This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
As the new year begins, there are a few cases of call sign swaps between stations. In San Francisco, three stations have swapped call signs. Two were easily moved, while I requested an administrator move for KNEW (AM). However, in Cedar Rapids, IA, KKSY and WMT-FM have essentially swapped call signs. Aside from the crude method (merely swapping info between the two pages), is there a more delicate way to move the information between the two pages? -- Fightingirish ( talk) 13:49, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
I think there's a deeper issue here. We see this happening all the time, and there's a great deal of confusion about the scope of articles on particular radio stations that have moved callsigns. Such articles frequently get messy.
I think we actually need a (hopefully brief) guideline. Here are some recommendations to consider:
Comments? The goal is to make it clear whether each article is about a station or about a callsign. If this is kept clear, many problems will be avoided, and fewer moves required. Andrewa ( talk) 02:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Talk:Broadcast license#Global view also seems relevant to this discussion (discussion dormant on the talk page since 2007, although the corresponding tag was only recently added to the article [1]). Andrewa ( talk) 20:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The current Wikipedia:WikiProject Radio Stations#Introduction section suggests writing that the station is Licensed to the suburb of Smallville, USA. This seems very misleading as the license for a radio station is rarely held by a locality. A station is licensed to provide service to a particular locality, but in most cases the license is issued to another entity. I've no particular interest in radio station articles, but this seems like sloppy use of English prepositions. older ≠ wiser 20:55, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
An ex-employee of a station in Thorne, Yorkshire, England has nominated the article of the station they used to work for (and maintained edits here) for deletion. Station is still on the air, but the employee explains they don't want to maintain it any longer because they think it'll go out of date, but I have reminded him about CC3-GFDL which releases the text under those guidelines and other Yorkies in the area will make sure it's not out of date. Just making sure I did hit the right points in my rationale and asking for other assistance, even if we don't have many English radio editors here. Nate • ( chatter) 10:00, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I would propose three changes to the entry for WVOX 1460 AM.
The wikipedia entry for WVOX 1460 AM says the station can be heard "mainly in suburban Westchester County, the Bronx, Queens, the North Shore of Long Island, southern Connecticut and northern New Jersey." What is the source for this claim that the station is heard in Connecticut and New Jersey? The terrestrial broadcast signal is weak. The station is located in the South End of New Rochelle and cannot be heard, during the day at maximum ERP, in the North End of New Rochelle. It is hard to imagine the station has the reached stated in this entry. Regardless, if there is no source, this information should be removed.
The same entry states "Together with its former counterpart, WRTN 93.5 FM (now WVIP), it claimed more than five million live listeners as of 2005." I have seen the literature at the station regarding the 5 million figure. Granted, Mr. O'Shaugnessy is notoriously prone to exaggeration boarding on megalomania but even he does not claim 5 million listeners. He claims that there are 5 million people living and working in the area where the AM and FM signal can be heard. By this standard the broadcast TV networks could claim 350 million viewers for all of their shows. Further, the entry is about WVOX 1460 AM so why even mention a second FM station and then combine claimed listeners for a second station within the WVOX entry? Does any one believe that this tiny 500-watt radio station (122 watts night time) has 5 million listeners? This information on WVIP and 5 million listeners should be removed.
It is true that William O'Shaughnessy was "one of the first 25 people to be inducted into the new New York State Broadcasters Hall of Fame by the New York State Broadcasters Association" and that he was "honored for his long record as a champion of free speech under the First Amendment". and that "A history of the broadcasters' association published in 2005 described O'Shaughnessy as 'happily turn[ing] over the airwaves to their rightful owners, the residents of the influential community he serves.'" What is not mentioned in the article is policy at the station introduced by William O'Shaughnessy in 2011 under which station employees would be fired for allowing callers, guests or host to make a "verbal attack" on "anyone or anything". The term verbal attack was never defined but "anyone or anything" is stated to include any "person, company or entity." Unwilling to sign such a vague agreement that might be used to terminate engineers and other paid staff at the station, three "community hosts" (i.e. unpaid, volunteer hosts) refused to sign the agreement (including me) and their shows were taken off the air and they were banned from being on air at the station in any capacity including host, guest or caller for their refusal to sign the agreement.
A copy of the agreement can be seen here: Whitney Media ProposedAgreement
The nature of this agreement and the subsequent banning of those who did not sign the agreement casts William O'Shaughnessy's commitment to free speech and turning over the airwaves to their rightful owners in a more full context. If the entry is going to so glowingly portray William O'Shaughnessy as a staunch defender of free speech then that same entry ought to make some mention of the current station policy as described in the above linked agreement. Rcox1963 ( talk) 12:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:HighBeam describes a limited opportunity for Wikipedia editors to have access to
HighBeam Research.
—
Wavelength (
talk) 15:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Umm...the lead photo of the project page is of a television transmitting tower (I don't have time at the moment to search Commons for a suitable photo of a radio-transmitting antenna :-)). All the best, Miniapolis ( talk) 13:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi there,
I am wondering whether your project would be interested in the West Austin Antenna Farm article. -- Jerome Potts ( talk) 15:49, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
This was discussed years ago but for some reason is not on the list of official style standards. For templates, which band comes first? What I remember being decided years ago was that A.M. stations come before F.M. stations. Most templates were changed a few years ago after this decision & in most cases, F.M. stations are listed first. I propose a uniform plan in which all stations are listed by band in terms of ascending frequency. For example, in ITU Region 2, A.M. stations by frequency would be on top. The next tier would be shortwave (where applicable, as some shortwave stations ARE aimed at a domestic audience, but not in the U.S.) stations listed by frequency IN MEGAHERTZ. The next tier would be F.M. stations by frequency. The next tier would be the 162MHz weather stations. The 5th tier would be D.A.B. stations, where applicable. Following that would be the callsign rollcall (stations' calls in alphabetical order) and finally, defunct stations in the market, following this pattern, A.M. stations would precede F.M. stations, etc.. In ITU Region 1, Longwave stations by frequency would be the first tier, followed by mediumwave, then shortwave, F.M., then D.A.B., then the name list & finally defunct. Any tier may be taken out where applicable. As someone in ITU Region 2, I do find it imperative that A.M.s precede S.W. which precedes F.M. because we are going not only by frequency but introduction of each broadcast band. The only argument I can see to the contrary is that F.M. is more popular but to that I ask what do we do if F.M. is supplanted in popularity by some other band in the future. After all, A.M. station owners thought (the majority it seems from reading history) that their stations would ALWAYS be the more popular & F.M. would never succeed. An additional argument is that in countries that use callsigns, the A.M. stations are almost always the one with just base callsigns. I.E., no -AM suffix. F.M.s & T.V. stations which came later have to amend their callsigns with the appropriate suffixes if they share the callsign with a sister A.M. station. Mexico, I realize, is an exception to this. Canada has ALL of their F.M. stations with -FM suffixes. I think the same is true about T.V. stations & am not sure about the DAB stations. Another place where this style is reflected is advertising the radios themselves. More times they are still called "AM/FM radio(s)" rather than the other way around. Finally, if we look to our own page, more often than not A.M. comes above F.M. (only once did I see it the other way around). This following Navbox is a sample of what I propose (except I can't get the weather band to show itself, natch!) and would be willing to change every market navbox that I come across to reflect this.
I hope you'll all reaffirm this as was voted on several years ago. Stereorock ( talk) 16:40, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
There's a discussion underway at Talk:List of radio stations in Vermont#History section about the propriety of including defunct stations in a history section at the bottom of the page. Even better, it's a civil discussion with valid points being made by both parties (he says modestly, being one of the parties). I think the page should stay in its current form for now, but I would certainly welcome some more participation in the discussion! Mlaffs ( talk) 01:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps some of you more specialised editors could help this quite detailed and long but unsourced article which generally is only edited by anonIPs. It has been around since 2006. ww2censor ( talk) 14:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
While we are unable to publish schedules, are we allowed to publish a list fo announcers from a station? Caleb Bond ( talk) 03:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
I have been attempting some cleanup on Alaska radio station articles, which in most cases are little more than database entries. These two articles appear to confuse the two stations, which for all I know could broadcast the same signal. I'm not in the listening area and the AERS [ website hasn't been accessible] in quite some time. Furthermore, I haven't had much luck obtaining information through other means. They have been planning a station in my market which I may be interested in supporting, but there are no local contacts that I'm aware of, and other attempts have led to dead ends. Any hints on how to figure this out? RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 00:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the appropriate place to do it, but I would like to submit KRBZ for review Blitzvergnugen ( talk) 14:15, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Wanted to update you all on this: The New York Times (and other sources) are reporting this morning that Nielsen has bought Arbitron for $1.26 billion. If you remember back to 2008, when Nielsen sent Wikipedia a DCMA takedown notice and we lost all the "TV market" templates and several pages. That could happen with the radio templates and pages if OTRS ticket #2008091610055854 is carried over with the sale. I am checking on that. I wanted to make everyone aware of what is going on in case we have to do a mass removal of everything Arbitron like we had to do with everything Nielsen. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:16, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Are there Wikipedia guidelines with respect to RF and Virtual TV channels when referenced in a radio station entry when the TV station is co-owned with the radio station?
The specific entry this involves is found here: WFME (FM) in the first paragraph. Another user deleted the RF channel (the one the TV station broadcasts on as assigned by the FCC) and stated: "RF channels don't matter, and it's not needed for a radio station article" Is that WP's policy?
Technically, in the event a TV station's PSIP fails, the only way to access the channel is through direct-entry of the RF channel number. 70.111.128.88 ( talk) 05:32, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I removed extensive lists of DJ's from the DWRT-FM article. It was unreffed and excessive (IMHO). My edit was reverted. Can I get a second opinion on it? -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 03:12, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
As the new year begins, there are a few cases of call sign swaps between stations. In San Francisco, three stations have swapped call signs. Two were easily moved, while I requested an administrator move for KNEW (AM). However, in Cedar Rapids, IA, KKSY and WMT-FM have essentially swapped call signs. Aside from the crude method (merely swapping info between the two pages), is there a more delicate way to move the information between the two pages? -- Fightingirish ( talk) 13:49, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
I think there's a deeper issue here. We see this happening all the time, and there's a great deal of confusion about the scope of articles on particular radio stations that have moved callsigns. Such articles frequently get messy.
I think we actually need a (hopefully brief) guideline. Here are some recommendations to consider:
Comments? The goal is to make it clear whether each article is about a station or about a callsign. If this is kept clear, many problems will be avoided, and fewer moves required. Andrewa ( talk) 02:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Talk:Broadcast license#Global view also seems relevant to this discussion (discussion dormant on the talk page since 2007, although the corresponding tag was only recently added to the article [1]). Andrewa ( talk) 20:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The current Wikipedia:WikiProject Radio Stations#Introduction section suggests writing that the station is Licensed to the suburb of Smallville, USA. This seems very misleading as the license for a radio station is rarely held by a locality. A station is licensed to provide service to a particular locality, but in most cases the license is issued to another entity. I've no particular interest in radio station articles, but this seems like sloppy use of English prepositions. older ≠ wiser 20:55, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
An ex-employee of a station in Thorne, Yorkshire, England has nominated the article of the station they used to work for (and maintained edits here) for deletion. Station is still on the air, but the employee explains they don't want to maintain it any longer because they think it'll go out of date, but I have reminded him about CC3-GFDL which releases the text under those guidelines and other Yorkies in the area will make sure it's not out of date. Just making sure I did hit the right points in my rationale and asking for other assistance, even if we don't have many English radio editors here. Nate • ( chatter) 10:00, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I would propose three changes to the entry for WVOX 1460 AM.
The wikipedia entry for WVOX 1460 AM says the station can be heard "mainly in suburban Westchester County, the Bronx, Queens, the North Shore of Long Island, southern Connecticut and northern New Jersey." What is the source for this claim that the station is heard in Connecticut and New Jersey? The terrestrial broadcast signal is weak. The station is located in the South End of New Rochelle and cannot be heard, during the day at maximum ERP, in the North End of New Rochelle. It is hard to imagine the station has the reached stated in this entry. Regardless, if there is no source, this information should be removed.
The same entry states "Together with its former counterpart, WRTN 93.5 FM (now WVIP), it claimed more than five million live listeners as of 2005." I have seen the literature at the station regarding the 5 million figure. Granted, Mr. O'Shaugnessy is notoriously prone to exaggeration boarding on megalomania but even he does not claim 5 million listeners. He claims that there are 5 million people living and working in the area where the AM and FM signal can be heard. By this standard the broadcast TV networks could claim 350 million viewers for all of their shows. Further, the entry is about WVOX 1460 AM so why even mention a second FM station and then combine claimed listeners for a second station within the WVOX entry? Does any one believe that this tiny 500-watt radio station (122 watts night time) has 5 million listeners? This information on WVIP and 5 million listeners should be removed.
It is true that William O'Shaughnessy was "one of the first 25 people to be inducted into the new New York State Broadcasters Hall of Fame by the New York State Broadcasters Association" and that he was "honored for his long record as a champion of free speech under the First Amendment". and that "A history of the broadcasters' association published in 2005 described O'Shaughnessy as 'happily turn[ing] over the airwaves to their rightful owners, the residents of the influential community he serves.'" What is not mentioned in the article is policy at the station introduced by William O'Shaughnessy in 2011 under which station employees would be fired for allowing callers, guests or host to make a "verbal attack" on "anyone or anything". The term verbal attack was never defined but "anyone or anything" is stated to include any "person, company or entity." Unwilling to sign such a vague agreement that might be used to terminate engineers and other paid staff at the station, three "community hosts" (i.e. unpaid, volunteer hosts) refused to sign the agreement (including me) and their shows were taken off the air and they were banned from being on air at the station in any capacity including host, guest or caller for their refusal to sign the agreement.
A copy of the agreement can be seen here: Whitney Media ProposedAgreement
The nature of this agreement and the subsequent banning of those who did not sign the agreement casts William O'Shaughnessy's commitment to free speech and turning over the airwaves to their rightful owners in a more full context. If the entry is going to so glowingly portray William O'Shaughnessy as a staunch defender of free speech then that same entry ought to make some mention of the current station policy as described in the above linked agreement. Rcox1963 ( talk) 12:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:HighBeam describes a limited opportunity for Wikipedia editors to have access to
HighBeam Research.
—
Wavelength (
talk) 15:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Umm...the lead photo of the project page is of a television transmitting tower (I don't have time at the moment to search Commons for a suitable photo of a radio-transmitting antenna :-)). All the best, Miniapolis ( talk) 13:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi there,
I am wondering whether your project would be interested in the West Austin Antenna Farm article. -- Jerome Potts ( talk) 15:49, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
This was discussed years ago but for some reason is not on the list of official style standards. For templates, which band comes first? What I remember being decided years ago was that A.M. stations come before F.M. stations. Most templates were changed a few years ago after this decision & in most cases, F.M. stations are listed first. I propose a uniform plan in which all stations are listed by band in terms of ascending frequency. For example, in ITU Region 2, A.M. stations by frequency would be on top. The next tier would be shortwave (where applicable, as some shortwave stations ARE aimed at a domestic audience, but not in the U.S.) stations listed by frequency IN MEGAHERTZ. The next tier would be F.M. stations by frequency. The next tier would be the 162MHz weather stations. The 5th tier would be D.A.B. stations, where applicable. Following that would be the callsign rollcall (stations' calls in alphabetical order) and finally, defunct stations in the market, following this pattern, A.M. stations would precede F.M. stations, etc.. In ITU Region 1, Longwave stations by frequency would be the first tier, followed by mediumwave, then shortwave, F.M., then D.A.B., then the name list & finally defunct. Any tier may be taken out where applicable. As someone in ITU Region 2, I do find it imperative that A.M.s precede S.W. which precedes F.M. because we are going not only by frequency but introduction of each broadcast band. The only argument I can see to the contrary is that F.M. is more popular but to that I ask what do we do if F.M. is supplanted in popularity by some other band in the future. After all, A.M. station owners thought (the majority it seems from reading history) that their stations would ALWAYS be the more popular & F.M. would never succeed. An additional argument is that in countries that use callsigns, the A.M. stations are almost always the one with just base callsigns. I.E., no -AM suffix. F.M.s & T.V. stations which came later have to amend their callsigns with the appropriate suffixes if they share the callsign with a sister A.M. station. Mexico, I realize, is an exception to this. Canada has ALL of their F.M. stations with -FM suffixes. I think the same is true about T.V. stations & am not sure about the DAB stations. Another place where this style is reflected is advertising the radios themselves. More times they are still called "AM/FM radio(s)" rather than the other way around. Finally, if we look to our own page, more often than not A.M. comes above F.M. (only once did I see it the other way around). This following Navbox is a sample of what I propose (except I can't get the weather band to show itself, natch!) and would be willing to change every market navbox that I come across to reflect this.
I hope you'll all reaffirm this as was voted on several years ago. Stereorock ( talk) 16:40, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
There's a discussion underway at Talk:List of radio stations in Vermont#History section about the propriety of including defunct stations in a history section at the bottom of the page. Even better, it's a civil discussion with valid points being made by both parties (he says modestly, being one of the parties). I think the page should stay in its current form for now, but I would certainly welcome some more participation in the discussion! Mlaffs ( talk) 01:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps some of you more specialised editors could help this quite detailed and long but unsourced article which generally is only edited by anonIPs. It has been around since 2006. ww2censor ( talk) 14:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
While we are unable to publish schedules, are we allowed to publish a list fo announcers from a station? Caleb Bond ( talk) 03:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
I have been attempting some cleanup on Alaska radio station articles, which in most cases are little more than database entries. These two articles appear to confuse the two stations, which for all I know could broadcast the same signal. I'm not in the listening area and the AERS [ website hasn't been accessible] in quite some time. Furthermore, I haven't had much luck obtaining information through other means. They have been planning a station in my market which I may be interested in supporting, but there are no local contacts that I'm aware of, and other attempts have led to dead ends. Any hints on how to figure this out? RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 00:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the appropriate place to do it, but I would like to submit KRBZ for review Blitzvergnugen ( talk) 14:15, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Wanted to update you all on this: The New York Times (and other sources) are reporting this morning that Nielsen has bought Arbitron for $1.26 billion. If you remember back to 2008, when Nielsen sent Wikipedia a DCMA takedown notice and we lost all the "TV market" templates and several pages. That could happen with the radio templates and pages if OTRS ticket #2008091610055854 is carried over with the sale. I am checking on that. I wanted to make everyone aware of what is going on in case we have to do a mass removal of everything Arbitron like we had to do with everything Nielsen. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:16, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Are there Wikipedia guidelines with respect to RF and Virtual TV channels when referenced in a radio station entry when the TV station is co-owned with the radio station?
The specific entry this involves is found here: WFME (FM) in the first paragraph. Another user deleted the RF channel (the one the TV station broadcasts on as assigned by the FCC) and stated: "RF channels don't matter, and it's not needed for a radio station article" Is that WP's policy?
Technically, in the event a TV station's PSIP fails, the only way to access the channel is through direct-entry of the RF channel number. 70.111.128.88 ( talk) 05:32, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I removed extensive lists of DJ's from the DWRT-FM article. It was unreffed and excessive (IMHO). My edit was reverted. Can I get a second opinion on it? -- Alan Liefting ( talk - contribs) 03:12, 22 December 2012 (UTC)