This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Electric universe (concept). Comment as you will. -- ScienceApologist 13:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Harold_Aspden. Comment please. -- ScienceApologist 00:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I am getting increasingly tired of the minority of people on Wikipedia who seem to feel that NPOV is an excuse to add any unsubstantiated claim to a Wikipedia article. Every single article that takes a skeptical POV has complaints about NPOV violation on the talk page.
This is no more apparent than on pages concerning individuals who claim paranormal powers such as Sylvia Browne, John Edward and Uri Geller. For example, every so often someone removes the term "self-proclaimed" from the introductory paragraph in the Browne article, which states "Sylvia Browne is a self-proclaimed psychic..."
On the one hand, I can understand the concern - "self-proclaimed" is a somewhat loaded term. But what is the alternative? We certainly can't leave it at "Sylvia Browne is a psychic..., which is just plain wrong.
So what are we to do? As I wrote a while back in the guidelines proposal, we know we are right, but they also know they are right and neither is willing to give an inch, so I think it is up to us to come up with a solution.
I propose that we start with a set of project guidelines for articles which fall into the WP:BLP category. Namely:
Thoughts?
-- Qarnos 10:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and made a sample fix for the lead. Why is Sylvia Browne notable for Wikipedia? It's not because she is a psychic or a medium. It's because she's a media darling and the author of bestselling books. So that's what Browne is: a talkshow guest and an author who describes herself as psychic. This is totally NPOV and is more accurate a portrayal anyway. When I first got to Wikipedia, I thought NPOV was ruining the encyclopedia too, but I was wrong. Skepticism does not need to be hampered because skeptical resources will always be able to parry the cranky sources through verifiability and reliability. As things get referenced it will become more and more clear that the cranky side will only be able to report on their ideas through limited sources of questionable repute and so will find their descriptions hampered by NPOV. Also, you might check-out the ongoing development of fringe guidelines. They will become more and more important if you continue in editting articles to include skeptical review. Keep your chin up and remember that attribution will keep Wikipedia honest. -- ScienceApologist 14:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and created archives for 2006 in two seperate sections. Hopefully, that will make it easier to keep track of things on this page. All the discussions through December were ended so, if anyone wants to bring up those subjects again, please create a new topic here and leave the Archives in their current state. -- Kesh 01:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Comment here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ralph Juergens. -- ScienceApologist 19:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have happened upon a couple of articles which desperately need some rational attention from people with more experience in dealing with Wikipedia fights than I do:
Advice for dealing with this insanity would be appreciated. Rosenkreuz 09:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello all. An article on
Oscillococcinum is falling victim to reverts removing a science / balanced viewpoint on the treatment. Oscillococcinum is a homeopathic remedy, diluted to such a concentration that if a molecule of the active ingredient were present at the last step, it would be at a concentration of 1 molecule per 10^200 water molecules. The article often reads as an ad, explaining that four studies have found it effective, that the treatment is safe, and that the FDA approves of the manufacturing method. Would appreciate any contributions to the article / help with the reverting editor. Thanks.
Akevin
09:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
The Natasha Demkina article, which appears to have been the cause of so many skeptics' burnouts, needs some skeptical attention again. After a peaceful and stable period, it has been the target of some substantial rewrites recently from editors trying to introduce some extraordinary claims of Demkina's success, as well as some dubious references. My pleas to take it slow and discuss contentious changes have been largely ignored. I need help. Nick Graves 17:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Carl Sagan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here
Criticism of parapsychology seems to have been written purely to refute criticisms of parapsychology. The style of writing consists, or orginally consisted of weak one or two line skeptical arguments followed by large, cited refutations with backup quotes. It cites few critical sources, and leans heavily on one supporting author. Besides that, it's pretty poorly organized all around. I've attempted to fix it somewhat, but it needs a lot more. -- Consumed Crustacean ( talk) 03:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
That page seems to of been edited a lot by User:Martinphi and User:Dreadlocke. They seem to be dedicating a lot of time adding POV to articles relating to the paranormal. See their "Contributions" for a huge list of surely POV articles. Wikidudeman (talk) 12:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I just got here and I wanted to take basically put out a rally call for everyone to pay attention. A good majority of the paranormal articles are POV and bias and we need to gather and start spending some time working on this project.
And MOST of all...
So everyone who is a member of this project, Please start focusing some time on it and also focus on looking out for other editors who might make good members.
Also, Anyone who thinks I might be missing something please chime in. Thanks. Wikidudeman (talk) 12:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
There is an anonymous editor, first at 80.140.101.111 and now at 80.140.82.184, that keeps changing the introduction to the Morgellons page. There was a cited quote from the journal Nature Medicine that stated "Most dermatologists do not think that the disease exists" - and this editor repeatedly changed "Most" to "Many" despite being informed that it was a quote. They also removed the rather significant statement in the opening sentence which indicates that Morgellons is a controversial subject, and has not yet been confirmed as a legitimate medical condition, thereby altering the sentence to imply that its existence is accepted as a fact ("Morgellons" or "Morgellons disease" is a medical condition). It is NOT confirmed that Morgellons *is* a medical condition, and it cannot be stated as such.
I am curious as to how I might deal with this if this editor maintains the edit war after two reverts. Or maybe some others here can back me up and help keep an eye on this page. Thanks. Dyanega 18:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I've been working on Backmasking with the ultimate goal of an FA, and I could use some help with creating short samples of backmasked messages. Meanwhile, there's some controversy on the talk page about the section on Satanic messages, and further input from skeptics would be helpful. Λυδαcιτγ 02:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Since there has been canvassing amongst proponents of the paranormal, might as well post it here as well: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 18#Category:Purported psychics. -- Minderbinder 13:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that very soon an arbitration will go on regarding paranormal topics at Wikipedia, especially with regards to Electronic voice phenomenon. You can find discussion about this impending litigation here. Please advise. -- ScienceApologist 18:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Electric universe (concept). Comment as you will. -- ScienceApologist 13:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Harold_Aspden. Comment please. -- ScienceApologist 00:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I am getting increasingly tired of the minority of people on Wikipedia who seem to feel that NPOV is an excuse to add any unsubstantiated claim to a Wikipedia article. Every single article that takes a skeptical POV has complaints about NPOV violation on the talk page.
This is no more apparent than on pages concerning individuals who claim paranormal powers such as Sylvia Browne, John Edward and Uri Geller. For example, every so often someone removes the term "self-proclaimed" from the introductory paragraph in the Browne article, which states "Sylvia Browne is a self-proclaimed psychic..."
On the one hand, I can understand the concern - "self-proclaimed" is a somewhat loaded term. But what is the alternative? We certainly can't leave it at "Sylvia Browne is a psychic..., which is just plain wrong.
So what are we to do? As I wrote a while back in the guidelines proposal, we know we are right, but they also know they are right and neither is willing to give an inch, so I think it is up to us to come up with a solution.
I propose that we start with a set of project guidelines for articles which fall into the WP:BLP category. Namely:
Thoughts?
-- Qarnos 10:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and made a sample fix for the lead. Why is Sylvia Browne notable for Wikipedia? It's not because she is a psychic or a medium. It's because she's a media darling and the author of bestselling books. So that's what Browne is: a talkshow guest and an author who describes herself as psychic. This is totally NPOV and is more accurate a portrayal anyway. When I first got to Wikipedia, I thought NPOV was ruining the encyclopedia too, but I was wrong. Skepticism does not need to be hampered because skeptical resources will always be able to parry the cranky sources through verifiability and reliability. As things get referenced it will become more and more clear that the cranky side will only be able to report on their ideas through limited sources of questionable repute and so will find their descriptions hampered by NPOV. Also, you might check-out the ongoing development of fringe guidelines. They will become more and more important if you continue in editting articles to include skeptical review. Keep your chin up and remember that attribution will keep Wikipedia honest. -- ScienceApologist 14:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and created archives for 2006 in two seperate sections. Hopefully, that will make it easier to keep track of things on this page. All the discussions through December were ended so, if anyone wants to bring up those subjects again, please create a new topic here and leave the Archives in their current state. -- Kesh 01:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Comment here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ralph Juergens. -- ScienceApologist 19:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have happened upon a couple of articles which desperately need some rational attention from people with more experience in dealing with Wikipedia fights than I do:
Advice for dealing with this insanity would be appreciated. Rosenkreuz 09:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello all. An article on
Oscillococcinum is falling victim to reverts removing a science / balanced viewpoint on the treatment. Oscillococcinum is a homeopathic remedy, diluted to such a concentration that if a molecule of the active ingredient were present at the last step, it would be at a concentration of 1 molecule per 10^200 water molecules. The article often reads as an ad, explaining that four studies have found it effective, that the treatment is safe, and that the FDA approves of the manufacturing method. Would appreciate any contributions to the article / help with the reverting editor. Thanks.
Akevin
09:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
The Natasha Demkina article, which appears to have been the cause of so many skeptics' burnouts, needs some skeptical attention again. After a peaceful and stable period, it has been the target of some substantial rewrites recently from editors trying to introduce some extraordinary claims of Demkina's success, as well as some dubious references. My pleas to take it slow and discuss contentious changes have been largely ignored. I need help. Nick Graves 17:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Carl Sagan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here
Criticism of parapsychology seems to have been written purely to refute criticisms of parapsychology. The style of writing consists, or orginally consisted of weak one or two line skeptical arguments followed by large, cited refutations with backup quotes. It cites few critical sources, and leans heavily on one supporting author. Besides that, it's pretty poorly organized all around. I've attempted to fix it somewhat, but it needs a lot more. -- Consumed Crustacean ( talk) 03:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
That page seems to of been edited a lot by User:Martinphi and User:Dreadlocke. They seem to be dedicating a lot of time adding POV to articles relating to the paranormal. See their "Contributions" for a huge list of surely POV articles. Wikidudeman (talk) 12:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I just got here and I wanted to take basically put out a rally call for everyone to pay attention. A good majority of the paranormal articles are POV and bias and we need to gather and start spending some time working on this project.
And MOST of all...
So everyone who is a member of this project, Please start focusing some time on it and also focus on looking out for other editors who might make good members.
Also, Anyone who thinks I might be missing something please chime in. Thanks. Wikidudeman (talk) 12:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
There is an anonymous editor, first at 80.140.101.111 and now at 80.140.82.184, that keeps changing the introduction to the Morgellons page. There was a cited quote from the journal Nature Medicine that stated "Most dermatologists do not think that the disease exists" - and this editor repeatedly changed "Most" to "Many" despite being informed that it was a quote. They also removed the rather significant statement in the opening sentence which indicates that Morgellons is a controversial subject, and has not yet been confirmed as a legitimate medical condition, thereby altering the sentence to imply that its existence is accepted as a fact ("Morgellons" or "Morgellons disease" is a medical condition). It is NOT confirmed that Morgellons *is* a medical condition, and it cannot be stated as such.
I am curious as to how I might deal with this if this editor maintains the edit war after two reverts. Or maybe some others here can back me up and help keep an eye on this page. Thanks. Dyanega 18:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I've been working on Backmasking with the ultimate goal of an FA, and I could use some help with creating short samples of backmasked messages. Meanwhile, there's some controversy on the talk page about the section on Satanic messages, and further input from skeptics would be helpful. Λυδαcιτγ 02:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Since there has been canvassing amongst proponents of the paranormal, might as well post it here as well: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 18#Category:Purported psychics. -- Minderbinder 13:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that very soon an arbitration will go on regarding paranormal topics at Wikipedia, especially with regards to Electronic voice phenomenon. You can find discussion about this impending litigation here. Please advise. -- ScienceApologist 18:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)