This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | → | Archive 20 |
Just by way of a heads up, an IP 2.25.193.74 keeps removing sections relating to internationally capped players in various Club articles e.g. Bath. I keep reverting as I spot these, but some more eyes on this might be useful. Hamish59 ( talk) 14:08, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
I think that these two issues "Notable players" and "former internationals" coincide as the main criteria for being a notable player seems to be international caps.
I agree with PeeJay regarding some articles getting very big / wall of names. London Scottish F.C. with their 220 capped players springs to mind. That said, no reason not to put them into a collapsed table: (This is very rough and ready, so please bear with me)
London Scottish have produced more than 220 Scottish international players which is more than any other club.
Notes | Notes | Notes | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
David Bedell-Sivright | Iain Fullarton | Alastair McHarg | one of the many stalwarts of the club | ||
Mike Biggar | Gavin Hastings | 3 World Cups 87, 91, 95 | Iain Morrison | World Cup 95 | |
Al Biggar | Sandy Hinshelwood | Jim Shackleton | |||
Norman Bruce | Simon Holmes | Ian Smith | Joint record Scotland try scorer with 24 tries | ||
Paul Burnell | their most capped player for the club with 52 matches for Scotland (3 World Cups - 91, 95, 99) | Iain Laughland | Arthur Smith | ||
Mike Campbell-Lamerton | Alan Lawson | Frans ten Bos | |||
Damian Cronin | 2 World Cups 91, 95 | Derrick Lee | Rob Wainwright | World Cup 95 | |
Ronnie Eriksson | Kenny Logan | 3 World Cups 95, 99, 03 | Derek White | World Cup 91 | |
Max Evans | 1 World Cup 11 | Bill Maclagan | 1st British Lion Captain 1891 (South Africa) | ||
James Pringle Fisher | David MacMyn |
This format encourages editors to justify the inclusion of each player. I would think that any redlink is probably an indication that said player should not be included (add a commented entry?)
I note that there is nothing in the Style Guide regarding former international players either way. I also agree that "just because diveball does it..." is not a sufficient reason. So, I think we need a debate as to whether they should be included or not. If they are to be included, we need to generate criteria. I quite like the Scarlets approach - 20 caps - though there would be a bias against earlier players (more internationals played these days than, say 100 years ago.
Sorry, Lions beckons, I will finish this later. Hamish59 ( talk) 10:05, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I'd say that this is WP:RU, not WP:FOOTY. Just because one project does it does not mean that a project dedicated to another sport should follow suit. Also in doing this, it makes it harder to apply WP:RU/N as international players in clubs articles might not be able to fit easily into normal text and it is much easier to work out notability if there is a list of international capped players. For example, Tunbridge Wells RFC might be hard to work in their former international players into the main body of text. The C of E God Save the Queen! ( talk) 11:31, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Without wishing to be too radical, as long as each member of the "internationals" list has a reference, that's fine. What's worse is the "notable players" lists which have no inclusion criteria and no references. I will start eliminating these "lists" to the talkpages tomorrow as they are not appropriate without criteria. The Rambling Man ( talk) 22:35, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I actually prefer it the way it is now. It gives the article a bit of "colour" in terms that an average reader would probably find it interesting how many capped Samoans have played for a certain French club. I just wish we could do it for all teams. Yes further down the line it may seem a bit bulky but lets take into account that wikipedia gets upgraded every month or so by that time there may be an easier way to list them all.-- Stemoc ( talk) 01:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
At what point does the old season end and the new season begin? What I mean is: at what point do we consider 2013/14 to be the current season in, for example, the infobox for English Premiership (rugby union). Hamish59 ( talk) 15:17, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
My apologies, people, I did not make myself clear enough. As an example, the infobox for English Premiership (rugby union) shows the Current season or competition: as 2012–13 English Premiership (rugby union). This is not strictly correct as the 12/13 season is now over (so not current). At some point, this will need to change to 2013–14 English Premiership (rugby union). The question is: when does it need to be changed? Hamish59 ( talk) 08:13, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Is there any sourceably correct way to use "Test" or "test" (as in "test match")? We are horribly inconsistent with our capitalisation. – Pee Jay 01:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I assume if you follow this page, you've probably seen this already, but 2013 mid-year rugby union tests is currently at AfD. If you want to take part, the discussion is here. – Pee Jay 16:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Just wondering if someone familiar with refereeing and the laws of the game could have a look at my questions/comments at Talk:Rugby union match officials. Hack ( talk) 00:13, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Discussion about the use of the word Nickname. More opinions would he helpful Gnevin ( talk) 11:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I nominated List of 1888–89 New Zealand Native football team matches as a Featured List nominee in mid-April, and haven't had very many comments. One of the featured delegates has mentioned that the nom has stalled, so I'm here to ask if anyone is willing to give the list a read through and offer their comments at the nomination page ( here)? A few extra set of eyes would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. – Shudde talk 12:56, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I much prefer template {{Infobox rugby union biography}} to {{Infobox rugby biography}}.
The main – and in my opinion, an incredibly important – problem with {{Infobox rugby biography}} is that you have to separate teams using a line break. As soon as the team name is too big to fit into the infobox and wraps to the next line, the problems start. I've come across hundreds of infoboxes where additional line breaks were added between the years/caps/points fields too to ensure the data lines up with a wrapped team name – which might work on the screen of the person that edited that, but the second that someone with a different screen resolution views the page, it might be different again. Now, this isn't just a display issue; it actually presents information inaccurately, which should surely be a big no-no. The only decent solution to this is to ensure that there is definitely no text wrapping going on in the team name, but I don't think it makes much sense to expect editors to always remember this and it is also not overly helpful to newbie editors, who might not understand the significance of this. A smaller by-problem with this is that it also makes the infobox more difficult to read when editing (i.e. to find out which years correspond to which team, appearances and points).
A simple change to the template – as per {{Infobox rugby union biography}} – completely removes this potential issue, since the teams/years/caps/points are all separate fields and, should wrapping occur (even by adding a line-break in), all the related fields will still be correctly displayed next to each other.
Secondly, I also don't really understand why there are so many different sections in {{Infobox rugby biography}} with regards to teams played for. It distinguishes between Provincial/State sides, Super Rugby and Professional clubs. When a player leaves a professional side in the southern hemisphere to join a professional side in the northern hemisphere, there are three separate sections affected; it really should just be one. In the northern hemisphere, the same club sides play in their domestic leagues as in the Heineken Cup. Players' appearances in those competitions aren't reported separately, why should it be for Super Rugby? In fact, for Super Rugby, it's easy to see the Super Rugby appearances anyway, since the teams are different in Super Rugby and domestic competition. If we're trying to homogenise infoboxes to cater for all different leagues, etc., the separate sections should be removed and it should be displayed in a way that can apply to all competitions in all countries, which is handled better by {{Infobox rugby union biography}}, in my opinion.
Thirdly – and this is a really small issue – in South Africa, our rugby tiers are basically international rugby, then Super Rugby, then the provincial tournaments (Currie Cup and Vodacom Cup) and then club rugby. However, the Vodacom Cup tournament is on during the same time as Super Rugby (and therefore mainly young players and reserves play in that). On top of that, the Varsity Cup competition is also going on at the same time which, as the name suggests, is a competition between universities. The universities are club sides, so it's regarded at a lower tier than the Vodacom Cup. Yet, it gets significantly more television and other media coverage, the standard of play is considered higher and some domestic teams would actually send some of their players en masse to go and play for their local university team rather than participate in the Vodacom Cup. Yet, appearances in the Vodacom Cup are regarded first class appearances for their team. For those reasons, a player's participation in the Varsity Cup is a noteworthy part of a player's career and should be listed in the infobox. The ru_amateuryears and ru_amateurclubs fields are ideal for this, but appearances and points fields are missing. This should be easily enough to add into the {{Infobox rugby biography}} template though. TheMightyPeanut ( talk) 08:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
The current {{Infobox rugby biography}} biography – copied and pasted from the actual page, with some details removed. Please note the wrapping:
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The current {{Infobox rugby biography}} biography, cleaned up with nowrap templates all over the place – unnecessary additional maintenance:
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The template changed to use the {{Infobox rugby union biography}} template:
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I honestly think the infobox on the right give a far better general impression of his overall career than the other two. I removed sections like the national representation, both templates show this in a similar layout, I don't think there's any debate there. TheMightyPeanut ( talk) 10:28, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
I prefer the Middle one as well, it can be reduced as someone mentioned above by using 11 instead of 2011 but what i would like ahcanged a bit is the "Caps (points)" section, i thin the term caps is used ONLY for international matches and this is club rugby so it should be replaced with either 'games' or 'matches' and to also change rhe 2nd part to (points)[tries] to list both the points scored by a player and the tries..generally in a team only one or 2 player would score points in terms of goals (flyhalf or their goal kicker), the rest of the team score tries for example if they have a centre that scored 10 tries, its idiotic to write (50) under points when he didn't actually score 50 points but 10 tries. Media will always say how many tries a player scored, not what it amounts too..I also prefer a rugby league format to the points section
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The option to add (Pld/ T/ G/ DG /P) instead of the points section..-- Stemoc ( talk) 12:02, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
Can we go ahead with this? using the Rugby league format for writing the points section atleast. If we look through the articles of some of the Dual codes converts, like Lote Tuqiri, Israel Folau, Sonny Bill Williams, you would realise what importance the addition of (Pld/ T/ G/ DG /P) adds to the article. The last few days i have been going through rugby articles where the number of points scored by players is odd, such as 122 points by winger and as i have mentioned above, most of the rugby fans do not care how much points all the tries scored a rugby player accumulates to. That 122 points could be anything from 24 tries and a conversion or 20 tries and 11 conversions...please we REALLY REALLY need to fix this, as TheMightyPeanut said, it can be "automated".... I now literally add the number of Tries next to articles where a player has scored many tries such as "(260)52t" or "(238)47t-1dg, it makes the template ugly but then I'm DEFINITELY not the only one that wonders how many tries, drop goals, conversions and penalties Dan Carter has scored in his 95 tests and 1,399 points everytime I go to his article...-- Stemoc ( talk) 05:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Can we have the Old heads of this group to come over to that page and discuss the issue at hand. The page has run amok since its FAILED Deletion request and now we have people who don't care much for rugby dictating WHAT should and should not be included..-- Stemoc ( talk) 01:39, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Please can we have some sensible editors get involved? Rugby.change and Stemoc are not engaging in civil discussion and do not appear to understand (or read) any policies. Thanks. -- hippo43 ( talk) 03:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Both of you are making many personal attacks and very little discussion about actual content. No wonder no one wants to get involved in this dispute – it's not productive at all. Here is my advice: I would suggest a proper move proposal (as per WP:RM/CM) – brief comments in a deletion discussion are not enough, it should have been discussed more broadly. There is nothing wrong with a more all encompassing name (in my opinion), as although there are a number of individual series articles (such as 2013 British and Irish Lions tour to Australia), a brief summary (per WP:SUMMARY) of each series - with
at the top of the section – can be added to this article: it wouldn't ruin it, and would reduce the likely-hood of content forking and duplication. Maybe discuss (rather than edit war or attack) a couple of names for the article you think would be appropriate, you don't have to both agree on them. Then start a move discussion (as per WP:RM/CM) with the different potential names (try not to have too many options, maybe three max) - when you do this it is important that you add a note about the discussion on the project talk page, and on the talk pages of any affected articles. That way there will be more input from uninvolved editors, and a broad consensus may be possible. At least with the name sorted the scope of the article may be more specifically defined. - Shudde talk 07:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Any Team that is playing as a TEST team (not an A team or Random Select XV) against any team on tour DESERVE to be LISTED as that match is part of that "touring" team's ITINERARY
That is the only thing i was going for and yet the likes of Hippo and PeeJay kept removing legit matches. The first problems is obviously the title of the article(s), we already agree calling it Summer Internationals and Autumn Internationals is absurd and its neither a competition, nor a tournament, nor a Championship but it is a series of rugby matches played in a certain window which IRB opens up to allow for International games... Lets discuss the name issue at hand before we discuss what goes in those articles in the future and what doesn't...-- Stemoc ( talk) 11:12, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Should we start a new project inviting users and people we may know personally who can provide pictures of rugby players that we can use in their articles? Most of the Rugby related articles lack headshots of players. I tried searching on flickr (with appropriate licences) but none could be uploaded to Wikipedia. If we know someone who has a good collection and is willing to upload them to the "free domain", we could invite them to create an account here or on Commons and upload them there so that they can be cropped and used on player articles. Only about less than a 100 players actually have a real headshot pic or what can be deemed a "headshot". Even most news sites use pics from wikipedia due to its free/appropriate licensing so it would be great if we can get this off the floor. A few articles in the "Good Article" and "Featured" articles on wikipedia could also used some good images. I have been trying to this for years now and I had to go through my old images to find any pic related to these players and even though the pics were of poor quality, I uploaded them because any pic is better than no pic...-- Stemoc ( talk) 02:08, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm proposing a page move on Talk:2008 Wallabies Spring tour, which would also be extended to quite a number of Australian tours from 1989 onwards but I'd appreciate the views of the project first. Thanks. -- Bcp67 ( talk) 14:58, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Apparently, according to the note posted at Talk:Line-out (rugby union)#File:ST vs LOU - 21.jpg to appear as POTD soon, the picture of the day on 26 July 2013 will be of a line-out. There is a full note on the talk page. The article was pretty much unreferenced, and I've added some appropriate links at the bottom of the article. Still no inline citations though. If anyone wants to spend some time giving it a read and making sure it'll all make sense to someone unfamiliar with rugby, then that'd be great. The template for the POTD is located at {{ POTD/2013-07-26}}. I've transcluded it below as well for those that are interested.
Can someone please have a word with User:Beknow about the way they are inputting stats on the Stephen Jones (rugby player) article? For some reason, they seem to think that Jones' stats for Llanelli RFC should be merged with his stats for the Scarlets, which is of course ridiculous since the Scarlets didn't exist until 2003 and they are a separate club from Llanelli RFC. I've tried talking directly to this user as well as making informative edit summaries, but they are apparently too stubborn to see sense. – Pee Jay 02:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi all. As per the section title - does it merit a stand-alone article? Peter aka "every time I watch a game of union I just want to yell out 'don't kick the f*cking ball, run with it!' " aka -- Shirt58 ( talk) 13:28, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
This was already noted to WP Football (for Associação Académica de Coimbra – O.A.F., there is a move discussion at Talk:Coimbra Academic Association regarding the parent student association which has some relation to the Associação Académica de Coimbra rugby union article at Talk:Coimbra Academic Association#Rugby Union. In ictu oculi ( talk) 22:20, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Category:Tom French Cup winners, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 18:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
Hi all,
I asked a question regarding the test numbers in Women's international rugby union#Test Numbers. I figured I'd mention it here, since I get the impression not too many people look there...
(As an aside, why are there different templates for the women's game, Template:wrugbybox and Template:WTournament?)
Grande ( talk) 16:44, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Are Steve Diamond and Steve Diamond (Rugby union) the same person? It seems somewhat implausible that there's two people involved in rugby called Steve Diamond - but then the former there was apparently playing in 1976, while the latter was only born in 1966 (according to the article). But then I'm also surprised that the article for the Sale coach was only created in April, given he's been coaching top level rugby for a decade. Anyway, if they're different people they need better disambiguation and if they're not then one needs deleting as a duplicate. HornetMike ( talk) 10:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Has been ignored for far too long hasn't it? I know it was Hamey's brainchild but I think its about time we updated it a bit atleast..anyone want to volunteer to take the leap? :) -- Stemoc ( talk) 05:13, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Had another look at the selected biographies. Figured I'd sort this out before moving onto the article of the month, selected picture etc. At the moment we have six selected biographies, and they are displayed randomly. The six are:
Of these six. I think the first three are the best. The articles are of good quality. They are up-to-date (which is easy for Gould and Ellison), and they all have a good image. The other three are not so good. They go out of date easy, Mark Hammett doesn't have an image. Are there any suggestions for other articles. Here are a few criteria I can think of:
Does anyone have any suggestions? An Australian, South African or French player would be great. We can have as many biographies as we want. There are no limits, just requires changing one parameter on the Portal:Rugby union page to increase the number. If you spot a good biography you think should be up there please list it here! Thanks. -- Shudde talk 05:37, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello, fellow English-speaking wikipedians, I'd like to point out this -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 19:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
In Andy Mitchells's 2012 book "First Elevens" [1], he states that the Robert Munro who played in the 1871 international was not the person referred to in the Robert Munro (rugby footballer) article. He states that in 1871, there were two pupils of this name at St Andrews University; this one, born 1839, and another, born in 1853. While the 1839 Munro left the university in 1871, the other continued until 1873 during which time he appeared regularly in the university teams. The younger Munro also entered the church, and became a noted antiquary. Not being a rugby minded person, I am reluctant to completely rewrite the article - if the present subject did not play international rugby, his work as a minister is probably not sufficient to warrant keeping a separate article. Does anyone have any thoughts? -- Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 09:13, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I wanted to warn you that I just moved the article from Steve McDowell to its current name for the reason that you can find in the page's chronology. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 16:30, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I created this article, but rugby is not my strong point. I'd be grateful if someone with more expertise could look it over. Emeraude ( talk) 13:21, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed some examples of current season league tables being included within club articles. This doesn't seem appropriate. The table shouldn't be duplicated at all the club articles within the league. Any views? See Hull Ionians article for example and recent edits. Regards. Eldumpo ( talk) 09:02, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
The template {{Infobox rugby union season}} seems to be broken in that the parameter | website = does not show up on page view. For example, if you look at 2013–14 Pro 12, the infobox does not show a link to http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/home.php. Does anyone know how to fix this? Hamish59 ( talk) 20:16, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Please see my proposals to speedily rename/merge:
Also my proposal to speedily rename/merge:
There's an AfD for the above recently-created article if anyone wants to contribute; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of rugby union matches between Georgia and Romania -- Bcp67 ( talk) 12:04, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Myself and FruitMonkey ( talk · contribs) have recently listed the article Arthur Gould (rugby union) – the 19th-century Welsh rugby player – at peer review. Gould was a highly notable centre and international captain, think the 19th century equivalent of Brian O'Driscoll or Jean de Villiers. We're looking to take the article to FAC, and would appreciate any feedback. The review can be found at Wikipedia:Peer review/Arthur Gould (rugby union)/archive1. Cheers! - Shudde talk 10:49, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow rugby wikipedians of English language,
while writing the Italian article Graham Dowd I noticed that the English one is a copycat from his profile on allblacks.com which seems to me a blatant copyvio.
Another thing: he, like Steve Gordon, is a player who took part to RWC 1991 in England though never leaving the bench, but I found none in the template New Zealand 1991 RWC squad. I didn't edit it because I don't know if they were left out on purpose. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 22:07, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I've always found it strange/confusing how we display brackets for Sevens tournaments. Losing teams moving onwards for the Plate/Shield? It's bizarre, if you don't already know how it works. I think it could be clearer, and I'm proposing usage of Template:Round8-with play-offs
As an example, here's how the Plate/Cup would look for the recent SA Sevens:
Plate Finals | Plate Semi-finals | Quarterfinals | Semifinals | Finals | |||||||||||||||||||
Fiji | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Samoa | 28 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Fiji | 52 | Samoa | 5 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Kenya | 5 | New Zealand | 19 | ||||||||||||||||||||
New Zealand | 19 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Kenya | 0 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Fiji | 45 | New Zealand | 14 | ||||||||||||||||||||
France | 19 | South Africa | 17 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Argentina | 14 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
France | 7 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
7th | France | 17 | Argentina | 0 | 3rd Place | ||||||||||||||||||
Portugal | 12 | South Africa | 31 | ||||||||||||||||||||
South Africa | 45 | Samoa | 21 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Portugal | 0 | Argentina | 7 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Right now, the template requires the Seventh Place game, but I could modify the template to make it optional, if there is enough support. Thoughts? Grande ( talk) 17:13, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I've reverted a couple of changes this week where an editor has added links to a website called rugbystream.net to articles, e.g. 2014 Six Nations Championship. They look like spam links to me and I can't see any decent reason for adding them to articles - no information cited to them for example. Can you keep an eye out on your watchlists for this sort of stuff - if it looks decent, fair enough - would be grateful for anyone's opinion on whether I'm right here, thanks -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:51, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
A number of lists, including:
Have been nominated for deletion. Thought I'd add this here because more than one list is being nominated at the same time. You can discuss these nominations here. - Shudde talk 22:20, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone have any sources/details about Alfred Pullin (known as "Old Ebor") who wrote about rugby from around 1890 - 1930 in the Yorkshire Post? He was quite famous in his time, but details of his rugby writing (as opposed to his cricket writing, about which quite a lot exists) seem scarce. Any information or sources would be gratefully received. Sarastro1 ( talk) 21:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Why is Flanker (rugby union) the only article we have about a specific position? Are there any plans afoot to write articles on the props, for example? Or the fly-half? – Pee Jay 23:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
I came across the article on Bridgwater & Albion when working through the cleanup list for WikiProject Somerset. I have looked at this projects notability guidelines but was unclear whether a team playing in a UK sixth tier league is notable? If it is, does anyone have access to any reliable sources to improve the article and deal with the "multiple issues" banner at the top of the article as I've not been able to find anything?— Rod talk 12:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
A little bit of a holiday project of mine was drafting and publishing a newsletter for the project. It can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Newsletter/January 2014. I hope everyone gives it a read and leaves any feedback if they can. I won't repeat what I've written in the newsletter, but hopefully a newsletter like this can be published a few times a year, and provides something of value to the community. A shortcut for the newsletter is WP:RUNEWS for those of you that, like me, struggle to remember long project-space names. Happy New Year everyone! – Shudde talk 08:46, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm considering nominating this article for deletion, but wanted to get everyone's thoughts just in case it's hasty. Apart from the obvious problem with the article's name, it's lack of references, and what looks like possible original research or synthesis, I have some others:
It's the last point that I think is most important. Should I take this to AfD, or do we want to see more articles like this? – Shudde talk 11:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
I see no good reason why the article needs to be deleted. Yes magority of the matches are a replicar to the main article; End of year tests, mid year tests, 6 nations, etc, but alot of the matches are not even covered on some of the articles. I'll admit, the non-test matches are bit iffy, but some of them should be alright. I supose the British and Irish Lions non-test (disincluding Barbarians matche) could be removed. I'll also rename the matches named "freindly" to "Test match" to make it correct. Rename the aricle by all means, any suggestions? To refer to the lack of references, technically all the reports to each match is a sources. Rugby.change ( talk) 00:56, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | → | Archive 20 |
Just by way of a heads up, an IP 2.25.193.74 keeps removing sections relating to internationally capped players in various Club articles e.g. Bath. I keep reverting as I spot these, but some more eyes on this might be useful. Hamish59 ( talk) 14:08, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
I think that these two issues "Notable players" and "former internationals" coincide as the main criteria for being a notable player seems to be international caps.
I agree with PeeJay regarding some articles getting very big / wall of names. London Scottish F.C. with their 220 capped players springs to mind. That said, no reason not to put them into a collapsed table: (This is very rough and ready, so please bear with me)
London Scottish have produced more than 220 Scottish international players which is more than any other club.
Notes | Notes | Notes | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
David Bedell-Sivright | Iain Fullarton | Alastair McHarg | one of the many stalwarts of the club | ||
Mike Biggar | Gavin Hastings | 3 World Cups 87, 91, 95 | Iain Morrison | World Cup 95 | |
Al Biggar | Sandy Hinshelwood | Jim Shackleton | |||
Norman Bruce | Simon Holmes | Ian Smith | Joint record Scotland try scorer with 24 tries | ||
Paul Burnell | their most capped player for the club with 52 matches for Scotland (3 World Cups - 91, 95, 99) | Iain Laughland | Arthur Smith | ||
Mike Campbell-Lamerton | Alan Lawson | Frans ten Bos | |||
Damian Cronin | 2 World Cups 91, 95 | Derrick Lee | Rob Wainwright | World Cup 95 | |
Ronnie Eriksson | Kenny Logan | 3 World Cups 95, 99, 03 | Derek White | World Cup 91 | |
Max Evans | 1 World Cup 11 | Bill Maclagan | 1st British Lion Captain 1891 (South Africa) | ||
James Pringle Fisher | David MacMyn |
This format encourages editors to justify the inclusion of each player. I would think that any redlink is probably an indication that said player should not be included (add a commented entry?)
I note that there is nothing in the Style Guide regarding former international players either way. I also agree that "just because diveball does it..." is not a sufficient reason. So, I think we need a debate as to whether they should be included or not. If they are to be included, we need to generate criteria. I quite like the Scarlets approach - 20 caps - though there would be a bias against earlier players (more internationals played these days than, say 100 years ago.
Sorry, Lions beckons, I will finish this later. Hamish59 ( talk) 10:05, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I'd say that this is WP:RU, not WP:FOOTY. Just because one project does it does not mean that a project dedicated to another sport should follow suit. Also in doing this, it makes it harder to apply WP:RU/N as international players in clubs articles might not be able to fit easily into normal text and it is much easier to work out notability if there is a list of international capped players. For example, Tunbridge Wells RFC might be hard to work in their former international players into the main body of text. The C of E God Save the Queen! ( talk) 11:31, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Without wishing to be too radical, as long as each member of the "internationals" list has a reference, that's fine. What's worse is the "notable players" lists which have no inclusion criteria and no references. I will start eliminating these "lists" to the talkpages tomorrow as they are not appropriate without criteria. The Rambling Man ( talk) 22:35, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I actually prefer it the way it is now. It gives the article a bit of "colour" in terms that an average reader would probably find it interesting how many capped Samoans have played for a certain French club. I just wish we could do it for all teams. Yes further down the line it may seem a bit bulky but lets take into account that wikipedia gets upgraded every month or so by that time there may be an easier way to list them all.-- Stemoc ( talk) 01:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
At what point does the old season end and the new season begin? What I mean is: at what point do we consider 2013/14 to be the current season in, for example, the infobox for English Premiership (rugby union). Hamish59 ( talk) 15:17, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
My apologies, people, I did not make myself clear enough. As an example, the infobox for English Premiership (rugby union) shows the Current season or competition: as 2012–13 English Premiership (rugby union). This is not strictly correct as the 12/13 season is now over (so not current). At some point, this will need to change to 2013–14 English Premiership (rugby union). The question is: when does it need to be changed? Hamish59 ( talk) 08:13, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Is there any sourceably correct way to use "Test" or "test" (as in "test match")? We are horribly inconsistent with our capitalisation. – Pee Jay 01:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I assume if you follow this page, you've probably seen this already, but 2013 mid-year rugby union tests is currently at AfD. If you want to take part, the discussion is here. – Pee Jay 16:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Just wondering if someone familiar with refereeing and the laws of the game could have a look at my questions/comments at Talk:Rugby union match officials. Hack ( talk) 00:13, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Discussion about the use of the word Nickname. More opinions would he helpful Gnevin ( talk) 11:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I nominated List of 1888–89 New Zealand Native football team matches as a Featured List nominee in mid-April, and haven't had very many comments. One of the featured delegates has mentioned that the nom has stalled, so I'm here to ask if anyone is willing to give the list a read through and offer their comments at the nomination page ( here)? A few extra set of eyes would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. – Shudde talk 12:56, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I much prefer template {{Infobox rugby union biography}} to {{Infobox rugby biography}}.
The main – and in my opinion, an incredibly important – problem with {{Infobox rugby biography}} is that you have to separate teams using a line break. As soon as the team name is too big to fit into the infobox and wraps to the next line, the problems start. I've come across hundreds of infoboxes where additional line breaks were added between the years/caps/points fields too to ensure the data lines up with a wrapped team name – which might work on the screen of the person that edited that, but the second that someone with a different screen resolution views the page, it might be different again. Now, this isn't just a display issue; it actually presents information inaccurately, which should surely be a big no-no. The only decent solution to this is to ensure that there is definitely no text wrapping going on in the team name, but I don't think it makes much sense to expect editors to always remember this and it is also not overly helpful to newbie editors, who might not understand the significance of this. A smaller by-problem with this is that it also makes the infobox more difficult to read when editing (i.e. to find out which years correspond to which team, appearances and points).
A simple change to the template – as per {{Infobox rugby union biography}} – completely removes this potential issue, since the teams/years/caps/points are all separate fields and, should wrapping occur (even by adding a line-break in), all the related fields will still be correctly displayed next to each other.
Secondly, I also don't really understand why there are so many different sections in {{Infobox rugby biography}} with regards to teams played for. It distinguishes between Provincial/State sides, Super Rugby and Professional clubs. When a player leaves a professional side in the southern hemisphere to join a professional side in the northern hemisphere, there are three separate sections affected; it really should just be one. In the northern hemisphere, the same club sides play in their domestic leagues as in the Heineken Cup. Players' appearances in those competitions aren't reported separately, why should it be for Super Rugby? In fact, for Super Rugby, it's easy to see the Super Rugby appearances anyway, since the teams are different in Super Rugby and domestic competition. If we're trying to homogenise infoboxes to cater for all different leagues, etc., the separate sections should be removed and it should be displayed in a way that can apply to all competitions in all countries, which is handled better by {{Infobox rugby union biography}}, in my opinion.
Thirdly – and this is a really small issue – in South Africa, our rugby tiers are basically international rugby, then Super Rugby, then the provincial tournaments (Currie Cup and Vodacom Cup) and then club rugby. However, the Vodacom Cup tournament is on during the same time as Super Rugby (and therefore mainly young players and reserves play in that). On top of that, the Varsity Cup competition is also going on at the same time which, as the name suggests, is a competition between universities. The universities are club sides, so it's regarded at a lower tier than the Vodacom Cup. Yet, it gets significantly more television and other media coverage, the standard of play is considered higher and some domestic teams would actually send some of their players en masse to go and play for their local university team rather than participate in the Vodacom Cup. Yet, appearances in the Vodacom Cup are regarded first class appearances for their team. For those reasons, a player's participation in the Varsity Cup is a noteworthy part of a player's career and should be listed in the infobox. The ru_amateuryears and ru_amateurclubs fields are ideal for this, but appearances and points fields are missing. This should be easily enough to add into the {{Infobox rugby biography}} template though. TheMightyPeanut ( talk) 08:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
The current {{Infobox rugby biography}} biography – copied and pasted from the actual page, with some details removed. Please note the wrapping:
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The current {{Infobox rugby biography}} biography, cleaned up with nowrap templates all over the place – unnecessary additional maintenance:
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The template changed to use the {{Infobox rugby union biography}} template:
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I honestly think the infobox on the right give a far better general impression of his overall career than the other two. I removed sections like the national representation, both templates show this in a similar layout, I don't think there's any debate there. TheMightyPeanut ( talk) 10:28, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
I prefer the Middle one as well, it can be reduced as someone mentioned above by using 11 instead of 2011 but what i would like ahcanged a bit is the "Caps (points)" section, i thin the term caps is used ONLY for international matches and this is club rugby so it should be replaced with either 'games' or 'matches' and to also change rhe 2nd part to (points)[tries] to list both the points scored by a player and the tries..generally in a team only one or 2 player would score points in terms of goals (flyhalf or their goal kicker), the rest of the team score tries for example if they have a centre that scored 10 tries, its idiotic to write (50) under points when he didn't actually score 50 points but 10 tries. Media will always say how many tries a player scored, not what it amounts too..I also prefer a rugby league format to the points section
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The option to add (Pld/ T/ G/ DG /P) instead of the points section..-- Stemoc ( talk) 12:02, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
Can we go ahead with this? using the Rugby league format for writing the points section atleast. If we look through the articles of some of the Dual codes converts, like Lote Tuqiri, Israel Folau, Sonny Bill Williams, you would realise what importance the addition of (Pld/ T/ G/ DG /P) adds to the article. The last few days i have been going through rugby articles where the number of points scored by players is odd, such as 122 points by winger and as i have mentioned above, most of the rugby fans do not care how much points all the tries scored a rugby player accumulates to. That 122 points could be anything from 24 tries and a conversion or 20 tries and 11 conversions...please we REALLY REALLY need to fix this, as TheMightyPeanut said, it can be "automated".... I now literally add the number of Tries next to articles where a player has scored many tries such as "(260)52t" or "(238)47t-1dg, it makes the template ugly but then I'm DEFINITELY not the only one that wonders how many tries, drop goals, conversions and penalties Dan Carter has scored in his 95 tests and 1,399 points everytime I go to his article...-- Stemoc ( talk) 05:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Can we have the Old heads of this group to come over to that page and discuss the issue at hand. The page has run amok since its FAILED Deletion request and now we have people who don't care much for rugby dictating WHAT should and should not be included..-- Stemoc ( talk) 01:39, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Please can we have some sensible editors get involved? Rugby.change and Stemoc are not engaging in civil discussion and do not appear to understand (or read) any policies. Thanks. -- hippo43 ( talk) 03:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Both of you are making many personal attacks and very little discussion about actual content. No wonder no one wants to get involved in this dispute – it's not productive at all. Here is my advice: I would suggest a proper move proposal (as per WP:RM/CM) – brief comments in a deletion discussion are not enough, it should have been discussed more broadly. There is nothing wrong with a more all encompassing name (in my opinion), as although there are a number of individual series articles (such as 2013 British and Irish Lions tour to Australia), a brief summary (per WP:SUMMARY) of each series - with
at the top of the section – can be added to this article: it wouldn't ruin it, and would reduce the likely-hood of content forking and duplication. Maybe discuss (rather than edit war or attack) a couple of names for the article you think would be appropriate, you don't have to both agree on them. Then start a move discussion (as per WP:RM/CM) with the different potential names (try not to have too many options, maybe three max) - when you do this it is important that you add a note about the discussion on the project talk page, and on the talk pages of any affected articles. That way there will be more input from uninvolved editors, and a broad consensus may be possible. At least with the name sorted the scope of the article may be more specifically defined. - Shudde talk 07:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Any Team that is playing as a TEST team (not an A team or Random Select XV) against any team on tour DESERVE to be LISTED as that match is part of that "touring" team's ITINERARY
That is the only thing i was going for and yet the likes of Hippo and PeeJay kept removing legit matches. The first problems is obviously the title of the article(s), we already agree calling it Summer Internationals and Autumn Internationals is absurd and its neither a competition, nor a tournament, nor a Championship but it is a series of rugby matches played in a certain window which IRB opens up to allow for International games... Lets discuss the name issue at hand before we discuss what goes in those articles in the future and what doesn't...-- Stemoc ( talk) 11:12, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Should we start a new project inviting users and people we may know personally who can provide pictures of rugby players that we can use in their articles? Most of the Rugby related articles lack headshots of players. I tried searching on flickr (with appropriate licences) but none could be uploaded to Wikipedia. If we know someone who has a good collection and is willing to upload them to the "free domain", we could invite them to create an account here or on Commons and upload them there so that they can be cropped and used on player articles. Only about less than a 100 players actually have a real headshot pic or what can be deemed a "headshot". Even most news sites use pics from wikipedia due to its free/appropriate licensing so it would be great if we can get this off the floor. A few articles in the "Good Article" and "Featured" articles on wikipedia could also used some good images. I have been trying to this for years now and I had to go through my old images to find any pic related to these players and even though the pics were of poor quality, I uploaded them because any pic is better than no pic...-- Stemoc ( talk) 02:08, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm proposing a page move on Talk:2008 Wallabies Spring tour, which would also be extended to quite a number of Australian tours from 1989 onwards but I'd appreciate the views of the project first. Thanks. -- Bcp67 ( talk) 14:58, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Apparently, according to the note posted at Talk:Line-out (rugby union)#File:ST vs LOU - 21.jpg to appear as POTD soon, the picture of the day on 26 July 2013 will be of a line-out. There is a full note on the talk page. The article was pretty much unreferenced, and I've added some appropriate links at the bottom of the article. Still no inline citations though. If anyone wants to spend some time giving it a read and making sure it'll all make sense to someone unfamiliar with rugby, then that'd be great. The template for the POTD is located at {{ POTD/2013-07-26}}. I've transcluded it below as well for those that are interested.
Can someone please have a word with User:Beknow about the way they are inputting stats on the Stephen Jones (rugby player) article? For some reason, they seem to think that Jones' stats for Llanelli RFC should be merged with his stats for the Scarlets, which is of course ridiculous since the Scarlets didn't exist until 2003 and they are a separate club from Llanelli RFC. I've tried talking directly to this user as well as making informative edit summaries, but they are apparently too stubborn to see sense. – Pee Jay 02:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi all. As per the section title - does it merit a stand-alone article? Peter aka "every time I watch a game of union I just want to yell out 'don't kick the f*cking ball, run with it!' " aka -- Shirt58 ( talk) 13:28, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
This was already noted to WP Football (for Associação Académica de Coimbra – O.A.F., there is a move discussion at Talk:Coimbra Academic Association regarding the parent student association which has some relation to the Associação Académica de Coimbra rugby union article at Talk:Coimbra Academic Association#Rugby Union. In ictu oculi ( talk) 22:20, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Category:Tom French Cup winners, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 18:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
Hi all,
I asked a question regarding the test numbers in Women's international rugby union#Test Numbers. I figured I'd mention it here, since I get the impression not too many people look there...
(As an aside, why are there different templates for the women's game, Template:wrugbybox and Template:WTournament?)
Grande ( talk) 16:44, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Are Steve Diamond and Steve Diamond (Rugby union) the same person? It seems somewhat implausible that there's two people involved in rugby called Steve Diamond - but then the former there was apparently playing in 1976, while the latter was only born in 1966 (according to the article). But then I'm also surprised that the article for the Sale coach was only created in April, given he's been coaching top level rugby for a decade. Anyway, if they're different people they need better disambiguation and if they're not then one needs deleting as a duplicate. HornetMike ( talk) 10:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Has been ignored for far too long hasn't it? I know it was Hamey's brainchild but I think its about time we updated it a bit atleast..anyone want to volunteer to take the leap? :) -- Stemoc ( talk) 05:13, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Had another look at the selected biographies. Figured I'd sort this out before moving onto the article of the month, selected picture etc. At the moment we have six selected biographies, and they are displayed randomly. The six are:
Of these six. I think the first three are the best. The articles are of good quality. They are up-to-date (which is easy for Gould and Ellison), and they all have a good image. The other three are not so good. They go out of date easy, Mark Hammett doesn't have an image. Are there any suggestions for other articles. Here are a few criteria I can think of:
Does anyone have any suggestions? An Australian, South African or French player would be great. We can have as many biographies as we want. There are no limits, just requires changing one parameter on the Portal:Rugby union page to increase the number. If you spot a good biography you think should be up there please list it here! Thanks. -- Shudde talk 05:37, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello, fellow English-speaking wikipedians, I'd like to point out this -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 19:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
In Andy Mitchells's 2012 book "First Elevens" [1], he states that the Robert Munro who played in the 1871 international was not the person referred to in the Robert Munro (rugby footballer) article. He states that in 1871, there were two pupils of this name at St Andrews University; this one, born 1839, and another, born in 1853. While the 1839 Munro left the university in 1871, the other continued until 1873 during which time he appeared regularly in the university teams. The younger Munro also entered the church, and became a noted antiquary. Not being a rugby minded person, I am reluctant to completely rewrite the article - if the present subject did not play international rugby, his work as a minister is probably not sufficient to warrant keeping a separate article. Does anyone have any thoughts? -- Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 09:13, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I wanted to warn you that I just moved the article from Steve McDowell to its current name for the reason that you can find in the page's chronology. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 16:30, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I created this article, but rugby is not my strong point. I'd be grateful if someone with more expertise could look it over. Emeraude ( talk) 13:21, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed some examples of current season league tables being included within club articles. This doesn't seem appropriate. The table shouldn't be duplicated at all the club articles within the league. Any views? See Hull Ionians article for example and recent edits. Regards. Eldumpo ( talk) 09:02, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
The template {{Infobox rugby union season}} seems to be broken in that the parameter | website = does not show up on page view. For example, if you look at 2013–14 Pro 12, the infobox does not show a link to http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/home.php. Does anyone know how to fix this? Hamish59 ( talk) 20:16, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Please see my proposals to speedily rename/merge:
Also my proposal to speedily rename/merge:
There's an AfD for the above recently-created article if anyone wants to contribute; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of rugby union matches between Georgia and Romania -- Bcp67 ( talk) 12:04, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Myself and FruitMonkey ( talk · contribs) have recently listed the article Arthur Gould (rugby union) – the 19th-century Welsh rugby player – at peer review. Gould was a highly notable centre and international captain, think the 19th century equivalent of Brian O'Driscoll or Jean de Villiers. We're looking to take the article to FAC, and would appreciate any feedback. The review can be found at Wikipedia:Peer review/Arthur Gould (rugby union)/archive1. Cheers! - Shudde talk 10:49, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow rugby wikipedians of English language,
while writing the Italian article Graham Dowd I noticed that the English one is a copycat from his profile on allblacks.com which seems to me a blatant copyvio.
Another thing: he, like Steve Gordon, is a player who took part to RWC 1991 in England though never leaving the bench, but I found none in the template New Zealand 1991 RWC squad. I didn't edit it because I don't know if they were left out on purpose. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 22:07, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I've always found it strange/confusing how we display brackets for Sevens tournaments. Losing teams moving onwards for the Plate/Shield? It's bizarre, if you don't already know how it works. I think it could be clearer, and I'm proposing usage of Template:Round8-with play-offs
As an example, here's how the Plate/Cup would look for the recent SA Sevens:
Plate Finals | Plate Semi-finals | Quarterfinals | Semifinals | Finals | |||||||||||||||||||
Fiji | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Samoa | 28 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Fiji | 52 | Samoa | 5 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Kenya | 5 | New Zealand | 19 | ||||||||||||||||||||
New Zealand | 19 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Kenya | 0 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Fiji | 45 | New Zealand | 14 | ||||||||||||||||||||
France | 19 | South Africa | 17 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Argentina | 14 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
France | 7 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
7th | France | 17 | Argentina | 0 | 3rd Place | ||||||||||||||||||
Portugal | 12 | South Africa | 31 | ||||||||||||||||||||
South Africa | 45 | Samoa | 21 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Portugal | 0 | Argentina | 7 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Right now, the template requires the Seventh Place game, but I could modify the template to make it optional, if there is enough support. Thoughts? Grande ( talk) 17:13, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I've reverted a couple of changes this week where an editor has added links to a website called rugbystream.net to articles, e.g. 2014 Six Nations Championship. They look like spam links to me and I can't see any decent reason for adding them to articles - no information cited to them for example. Can you keep an eye out on your watchlists for this sort of stuff - if it looks decent, fair enough - would be grateful for anyone's opinion on whether I'm right here, thanks -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:51, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
A number of lists, including:
Have been nominated for deletion. Thought I'd add this here because more than one list is being nominated at the same time. You can discuss these nominations here. - Shudde talk 22:20, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone have any sources/details about Alfred Pullin (known as "Old Ebor") who wrote about rugby from around 1890 - 1930 in the Yorkshire Post? He was quite famous in his time, but details of his rugby writing (as opposed to his cricket writing, about which quite a lot exists) seem scarce. Any information or sources would be gratefully received. Sarastro1 ( talk) 21:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Why is Flanker (rugby union) the only article we have about a specific position? Are there any plans afoot to write articles on the props, for example? Or the fly-half? – Pee Jay 23:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
I came across the article on Bridgwater & Albion when working through the cleanup list for WikiProject Somerset. I have looked at this projects notability guidelines but was unclear whether a team playing in a UK sixth tier league is notable? If it is, does anyone have access to any reliable sources to improve the article and deal with the "multiple issues" banner at the top of the article as I've not been able to find anything?— Rod talk 12:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
A little bit of a holiday project of mine was drafting and publishing a newsletter for the project. It can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Newsletter/January 2014. I hope everyone gives it a read and leaves any feedback if they can. I won't repeat what I've written in the newsletter, but hopefully a newsletter like this can be published a few times a year, and provides something of value to the community. A shortcut for the newsletter is WP:RUNEWS for those of you that, like me, struggle to remember long project-space names. Happy New Year everyone! – Shudde talk 08:46, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm considering nominating this article for deletion, but wanted to get everyone's thoughts just in case it's hasty. Apart from the obvious problem with the article's name, it's lack of references, and what looks like possible original research or synthesis, I have some others:
It's the last point that I think is most important. Should I take this to AfD, or do we want to see more articles like this? – Shudde talk 11:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
I see no good reason why the article needs to be deleted. Yes magority of the matches are a replicar to the main article; End of year tests, mid year tests, 6 nations, etc, but alot of the matches are not even covered on some of the articles. I'll admit, the non-test matches are bit iffy, but some of them should be alright. I supose the British and Irish Lions non-test (disincluding Barbarians matche) could be removed. I'll also rename the matches named "freindly" to "Test match" to make it correct. Rename the aricle by all means, any suggestions? To refer to the lack of references, technically all the reports to each match is a sources. Rugby.change ( talk) 00:56, 5 January 2014 (UTC)