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Archive 30 | ← | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 | Archive 36 | Archive 37 | → | Archive 40 |
I created navigation box for Arthur Sullivan's operas including his work with others (German, Chorley and Gilbert). But I was told to remove it from all Sullivan/Gilbert articles. But, how about the navigtaion box list itself, shall I remove all S&G collaboration works too? - Jay 05:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I do not think that you need to remove the G&S opera list from the box. On those articles where the box is now placed, the full list may be of interest. Please do not hesitate to discuss issues like this at WP:G&S in the future. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 06:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
His photo in the article (also is use for his navigation box) has been deleted, I am not sure when or why. Can someone please restore it? Thanks. - Jay 01:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Following Jay's attempts to put the Mozart Operas navigational box back where it's been sitting quite happily for some time in The Magic Flute, I have been engaging in a dialogue with User:Opus33 under the above heading on the opera's Talk page. Any thoughts, either here or there, anyone? -- GuillaumeTell 21:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
-- Operalala talk 22:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Re Notability of Susanne Marsee: I googled her and I think she probably passes the notability test. She's also sung leading roles at NYCO, e.g. Carmen, reviewed pretty favourably the New York Times here They also reviewed her 'Composer' in Ariadne Auf Naxos, again favourably. She was Sara, Duchess of Nottingham in the Sills video of Roberto Devereaux which I don't really think of as a comprimario role. The SF opera archives show she sang Preziosilla and Siebel. Her staff biography at Carnegie Mellon is also available here. Best, Voceditenore 06:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Re the issue of (non) "opera stars": Is it worth getting into editing and discussion imbroglios with their devotees on the talk pages of Jenkins, Church, et al.? I suspect the Opera Project has more constructive, important and fun (from our point of view) stuff to work on. It is a problem that the popular press uses the term wrongly, and it's annoying. But... I'm inclined to say it's not worth bothering about. Just make sure the Opera Project banner isn't there. Of course, we could always write a List of singers called opera stars who have never sung in an opera or an article on Journalistic use of the term "opera star". Best, Voceditenore 06:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Re Opera Project Notability Guidelines: I think it would be a good idea to try to develop some general guidelines for the Opera Project. I guess the problem arises more for contemporary figures (singers, composers, librettists, directors, administrators). But I also notice that a lot of opera singers' names in the cast lists in articles on 18th and 19th century operas have the requested article designation. Some of these may be quite obscure people, and if they're not given any significant mention in Grove (or similar), 'articles' on them will be doomed forever to stub status. Best, Voceditenore 07:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Just a note: the main Wikipedia-wide notability test can be found at Wikipedia:Notability, which basically boils down to "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." For our purposes, that basically means that if there's a fairly lengthy biography in Grove (or other such sources), with an OK bibliograpahy, there'll be enough for us to go on. I often think a useful test is "Could I conceivably write a featured article on this topic"? If not, I tend not to write an individual article for that topic. This does happen sometimes with 18th/19th century singers, though many of these do have good Grove coverage, and there's a surprising amount of information out there. I would not object to us giving a go at a Wikipedia:Notability (classical music)? I think that's something for us to think about eventually. Cheers, Moreschi Talk 08:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you all for the information!
For Marsee, I'll put a note on the author's page about it. Originally the article as full of "sang (x) opera with (list of famous singers)" (who would have taken all the leads, leaving only some unmentioned small part for her). If she's been favorably reviewed, that should go on the page, not what the author wrote. He's also written other articles along the same vein.
For Jenkins, mentioning "opera star" and "Maria Callas" on her page was really way over the line. I did think of a suitable way of phrasing the summary, and removed those phrases - the main author has edited since then, and hasn't replaced what I removed.
Grove has its uses, but is not at all useful for singers currently performing.
--
Operalala
talk 18:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
We don't use the Opera banner for Gilbert and Sullivan category talk pages. Now that the Richard Wagner Project has a banner I'm assuming - unless there is something I haven't considered - that the same system will apply. -- Kleinzach 10:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
The article on Europa Riconosciuta is enjoying a spot on the wikipedia main page under the 'did you know?' section. Check it out! Nrswanson 00:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I just thought it would be good to make a note on Beverly Sills' passing on the page. She was not only a wonderful opera singer and advocate for opera but a wonderful person. I had the privledge of getting to meet her about three years ago through a mutual friend and I was amazed at not only her incredible mind and talent but also her genuine love for people. She will be missed. If you have never had the opportunity to hear her sing, find a recording somewhere. It's worth it! Nrswanson 10:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Should La Cenerentola be lower case (in Rossini's infobox)? It's a nickname rather than a proper name, like La traviata.
And La Gioconda, too.
--
Operalala
talk 01:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I just removed 4 “opera houses” from the list in Malaysia and Singapore. It is simply because I don’t know whether I am the one who don’t quite sure of the purpose of the list (I doubt that) or some people who just simply put on the list for the pride of their countries? Perhaps we should tell them that there are many normal theatres but not all theaters can cater for “opera” unless if they regard simple musical drama/dance as “opera”. Do you think we have to have someone to verify others on the list as well? I am currently checking on 1 more theater in Singapore which I doubt can cater for opera performances except simple drama (with only simple crops like chairs, table, trees and curtains on the stage). Can such theaters be listed in the List of opera houses? If so, I will undo back what I have deleted. - Jay 04:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_3#Category:Romantischen_Opern Johnbod 22:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
A category Category:Operas by Jacques Halévy has been created, currently containing only La juive.
1) I would like to move a rename to Category:Operas by Fromental Halévy, and would appreciate opinions before I do so.
2) I would like to suggest his operas for a makeover some month in the near future: I would say that 'La reine de Chypre' (admired by Wagner), 'Henri VI' and 'L'Eclair' certainly deserve at least brief articles, and maybe also 'Le juif errant'.-- Smerus 18:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Didn't apparently qualify for a speedy rename, so I have put it up here. Anyone with any views on point #2?-- Smerus 07:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just put a {{ Unreferenced}} banner on this. The principle author, Buondelmonte, has pasted his own article on Sly from his web site. It's largely accurate (I did make one correction so far) and is well written as an essay, but the tone is not encyclopedic and it is completely devoid of references. It also lacks the standard formatting for sub-sections, apart from 'Performance history', and even there some material more pertinent to that section is appears elsewhere in the article as an aside. I have quite a bit of material about this opera, and actually saw its performance in Turin in October 2000. I'm inclined to fix this up and re-structure it. But I would want to leave the music analysis as it is (perhaps copy-editing some of the 'personal opinion' phrasing). Is it OK to reference Tom Kaufman's web page? And does some note need to be made that the material has been used verbatim with his permission? Best, Voceditenore 11:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the act 5 synopsis and some explanation ,it clears the puzzle in my head about the 5 and 4 act; and “ The Met-1983 3 act Don Carlo – Levine-Domingo ”.
But you might want to look/check at the statement It has been telecast at least once by the Metropolitan Opera, with James Levine conducting and Plácido Domingo as Don Carlos under the heading Subsequent performance history. It is because the statement is just right after Finally, stagings and recordings of the original five-act French version of the opera have become more frequent.
It makes it sound like Domingo-Levine-The Met was in 5 act ( French). The Met-Levine-Domingo is in Italian, cut short to 3 act (extend the scenes) under title “Dan Carlo”.
Domingo first sang “Don Carlos” (French) in 1967 in Vienna (as confirmed in his official website); and then in 1971~72 season at the Met as “Don Carlo” (Italian) – this info is from The Met “Don Carlo” history in the DVD about The Met “Don Carlos/Don Carlo” performances from the premiere on 23 December 1920 until 1992. I sure the Met has done 5 act in French before but from the history, I don’t see Domingo-Levine have unless if they performed it after 1992. If anybody have any info about this, feel free to share. - Jay 18:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone just put all the G&S opera articles into this category without discussion. Recently, we all agreed to categorize them under English comic operas. I don't think they should they ALSO be under English-language operettas, and I have removed them from the cat., but I added other operettas to the category. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 00:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Is The Happiest Girl in the World an operetta? -- Ssilvers 17:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
This isn't really my field either, but what I notice is
In theory, all operettas are also categorised as operas, and should therefore also be in the sub-categories and sub-sub-categories of Category:Operas, such as Category:Operas by language and Category:English-language operas, but in practice this has not been implemented much if at all (and some operettas aren't also in the Operas category either). ("The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there should be no difference between theory and practice, whereas in practice ....")
So my question is whether the Operettas category should also be properly sub-categorised like Operas - in other words, create lots more categories - or should operettas be subcategorised as, say, English-language operas - in other words, abolish the two English language and Hungarian language sub-cats and just use the existing Operas subcats.
(And then there is the question of what is the difference between an operetta and a musical...) -- GuillaumeTell 10:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Here are some ideas/previous suggestions for the October composer(s) of the month:
Any other suggestions as always welcome! -- Kleinzach 00:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Any other ideas, or can we take it that everybody is happy with Cavalli? -- Kleinzach 07:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy too, though I assume noond need be detered from other pet projects. Sparafucil 07:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 30 | ← | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 | Archive 36 | Archive 37 | → | Archive 40 |
I created navigation box for Arthur Sullivan's operas including his work with others (German, Chorley and Gilbert). But I was told to remove it from all Sullivan/Gilbert articles. But, how about the navigtaion box list itself, shall I remove all S&G collaboration works too? - Jay 05:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I do not think that you need to remove the G&S opera list from the box. On those articles where the box is now placed, the full list may be of interest. Please do not hesitate to discuss issues like this at WP:G&S in the future. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 06:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
His photo in the article (also is use for his navigation box) has been deleted, I am not sure when or why. Can someone please restore it? Thanks. - Jay 01:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Following Jay's attempts to put the Mozart Operas navigational box back where it's been sitting quite happily for some time in The Magic Flute, I have been engaging in a dialogue with User:Opus33 under the above heading on the opera's Talk page. Any thoughts, either here or there, anyone? -- GuillaumeTell 21:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
-- Operalala talk 22:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Re Notability of Susanne Marsee: I googled her and I think she probably passes the notability test. She's also sung leading roles at NYCO, e.g. Carmen, reviewed pretty favourably the New York Times here They also reviewed her 'Composer' in Ariadne Auf Naxos, again favourably. She was Sara, Duchess of Nottingham in the Sills video of Roberto Devereaux which I don't really think of as a comprimario role. The SF opera archives show she sang Preziosilla and Siebel. Her staff biography at Carnegie Mellon is also available here. Best, Voceditenore 06:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Re the issue of (non) "opera stars": Is it worth getting into editing and discussion imbroglios with their devotees on the talk pages of Jenkins, Church, et al.? I suspect the Opera Project has more constructive, important and fun (from our point of view) stuff to work on. It is a problem that the popular press uses the term wrongly, and it's annoying. But... I'm inclined to say it's not worth bothering about. Just make sure the Opera Project banner isn't there. Of course, we could always write a List of singers called opera stars who have never sung in an opera or an article on Journalistic use of the term "opera star". Best, Voceditenore 06:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Re Opera Project Notability Guidelines: I think it would be a good idea to try to develop some general guidelines for the Opera Project. I guess the problem arises more for contemporary figures (singers, composers, librettists, directors, administrators). But I also notice that a lot of opera singers' names in the cast lists in articles on 18th and 19th century operas have the requested article designation. Some of these may be quite obscure people, and if they're not given any significant mention in Grove (or similar), 'articles' on them will be doomed forever to stub status. Best, Voceditenore 07:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Just a note: the main Wikipedia-wide notability test can be found at Wikipedia:Notability, which basically boils down to "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." For our purposes, that basically means that if there's a fairly lengthy biography in Grove (or other such sources), with an OK bibliograpahy, there'll be enough for us to go on. I often think a useful test is "Could I conceivably write a featured article on this topic"? If not, I tend not to write an individual article for that topic. This does happen sometimes with 18th/19th century singers, though many of these do have good Grove coverage, and there's a surprising amount of information out there. I would not object to us giving a go at a Wikipedia:Notability (classical music)? I think that's something for us to think about eventually. Cheers, Moreschi Talk 08:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you all for the information!
For Marsee, I'll put a note on the author's page about it. Originally the article as full of "sang (x) opera with (list of famous singers)" (who would have taken all the leads, leaving only some unmentioned small part for her). If she's been favorably reviewed, that should go on the page, not what the author wrote. He's also written other articles along the same vein.
For Jenkins, mentioning "opera star" and "Maria Callas" on her page was really way over the line. I did think of a suitable way of phrasing the summary, and removed those phrases - the main author has edited since then, and hasn't replaced what I removed.
Grove has its uses, but is not at all useful for singers currently performing.
--
Operalala
talk 18:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
We don't use the Opera banner for Gilbert and Sullivan category talk pages. Now that the Richard Wagner Project has a banner I'm assuming - unless there is something I haven't considered - that the same system will apply. -- Kleinzach 10:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
The article on Europa Riconosciuta is enjoying a spot on the wikipedia main page under the 'did you know?' section. Check it out! Nrswanson 00:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I just thought it would be good to make a note on Beverly Sills' passing on the page. She was not only a wonderful opera singer and advocate for opera but a wonderful person. I had the privledge of getting to meet her about three years ago through a mutual friend and I was amazed at not only her incredible mind and talent but also her genuine love for people. She will be missed. If you have never had the opportunity to hear her sing, find a recording somewhere. It's worth it! Nrswanson 10:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Should La Cenerentola be lower case (in Rossini's infobox)? It's a nickname rather than a proper name, like La traviata.
And La Gioconda, too.
--
Operalala
talk 01:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I just removed 4 “opera houses” from the list in Malaysia and Singapore. It is simply because I don’t know whether I am the one who don’t quite sure of the purpose of the list (I doubt that) or some people who just simply put on the list for the pride of their countries? Perhaps we should tell them that there are many normal theatres but not all theaters can cater for “opera” unless if they regard simple musical drama/dance as “opera”. Do you think we have to have someone to verify others on the list as well? I am currently checking on 1 more theater in Singapore which I doubt can cater for opera performances except simple drama (with only simple crops like chairs, table, trees and curtains on the stage). Can such theaters be listed in the List of opera houses? If so, I will undo back what I have deleted. - Jay 04:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_3#Category:Romantischen_Opern Johnbod 22:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
A category Category:Operas by Jacques Halévy has been created, currently containing only La juive.
1) I would like to move a rename to Category:Operas by Fromental Halévy, and would appreciate opinions before I do so.
2) I would like to suggest his operas for a makeover some month in the near future: I would say that 'La reine de Chypre' (admired by Wagner), 'Henri VI' and 'L'Eclair' certainly deserve at least brief articles, and maybe also 'Le juif errant'.-- Smerus 18:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Didn't apparently qualify for a speedy rename, so I have put it up here. Anyone with any views on point #2?-- Smerus 07:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just put a {{ Unreferenced}} banner on this. The principle author, Buondelmonte, has pasted his own article on Sly from his web site. It's largely accurate (I did make one correction so far) and is well written as an essay, but the tone is not encyclopedic and it is completely devoid of references. It also lacks the standard formatting for sub-sections, apart from 'Performance history', and even there some material more pertinent to that section is appears elsewhere in the article as an aside. I have quite a bit of material about this opera, and actually saw its performance in Turin in October 2000. I'm inclined to fix this up and re-structure it. But I would want to leave the music analysis as it is (perhaps copy-editing some of the 'personal opinion' phrasing). Is it OK to reference Tom Kaufman's web page? And does some note need to be made that the material has been used verbatim with his permission? Best, Voceditenore 11:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the act 5 synopsis and some explanation ,it clears the puzzle in my head about the 5 and 4 act; and “ The Met-1983 3 act Don Carlo – Levine-Domingo ”.
But you might want to look/check at the statement It has been telecast at least once by the Metropolitan Opera, with James Levine conducting and Plácido Domingo as Don Carlos under the heading Subsequent performance history. It is because the statement is just right after Finally, stagings and recordings of the original five-act French version of the opera have become more frequent.
It makes it sound like Domingo-Levine-The Met was in 5 act ( French). The Met-Levine-Domingo is in Italian, cut short to 3 act (extend the scenes) under title “Dan Carlo”.
Domingo first sang “Don Carlos” (French) in 1967 in Vienna (as confirmed in his official website); and then in 1971~72 season at the Met as “Don Carlo” (Italian) – this info is from The Met “Don Carlo” history in the DVD about The Met “Don Carlos/Don Carlo” performances from the premiere on 23 December 1920 until 1992. I sure the Met has done 5 act in French before but from the history, I don’t see Domingo-Levine have unless if they performed it after 1992. If anybody have any info about this, feel free to share. - Jay 18:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone just put all the G&S opera articles into this category without discussion. Recently, we all agreed to categorize them under English comic operas. I don't think they should they ALSO be under English-language operettas, and I have removed them from the cat., but I added other operettas to the category. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 00:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Is The Happiest Girl in the World an operetta? -- Ssilvers 17:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
This isn't really my field either, but what I notice is
In theory, all operettas are also categorised as operas, and should therefore also be in the sub-categories and sub-sub-categories of Category:Operas, such as Category:Operas by language and Category:English-language operas, but in practice this has not been implemented much if at all (and some operettas aren't also in the Operas category either). ("The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there should be no difference between theory and practice, whereas in practice ....")
So my question is whether the Operettas category should also be properly sub-categorised like Operas - in other words, create lots more categories - or should operettas be subcategorised as, say, English-language operas - in other words, abolish the two English language and Hungarian language sub-cats and just use the existing Operas subcats.
(And then there is the question of what is the difference between an operetta and a musical...) -- GuillaumeTell 10:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Here are some ideas/previous suggestions for the October composer(s) of the month:
Any other suggestions as always welcome! -- Kleinzach 00:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Any other ideas, or can we take it that everybody is happy with Cavalli? -- Kleinzach 07:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy too, though I assume noond need be detered from other pet projects. Sparafucil 07:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)