This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | ← | Archive 78 | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | Archive 81 | Archive 82 | → | Archive 85 |
I have submitted a request at Wikipedia:Portal peer review to review our portal for the nomination. I believe with our teamworks to improve the quality of our articles and portal, our portal may be able get the Featured Portal status. You can participate in the discussion, support, etc in here - Jay ( talk) 05:11, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
As per the various discussions here, I've done some updating of the guidelines on the main page:
Operas: avoiding ambiguity - made the guidelines clearer
Moving pages to new titles - added this section
Role tables - added remarks about avoiding over-categorization of voice types
Operas: original language titles - clarified this one too, per several older and extraordinarily tiresome discussions, e.g. here [2], [3] and elsewhere [4]
Give a shout if you have any objections, changes, etc. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 17:56, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
From our main page:
“ | We recommend referring to the first line in the original language (in italics), followed by the popular title (if there is one) or English translation. Thus Près des remparts de Séville (The Seguidilla) and La donna è mobile (Woman is Fickle). | ” |
Shouldn't it be "Woman is fickle"? In English opera, names of songs based on the first line use sentence capitalisation, e.g "If you're anxious for to shine" from Patience, or "I am the very model of a modern Major-General" (from The Pirates of Penzance). Unless a very different standard is in use, I think we should keep that for translations. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 00:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I have just created in the Italian Wikipedia a new article concerning the 18th century's soprano Brigida Banti and I have also translated it into ... English. I have thus had to meet again with article naming problems. Her baptism name was Brigida Giorgi; after getting married, she adopted her husband's surname as her stage-name. So I have found several versions of her current name: Brigida Banti, Brigida Banti Giorgi, Brigida Giorgi Banti and, in the French Wikipedia, even Brigida Banti-Giorgi. In the Italian Wikipedia I have named the article it:Brigida Banti (with a redirection from Brigida Banti Giorgi), and so have I temporarily done in the English Wikipedia (without any redirection), expecting that someone of you would change it according to your established guidelines. All the best. Jeanambr ( talk) 14:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Jay has just created Template:Bernstein operas which is in keeping with the standard wikiproject opera format. However, there is already a Template:Musicals and operas of Leonard Bernstein which includes many of the same works. I'm don't think we need both. What do you all think? Nrswanson ( talk) 21:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Admittedly, he's not performed much now. But should we leave the works that invented the artform: Dafne, Euridice (opera), and the people responsible, Jacopo Peri and Ottavio Rinuccini, in such appalling shape? While we're at it, how about we throw in Opera itself, which is full of infelicities, insufficiently captioned images, and could probably do with adding in a few of these sound files that I've been working on (and a few more composers, perhaps - just ask as needed and I'll make up a couple and we can choose the best.)
Obviously, March is the Handel push. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 15:46, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
In looking over the article on Moses und Aron (the February project), I finally saw the link to the 1973 film of the opera. Shouldn't that film be considered part of this opera project? Or does this project limit its scope to only stage productions? -- kosboot ( talk) 13:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Um... First of all a project banner does not confer "jurisdiction" over an article, it merely highlights that the article is within the scope of a project. Project banners serve two different but related purposes. The primary one is so that the relevant project(s) can keep track of the articles within their scope, for maintenance, clean-up, expansion, etc. But another important one is to provide a link to a place where other editors (who may be unfamiliar with the subject) can seek advice or get expert help. Double bannering is not a pestilence to be eradicated at all costs, especially when it can be helpful to other editors, and especially when there little or no overlap between the projects. I prefer common sense and flexibility when a link to this project would be a useful resource for the article's talk page.
In the case of conductors, virtually all of them conduct many other things besides operas. The same applies to most directors and even librettists. But I see no reason why films like Carmen, Otello, La Traviata that use opera singers, actually singing their parts and are largely faithful to the stage version shouldn't have an opera banner too. Incidentally, Carmen (1984 film) was begun as a stub by a member of the Opera Project in 2005 and has remained that way ever since. The banner was later placed by the Film Project but they haven't expanded it. I would imagine it's very low down on their list of priorities. We need to give full weight to the medium. Since it is film, then the WP conventions for film articles should be deferred to, but that's not a big deal. Voceditenore ( talk) 17:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
PS Articles about opera recordings (not just discographies) currently do fall under the scope of this project. [7]. This is primarily true of recordings of complete operas or excerpts from a single opera. Voceditenore ( talk) 18:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
I found it extremely helpful when we did a to do list for Puccini and since we haven't done much work yet on Pelléas et Mélisande (opera), etc. I thought it would be useful. After all we only have ten more days. I didn't get to every article so others may want to add to this list:
Feel free to add to the list or cross things out when they are done. Nrswanson ( talk) 01:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
If someone can find a copy ofthe Mary Garden recording - however badly preserved - I'll gladly clean it. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 07:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | ← | Archive 78 | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | Archive 81 | Archive 82 | → | Archive 85 |
I have submitted a request at Wikipedia:Portal peer review to review our portal for the nomination. I believe with our teamworks to improve the quality of our articles and portal, our portal may be able get the Featured Portal status. You can participate in the discussion, support, etc in here - Jay ( talk) 05:11, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
As per the various discussions here, I've done some updating of the guidelines on the main page:
Operas: avoiding ambiguity - made the guidelines clearer
Moving pages to new titles - added this section
Role tables - added remarks about avoiding over-categorization of voice types
Operas: original language titles - clarified this one too, per several older and extraordinarily tiresome discussions, e.g. here [2], [3] and elsewhere [4]
Give a shout if you have any objections, changes, etc. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 17:56, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
From our main page:
“ | We recommend referring to the first line in the original language (in italics), followed by the popular title (if there is one) or English translation. Thus Près des remparts de Séville (The Seguidilla) and La donna è mobile (Woman is Fickle). | ” |
Shouldn't it be "Woman is fickle"? In English opera, names of songs based on the first line use sentence capitalisation, e.g "If you're anxious for to shine" from Patience, or "I am the very model of a modern Major-General" (from The Pirates of Penzance). Unless a very different standard is in use, I think we should keep that for translations. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 00:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I have just created in the Italian Wikipedia a new article concerning the 18th century's soprano Brigida Banti and I have also translated it into ... English. I have thus had to meet again with article naming problems. Her baptism name was Brigida Giorgi; after getting married, she adopted her husband's surname as her stage-name. So I have found several versions of her current name: Brigida Banti, Brigida Banti Giorgi, Brigida Giorgi Banti and, in the French Wikipedia, even Brigida Banti-Giorgi. In the Italian Wikipedia I have named the article it:Brigida Banti (with a redirection from Brigida Banti Giorgi), and so have I temporarily done in the English Wikipedia (without any redirection), expecting that someone of you would change it according to your established guidelines. All the best. Jeanambr ( talk) 14:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Jay has just created Template:Bernstein operas which is in keeping with the standard wikiproject opera format. However, there is already a Template:Musicals and operas of Leonard Bernstein which includes many of the same works. I'm don't think we need both. What do you all think? Nrswanson ( talk) 21:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Admittedly, he's not performed much now. But should we leave the works that invented the artform: Dafne, Euridice (opera), and the people responsible, Jacopo Peri and Ottavio Rinuccini, in such appalling shape? While we're at it, how about we throw in Opera itself, which is full of infelicities, insufficiently captioned images, and could probably do with adding in a few of these sound files that I've been working on (and a few more composers, perhaps - just ask as needed and I'll make up a couple and we can choose the best.)
Obviously, March is the Handel push. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 15:46, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
In looking over the article on Moses und Aron (the February project), I finally saw the link to the 1973 film of the opera. Shouldn't that film be considered part of this opera project? Or does this project limit its scope to only stage productions? -- kosboot ( talk) 13:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Um... First of all a project banner does not confer "jurisdiction" over an article, it merely highlights that the article is within the scope of a project. Project banners serve two different but related purposes. The primary one is so that the relevant project(s) can keep track of the articles within their scope, for maintenance, clean-up, expansion, etc. But another important one is to provide a link to a place where other editors (who may be unfamiliar with the subject) can seek advice or get expert help. Double bannering is not a pestilence to be eradicated at all costs, especially when it can be helpful to other editors, and especially when there little or no overlap between the projects. I prefer common sense and flexibility when a link to this project would be a useful resource for the article's talk page.
In the case of conductors, virtually all of them conduct many other things besides operas. The same applies to most directors and even librettists. But I see no reason why films like Carmen, Otello, La Traviata that use opera singers, actually singing their parts and are largely faithful to the stage version shouldn't have an opera banner too. Incidentally, Carmen (1984 film) was begun as a stub by a member of the Opera Project in 2005 and has remained that way ever since. The banner was later placed by the Film Project but they haven't expanded it. I would imagine it's very low down on their list of priorities. We need to give full weight to the medium. Since it is film, then the WP conventions for film articles should be deferred to, but that's not a big deal. Voceditenore ( talk) 17:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
PS Articles about opera recordings (not just discographies) currently do fall under the scope of this project. [7]. This is primarily true of recordings of complete operas or excerpts from a single opera. Voceditenore ( talk) 18:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
I found it extremely helpful when we did a to do list for Puccini and since we haven't done much work yet on Pelléas et Mélisande (opera), etc. I thought it would be useful. After all we only have ten more days. I didn't get to every article so others may want to add to this list:
Feel free to add to the list or cross things out when they are done. Nrswanson ( talk) 01:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
If someone can find a copy ofthe Mary Garden recording - however badly preserved - I'll gladly clean it. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 07:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)