This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
As I'm looking up stuff for a new version of Cornus canadensis, one strange thing is coming up that I can't seem to clear up: Is the subgenus composed of C. canandensis, C. suecica and C. unalaskensis correctly named Arctocrania or Chamaepericlymenum?
I do not have access to Cappiello and Shadow's recent monography (though I plant to get it via interlibrary loan at some point). Anybody knows how good it is? Circeus 17:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
There was a category deleted Category:Plant sexuality, which I thought should stay, but now I see we have Category:Plant reproduction. Is the former completely redundant to the latter, and should I then have it deleted again? KP Botany 19:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
If anything, Plant sexuality would be a subset of Plant reproduction, since not all plants always use sex to reproduce - a major subset for sure. Hardyplants 09:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
What does this mean "class Magnoliopsida [= dicotyledons]?" Brya uses it throughout tons of pages, and I think she means that in this case the usages of Magnoliopsida is synonymous with dicots? It's not real clear what is meant by this, should it be changed, clarified? KP Botany 20:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I think its the other way around, he/she is questening the fact that all Magnoliopsida are dicotyledons or that all dicotyledons are Magnoliopsida. Hardyplants 09:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
MrDarwin, there's an example in Magnoliopsida where it's used throughout the article. I don't see how we can get Hardyplants' usage out of it in this article?
Still, it has to be rewritten throughout into standard English prose, but I'm not sure what to rewrite it as, and not sure it even means the same thing every where. So, maybe some suggestions on what it should mean in this particular article, and I'll go on from there.
Yes, Curtis, scientists use names and words without clear definitions all of the time, botany just does it more often than other areas, and it would be tremendously original of us to not do so, as I argued once with Brya. Which is also why, I wish the lot of you would support me in simply asking that taxoboxes include the name of the classification system they are using as a courtesy to users of the encyclopedia, but I'm almost given up on that one.
So, what should this page say? What does it say? Magnoliopsida KP Botany 19:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Who is the Wikipedia editor who does many of the carnivorous plant articles, and also sometimes participates in discussions on this board, and about California natives? (I have a personal repotting question.) KP Botany 20:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Ask User:Rkitko. Hardyplants 20:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
A question for a specialist of the ICBN. If the original author of a new genus made a mistake in the etymology of the name, is this mistake also accepted by the ICBN ? I refer to the discussion on Talk:Phalaenopsis#Phalaenopsis / etymology. JoJan 20:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Could the name have been derived from a moth taxon - there is a PHALAENIDAE family of moths , I have an old text that lists it as the largest family of months, the pupa of some of them look like whales, this is just a guess - the moth was named first and the plants named after the moths? Hardyplants 21:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Not even that close as far as I can tell. If would be interesting to find out how the name came about. Hardyplants 05:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
As I said on the talk page, Phalaenoptilus also uses "phalaina" as in moth, as does Dendrobium phalaenopsis, so we now have three botanists that think "phalaina" means "moth". I think we can rule out an error. Hesperian 06:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it is not an error, but the word does not appear to mean 'moth' in Greek but 'whale'. So I am still wondering if the moth was named first- because the pupa look like whales and the plants were named after the moths given classification name, which they look like. Hardyplants 06:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
For lack of an official collaboration I have started a list on the collaboration page of biggish articles with quite a bit of content which need predominantly formatting and copyediting (and possibly reffs) which may be within striking distance of GA and not a huge amount of work to get to FAC. Please list any quite large articles which may be appropriate. May be a good place to check once in a while for something for which some groundwork may have been done for a GA/FA assault....cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 08:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I've made an article for the Southeast Asian tree called "poontalai" in Thai (given variously on the Internet as Sterculia lychnophora or Scaphium macropodium. I've made a WP article under the former name, but I wonder where the latter came from, and whether the sources you have access to might say which is the correct Latin name. I appreciate your expert assistance, as always! Badagnani 18:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on a proposal to subsume all the WP:TOL project banners into a single one. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Template union proposal and its talk page. Circeus 19:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been thinking about the Amborella thing, is it correct that with monotypic families the species entry should be at the family level? Is there anything in particular that belongs in the family that shouldn't be on the species page? The only reason initially for creating the Amborellaceae article rather than adding to the Amborella article was that most of the research that changed various plant taxonomies was done on higher level relationships, families into orders. So, should I make the Amborellaceae article (barring coming across something that indicates otherwise) the only article on the plant, and the Amborella page a redirect to Amborellaceae? Should I generally follow this for the other families I'm working on that are monotypic?
KP Botany 20:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
(unindenting)The rule is neither "highest" or "lowest": it is "genus" (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (flora)). As for why, I believe it reflects standard practice in the scientific literature (for example, "That is, in addition to Amborella, Nymphaeaceae sensu APG II (2003) and Austrobaileyales . . ." from [2] - note Amborella not Amborellaceae). In the case of Amborellaceae, there's a lot more information than usual about "where does this genus fit phylogenetically?", so the question is whether to keep family and genus articles separate. My answer: no. If we want two articles, call them Amborella and Taxonomy of Amborella (or perhaps some re-wording of the latter). But there is no particular reason to expect to see the taxonomy information at the family level and everything else at the genus level. Kingdon 19:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Additional sock puppets were found and confirmed by check user (which only confirms that they use the same IP as Brya). [3] To me, the first two looked indisputably like User:Brya sock puppets, and I found them while checking one of the pages edited by one of her other confirmed sock puppets. User:MrDarwin disagrees that these accounts are Brya sock puppets, and posted his disagreement on the check user request.
For all the problems we've had with User:Brya it is, imo, best to request these accounts be blocked as Brya sock puppets. If they are not sock puppets they can contest the blocking. My concern is that not blocking them now will lead to future entanglements with Brya.
CannaCollector's account was created after the RFC, [4] and Canna opened her account with a rather elaborate first contribution. [5] ReadersFavorite edits the same accounts as both Canna and Giants, but was only used briefly. [6] And Giantsshoulders [7] has at least once used a seriously Brya-like edit summary. [8] It was one of these edit summaries that first suggested to me these were also Brya socks.
My concern is that not blocking these sock puppets will be an invitation to Brya to create more sock puppets, and Brya will not hold her temper. Even after User:MrDarwin wrote a rather nice note on her talk page about the sock puppetry accusations, Brya denied that she was ever a problem to the community, and pretty much showed how little she got the point of the RfC, the proposed community ban and RfAr, and ultimate block for being disruptive during discussion of the community ban. [9]
Not run through check user:
In addition there is another account created for the Canna articles, with a similar name, that has not been run throught check user: User:Jumping Jack Flash.
Should I or someone request these additional suspected sock puppets of Brya be banned (based upon Wikipedia policy that banned users are not allowed to use sock puppets to circumvent the ban)?
I didn't post this on the suspected sock puppets' user pages, or notice of this, as, realistically, Brya's only chance, if these are her sock puppets, is not being involved in the conversation; and posting there, if they are Brya socks, will only be provocative. If they're not Brya sock puppets, they won't know what this is about, and even if they are blocked, they will be allowed to contest the block and defend themselves.
I post this here because of MrDarwin's comment on the checkuser that he does not think these are Brya sock puppets, so the issue requires additional community input.
KP Botany 21:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Could somebody please copyedit? Do you think it was a right edit to do? Aelwyn 15:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Common names are to redirect to scientific names. Does this rule apply only to relatively unknown species like Drosera anglica or also to more common plants? I mean, are articles like Dandelion, Greater celandine, St. John's wort incorrectly named? Aelwyn 21:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
What about common names that refer to more than one genus? A while back when i was new to wikipedia I created a page for chickweed because it is commonly used for a number of different plants- was I wrong and how should I correct it. Hardyplants 06:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
well, i was wishing to rewrite the article so that i can nominate it for FAC. what i need to do is that i want to remove all the content and restart with the artile. can i remove the content in order to have a new start up. within six days i will definetly try to pass it for GAC. Sushant gupta ( talk · contribs) 14:28, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know how well it would work, but I spent 4 hours at the nearest arboretum with two digital cameras, extra batteries, water, sunscreen, long sleeves, and a wide-brimmed hat. Covered about 1/8 of the land. Got 350 pictures in 500 Mb, but only about 175 plant photos due to photos of labels (fast way of taking notes and I had 2,500 Mb of storage with me). Looks like about 20% of the pictures will end up on Wikipedia, and I'm not bothering to add yet-another-petunia images. I think that test worked well, and I invite others to do the same. Remember to set the correct time in your camera. There are apparently still plenty of gaps in the plants images. I've encountered article text which mentioned use as ground cover being popular (added image of a patch of ground cover of that plant), a certain type being popular (added image of it), a tree in winter (added tree with leaves), and articles with closeups but no image of entire plant. ( SEWilco 03:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC))
I can't see any information on how a plant article should be set out. Perhaps it would be good to add such a section to the project page, even just some broad suggestions, to help people in writing. Although it's possible to look at FAs of plants, this would surely be better. Richard001 05:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Can anybody trace out what the heck is supposed to be the proper Latin name (published or not) of this plant? Normal Internet searching has consistently failed me so far. Circeus 02:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Kingdom Plantae
Dasiphora Raf. -- accepted -- shrubby cinquefoil Dasiphora floribunda (Pursh) Kartesz, comb. nov. ined. -- accepted -- shrubby cinquefoil Dasiphora fruticosa auct. non (L.) Rydb. -- not accepted
From ITIS, the Integrated Taxonomic Information System! Hardyplants 04:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Here is the last bit of information I have on this mess:
Check out this web page- the mother load on the names applied to this species or misapplied: http://www.rjb.csic.es/floraiberica/PHP/cientificos2.php?rgen=Potentilla&respe=fruticosa&rinfrank=&rinfra=&rautabre=L.
Hardyplants 22:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I came across some (to me) odd articles, and I wanted some input from people who will probably know more about the subject. The article BBCH-scale seems to me an article about a perfectly valid subject, no problem there, but what about the plant-specific pages linked from there, like BBCH-scale (bean)? They seem to me like excessive detail, and I can hardly imagine that individual BBCH scales are notable enough to be worthy of an article (they aren't linked from anywhere either, which may be an indication). Do the editors of the biology project think that these are (potentially) good article subjects, or am I right that they could better be deleted (while keeping the parent article BBCH scale, which seems to be a fairly widely used system)? 09:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I was assessing a few articles today and cam across one listed in the unassessed articles as Acacia campylacantha, which redirects to Acacia polyacantha subsp. campylacantha. It has been my understanding that subsp. usually should not have their own articles. Is this the case? With this instance, the article Acacia polyacantha subsp. campylacantha and Acacia polyacantha have essentially the same information, so I feel it would be better to treat the subspecies in the main article. Is there a policy for this? Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 15:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Broccoli is of course an obvious example of an appropriate time for a separate article. Thanks for all of the input. There was also some confusion regarding a 'standard' practice in the discussion for the Cannabis article, as some wanted to merge the indica and sativa subsp. with the parent article, though I disagreed. Nonetheless, in the case I mentioned above I think the two should be merged considering the fact that the information is more or less identical in both. Anyone disagree? Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 00:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I think all taxa are notable. Hesperian 06:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
As I'm looking up stuff for a new version of Cornus canadensis, one strange thing is coming up that I can't seem to clear up: Is the subgenus composed of C. canandensis, C. suecica and C. unalaskensis correctly named Arctocrania or Chamaepericlymenum?
I do not have access to Cappiello and Shadow's recent monography (though I plant to get it via interlibrary loan at some point). Anybody knows how good it is? Circeus 17:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
There was a category deleted Category:Plant sexuality, which I thought should stay, but now I see we have Category:Plant reproduction. Is the former completely redundant to the latter, and should I then have it deleted again? KP Botany 19:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
If anything, Plant sexuality would be a subset of Plant reproduction, since not all plants always use sex to reproduce - a major subset for sure. Hardyplants 09:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
What does this mean "class Magnoliopsida [= dicotyledons]?" Brya uses it throughout tons of pages, and I think she means that in this case the usages of Magnoliopsida is synonymous with dicots? It's not real clear what is meant by this, should it be changed, clarified? KP Botany 20:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I think its the other way around, he/she is questening the fact that all Magnoliopsida are dicotyledons or that all dicotyledons are Magnoliopsida. Hardyplants 09:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
MrDarwin, there's an example in Magnoliopsida where it's used throughout the article. I don't see how we can get Hardyplants' usage out of it in this article?
Still, it has to be rewritten throughout into standard English prose, but I'm not sure what to rewrite it as, and not sure it even means the same thing every where. So, maybe some suggestions on what it should mean in this particular article, and I'll go on from there.
Yes, Curtis, scientists use names and words without clear definitions all of the time, botany just does it more often than other areas, and it would be tremendously original of us to not do so, as I argued once with Brya. Which is also why, I wish the lot of you would support me in simply asking that taxoboxes include the name of the classification system they are using as a courtesy to users of the encyclopedia, but I'm almost given up on that one.
So, what should this page say? What does it say? Magnoliopsida KP Botany 19:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Who is the Wikipedia editor who does many of the carnivorous plant articles, and also sometimes participates in discussions on this board, and about California natives? (I have a personal repotting question.) KP Botany 20:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Ask User:Rkitko. Hardyplants 20:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
A question for a specialist of the ICBN. If the original author of a new genus made a mistake in the etymology of the name, is this mistake also accepted by the ICBN ? I refer to the discussion on Talk:Phalaenopsis#Phalaenopsis / etymology. JoJan 20:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Could the name have been derived from a moth taxon - there is a PHALAENIDAE family of moths , I have an old text that lists it as the largest family of months, the pupa of some of them look like whales, this is just a guess - the moth was named first and the plants named after the moths? Hardyplants 21:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Not even that close as far as I can tell. If would be interesting to find out how the name came about. Hardyplants 05:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
As I said on the talk page, Phalaenoptilus also uses "phalaina" as in moth, as does Dendrobium phalaenopsis, so we now have three botanists that think "phalaina" means "moth". I think we can rule out an error. Hesperian 06:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it is not an error, but the word does not appear to mean 'moth' in Greek but 'whale'. So I am still wondering if the moth was named first- because the pupa look like whales and the plants were named after the moths given classification name, which they look like. Hardyplants 06:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
For lack of an official collaboration I have started a list on the collaboration page of biggish articles with quite a bit of content which need predominantly formatting and copyediting (and possibly reffs) which may be within striking distance of GA and not a huge amount of work to get to FAC. Please list any quite large articles which may be appropriate. May be a good place to check once in a while for something for which some groundwork may have been done for a GA/FA assault....cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 08:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I've made an article for the Southeast Asian tree called "poontalai" in Thai (given variously on the Internet as Sterculia lychnophora or Scaphium macropodium. I've made a WP article under the former name, but I wonder where the latter came from, and whether the sources you have access to might say which is the correct Latin name. I appreciate your expert assistance, as always! Badagnani 18:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on a proposal to subsume all the WP:TOL project banners into a single one. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Template union proposal and its talk page. Circeus 19:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been thinking about the Amborella thing, is it correct that with monotypic families the species entry should be at the family level? Is there anything in particular that belongs in the family that shouldn't be on the species page? The only reason initially for creating the Amborellaceae article rather than adding to the Amborella article was that most of the research that changed various plant taxonomies was done on higher level relationships, families into orders. So, should I make the Amborellaceae article (barring coming across something that indicates otherwise) the only article on the plant, and the Amborella page a redirect to Amborellaceae? Should I generally follow this for the other families I'm working on that are monotypic?
KP Botany 20:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
(unindenting)The rule is neither "highest" or "lowest": it is "genus" (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (flora)). As for why, I believe it reflects standard practice in the scientific literature (for example, "That is, in addition to Amborella, Nymphaeaceae sensu APG II (2003) and Austrobaileyales . . ." from [2] - note Amborella not Amborellaceae). In the case of Amborellaceae, there's a lot more information than usual about "where does this genus fit phylogenetically?", so the question is whether to keep family and genus articles separate. My answer: no. If we want two articles, call them Amborella and Taxonomy of Amborella (or perhaps some re-wording of the latter). But there is no particular reason to expect to see the taxonomy information at the family level and everything else at the genus level. Kingdon 19:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Additional sock puppets were found and confirmed by check user (which only confirms that they use the same IP as Brya). [3] To me, the first two looked indisputably like User:Brya sock puppets, and I found them while checking one of the pages edited by one of her other confirmed sock puppets. User:MrDarwin disagrees that these accounts are Brya sock puppets, and posted his disagreement on the check user request.
For all the problems we've had with User:Brya it is, imo, best to request these accounts be blocked as Brya sock puppets. If they are not sock puppets they can contest the blocking. My concern is that not blocking them now will lead to future entanglements with Brya.
CannaCollector's account was created after the RFC, [4] and Canna opened her account with a rather elaborate first contribution. [5] ReadersFavorite edits the same accounts as both Canna and Giants, but was only used briefly. [6] And Giantsshoulders [7] has at least once used a seriously Brya-like edit summary. [8] It was one of these edit summaries that first suggested to me these were also Brya socks.
My concern is that not blocking these sock puppets will be an invitation to Brya to create more sock puppets, and Brya will not hold her temper. Even after User:MrDarwin wrote a rather nice note on her talk page about the sock puppetry accusations, Brya denied that she was ever a problem to the community, and pretty much showed how little she got the point of the RfC, the proposed community ban and RfAr, and ultimate block for being disruptive during discussion of the community ban. [9]
Not run through check user:
In addition there is another account created for the Canna articles, with a similar name, that has not been run throught check user: User:Jumping Jack Flash.
Should I or someone request these additional suspected sock puppets of Brya be banned (based upon Wikipedia policy that banned users are not allowed to use sock puppets to circumvent the ban)?
I didn't post this on the suspected sock puppets' user pages, or notice of this, as, realistically, Brya's only chance, if these are her sock puppets, is not being involved in the conversation; and posting there, if they are Brya socks, will only be provocative. If they're not Brya sock puppets, they won't know what this is about, and even if they are blocked, they will be allowed to contest the block and defend themselves.
I post this here because of MrDarwin's comment on the checkuser that he does not think these are Brya sock puppets, so the issue requires additional community input.
KP Botany 21:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Could somebody please copyedit? Do you think it was a right edit to do? Aelwyn 15:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Common names are to redirect to scientific names. Does this rule apply only to relatively unknown species like Drosera anglica or also to more common plants? I mean, are articles like Dandelion, Greater celandine, St. John's wort incorrectly named? Aelwyn 21:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
What about common names that refer to more than one genus? A while back when i was new to wikipedia I created a page for chickweed because it is commonly used for a number of different plants- was I wrong and how should I correct it. Hardyplants 06:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
well, i was wishing to rewrite the article so that i can nominate it for FAC. what i need to do is that i want to remove all the content and restart with the artile. can i remove the content in order to have a new start up. within six days i will definetly try to pass it for GAC. Sushant gupta ( talk · contribs) 14:28, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know how well it would work, but I spent 4 hours at the nearest arboretum with two digital cameras, extra batteries, water, sunscreen, long sleeves, and a wide-brimmed hat. Covered about 1/8 of the land. Got 350 pictures in 500 Mb, but only about 175 plant photos due to photos of labels (fast way of taking notes and I had 2,500 Mb of storage with me). Looks like about 20% of the pictures will end up on Wikipedia, and I'm not bothering to add yet-another-petunia images. I think that test worked well, and I invite others to do the same. Remember to set the correct time in your camera. There are apparently still plenty of gaps in the plants images. I've encountered article text which mentioned use as ground cover being popular (added image of a patch of ground cover of that plant), a certain type being popular (added image of it), a tree in winter (added tree with leaves), and articles with closeups but no image of entire plant. ( SEWilco 03:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC))
I can't see any information on how a plant article should be set out. Perhaps it would be good to add such a section to the project page, even just some broad suggestions, to help people in writing. Although it's possible to look at FAs of plants, this would surely be better. Richard001 05:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Can anybody trace out what the heck is supposed to be the proper Latin name (published or not) of this plant? Normal Internet searching has consistently failed me so far. Circeus 02:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Kingdom Plantae
Dasiphora Raf. -- accepted -- shrubby cinquefoil Dasiphora floribunda (Pursh) Kartesz, comb. nov. ined. -- accepted -- shrubby cinquefoil Dasiphora fruticosa auct. non (L.) Rydb. -- not accepted
From ITIS, the Integrated Taxonomic Information System! Hardyplants 04:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Here is the last bit of information I have on this mess:
Check out this web page- the mother load on the names applied to this species or misapplied: http://www.rjb.csic.es/floraiberica/PHP/cientificos2.php?rgen=Potentilla&respe=fruticosa&rinfrank=&rinfra=&rautabre=L.
Hardyplants 22:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I came across some (to me) odd articles, and I wanted some input from people who will probably know more about the subject. The article BBCH-scale seems to me an article about a perfectly valid subject, no problem there, but what about the plant-specific pages linked from there, like BBCH-scale (bean)? They seem to me like excessive detail, and I can hardly imagine that individual BBCH scales are notable enough to be worthy of an article (they aren't linked from anywhere either, which may be an indication). Do the editors of the biology project think that these are (potentially) good article subjects, or am I right that they could better be deleted (while keeping the parent article BBCH scale, which seems to be a fairly widely used system)? 09:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I was assessing a few articles today and cam across one listed in the unassessed articles as Acacia campylacantha, which redirects to Acacia polyacantha subsp. campylacantha. It has been my understanding that subsp. usually should not have their own articles. Is this the case? With this instance, the article Acacia polyacantha subsp. campylacantha and Acacia polyacantha have essentially the same information, so I feel it would be better to treat the subspecies in the main article. Is there a policy for this? Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 15:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Broccoli is of course an obvious example of an appropriate time for a separate article. Thanks for all of the input. There was also some confusion regarding a 'standard' practice in the discussion for the Cannabis article, as some wanted to merge the indica and sativa subsp. with the parent article, though I disagreed. Nonetheless, in the case I mentioned above I think the two should be merged considering the fact that the information is more or less identical in both. Anyone disagree? Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 00:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I think all taxa are notable. Hesperian 06:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)