![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
An IP editor made two changes to Tokyo Metro Yurakucho Line ( [1] and [2]), and another editor reverted them using VandalProof. They don't appear to have been vandalism, but they need clarification. Has anyone been following the introduction of 6000 series equipment to the Fukutoshin Line? If so, you might be able to help. Fg2 11:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm just beginning to get involved in trains right now, and more often tend to work on a great variety of other subjects (samurai battles, kabuki, ukiyo-e...). You guys are doing an amazing job of covering all the modern, contemporary stations and lines. Out of curiosity, however, are any of you here interested in, or contributing to, articles on Meiji-period trains, railroads in the colonies, or other historical subjects? LordAmeth 12:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I've posted the above move request, and I was hoping to get some feedback. I think the current name is a definite no-no - article name should be in English, and "Josei Sen'yō Sharyō" isn't notable enough to be an exception. Now, I'm not entirely sure if the name I'm proposing is the best one - it's neither Japan- nor rail-specific. Any ideas? Thanks. -- Ytny ( talk) 06:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
There are two stations named Nakatsu in Osaka, Osaka Prefecture, Japan. I hope this article will be splitted into two articles entitled Nakatsu Station (Hankyu) and Nakatsu Station (Osaka Municipal Subway) because two stations are not connected. Tigers boy 12:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Tōzai Line (JR West) → JR Tōzai Line
This one's a little complicated, since it goes against the current "JR by default" article naming convention, but the official name of the line should supersede the Wikipedia rule.
Please feel free to have your say at Talk:Tōzai Line (JR West) Ytny ( talk) 01:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed that there does not seem to be a good overview of rail transportation (or transportation in general) for Ōsaka and Kansai. Osaka#Transport is very short, Kansai#Transport does not exist, and Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto#Transportation is entirely in list form. This does not compare well with Transportation in Greater Tokyo, for example. I do not have too much to say about transportation in Kansai myself, but I hope someone could incorporate some of the maps that are available (such as Image:Wide-Area_Map_of_Osaka_City_Subway.png, Image:JR_West_Urban_Network.png, Image:Wide_Area_Map_of_Kintetsu.png, Image:Hankyu_map.svg) with some relevant text. I think that the maps, with other images like Image:WestJapanRailwayCompanyType223-1.JPG for context, could give a very good introduction to the subject without too much creativity needed in the text. I just uploaded Image:JR_West_Urban_Network.png (mentioned above), which I hope is useful for this...
Esetzer 12:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I've listed a batch of subway line categories for deletion (or merge) at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 2#Tokyosubway. The reason is that these categories only contain main subway line articles and station subcategories. We're not going to have any more articles about Ginza Line to place in Category:Tokyo Metro Ginza Line, and there already is a Category:Stations of Tokyo Metro Ginza Line, adding an extra step in navigation. Ytny ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The CfD is now closed; and we need to do the Upmerge. Most stations appear to use Template:Ja-linecat for the Stations of _______ Line Category. Should we modify this template, or manually replace each category in each article?-- Endroit 19:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Is there something special about 3/18 ? Several train-related things happened today, spread around the country ( station and renaming in Hyōgo; new line in Sendai; PASMO becomes operational in Tokyo). I couldn't think of a pronunciation which was meaningful (ala the popular marriage day "ii fūfu" on 11/22). Is JR just trying to compact all the ダイヤ confusion into one day? Neier 04:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I spotted one item in need of correction and one clarification needed for this page.
"Adjacent Stations" on subway #3 line: Kishinekoen station is incorrect; should be Mitsuzawa-shimocho.
References to the "Sagami line" should point out that on most maps and signage (including everywhere in Yokohama staion, as far as I've seen), this line is referred to as "Sotetsu line". In my opinion it might be more useful to refer to it generally as Sotetsu (having once pointed out the offical Sagami name). 124.144.252.123 13:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed there's a lot of variety on how tables for platforms and adjacent stations are set up. I thought we might discuss how we might be able to standardize their appearance.
When it comes to platforms, the two best systems seem to be the Tokyo Station layout and the Kyoto Station style. The Tokyo layout seems to have a simpler syntax, and looks nice, but the Kyoto style seems to be more flexible, allowing multiple services to be represented within single platforms. I really don't have much of an opinion on this other than it would be nice to get them standardized.
As for adjacent stations, I'd assume we'd want to convert to a table the entries like Jūsō, but there's also how to go about that as well. Returning to the Tokyo station article, it's adjacent stations table only includes the next local stop on each line. Meanwhile, Odawara's list lines as well as Express, Semi-Express, etc. services, each with their own service color. Personally, I find that listing specific services each with their own color is a little confusing. I realize the formatting is different for the service rows on the table, but I'm still not sure I think it would be easier to read if all the services had the same color as the line. If we wanted to show the colors of the service, we might be able to insert a colored block in the line naming the service, like so:
← | Service | → | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Shin-Yokohama | Tōkaidō/Sanyo Shinkansen | Shin-Yokohama | ||
Kamonomiya | Tōkaidō Main Line | Hayakawa | ||
Kozu | Rapid ACTY | Hayakawa | ||
Kozu | Commuter Rapid | Terminus | ||
Ashigara | Odakyu Odawara Line | Through service to Hakone Tozan Line | ||
Ashigara | ■ Semi-Express | Through service to Hakone Tozan Line | ||
Ashigara | ■ Express | Through service to Hakone Tozan Line | ||
Shin-Matsuda | ■ Rapid Express | Terminus |
That is, of course, if we decied that we should include information about local, express, etc. services at all and just go with the Tokyo Station approach. In any case, I'd like to see if anyone else has any opinions, and whether or not there is anything else that could use standardizing. ― El Cid ∴ ∵ 18:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
(Platform)
1 • 2 | █ Sanyō Main Line(lower) | to Miyajimaguchi • Iwakuni • Tokuyama |
---|---|---|
█ Kabe Line | to Ōmachi • Midorii • Kabe | |
3 • 4 | █ Kure Line | to Kure • Hiro • Takehara |
█ Kabe Line | to Ōmachi • Midorii • Kabe | |
█ Sanyō Main Line(lower) | to Miyajimaguchi • Iwakuni • Tokuyama | |
█ Sanyō Main Line(upper) | to Saijō • Mihara • Fukuyama | |
5 • 7 | █ Sanyō Main Line(upper) | to Saijō • Mihara • Fukuyama |
█ Kure Line | to Kure • Hiro • Takehara | |
8 • 9 | █ Geibi Line | to Shiwaguchi • Miyoshi |
11 • 12 | █ Sanyō Shinkansen(lower) | to Shin Yamaguchi • Hakata |
13 • 14 | █ Sanyō Shinkansen(upper) | to Okayama • Shin-Osaka • Tokyo |
(Adjacent stations)
Any others around? We should post examples here so we can more easily compary them. ···
日本穣
? ·
Talk to
Nihon
joe
18:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
1 - 5 | ■ Walrus Line |
■ Carpender Line | |
■ Clam Line | |
6 - 7 | ■ Corp Corp. Cash Line |
■ Corp Corp. Money Line |
8 - 9 | ■ Tweedle-Dee Shinkansen |
1 - 2 | ■ Tweedle-Dum Line |
← | Service | → | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Tokyo Station | Tōkaidō Line | Shinagawa Station | ||
Yurakucho Station | Yamanote Line | Hamamatsucho Station | ||
Yurakucho Station | Keihin-Tohoku Line | Hamamatsucho Station | ||
Tokyo Station | Yokosuka Line | Shinagawa Station | ||
Toranomon Station | Ginza Line | Ginza Station | ||
Daimon Station | Toei Asakusa Line | Higashi-Ginza Station | ||
Terminus | Yurikamome | Shiodome Station |
I mentioned User:Mangoe/Wikipedia is not a timetable above, the basic principles of which I wholeheartedly agree with. And I'm looking at railway line articles I've worked on and wondering if some of the information veers on the side of cruft or timetable info.
I'm thinking specifically of the station tables in articles like Sakurai Line#Stations. It's simple enough when all trains make local stops - just list the station name, Japanese name, official distance, connections if any, and the location. Nice and simple.
Or if you get to lines like JR Kobe Line#Stations, you have three train types, with rapid trains skipping some stops during rush hour. A little more complex, but not difficult to read.
But then you get something like Sanyo Railway Main Line#Stations, it's a different story. The line has two main train types, local and limited express, but it also three different service types coming from Hanshin, as well as two different types of off-peak limited expresses. As a result, you have a table that requires scrolling to read the far right column.
Now, I don't want to confuse an aesthetic issue with notability, but when information clutter makes reading difficult, then I think it's worth discussing whether the information really is notable enough. And in the case of station tables, stops for different services isn't notable, at least not notable enough for the level of clutter.
Thoughts? Ytny ( talk) 19:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps this will sound naive to people who are more railfanny than me, but it seems that there are two senses of the word platform that are being used. One is the real physical platform where people stand, and the other is the "platform" that the trains come to, which I think is actually the track. And two or more "platforms", or tracks, can service a single actual platform. I think the distinction in Japanese is プラットホーム (purattohoomu) vs. のりば (noriba), real-platform vs. track-platform respectively. Now, I know that in Japanese のりば also means a bus "platform". So it's more like "stop" or "getting on place" in English. In any case, it seems potentially confusing to refer to のりば as platforms in station articles because most station articles also talk about the number of physical platforms, which is sometimes a different number! Help? BilabialBoxing 07:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Should geodata (i.e. coordinates) be added to stations so that they show up on the Wikipedia layer of Google Earth? I think that I would support that, but I wonder if we shouldn't clutter Google Earth? BilabialBoxing 04:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm a creator of {{ ja-rail-line}} (and {{ ja-rail-linem}}, which is (probably) a useful template for putting station platform information on articles. Here's some notification about that. I wrote it here because talk page of this template will not be seen so oftenly. If you feel it's inappropriate for here, feel free to remove it.
{{ja-rail-line|1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} to {{ja-rail-line|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}}
{{ja-Stalayout}} {{ja-rail-line|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} to {{ja-rail-line|first=2|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} or {{ja-rail-line|first=4|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} for single platform.
For more detailed information, see the template page. -- Izumi5 08:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
FYI, Commons user 天然ガス has uploaded several Japanese train photos, mostly taken in the Kansai, but a few in Hokkaido, in case anyone is looking for photos to use in articles. Ytny ( talk) 02:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Keisei Ueno Station needs a photo, preferably in the Commons, either from the street showing the entrance or maybe an interior shot downstairs or the platforms. Oddly there is nothing in the commons or the Japanese wikipedia for this station. 11:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I just went to Japan. So, if you want the JR Pass picture that allows ulimited access to JR Trains, Shinkansen (some), JR Buses, & JR Ferries, go here.
Thanks, CarpD 5/27/07.
Hi guys. I found out there's barely any articles about Kintetsu. I have been working on some, and I am looking for someone to help. Kintetsu is the largest private railroad (excluding JR), and we better get to work.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
An IP editor made two changes to Tokyo Metro Yurakucho Line ( [1] and [2]), and another editor reverted them using VandalProof. They don't appear to have been vandalism, but they need clarification. Has anyone been following the introduction of 6000 series equipment to the Fukutoshin Line? If so, you might be able to help. Fg2 11:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm just beginning to get involved in trains right now, and more often tend to work on a great variety of other subjects (samurai battles, kabuki, ukiyo-e...). You guys are doing an amazing job of covering all the modern, contemporary stations and lines. Out of curiosity, however, are any of you here interested in, or contributing to, articles on Meiji-period trains, railroads in the colonies, or other historical subjects? LordAmeth 12:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I've posted the above move request, and I was hoping to get some feedback. I think the current name is a definite no-no - article name should be in English, and "Josei Sen'yō Sharyō" isn't notable enough to be an exception. Now, I'm not entirely sure if the name I'm proposing is the best one - it's neither Japan- nor rail-specific. Any ideas? Thanks. -- Ytny ( talk) 06:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
There are two stations named Nakatsu in Osaka, Osaka Prefecture, Japan. I hope this article will be splitted into two articles entitled Nakatsu Station (Hankyu) and Nakatsu Station (Osaka Municipal Subway) because two stations are not connected. Tigers boy 12:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Tōzai Line (JR West) → JR Tōzai Line
This one's a little complicated, since it goes against the current "JR by default" article naming convention, but the official name of the line should supersede the Wikipedia rule.
Please feel free to have your say at Talk:Tōzai Line (JR West) Ytny ( talk) 01:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed that there does not seem to be a good overview of rail transportation (or transportation in general) for Ōsaka and Kansai. Osaka#Transport is very short, Kansai#Transport does not exist, and Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto#Transportation is entirely in list form. This does not compare well with Transportation in Greater Tokyo, for example. I do not have too much to say about transportation in Kansai myself, but I hope someone could incorporate some of the maps that are available (such as Image:Wide-Area_Map_of_Osaka_City_Subway.png, Image:JR_West_Urban_Network.png, Image:Wide_Area_Map_of_Kintetsu.png, Image:Hankyu_map.svg) with some relevant text. I think that the maps, with other images like Image:WestJapanRailwayCompanyType223-1.JPG for context, could give a very good introduction to the subject without too much creativity needed in the text. I just uploaded Image:JR_West_Urban_Network.png (mentioned above), which I hope is useful for this...
Esetzer 12:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I've listed a batch of subway line categories for deletion (or merge) at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 2#Tokyosubway. The reason is that these categories only contain main subway line articles and station subcategories. We're not going to have any more articles about Ginza Line to place in Category:Tokyo Metro Ginza Line, and there already is a Category:Stations of Tokyo Metro Ginza Line, adding an extra step in navigation. Ytny ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The CfD is now closed; and we need to do the Upmerge. Most stations appear to use Template:Ja-linecat for the Stations of _______ Line Category. Should we modify this template, or manually replace each category in each article?-- Endroit 19:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Is there something special about 3/18 ? Several train-related things happened today, spread around the country ( station and renaming in Hyōgo; new line in Sendai; PASMO becomes operational in Tokyo). I couldn't think of a pronunciation which was meaningful (ala the popular marriage day "ii fūfu" on 11/22). Is JR just trying to compact all the ダイヤ confusion into one day? Neier 04:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I spotted one item in need of correction and one clarification needed for this page.
"Adjacent Stations" on subway #3 line: Kishinekoen station is incorrect; should be Mitsuzawa-shimocho.
References to the "Sagami line" should point out that on most maps and signage (including everywhere in Yokohama staion, as far as I've seen), this line is referred to as "Sotetsu line". In my opinion it might be more useful to refer to it generally as Sotetsu (having once pointed out the offical Sagami name). 124.144.252.123 13:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed there's a lot of variety on how tables for platforms and adjacent stations are set up. I thought we might discuss how we might be able to standardize their appearance.
When it comes to platforms, the two best systems seem to be the Tokyo Station layout and the Kyoto Station style. The Tokyo layout seems to have a simpler syntax, and looks nice, but the Kyoto style seems to be more flexible, allowing multiple services to be represented within single platforms. I really don't have much of an opinion on this other than it would be nice to get them standardized.
As for adjacent stations, I'd assume we'd want to convert to a table the entries like Jūsō, but there's also how to go about that as well. Returning to the Tokyo station article, it's adjacent stations table only includes the next local stop on each line. Meanwhile, Odawara's list lines as well as Express, Semi-Express, etc. services, each with their own service color. Personally, I find that listing specific services each with their own color is a little confusing. I realize the formatting is different for the service rows on the table, but I'm still not sure I think it would be easier to read if all the services had the same color as the line. If we wanted to show the colors of the service, we might be able to insert a colored block in the line naming the service, like so:
← | Service | → | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Shin-Yokohama | Tōkaidō/Sanyo Shinkansen | Shin-Yokohama | ||
Kamonomiya | Tōkaidō Main Line | Hayakawa | ||
Kozu | Rapid ACTY | Hayakawa | ||
Kozu | Commuter Rapid | Terminus | ||
Ashigara | Odakyu Odawara Line | Through service to Hakone Tozan Line | ||
Ashigara | ■ Semi-Express | Through service to Hakone Tozan Line | ||
Ashigara | ■ Express | Through service to Hakone Tozan Line | ||
Shin-Matsuda | ■ Rapid Express | Terminus |
That is, of course, if we decied that we should include information about local, express, etc. services at all and just go with the Tokyo Station approach. In any case, I'd like to see if anyone else has any opinions, and whether or not there is anything else that could use standardizing. ― El Cid ∴ ∵ 18:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
(Platform)
1 • 2 | █ Sanyō Main Line(lower) | to Miyajimaguchi • Iwakuni • Tokuyama |
---|---|---|
█ Kabe Line | to Ōmachi • Midorii • Kabe | |
3 • 4 | █ Kure Line | to Kure • Hiro • Takehara |
█ Kabe Line | to Ōmachi • Midorii • Kabe | |
█ Sanyō Main Line(lower) | to Miyajimaguchi • Iwakuni • Tokuyama | |
█ Sanyō Main Line(upper) | to Saijō • Mihara • Fukuyama | |
5 • 7 | █ Sanyō Main Line(upper) | to Saijō • Mihara • Fukuyama |
█ Kure Line | to Kure • Hiro • Takehara | |
8 • 9 | █ Geibi Line | to Shiwaguchi • Miyoshi |
11 • 12 | █ Sanyō Shinkansen(lower) | to Shin Yamaguchi • Hakata |
13 • 14 | █ Sanyō Shinkansen(upper) | to Okayama • Shin-Osaka • Tokyo |
(Adjacent stations)
Any others around? We should post examples here so we can more easily compary them. ···
日本穣
? ·
Talk to
Nihon
joe
18:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
1 - 5 | ■ Walrus Line |
■ Carpender Line | |
■ Clam Line | |
6 - 7 | ■ Corp Corp. Cash Line |
■ Corp Corp. Money Line |
8 - 9 | ■ Tweedle-Dee Shinkansen |
1 - 2 | ■ Tweedle-Dum Line |
← | Service | → | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Tokyo Station | Tōkaidō Line | Shinagawa Station | ||
Yurakucho Station | Yamanote Line | Hamamatsucho Station | ||
Yurakucho Station | Keihin-Tohoku Line | Hamamatsucho Station | ||
Tokyo Station | Yokosuka Line | Shinagawa Station | ||
Toranomon Station | Ginza Line | Ginza Station | ||
Daimon Station | Toei Asakusa Line | Higashi-Ginza Station | ||
Terminus | Yurikamome | Shiodome Station |
I mentioned User:Mangoe/Wikipedia is not a timetable above, the basic principles of which I wholeheartedly agree with. And I'm looking at railway line articles I've worked on and wondering if some of the information veers on the side of cruft or timetable info.
I'm thinking specifically of the station tables in articles like Sakurai Line#Stations. It's simple enough when all trains make local stops - just list the station name, Japanese name, official distance, connections if any, and the location. Nice and simple.
Or if you get to lines like JR Kobe Line#Stations, you have three train types, with rapid trains skipping some stops during rush hour. A little more complex, but not difficult to read.
But then you get something like Sanyo Railway Main Line#Stations, it's a different story. The line has two main train types, local and limited express, but it also three different service types coming from Hanshin, as well as two different types of off-peak limited expresses. As a result, you have a table that requires scrolling to read the far right column.
Now, I don't want to confuse an aesthetic issue with notability, but when information clutter makes reading difficult, then I think it's worth discussing whether the information really is notable enough. And in the case of station tables, stops for different services isn't notable, at least not notable enough for the level of clutter.
Thoughts? Ytny ( talk) 19:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps this will sound naive to people who are more railfanny than me, but it seems that there are two senses of the word platform that are being used. One is the real physical platform where people stand, and the other is the "platform" that the trains come to, which I think is actually the track. And two or more "platforms", or tracks, can service a single actual platform. I think the distinction in Japanese is プラットホーム (purattohoomu) vs. のりば (noriba), real-platform vs. track-platform respectively. Now, I know that in Japanese のりば also means a bus "platform". So it's more like "stop" or "getting on place" in English. In any case, it seems potentially confusing to refer to のりば as platforms in station articles because most station articles also talk about the number of physical platforms, which is sometimes a different number! Help? BilabialBoxing 07:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Should geodata (i.e. coordinates) be added to stations so that they show up on the Wikipedia layer of Google Earth? I think that I would support that, but I wonder if we shouldn't clutter Google Earth? BilabialBoxing 04:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm a creator of {{ ja-rail-line}} (and {{ ja-rail-linem}}, which is (probably) a useful template for putting station platform information on articles. Here's some notification about that. I wrote it here because talk page of this template will not be seen so oftenly. If you feel it's inappropriate for here, feel free to remove it.
{{ja-rail-line|1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} to {{ja-rail-line|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}}
{{ja-Stalayout}} {{ja-rail-line|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} to {{ja-rail-line|first=2|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} or {{ja-rail-line|first=4|pfn=1|name=Line name|col=Line color|dir=Direction}} for single platform.
For more detailed information, see the template page. -- Izumi5 08:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
FYI, Commons user 天然ガス has uploaded several Japanese train photos, mostly taken in the Kansai, but a few in Hokkaido, in case anyone is looking for photos to use in articles. Ytny ( talk) 02:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Keisei Ueno Station needs a photo, preferably in the Commons, either from the street showing the entrance or maybe an interior shot downstairs or the platforms. Oddly there is nothing in the commons or the Japanese wikipedia for this station. 11:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I just went to Japan. So, if you want the JR Pass picture that allows ulimited access to JR Trains, Shinkansen (some), JR Buses, & JR Ferries, go here.
Thanks, CarpD 5/27/07.
Hi guys. I found out there's barely any articles about Kintetsu. I have been working on some, and I am looking for someone to help. Kintetsu is the largest private railroad (excluding JR), and we better get to work.