This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
How should varieties be properly abbreviated? Would someone please check this article and verify the correct binomial for the species also? Lathyrus_lanszwertii Thanks, KP Botany 16:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I reverted User:MPF over at Verbascum thapsus after he inflicted his "American names don't exist" concept on it (and various other stuff). Input on the talk page ( Talk:Verbascum thapsus#Sweeping changes) would be appreciated. Circeus 16:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you completely- he's gone way too far. I posted my opinion on the matter, but should there be a vote or more discussion, please let us know. It's a shame that he's picked such a solid article to ultra-Anglicise at the expense of important information. Let me know if there's anything more I can do. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 20:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I know this is not the right place but... does anybody know if Asarum is to be pronounced "áaasarum" or "asáaarum"? Do you think it would be interesting to show the right position of the stress in the Latin names in some way in WP articles (German speakers see [ [1]])? Does anybody know about a website where information can be found? Accents are used to mark stress in some European floras (a Flora Italica and a Flora von Deutschand for sure). Aelwyn 18:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I have Flora von Deutschland and it lists it as Ásarum. English speakers tend to put the stress on the second "a" in my experience. I agree with the previous comment that putting the pronunciation into the articles would probably lead to trouble due to regional variations. Here in Germany, for example, people pronounce Asteraceae "ah-ster-ah-ce", while in the US it is generally "as-ster-a-see-ee", which involves an extra syllable. Best to leave it to the imagination... Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 20:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Umm... yes, it is probably not completely appropriate to give the pronunciation in plant articles. Even more inappropriate, constantly writing accents on scientific names, as you can see in some German texts (copying from Flora von Deutschland, the mark is wrongly considered a part of the name). If we used them it would be a "Don't stuff beans up your nose" thing. An article on the pronunciation of botanical/scientific Latin in the different systems would be useful, if it doesn't already exist. That could link to a list of genera and common epithets with the indication of the stress, for those who do care. Another point in my already so long to-do list. Aelwyn 07:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC) PS: Latin is dead, but it doesn't mean one can use it like he or she wants. That's a bad habit particularly common among Americans, who tend to read Latin not only in a strongly Anglicised way, which may be OK, but often very inconsistently (americana, ah-may-ree-can-uh).
Maybe pronouncing dóu-glas-i-i and lém-mon-i-i is not that wrong, the two words are not real classical/mediaeval/new Latin. I wonder how Cicero/Linnaeus would have read Welwitschia! [2] [3] [4] Both these websites and the two floras (which I have seen but I do not possess) mark the stress using an acute accent, it's a mediaeval system (see: Latin spelling and pronunciation). It seems the best rendering solution to me. The 2nd website cites Quelle: Schmeil-Fitschen, Flora von Deutschland, Quelle & Meyer Verlag, 92. Aufl. 2003, ISBN 3-494-01328-4., which is a great text I consider perfectly reliable. If no major objections arise, I'll create List of botanical scientific names with accent marks (any better title?), make some links and possibly contact people from other bio projects who may be interested. Aelwyn 18:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I only only wondered if you knew something new to me. I agree with Curtis, rules are not enough. Length of vowels can be obvious from the word (Potentilla: -til- ends in consonant -> long), they can be easy to the Latin educated (Campanula: -ulus is a common diminutive suffix, the U is short.), but are often quite unpredictable (see Fraxinus and Asarum), especially if the word comes from Greek. This is why reading Latin correctly without the help of length marks or accents is very difficult even to me, Italian native speaker (a great advantage, we call a Campanula "campànula" and a Fraxinus "fràssino"). A page like KP's is a good and needed article. Probably the list really doesn't belong on Wikipedia and I can't imagine how long and troublesome it could become, but what to do then? Add the info on each article (box?), linked to the explanation? I strongly believe that that info should be provided somehow, especially because it is difficult to get. One can google and find 10 times the information we have on wiki about the most common plants and never understand how their scientific name is properly stressed. Aelwyn 08:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone proposed merging Tropical fruit and List of tropical fruittrees into List of fruits last year but no discussion was made about it. Please discuss. JohnnyMrNinja 08:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed a merger between Bean, Legume, Pulse (legume) and Fabaceae. Anyone interested can talk about it here. JohnnyMrNinja 01:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just added Ailanthus altissima to the peer review request section. It was reviewed and made a GA a few weeks ago, but I think it's fairly close to being worthy of an FA nomination. If anyone has some time, please have a look through and give any suggestions or critiques on the talk page. Thanks! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 14:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
This whole article reeks of copyvio, particularly if one goes back to the early versions [6] where only one person had contributed (also this editor's sole contribution). The source can't be located by google; my suspicion is a newspaper report that is no longer online. That does not however invalidate the copyright. I reckon the page should be deleted to remove the copyvio from the page's history, and re-started with only the GFDL text added by subsequent editors (primarily User:Hardyplants' addition of a taxobox, etc). Thoughts, anyone? - MPF 13:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
If you go back to the first version of the article 2 years ago - it clearly is copied nearly verbatim from this source http://www.arkansasheritage.com/storyline_news/dah_Storyline_Fall05.pdf Hardyplants 14:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I had been working on a revision on a subpage and I essentially merged the two together. I dug up the description written by the authors, but I'm not prepared to write all that in right now. If anyone else wants to take a stab, the .pdf file is refed (it's from the journal Sida) Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 21:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought I'd already mentioned this here, but apparently not -- my bad. There's a huge number of very short stubs on diseases of plants, the majority of them fungi of some sort, and several discussions over at WP:WSS/P as to what to do with them. There seems to me to be two obvious ways to split these up: by taxonomy of the infectee, or by taxonomy of the infector. The latter would be fairly straightforward to do, as there's generally some existing categorisation or infoboxing, and it would cut down on double-stubbing. The former, OTOH, might be more useful from a plant perspective, but in most cases the information seems to be missing from the article. Thoughts? Alai 15:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Yup, people. I couldn't help myself and nominated it for FA. feel free to come and chip in. Circeus 22:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I took the liberty of archiving the month of May. Circeus 22:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering what people think about linking all species in lists within new genus articles, in the case say where either no species articles have yet been created or where the genus article has been created to link with one new species article, but there is a list of, say, a dozen or more other species without articles. In the past I've tended to link all the species, but then the genus article often sits there with a visually jarring mass of red links for months on end, as no new articles are forthcoming. As a result, lately I've tended to only put in the blue links. Of course the red links have an advantage in that they automatically pick up new articles as they are created and are an encouragement to others to start articles for those species. Any thoughts? Melburnian 22:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe it's possible to have a consistent view on redlinks, because they mean different things. I favor them for species; the species exist, and when the articles are created, they are automatically linked (none of those "nothing links to this" warnings). But I routinely remove redlinked names from the personal names section of Sage, since there is no way to evaluate whether a redlinked personal name is notable in that context.-- Curtis Clark 03:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Can someone suggest what an appropriate course of action would be for this article. It has no information, is explicitly non-encyclopedic and only has photos. Furthermore I believe that this is a cultivar or hybrid rather than a genuine species (though I'm not sure) and if it is the name of the article should be changed. Any ideas? Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 19:46, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Done. The cultivar is now Fargesia 'Rufa', while the species is treated in the original article. Thanks for the help! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 01:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm confused. All I know is that I have something in my front yard that I bought a year ago labeled as Fargesia Rufa. Does this mean there are two different species, where as one is incorrectly identified in North America as Fargesia Rufa? Lowes sells them as Fargesia Rufa too. Also, this thread talks about it a little. -- Cngodles 18:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The Wikiversity Bloom Clock began its third solstice-to-solstice run on June 21. I'm announcing it a bit late because at that time we were waiting for a wikimedia extension ( DynamicPageList) to be enabled so that we could generate some "results" pages, which are regional lists by month (see, for example, v:Bloom Clock/Purple flowers seen in July in Southeastern Pennsylvania). The hope is to get more contributors from outside Southeastern Pennsylvania in order to create similar lists for other regions, and eventually be able to search for recognizable global patterns in order to come up with a "region-neutral" language for discussing bloom times on Wikipedia articles, Commons galleries, and Wikibooks chapters. In the shorter term, the regional lists (such as the example above) will at least be helpful for those who are looking for the identity of a particular plant. The latest template version for bloom log pages also includes an embedded template for written identifications of the plant, linking to similar plants to avoid confusion, and several other navigational tools intended to bolster the educational value of the clock.
The clock will also be the subject of several outreach projects now being planned for Wikimedia Pennsylvania, and will be incorporated into the curriculum of a small school (PPK-6th grade, or ages 3-12 yrs) in early August. Help is needed to work out any remaining kinks and problems.
Aside from helping with data accumulation, adding identifying information, and generating visual regional lists, Wikipedians can help in 2 other ways. First, checking the links from the clock to make sure there are indeed Wikipedia articles about the plants being logged. In most cases, the logs have photos (uploaded on commons, so they're useable here), so stub articles could be easily created using the image for a taxobox, and PD sources such as old florae. Second, linking the articles back to the clock using {{ Wikiversity-bc}} can help readers be aware of the seasonal data being collected. -- SB_Johnny| talk| books 09:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I study biology and have a question concerning plant physiology (my textbook is Taiz & Zeiger). As you might know, the meristem is composed of the L1, L2 and L3 stem cells and beyond that is a "quiescent zone" with lower rate of cell devision. So my question is, where do these cells of the quiescent zone come from, from the L1, the L2 or from the L3 stemcells? I would be very glad if somebody could answer my questions. Thank you -- hroest 20:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Several of the plant stub types have grown rather dramatically recently, and I've proposed splitting them up by taxon. As usual, see WP:WSS/P for the gory details. Alai 16:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
User:Wiki skylace has made a series of edits to this article variously claiming (most recently) that the sources are unreliable (which is wrong) and that calling a plant "noxious" and mentioning its allelopathic chemicals is a matter of NPOV. These is stalling the FAC process as I can't make improvements in the middle of an editing war. If any of you have time, please have a look at the article and at the talk page. Thanks! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore if you have a look at his contibutions he's going on a rampage deleting anything he feels is unsubstantiated (and A. altissima that is certainly not the case). He keeps mentioning that plants don't have magical powers, which seems to suggest that he doesn't believe in an invasive species. To giver a few examples, his summary for his edits to Kudzu: "Deleted unsubstantiated claim about the magical devestation this plant is causing.", to Euphorbia esula: "Unsubstantiated claims by the national park service do not belong in wikipedia, unless they are labeled as unsubstantiated claims. This plant does not have magical powers to erradicate other species.", etc.. Many of his edits are quickly reverted. This needs to be stopped as it is quickly turning into wholesale vandalism. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
encyclopedia, it aught to read like one. 23:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
And now he's started tearing up another article I've contributed to: Invasive species. Ughhh! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I have taken this on, and am dealing with it. Feel free to archive this discussion. Hesperian 02:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't have much time to do anything else than basic edits to it. Can somebody review Solidago shortii, which will probably go on DYK within a few days? Circeus 18:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
There's two descriptions in the page, one compiled from USFWS and one from Flora N. Amer., with some discrepancies; the two should be merged to avoid repetition. Of the two, the Flora N. Amer. account is the more detailed and authoritative, so the better to follow where they conflict. - MPF 11:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone else stumbled over the pages being added by User:Polbot ( User:Quadell's bot)? It's pulling information from the IUCN redlist and creating species and genera articles. They're pretty rudimentary, but I think it's fantastic! I'm going through and fixing a couple of things manually in articles I find that I noted on Quadell's talk page. -- Rkitko ( talk) 23:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Anyone who has the time, could you please edit some article's on this editor's list of contributions? [9] Thanks. I'll do what I can, also. KP Botany 04:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there a short cut to this page? Just a trivial concern. Fred ☻ 17:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Is the category useful? [10] I think it ties botanists who are also taxonomists together, so it is useful. KP Botany 21:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I am the person who nominated this category for deletion. At first, this really looked like the categorization of people who just have names that appear as abbreviations in botany references. Now that I understand the category, the name looked really unclear, as the average reader is not going to understand that having an abbreviated name means that the person identified a species of plant. I would really welcome suggestions for alternate names from other members of this WikiProject at the discussion. Dr. Submillimeter 22:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
How about we put something like this on the top of the category page:
This category is for botanists with an author abbreviation recognised by the IPNI. Please do not move articles into it directly: instead, please use the template as explained at Category:Botanists.
All articles in this category should also appear on List of botanists by author abbreviation.
It links to author citation (botany), indicating that this is what an author abbreviation is about, it links to IPNI, one place to get author abbreviations, it explains that it requires a template so that people don't come along and nominate it in CfD instead of TfD as Dr. Submillimeter did, and it gives enough links so that someone could read it and learn what it was about. It can't do anything about Dr. Submillimeter's speculation that the average Wikipedia reader when confused about at topic will attempt to consult individual Wikipedia editors rather than just asking a question on the talk page, but I don't see any references establishing that as a common occurence. KP Botany 06:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
This discussion seems to have drifted pretty far from whether the category is a good idea. As far as I can tell, this category-for-deletion proposal has nothing to do with whether wikipedia should include author abbreviations, or how best to be accessible to the general public yet not watered down, or other topics. Rather it is much more narrow: is a category or a list a better way to represent this information? (And how Category:Botanists should be sub-categorized). Kingdon 16:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I withdrew my nomination. I will accept all of the blame for all of the problems with this nomination. I apologize for causing people problems. Dr. Submillimeter 09:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Following our previous conversations regarding cultivars, subgenera, sections, hybrids, etc., please see the talk page at the flora naming convention for the discussion. Thanks! -- Rkitko ( talk) 03:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
KP Botany and I were having a discussion regarding categorization at Talk:Canna (plant)#Cannas category and wondered if anyone here had any opinions on how we go about categorizing. I've recently been making quite a few genus-level categories for some of the earlier Polbot contributions. In the case of Canna, however, it's a monotypic family so I assumed all articles should remain in the family category instead of using a redundant genus-level category. Basic question would be should we be using genus-level categories or stick to the familiar family-level? My opinion is that we often need to break down the large family categories with smaller genera subcategories. KP expressed disagreement with that opinion, so we're looking for additional input and the possibility of reaching consensus. Thoughts? -- Rkitko ( talk) 12:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Two observations: first, I don't think it really matters if the category name is "Canna" or "Cannaceae" as long as it is consistent and non-redundant within the category. What was problematic was having two categories, "Cannas" and "Cannaceae", which were basically the same thing and contained the same set of articles. Second, Giantsshoulders/CannaCollector has over-categorized the various articles relating to Cannas, e.g., adding botanists, horticulturists, and various other articles to the category when they really only need to be linked within the various Canna articles. I've already removed a couple of categories that were awfully tenuous (like "biofuels", apparently based on the pure speculation that canna rhizomes just might be used as such at some point in the future). MrDarwin 13:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Giantsshoulders, by all means write the articles and add the information; I have an interest in cannas and am finding much of what you're adding very interesting. I'm just saying that I don't see the need to categorize all these articles under "Cannaceae" when simple in-text links between the articles should be sufficient. (I'll confess right now that I don't quite get the whole categorization concept in the first place, especially when it's not always clear if the categories are conceptual, subject-related or taxonomic.) MrDarwin 17:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
A plant article with public domain material is an example at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Why quotation marks are not the real issue. Discuss there whether the style of Aralia spinosa needs significant alteration, other than rephrasing to prose. ( SEWilco 20:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC))
As far as I can tell, this article is little more than an advertisement for a commercial nursery. Anybody care to try to either clean it up or nominate it for deletion? MrDarwin 13:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I put a request at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve for a diagram to properly illustrate plant stem. Ideas and further suggestions welcome. Circeus 22:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I would like to know if the articles Helichrysum sp. nov. A, Helichrysum sp. nov. B, Helichrysum sp. nov. C, Helichrysum sp. nov. D and Helichrysum sp. nov. E should be deleted, because they are not considered formally taxa, they were created by Polbot when running IUCN red list. Berton 16:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The deal with these names is they are used to refer to specimens that are believed to constitute a novel species, but which have not yet been published as such. Usually, a taxon would be given a name before any attempt to discuss or refer to them. But when you're trying to provide legislative protection for an endangered species, it is forgivable to jump the gun somewhat, and list it even though it doesn't actually have a name yet. For us, the crucial point is that these specimens have not been formally published as a species (or indeed a taxon at any rank). The notion that this is a species is merely an opinion, albeit of a professional botanist, but which has not yet been subject to stringent peer review. It is therefore not appropriate for us to refer to them as species:
should be rephrased to:
I suspect that this is pretty much the sum total of information available on these specimens, in which case it is questionable whether they merit an article at all. Hesperian 12:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I think sp. nov. are not suitable for WP articles by definition - they haven't been published yet, ergo we don't have a reliable published source from which to work. It seems reasonable to mention the IUCN listing in Helichrysum, from the reader's point of view it's a nice little bit of insight into the edges of what we know about plants. It's probably worth making a guideline, but not a policy; apparently there are some tropical fish now being raised worldwide by aquarists, and clearly notable for that reason, and yet they haven't been formally described(!). Stan 15:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Bad news: there is also from the same author (A. G. Miller) in Poaceae, Ischaemum sp. nov.. Berton 16:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
How should varieties be properly abbreviated? Would someone please check this article and verify the correct binomial for the species also? Lathyrus_lanszwertii Thanks, KP Botany 16:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I reverted User:MPF over at Verbascum thapsus after he inflicted his "American names don't exist" concept on it (and various other stuff). Input on the talk page ( Talk:Verbascum thapsus#Sweeping changes) would be appreciated. Circeus 16:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you completely- he's gone way too far. I posted my opinion on the matter, but should there be a vote or more discussion, please let us know. It's a shame that he's picked such a solid article to ultra-Anglicise at the expense of important information. Let me know if there's anything more I can do. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 20:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I know this is not the right place but... does anybody know if Asarum is to be pronounced "áaasarum" or "asáaarum"? Do you think it would be interesting to show the right position of the stress in the Latin names in some way in WP articles (German speakers see [ [1]])? Does anybody know about a website where information can be found? Accents are used to mark stress in some European floras (a Flora Italica and a Flora von Deutschand for sure). Aelwyn 18:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I have Flora von Deutschland and it lists it as Ásarum. English speakers tend to put the stress on the second "a" in my experience. I agree with the previous comment that putting the pronunciation into the articles would probably lead to trouble due to regional variations. Here in Germany, for example, people pronounce Asteraceae "ah-ster-ah-ce", while in the US it is generally "as-ster-a-see-ee", which involves an extra syllable. Best to leave it to the imagination... Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 20:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Umm... yes, it is probably not completely appropriate to give the pronunciation in plant articles. Even more inappropriate, constantly writing accents on scientific names, as you can see in some German texts (copying from Flora von Deutschland, the mark is wrongly considered a part of the name). If we used them it would be a "Don't stuff beans up your nose" thing. An article on the pronunciation of botanical/scientific Latin in the different systems would be useful, if it doesn't already exist. That could link to a list of genera and common epithets with the indication of the stress, for those who do care. Another point in my already so long to-do list. Aelwyn 07:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC) PS: Latin is dead, but it doesn't mean one can use it like he or she wants. That's a bad habit particularly common among Americans, who tend to read Latin not only in a strongly Anglicised way, which may be OK, but often very inconsistently (americana, ah-may-ree-can-uh).
Maybe pronouncing dóu-glas-i-i and lém-mon-i-i is not that wrong, the two words are not real classical/mediaeval/new Latin. I wonder how Cicero/Linnaeus would have read Welwitschia! [2] [3] [4] Both these websites and the two floras (which I have seen but I do not possess) mark the stress using an acute accent, it's a mediaeval system (see: Latin spelling and pronunciation). It seems the best rendering solution to me. The 2nd website cites Quelle: Schmeil-Fitschen, Flora von Deutschland, Quelle & Meyer Verlag, 92. Aufl. 2003, ISBN 3-494-01328-4., which is a great text I consider perfectly reliable. If no major objections arise, I'll create List of botanical scientific names with accent marks (any better title?), make some links and possibly contact people from other bio projects who may be interested. Aelwyn 18:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I only only wondered if you knew something new to me. I agree with Curtis, rules are not enough. Length of vowels can be obvious from the word (Potentilla: -til- ends in consonant -> long), they can be easy to the Latin educated (Campanula: -ulus is a common diminutive suffix, the U is short.), but are often quite unpredictable (see Fraxinus and Asarum), especially if the word comes from Greek. This is why reading Latin correctly without the help of length marks or accents is very difficult even to me, Italian native speaker (a great advantage, we call a Campanula "campànula" and a Fraxinus "fràssino"). A page like KP's is a good and needed article. Probably the list really doesn't belong on Wikipedia and I can't imagine how long and troublesome it could become, but what to do then? Add the info on each article (box?), linked to the explanation? I strongly believe that that info should be provided somehow, especially because it is difficult to get. One can google and find 10 times the information we have on wiki about the most common plants and never understand how their scientific name is properly stressed. Aelwyn 08:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone proposed merging Tropical fruit and List of tropical fruittrees into List of fruits last year but no discussion was made about it. Please discuss. JohnnyMrNinja 08:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed a merger between Bean, Legume, Pulse (legume) and Fabaceae. Anyone interested can talk about it here. JohnnyMrNinja 01:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just added Ailanthus altissima to the peer review request section. It was reviewed and made a GA a few weeks ago, but I think it's fairly close to being worthy of an FA nomination. If anyone has some time, please have a look through and give any suggestions or critiques on the talk page. Thanks! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 14:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
This whole article reeks of copyvio, particularly if one goes back to the early versions [6] where only one person had contributed (also this editor's sole contribution). The source can't be located by google; my suspicion is a newspaper report that is no longer online. That does not however invalidate the copyright. I reckon the page should be deleted to remove the copyvio from the page's history, and re-started with only the GFDL text added by subsequent editors (primarily User:Hardyplants' addition of a taxobox, etc). Thoughts, anyone? - MPF 13:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
If you go back to the first version of the article 2 years ago - it clearly is copied nearly verbatim from this source http://www.arkansasheritage.com/storyline_news/dah_Storyline_Fall05.pdf Hardyplants 14:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I had been working on a revision on a subpage and I essentially merged the two together. I dug up the description written by the authors, but I'm not prepared to write all that in right now. If anyone else wants to take a stab, the .pdf file is refed (it's from the journal Sida) Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 21:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought I'd already mentioned this here, but apparently not -- my bad. There's a huge number of very short stubs on diseases of plants, the majority of them fungi of some sort, and several discussions over at WP:WSS/P as to what to do with them. There seems to me to be two obvious ways to split these up: by taxonomy of the infectee, or by taxonomy of the infector. The latter would be fairly straightforward to do, as there's generally some existing categorisation or infoboxing, and it would cut down on double-stubbing. The former, OTOH, might be more useful from a plant perspective, but in most cases the information seems to be missing from the article. Thoughts? Alai 15:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Yup, people. I couldn't help myself and nominated it for FA. feel free to come and chip in. Circeus 22:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I took the liberty of archiving the month of May. Circeus 22:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering what people think about linking all species in lists within new genus articles, in the case say where either no species articles have yet been created or where the genus article has been created to link with one new species article, but there is a list of, say, a dozen or more other species without articles. In the past I've tended to link all the species, but then the genus article often sits there with a visually jarring mass of red links for months on end, as no new articles are forthcoming. As a result, lately I've tended to only put in the blue links. Of course the red links have an advantage in that they automatically pick up new articles as they are created and are an encouragement to others to start articles for those species. Any thoughts? Melburnian 22:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe it's possible to have a consistent view on redlinks, because they mean different things. I favor them for species; the species exist, and when the articles are created, they are automatically linked (none of those "nothing links to this" warnings). But I routinely remove redlinked names from the personal names section of Sage, since there is no way to evaluate whether a redlinked personal name is notable in that context.-- Curtis Clark 03:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Can someone suggest what an appropriate course of action would be for this article. It has no information, is explicitly non-encyclopedic and only has photos. Furthermore I believe that this is a cultivar or hybrid rather than a genuine species (though I'm not sure) and if it is the name of the article should be changed. Any ideas? Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 19:46, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Done. The cultivar is now Fargesia 'Rufa', while the species is treated in the original article. Thanks for the help! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 01:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm confused. All I know is that I have something in my front yard that I bought a year ago labeled as Fargesia Rufa. Does this mean there are two different species, where as one is incorrectly identified in North America as Fargesia Rufa? Lowes sells them as Fargesia Rufa too. Also, this thread talks about it a little. -- Cngodles 18:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The Wikiversity Bloom Clock began its third solstice-to-solstice run on June 21. I'm announcing it a bit late because at that time we were waiting for a wikimedia extension ( DynamicPageList) to be enabled so that we could generate some "results" pages, which are regional lists by month (see, for example, v:Bloom Clock/Purple flowers seen in July in Southeastern Pennsylvania). The hope is to get more contributors from outside Southeastern Pennsylvania in order to create similar lists for other regions, and eventually be able to search for recognizable global patterns in order to come up with a "region-neutral" language for discussing bloom times on Wikipedia articles, Commons galleries, and Wikibooks chapters. In the shorter term, the regional lists (such as the example above) will at least be helpful for those who are looking for the identity of a particular plant. The latest template version for bloom log pages also includes an embedded template for written identifications of the plant, linking to similar plants to avoid confusion, and several other navigational tools intended to bolster the educational value of the clock.
The clock will also be the subject of several outreach projects now being planned for Wikimedia Pennsylvania, and will be incorporated into the curriculum of a small school (PPK-6th grade, or ages 3-12 yrs) in early August. Help is needed to work out any remaining kinks and problems.
Aside from helping with data accumulation, adding identifying information, and generating visual regional lists, Wikipedians can help in 2 other ways. First, checking the links from the clock to make sure there are indeed Wikipedia articles about the plants being logged. In most cases, the logs have photos (uploaded on commons, so they're useable here), so stub articles could be easily created using the image for a taxobox, and PD sources such as old florae. Second, linking the articles back to the clock using {{ Wikiversity-bc}} can help readers be aware of the seasonal data being collected. -- SB_Johnny| talk| books 09:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I study biology and have a question concerning plant physiology (my textbook is Taiz & Zeiger). As you might know, the meristem is composed of the L1, L2 and L3 stem cells and beyond that is a "quiescent zone" with lower rate of cell devision. So my question is, where do these cells of the quiescent zone come from, from the L1, the L2 or from the L3 stemcells? I would be very glad if somebody could answer my questions. Thank you -- hroest 20:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Several of the plant stub types have grown rather dramatically recently, and I've proposed splitting them up by taxon. As usual, see WP:WSS/P for the gory details. Alai 16:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
User:Wiki skylace has made a series of edits to this article variously claiming (most recently) that the sources are unreliable (which is wrong) and that calling a plant "noxious" and mentioning its allelopathic chemicals is a matter of NPOV. These is stalling the FAC process as I can't make improvements in the middle of an editing war. If any of you have time, please have a look at the article and at the talk page. Thanks! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore if you have a look at his contibutions he's going on a rampage deleting anything he feels is unsubstantiated (and A. altissima that is certainly not the case). He keeps mentioning that plants don't have magical powers, which seems to suggest that he doesn't believe in an invasive species. To giver a few examples, his summary for his edits to Kudzu: "Deleted unsubstantiated claim about the magical devestation this plant is causing.", to Euphorbia esula: "Unsubstantiated claims by the national park service do not belong in wikipedia, unless they are labeled as unsubstantiated claims. This plant does not have magical powers to erradicate other species.", etc.. Many of his edits are quickly reverted. This needs to be stopped as it is quickly turning into wholesale vandalism. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
encyclopedia, it aught to read like one. 23:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
And now he's started tearing up another article I've contributed to: Invasive species. Ughhh! Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I have taken this on, and am dealing with it. Feel free to archive this discussion. Hesperian 02:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't have much time to do anything else than basic edits to it. Can somebody review Solidago shortii, which will probably go on DYK within a few days? Circeus 18:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
There's two descriptions in the page, one compiled from USFWS and one from Flora N. Amer., with some discrepancies; the two should be merged to avoid repetition. Of the two, the Flora N. Amer. account is the more detailed and authoritative, so the better to follow where they conflict. - MPF 11:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone else stumbled over the pages being added by User:Polbot ( User:Quadell's bot)? It's pulling information from the IUCN redlist and creating species and genera articles. They're pretty rudimentary, but I think it's fantastic! I'm going through and fixing a couple of things manually in articles I find that I noted on Quadell's talk page. -- Rkitko ( talk) 23:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Anyone who has the time, could you please edit some article's on this editor's list of contributions? [9] Thanks. I'll do what I can, also. KP Botany 04:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there a short cut to this page? Just a trivial concern. Fred ☻ 17:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Is the category useful? [10] I think it ties botanists who are also taxonomists together, so it is useful. KP Botany 21:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I am the person who nominated this category for deletion. At first, this really looked like the categorization of people who just have names that appear as abbreviations in botany references. Now that I understand the category, the name looked really unclear, as the average reader is not going to understand that having an abbreviated name means that the person identified a species of plant. I would really welcome suggestions for alternate names from other members of this WikiProject at the discussion. Dr. Submillimeter 22:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
How about we put something like this on the top of the category page:
This category is for botanists with an author abbreviation recognised by the IPNI. Please do not move articles into it directly: instead, please use the template as explained at Category:Botanists.
All articles in this category should also appear on List of botanists by author abbreviation.
It links to author citation (botany), indicating that this is what an author abbreviation is about, it links to IPNI, one place to get author abbreviations, it explains that it requires a template so that people don't come along and nominate it in CfD instead of TfD as Dr. Submillimeter did, and it gives enough links so that someone could read it and learn what it was about. It can't do anything about Dr. Submillimeter's speculation that the average Wikipedia reader when confused about at topic will attempt to consult individual Wikipedia editors rather than just asking a question on the talk page, but I don't see any references establishing that as a common occurence. KP Botany 06:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
This discussion seems to have drifted pretty far from whether the category is a good idea. As far as I can tell, this category-for-deletion proposal has nothing to do with whether wikipedia should include author abbreviations, or how best to be accessible to the general public yet not watered down, or other topics. Rather it is much more narrow: is a category or a list a better way to represent this information? (And how Category:Botanists should be sub-categorized). Kingdon 16:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I withdrew my nomination. I will accept all of the blame for all of the problems with this nomination. I apologize for causing people problems. Dr. Submillimeter 09:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Following our previous conversations regarding cultivars, subgenera, sections, hybrids, etc., please see the talk page at the flora naming convention for the discussion. Thanks! -- Rkitko ( talk) 03:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
KP Botany and I were having a discussion regarding categorization at Talk:Canna (plant)#Cannas category and wondered if anyone here had any opinions on how we go about categorizing. I've recently been making quite a few genus-level categories for some of the earlier Polbot contributions. In the case of Canna, however, it's a monotypic family so I assumed all articles should remain in the family category instead of using a redundant genus-level category. Basic question would be should we be using genus-level categories or stick to the familiar family-level? My opinion is that we often need to break down the large family categories with smaller genera subcategories. KP expressed disagreement with that opinion, so we're looking for additional input and the possibility of reaching consensus. Thoughts? -- Rkitko ( talk) 12:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Two observations: first, I don't think it really matters if the category name is "Canna" or "Cannaceae" as long as it is consistent and non-redundant within the category. What was problematic was having two categories, "Cannas" and "Cannaceae", which were basically the same thing and contained the same set of articles. Second, Giantsshoulders/CannaCollector has over-categorized the various articles relating to Cannas, e.g., adding botanists, horticulturists, and various other articles to the category when they really only need to be linked within the various Canna articles. I've already removed a couple of categories that were awfully tenuous (like "biofuels", apparently based on the pure speculation that canna rhizomes just might be used as such at some point in the future). MrDarwin 13:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Giantsshoulders, by all means write the articles and add the information; I have an interest in cannas and am finding much of what you're adding very interesting. I'm just saying that I don't see the need to categorize all these articles under "Cannaceae" when simple in-text links between the articles should be sufficient. (I'll confess right now that I don't quite get the whole categorization concept in the first place, especially when it's not always clear if the categories are conceptual, subject-related or taxonomic.) MrDarwin 17:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
A plant article with public domain material is an example at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Why quotation marks are not the real issue. Discuss there whether the style of Aralia spinosa needs significant alteration, other than rephrasing to prose. ( SEWilco 20:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC))
As far as I can tell, this article is little more than an advertisement for a commercial nursery. Anybody care to try to either clean it up or nominate it for deletion? MrDarwin 13:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I put a request at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve for a diagram to properly illustrate plant stem. Ideas and further suggestions welcome. Circeus 22:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I would like to know if the articles Helichrysum sp. nov. A, Helichrysum sp. nov. B, Helichrysum sp. nov. C, Helichrysum sp. nov. D and Helichrysum sp. nov. E should be deleted, because they are not considered formally taxa, they were created by Polbot when running IUCN red list. Berton 16:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The deal with these names is they are used to refer to specimens that are believed to constitute a novel species, but which have not yet been published as such. Usually, a taxon would be given a name before any attempt to discuss or refer to them. But when you're trying to provide legislative protection for an endangered species, it is forgivable to jump the gun somewhat, and list it even though it doesn't actually have a name yet. For us, the crucial point is that these specimens have not been formally published as a species (or indeed a taxon at any rank). The notion that this is a species is merely an opinion, albeit of a professional botanist, but which has not yet been subject to stringent peer review. It is therefore not appropriate for us to refer to them as species:
should be rephrased to:
I suspect that this is pretty much the sum total of information available on these specimens, in which case it is questionable whether they merit an article at all. Hesperian 12:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I think sp. nov. are not suitable for WP articles by definition - they haven't been published yet, ergo we don't have a reliable published source from which to work. It seems reasonable to mention the IUCN listing in Helichrysum, from the reader's point of view it's a nice little bit of insight into the edges of what we know about plants. It's probably worth making a guideline, but not a policy; apparently there are some tropical fish now being raised worldwide by aquarists, and clearly notable for that reason, and yet they haven't been formally described(!). Stan 15:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Bad news: there is also from the same author (A. G. Miller) in Poaceae, Ischaemum sp. nov.. Berton 16:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)