This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
I am working on some infoboxes to make it easier to navigate around the opera articles. These are the first two:
Any comments/criticisms? - Kleinzach 10:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that when the box is included in a page, that page's link is white, which is disorienting since it's very hard to see. I suck at tables, so you'll have to experiment with that yourself. In Grove's Opera article it gives 76 genres and closely related artforms (under "Opera, §III 4. Performance and repetition." at the bottom). This may also be too many, but I agree that the genres given are somewhat limited. However, I don't know much about Opera genres, or which ones are the most important, or the most encompassing. I would choose some broader-ish groupings to begin with, which is why I was thinking of the Baroque, Classical, Romantic, 20th century options, but these may be too broad. My thinking is that this would help the musically literate who aren't quite as opera literate to browse the opera articles. I would also like to put in a little plug for redlinks within the boxes, especially for things which you think definitely should have an article, as it helps give people ideas of what articles to write, and is an encouragement to do so. It's worth it to have a redlink if it means a newbie sees it, writes a little stub, and is brought into the community. My first article was a redlink, and that seems to have turned out pretty well for me. Mak (talk) 22:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Here is another box for Opera terms. Once again the choice is related to what we have now rather than in the future (and I've excluded vocal terms: soprano etc.) Comment? Kleinzach 21:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I've translated what's in the German article. I'd appreciate if someone who knows more about his work could check what I've written, and if someone more experienced in the style of these articles could check that. Gerry Lynch 16:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
This (ancient?) article is probably unknown to most of us. Should it be deleted, and if so does someone have a good method of doing this? (It isn't easily redirectable.) - Kleinzach 18:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Now that it has gone, it leaves a rather lonely red link on the List of basic topic lists. How about simply putting our nice new "Opera Categories" box in there for now?? It would be a start... Vivaverdi 16:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I suggest this logo for the Russian opera articles:
[[Image:Russian Opera logo1.jpg|50px]] This Russian Opera article is part of the Opera Project
It can be placed at the bottom of the article. ( Meladina 16:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC))
I have made an infobox for opera categories (i.e. all the links point to categories not articles). Any comments? Omissions? (See below)
It shows the categories we have now, rather than an idealized schemat. - Kleinzach 23:50, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Just catching up on this page today... I very much like the look of this box. It's excellent. Vivaverdi 15:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC) In fact, I've created a new desktop shortcut. It's a great means of going anywhere in wiki for anything opera-related. Vivaverdi 15:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Would anyone like to have a go at this one? It is tagged "This article lacks information on the importance of the subject matter." - Kleinzach 10:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
OK, I did Stefan Zucker. Have you ever heard him sing? Hilarious! -- Ssilvers 16:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Meladina's articles on Sergei Lemeshev and Ivan Kozlovsky are cited on the Main Page. Congratulations! - Kleinzach 18:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I have been trying to quantify the growth of the Opera Project. Having spent some time with the Arts Project, my impression is that this is the most dynamic of all the individual arts projects.
There is an automatic category scan at: http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?
Unfortunately this doesn't work well - apparently the English Wikipedia database is corrupt.
So I have done a manual count of opera articles. My total is 1,834 (including 551 operas, 491 singers, 394 composers and 183 opera houses and companies).
Incidentally, I have now made over 5,000 personal edits according to the counter at: http://tools.wikimedia.de/~kate/cgi-bin/count_edits?user=&dbname=enwiki_p and I'm looking forward to retirement. Would anyone like to take over as janitor?
Kleinzach 22:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Who should we have in July? Some candidates: Donizetti, Gluck, Offenbach, Rossini and Richard Strauss. (Next month of course is Hans Werner Henze.) - Kleinzach 10:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Rock opera, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't have much to do with opera as it is traditionally thought of, but in fact it's something else that is starting to pique me on this particular article. The "Contemporary Trends" section (or non - section) has been blank ever since I first saw the article (six months ago, perhaps)? Are there any plans to develop it? It is ,I suppose, a sorry reflection on the current level of good (and performed-more-than-once) operas that are currently being composed, and which are worthy of a mention on Wikipedia. Perhaps a decent idea would be to relabel it "Contemporary and Recent Trends", which would allow for a full discussion of the styles of Britten, Schoenberg, and Berg etc. The other section which is currently blank is "development of an opera audience", which can't, surely, be so hard to write about. If these two things get done (and, when I get time, I'll have a go at the latter) the article isn't quite so dreadful. Any thoughts? Best to all, Moreschi 15:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll get it all done by 1st of July. Moreschi 10:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
There is a set of Grove Opera available in paperback. This is a fairly rare event. Since the books are so important for us I thought I would mention it here. Please contact me for details, but note that I am not connected in any way with the sale (which is on eBay ending June 13). - Kleinzach 14:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
So far we have had relatively little duplication in opera articles and I think this is healthy. Now the Comic opera article has been rewritten to cover the same area as the articles on Opera buffa, Opéra comique, Operetta, Singspiel, Zarzuela, Género chico, Ballad opera, Musical comedy etc. What do other members think of duplicating information in articles? - Kleinzach 21:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Here are two templates suggested for the discussion pages: [[Template:Opera1]] {{Opera1}} [[Template:Russian opera]] {{Russian opera}} Please make your comments. ( meladina 10:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC))
The guide on the main project page suggests: "The list of roles may include the names of the cast at the premiere (or premieres)." A general rule would be helpful. Should all opera articles list the opening night performers (when available)? None? Only when the cast list is somehow interesting (what constitutes interesting?) (and if so, should the point of interest be noted in the article or the Talk so that future editors know it's there for a reason)? These lists are readily available and I'm happy to add them en masse if they won't be considered clutter. Fireplace 03:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps someone would like to suggest an icon for the Opera Project userbox? At the moment it has the standard Wikipedia globe which is a bit boring. - Kleinzach 11:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is just an attempt ( meladina 22:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)):
Themplate:participant|Opera Opera
Template:User ParticipantOpera2
Template:User ParticipantOpera3
This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
One more suggestion:
Template:Singer {{Singer}}
( meladina 17:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
Looks great to me as well! Moreschi 20:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to Makemi and Moreschi for the favourable notices. Here is another version for a woman-singer:
Template:Singer1 {{Singer1}}
( meladina 20:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
And that also looks bright and beautiful. How about one for castrati, however (I'm a big Handel fan)? Cheers, Moreschi 20:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
No, that wasn't a joke! I'm planning to majorly expand the current castrati articles come August and a template of this nature would not go amiss. Moreschi 20:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Before going for about 10 days off, here is the answer to Moreschi's request. Please edit as you wish:
Template:Castrato {{Castrato}}
( meladina 22:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
An interesting thought flitted through my brain a while back while I was editing Purcell's The Fairy-Queen. It concerned the labelling of the voice parts. The list was in a bit of a muddle, so I standardised all the bass voice parts to baritone, as by modern standards all of these parts are comfortably within baritonal range and tessitura.
Is this the right thing to do? Should we, in cases like these, alter to modern standards or preseve the composer's original vocabulary for these parts? This mostly, I think, applies to Purcell and Blow but also to Handel occasionally as well. My own leaning would be towards a more modern interpretation, but if there are any users with a passion for early - music authenticity, then please feel free to dissent.
One final point to make is that while Purcellian soprano parts are usually within the range of a trained mezzo, often (viz The Fairy-Queen) the tessitura is too high for a modern mezzo, and thus should probably not be mucked around with. Best to all, Moreschi 13:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
The List of important operas (formerly the List of famous operas) is currently being re-written and re-edited as an (self-referenced) annotated list. Contributors are welcome! There is a lot of work still to be done.
If you wish to suggest titles for inclusion or deletion we'd be grateful if you could do this on the Talk page. We (obviously) each have our own ideas about what should be on the list, but we are trying to proceed on the basis of unanimity! Best. - Kleinzach 09:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Should opera articles wikilink libretto? A large chunk of them don't, a smaller chunk do. It initially struck me as overwikification, but the libretto article isn't bad (and could potentially be very good). I have no strong opinions other than that there should be consistency. Fireplace 15:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
I am working on some infoboxes to make it easier to navigate around the opera articles. These are the first two:
Any comments/criticisms? - Kleinzach 10:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that when the box is included in a page, that page's link is white, which is disorienting since it's very hard to see. I suck at tables, so you'll have to experiment with that yourself. In Grove's Opera article it gives 76 genres and closely related artforms (under "Opera, §III 4. Performance and repetition." at the bottom). This may also be too many, but I agree that the genres given are somewhat limited. However, I don't know much about Opera genres, or which ones are the most important, or the most encompassing. I would choose some broader-ish groupings to begin with, which is why I was thinking of the Baroque, Classical, Romantic, 20th century options, but these may be too broad. My thinking is that this would help the musically literate who aren't quite as opera literate to browse the opera articles. I would also like to put in a little plug for redlinks within the boxes, especially for things which you think definitely should have an article, as it helps give people ideas of what articles to write, and is an encouragement to do so. It's worth it to have a redlink if it means a newbie sees it, writes a little stub, and is brought into the community. My first article was a redlink, and that seems to have turned out pretty well for me. Mak (talk) 22:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Here is another box for Opera terms. Once again the choice is related to what we have now rather than in the future (and I've excluded vocal terms: soprano etc.) Comment? Kleinzach 21:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I've translated what's in the German article. I'd appreciate if someone who knows more about his work could check what I've written, and if someone more experienced in the style of these articles could check that. Gerry Lynch 16:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
This (ancient?) article is probably unknown to most of us. Should it be deleted, and if so does someone have a good method of doing this? (It isn't easily redirectable.) - Kleinzach 18:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Now that it has gone, it leaves a rather lonely red link on the List of basic topic lists. How about simply putting our nice new "Opera Categories" box in there for now?? It would be a start... Vivaverdi 16:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I suggest this logo for the Russian opera articles:
[[Image:Russian Opera logo1.jpg|50px]] This Russian Opera article is part of the Opera Project
It can be placed at the bottom of the article. ( Meladina 16:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC))
I have made an infobox for opera categories (i.e. all the links point to categories not articles). Any comments? Omissions? (See below)
It shows the categories we have now, rather than an idealized schemat. - Kleinzach 23:50, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Just catching up on this page today... I very much like the look of this box. It's excellent. Vivaverdi 15:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC) In fact, I've created a new desktop shortcut. It's a great means of going anywhere in wiki for anything opera-related. Vivaverdi 15:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Would anyone like to have a go at this one? It is tagged "This article lacks information on the importance of the subject matter." - Kleinzach 10:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
OK, I did Stefan Zucker. Have you ever heard him sing? Hilarious! -- Ssilvers 16:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Meladina's articles on Sergei Lemeshev and Ivan Kozlovsky are cited on the Main Page. Congratulations! - Kleinzach 18:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I have been trying to quantify the growth of the Opera Project. Having spent some time with the Arts Project, my impression is that this is the most dynamic of all the individual arts projects.
There is an automatic category scan at: http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?
Unfortunately this doesn't work well - apparently the English Wikipedia database is corrupt.
So I have done a manual count of opera articles. My total is 1,834 (including 551 operas, 491 singers, 394 composers and 183 opera houses and companies).
Incidentally, I have now made over 5,000 personal edits according to the counter at: http://tools.wikimedia.de/~kate/cgi-bin/count_edits?user=&dbname=enwiki_p and I'm looking forward to retirement. Would anyone like to take over as janitor?
Kleinzach 22:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Who should we have in July? Some candidates: Donizetti, Gluck, Offenbach, Rossini and Richard Strauss. (Next month of course is Hans Werner Henze.) - Kleinzach 10:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Rock opera, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't have much to do with opera as it is traditionally thought of, but in fact it's something else that is starting to pique me on this particular article. The "Contemporary Trends" section (or non - section) has been blank ever since I first saw the article (six months ago, perhaps)? Are there any plans to develop it? It is ,I suppose, a sorry reflection on the current level of good (and performed-more-than-once) operas that are currently being composed, and which are worthy of a mention on Wikipedia. Perhaps a decent idea would be to relabel it "Contemporary and Recent Trends", which would allow for a full discussion of the styles of Britten, Schoenberg, and Berg etc. The other section which is currently blank is "development of an opera audience", which can't, surely, be so hard to write about. If these two things get done (and, when I get time, I'll have a go at the latter) the article isn't quite so dreadful. Any thoughts? Best to all, Moreschi 15:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll get it all done by 1st of July. Moreschi 10:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
There is a set of Grove Opera available in paperback. This is a fairly rare event. Since the books are so important for us I thought I would mention it here. Please contact me for details, but note that I am not connected in any way with the sale (which is on eBay ending June 13). - Kleinzach 14:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
So far we have had relatively little duplication in opera articles and I think this is healthy. Now the Comic opera article has been rewritten to cover the same area as the articles on Opera buffa, Opéra comique, Operetta, Singspiel, Zarzuela, Género chico, Ballad opera, Musical comedy etc. What do other members think of duplicating information in articles? - Kleinzach 21:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Here are two templates suggested for the discussion pages: [[Template:Opera1]] {{Opera1}} [[Template:Russian opera]] {{Russian opera}} Please make your comments. ( meladina 10:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC))
The guide on the main project page suggests: "The list of roles may include the names of the cast at the premiere (or premieres)." A general rule would be helpful. Should all opera articles list the opening night performers (when available)? None? Only when the cast list is somehow interesting (what constitutes interesting?) (and if so, should the point of interest be noted in the article or the Talk so that future editors know it's there for a reason)? These lists are readily available and I'm happy to add them en masse if they won't be considered clutter. Fireplace 03:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps someone would like to suggest an icon for the Opera Project userbox? At the moment it has the standard Wikipedia globe which is a bit boring. - Kleinzach 11:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is just an attempt ( meladina 22:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)):
Themplate:participant|Opera Opera
Template:User ParticipantOpera2
Template:User ParticipantOpera3
This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
One more suggestion:
Template:Singer {{Singer}}
( meladina 17:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
Looks great to me as well! Moreschi 20:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to Makemi and Moreschi for the favourable notices. Here is another version for a woman-singer:
Template:Singer1 {{Singer1}}
( meladina 20:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
And that also looks bright and beautiful. How about one for castrati, however (I'm a big Handel fan)? Cheers, Moreschi 20:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
No, that wasn't a joke! I'm planning to majorly expand the current castrati articles come August and a template of this nature would not go amiss. Moreschi 20:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Before going for about 10 days off, here is the answer to Moreschi's request. Please edit as you wish:
Template:Castrato {{Castrato}}
( meladina 22:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
An interesting thought flitted through my brain a while back while I was editing Purcell's The Fairy-Queen. It concerned the labelling of the voice parts. The list was in a bit of a muddle, so I standardised all the bass voice parts to baritone, as by modern standards all of these parts are comfortably within baritonal range and tessitura.
Is this the right thing to do? Should we, in cases like these, alter to modern standards or preseve the composer's original vocabulary for these parts? This mostly, I think, applies to Purcell and Blow but also to Handel occasionally as well. My own leaning would be towards a more modern interpretation, but if there are any users with a passion for early - music authenticity, then please feel free to dissent.
One final point to make is that while Purcellian soprano parts are usually within the range of a trained mezzo, often (viz The Fairy-Queen) the tessitura is too high for a modern mezzo, and thus should probably not be mucked around with. Best to all, Moreschi 13:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
The List of important operas (formerly the List of famous operas) is currently being re-written and re-edited as an (self-referenced) annotated list. Contributors are welcome! There is a lot of work still to be done.
If you wish to suggest titles for inclusion or deletion we'd be grateful if you could do this on the Talk page. We (obviously) each have our own ideas about what should be on the list, but we are trying to proceed on the basis of unanimity! Best. - Kleinzach 09:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Should opera articles wikilink libretto? A large chunk of them don't, a smaller chunk do. It initially struck me as overwikification, but the libretto article isn't bad (and could potentially be very good). I have no strong opinions other than that there should be consistency. Fireplace 15:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)