This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
Some crazy bots are keeping up adding inappropriate interwiki links.
Every time I see this happening I keep on thinking "What the hell is going on here?"
I also brought it up to this page, I hope something can be done. TheBlazikenMaster 15:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information -- Sonic Mew 02:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
The original articles fail WP:N, WP:FICT, and WP:NOT#PLOT. There is no conceivable information at all on real-world character development or impact that these characters had in the real world. At all. hbdragon88 02:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
We still need to find a way to get the images somehow. The lists suck without them. Common, nothing's impossible. I know there is a way, we just haven't found it yet. TheBlazikenMaster 12:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, there must be a way to change the policy so there will be an exception. Pokémon are impossible to describe without the images. TheBlazikenMaster 22:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC) EDIT: And the discussion isn't over until we find a real solution. TheBlazikenMaster 22:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Someone may want to check out this, this, or any other guide to see if they are grouped in a reasonable manner. If the organization allows for a good amount per page, it could work out. TTN 22:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I think I have a solution, maybe we should have some kinda link to the images on the pages. Oh and don't dare say there is no solution, don't be a quitter. WikiProjects are there not so you can give it up, they are there to find a solution to problems. Here are some examples of what I mean:
TheBlazikenMaster 00:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
I remembered something WP:D&D did for its monster articles - they uploaded their own illustrations of each of the monsters. I don't know if it will help in this case, but if it will, that's an avenue you mught want to consider. - Jéské( v^_^v) 09:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, something tells me that this project isn't the only WikiProject having image problems... TheBlazikenMaster 18:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I just don't see what's to benefit from Nintendo suing Wikipedia for using an image of a Pokemon on something like an encyclopedia, it's a neccesary visual aid. This whole debacle almost seems like an irrational fear of lawsuits. Why is it that a place like Bulbapedia can use all the images they need to, but Wikipedia can't? There's no difference between the two other than scope. Toastypk 21:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Recently Sesshomaru moved a headnote, as you can see here. Because it doesn't follow this policy. As you probably know we have many headnotes in sections. So we should maybe help out? TheBlazikenMaster 20:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I knew I was right to revert. But I couldn't explain it correctly, so I have to thank Melsaran to explain more specifically to Sesshomaru's talk page. TheBlazikenMaster 20:20, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on relabeling the articles for Wiki 1.0 inclusion. Many minor articles were tagged as "Top Importance" while many of the main characters weren't even labeled. Feel free to jump in or give advice on which articles should be what priority. I figure main characters and the Pokemon, Pokemon Anime, and Pokemon Games articles be top priority, with the individual games, supporting characters, and some movies being high priority. Towns, minor movies, whatever else being mid priority. Spigot Map 01:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Have fun! - Jéské( v^_^v) 03:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Have your opinions here. All your votes or comments should be made there. No more edits should be made to this section. TheBlazikenMaster 20:48, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Currently, there is a new user readding a bunch of crap to the Bulbasaur article. If people can help, that would be nice. TTN 16:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Honestly, we have a number consensus to remove the crap, regardless of what he thinks, so that should be enough. TTN 15:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
You do not think that we should make the articles as informative as we can then? I think your long term projection of what is Wikipedia very disappointing, I encourage you to take on board the outlook that, after reading a Wikipedia article, one would be as informed as having trawled over many manhy other places for information, thankfully untouched by confusion of many points of view, personally put forward, and the lack of structure and value (cites) in the information presented. "Not as beneficial to know about", I'm sorry but that sounds like the Chinese government :) "The general reader, not the fan" - have you looked at some of the chemistry aticles lately? I think a general reader deseverves to be able to choose to read more information than the revision you were reverting to has available to them. Exactly how much should be the debate, not citing guidance to re-inforce your view that your version is the only acceptable one.-- Barnyard animals 20:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Short version: Sess and BYA, you're wrong.
Long version: Talk:Bulbasaur#Current problems
I probably won't be around to pursue this further, but basically none of the problems that got this deFAed, then deGAed, then merged the first time, have yet been solved. The article is still incomplete lists of trivial appearances, bad writing, bad organization, and no sources. Making the incomplete lists of trivial appearances include even more trivial appearances (or non-appearances) doesn't fix that. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 05:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
WP:FICT might be a policy, or a guideline, or a strawberry tart. Who cares? It's a good idea.
Basically, the problem is that notability isn't established, which is a highfalutin' Wikipedia way of saying we have no sources for this article. We still don't. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 10:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Should we just go ahead and redirect this and Charizard already? Both of them lack any assertion of real world notability, and there are only a small number of actual users that would defend them. While we're on that, does Mewtwo have anything to establish notability, and is the Deoxys NASA promotion enough to warrant the article? TTN 18:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm talking about Jabba the Hutt, Jason Voorhees, Padmé Amidala, Felix the Cat, and Palpatine. Link is a pretty bad FA, so it is not a good example. Even then, it still has actual information detailing how the character was created, developed, and received. It doesn't assert notability by having trivial articles with "...Mario, Link, and *other Nintendo character". There is not one reference for Bulbasaur that has anything from the creators, a professional reviewer (not some writer making a joke or just referencing some major pop-culture icon), or anything of that nature. That is why we need to have standards (or "political bullshit" as you're calling it). TTN 18:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
If You're having problems agreeing, it's time to invoke the WP:IGNORE policy and focus on improving the articles, even if they may not seem notable, or whatever. The general spirit of Wikipedia has always been to be a free encyclopedia, and while I agree that not all articles are notable, this hard-nosed use to policies and guidelines seems to be doing more and more harm to wikipedia's articles. I've seen it in various places, mostly in places where the article has an extremely low interest rank (For example, Pregnancy fetishism). It's really sad to see it's managed to reach here too, and frankly, the merging of all the Pokemon into short lists was a bad move.
Now, I'm not saying, lets go be wiki-tards and have articles about every topic every thought about, including your pet dog and the miles on your car, but in cases like this, where the beat down of these rules are harming what makes Wikipedia unique and interesting. It's just a suggestion, but I think it's food for thought. -- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 01:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
OK, let's take a look at the sources that provide real world information in both articles. As you can see, Link gets its information from the creators, while Bulbasaur gets it from half-assed articles that aren't meant to provide anything that would actually be included in something like this. If you cannot find information comparable to that, you have no case. Why exactly do we want to list some random Spanish voice actor? This is the English Wikipedia, so unless we're going to list them all ( WP:NOT#IINFO), it has no relevance. Only the English and the original voice actors are relevant.
You say that "the problem won't go away" by ignoring it. So what? Why is it so important to you that this article doesn't exist? Surely the encyclopedia would benefit if we stopped arguing about this? We'd all be able to invest our time in more productive persuits. We've spent I don't know how much time discussing this and we've got precisely nowhere. What's the point? What harm is Bulbasaur doing to Wikipedia, exactly? It's for situations like this that WP:IAR was created: when the rules prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. This is certainly preventing us from improving the encyclopedia, for we can't both discuss and write articles. Regards, — Celestianpower háblame 17:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Given that this this discussion is going nowhere really, I'll again ask if the Bulbasaur article is recreated, what argument will sustain it in an AfD? WP:IAR will not, and that has been the only argument brought up in favor of creating the article. So long as WP:FICT is unsatisfied, the result will be delete or merge. If no solid reason can be given to satisfy WP:FICT, then there's really no purpose in continuing this discussion besides making a point. We all have better things to do than sit in this endless argument. Sephiroth BCR ( Converse) 06:02, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Please stop with the links to arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. It's just an essay, not even a guideline, and its content is certainly not universally accepted. Please, by all means, take it to AfD and see what they say, but otherwise, leave out the links to essays. It really doesn't help. Regards, — Celestianpower háblame 11:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree that watching large amounts of articles can be difficult, but I cannot, for the life of me, see why someone cannot create a wikibot designed to do that for you; for example, it could email you the list of changes at the end of the day, or perhaps create a special watch page for you that just lists changes to these articles.
Yes, sometimes articles go for weeks at a time without anyone removing vandalism, but that will, and does, happen with all articles that are not watched much. For example, just the other day I removed some from Ace the Bat-Hound. I wasn't watching the article, I just happen to be passing through.
If you really feel that this is a major problem with these articles, ask someone who's skilled in wiki-code to create a wikibot for this matter. -- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 04:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I might not be part of this discussion, but I'm sick of reading it. So I brought this article to discussion. Policies/essays arguments won't solve anything, so this is the best way to stop the discussion. I know we're all sick of this long discussion. Once the discussion is finished, we will start discussing something new, I promise. Charizard needs the same attention as Bulbasaur got too much of. TheBlazikenMaster 22:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It might have gotten lost somewhere in all the chatter, but Bulbasaur still sucks. I started writing another long post about why, but got distracted by a combination of new music and the same old damned problems with the article. If you'd like to see what I did write, see Talk:Bulbasaur#Attention: Blah blah blah (Problems mark 2). Even if you don't care about Bulbasaur, check it out: I wrote a haiku. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 15:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay. Quick review, don't expect this to get everything. (Looking at these articles is sort of depressing.)
There's probably a bunch more but that's a start. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 00:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Apparently, BA left a few days ago, so is everybody up for redirecting now? TTN 12:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
It's been months since I chimed in here last, and I haven't educated myself on this matter, but I just came up with an idea that's either so stupid it'll work, or just stupid and worthy of mocking. Why not just revert back to the version that passed FA? The Hybrid T/ C 23:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I know how to merge articles for a single pokémon, but I don't have a clue how to merge this. Should I mark it for AfD? I'm really confused how to merge this. TheBlazikenMaster 19:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Why are there not any pictures of the Pokemon anymore? Wouldn't pictures be increcibly useful to someone who wants to get a general idea of, say, what a Pokemon looks like? I'm guessing that they were removed for legal reasons, right? -- Phantom Kirby 20:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
...And Betacommand just killed them from the List of Elite Four members. Good for him. I did think it was kind of excessive to have a huge image for, say, Bertha, when the writing only consisted of a paragraph of information. Speaking of which, the infoboxes make the sections way too long. Should they be removed? hbdragon88 21:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Yet another problem for this project...the wikiball (which the project uses a lot) got deleted off the Wikimedia Commons as a copyvio. [1]) The image has NOT been orphaned as of writing. Checkusage Fun Pika 23:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I had uploaded it under Image:Pokeprojectsymbol.PNG but it wouldn't upload right after 2 tries. I am G7ing it. Fun Pika 01:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
It could always be claimed that the image, is, in fact, a parody of the Master ball, which, IIRC, is purple and white, with an 'm' on it. (thus the wikiball has the 'm' turned upside down). According to US law, it's a work of it's own, and can be copyrighted or released into public domain, etc. Forgive me if this has ready been stated, or such. I'm not really sure if this holds up to wikimedia's copyright rules, but that all I can suggest right now. -- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 04:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The Wikiball is back! :D Fun Pika 18:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I still am disappointed in missing the nomination on the article about Ash's mother, damn it. I wasn't even noted here. Please people use the noticeboard, I'm sick of losing important Pokémon-related nominations. I could have added my opinion on Ash's mother, but did NEVER get the chance, because I wasn't warned or anything. Not on this WikiProject. Please at least let us know if there is something up for deletion.
I would have wanted the article about Ash's mother to be a redirect, I couldn't do anything, since I wasn't told about the nomination about Ash's mother. Well, I added a recent nomination. But I was THAT close in missing the nomination on Bulbapedia, when there is a nomination regarding something pokémon related, use the notice board, please. I can't get over it for not having be able to know about the nomination of Ash's mother before it was too late. TheBlazikenMaster 17:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Uh, what nomination? The deletion log shows an AFD debate that never existed. And, if I remember correctly, it was only a redirect to the main Ash Ketchum article, so there wasn't much that was deleted. I have contacted Anthony.bradbury about it, though. hbdragon88 18:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I've probably helped quite a few people but also frustrated quite a few people with my attitude, and for that I am sorry. I hope that you all continue editing Wikipedia and enjoy doing so, and keep up the good work. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you guys know I noticed that this article has been created. I won't do anything to it, instead I wanna ask more of an expert on the policies what to do about it. Discuss. TheBlazikenMaster 17:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I was just wondering why all the Pokemon are jammed into huge lists now, rather than having their proper, individual pages.
They are far more documented and notable than a vast plethora of our other articles and could be comprehensively defended in a delete dispute. So what happened?
-- Tefalstar 17:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
If we were to actually enforce policy, we'd probably wipe out at least a tenth of the encyclopedia (see my userpage for details). There is just so much that consists of solely of plot elements. The question I have is: yes, it's a list, but a list looks little better than an individual article. That is one of the reasons why my involvement here is to the video game articles, instead of the species ones. I am proud of my revamping of the Colosseum plot and the rework of the changes section in Emerald. hbdragon88 ( talk) 01:35, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Click here, and reply to that section. And do all you can to clean it up. See the talk page for more info. TheBlazikenMaster ( talk) 00:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
NOTE: This is simply a direction to another discussion. Please discuss this on the proper place. Because there is no need or point of discussing the exact same thing on two places.
No Pokemon articles have ever been featured? I thought I quite distinctly remembered Bulbasaur being featured at one point... does nobody else? Or has something occured since to undo its status? 76.10.156.22 ( talk) 05:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey guys, Pikachu is up for Good Article reassessment again... help would be appreciated! - Malkinann ( talk) 00:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I think that we should, judging from the fact that he isn't even a registered user, doesn't have any contributions, and, well, isn't a registered user. Someone must have put his name on there as a joke or something. ♠ ♦ ♣ ♥ 19:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Click here to join the discussion. TheBlazikenMaster ( talk) 09:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I decided I'd create a userbox for people who sympathize with (but do or will not join) the PCP. Tell me what you think.
This user sympathizes with (but is not part of) WikiProject Pokémon. |
- Jéské ( Blah v^_^v) 00:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Back from a wikibreak and checking. - Warthog Demon 04:56, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I thought members of this project might be interested in the current work on the Pokémon Master article, and the current discussion on merging it into the Pokemon Trainer article. As you can see, the current discussion on the talk page has been limited to only a few editors including myself, and so I thought this article could use more attention from especially interested editors TheBilly ( talk) 05:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
On the list of good articles on the Main project page, it says that there are like seven or something "good articles", including Pikachu, Golduck, Mewtwo and a few others. However, on the official tally right below that "good article list", it says that there are only 2 "good" articles. I have looked up at least one of them, and it had its Good Article status revoked. It was once a good article, but now it isn't. (the Pikachu Article) Should we include these on a new list, or simply remove them from the old list? -- Superpika66 ( talk) 15:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC) (PS sorry, I forgot to sign in)
I am trying to get Pokémon Yellow moved to it's correct title of Pokémon Yellow: Special Pikachu Edition (see the talk page for proof that this is the correct name of the game). So please express your support for the move since the articles should be as accurate as possible, starting with the titles of articles. TJ Spyke 23:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Why is the current format, which is:
is used in the articles about the actual Pokemon? I understand this is a holdout from Bulbapedia. Yet, I find the format to be somewhat unclear.
The English and Japanese names ought to be separated so that they need to be identified.
I support this format:
It puts as little as possible within the nihongo template and clearly identifies the actual Japanese name according to the format of the nihongo template.
Of course if the name is the same in the Japanese and English versions, the following ought to be used:
Let's see... 1. As I have said earlier, Pokemon names are written as "foreign" type names. There is no kanji used, and the katakana script, usually used for "foreign" words, is always used to write Pokemon names. 2. I don't see how separating the Japanese names into separate clauses violates this. The accounts are meant to be written for everyone, yes. But they are also meant to be comprehensive. The Japanese names are more important than the other foreign names because those Japanese names are the original names. I argue that having a separate clause does not focus a significant amount of attention on the Japanese name itself as opposed to the English name. 3. I'll use "Ghos" as an example since I know from seeing the Japanese intro that the official name, as written in English characters, is "Ghos." - Ghos is the actual name, ゴース is "Ghos" written in katakana, and "Gōsu" is how "ゴース" would be transliterated in Hepburn romanization. BUT "Ghos" is the original name. The only reason we use MOS template with Pokemon articles is because a Japanese group created the characters. The names themselves are not really "Japanese." 4. There has to be an official guide book with each of the Pokemon names written in roman characters. I do not believe that it matters "Unless there's good evidence that a Pokemon's japanese name represents an English word (or french, or etc)" - If the official guidebook or source says the name is "Ghos" (as written in roman characters), that is the name.
Now, if there is a discrepancy between official Japanese sources in terms of the spelling of the name, we would have to determine which source is to be used.
This has to do with the MOS, so I will later post this to the MOS as well. WhisperToMe ( talk) 19:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
Some crazy bots are keeping up adding inappropriate interwiki links.
Every time I see this happening I keep on thinking "What the hell is going on here?"
I also brought it up to this page, I hope something can be done. TheBlazikenMaster 15:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information -- Sonic Mew 02:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
The original articles fail WP:N, WP:FICT, and WP:NOT#PLOT. There is no conceivable information at all on real-world character development or impact that these characters had in the real world. At all. hbdragon88 02:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
We still need to find a way to get the images somehow. The lists suck without them. Common, nothing's impossible. I know there is a way, we just haven't found it yet. TheBlazikenMaster 12:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, there must be a way to change the policy so there will be an exception. Pokémon are impossible to describe without the images. TheBlazikenMaster 22:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC) EDIT: And the discussion isn't over until we find a real solution. TheBlazikenMaster 22:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Someone may want to check out this, this, or any other guide to see if they are grouped in a reasonable manner. If the organization allows for a good amount per page, it could work out. TTN 22:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I think I have a solution, maybe we should have some kinda link to the images on the pages. Oh and don't dare say there is no solution, don't be a quitter. WikiProjects are there not so you can give it up, they are there to find a solution to problems. Here are some examples of what I mean:
TheBlazikenMaster 00:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
I remembered something WP:D&D did for its monster articles - they uploaded their own illustrations of each of the monsters. I don't know if it will help in this case, but if it will, that's an avenue you mught want to consider. - Jéské( v^_^v) 09:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, something tells me that this project isn't the only WikiProject having image problems... TheBlazikenMaster 18:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I just don't see what's to benefit from Nintendo suing Wikipedia for using an image of a Pokemon on something like an encyclopedia, it's a neccesary visual aid. This whole debacle almost seems like an irrational fear of lawsuits. Why is it that a place like Bulbapedia can use all the images they need to, but Wikipedia can't? There's no difference between the two other than scope. Toastypk 21:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Recently Sesshomaru moved a headnote, as you can see here. Because it doesn't follow this policy. As you probably know we have many headnotes in sections. So we should maybe help out? TheBlazikenMaster 20:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I knew I was right to revert. But I couldn't explain it correctly, so I have to thank Melsaran to explain more specifically to Sesshomaru's talk page. TheBlazikenMaster 20:20, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on relabeling the articles for Wiki 1.0 inclusion. Many minor articles were tagged as "Top Importance" while many of the main characters weren't even labeled. Feel free to jump in or give advice on which articles should be what priority. I figure main characters and the Pokemon, Pokemon Anime, and Pokemon Games articles be top priority, with the individual games, supporting characters, and some movies being high priority. Towns, minor movies, whatever else being mid priority. Spigot Map 01:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Have fun! - Jéské( v^_^v) 03:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Have your opinions here. All your votes or comments should be made there. No more edits should be made to this section. TheBlazikenMaster 20:48, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Currently, there is a new user readding a bunch of crap to the Bulbasaur article. If people can help, that would be nice. TTN 16:22, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Honestly, we have a number consensus to remove the crap, regardless of what he thinks, so that should be enough. TTN 15:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
You do not think that we should make the articles as informative as we can then? I think your long term projection of what is Wikipedia very disappointing, I encourage you to take on board the outlook that, after reading a Wikipedia article, one would be as informed as having trawled over many manhy other places for information, thankfully untouched by confusion of many points of view, personally put forward, and the lack of structure and value (cites) in the information presented. "Not as beneficial to know about", I'm sorry but that sounds like the Chinese government :) "The general reader, not the fan" - have you looked at some of the chemistry aticles lately? I think a general reader deseverves to be able to choose to read more information than the revision you were reverting to has available to them. Exactly how much should be the debate, not citing guidance to re-inforce your view that your version is the only acceptable one.-- Barnyard animals 20:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Short version: Sess and BYA, you're wrong.
Long version: Talk:Bulbasaur#Current problems
I probably won't be around to pursue this further, but basically none of the problems that got this deFAed, then deGAed, then merged the first time, have yet been solved. The article is still incomplete lists of trivial appearances, bad writing, bad organization, and no sources. Making the incomplete lists of trivial appearances include even more trivial appearances (or non-appearances) doesn't fix that. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 05:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
WP:FICT might be a policy, or a guideline, or a strawberry tart. Who cares? It's a good idea.
Basically, the problem is that notability isn't established, which is a highfalutin' Wikipedia way of saying we have no sources for this article. We still don't. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 10:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Should we just go ahead and redirect this and Charizard already? Both of them lack any assertion of real world notability, and there are only a small number of actual users that would defend them. While we're on that, does Mewtwo have anything to establish notability, and is the Deoxys NASA promotion enough to warrant the article? TTN 18:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm talking about Jabba the Hutt, Jason Voorhees, Padmé Amidala, Felix the Cat, and Palpatine. Link is a pretty bad FA, so it is not a good example. Even then, it still has actual information detailing how the character was created, developed, and received. It doesn't assert notability by having trivial articles with "...Mario, Link, and *other Nintendo character". There is not one reference for Bulbasaur that has anything from the creators, a professional reviewer (not some writer making a joke or just referencing some major pop-culture icon), or anything of that nature. That is why we need to have standards (or "political bullshit" as you're calling it). TTN 18:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
If You're having problems agreeing, it's time to invoke the WP:IGNORE policy and focus on improving the articles, even if they may not seem notable, or whatever. The general spirit of Wikipedia has always been to be a free encyclopedia, and while I agree that not all articles are notable, this hard-nosed use to policies and guidelines seems to be doing more and more harm to wikipedia's articles. I've seen it in various places, mostly in places where the article has an extremely low interest rank (For example, Pregnancy fetishism). It's really sad to see it's managed to reach here too, and frankly, the merging of all the Pokemon into short lists was a bad move.
Now, I'm not saying, lets go be wiki-tards and have articles about every topic every thought about, including your pet dog and the miles on your car, but in cases like this, where the beat down of these rules are harming what makes Wikipedia unique and interesting. It's just a suggestion, but I think it's food for thought. -- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 01:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
OK, let's take a look at the sources that provide real world information in both articles. As you can see, Link gets its information from the creators, while Bulbasaur gets it from half-assed articles that aren't meant to provide anything that would actually be included in something like this. If you cannot find information comparable to that, you have no case. Why exactly do we want to list some random Spanish voice actor? This is the English Wikipedia, so unless we're going to list them all ( WP:NOT#IINFO), it has no relevance. Only the English and the original voice actors are relevant.
You say that "the problem won't go away" by ignoring it. So what? Why is it so important to you that this article doesn't exist? Surely the encyclopedia would benefit if we stopped arguing about this? We'd all be able to invest our time in more productive persuits. We've spent I don't know how much time discussing this and we've got precisely nowhere. What's the point? What harm is Bulbasaur doing to Wikipedia, exactly? It's for situations like this that WP:IAR was created: when the rules prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. This is certainly preventing us from improving the encyclopedia, for we can't both discuss and write articles. Regards, — Celestianpower háblame 17:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Given that this this discussion is going nowhere really, I'll again ask if the Bulbasaur article is recreated, what argument will sustain it in an AfD? WP:IAR will not, and that has been the only argument brought up in favor of creating the article. So long as WP:FICT is unsatisfied, the result will be delete or merge. If no solid reason can be given to satisfy WP:FICT, then there's really no purpose in continuing this discussion besides making a point. We all have better things to do than sit in this endless argument. Sephiroth BCR ( Converse) 06:02, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Please stop with the links to arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. It's just an essay, not even a guideline, and its content is certainly not universally accepted. Please, by all means, take it to AfD and see what they say, but otherwise, leave out the links to essays. It really doesn't help. Regards, — Celestianpower háblame 11:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree that watching large amounts of articles can be difficult, but I cannot, for the life of me, see why someone cannot create a wikibot designed to do that for you; for example, it could email you the list of changes at the end of the day, or perhaps create a special watch page for you that just lists changes to these articles.
Yes, sometimes articles go for weeks at a time without anyone removing vandalism, but that will, and does, happen with all articles that are not watched much. For example, just the other day I removed some from Ace the Bat-Hound. I wasn't watching the article, I just happen to be passing through.
If you really feel that this is a major problem with these articles, ask someone who's skilled in wiki-code to create a wikibot for this matter. -- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 04:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I might not be part of this discussion, but I'm sick of reading it. So I brought this article to discussion. Policies/essays arguments won't solve anything, so this is the best way to stop the discussion. I know we're all sick of this long discussion. Once the discussion is finished, we will start discussing something new, I promise. Charizard needs the same attention as Bulbasaur got too much of. TheBlazikenMaster 22:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It might have gotten lost somewhere in all the chatter, but Bulbasaur still sucks. I started writing another long post about why, but got distracted by a combination of new music and the same old damned problems with the article. If you'd like to see what I did write, see Talk:Bulbasaur#Attention: Blah blah blah (Problems mark 2). Even if you don't care about Bulbasaur, check it out: I wrote a haiku. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 15:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay. Quick review, don't expect this to get everything. (Looking at these articles is sort of depressing.)
There's probably a bunch more but that's a start. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 00:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Apparently, BA left a few days ago, so is everybody up for redirecting now? TTN 12:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
It's been months since I chimed in here last, and I haven't educated myself on this matter, but I just came up with an idea that's either so stupid it'll work, or just stupid and worthy of mocking. Why not just revert back to the version that passed FA? The Hybrid T/ C 23:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I know how to merge articles for a single pokémon, but I don't have a clue how to merge this. Should I mark it for AfD? I'm really confused how to merge this. TheBlazikenMaster 19:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Why are there not any pictures of the Pokemon anymore? Wouldn't pictures be increcibly useful to someone who wants to get a general idea of, say, what a Pokemon looks like? I'm guessing that they were removed for legal reasons, right? -- Phantom Kirby 20:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
...And Betacommand just killed them from the List of Elite Four members. Good for him. I did think it was kind of excessive to have a huge image for, say, Bertha, when the writing only consisted of a paragraph of information. Speaking of which, the infoboxes make the sections way too long. Should they be removed? hbdragon88 21:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Yet another problem for this project...the wikiball (which the project uses a lot) got deleted off the Wikimedia Commons as a copyvio. [1]) The image has NOT been orphaned as of writing. Checkusage Fun Pika 23:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I had uploaded it under Image:Pokeprojectsymbol.PNG but it wouldn't upload right after 2 tries. I am G7ing it. Fun Pika 01:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
It could always be claimed that the image, is, in fact, a parody of the Master ball, which, IIRC, is purple and white, with an 'm' on it. (thus the wikiball has the 'm' turned upside down). According to US law, it's a work of it's own, and can be copyrighted or released into public domain, etc. Forgive me if this has ready been stated, or such. I'm not really sure if this holds up to wikimedia's copyright rules, but that all I can suggest right now. -- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 04:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The Wikiball is back! :D Fun Pika 18:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I still am disappointed in missing the nomination on the article about Ash's mother, damn it. I wasn't even noted here. Please people use the noticeboard, I'm sick of losing important Pokémon-related nominations. I could have added my opinion on Ash's mother, but did NEVER get the chance, because I wasn't warned or anything. Not on this WikiProject. Please at least let us know if there is something up for deletion.
I would have wanted the article about Ash's mother to be a redirect, I couldn't do anything, since I wasn't told about the nomination about Ash's mother. Well, I added a recent nomination. But I was THAT close in missing the nomination on Bulbapedia, when there is a nomination regarding something pokémon related, use the notice board, please. I can't get over it for not having be able to know about the nomination of Ash's mother before it was too late. TheBlazikenMaster 17:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Uh, what nomination? The deletion log shows an AFD debate that never existed. And, if I remember correctly, it was only a redirect to the main Ash Ketchum article, so there wasn't much that was deleted. I have contacted Anthony.bradbury about it, though. hbdragon88 18:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I've probably helped quite a few people but also frustrated quite a few people with my attitude, and for that I am sorry. I hope that you all continue editing Wikipedia and enjoy doing so, and keep up the good work. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you guys know I noticed that this article has been created. I won't do anything to it, instead I wanna ask more of an expert on the policies what to do about it. Discuss. TheBlazikenMaster 17:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I was just wondering why all the Pokemon are jammed into huge lists now, rather than having their proper, individual pages.
They are far more documented and notable than a vast plethora of our other articles and could be comprehensively defended in a delete dispute. So what happened?
-- Tefalstar 17:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
If we were to actually enforce policy, we'd probably wipe out at least a tenth of the encyclopedia (see my userpage for details). There is just so much that consists of solely of plot elements. The question I have is: yes, it's a list, but a list looks little better than an individual article. That is one of the reasons why my involvement here is to the video game articles, instead of the species ones. I am proud of my revamping of the Colosseum plot and the rework of the changes section in Emerald. hbdragon88 ( talk) 01:35, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Click here, and reply to that section. And do all you can to clean it up. See the talk page for more info. TheBlazikenMaster ( talk) 00:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
NOTE: This is simply a direction to another discussion. Please discuss this on the proper place. Because there is no need or point of discussing the exact same thing on two places.
No Pokemon articles have ever been featured? I thought I quite distinctly remembered Bulbasaur being featured at one point... does nobody else? Or has something occured since to undo its status? 76.10.156.22 ( talk) 05:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey guys, Pikachu is up for Good Article reassessment again... help would be appreciated! - Malkinann ( talk) 00:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I think that we should, judging from the fact that he isn't even a registered user, doesn't have any contributions, and, well, isn't a registered user. Someone must have put his name on there as a joke or something. ♠ ♦ ♣ ♥ 19:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Click here to join the discussion. TheBlazikenMaster ( talk) 09:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I decided I'd create a userbox for people who sympathize with (but do or will not join) the PCP. Tell me what you think.
This user sympathizes with (but is not part of) WikiProject Pokémon. |
- Jéské ( Blah v^_^v) 00:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Back from a wikibreak and checking. - Warthog Demon 04:56, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I thought members of this project might be interested in the current work on the Pokémon Master article, and the current discussion on merging it into the Pokemon Trainer article. As you can see, the current discussion on the talk page has been limited to only a few editors including myself, and so I thought this article could use more attention from especially interested editors TheBilly ( talk) 05:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
On the list of good articles on the Main project page, it says that there are like seven or something "good articles", including Pikachu, Golduck, Mewtwo and a few others. However, on the official tally right below that "good article list", it says that there are only 2 "good" articles. I have looked up at least one of them, and it had its Good Article status revoked. It was once a good article, but now it isn't. (the Pikachu Article) Should we include these on a new list, or simply remove them from the old list? -- Superpika66 ( talk) 15:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC) (PS sorry, I forgot to sign in)
I am trying to get Pokémon Yellow moved to it's correct title of Pokémon Yellow: Special Pikachu Edition (see the talk page for proof that this is the correct name of the game). So please express your support for the move since the articles should be as accurate as possible, starting with the titles of articles. TJ Spyke 23:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Why is the current format, which is:
is used in the articles about the actual Pokemon? I understand this is a holdout from Bulbapedia. Yet, I find the format to be somewhat unclear.
The English and Japanese names ought to be separated so that they need to be identified.
I support this format:
It puts as little as possible within the nihongo template and clearly identifies the actual Japanese name according to the format of the nihongo template.
Of course if the name is the same in the Japanese and English versions, the following ought to be used:
Let's see... 1. As I have said earlier, Pokemon names are written as "foreign" type names. There is no kanji used, and the katakana script, usually used for "foreign" words, is always used to write Pokemon names. 2. I don't see how separating the Japanese names into separate clauses violates this. The accounts are meant to be written for everyone, yes. But they are also meant to be comprehensive. The Japanese names are more important than the other foreign names because those Japanese names are the original names. I argue that having a separate clause does not focus a significant amount of attention on the Japanese name itself as opposed to the English name. 3. I'll use "Ghos" as an example since I know from seeing the Japanese intro that the official name, as written in English characters, is "Ghos." - Ghos is the actual name, ゴース is "Ghos" written in katakana, and "Gōsu" is how "ゴース" would be transliterated in Hepburn romanization. BUT "Ghos" is the original name. The only reason we use MOS template with Pokemon articles is because a Japanese group created the characters. The names themselves are not really "Japanese." 4. There has to be an official guide book with each of the Pokemon names written in roman characters. I do not believe that it matters "Unless there's good evidence that a Pokemon's japanese name represents an English word (or french, or etc)" - If the official guidebook or source says the name is "Ghos" (as written in roman characters), that is the name.
Now, if there is a discrepancy between official Japanese sources in terms of the spelling of the name, we would have to determine which source is to be used.
This has to do with the MOS, so I will later post this to the MOS as well. WhisperToMe ( talk) 19:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)