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This is a notification that Category:Operas by Kurt Weill is being considered for renaming to Musical dramas by Kurt Weill at here. Please weigh in if you would like. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 08:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The opera synopsis of this article is garbled, and could use some attention from someone familiar with the story. -- Pharillon 21:15, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
As per discussions higher up, I think we need to agree a preferred classification for opera singers.
The two schemes I can think of are either:
a) Opera singers should be in category:Opera singers or a national subcategory such as Category:American opera singers; at the same time they should be in a voice category such as category:Tenors or a subcategory such as category:American tenors or category:Heldentenors.
b)Alternatively we should classify opera singers in the way that has been started with category:Operatic baritones and its national sub-categories. These will all be direct or indirect sub-cateogries of Category:Opera singers and the basic voice categories should cease to be its sub-categories.
The key thing that I am rejecting is the idea that we have any ownership over the basic voice categories. Other projects have the right to insert non-operatic singers into these categories. If we want Wikipedia to clearly list operatic singers in some sort of category system, then we need the words opera or operatic to appear in their categorisation. -- Peter cohen 10:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Cleaning up the singer cats would be a huge job - also laborious because of the inflexibility of the WikiMedia software. I have made a page listing the 122 categories that have been identified. The page is here. I have made a summary for this discussion:
IMO opinion the first task is to clear up Category:Altos and Category:Contraltos, then to get all the superfluous baritone categories deleted. I understand that Peter would like to move all the tenors, sopranos into 'operatic tenors', 'operatic sopranos' etc. I am not against this, but I doubt if it is worth the colossal effort. If it ain't broke. . . . -- Kleinzach 03:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
It may be possible to piggyback on the work undertaken by WP:MUSCAT which gives a full category structure, conceived I think originally for pop music but applicable to opera singers. At the heart of this is the ranking: 1. nationality 2. Genre 3. Instrument. For opera singers, the 'genre' would be 'operatic' which could be left as understood if we use traditional names for the voices, the 'instrument' would be voice (in the plural). Thus "Fooian sopranos" which would itself be a subcategory of "Fooian female singers" (except for castrati :-) ), and also of "Sopranos". Caveat: [[User:Kleinzach|Kleinzach] I know, and perhaps some others, are nervous about nationality. I don't see why this should be so, as virtually all other categories I am aware of discriminate by nationality. They do, as noted, involve tedious edit-work, but 'fiat justitia, ruat coelem', and all that............ Smerus 13:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Our current symbol is the Sydney Opera House. This appears on the project banner. (Userboxes have the same image, or the fat lady graphic, or the Leipzig operahouse picture.) One problem with the Sydney Opera House is that the shape of the image doesn't fit the banner well - it needs to be squarer - see
Template:WikiProject Opera. The fat lady graphic (above) on the other hand is too fine and doesn't reduce well to a small size, see
Template:Opera1. (now deleted, see other topic)
I've been looking though WikiCommons for alternatives and found the image on the right. It's a logo for the Opera station of the Madrid subway. It was designed by Javitomad see [1] who has (apparently) designed at least one logo for a WP project (and is a user here under the same name).
I am wondering whether we might ask Javitomad to design either a version of the above, or a new one, for our logo. Is this a good idea? What do other people think? (Incidentally this would not hold up the bot run as the re-design could be done after that). -- Kleinzach 02:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Iconic-ness aside, that sure is an unattractive graphic, while the Sydney graphic is graceful and elegant. -- Ssilvers 14:59, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
SatyrTN has now prepared the banners for the bot run. They are here. The code is in bold above the boxes.
The first example is the plain banner, the second is the banner with auto (i.e. bot) stub assessment, and the third is the banner with hand stub assessment. (The code also allows us to add other assessments later - see the fourth banner - although, as agreed, we are not implementing this now.)
Any comments/problems? Can we go ahead with the run tomorrow? Thanks. -- Kleinzach 02:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to see the run happen asap. -- Peter cohen 09:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) I've set up the bot's instruction page with tonight's categories. If one or more people from the project are willing, please watchlist the bot's comment page, as the edit summary for each article that is tagged points there. If a random passerby wants to question the banner, they usually do it there. Thanks! -- SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 01:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
The Bot is not working properly. It added the automatic STUB assessment today to Ein Walzertraum and Les brigands, but these are not stubs and have no stub tag. If it did this to these articles, it must be incorrectly tagging other articles. Thanks! -- Ssilvers 15:07, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
These have been fixed now. Whatever you (or someone) did worked. -- Ssilvers 15:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
If you all believe that your assessments might run roughly equivalent to those of other projects, you might want to run User:PockBot to see what if any existing assessments have been done, and maybe save some time that way. I wish I knew exactly where the project's banner was, but alternately, if you believe that your project might have different criteria than other projects, you might want to copy the banners at Template:WPMILHIST and Template:WPGR and substitute in any parameters that you think might be unusual or unique to your project. If you wanted any help doing either of these, I would be more than willing to lend what help I could. Just let me know. John Carter 14:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi, John Carter! Would it be possible te remove the Biography Project (auto) assessments from opera articles as our project develops? The banners clutter up the Talk pages and since they are all automatic assessments (of whether or not there is a stub tag) they don't add anything. (AFAIK there aren't any human assessments by the Biography Project here.) -- Kleinzach 10:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I want to add this external link in my sandbox to the Spinto page, but I first want to doublecheck if it's properly attributed, or if I need any kind of special permission to add this paragraph to Wikipedia. Operalala 20:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Here are some ideas for the September composer(s) of the month:
Any other suggestions as always welcome! -- Kleinzach 02:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The Czechs sound like good fun. They're a nice contrast with what we're doing currently and also my suggestion for October (I think this was Folantin's idea originally), which is Cavalli. Moreschi Talk 14:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I have set up the Czechs. Incidentally is there any reason not to move Počátek Románu to the English title Beginning of a Romance? -- Kleinzach 00:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 | Archive 30 |
This is a notification that Category:Operas by Kurt Weill is being considered for renaming to Musical dramas by Kurt Weill at here. Please weigh in if you would like. -- Cielomobile talk / contribs 08:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The opera synopsis of this article is garbled, and could use some attention from someone familiar with the story. -- Pharillon 21:15, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
As per discussions higher up, I think we need to agree a preferred classification for opera singers.
The two schemes I can think of are either:
a) Opera singers should be in category:Opera singers or a national subcategory such as Category:American opera singers; at the same time they should be in a voice category such as category:Tenors or a subcategory such as category:American tenors or category:Heldentenors.
b)Alternatively we should classify opera singers in the way that has been started with category:Operatic baritones and its national sub-categories. These will all be direct or indirect sub-cateogries of Category:Opera singers and the basic voice categories should cease to be its sub-categories.
The key thing that I am rejecting is the idea that we have any ownership over the basic voice categories. Other projects have the right to insert non-operatic singers into these categories. If we want Wikipedia to clearly list operatic singers in some sort of category system, then we need the words opera or operatic to appear in their categorisation. -- Peter cohen 10:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Cleaning up the singer cats would be a huge job - also laborious because of the inflexibility of the WikiMedia software. I have made a page listing the 122 categories that have been identified. The page is here. I have made a summary for this discussion:
IMO opinion the first task is to clear up Category:Altos and Category:Contraltos, then to get all the superfluous baritone categories deleted. I understand that Peter would like to move all the tenors, sopranos into 'operatic tenors', 'operatic sopranos' etc. I am not against this, but I doubt if it is worth the colossal effort. If it ain't broke. . . . -- Kleinzach 03:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
It may be possible to piggyback on the work undertaken by WP:MUSCAT which gives a full category structure, conceived I think originally for pop music but applicable to opera singers. At the heart of this is the ranking: 1. nationality 2. Genre 3. Instrument. For opera singers, the 'genre' would be 'operatic' which could be left as understood if we use traditional names for the voices, the 'instrument' would be voice (in the plural). Thus "Fooian sopranos" which would itself be a subcategory of "Fooian female singers" (except for castrati :-) ), and also of "Sopranos". Caveat: [[User:Kleinzach|Kleinzach] I know, and perhaps some others, are nervous about nationality. I don't see why this should be so, as virtually all other categories I am aware of discriminate by nationality. They do, as noted, involve tedious edit-work, but 'fiat justitia, ruat coelem', and all that............ Smerus 13:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Our current symbol is the Sydney Opera House. This appears on the project banner. (Userboxes have the same image, or the fat lady graphic, or the Leipzig operahouse picture.) One problem with the Sydney Opera House is that the shape of the image doesn't fit the banner well - it needs to be squarer - see
Template:WikiProject Opera. The fat lady graphic (above) on the other hand is too fine and doesn't reduce well to a small size, see
Template:Opera1. (now deleted, see other topic)
I've been looking though WikiCommons for alternatives and found the image on the right. It's a logo for the Opera station of the Madrid subway. It was designed by Javitomad see [1] who has (apparently) designed at least one logo for a WP project (and is a user here under the same name).
I am wondering whether we might ask Javitomad to design either a version of the above, or a new one, for our logo. Is this a good idea? What do other people think? (Incidentally this would not hold up the bot run as the re-design could be done after that). -- Kleinzach 02:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Iconic-ness aside, that sure is an unattractive graphic, while the Sydney graphic is graceful and elegant. -- Ssilvers 14:59, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
SatyrTN has now prepared the banners for the bot run. They are here. The code is in bold above the boxes.
The first example is the plain banner, the second is the banner with auto (i.e. bot) stub assessment, and the third is the banner with hand stub assessment. (The code also allows us to add other assessments later - see the fourth banner - although, as agreed, we are not implementing this now.)
Any comments/problems? Can we go ahead with the run tomorrow? Thanks. -- Kleinzach 02:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to see the run happen asap. -- Peter cohen 09:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) I've set up the bot's instruction page with tonight's categories. If one or more people from the project are willing, please watchlist the bot's comment page, as the edit summary for each article that is tagged points there. If a random passerby wants to question the banner, they usually do it there. Thanks! -- SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 01:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
The Bot is not working properly. It added the automatic STUB assessment today to Ein Walzertraum and Les brigands, but these are not stubs and have no stub tag. If it did this to these articles, it must be incorrectly tagging other articles. Thanks! -- Ssilvers 15:07, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
These have been fixed now. Whatever you (or someone) did worked. -- Ssilvers 15:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
If you all believe that your assessments might run roughly equivalent to those of other projects, you might want to run User:PockBot to see what if any existing assessments have been done, and maybe save some time that way. I wish I knew exactly where the project's banner was, but alternately, if you believe that your project might have different criteria than other projects, you might want to copy the banners at Template:WPMILHIST and Template:WPGR and substitute in any parameters that you think might be unusual or unique to your project. If you wanted any help doing either of these, I would be more than willing to lend what help I could. Just let me know. John Carter 14:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi, John Carter! Would it be possible te remove the Biography Project (auto) assessments from opera articles as our project develops? The banners clutter up the Talk pages and since they are all automatic assessments (of whether or not there is a stub tag) they don't add anything. (AFAIK there aren't any human assessments by the Biography Project here.) -- Kleinzach 10:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I want to add this external link in my sandbox to the Spinto page, but I first want to doublecheck if it's properly attributed, or if I need any kind of special permission to add this paragraph to Wikipedia. Operalala 20:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Here are some ideas for the September composer(s) of the month:
Any other suggestions as always welcome! -- Kleinzach 02:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The Czechs sound like good fun. They're a nice contrast with what we're doing currently and also my suggestion for October (I think this was Folantin's idea originally), which is Cavalli. Moreschi Talk 14:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I have set up the Czechs. Incidentally is there any reason not to move Počátek Románu to the English title Beginning of a Romance? -- Kleinzach 00:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)