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What does everyone think? Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 16:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
New section * Selected audio for October:
* Selected audio for November:
Please let me know before 29th if you have any other suggestion. Thanks - Jay ( talk) 01:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I am not really "into" Rossini's, I cant tell any of his famous arias but we could use Jules Massenet's "Pleurez, pleurez, mes yeux" for October audio. However, if you coud get "O souverain, o juge, o père" (Massenet's Le Cid) or "Ah, fuyez douce image" Massenet's Manon would be much better - its like extra bonus! - Jay ( talk) 09:08, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Shoemaker's Holiday or others, is it possible for you to get famous arias audio such as below (and many more of course)? I been thinking, it is best to feature famous arias recording in our portal.
Some possibilities:
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 18:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Some possibilities. (Note: I would find it extremely difficult myself to create even stubs for the operas in Option 1). -- Folantin ( talk) 09:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Isn't the Birtwhistle typo'd? That translates as "one one three", I think the second word should probably be "Tan" (two). Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 13:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Folantin, tomorrow's October 1st. Maybe it would be a good idea to put the C20 Brits in the box above, pending any last minute changes or suggestions? Otherwise, CoM section on the main OP page will automatically turn up blank. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 13:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
This really got lost in the shuffle or should I say kerfuffle? Unless anyone has any suggestions I propose to hold over this months' group:
Distinguished sopranos who still lack Wikipedia articles:
Eugenia Burzio, Lina Bruna Rasa, Celestina Boninsegna, Eidé Norena, Lotte Schöne, and Oda Slobodskaya.
(I've taken out Olimpia Boronat who now has an article.) Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 16:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
This article is at AfD, if any members want to comment, particularly those familiar with the Australian opera scene. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 18:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
There is a problem here. I won't take part to the debate (I have some limitations of time and prefer to spend it to improve it.wiki), but maybe somebody could like to read this page and correct a statement ascribed to Puccini. Anyway, you can find me on it.wiki. Thanks. Al Pereira (talk) 01:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
"Villi" is normally treated as a proper noun in Italian when rendering the title. An operatic example of a group being given proper noun status would be I Lombardi alla prima crociata. It's a problematic area with a fair amount of variation in both Italian and English. Non operatic examples would be groups like the "Muse" Muses, "Sirene" ( Sirens) and "Furie" ( Furies)). The word "ninfa" ( nymph) is not capitalized but the various sub-groups of nymphs are, e.g. "Pleiadi" Pleiades. In this (isolated) case, I'm inclined to give more authority to the Centro studi Giacomo Puccini: Catalogo delle opere teatrali than to Grove. But that's just my personal opinion. I'll copy this to the Le villi talk page. Perhaps other OP members who have views on this could weigh in there. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 06:09, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I'd really appreciate if WikiProject Opera would participate in voting on and nominating featured sounds - I don't mind if you nominate the ones I've restored that haven't yet been, in fact, I'd probably preferr it - it just looks bad when one name predominates as nominator, but if I don't nominate them, then there aren't candidates for that day, and there's no reason for people to go to Featured sounds. So, you know... have to try and do the lesser of two evils, and that's nominating. But if WikiProject Opera would take over opera nominations, then it wouldn't be so bad =) Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 13:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
User:Markhh has added "Metropolitan Opera category" in more than 20 articles including "oil and gas company", opera singers etc. I am currently revert all the changes he made - Jay ( talk) 05:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes most of the ones in the cat are clearly and directly relevant to it. By the way, Jay, I reverted your edit at Mapleson Cylinders. First of all, the Mapleson Cylinders are directly relevant to this category and an important part of its history. Secondly, in the process of undoing Markhh's edits, you completely deleted a valid reference, as well as the live link to the text in a second reference. Jay, I also disagree with many of your other removals, especially the articles on the various Met directors, e.g. Gelb, Bing, etc. They were/are key figures in its history. I would agree that putting individual operas, singers and conductors, even ones closely associated with the Met, is probably not a good idea, unless they held an official position there, e.g. Giulio Gatti-Casazza who was a director of the Met. Ditto Texaco, although a separate article on the Texaco broadcasts would be OK. The Met category is useful for for readers. It doesn't impact at all on the OP category system. Can we please be more thoughtful about this. Voceditenore ( talk) 06:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
It is better to discuss about it in a single talkpage (here) instead of talking about it in multiple talk pages, like in this case, the changes have been made to many artcles. Besides, not everybody read article talk page. This is also to avoid edit warring - Jay ( talk) 07:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate all of the comments. I certainly intended no controversy by adding a new Met category. I would also like to make a case that the operas Königskinder, Trittico, Fanciulla, Vanessa, and Antony are also appropriate. They were written for, and premiered at the Met. Antony, at the least, especially so. It is indelibly linked with the impressions made at the Met's Lincoln Center opening and so a key point in Met history. I'll be happy to go by the consensus here, however. Best wishes Markhh ( talk) 07:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I think the idea of a separate list page of Met world premieres is a good one. I can see that adding operas is to Met category is a little dicey. I've not seen any further comment regarding the official Met broadcasters. As mentioned above, these are people whose fame is almost completely related to their long associations with the Met. Also I think Toscanini should definitely be added. While he did not have the official title, he was in all respects the music director of the Met. Working with Gatti-Casazza who expressly brought him to revamp the Met's orchestra and repertoire, he influenced the company's level of performance and rep etc. Gentele too should be added. He died before his first season began but his association with the company is strong and in his short time he created a new production and laid out other ideas. After that I think the Met cat would be complete. Best, Markhh ( talk) 17:39, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Comment Re adding articles to Category:Metropolitan Opera. I'd personally hold off adding Toscanini until the article about him has more (referenced) information about his relation to the Met. At the moment, here's all it says:
Otherwise, you risk just about every conductor who ever worked there being added. Gentele is already added so that's OK, and again, I see nothing wrong with adding the broadcasters I mentioned above. Just go ahead and do it. Category:Metropolitan Opera is not a sub-category of Category:Opera so we won't have problems of those articles being bot-bannered with our project, which would be inappropriate. To avoid confusion and possible mis-categorization, I'd recommend that you add a brief explanation on the Category:Metropolitan Opera and Category:Metropolitan Opera world premieres pages explaining what the scope of each category is and isn't.
An annotated List of operas premiered at the Met (in addition to the sub-cat) is still a possibility and would have the advantage that you could also include US premieres on it. Something to think about for the future. Best wishes, Voceditenore ( talk) 09:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 23:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I think Act II's right? I don't actually know Manon that well. (I want to now, but don't yet.) Bonus: We finally have a recording for Farrar. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 04:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
This article is being considered for deletion here, if any members wish to comment. Voceditenore ( talk) 03:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 65 | ← | Archive 68 | Archive 69 | Archive 70 | Archive 71 | Archive 72 | → | Archive 75 |
What does everyone think? Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 16:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
New section * Selected audio for October:
* Selected audio for November:
Please let me know before 29th if you have any other suggestion. Thanks - Jay ( talk) 01:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I am not really "into" Rossini's, I cant tell any of his famous arias but we could use Jules Massenet's "Pleurez, pleurez, mes yeux" for October audio. However, if you coud get "O souverain, o juge, o père" (Massenet's Le Cid) or "Ah, fuyez douce image" Massenet's Manon would be much better - its like extra bonus! - Jay ( talk) 09:08, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Shoemaker's Holiday or others, is it possible for you to get famous arias audio such as below (and many more of course)? I been thinking, it is best to feature famous arias recording in our portal.
Some possibilities:
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 18:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Some possibilities. (Note: I would find it extremely difficult myself to create even stubs for the operas in Option 1). -- Folantin ( talk) 09:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Isn't the Birtwhistle typo'd? That translates as "one one three", I think the second word should probably be "Tan" (two). Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 13:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Folantin, tomorrow's October 1st. Maybe it would be a good idea to put the C20 Brits in the box above, pending any last minute changes or suggestions? Otherwise, CoM section on the main OP page will automatically turn up blank. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 13:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
This really got lost in the shuffle or should I say kerfuffle? Unless anyone has any suggestions I propose to hold over this months' group:
Distinguished sopranos who still lack Wikipedia articles:
Eugenia Burzio, Lina Bruna Rasa, Celestina Boninsegna, Eidé Norena, Lotte Schöne, and Oda Slobodskaya.
(I've taken out Olimpia Boronat who now has an article.) Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 16:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
This article is at AfD, if any members want to comment, particularly those familiar with the Australian opera scene. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 18:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
There is a problem here. I won't take part to the debate (I have some limitations of time and prefer to spend it to improve it.wiki), but maybe somebody could like to read this page and correct a statement ascribed to Puccini. Anyway, you can find me on it.wiki. Thanks. Al Pereira (talk) 01:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
"Villi" is normally treated as a proper noun in Italian when rendering the title. An operatic example of a group being given proper noun status would be I Lombardi alla prima crociata. It's a problematic area with a fair amount of variation in both Italian and English. Non operatic examples would be groups like the "Muse" Muses, "Sirene" ( Sirens) and "Furie" ( Furies)). The word "ninfa" ( nymph) is not capitalized but the various sub-groups of nymphs are, e.g. "Pleiadi" Pleiades. In this (isolated) case, I'm inclined to give more authority to the Centro studi Giacomo Puccini: Catalogo delle opere teatrali than to Grove. But that's just my personal opinion. I'll copy this to the Le villi talk page. Perhaps other OP members who have views on this could weigh in there. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 06:09, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I'd really appreciate if WikiProject Opera would participate in voting on and nominating featured sounds - I don't mind if you nominate the ones I've restored that haven't yet been, in fact, I'd probably preferr it - it just looks bad when one name predominates as nominator, but if I don't nominate them, then there aren't candidates for that day, and there's no reason for people to go to Featured sounds. So, you know... have to try and do the lesser of two evils, and that's nominating. But if WikiProject Opera would take over opera nominations, then it wouldn't be so bad =) Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 13:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
User:Markhh has added "Metropolitan Opera category" in more than 20 articles including "oil and gas company", opera singers etc. I am currently revert all the changes he made - Jay ( talk) 05:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes most of the ones in the cat are clearly and directly relevant to it. By the way, Jay, I reverted your edit at Mapleson Cylinders. First of all, the Mapleson Cylinders are directly relevant to this category and an important part of its history. Secondly, in the process of undoing Markhh's edits, you completely deleted a valid reference, as well as the live link to the text in a second reference. Jay, I also disagree with many of your other removals, especially the articles on the various Met directors, e.g. Gelb, Bing, etc. They were/are key figures in its history. I would agree that putting individual operas, singers and conductors, even ones closely associated with the Met, is probably not a good idea, unless they held an official position there, e.g. Giulio Gatti-Casazza who was a director of the Met. Ditto Texaco, although a separate article on the Texaco broadcasts would be OK. The Met category is useful for for readers. It doesn't impact at all on the OP category system. Can we please be more thoughtful about this. Voceditenore ( talk) 06:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
It is better to discuss about it in a single talkpage (here) instead of talking about it in multiple talk pages, like in this case, the changes have been made to many artcles. Besides, not everybody read article talk page. This is also to avoid edit warring - Jay ( talk) 07:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate all of the comments. I certainly intended no controversy by adding a new Met category. I would also like to make a case that the operas Königskinder, Trittico, Fanciulla, Vanessa, and Antony are also appropriate. They were written for, and premiered at the Met. Antony, at the least, especially so. It is indelibly linked with the impressions made at the Met's Lincoln Center opening and so a key point in Met history. I'll be happy to go by the consensus here, however. Best wishes Markhh ( talk) 07:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I think the idea of a separate list page of Met world premieres is a good one. I can see that adding operas is to Met category is a little dicey. I've not seen any further comment regarding the official Met broadcasters. As mentioned above, these are people whose fame is almost completely related to their long associations with the Met. Also I think Toscanini should definitely be added. While he did not have the official title, he was in all respects the music director of the Met. Working with Gatti-Casazza who expressly brought him to revamp the Met's orchestra and repertoire, he influenced the company's level of performance and rep etc. Gentele too should be added. He died before his first season began but his association with the company is strong and in his short time he created a new production and laid out other ideas. After that I think the Met cat would be complete. Best, Markhh ( talk) 17:39, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Comment Re adding articles to Category:Metropolitan Opera. I'd personally hold off adding Toscanini until the article about him has more (referenced) information about his relation to the Met. At the moment, here's all it says:
Otherwise, you risk just about every conductor who ever worked there being added. Gentele is already added so that's OK, and again, I see nothing wrong with adding the broadcasters I mentioned above. Just go ahead and do it. Category:Metropolitan Opera is not a sub-category of Category:Opera so we won't have problems of those articles being bot-bannered with our project, which would be inappropriate. To avoid confusion and possible mis-categorization, I'd recommend that you add a brief explanation on the Category:Metropolitan Opera and Category:Metropolitan Opera world premieres pages explaining what the scope of each category is and isn't.
An annotated List of operas premiered at the Met (in addition to the sub-cat) is still a possibility and would have the advantage that you could also include US premieres on it. Something to think about for the future. Best wishes, Voceditenore ( talk) 09:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 23:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I think Act II's right? I don't actually know Manon that well. (I want to now, but don't yet.) Bonus: We finally have a recording for Farrar. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 04:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
This article is being considered for deletion here, if any members wish to comment. Voceditenore ( talk) 03:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)