This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 65 | Archive 66 | Archive 67 | Archive 68 | Archive 69 | Archive 70 | → | Archive 75 |
I've contacted Michael Bednarek about, inter alia, the role table in the forthcoming Love and Other Demons. He's wikilinked the singers who already have WP entries, but instead of redlinking or not linking the rest, he's put in external links to their bios on the Glyndebourne website. I don't think that we've done anything like this before, and I'm not sure it's a very good idea - see our correspondence here. Anyone thoughts, anyone? -- Guillaume Tell 16:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately we haven't made any progress on this problem during the last week. According to Michael Bednarek "this issue is very low on my to-do list because I consider the current state not as unsatisfactory" (sic).
The Wikipedia:External links guideline ( "a generally accepted standard that editors should follow, though it should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception" ) - includes:
"Important points to remember 3. External links should not normally be used in the body of an article; . . . Instead, include appropriate external links in an "External links" section at the end and/or in the appropriate location within an infobox or navbox."
However Michael Bednarek says:
"AFAIK there is no policy prohibiting external links in the body of an article, only a guideline ( MOS:LINK) . . . . I don't see a problem. I didn't breach any policy. The guideline allows exceptions, and I believe those can and should be applied where I used this style of linking. . . ."
However five, six or seven 'exceptions' on each page can't be called 'occasional'. I'm asking Michael Bednarek to kindly reconsider reverting his edits. So far we know this involves Love and Other Demons, The Fly (opera) and Chlestakows Wiederkehr, maybe other pages as well. -- Klein zach 05:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Adopting an idea from the Ballet Project, I've added a book icon (to show access to reference works) to the list of participants on the project page here. This is an experiment. If there are any objections, I'll remove it - otherwise please make use of it! -- Klein zach 00:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that there are no discographies for opera singers like Pavarotti and Domingo. Are discographies frowned on? Should I include them? Copana2002 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Pardon the out-dent - but continuing from Kleinzach - at its most simple, a discography may seem like a list, but true discographies give much more information than just what was recorded, to providing not just context but details of recording (I'm sure every one of those Pelleas recordings are much more complex than indicated). But to get to the practical matter of considering whether discographies should be included in Wikipedia Opera Project articles, I would say that a good quality discography is beyond the scope of Wikipedia, and that authors should refer to published discographies. As a consolation, they could mention "a number" of representative recordings. The aim would be to relieve Wikipedia participants from assembling extensive lists, particularly if they are just copied from published sources. Having seen bad and good discographies, and knowing how useful a good discography can be (and what an immense amount of work they can be), I feel strongly about it. But if everyone overrules me - I accept it. -- kosboot ( talk) 13:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for deletion. Nrswanson ( talk) 00:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I have a quick question about orchestra instrumentation in operas. Should we use orchestra instrumentation for any opera? I am a new member here at this Wikiproject, but I have been an experienced editor at Wikipedia. Any helpful information is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Greg Jones II 02:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Will we continue with the list of individual operas by significant composers? With the early 20th century? This is the list we have at the moment:
- 1901: Die Rose vom Liebesgarten by Hans Pfitzner (1869-1949)
- 1903: Die Odyssee by August Bungert (1845-1915)
- 1915: Dèbora e Jaéle by Ildebrando Pizzetti (1880-1968)
1919: Mörder, Hoffnung der Frauen by Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)- 1920: Die Vögel by Walter Braunfels (1882-1954)
1920: Das Nusch-Nuschi by Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)- 1925: I cavalieri di Ekebù by Riccardo Zandonai (1883-1944)
1929: Neues vom Tage by Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)- 1932: Maria Egiziaca by Ottorino Respighi (1879-1936)
- 1940: Romeo und Julia by Heinrich Sutermeister (1910-1995)
Any thoughts? Additional works? Thanks. -- Klein zach 23:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty much back in action now. I'm happy with the above list, and can volunteer to do the Zandonai, Maw and Turnage. I'll try and beef up some of the August ones (e.g. Evangelimann, Vestale) as well before the 31st. -- Guillaume Tell 10:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't really want to get into all the arguments about the name on the talk page but surely The Tales of Hoffman (single "n") is wrong. Can we move it to a "Hoffmann" version? -- Folantin ( talk) 08:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Several bots are being used to automatically rewrite references with sometimes unpredictable results. I and some other editors have already complained about Polbot, see here, but there seem to be others (e.g. DumZiBoT). It seems approval has been given prematurely to bot operations which should really have been tested first. Problems can be reported to the Bot owners' noticeboard. -- Klein zach 00:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for deletion. Nrswanson ( talk) 08:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
"The result was Keep. This discussion requires the attention of an expert in the subject; as most of the opinions here came with a built-in disclaimer. If somebody can locate an authoritative reference on this subject or an expert who can shed some light on the matter, then it would be wise to relist this at that time. As it was, however, there was no consensus for deletion, and the deletion policy advises we lean toward keep in such situations."
As I've kind of become the unofficial director of the featured sound process, I just wanted to encourage everyone here that, if they can find any public domain or otherwise free-use recordings of music that we would welcome your suggestions for featured sounds at WP:FSC. =) Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 11:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this page for deletion. As you all may know, I am generally a supporter of articles on notable amateur companies when well wriiten/sourced but this one has no references, was created by an SPA, and I think may be trying to establish itself as a professional institution, a fact which is highly unclear given the company's history and the company's lack of participation in organizations like OPERA America. All comments welcome. Nrswanson ( talk) 18:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEG3yZ4e_hY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.171.28 ( talk) 21:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Union Avenue Opera is a professional company and has been paying singers for over 10 years. While they are cosidered a "D" house in terms of budget and size, I can assure you that they are professional and their productions are generally quite good. The orchestra contains many people from the St. Louis Symphony. In recent years, they have been able to hire a few more notable singers, as their budget increases. The chorus is also paid....not the church choir, believe me! Singers are flown in and housed at donors homes- just like Opera Theatre of St. Louis. You could consider Union Avenue Opera to be the "New York City Opera" of St. Louis, with Opera Theatre of St. Louis being the "Met" of St. Louis. Hope this helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.171.28 ( talk) 21:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
The result was no consensus/default keep. -- Klein zach 03:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I have recently come across a bit of a conumdrum on the Pietro Mascagni article. I have found evidence of some additional operas by the composer such as I Bianchi ed i Neri at here and in this Opera News article here. However another editor Ebruchez ( talk · contribs) (oddly an SPA on Pietro Mascagni since 2006) insists they do not exist in spite of the evidence. I myself am not a Mascagni authority but having found two different references (at least to the one opera) from what I have always found to be reliable sources it makes we question the claim of Ebruchez. Can anyone clarify? See Talk:Pietro Mascagni also. Thanks. Nrswanson ( talk) 05:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether we should have a policy of not using the Stanford OperaGlass as a first source - only as a supporting one? I don't think it's reliable enough to use for unsupported information. -- Klein zach 01:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
According to CatScan, there are 38 articles under Category:Opera stubs which could be marked with some type of opera-bio-stub, including articles from Category:Opera critics, Category:Opera composers, Category:Opera directors, Category:Opera managers, Category:Opera designers, and Category:Opera librettists. Other types which would be less viable would be Category:Opera houses (18 articles) & Category:Opera festivals (10). Although the Opera Project has done some superb housecleaning as noted above, if they are amenable to any further splits I would suggest a {{ opera-bio-stub}} per the numbers I have given. Her Pegship (tis herself) 19:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations to everyone! Article 5,000 ( La púrpura de la rosa) is up and running. It needs work though. I created it quickly so that we would have an interesting article in terms of opera history as we hit the benchmark. All help is welcome. Nrswanson ( talk) 18:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to VoceDiTenore, I think this is now up to at least good article article standard. Would anyone like to propose it? As a contributor I don't think I should do this myself. -- Klein zach 00:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
If we are going to blow our trumpet - and non-one else is going to do it for us - now is the time! People in the opera world are largely unaware of our work. They associate Wikipedia with internet/tech, popular culture. WP Science articles have been in the media spotlight, but not arts ones.
Should we do some short press releases to send to the main opera publications, houses etc? (The necessary contact details are available.) If so, could we have volunteers to represent us? Maybe one in Britain and one in the States? Communications of this kind would need to be made with real names and addresses etc. (I'm in Japan so I don't qualify for the job, though I can do a notice for Opera-L.) P.S. I'm less keen on celebrating here on WP, because we may just be regarded as a juicy (i.e. edit-count-spree) dataset, and there's the usual prospect of being accused of 'ownership'. -- Klein zach 04:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous IP has been adding links to pages in the International Jose Guillermo Carrillo Foundation sound archives, e.g. [2]. (Foundation appears to be linked to the Universitario de Tecnología Industrial “Rodolfo Loero Arismendi” in Venezuela.) The files are good quality, but two issues:
Perhaps someone else could take a look at articles in Special:Contributions/190.200.116.70? Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 11:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I’m confused with Leonard Bernstein status. Is he an opera composer or musical theatre composer? I am currently checking opera corpus list – to create navigation template for composers with more than 3 articles created. I don’t know whether I should create "Opera template" for his articles, I don’t know whether his works can be considered "opera" or "half opera"? What do you guys think? Refer Opera corpus entry Leonard Bernstein (1918–1990): Candide, A Quiet Place, Trouble in Tahiti, West Side Story. - Jay ( talk) 13:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Candide, A Quiet Place and West Side Story all have their own entries in Opera Grove. But I agree that "Stage works by..." is the way to go. -- Guillaume Tell 00:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
This article had a preamble that explains the selection criteria: "The principal works of the major composers are given as well as those of historical importance in the development of the art form. . . . This list is intended to be a selective one of notable works."
We've encouraged editors to put complete lists of works in biographical articles, while using The opera corpus to list major works for which we intended to write articles. The standard for 'major works' being a dedicated article in Grove or similar publication. (All operas that already have articles have also been added to the list.)
Up to 6 September The opera corpus was a stable and slowly growing list for which there were accurate stats. Unfortunately since then we've seen a huge number of edits - both additions and deletions. This threatens the usefulness of a unique list of major works that's been our roadmap for developing coverage. I've asked the editors involved to stop working on the list so we re-establish the integrity of the article. Perhaps we should discuss problems, issues here? -- Klein zach 01:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
So, what is the purpose of The Opera Corpus? Is the list intended to be:
If so, then I take it that at some point, when every article has been created that ought to be, The Opera Corpus would simply be a total index of WikiProject Opera, sorted by composer. Is that correct? Marc Shepherd ( talk) 12:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I've raised the issue of sound clips, especially those of the Fulda Symphonic Orchestra, on the Classical Music Project here. Some of the recordings are of opera overtures, e.g. Tristan and Don Giovanni. -- Klein zach 09:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
About half done with making a start class/C-class article on this. It's going to lack criticism and such, but, eh, it'll contain all the basic information on the opera, plus a sound recording. That's not a bad start. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 17:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Méhul I think deserves an upgrade from start- certainly to C....-- Smerus ( talk) 08:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Don’t you think Ambrosian Singers (or sometimes known as Ambrosian Chorus) should be under Opera project? They have recorded more than hundred recordings of full length opera (probably thousands) with many renowned opera singers. The article ( Ambrosian Singers) makes the group sounds like a bunch of "Christmas carol singers" or pop/rock background singers without mentioning anything about their participations in opera. What a shame, these people are damn great opera chorus! - Jay ( talk) 12:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
They've done a lot of symphonic choral music, oratorios, sacred music, etc. etc. not just opera. See for example: [6]. I think the Classical Music Project banner is more appropriate. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Since I got on Wikipedia years ago, I was surprised not to find an article with this topic, although numerous articles mention the cylinders. So I have created an article - not too long, so the rest of you can fill in what you think is valuable. I've not put in the template of the WikiOpera Project, figuring someone else should do that. The "lucky" thing about this topic is that the most comprehensive source is online (see the external link), so it's just a problem of figuring out how not to plagierize. -- kosboot ( talk) 19:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.
We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.
A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.
We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
One thing, by the way: I wouldn't necessarily get them to remove the ones on that list - given that they told the classical music project that *not one* composer within the Classical music project's bailiwick would be in the release, perhaps we should instead frame it as *additions* Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 09:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Is it just me or does this whole Wikipedia 0.7 concept seem like a bad idea. The more I look at it the more it disturbs me. Wikipedia, as we all know, is not perfect and does have errors. We all find them and I am the first to admit that I personally have made some. These errors, however, are outweighed by the fact that the encyclopedia can be edited easily. However, by making a permanent collection of articles which can no longer be edited this benefit is erased. The resulting product is therefore likely to be unreliable and rather than being a useful tool for school children (which is what they are going to do with these DVDs!); it becomes a source of misinformation. In browsing through the articles selected, I found articles with original research tags, cleanup tags, etc. I am not sure where to raise my concerns but I think some better quality control is in order. I would rather scratch this whole project that provide an inferior education tool to school children. I guess we could just limmit articles to FA and GA status ones... Nrswanson ( talk) 14:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
We have an article on Monologue with a section on 'operatic monologue'. Is this a genuine opera term? Grove and Oxford have articles on Monodrama but not monologue. What do you think? Is a monologue essentially spoken rather than sung? -- Klein zach 00:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
It would be helpful to have some OP members' input re this article, which really needs improvement. See the discussion here. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 08:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for deletion. Nrswanson ( talk) 10:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Just did a restoration of this. I hope it meets with everyone's satisfaction? =) Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 12:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
To give some idea what's possible, here's the unrestored version:
Now, a couple others. Obviously, only The Mikado counts as opera (albeit a subsidiary WikiProject), but the point is to show what can be done, not to suggest sounds for the Opera Portal =) I've chosen some of the more extreme examples. Obviously, if I get a really good-quality recording, I can do a very good-quality restoration =)
Anyway, I think that should give you some idea of what I can and cannot do, at least at my current skill level. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 21:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
As for what's at the site I linked - some very good stuff from Cavalleria rusticana, a nice recording from Massenet's Le Cid... You may have to dig a little bit, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of stuff for me. If in doubt (as some of the restorations are less than ideal) throw it my way and I'll tell you whether I think I can do anything with it. =)
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk)
21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, let me make a request. I feel like doing Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg first, if for no other reason than we really do need a
Featured Sound from Wagner.
Here are six possible prize songs. I'll be working from the .wav files due to legal necessity (the restored mp3s are copyrighted and licenced under a non-commerical licence, but I think I MAY be able to do better than them anyway.
Give me a short list of singers from that list. I'm willing to do a couple versions, but I really would ask that you lot choose.</s<>
In the meantime, you're getting Massenet's
Le Cid, as I like Spanish mythology, and it's a nice clean recording.
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk)
22:35, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Discussion moved to
Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Richard_Wagner#Sound_restoration.
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk)
08:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 00:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 65 | Archive 66 | Archive 67 | Archive 68 | Archive 69 | Archive 70 | → | Archive 75 |
I've contacted Michael Bednarek about, inter alia, the role table in the forthcoming Love and Other Demons. He's wikilinked the singers who already have WP entries, but instead of redlinking or not linking the rest, he's put in external links to their bios on the Glyndebourne website. I don't think that we've done anything like this before, and I'm not sure it's a very good idea - see our correspondence here. Anyone thoughts, anyone? -- Guillaume Tell 16:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately we haven't made any progress on this problem during the last week. According to Michael Bednarek "this issue is very low on my to-do list because I consider the current state not as unsatisfactory" (sic).
The Wikipedia:External links guideline ( "a generally accepted standard that editors should follow, though it should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception" ) - includes:
"Important points to remember 3. External links should not normally be used in the body of an article; . . . Instead, include appropriate external links in an "External links" section at the end and/or in the appropriate location within an infobox or navbox."
However Michael Bednarek says:
"AFAIK there is no policy prohibiting external links in the body of an article, only a guideline ( MOS:LINK) . . . . I don't see a problem. I didn't breach any policy. The guideline allows exceptions, and I believe those can and should be applied where I used this style of linking. . . ."
However five, six or seven 'exceptions' on each page can't be called 'occasional'. I'm asking Michael Bednarek to kindly reconsider reverting his edits. So far we know this involves Love and Other Demons, The Fly (opera) and Chlestakows Wiederkehr, maybe other pages as well. -- Klein zach 05:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Adopting an idea from the Ballet Project, I've added a book icon (to show access to reference works) to the list of participants on the project page here. This is an experiment. If there are any objections, I'll remove it - otherwise please make use of it! -- Klein zach 00:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that there are no discographies for opera singers like Pavarotti and Domingo. Are discographies frowned on? Should I include them? Copana2002 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Pardon the out-dent - but continuing from Kleinzach - at its most simple, a discography may seem like a list, but true discographies give much more information than just what was recorded, to providing not just context but details of recording (I'm sure every one of those Pelleas recordings are much more complex than indicated). But to get to the practical matter of considering whether discographies should be included in Wikipedia Opera Project articles, I would say that a good quality discography is beyond the scope of Wikipedia, and that authors should refer to published discographies. As a consolation, they could mention "a number" of representative recordings. The aim would be to relieve Wikipedia participants from assembling extensive lists, particularly if they are just copied from published sources. Having seen bad and good discographies, and knowing how useful a good discography can be (and what an immense amount of work they can be), I feel strongly about it. But if everyone overrules me - I accept it. -- kosboot ( talk) 13:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for deletion. Nrswanson ( talk) 00:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I have a quick question about orchestra instrumentation in operas. Should we use orchestra instrumentation for any opera? I am a new member here at this Wikiproject, but I have been an experienced editor at Wikipedia. Any helpful information is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Greg Jones II 02:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Will we continue with the list of individual operas by significant composers? With the early 20th century? This is the list we have at the moment:
- 1901: Die Rose vom Liebesgarten by Hans Pfitzner (1869-1949)
- 1903: Die Odyssee by August Bungert (1845-1915)
- 1915: Dèbora e Jaéle by Ildebrando Pizzetti (1880-1968)
1919: Mörder, Hoffnung der Frauen by Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)- 1920: Die Vögel by Walter Braunfels (1882-1954)
1920: Das Nusch-Nuschi by Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)- 1925: I cavalieri di Ekebù by Riccardo Zandonai (1883-1944)
1929: Neues vom Tage by Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)- 1932: Maria Egiziaca by Ottorino Respighi (1879-1936)
- 1940: Romeo und Julia by Heinrich Sutermeister (1910-1995)
Any thoughts? Additional works? Thanks. -- Klein zach 23:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty much back in action now. I'm happy with the above list, and can volunteer to do the Zandonai, Maw and Turnage. I'll try and beef up some of the August ones (e.g. Evangelimann, Vestale) as well before the 31st. -- Guillaume Tell 10:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't really want to get into all the arguments about the name on the talk page but surely The Tales of Hoffman (single "n") is wrong. Can we move it to a "Hoffmann" version? -- Folantin ( talk) 08:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Several bots are being used to automatically rewrite references with sometimes unpredictable results. I and some other editors have already complained about Polbot, see here, but there seem to be others (e.g. DumZiBoT). It seems approval has been given prematurely to bot operations which should really have been tested first. Problems can be reported to the Bot owners' noticeboard. -- Klein zach 00:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for deletion. Nrswanson ( talk) 08:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
"The result was Keep. This discussion requires the attention of an expert in the subject; as most of the opinions here came with a built-in disclaimer. If somebody can locate an authoritative reference on this subject or an expert who can shed some light on the matter, then it would be wise to relist this at that time. As it was, however, there was no consensus for deletion, and the deletion policy advises we lean toward keep in such situations."
As I've kind of become the unofficial director of the featured sound process, I just wanted to encourage everyone here that, if they can find any public domain or otherwise free-use recordings of music that we would welcome your suggestions for featured sounds at WP:FSC. =) Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 11:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this page for deletion. As you all may know, I am generally a supporter of articles on notable amateur companies when well wriiten/sourced but this one has no references, was created by an SPA, and I think may be trying to establish itself as a professional institution, a fact which is highly unclear given the company's history and the company's lack of participation in organizations like OPERA America. All comments welcome. Nrswanson ( talk) 18:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEG3yZ4e_hY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.171.28 ( talk) 21:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Union Avenue Opera is a professional company and has been paying singers for over 10 years. While they are cosidered a "D" house in terms of budget and size, I can assure you that they are professional and their productions are generally quite good. The orchestra contains many people from the St. Louis Symphony. In recent years, they have been able to hire a few more notable singers, as their budget increases. The chorus is also paid....not the church choir, believe me! Singers are flown in and housed at donors homes- just like Opera Theatre of St. Louis. You could consider Union Avenue Opera to be the "New York City Opera" of St. Louis, with Opera Theatre of St. Louis being the "Met" of St. Louis. Hope this helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.171.28 ( talk) 21:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
The result was no consensus/default keep. -- Klein zach 03:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I have recently come across a bit of a conumdrum on the Pietro Mascagni article. I have found evidence of some additional operas by the composer such as I Bianchi ed i Neri at here and in this Opera News article here. However another editor Ebruchez ( talk · contribs) (oddly an SPA on Pietro Mascagni since 2006) insists they do not exist in spite of the evidence. I myself am not a Mascagni authority but having found two different references (at least to the one opera) from what I have always found to be reliable sources it makes we question the claim of Ebruchez. Can anyone clarify? See Talk:Pietro Mascagni also. Thanks. Nrswanson ( talk) 05:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether we should have a policy of not using the Stanford OperaGlass as a first source - only as a supporting one? I don't think it's reliable enough to use for unsupported information. -- Klein zach 01:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
According to CatScan, there are 38 articles under Category:Opera stubs which could be marked with some type of opera-bio-stub, including articles from Category:Opera critics, Category:Opera composers, Category:Opera directors, Category:Opera managers, Category:Opera designers, and Category:Opera librettists. Other types which would be less viable would be Category:Opera houses (18 articles) & Category:Opera festivals (10). Although the Opera Project has done some superb housecleaning as noted above, if they are amenable to any further splits I would suggest a {{ opera-bio-stub}} per the numbers I have given. Her Pegship (tis herself) 19:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations to everyone! Article 5,000 ( La púrpura de la rosa) is up and running. It needs work though. I created it quickly so that we would have an interesting article in terms of opera history as we hit the benchmark. All help is welcome. Nrswanson ( talk) 18:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to VoceDiTenore, I think this is now up to at least good article article standard. Would anyone like to propose it? As a contributor I don't think I should do this myself. -- Klein zach 00:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
If we are going to blow our trumpet - and non-one else is going to do it for us - now is the time! People in the opera world are largely unaware of our work. They associate Wikipedia with internet/tech, popular culture. WP Science articles have been in the media spotlight, but not arts ones.
Should we do some short press releases to send to the main opera publications, houses etc? (The necessary contact details are available.) If so, could we have volunteers to represent us? Maybe one in Britain and one in the States? Communications of this kind would need to be made with real names and addresses etc. (I'm in Japan so I don't qualify for the job, though I can do a notice for Opera-L.) P.S. I'm less keen on celebrating here on WP, because we may just be regarded as a juicy (i.e. edit-count-spree) dataset, and there's the usual prospect of being accused of 'ownership'. -- Klein zach 04:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous IP has been adding links to pages in the International Jose Guillermo Carrillo Foundation sound archives, e.g. [2]. (Foundation appears to be linked to the Universitario de Tecnología Industrial “Rodolfo Loero Arismendi” in Venezuela.) The files are good quality, but two issues:
Perhaps someone else could take a look at articles in Special:Contributions/190.200.116.70? Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 11:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I’m confused with Leonard Bernstein status. Is he an opera composer or musical theatre composer? I am currently checking opera corpus list – to create navigation template for composers with more than 3 articles created. I don’t know whether I should create "Opera template" for his articles, I don’t know whether his works can be considered "opera" or "half opera"? What do you guys think? Refer Opera corpus entry Leonard Bernstein (1918–1990): Candide, A Quiet Place, Trouble in Tahiti, West Side Story. - Jay ( talk) 13:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Candide, A Quiet Place and West Side Story all have their own entries in Opera Grove. But I agree that "Stage works by..." is the way to go. -- Guillaume Tell 00:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
This article had a preamble that explains the selection criteria: "The principal works of the major composers are given as well as those of historical importance in the development of the art form. . . . This list is intended to be a selective one of notable works."
We've encouraged editors to put complete lists of works in biographical articles, while using The opera corpus to list major works for which we intended to write articles. The standard for 'major works' being a dedicated article in Grove or similar publication. (All operas that already have articles have also been added to the list.)
Up to 6 September The opera corpus was a stable and slowly growing list for which there were accurate stats. Unfortunately since then we've seen a huge number of edits - both additions and deletions. This threatens the usefulness of a unique list of major works that's been our roadmap for developing coverage. I've asked the editors involved to stop working on the list so we re-establish the integrity of the article. Perhaps we should discuss problems, issues here? -- Klein zach 01:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
So, what is the purpose of The Opera Corpus? Is the list intended to be:
If so, then I take it that at some point, when every article has been created that ought to be, The Opera Corpus would simply be a total index of WikiProject Opera, sorted by composer. Is that correct? Marc Shepherd ( talk) 12:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I've raised the issue of sound clips, especially those of the Fulda Symphonic Orchestra, on the Classical Music Project here. Some of the recordings are of opera overtures, e.g. Tristan and Don Giovanni. -- Klein zach 09:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
About half done with making a start class/C-class article on this. It's going to lack criticism and such, but, eh, it'll contain all the basic information on the opera, plus a sound recording. That's not a bad start. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 17:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Méhul I think deserves an upgrade from start- certainly to C....-- Smerus ( talk) 08:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Don’t you think Ambrosian Singers (or sometimes known as Ambrosian Chorus) should be under Opera project? They have recorded more than hundred recordings of full length opera (probably thousands) with many renowned opera singers. The article ( Ambrosian Singers) makes the group sounds like a bunch of "Christmas carol singers" or pop/rock background singers without mentioning anything about their participations in opera. What a shame, these people are damn great opera chorus! - Jay ( talk) 12:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
They've done a lot of symphonic choral music, oratorios, sacred music, etc. etc. not just opera. See for example: [6]. I think the Classical Music Project banner is more appropriate. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Since I got on Wikipedia years ago, I was surprised not to find an article with this topic, although numerous articles mention the cylinders. So I have created an article - not too long, so the rest of you can fill in what you think is valuable. I've not put in the template of the WikiOpera Project, figuring someone else should do that. The "lucky" thing about this topic is that the most comprehensive source is online (see the external link), so it's just a problem of figuring out how not to plagierize. -- kosboot ( talk) 19:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.
We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.
A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.
We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
One thing, by the way: I wouldn't necessarily get them to remove the ones on that list - given that they told the classical music project that *not one* composer within the Classical music project's bailiwick would be in the release, perhaps we should instead frame it as *additions* Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 09:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Is it just me or does this whole Wikipedia 0.7 concept seem like a bad idea. The more I look at it the more it disturbs me. Wikipedia, as we all know, is not perfect and does have errors. We all find them and I am the first to admit that I personally have made some. These errors, however, are outweighed by the fact that the encyclopedia can be edited easily. However, by making a permanent collection of articles which can no longer be edited this benefit is erased. The resulting product is therefore likely to be unreliable and rather than being a useful tool for school children (which is what they are going to do with these DVDs!); it becomes a source of misinformation. In browsing through the articles selected, I found articles with original research tags, cleanup tags, etc. I am not sure where to raise my concerns but I think some better quality control is in order. I would rather scratch this whole project that provide an inferior education tool to school children. I guess we could just limmit articles to FA and GA status ones... Nrswanson ( talk) 14:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
We have an article on Monologue with a section on 'operatic monologue'. Is this a genuine opera term? Grove and Oxford have articles on Monodrama but not monologue. What do you think? Is a monologue essentially spoken rather than sung? -- Klein zach 00:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
It would be helpful to have some OP members' input re this article, which really needs improvement. See the discussion here. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 08:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for deletion. Nrswanson ( talk) 10:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Just did a restoration of this. I hope it meets with everyone's satisfaction? =) Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 12:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
To give some idea what's possible, here's the unrestored version:
Now, a couple others. Obviously, only The Mikado counts as opera (albeit a subsidiary WikiProject), but the point is to show what can be done, not to suggest sounds for the Opera Portal =) I've chosen some of the more extreme examples. Obviously, if I get a really good-quality recording, I can do a very good-quality restoration =)
Anyway, I think that should give you some idea of what I can and cannot do, at least at my current skill level. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 21:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
As for what's at the site I linked - some very good stuff from Cavalleria rusticana, a nice recording from Massenet's Le Cid... You may have to dig a little bit, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of stuff for me. If in doubt (as some of the restorations are less than ideal) throw it my way and I'll tell you whether I think I can do anything with it. =)
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk)
21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, let me make a request. I feel like doing Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg first, if for no other reason than we really do need a
Featured Sound from Wagner.
Here are six possible prize songs. I'll be working from the .wav files due to legal necessity (the restored mp3s are copyrighted and licenced under a non-commerical licence, but I think I MAY be able to do better than them anyway.
Give me a short list of singers from that list. I'm willing to do a couple versions, but I really would ask that you lot choose.</s<>
In the meantime, you're getting Massenet's
Le Cid, as I like Spanish mythology, and it's a nice clean recording.
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk)
22:35, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Discussion moved to
Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Richard_Wagner#Sound_restoration.
Shoemaker's Holiday (
talk)
08:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 00:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)