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Is this really necessary in articles? I just don't see the point in it. When you click on World Wrestling Federation, obviously it'll take you to the WWE article. If the person is searching for World Wrestling Entertainment, the article should show up in a search because of the link. We're encouraged to refer to WWFE articles from before May 2002 as WWF. While it's only four words, I just don't think they're necessary. 67.175.74.87 04:36, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
As a heads up: many of the shows have no sources. I'm no Ring of Honor expert, so I'm posting this here. If some of the shows aren't very notable, then a prod or AFD should be on them. RobJ1981 21:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed a lot of wrestlers awards are kind of scattered around a bit. I think to be more organized we need to start having WWF/WWE at the top. WCW, NWA-TNA, ect. the major's and the minor's more organized. We should note this more clearly on the project page also. Govvy 02:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I've been being bold and assessing various articles for quality and importance, and I wanted to run my importance criteria for biographic articles by everyone, to make sure we're on the same page. In my opinion, most biographical articles are Low importance (no matter how much we love the individual in question); Mid importance, in my opinion, should be reserved for individuals who've made a special contribution to professional wrestling, either as a superstar of special reknown or as a promoter/booker of special influence (eg. Paul Heyman, Bruno Sammartino, Vincent J. McMahon, etc.); High importance, in my opinion, should be reserved for only those very few individuals who had a formative influence on professional wrestling, without which it would not be what it is today (eg. Vince McMahon, Lou Thesz, Antonio Inoki, Ric Flair, etc.); in my opinion, no biographies can be Top importance, since this is the Pro Wrestling project, and not the Person X project. Does that scheme fit with everybody else's expectations? - Geoffg 17:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Who's with me on getting this deleted? It looks like the "producers" are slapping ads for this every where from myspace to youtube. Here's a sample clip from the movie Youtube.com Promo Clip and Promo Clip 2 and even better the trailer Trailer Kyros 07:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Heh, it makes me laugh a little, the guy is pretty tall. But it doesn't look like any real movie to me and I am all for deleting that page. Govvy 12:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The guy keeps adding the link to the nude modeling Mickie James. Can we do something about him? Govvy 23:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Should a pay per view that never happened be included on a list of pay-per-views. It was located here List of WCW pay-per-view events. I've removed it, but I have a feeling that it's going to be reverted back. Kyros 17:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
My opinion is: even if the title isn't on the line, champions should still be listed. At the PPV itself: the wrestlers are announced as champions during the match. A Wikipedia article shouldn't be ignoring who the champions are, just because the title isn't on the line. Non-title or not: champions should be listed on PPV articles, period. They are champions no matter if the title is on the line. There was a discussion on this before, but no consensus was made. RobJ1981 04:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Include or not include: what does everyone think? Royal Rumble is one of the "big 4" WWE pay per views of the year: WrestleMania, SummerSlam and Survivor Series are the other three. On articles for the other 3 events: there isn't mass debut lists (and there never should be). Royal Rumble is an ever changing battle royal each year, so obviously new people will be in it from year to year. It's cruft listing every new RR wrestler on the articles, since the other event articles don't do that. The only debuts that should be listed on PPV (or other notable events) articles: on-screen debuts, or in-ring debuts... such as Undertaker's 1990 Survivor Series debut. Useless trivia such as "these 11 wrestlers were in their first ever Royal Rumble" belongs on a wrestling wiki, not here. RobJ1981 05:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
What exactly is this? -- Aaru Bui DII 03:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Does this category need to include people who are only "on-air" authority figures (eg. Teddy Long)? I feel like it blurs the line between kayfabe and reality when we mix things up like this. Maybe those kayfabe "executives" need their own category. - Geoffg 08:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Should we delete the whole lot?? Because this is the first result Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Death_Before_Dishonor_(ROH) and I am not impressed. You say you want evidence it was on TV and I gave it. Here it is again [1] and no one seems to care. Everyone thought they where just DVDs, but a list has even been compiled on TV.com. So it's either one or the other in my view, they all need to go back or you should remove the whole lot. Every reference about Ring of Honor. Govvy 10:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need to list the OVW alumni in WWE on the OVW page? I think it's completely useless. -- James Duggan 03:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has once again been listed for deletion. The Mob Rules 09:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
On these pages, there are some serious issues with these long, crufty sections. If someone could check it out and trim it considerably, that would be very helpful. Booshakla 12:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I see these two have appeared (i think we best remove them quick)
I would really appreciate if somebody could help clean up the Davey Andrews page, or at least post other info on him they know of. Thanks! Kris Classic 01:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Now, for the casual fan reading either article, there is little difference between a tag team and a stable. Where is the distinction between the two? Clearly, we know what a tag team is and what a stable is conceptually, but do you consider, say, the Spirit Squad a tag team or a stable? Can a group be both? Are there groupings of wrestlers that are considered neither? Clearly there is a blurriness in the distinction: we have a category for both tag teams and stables without referring to which is which.
I for one like to consider that the difference is as follows: anything referred to as a single entity are considered to be stables. So Rated-RKO is a stable despite (currently) consisting of two members. So is The Hardy Boyz, Voodoo Kin Mafia, the Spirit Squad, the Latin American Exchange. Stables may contain other stables (nWo is a good example, so is DX and NAO). Stables are typically such that they either stand alone or are entirely contained within one stable (so you can't have a group in one stable be part of another without also including the rest of the group). Those who are continually referred to as separate entities are tag teams, so Edge and Christian is a tag team, or Paul London and Brian Kendrick, William Regal and Dave Taylor, and so on. Stables may contain tag teams ( The Brood), and/or take a stable name sometime down the road (from which they are known as a stable). Tag teams may be formed between a stable-affiliated wrestler and a non-affiliated one (X-Pac and Kane) or between two stables (although this is rare as the two stables are likely to merge as a result...). In essence, tag teams are more ad-hoc compared to the more established stable, although a tag team may remain together for a long term and become near-stable (E&C, although E&C is technically part of Team RECK...).
Your thoughts?
kelvSYC 05:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
The thing is that "two-versus-more" doesn't work. From the articles themselves:
From these articles, a tag team does not imply exactly two, while a stable does not imply strictly greater than two. The two are not mutually exclusive terms. In fact, the two articles imply that the two are euphemisms for the same thing - an arbitrary grouping of wrestlers.
Just to back this up, here are a couple of real-world examples of where "two-versus-more" fail miserably in describing such a grouping:
Clearly, the division between a stable and a tag team needs to be better defined, as the project members' assertion of what it is fail the face of real-world counterexamples. I suggest that the ad-hoc vs. single entity divide in order to address this - clearly it may fail ( Edge and Christian, but still they had a stable name prior to WWE), but it should work better than "two-or-more"... unless someone else has more convincing counterexamples...
kelvSYC 07:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree on the assertions. Tag teams may be formed ad-hoc, and stables may have long-term storyline purposes, and that the two terms are not mutually exclusive. However, we have, from D-Generation X: "DX is a tag team (formerly a stable)", which implies that they are. Not to mention that neither article mentions the difference between a stable or a tag team. As a matter of fact, one could argue that the two terms are synonymous. After all, an ad-hoc tag team could well be a stable that forms and breaks itself up in a single night, and a long-term tag-team can be considered as a two-member stable. The point remains that the differences between a tag team and a stable must be made clear to those unfamiliar to professional wrestling, which is where I suggested the "single entity criteria". kelvSYC 07:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
This SmackDown! Sprint thing has gained its own page and appeared on Professional wrestling tournament... but isnt it just an SD version of the beat the clock matches which were on RAw a while back... i just dont think it warrants a page but thats my oppinion what do you guys think? --- Paulley 11:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It is on AfD here. Cheers, -- The Hyb rid 13:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It's amazing where we have WWE Raw, WWE Friday Night SmackDown, but not ECW on Sci-Fi, or WWE Raw, Extreme Championship Wrestling, but not WWE SmackDown!. So we can't even name WWE's three brands consistently - two are the brand names and the third isn't, and two are the brand shows and the third isn't (and two are performed on the same day and the third isn't, but that isn't the point). Maybe we should be a little more consistent in this regard. kelvSYC 07:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I recall that The Score still (up to today) continually refers to SmackDown! without "Friday Night" even after it moved to Fridays, while during its tenure on TSN Raw was referred to from time to time under its original name (both Raw is War and Monday Night Raw). What's more confusing is that the program guide uses Monday Night Raw and Friday Night SmackDown!, while The Score's website uses simply Raw and SmackDown!. I haven't checked the Global affiliate to see if ECW is listed any differently, although I've heard that it's Extreme Championship Wrestling with Joey Styles and Tazz. kelvSYC 14:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, the pages are basically at the brand name. Raw and ECW are definitely under the brand name, but SD seems a different story. The thing with SD is that the SD logo, which is both the brand and show logo, has "Friday Night" in it, where as the Raw and ECW logo doesn't have anything like that in it to reflect night of week, or even network. I'm not sure whether the brand name is just SmackDown, or if it includes "Friday Night" like the logo and show does. James Duggan 04:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, this should be deleted. Just because it's on Impact each week, doesn't make it notable. Category:Professional wrestling tournaments needs to be gone through and the cruft needs to go. I've started on it, but there is still alot to go. Even if a tournament is held more than once, it doesn't necessarily means it's notable either. RobJ1981 00:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
[2] [3] [4] [5]. Whichever has the best and/or most content, should be the place to move many things that get deleted from Wikipedia. RobJ1981 03:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, I'd argue that appearing on Impact each week for a couple of months is pretty notable. After all, that means it was seen by about one or two million people, and it appears that it was well known enough that the nominator and others here immediately recognized what it was. "Cruft" isn't actually a reason for deletion. Note that many television series, for example, have in depth articles about each specific episode. I don't see a huge difference between an article about a specific single television series episode and an article about a continuing story line over five or six episodes from a television series.
However, I will point out that the article as it stands currently is entirely unreferenced. Someone needs to add appropriate references to clean up the article. Dugwiki 21:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
That page is on afd here. More tag team fancruft, yeah. -- The Hyb rid 06:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Many people, myself included, have been going around saying that WP:PW policy is to keep finishers as finishers after they aren't used as such anymore. However, I don't see where this is written, and neither does Paulley. Let's just hold a vote and move it to a subpage after a decision is reached. That way it is official project policy, and we have something to show people when they ask. So, here is my nomination.
I think that any finishing or signature move that a wrestler uses should always be listed under its respective section regardless of how it is used later on. I feel this way because the article is about the wrestler's entire career, not just their present career, and the Finishing and Signature Moves section should reflect that. -- The Hyb rid 13:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Seven days have gone by, so I have copied this discussion and provided an explanation of the policy at WP:PW/FMP. Cheers, -- The Hyb rid 01:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I've been pondering on something that the japanese wiki does on wrestler articles. They have short descriptions under the move if it needs something. Maybe we could use these too, although then we'd have to have a guideline on what could be in it. So we could have:
Etc. This would also help with the Wikipedia guideline to prefer prose over simple lists. The problem of course is the guideline, otherwise someone would want to add something to every move on every page. I guess that would mean notability criteria to the extra info. ↪ Lakes ( Talk) 22:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
There is some cause to infact write "Finishing and signatures moves" in pros rather than in list form.. esspecially if we begin adding more and more info regarding them (like your suggestion above). I know for current wrestlers it would be of no use (due to ever more edits and additions) but for retired and deceased wrestlers that have articles which are less frequently edited it could be used. Some examples of this are Sable, Duane Gill, and Big Daddy (which since has been merged into his career section). Writing in pros would also elimintate the problem cuased in peer reviews regarding the information meaning we wouldnt have to resort to the intext stat boxes (i.e. Konnan) --- Paulley
Do all of the shows really need articles? Considering many were clip shows (with very few, if any new matches), they can't be expanded much past a stub. The template listed below, lists them all... but needs cleaning, in my opinion. Notable ones should be articles still, while the lesser ones such as Super Astros, LiveWire and Mania should only be mentioned on a list page.
-- RobJ1981 05:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
There's been a really big debate as to what counts as a "world title", what counts as a "world title reign", what is deemed verifiable, an independent authority, and so on, down at Talk:Number of World Heavyweight title reigns in professional wrestling. This should be a massive cleanup job, and I've made a few Cliff's notes on it down near the bottom. Clearly, the project should reach a consensus on this issue. kelvSYC 07:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
So what's a Reliable source for match results and the basics of angles and storylines? Kevinbrowning went insane adding the verify tag, and since you're not "supposed" to just delete those something has to be done.
Adding a source after every other sentence would be idiotic, there has to be something we can do.«» bd( talk stalk) 21:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The above recent afd for the Smackdown "Beat the Clock" series and my discussion over there got me thinking about wrestling shows in general and how they compare to other sorts of television series like scripted shows and reality shows.
Other non-wrestling shows on Wikipedia often have episode articles, with one article per episode. Even otherwise mediocre or shows and cancelled shows like Category:Joey (TV series) episodes have episode listings, provided there is a fan of the show dedicated enough to writing the articles.
But, possibly because wrestling shows produce SO many episodes per year (52 episodes per year for RAW and Smackdown, roughly), and the series last so long, the number of articles for episode listings could be unmanagable.
However, what if the episodic content were compacted into either monthly chunks or into main-multiweek plot lines (which often conclude at a PPV every month or two)? Then you could reduce this number of articles to only 10-20 articles per year for each series, making it much easier to maintain.
Basically what I'm thinking is that there should be a way to provide the same episodic-type information for wrestling series that other television series already allow for. It seems odd to not have any episodic information other than Pay per views when other series are able to have virtually complete detail by detail accounts of all their episodes.
Any thoughts? Dugwiki 00:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I think that I have an idea that will give both sides a fair and equal chance. Anyone and everyone who thinks that this is a good idea can get together and write the article for 2006 in user space. Figure out the best way of organizing it, and just do it. Then, move/copy it out into the main space and leave a message here. I'll nominate it for deletion, and we can see what the consensus truly is. Sound good? -- The Hyb rid 22:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Just an fyi, there is currently an afd for the article [Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paparazzi Championship Series Paparazzi Championship Series] that is related to this topic. I put a link to this talk page in case editors in that afd would like to participate.
As far as personally writing wrestling articles, I'm afraid that's probably not going to happen as I don't have good resources for it. Besides which, there are plenty of wrestling project editors who are much better article writers than myself. What I do try and do, though, is promote consistency in how information is handled on Wikipedia, such as in this case wanting some basic consistency in between handling television episode articles that involve either wrestling shows or other types of shows. Dugwiki 23:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I mentioned this at Talk:World Wrestling Entertainment roster, articles on him have been deleted, but maybe it's time for him to have an article. How does David Lagana deserve an article more than him? DeJoseph is also a writer for WWE, and has appeared on TV/PPV many times as "Big Dick Johnson". He was even mocked a couple of time in TNA by the Voodoo Kin Mafia. IMO, this makes him notable (far more than Lagana at least). TJ Spyke 03:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the Lagana article could be moved to afd for the time being. Extensiveness is one thing, but do individual members of a booking staff really warrant their own pages? To me, this should be reserved for those bookers who are known for their work in a particular territory (eg. Eddie Graham, Red Bastien) or have appeared in some other capacity (eg. Jim Cornette, Vince Russo ). Thoughts? Geoff K.
Okay this is bugging me and I don't know about the rest of you but I feel we need to have a vote and a verdict. I don't mind stating that Mickie James posed nude and for what Magazine, but what I do mind is the posting of the link to unprotected page of nude pictures. I can tell you because I have looked, they aren't softcore by any means. I am also pretty sure we don't want wikipedia to be a directory for porn sites. Govvy 21:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Now the verdict is this, should we have links to unprotected pages with nude (hardcore) photo's?
(Yes/No) Vote
I have seen the discussion relating to this, and other that the pictures there is no source. Pictures count as a primary source, so this stuff can't even be mentioned in the article. -- The Hyb rid 23:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Hybrid is correct that photographs are a primary source. However, you can use primary sources in an article provided the article is simply collecting those sources along with secondary sources and not conducting its own analysis and creating original opinions based on those sources. To quote the policy:
"Original research that creates primary sources is not allowed. However, research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and/or secondary sources is, of course, strongly encouraged. All articles on Wikipedia should be based on information collected from published primary and secondary sources. This is not "original research"; it is "source-based research", and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia."
So provided you are only talking about the existence of a photograph, and you are properly citing where and when the photograph was published for verification, you could use the photograph as a source to say "this picture exists, was published here, and here it is." That's all assuming that your link to the image is allowed by copyright, etc.
Now all that being said, there is the independent question of whether posting links to explicit content like nude photos is in good taste or of encyclopedic value. Personally I don't think it is, considering Wikipedia has no parental protections allowing the filtering of this sort of information. I think a better way to go would be to simply say that, for example "so-and-so posed for this-magazine" and then include a footnote with the publication's name and date for verification. A link to the actual image isn't needed at that point. Dugwiki 00:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
They aren't getting the pictures from a magazine. They are getting them from a forum which makes no mention of where the poster got the photos from. There isn't even any proof that it is her and not an imitator in the photos. -- The Hyb rid 23:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I just thought of something, those pictures have obviously been scanned in from the magazine they are possible breaking the copyright law on that website they are on. What is the rules against linking to links that are breaking copyright law? Govvy 10:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
The Hybrid has been going around removing images from various TNA Wrestling articles, citing that they are fair use and therefore in violation of Copyright Law... He seems to be ignoring a mention on every TNA image tag I've seen so far: Total Nonstop Action Wrestling recognizes and accepts the use of their pictures on Wikipedia, as long as they are credited as the source of said photos. However, the terms of the permission do not include third party use. Clint 22:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia policy forbids using fair use images in articles on living persons. It may not violate copyright, but it is still against Wikipedia policy. I stand by my actions. -- The Hyb rid 23:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Even if TNA allows the use of them in Wikipedia? Govvy 12:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It is Wikipedia policy. As long as they are active it is possible to make a free use alternative, so yes, even if TNA allows it. -- The Hyb rid 00:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Due to the recent speedy/afd of various countries wrestlers, I purpose that we start a notability criteria that can be added to WP:BIO as i dont think that professional wrestlers currently fit into any of the current criteria. DXRAW 10:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Please help protect this page from spoilers for another hour and a half. It isn't blatant vandalism, and I am so far over the 3 revert rule I'm considering reporting myself. Help, -- The Hyb rid 00:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I think on move lists, current name of moves should go before past names, and the past names shouldn't be bolded. I think by bolding it, people may assume that the move goes by two names (when I say two names, I mean has two names for the move CURRENTLY), especially if its not in parenthesis like for instance:
Instead of this, I think it should look like this:
Or this:
I think it would help destroy confusion for non editors. Someone please sanction a vote on this. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 01:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
It was just an idea of mine, you don't need to shoot it down like an enemy plane. Also, not that this has anything to do with the topic I brought up, but you are the only one complaining about my signature, as I have had it for weeks now, and it is MUCH shorter than it used to be, and just because you don't like certain colors, doesn't mean others feel the same. My opinion is that your opinion of my signature was on bad faith, and I highly doubt it is a distraction, as people who have seen it have been able to continue the work they do on here. Back to the topic at hand, does anyone else have an opinion as to whether or not my opinion about the finishers (not an opinion about my sig, for if you have one, you can message me directly about it), please speak your mind. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 19:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I also think you should change your sig, as it is quite annoying when trying to read discussions. It is long, and there are ways to shorten it. -- Mikedk9109 (hit me up) SIGN 23:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
This discussion has NOTHING to do with my signature. This really shows how hard working the good folks at WP:PW really are if you rathar discuss my sig rathar than the discussion at hand... -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 01:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
For TNA Roster lists and other things, next to a wrestler's stage name in parenthasis is their real name, I think it is not needed, and just their stage name should be listed? Does any body else agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kris Classic ( talk • contribs) 02:45, 13 January, 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, I think if the real name can be provide it should for that can't be change as easily as making an in-ring alias. Also for all bio's wrestler or not, a real name should be provide, because that should also be the article name. Govvy 11:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
There has been a loose discussion on Talk:WWE Friday Night SmackDown! about whether the exclamation mark should be used throughout the article and as the name of the article itself, including a requested move that had little participation (probably due to it not being added to this project's todo list). I would like to restart that discussion and perhaps follow up with a second request to move the article. The arguments for SmackDown include its use on WWE.com and SmackDown vs. Raw 2007, and per MoS:TM. Arguments for SmackDown! are that it's used in the show itself and how that should supercede other sources of reference. -- Aaru Bui DII 12:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
When WWE use the name SmackDown in a sentence they remove the exclamation mark. They only add the exclamation mark in titling. Govvy 20:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Same thing for RAW - They call it Raw in sentences, and RAW in titling. The name of the show is WWE Friday Night SmackDown!. The page is NOT about the brand, but about the program itsself. The official brand name is SmackDown!. The official brand name of Raw is RAW. So I feel that both spellings (SmackDown and SmackDown!) are acceptable. WWE.com uses SmackDown and Raw to refer to them. They don't really use the ! anymore (except on TV advertisements), so I guess that may give an answer on what to do with the article. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 20:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
How does MoS:TM come into play for you? -- Aaru Bui DII 02:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm requesting protection for the Gene Snitsky page, as several people keep on adding in speculation about what the wrestling sites say concerning the possible move of Snitsky to the ECW brand. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 20:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I put up an AFD on a internet wrestling show that is only getting input from the people who made the article... so any way you think about the article your input would be appreciated Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rocketbusta Radio 49erInOregon 17:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Are all the categories in that, needed? Most champions are listed already list pages for one thing. For another thing: the wrestler articles list what titles they have won as well. In my opinion, all (or most) of these cats should be deleted. Since title holders are listed numerous places already, what's the point of sticking a cat on the wrestler page? Overcategorizing is a problem at Wikipedia: Wikipedia:Overcategorization. Here is a section straight from the main page of the guideline:
List pages exist, so many of the champions categories should be removed. Many of the same people are in grand slam, triple crown, WWE champions and so on. RobJ1981 00:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The Succesion box at the RCA Dome article doesn't make any sense. Right now there is "WrestleMania VIII". This doesn't make sense because there is only one WrestleMania VIII. It happened in Indianapolis at the Hosier Dome (RCA Dome now). It didn't happen in Los Angeles or at Las Vegas. It should be put as WrestleMania VIII|Wrestlemania. This way it makes sense since it will say Wrestlemania which there have been several and it's linked to that spicific Wrestlemania. Kingjeff 02:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
What is the point of this article? -- 202.131.32.49 09:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see much point for the article either, I think that we should incorporate some of the information into the main TNA article then delete that one. Govvy 11:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Music in professional wrestling is up for deletion. Just bringing it to everyone's attention, I don't care either way.«» bd( talk stalk) 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I imagine is the nature of the beast with professional wrestlers, but why must they LIE about having professional football careers or experience???? I have corrected FIVE entries who all had facts based on lies or rumor. Don't these guys know that NFL and CFL (my primary interest) teams, including the ARENA FOOTBALL LEAGUE now, all have detailed ALL TIME ROSTERS that allow quick checking. Jeez, if someone is signed to a training camp contract and then CUT, it doesn't mean they played pro football. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR THIS. Mundster 19:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Wrong-o, dudes. For purposes of official statistics, and I'm sure sundry things like salary and union pension, you have to PLAY IN A REGULAR SEASON game to qualify as a player and go on an all-time roster. Yes, I know wrestling in ENTERTAINMENT ... not very good, in my opinion, but I'm not interested in wrestling, I'm interested in football, especially CANADIAN (CFL) football. You see, it seems lots of people, and seemingly legitimate media sources, get playing in the CFL wrong (lots.) But they mean well, often an obit for an older player. But, it seems to me current professional wrestlers are simple LIARS, and not very good ones at that, because they often lie about the NFL, and there must be a half dozen excellent and complete online NFL all time roster sites. This can be checked in seconds by anyone with half a brain (you do the math, eh!) But my problem, also, is with wikipedia, where users can so easily catagorize lying wrestlers as real players, putting them in the same class as Hall of Famers ... hmmm (note to self: wikipedia users are liars too.) Let's just stop the LYING ... think of the kids, why don't you. Do it for them. Just say NO to lying wrestlers. Mundster 02:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not calling people who disagree with me liars, I am calling people who deliberately continue to promote lies (regarding wrestlers' fictitious pro football careers) ... liars. There is a difference you know. But you are right on one count. I am crazy. Now, what bothers me is that these lies do not stay confined to, say, a wikipedia entry on an allegded football playing wrestler. No, no, no ... people have to use wiki categories to make sure that this false information is spread to every seemingly legitimate source, sometimes even putting said wrestlers name on an entry for a pro football team, as if some palooka that played 3 days in training camp deserves such respect. And if you've done a Google search about such things recently, you'll find every two bit site and its brother rips wikipedia off big time, thus, like a military force multipler, the lie GROWS and GROWS, spreading across the world wide web like some mold in your fridge that started, oh so sublimely, in the salsa jar. Now your lactose free sour cream is ruined. Finally, NO, a guy that can't make it through a training camp with a team doesn't get to say he played for the team. Would you say its OK to boast about having a university degree if you only went to one week of class. I didn't think you think that was right. Thank you. Now, let's you and me pledge, right now, to stamp this deceitful madness out RIGHT NOW. Yes, TESTITFY. I've got your back. (Yes, if you are wondering, salsa mold is so sublime. Try it, and not accidentally.) Mundster 18:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Man, I don't get you guys ... so a wrestler lies, but that is OK? What if he claims to be the first true Nazi president of the USA? Is that no big deal? This has been my mistake ... you see, I approach wikipedia like its an ENCYCLOPEDIA, will all fact entries being VERIFIABLE, and, um, true. The people adding wrestling stuff are, it seems to me, a bunch of fanboys prepared to parrot whatever junk the entertainer (who has a vested interest in LYING to you!) says. My bad. I'll just edit and delete, with extreme prejudice. Mundster 21:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
You see, maybe people who like football (not wrestling) care about this issue. And people who value the truth. Mundster 23:00, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
My point, exactly. Merci beaucoup, masked man. All boys who are not fans, heed these words. Mundster 15:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Lets see, I have five, Lex Luger, The Rock (entertainer), John Layfield, Jon Heidenreich and Brock Lesnar. Now, to restate my concern, I'm not so super bothered by wrestlers lying about having professional football careers that they don't really have (which they may do to promote themselves, or because of some character flaw or defect, I dunno,) as long as this stay confined to, perhaps, their wiki entry. Firstly, what really steams me is when users decided to start cross category references to the untruth. Sometimes I'll open a pro football team's player page, to find a half dozen incorrect entries. Now, I fully understand errors made in the case of older or deceased players. Often the original media citation is in error, they just mean well regarding fond memories. But current wrestlers are using these lies to promote themselves, so they are a lot less sympathetic (if not totally deviod of sympathy.) Secondly, these lies here at wikipedia spread like a virus across the net. For example, in one case a user made an questionable and unsupported claim about a Canadian footballer's ethnicity in the very first line of the wiki entry. I corrected it, but out of curiosity, did a Google search on him later. As you know, wikipedia is copied big time all over the net. Well EIGHT of the first SIXTEEN Google hits for this guy showed, in the lines of the Google link entry, the exact dubious assertion that was in question. Simply, wikipedia had been used to pollute the internet with lies. This has to stop, and can be easily corrected (unlike climate change, which will kill all our children.) Users, especially those who like wrestling, have to be vigilant to ensure that true entries are being posted. Wrestling is very much a "faux" world, as I have been led to believe from the documentary exposes I have seen (the one about the dead Owen Hart ??? was excellent, and his dad was a true CFL player, Stu Hart,) and users have to seperate the fact from the clear advertising and fiction. Mundster 23:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
That is incorrect. Mundster 23:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I have had it. You are what is wrong with wikipedia. Isn't the truth good enough? I saw a TVO discussion on "why the internet sucks" some months back, and the one sterling example of the bright future was wikipedia (I would have thought it was ebay.) So I registered and had some fun adding legitimate stuff, joining the "wikonomy," so to speak. Committing unique information to the internet, adding value to wiki, freely donating my time and expertise for the psychic reward. What do I find ... yahoos, vandals, people with petty agendas. Just like you. Thanks. I'm outta here.
Someone update that on the to do list. Then I can help on what new stuff you want cleaned up. :) Govvy 23:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
can someone help me finish my article on one of my favorite czw wrestlers Nate Webb, before it gets deleted — Preceding unsigned comment added by Extreme Enigma ( talk • contribs) 00:28, 18 January, 2007 (UTC)
This is a weird problem, so bear with me, and it seems to mostly be a problem in WWE.
If a person drops or adds a word to their name should we consider that a name change for the purposes of the list in the infobox? For example Armando Alejandro Estrada's WWE.com profile page recently had the graphic and URL changed to simply Armando Estrada or Shad Gaspard, who started out as Shad Gaspard, then had his graphic/URL changed to just Shad. In both cases they're referred to by both named in arena just to make matters more complicated. Other examples are Gene Snitsky, who dropped the "Gene", and Dave Finlay, who seems to randomly use and not use his first name. Or, to go the other way, Kelly Kelly went a while as just "Kelly" before adding her last name. I'm fairly sure there are other examples, but none are springing to mind.
To me it seems fairly pointless to list these kind of name changes, or even go out of out way to mention them in the article text unless there's a good kayfabe reason (for example, when Estrada added on to his Osama name). «» bd( talk stalk) 01:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Professional wrestling attacks - aerial techniques - double team maneuvers - holds - throws, as well as Backbreaker, Boston crab, Brainbuster, Chokeslam, Cutter, DDT, Doomsday Device, Dropkick, Facebuster, Leg drop, Moonsault, Neckbreaker, Piledriver, Pinfall, Powerbomb, Powerslam, Sharpshooter, Shootig star press, Stunner, Superkick, & Suplex were all put up for deletion because "Absurdly excessive detail. The article is unverifiable original research." There's no way these pages should go. The AFD is linked in the "to do" box«» bd( talk stalk) 18:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Sites like DDTDigest and OwW are being dismissed as fansites because they're self published, as such the entire Pro-wrestling project has been called "suspect". Because of the relative secrecy of "the business" until recently it's not like we can go pull out a wealth of old books on the subject, so what can we do? - «» bd( talk stalk) 22:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
One of the most significant things to come up in the big AfD on Attacks mentioned above, is that video-recordings of pro-wrestling events (TV, PPV, etc.) are primary sources. They can be used to cite examples of maneuvers, or to cite occasions on which a wrestling personality did this or that. This project could definitely make more use of citations for these. That would take care of a lot of the biographical history for wrestlers of the TV era. It's the older stuff that is more difficult to support. - Geoffg 03:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I added a Reference section to Dropkick with a undeniable source and will be doing so to other maneuver pages later, but wanted to get the Project's opinion on the subject. I planned to source the main subject (Such as the basic dropkick) but not variations, unless the Project feels sources for those are needed (I personally don't and would mostly be beyond my source material). Vladamire Steelwolf 22:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Snap Mare (pg 40) Leg Sweep (pg. 42) Collar-And-Elbow Lockup (pg. 43) Headlock (pg. 44) Headlock Takeover (pg. 46) Front Facelock (pg. 48) Shoulder Block (pg. 49) Hip Toss (pg. 50) Leap Frog-Fireman's Carry (pg. 52) Arm Twist (pg. 54) Arm Bar (pg. 55-56) Arm Drag (pg. 57) Top Wristlock (pg. 58) Standing Switch (pg. 60) Hammerlock (pg. 62) Bodyslam (pg. 64) Backdrop (pg. 68) Single-Leg Takedown (pg. 70) Step-Over Toe Hold (pg. 70) Figure-Four Leglock (pg. 72) Abdominal Stretch (pg 74) Pinfall (pg. 76) Side Roll (pg. 78) Atomic Drop (pg. 86) Punch (pg. 88) Kick (pg. 90) Chop (pg. 91) Forearm (pg. 92) Forearm Uppercut/European Uppercut (pg. 94) Ear Clap (pg. 95) Eye Rake Across Ropes (pg. 96) Eye Rip (pg. 97) Thumb to the Throat (pg. 98) Hair Pull (pg. 99) Standard Choke (pg. 100) Choke on the Ropes (pg. 101) In case some else wants to help me out and get this finished quicker. Vladamire Steelwolf 01:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Bam Bam Bigelow tragically passed away today. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Extreme Enigma ( talk • contribs) 21:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | → | Archive 20 |
Is this really necessary in articles? I just don't see the point in it. When you click on World Wrestling Federation, obviously it'll take you to the WWE article. If the person is searching for World Wrestling Entertainment, the article should show up in a search because of the link. We're encouraged to refer to WWFE articles from before May 2002 as WWF. While it's only four words, I just don't think they're necessary. 67.175.74.87 04:36, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
As a heads up: many of the shows have no sources. I'm no Ring of Honor expert, so I'm posting this here. If some of the shows aren't very notable, then a prod or AFD should be on them. RobJ1981 21:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed a lot of wrestlers awards are kind of scattered around a bit. I think to be more organized we need to start having WWF/WWE at the top. WCW, NWA-TNA, ect. the major's and the minor's more organized. We should note this more clearly on the project page also. Govvy 02:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I've been being bold and assessing various articles for quality and importance, and I wanted to run my importance criteria for biographic articles by everyone, to make sure we're on the same page. In my opinion, most biographical articles are Low importance (no matter how much we love the individual in question); Mid importance, in my opinion, should be reserved for individuals who've made a special contribution to professional wrestling, either as a superstar of special reknown or as a promoter/booker of special influence (eg. Paul Heyman, Bruno Sammartino, Vincent J. McMahon, etc.); High importance, in my opinion, should be reserved for only those very few individuals who had a formative influence on professional wrestling, without which it would not be what it is today (eg. Vince McMahon, Lou Thesz, Antonio Inoki, Ric Flair, etc.); in my opinion, no biographies can be Top importance, since this is the Pro Wrestling project, and not the Person X project. Does that scheme fit with everybody else's expectations? - Geoffg 17:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Who's with me on getting this deleted? It looks like the "producers" are slapping ads for this every where from myspace to youtube. Here's a sample clip from the movie Youtube.com Promo Clip and Promo Clip 2 and even better the trailer Trailer Kyros 07:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Heh, it makes me laugh a little, the guy is pretty tall. But it doesn't look like any real movie to me and I am all for deleting that page. Govvy 12:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The guy keeps adding the link to the nude modeling Mickie James. Can we do something about him? Govvy 23:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Should a pay per view that never happened be included on a list of pay-per-views. It was located here List of WCW pay-per-view events. I've removed it, but I have a feeling that it's going to be reverted back. Kyros 17:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
My opinion is: even if the title isn't on the line, champions should still be listed. At the PPV itself: the wrestlers are announced as champions during the match. A Wikipedia article shouldn't be ignoring who the champions are, just because the title isn't on the line. Non-title or not: champions should be listed on PPV articles, period. They are champions no matter if the title is on the line. There was a discussion on this before, but no consensus was made. RobJ1981 04:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Include or not include: what does everyone think? Royal Rumble is one of the "big 4" WWE pay per views of the year: WrestleMania, SummerSlam and Survivor Series are the other three. On articles for the other 3 events: there isn't mass debut lists (and there never should be). Royal Rumble is an ever changing battle royal each year, so obviously new people will be in it from year to year. It's cruft listing every new RR wrestler on the articles, since the other event articles don't do that. The only debuts that should be listed on PPV (or other notable events) articles: on-screen debuts, or in-ring debuts... such as Undertaker's 1990 Survivor Series debut. Useless trivia such as "these 11 wrestlers were in their first ever Royal Rumble" belongs on a wrestling wiki, not here. RobJ1981 05:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
What exactly is this? -- Aaru Bui DII 03:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Does this category need to include people who are only "on-air" authority figures (eg. Teddy Long)? I feel like it blurs the line between kayfabe and reality when we mix things up like this. Maybe those kayfabe "executives" need their own category. - Geoffg 08:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Should we delete the whole lot?? Because this is the first result Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Death_Before_Dishonor_(ROH) and I am not impressed. You say you want evidence it was on TV and I gave it. Here it is again [1] and no one seems to care. Everyone thought they where just DVDs, but a list has even been compiled on TV.com. So it's either one or the other in my view, they all need to go back or you should remove the whole lot. Every reference about Ring of Honor. Govvy 10:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need to list the OVW alumni in WWE on the OVW page? I think it's completely useless. -- James Duggan 03:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has once again been listed for deletion. The Mob Rules 09:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
On these pages, there are some serious issues with these long, crufty sections. If someone could check it out and trim it considerably, that would be very helpful. Booshakla 12:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I see these two have appeared (i think we best remove them quick)
I would really appreciate if somebody could help clean up the Davey Andrews page, or at least post other info on him they know of. Thanks! Kris Classic 01:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Now, for the casual fan reading either article, there is little difference between a tag team and a stable. Where is the distinction between the two? Clearly, we know what a tag team is and what a stable is conceptually, but do you consider, say, the Spirit Squad a tag team or a stable? Can a group be both? Are there groupings of wrestlers that are considered neither? Clearly there is a blurriness in the distinction: we have a category for both tag teams and stables without referring to which is which.
I for one like to consider that the difference is as follows: anything referred to as a single entity are considered to be stables. So Rated-RKO is a stable despite (currently) consisting of two members. So is The Hardy Boyz, Voodoo Kin Mafia, the Spirit Squad, the Latin American Exchange. Stables may contain other stables (nWo is a good example, so is DX and NAO). Stables are typically such that they either stand alone or are entirely contained within one stable (so you can't have a group in one stable be part of another without also including the rest of the group). Those who are continually referred to as separate entities are tag teams, so Edge and Christian is a tag team, or Paul London and Brian Kendrick, William Regal and Dave Taylor, and so on. Stables may contain tag teams ( The Brood), and/or take a stable name sometime down the road (from which they are known as a stable). Tag teams may be formed between a stable-affiliated wrestler and a non-affiliated one (X-Pac and Kane) or between two stables (although this is rare as the two stables are likely to merge as a result...). In essence, tag teams are more ad-hoc compared to the more established stable, although a tag team may remain together for a long term and become near-stable (E&C, although E&C is technically part of Team RECK...).
Your thoughts?
kelvSYC 05:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
The thing is that "two-versus-more" doesn't work. From the articles themselves:
From these articles, a tag team does not imply exactly two, while a stable does not imply strictly greater than two. The two are not mutually exclusive terms. In fact, the two articles imply that the two are euphemisms for the same thing - an arbitrary grouping of wrestlers.
Just to back this up, here are a couple of real-world examples of where "two-versus-more" fail miserably in describing such a grouping:
Clearly, the division between a stable and a tag team needs to be better defined, as the project members' assertion of what it is fail the face of real-world counterexamples. I suggest that the ad-hoc vs. single entity divide in order to address this - clearly it may fail ( Edge and Christian, but still they had a stable name prior to WWE), but it should work better than "two-or-more"... unless someone else has more convincing counterexamples...
kelvSYC 07:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree on the assertions. Tag teams may be formed ad-hoc, and stables may have long-term storyline purposes, and that the two terms are not mutually exclusive. However, we have, from D-Generation X: "DX is a tag team (formerly a stable)", which implies that they are. Not to mention that neither article mentions the difference between a stable or a tag team. As a matter of fact, one could argue that the two terms are synonymous. After all, an ad-hoc tag team could well be a stable that forms and breaks itself up in a single night, and a long-term tag-team can be considered as a two-member stable. The point remains that the differences between a tag team and a stable must be made clear to those unfamiliar to professional wrestling, which is where I suggested the "single entity criteria". kelvSYC 07:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
This SmackDown! Sprint thing has gained its own page and appeared on Professional wrestling tournament... but isnt it just an SD version of the beat the clock matches which were on RAw a while back... i just dont think it warrants a page but thats my oppinion what do you guys think? --- Paulley 11:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It is on AfD here. Cheers, -- The Hyb rid 13:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It's amazing where we have WWE Raw, WWE Friday Night SmackDown, but not ECW on Sci-Fi, or WWE Raw, Extreme Championship Wrestling, but not WWE SmackDown!. So we can't even name WWE's three brands consistently - two are the brand names and the third isn't, and two are the brand shows and the third isn't (and two are performed on the same day and the third isn't, but that isn't the point). Maybe we should be a little more consistent in this regard. kelvSYC 07:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I recall that The Score still (up to today) continually refers to SmackDown! without "Friday Night" even after it moved to Fridays, while during its tenure on TSN Raw was referred to from time to time under its original name (both Raw is War and Monday Night Raw). What's more confusing is that the program guide uses Monday Night Raw and Friday Night SmackDown!, while The Score's website uses simply Raw and SmackDown!. I haven't checked the Global affiliate to see if ECW is listed any differently, although I've heard that it's Extreme Championship Wrestling with Joey Styles and Tazz. kelvSYC 14:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, the pages are basically at the brand name. Raw and ECW are definitely under the brand name, but SD seems a different story. The thing with SD is that the SD logo, which is both the brand and show logo, has "Friday Night" in it, where as the Raw and ECW logo doesn't have anything like that in it to reflect night of week, or even network. I'm not sure whether the brand name is just SmackDown, or if it includes "Friday Night" like the logo and show does. James Duggan 04:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, this should be deleted. Just because it's on Impact each week, doesn't make it notable. Category:Professional wrestling tournaments needs to be gone through and the cruft needs to go. I've started on it, but there is still alot to go. Even if a tournament is held more than once, it doesn't necessarily means it's notable either. RobJ1981 00:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
[2] [3] [4] [5]. Whichever has the best and/or most content, should be the place to move many things that get deleted from Wikipedia. RobJ1981 03:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, I'd argue that appearing on Impact each week for a couple of months is pretty notable. After all, that means it was seen by about one or two million people, and it appears that it was well known enough that the nominator and others here immediately recognized what it was. "Cruft" isn't actually a reason for deletion. Note that many television series, for example, have in depth articles about each specific episode. I don't see a huge difference between an article about a specific single television series episode and an article about a continuing story line over five or six episodes from a television series.
However, I will point out that the article as it stands currently is entirely unreferenced. Someone needs to add appropriate references to clean up the article. Dugwiki 21:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
That page is on afd here. More tag team fancruft, yeah. -- The Hyb rid 06:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Many people, myself included, have been going around saying that WP:PW policy is to keep finishers as finishers after they aren't used as such anymore. However, I don't see where this is written, and neither does Paulley. Let's just hold a vote and move it to a subpage after a decision is reached. That way it is official project policy, and we have something to show people when they ask. So, here is my nomination.
I think that any finishing or signature move that a wrestler uses should always be listed under its respective section regardless of how it is used later on. I feel this way because the article is about the wrestler's entire career, not just their present career, and the Finishing and Signature Moves section should reflect that. -- The Hyb rid 13:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Seven days have gone by, so I have copied this discussion and provided an explanation of the policy at WP:PW/FMP. Cheers, -- The Hyb rid 01:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I've been pondering on something that the japanese wiki does on wrestler articles. They have short descriptions under the move if it needs something. Maybe we could use these too, although then we'd have to have a guideline on what could be in it. So we could have:
Etc. This would also help with the Wikipedia guideline to prefer prose over simple lists. The problem of course is the guideline, otherwise someone would want to add something to every move on every page. I guess that would mean notability criteria to the extra info. ↪ Lakes ( Talk) 22:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
There is some cause to infact write "Finishing and signatures moves" in pros rather than in list form.. esspecially if we begin adding more and more info regarding them (like your suggestion above). I know for current wrestlers it would be of no use (due to ever more edits and additions) but for retired and deceased wrestlers that have articles which are less frequently edited it could be used. Some examples of this are Sable, Duane Gill, and Big Daddy (which since has been merged into his career section). Writing in pros would also elimintate the problem cuased in peer reviews regarding the information meaning we wouldnt have to resort to the intext stat boxes (i.e. Konnan) --- Paulley
Do all of the shows really need articles? Considering many were clip shows (with very few, if any new matches), they can't be expanded much past a stub. The template listed below, lists them all... but needs cleaning, in my opinion. Notable ones should be articles still, while the lesser ones such as Super Astros, LiveWire and Mania should only be mentioned on a list page.
-- RobJ1981 05:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
There's been a really big debate as to what counts as a "world title", what counts as a "world title reign", what is deemed verifiable, an independent authority, and so on, down at Talk:Number of World Heavyweight title reigns in professional wrestling. This should be a massive cleanup job, and I've made a few Cliff's notes on it down near the bottom. Clearly, the project should reach a consensus on this issue. kelvSYC 07:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
So what's a Reliable source for match results and the basics of angles and storylines? Kevinbrowning went insane adding the verify tag, and since you're not "supposed" to just delete those something has to be done.
Adding a source after every other sentence would be idiotic, there has to be something we can do.«» bd( talk stalk) 21:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The above recent afd for the Smackdown "Beat the Clock" series and my discussion over there got me thinking about wrestling shows in general and how they compare to other sorts of television series like scripted shows and reality shows.
Other non-wrestling shows on Wikipedia often have episode articles, with one article per episode. Even otherwise mediocre or shows and cancelled shows like Category:Joey (TV series) episodes have episode listings, provided there is a fan of the show dedicated enough to writing the articles.
But, possibly because wrestling shows produce SO many episodes per year (52 episodes per year for RAW and Smackdown, roughly), and the series last so long, the number of articles for episode listings could be unmanagable.
However, what if the episodic content were compacted into either monthly chunks or into main-multiweek plot lines (which often conclude at a PPV every month or two)? Then you could reduce this number of articles to only 10-20 articles per year for each series, making it much easier to maintain.
Basically what I'm thinking is that there should be a way to provide the same episodic-type information for wrestling series that other television series already allow for. It seems odd to not have any episodic information other than Pay per views when other series are able to have virtually complete detail by detail accounts of all their episodes.
Any thoughts? Dugwiki 00:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I think that I have an idea that will give both sides a fair and equal chance. Anyone and everyone who thinks that this is a good idea can get together and write the article for 2006 in user space. Figure out the best way of organizing it, and just do it. Then, move/copy it out into the main space and leave a message here. I'll nominate it for deletion, and we can see what the consensus truly is. Sound good? -- The Hyb rid 22:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Just an fyi, there is currently an afd for the article [Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paparazzi Championship Series Paparazzi Championship Series] that is related to this topic. I put a link to this talk page in case editors in that afd would like to participate.
As far as personally writing wrestling articles, I'm afraid that's probably not going to happen as I don't have good resources for it. Besides which, there are plenty of wrestling project editors who are much better article writers than myself. What I do try and do, though, is promote consistency in how information is handled on Wikipedia, such as in this case wanting some basic consistency in between handling television episode articles that involve either wrestling shows or other types of shows. Dugwiki 23:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I mentioned this at Talk:World Wrestling Entertainment roster, articles on him have been deleted, but maybe it's time for him to have an article. How does David Lagana deserve an article more than him? DeJoseph is also a writer for WWE, and has appeared on TV/PPV many times as "Big Dick Johnson". He was even mocked a couple of time in TNA by the Voodoo Kin Mafia. IMO, this makes him notable (far more than Lagana at least). TJ Spyke 03:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the Lagana article could be moved to afd for the time being. Extensiveness is one thing, but do individual members of a booking staff really warrant their own pages? To me, this should be reserved for those bookers who are known for their work in a particular territory (eg. Eddie Graham, Red Bastien) or have appeared in some other capacity (eg. Jim Cornette, Vince Russo ). Thoughts? Geoff K.
Okay this is bugging me and I don't know about the rest of you but I feel we need to have a vote and a verdict. I don't mind stating that Mickie James posed nude and for what Magazine, but what I do mind is the posting of the link to unprotected page of nude pictures. I can tell you because I have looked, they aren't softcore by any means. I am also pretty sure we don't want wikipedia to be a directory for porn sites. Govvy 21:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Now the verdict is this, should we have links to unprotected pages with nude (hardcore) photo's?
(Yes/No) Vote
I have seen the discussion relating to this, and other that the pictures there is no source. Pictures count as a primary source, so this stuff can't even be mentioned in the article. -- The Hyb rid 23:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Hybrid is correct that photographs are a primary source. However, you can use primary sources in an article provided the article is simply collecting those sources along with secondary sources and not conducting its own analysis and creating original opinions based on those sources. To quote the policy:
"Original research that creates primary sources is not allowed. However, research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and/or secondary sources is, of course, strongly encouraged. All articles on Wikipedia should be based on information collected from published primary and secondary sources. This is not "original research"; it is "source-based research", and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia."
So provided you are only talking about the existence of a photograph, and you are properly citing where and when the photograph was published for verification, you could use the photograph as a source to say "this picture exists, was published here, and here it is." That's all assuming that your link to the image is allowed by copyright, etc.
Now all that being said, there is the independent question of whether posting links to explicit content like nude photos is in good taste or of encyclopedic value. Personally I don't think it is, considering Wikipedia has no parental protections allowing the filtering of this sort of information. I think a better way to go would be to simply say that, for example "so-and-so posed for this-magazine" and then include a footnote with the publication's name and date for verification. A link to the actual image isn't needed at that point. Dugwiki 00:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
They aren't getting the pictures from a magazine. They are getting them from a forum which makes no mention of where the poster got the photos from. There isn't even any proof that it is her and not an imitator in the photos. -- The Hyb rid 23:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I just thought of something, those pictures have obviously been scanned in from the magazine they are possible breaking the copyright law on that website they are on. What is the rules against linking to links that are breaking copyright law? Govvy 10:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
The Hybrid has been going around removing images from various TNA Wrestling articles, citing that they are fair use and therefore in violation of Copyright Law... He seems to be ignoring a mention on every TNA image tag I've seen so far: Total Nonstop Action Wrestling recognizes and accepts the use of their pictures on Wikipedia, as long as they are credited as the source of said photos. However, the terms of the permission do not include third party use. Clint 22:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia policy forbids using fair use images in articles on living persons. It may not violate copyright, but it is still against Wikipedia policy. I stand by my actions. -- The Hyb rid 23:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Even if TNA allows the use of them in Wikipedia? Govvy 12:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It is Wikipedia policy. As long as they are active it is possible to make a free use alternative, so yes, even if TNA allows it. -- The Hyb rid 00:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Due to the recent speedy/afd of various countries wrestlers, I purpose that we start a notability criteria that can be added to WP:BIO as i dont think that professional wrestlers currently fit into any of the current criteria. DXRAW 10:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Please help protect this page from spoilers for another hour and a half. It isn't blatant vandalism, and I am so far over the 3 revert rule I'm considering reporting myself. Help, -- The Hyb rid 00:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I think on move lists, current name of moves should go before past names, and the past names shouldn't be bolded. I think by bolding it, people may assume that the move goes by two names (when I say two names, I mean has two names for the move CURRENTLY), especially if its not in parenthesis like for instance:
Instead of this, I think it should look like this:
Or this:
I think it would help destroy confusion for non editors. Someone please sanction a vote on this. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 01:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
It was just an idea of mine, you don't need to shoot it down like an enemy plane. Also, not that this has anything to do with the topic I brought up, but you are the only one complaining about my signature, as I have had it for weeks now, and it is MUCH shorter than it used to be, and just because you don't like certain colors, doesn't mean others feel the same. My opinion is that your opinion of my signature was on bad faith, and I highly doubt it is a distraction, as people who have seen it have been able to continue the work they do on here. Back to the topic at hand, does anyone else have an opinion as to whether or not my opinion about the finishers (not an opinion about my sig, for if you have one, you can message me directly about it), please speak your mind. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 19:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I also think you should change your sig, as it is quite annoying when trying to read discussions. It is long, and there are ways to shorten it. -- Mikedk9109 (hit me up) SIGN 23:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
This discussion has NOTHING to do with my signature. This really shows how hard working the good folks at WP:PW really are if you rathar discuss my sig rathar than the discussion at hand... -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 01:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
For TNA Roster lists and other things, next to a wrestler's stage name in parenthasis is their real name, I think it is not needed, and just their stage name should be listed? Does any body else agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kris Classic ( talk • contribs) 02:45, 13 January, 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, I think if the real name can be provide it should for that can't be change as easily as making an in-ring alias. Also for all bio's wrestler or not, a real name should be provide, because that should also be the article name. Govvy 11:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
There has been a loose discussion on Talk:WWE Friday Night SmackDown! about whether the exclamation mark should be used throughout the article and as the name of the article itself, including a requested move that had little participation (probably due to it not being added to this project's todo list). I would like to restart that discussion and perhaps follow up with a second request to move the article. The arguments for SmackDown include its use on WWE.com and SmackDown vs. Raw 2007, and per MoS:TM. Arguments for SmackDown! are that it's used in the show itself and how that should supercede other sources of reference. -- Aaru Bui DII 12:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
When WWE use the name SmackDown in a sentence they remove the exclamation mark. They only add the exclamation mark in titling. Govvy 20:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Same thing for RAW - They call it Raw in sentences, and RAW in titling. The name of the show is WWE Friday Night SmackDown!. The page is NOT about the brand, but about the program itsself. The official brand name is SmackDown!. The official brand name of Raw is RAW. So I feel that both spellings (SmackDown and SmackDown!) are acceptable. WWE.com uses SmackDown and Raw to refer to them. They don't really use the ! anymore (except on TV advertisements), so I guess that may give an answer on what to do with the article. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 20:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
How does MoS:TM come into play for you? -- Aaru Bui DII 02:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm requesting protection for the Gene Snitsky page, as several people keep on adding in speculation about what the wrestling sites say concerning the possible move of Snitsky to the ECW brand. -- Jลмєs Mลxx™ Msg me Contribs 20:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I put up an AFD on a internet wrestling show that is only getting input from the people who made the article... so any way you think about the article your input would be appreciated Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rocketbusta Radio 49erInOregon 17:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Are all the categories in that, needed? Most champions are listed already list pages for one thing. For another thing: the wrestler articles list what titles they have won as well. In my opinion, all (or most) of these cats should be deleted. Since title holders are listed numerous places already, what's the point of sticking a cat on the wrestler page? Overcategorizing is a problem at Wikipedia: Wikipedia:Overcategorization. Here is a section straight from the main page of the guideline:
List pages exist, so many of the champions categories should be removed. Many of the same people are in grand slam, triple crown, WWE champions and so on. RobJ1981 00:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The Succesion box at the RCA Dome article doesn't make any sense. Right now there is "WrestleMania VIII". This doesn't make sense because there is only one WrestleMania VIII. It happened in Indianapolis at the Hosier Dome (RCA Dome now). It didn't happen in Los Angeles or at Las Vegas. It should be put as WrestleMania VIII|Wrestlemania. This way it makes sense since it will say Wrestlemania which there have been several and it's linked to that spicific Wrestlemania. Kingjeff 02:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
What is the point of this article? -- 202.131.32.49 09:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see much point for the article either, I think that we should incorporate some of the information into the main TNA article then delete that one. Govvy 11:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Music in professional wrestling is up for deletion. Just bringing it to everyone's attention, I don't care either way.«» bd( talk stalk) 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I imagine is the nature of the beast with professional wrestlers, but why must they LIE about having professional football careers or experience???? I have corrected FIVE entries who all had facts based on lies or rumor. Don't these guys know that NFL and CFL (my primary interest) teams, including the ARENA FOOTBALL LEAGUE now, all have detailed ALL TIME ROSTERS that allow quick checking. Jeez, if someone is signed to a training camp contract and then CUT, it doesn't mean they played pro football. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR THIS. Mundster 19:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Wrong-o, dudes. For purposes of official statistics, and I'm sure sundry things like salary and union pension, you have to PLAY IN A REGULAR SEASON game to qualify as a player and go on an all-time roster. Yes, I know wrestling in ENTERTAINMENT ... not very good, in my opinion, but I'm not interested in wrestling, I'm interested in football, especially CANADIAN (CFL) football. You see, it seems lots of people, and seemingly legitimate media sources, get playing in the CFL wrong (lots.) But they mean well, often an obit for an older player. But, it seems to me current professional wrestlers are simple LIARS, and not very good ones at that, because they often lie about the NFL, and there must be a half dozen excellent and complete online NFL all time roster sites. This can be checked in seconds by anyone with half a brain (you do the math, eh!) But my problem, also, is with wikipedia, where users can so easily catagorize lying wrestlers as real players, putting them in the same class as Hall of Famers ... hmmm (note to self: wikipedia users are liars too.) Let's just stop the LYING ... think of the kids, why don't you. Do it for them. Just say NO to lying wrestlers. Mundster 02:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not calling people who disagree with me liars, I am calling people who deliberately continue to promote lies (regarding wrestlers' fictitious pro football careers) ... liars. There is a difference you know. But you are right on one count. I am crazy. Now, what bothers me is that these lies do not stay confined to, say, a wikipedia entry on an allegded football playing wrestler. No, no, no ... people have to use wiki categories to make sure that this false information is spread to every seemingly legitimate source, sometimes even putting said wrestlers name on an entry for a pro football team, as if some palooka that played 3 days in training camp deserves such respect. And if you've done a Google search about such things recently, you'll find every two bit site and its brother rips wikipedia off big time, thus, like a military force multipler, the lie GROWS and GROWS, spreading across the world wide web like some mold in your fridge that started, oh so sublimely, in the salsa jar. Now your lactose free sour cream is ruined. Finally, NO, a guy that can't make it through a training camp with a team doesn't get to say he played for the team. Would you say its OK to boast about having a university degree if you only went to one week of class. I didn't think you think that was right. Thank you. Now, let's you and me pledge, right now, to stamp this deceitful madness out RIGHT NOW. Yes, TESTITFY. I've got your back. (Yes, if you are wondering, salsa mold is so sublime. Try it, and not accidentally.) Mundster 18:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Man, I don't get you guys ... so a wrestler lies, but that is OK? What if he claims to be the first true Nazi president of the USA? Is that no big deal? This has been my mistake ... you see, I approach wikipedia like its an ENCYCLOPEDIA, will all fact entries being VERIFIABLE, and, um, true. The people adding wrestling stuff are, it seems to me, a bunch of fanboys prepared to parrot whatever junk the entertainer (who has a vested interest in LYING to you!) says. My bad. I'll just edit and delete, with extreme prejudice. Mundster 21:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
You see, maybe people who like football (not wrestling) care about this issue. And people who value the truth. Mundster 23:00, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
My point, exactly. Merci beaucoup, masked man. All boys who are not fans, heed these words. Mundster 15:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Lets see, I have five, Lex Luger, The Rock (entertainer), John Layfield, Jon Heidenreich and Brock Lesnar. Now, to restate my concern, I'm not so super bothered by wrestlers lying about having professional football careers that they don't really have (which they may do to promote themselves, or because of some character flaw or defect, I dunno,) as long as this stay confined to, perhaps, their wiki entry. Firstly, what really steams me is when users decided to start cross category references to the untruth. Sometimes I'll open a pro football team's player page, to find a half dozen incorrect entries. Now, I fully understand errors made in the case of older or deceased players. Often the original media citation is in error, they just mean well regarding fond memories. But current wrestlers are using these lies to promote themselves, so they are a lot less sympathetic (if not totally deviod of sympathy.) Secondly, these lies here at wikipedia spread like a virus across the net. For example, in one case a user made an questionable and unsupported claim about a Canadian footballer's ethnicity in the very first line of the wiki entry. I corrected it, but out of curiosity, did a Google search on him later. As you know, wikipedia is copied big time all over the net. Well EIGHT of the first SIXTEEN Google hits for this guy showed, in the lines of the Google link entry, the exact dubious assertion that was in question. Simply, wikipedia had been used to pollute the internet with lies. This has to stop, and can be easily corrected (unlike climate change, which will kill all our children.) Users, especially those who like wrestling, have to be vigilant to ensure that true entries are being posted. Wrestling is very much a "faux" world, as I have been led to believe from the documentary exposes I have seen (the one about the dead Owen Hart ??? was excellent, and his dad was a true CFL player, Stu Hart,) and users have to seperate the fact from the clear advertising and fiction. Mundster 23:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
That is incorrect. Mundster 23:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I have had it. You are what is wrong with wikipedia. Isn't the truth good enough? I saw a TVO discussion on "why the internet sucks" some months back, and the one sterling example of the bright future was wikipedia (I would have thought it was ebay.) So I registered and had some fun adding legitimate stuff, joining the "wikonomy," so to speak. Committing unique information to the internet, adding value to wiki, freely donating my time and expertise for the psychic reward. What do I find ... yahoos, vandals, people with petty agendas. Just like you. Thanks. I'm outta here.
Someone update that on the to do list. Then I can help on what new stuff you want cleaned up. :) Govvy 23:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
can someone help me finish my article on one of my favorite czw wrestlers Nate Webb, before it gets deleted — Preceding unsigned comment added by Extreme Enigma ( talk • contribs) 00:28, 18 January, 2007 (UTC)
This is a weird problem, so bear with me, and it seems to mostly be a problem in WWE.
If a person drops or adds a word to their name should we consider that a name change for the purposes of the list in the infobox? For example Armando Alejandro Estrada's WWE.com profile page recently had the graphic and URL changed to simply Armando Estrada or Shad Gaspard, who started out as Shad Gaspard, then had his graphic/URL changed to just Shad. In both cases they're referred to by both named in arena just to make matters more complicated. Other examples are Gene Snitsky, who dropped the "Gene", and Dave Finlay, who seems to randomly use and not use his first name. Or, to go the other way, Kelly Kelly went a while as just "Kelly" before adding her last name. I'm fairly sure there are other examples, but none are springing to mind.
To me it seems fairly pointless to list these kind of name changes, or even go out of out way to mention them in the article text unless there's a good kayfabe reason (for example, when Estrada added on to his Osama name). «» bd( talk stalk) 01:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Professional wrestling attacks - aerial techniques - double team maneuvers - holds - throws, as well as Backbreaker, Boston crab, Brainbuster, Chokeslam, Cutter, DDT, Doomsday Device, Dropkick, Facebuster, Leg drop, Moonsault, Neckbreaker, Piledriver, Pinfall, Powerbomb, Powerslam, Sharpshooter, Shootig star press, Stunner, Superkick, & Suplex were all put up for deletion because "Absurdly excessive detail. The article is unverifiable original research." There's no way these pages should go. The AFD is linked in the "to do" box«» bd( talk stalk) 18:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Sites like DDTDigest and OwW are being dismissed as fansites because they're self published, as such the entire Pro-wrestling project has been called "suspect". Because of the relative secrecy of "the business" until recently it's not like we can go pull out a wealth of old books on the subject, so what can we do? - «» bd( talk stalk) 22:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
One of the most significant things to come up in the big AfD on Attacks mentioned above, is that video-recordings of pro-wrestling events (TV, PPV, etc.) are primary sources. They can be used to cite examples of maneuvers, or to cite occasions on which a wrestling personality did this or that. This project could definitely make more use of citations for these. That would take care of a lot of the biographical history for wrestlers of the TV era. It's the older stuff that is more difficult to support. - Geoffg 03:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I added a Reference section to Dropkick with a undeniable source and will be doing so to other maneuver pages later, but wanted to get the Project's opinion on the subject. I planned to source the main subject (Such as the basic dropkick) but not variations, unless the Project feels sources for those are needed (I personally don't and would mostly be beyond my source material). Vladamire Steelwolf 22:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Snap Mare (pg 40) Leg Sweep (pg. 42) Collar-And-Elbow Lockup (pg. 43) Headlock (pg. 44) Headlock Takeover (pg. 46) Front Facelock (pg. 48) Shoulder Block (pg. 49) Hip Toss (pg. 50) Leap Frog-Fireman's Carry (pg. 52) Arm Twist (pg. 54) Arm Bar (pg. 55-56) Arm Drag (pg. 57) Top Wristlock (pg. 58) Standing Switch (pg. 60) Hammerlock (pg. 62) Bodyslam (pg. 64) Backdrop (pg. 68) Single-Leg Takedown (pg. 70) Step-Over Toe Hold (pg. 70) Figure-Four Leglock (pg. 72) Abdominal Stretch (pg 74) Pinfall (pg. 76) Side Roll (pg. 78) Atomic Drop (pg. 86) Punch (pg. 88) Kick (pg. 90) Chop (pg. 91) Forearm (pg. 92) Forearm Uppercut/European Uppercut (pg. 94) Ear Clap (pg. 95) Eye Rake Across Ropes (pg. 96) Eye Rip (pg. 97) Thumb to the Throat (pg. 98) Hair Pull (pg. 99) Standard Choke (pg. 100) Choke on the Ropes (pg. 101) In case some else wants to help me out and get this finished quicker. Vladamire Steelwolf 01:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Bam Bam Bigelow tragically passed away today. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Extreme Enigma ( talk • contribs) 21:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC).