new design has been proposed for Help:Contents. Please join the discussion at the talk page. the wub "?!" 11:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge#A quick link. Nathan2055 talk - contribs 23:31, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
If a search fails to find what the user is looking for, and the user accidentally lands on the Special:Search box page, he or she will see links below it. One of the links is called, "Help and Project pages". Clicking on any of the links does not display a convenient hierarchical list of items in that "category" (or more information) as most users would expect—it simply does nothing. This Special:Search page (which is almost completely blank) is a fabulous opportunity to entice the user to ask questions and explore, to invite the user to register and to learn more about Wikipedia and to choose somewhere to participate—but it simply does nothing except let the user retry a failed search. Google uses search results pages to "advertise" related stuff along the right-hand side of the page. Wikipedia could "advertise" the Help system, the Project pages, and offer the opportunity to learn more, but instead... all the user sees on the Special:Search page (or on the right of a search results page, for that matter) is a nearly blank page and/or links that don't work. (Unfortunately there is no History tab or PageView Stats link (that is usually under the History tab) on this page either—but surely the Special:Search page gets a lot of visits from lost users). LittleBen ( talk) 09:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I have rewritten Help:HTML in wikitext. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:48, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
I have rewritten Wikipedia:How to make a table in Wikipedia and proposed a merge to Help:Wikitable, which is next on my improvement list. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 11:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Who writes Wikipedia - Page requires apparently some repair.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Who_writes_Wikipedia
Currently this page starts with:
"Satyam Roychowdhury, Managing Director & Founder, Techno India Group...
... leading life that is based on deep-rooted moral values and is guided
by qualities like honesty and integrity."
This item obstructs the view of the text of:
Who Writes Wikipedia
The item should therefore, in my opinion, be moved to an appropriate location.
The information contained in the obstructing piece, should be retained, moved and further edited.
T2a (
talk) 16:12, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
I am proposing major changes to Help:Wiki markup. See Help talk:Wiki markup#Rework. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 13:06, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Help talk:Reset password
Help:Reset password is set up as a
reader help page. Since readers, who could be defined in part as those who do not log in, do not need to know about logging on to Wikipedia the page should be part of Wikipedia editor help instead. --
Alan Liefting (
talk -
contribs) 08:16, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Help:Wikitable is up for deletion. See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Help:Wikitable.
Help:Table/Introduction to tables was started as a copy from one of the other intros, but was never completed. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
After seeing so many complaints from Wikipedia Education Program editors that our "Help" stuff was all over the place (in that they have to go to page after page) - I have taken the time to update and consolidate {{ Help navigation}} to a one stop navigational tool with many of our main help type pages. I have also added the template to appropriate pages - in a few cases like here I posted a note to ask if others are ok with it and its placement on a particular page. Have gotten a few request like here - thus far all looks good. -- Moxy ( talk) 05:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
New portal redirect now seen on 500+ talk pages by way of the {{ Wikipedia Help Project}} template.-- Moxy ( talk) 11:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok I have taken the time to consolidate the templates on our main interactive user help pages. They all had multiple templates in them with different colors and were not uniformed in there presentation. Pls review make sure all is ok..spelling, layout etc... Now that I have completed the above mentioned changes I will be moving on to my next project I have lined up (build a disruptive index). Thank you all for the suggestions about Template:Help navigation - since its upgrade to a one stop help template now seen at the bottom of 250+ related pages - articles like Wikipedia:Plain and simple and Wikipedia:A Primer for newcomers have seen a huge upsurge in traffic -this is good. All the best my friends.-- Moxy ( talk) 21:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok I am done the descriptive index pls review the page for typos and missing info - see Wikipedia:Help index. pls add the page to your watch list ,,,,,, Moxy ( talk) 22:54, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
I am trying to improve the accessibility of the numerous WP pages. To this end I created this dab page but it was reverted and reestablished as a redir to Help:Files. I welcome any thoughts on it. -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 23:09, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
The contents of Category:Wikipedia how-to could do with a clean up. -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 22:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Moxy ( talk) 04:56, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Could we get a few eyes to look at Help talk:Outline of help resources#Requested move. Moxy ( talk) 18:22, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Finally read the whole Missing Manual and realized there needs to be an update to the page Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual/Appendixes/Learning More..... that still talks about the old Help:Contents page. I am simply inept at images and wondering if anyone here is willing to tackle this update with me. Moxy ( talk) 07:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I found Special:GettingStarted today - its this active (live). Moxy ( talk) 22:02, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I got invited to attend Open Help Conference in the US in June, and thought some people here might be interested in attending. The conference looks like an open format type event, focusing on open source help support and documentation. WMF has Participation Support Grants that could potentially support people's travel - might think about getting a Wikipedia team together from this project as well as Teahouse? Just a thought! Siko (WMF) ( talk) 18:50, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
There is going to be lots of work to do soon. To quote WhatamIdoing "Screenshots and instructions for basic editing will need to be completely updated. The old edit window is not going away, so help pages will likely need to cover both the old and the new." See Wikipedia:VisualEditor ( Wikipedia:VisualEditor/FAQ) for more info. Moxy ( talk) 15:03, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Help:Labeled section transclusion has been started. -- Gadget850 talk 17:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
As we are all fully aware we have many pages that overlap the same information. Thus I am creating this section to talk about some mergers....will start small and work our way up to big pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy ( talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Merge request - Wikipedia:Questions -> with Wikipedia:Requests - pls indicate the name in the end that is best for the title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy ( talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Merge request - Wikipedia:How to help -> with Wikipedia:New contributors' help page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy ( talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Add anything interesting, and worth looking at to potentially adapt ideas from, here:
I've been bold, and started a project collaboration to encourage focusing on particular tasks for a time. The first one is assessment of help pages, this will help us deciding where to prioritise work, and may also uncover pages which should perhaps be merged or deleted.
This will probably run for a couple of weeks, although it depends on how much progress is made. Suggestions for what to focus on next are welcome. My idea would be updating help pages to take account of the VisualEditor (in fact that was my original plan for the first one, but I decided to wait since the interface and setup continues to be in flux). the wub "?!" 04:44, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
I've just created Help:Screenshot as a very rough an ready dab page to Wikipedia:Software screenshots and Wikipedia:Screenshots of Wikipedia. It would seriously benefit from the attention of someone who knows how to write help pages better than me! Thryduulf ( talk) 18:52, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
The Global Education Program team at Wikimedia Foundation is currently working on a new version of the "Welcome to Wikipedia" print brochure, which is used for many in-person outreach events like edit-a-thons, as well as for education program courses. You can see the feedback we collected on the previous version, and now we have text for a draft rewrite ready for review and editing. Please take a look and leave comments and/or make edits, as this rewrite will probably be in print for several years (the previous version was developed three years ago, with only minor text updates for subsequent printings in the meantime) and it typically reaches a few thousand people per year in English (plus a lot more in translated versions, as an online PDF, and in local printings for specific events).-- Sage Ross (WMF) ( talk) 15:08, 22 October 2013 (UTC)