This is the discussion archives 5 of WP:Rail from August generally (one June) to September 2007.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
ray me far so la te do... ahem...
Do you think this project needs a to-do list? Simply south 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Birmingham and Derby Junction Railway is in need of a route-map, if anyone feels inclined. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Pages with lists of coordinates, marked-up using {{ coord}}, can now be exported as KML (for use in Google Earth or NASA World Wind, for example) via Brian Suda's site, in this format:
The same URL can be pasted into Google Maps as a search string, and will show the locations, as push-pins on a map
(I requested a template which will generate such links, for any page on which it appears. The template {{ kml}} was created - and promptly nominated for deletion!) Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
What is a tripcock braking system? Simply south 09:19, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
|It might be but personally I'd expand the trainstop article . Although the trainstop system was expanded to dead end tracks after Moorgate they had been fitted to stop signals for some time. Other precautions adopted after Moorgate were the fitting of more sand drags and steel cages at dead end lines. A temporary measure until the work could be done involved bringing trains to a halt at the outer home signal in the approach to a terminal station, then allowing them to enter the platform from a standing start so that the speed of the train into the platform could be regulated.
Britmax
19:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that a Wikiproject UK Trams might be in order at the present time. There are already several Wikiprojects that cover trams, but all seem to be rather blank in the UK area. There are hardly any articles on trams, and those that there are, are either stubs, lacking factual references, or are complete so that they only need to be edited to add specialist information. I have almost single-handedly revamped the National Tramway Museum Page, and it would be hard to believe that a couple of months ago, it was a stub. Please rally your support or opposal here. The project would cover all trams, both modern and heritage, proposed and forgotten, built and demolished. The page will be started in due course here. - Bluegoblin7 14:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at this? Much of it is inaccurate, and none of it reads like something out of an encyclopaedia. It also seems to concentrate on the current state of affairs, with a little reference to the future, and looks to me as though it could never be more than a "spotter's guide". I invite anyone to fix it up if they feel they can get it beyond a "Know Your Livery" state. 90.203.45.143 19:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I've put up a number of UK transport-related stub types for renaming, rescoping and/or deletion; a number of ad hoc renamings and creations have left this hierarchy in a very inconsistent state, please comment, and help resolve, one way or the other. See Stub types for deletion/Log/2007/August/20. Alai 22:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
May I ask how this relates to WP:UK Railways? It seems to stand for WP:UK Trains, which isnt this wikiproject, and the shortcut would be more suited to the newly created WP:UK Trams from now on.
If no-one objects I will change the shortcut, or will make it into a disambiguaton page if there are minor objections. Bluegoblin 7 11:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
(reindent) How about WP:UKRWP or WP:TWPUK? Even though we have hardly any dealings with them, we are technically a subproject of WP:TWP — iridescent (talk to me!) 14:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm not a member of this project but I've noticed that there are articles for a couple of stations - Skipton railway station and Gargrave railway station. There doesn't seem to be anything noteworthy to these articles and I was just wondering if anyone thinks they should be there? To me they don't seem to satisfy WP:NOTE. Thanks -- JD554 15:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
A problem that has been nagging me for a while is i can't find a definitive (lol) list of what colours are meant to be used for each TOC, old train co's, open access operators, heritage lines, etc (ie via "rail line", "s-rail" and other templates). with the arrival of several new operators latter this autumn, I've attempted to catalogue what we've got so we can decide a) if any are too similar, b) what ones to give to new operators, c) what free ones are left for the future, etc
NB – secondary / on top colours used around Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Leeds (WYPTE)
any additions to the above would be welcome (i've left out Northern Ireland and Ireland for now), and when we're done i'll copy this grand list over to Template talk:Rail line where a vauge list already exists. thanks in advance Pickle 07:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it matters if the colours are duplicated; as color-coding is used for several different purposes. To take just {WPTIS}: For historical (pre-grouping) companies, colours were chosen for the Caledonian, the G&SWR, the North British, etc, and these are used on route maps and on stations, particularly before & after station info-boxes. For joint lines, the colours were added together. Another set of colours were chosen for the marketing line-labels, e.g. Inverclyde line, Ayrcoast line, etc, and these are used at major stations; and at minor stations with the before & after station info boxes. Yet another set of colours in used for TOC's; but we don't have TOC's on historical route maps; or at minor stations. Again, from a route map point of view, it does not matter if, say Scotland, Greater Manchester, Centro, etc, use the same, or different colours; as these systems are not necessarily connected. I agree that it makes sense for common colours for the big four - LMS, GWR, LNER, SR as these covered wide geographic regions; and for TOCs covering wide geographical areas. But, does it mater (to take a made up example) if a line on the Isle of Wight, a line in Manchester, a line in Aberdeen and a regional TOC that does not visit these areas have the same colour? Pyrotec 16:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know of a guide to writing route maps? I want to learn how to do it and start off with the Lambourn Valley Railway which should be a very simple one to learn on.
Also, I've got three disused station articles to consider, one for between Reading and Taunton on the Reading to Plymouth Line, one for the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway and another for the LVR. Is there any advice for writing such articles? Grizzlyqi 17:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I have now produced my first route map. Would anyone care to take a look and give advice/edit for improvements (which will I will take a close look at to learn from). The article. Grizzlyqi 17:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Another question for you fine folks (its been one of those weeks!). On the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway what infoboxes should we be using for the stations. Technically the current usage of {{tl:Infobox UK station}} is wrong as it cites National rail in the standard display. Do we have either a) some sort of heritage rail station infobox for heritage and other type stations (like the RHDR) or b) can we have some sort of switch statement that "turns off" the national rail link. ??? Pickle 04:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I have put this up for WP:RM but with moveoptions. See Talk:London railway station#2007 requested move. Simply south 10:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
On maps I would like the opinion of this project on weather they should be included on templates. My opinion is only the name of the station or tunnel or junction should and no distance or historic information etc should be included either. Also when talking about distance of tracks and distance of stations form a main terminus shouldn't it primarily be in the metric system as the UK officially uses the metric system and all other train articles (bar USA) are in the metric system. many thanks-- Lucy-marie 16:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Surely giving a POV in a discussion is where I am meant to give the POV and placing a POV through an article such say this is the most fantastic thing on the plant. That is frowned upon and not the above comments. Any way the uk is officially a metric country it did so when it joined up to the EU. road signs are a tiny exception to the rule. originally the rails roads and all forms of transport would have been based on the imperial system but things have moved on and the rail industry uses metric if you talk to people working in the industry such as track laying and so on because all of the trades associated have gone metric. I know my father is an electrician and my grandfather a glass fitter and general contractor. The only reason metric is not used exclusively is because of cost (which in my opinion is a smokescreen for people hanging on to a dying thing just like the pound. But that is just my opinion). So I say to avoid all possible conflict on templates at least lest have no distances. I also thin that metric should come first when quoting distances but this will probably be contentious.-- Lucy-marie 16:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
See wiki bold for the original edits it is perfectly fine, what I did. I shall order a shot and receive a 35ml shot pubs do sale in metric. Also I can order a glass of beer and shall receive 568ml which is what they have done in Ireland. The Uk is a metric country weather you like or not officially only three countries aren't and the are the USA Burma and Liberia. see [ |metric system] -- Lucy-marie 17:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Just because you dislike someone's opinions and they stick to their ground and stand up to you does not make them wrong a user with a differing opinion has a s much right as you do to express their opinion and no single or group of editors owns any articles, also no single editor has the right to say what is and isn't vandalism that is clearly set out in policy. -- Jjamesj 18:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
This is why there is a call for no distances to be mentioned on templates so that no arguments and confusion can be caused as different parts of the same system use different units, there is also a misquotation of the user, the user stated the UK "officially" became metric which is true as it was written in to the treaty. The phrase "There is not now and never will be any requirement to drop imperial measurements" is a misrepresentation of the article it does state dates which were imposed for Britain to go metric, so at some point Britain was legally obliged to go metric. The threats made by other users such as blocks and that she is being disruptive are unwelcome as they them selves could be done under point by victimising this user.-- Jjamesj 18:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Looking at templates after raising a question on freight and disused lines, I have realised that no two templates are the same in the layout. I know this doesn't seem to make sense at the moment but I am talking about templates showing the names of different lines and also their grouping. One splits the passenger\mixed lines into effectively primary, secondary and tertiary. The rest are split into simply Intercity main line, main line, commuter line and rural line, although one of these templates also includes freight and disused lines, and heritage lines.
(please note, do not add tl as i am trying to illustrate this literally, intead of going to every single template.)
Simply south 21:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I do like "Branch", but with certain caveats (it must be a "named" branch line). Okay, here are some lists:
InterCity Lines - I like this, but now that this "brand" has been lost, perhaps it ought not be used.
Main Lines - OMDB (Over My Dead Body) - I totally hate this name, it is much too ambiguous.
Commuter Lines - OK, but solely for London/SE
Rural Lines - WTF (What the F***) is a "rural" line ... I really, really, hate this.
Primary Lines (or Routes) - Personal favourite, but I know others are cool.
Secondary Lines (or Routes) - I also like this, but I know it has little support.
Branch Lines - Supported
Freight Only/Disused Lines - Supported
Heritage Lines - Supported
I will keep thinking about this, as I think there is a strong consensus that we need to resolve this issue ASAP, so that we can move on to other project matters.
Canterberry
00:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
This has been listed above as an important article. Does this mean junctions with no station, or just junctions (Named places where lines meet? Britmax 21:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
This is the discussion archives 5 of WP:Rail from August generally (one June) to September 2007.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
ray me far so la te do... ahem...
Do you think this project needs a to-do list? Simply south 13:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Birmingham and Derby Junction Railway is in need of a route-map, if anyone feels inclined. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Pages with lists of coordinates, marked-up using {{ coord}}, can now be exported as KML (for use in Google Earth or NASA World Wind, for example) via Brian Suda's site, in this format:
The same URL can be pasted into Google Maps as a search string, and will show the locations, as push-pins on a map
(I requested a template which will generate such links, for any page on which it appears. The template {{ kml}} was created - and promptly nominated for deletion!) Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
What is a tripcock braking system? Simply south 09:19, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
|It might be but personally I'd expand the trainstop article . Although the trainstop system was expanded to dead end tracks after Moorgate they had been fitted to stop signals for some time. Other precautions adopted after Moorgate were the fitting of more sand drags and steel cages at dead end lines. A temporary measure until the work could be done involved bringing trains to a halt at the outer home signal in the approach to a terminal station, then allowing them to enter the platform from a standing start so that the speed of the train into the platform could be regulated.
Britmax
19:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that a Wikiproject UK Trams might be in order at the present time. There are already several Wikiprojects that cover trams, but all seem to be rather blank in the UK area. There are hardly any articles on trams, and those that there are, are either stubs, lacking factual references, or are complete so that they only need to be edited to add specialist information. I have almost single-handedly revamped the National Tramway Museum Page, and it would be hard to believe that a couple of months ago, it was a stub. Please rally your support or opposal here. The project would cover all trams, both modern and heritage, proposed and forgotten, built and demolished. The page will be started in due course here. - Bluegoblin7 14:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at this? Much of it is inaccurate, and none of it reads like something out of an encyclopaedia. It also seems to concentrate on the current state of affairs, with a little reference to the future, and looks to me as though it could never be more than a "spotter's guide". I invite anyone to fix it up if they feel they can get it beyond a "Know Your Livery" state. 90.203.45.143 19:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I've put up a number of UK transport-related stub types for renaming, rescoping and/or deletion; a number of ad hoc renamings and creations have left this hierarchy in a very inconsistent state, please comment, and help resolve, one way or the other. See Stub types for deletion/Log/2007/August/20. Alai 22:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
May I ask how this relates to WP:UK Railways? It seems to stand for WP:UK Trains, which isnt this wikiproject, and the shortcut would be more suited to the newly created WP:UK Trams from now on.
If no-one objects I will change the shortcut, or will make it into a disambiguaton page if there are minor objections. Bluegoblin 7 11:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
(reindent) How about WP:UKRWP or WP:TWPUK? Even though we have hardly any dealings with them, we are technically a subproject of WP:TWP — iridescent (talk to me!) 14:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm not a member of this project but I've noticed that there are articles for a couple of stations - Skipton railway station and Gargrave railway station. There doesn't seem to be anything noteworthy to these articles and I was just wondering if anyone thinks they should be there? To me they don't seem to satisfy WP:NOTE. Thanks -- JD554 15:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
A problem that has been nagging me for a while is i can't find a definitive (lol) list of what colours are meant to be used for each TOC, old train co's, open access operators, heritage lines, etc (ie via "rail line", "s-rail" and other templates). with the arrival of several new operators latter this autumn, I've attempted to catalogue what we've got so we can decide a) if any are too similar, b) what ones to give to new operators, c) what free ones are left for the future, etc
NB – secondary / on top colours used around Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Leeds (WYPTE)
any additions to the above would be welcome (i've left out Northern Ireland and Ireland for now), and when we're done i'll copy this grand list over to Template talk:Rail line where a vauge list already exists. thanks in advance Pickle 07:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it matters if the colours are duplicated; as color-coding is used for several different purposes. To take just {WPTIS}: For historical (pre-grouping) companies, colours were chosen for the Caledonian, the G&SWR, the North British, etc, and these are used on route maps and on stations, particularly before & after station info-boxes. For joint lines, the colours were added together. Another set of colours were chosen for the marketing line-labels, e.g. Inverclyde line, Ayrcoast line, etc, and these are used at major stations; and at minor stations with the before & after station info boxes. Yet another set of colours in used for TOC's; but we don't have TOC's on historical route maps; or at minor stations. Again, from a route map point of view, it does not matter if, say Scotland, Greater Manchester, Centro, etc, use the same, or different colours; as these systems are not necessarily connected. I agree that it makes sense for common colours for the big four - LMS, GWR, LNER, SR as these covered wide geographic regions; and for TOCs covering wide geographical areas. But, does it mater (to take a made up example) if a line on the Isle of Wight, a line in Manchester, a line in Aberdeen and a regional TOC that does not visit these areas have the same colour? Pyrotec 16:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know of a guide to writing route maps? I want to learn how to do it and start off with the Lambourn Valley Railway which should be a very simple one to learn on.
Also, I've got three disused station articles to consider, one for between Reading and Taunton on the Reading to Plymouth Line, one for the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway and another for the LVR. Is there any advice for writing such articles? Grizzlyqi 17:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I have now produced my first route map. Would anyone care to take a look and give advice/edit for improvements (which will I will take a close look at to learn from). The article. Grizzlyqi 17:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Another question for you fine folks (its been one of those weeks!). On the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway what infoboxes should we be using for the stations. Technically the current usage of {{tl:Infobox UK station}} is wrong as it cites National rail in the standard display. Do we have either a) some sort of heritage rail station infobox for heritage and other type stations (like the RHDR) or b) can we have some sort of switch statement that "turns off" the national rail link. ??? Pickle 04:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I have put this up for WP:RM but with moveoptions. See Talk:London railway station#2007 requested move. Simply south 10:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
On maps I would like the opinion of this project on weather they should be included on templates. My opinion is only the name of the station or tunnel or junction should and no distance or historic information etc should be included either. Also when talking about distance of tracks and distance of stations form a main terminus shouldn't it primarily be in the metric system as the UK officially uses the metric system and all other train articles (bar USA) are in the metric system. many thanks-- Lucy-marie 16:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Surely giving a POV in a discussion is where I am meant to give the POV and placing a POV through an article such say this is the most fantastic thing on the plant. That is frowned upon and not the above comments. Any way the uk is officially a metric country it did so when it joined up to the EU. road signs are a tiny exception to the rule. originally the rails roads and all forms of transport would have been based on the imperial system but things have moved on and the rail industry uses metric if you talk to people working in the industry such as track laying and so on because all of the trades associated have gone metric. I know my father is an electrician and my grandfather a glass fitter and general contractor. The only reason metric is not used exclusively is because of cost (which in my opinion is a smokescreen for people hanging on to a dying thing just like the pound. But that is just my opinion). So I say to avoid all possible conflict on templates at least lest have no distances. I also thin that metric should come first when quoting distances but this will probably be contentious.-- Lucy-marie 16:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
See wiki bold for the original edits it is perfectly fine, what I did. I shall order a shot and receive a 35ml shot pubs do sale in metric. Also I can order a glass of beer and shall receive 568ml which is what they have done in Ireland. The Uk is a metric country weather you like or not officially only three countries aren't and the are the USA Burma and Liberia. see [ |metric system] -- Lucy-marie 17:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Just because you dislike someone's opinions and they stick to their ground and stand up to you does not make them wrong a user with a differing opinion has a s much right as you do to express their opinion and no single or group of editors owns any articles, also no single editor has the right to say what is and isn't vandalism that is clearly set out in policy. -- Jjamesj 18:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
This is why there is a call for no distances to be mentioned on templates so that no arguments and confusion can be caused as different parts of the same system use different units, there is also a misquotation of the user, the user stated the UK "officially" became metric which is true as it was written in to the treaty. The phrase "There is not now and never will be any requirement to drop imperial measurements" is a misrepresentation of the article it does state dates which were imposed for Britain to go metric, so at some point Britain was legally obliged to go metric. The threats made by other users such as blocks and that she is being disruptive are unwelcome as they them selves could be done under point by victimising this user.-- Jjamesj 18:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Looking at templates after raising a question on freight and disused lines, I have realised that no two templates are the same in the layout. I know this doesn't seem to make sense at the moment but I am talking about templates showing the names of different lines and also their grouping. One splits the passenger\mixed lines into effectively primary, secondary and tertiary. The rest are split into simply Intercity main line, main line, commuter line and rural line, although one of these templates also includes freight and disused lines, and heritage lines.
(please note, do not add tl as i am trying to illustrate this literally, intead of going to every single template.)
Simply south 21:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I do like "Branch", but with certain caveats (it must be a "named" branch line). Okay, here are some lists:
InterCity Lines - I like this, but now that this "brand" has been lost, perhaps it ought not be used.
Main Lines - OMDB (Over My Dead Body) - I totally hate this name, it is much too ambiguous.
Commuter Lines - OK, but solely for London/SE
Rural Lines - WTF (What the F***) is a "rural" line ... I really, really, hate this.
Primary Lines (or Routes) - Personal favourite, but I know others are cool.
Secondary Lines (or Routes) - I also like this, but I know it has little support.
Branch Lines - Supported
Freight Only/Disused Lines - Supported
Heritage Lines - Supported
I will keep thinking about this, as I think there is a strong consensus that we need to resolve this issue ASAP, so that we can move on to other project matters.
Canterberry
00:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
This has been listed above as an important article. Does this mean junctions with no station, or just junctions (Named places where lines meet? Britmax 21:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)