This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Figaro has edited quite a few articles on operetta, replacing sentences such as the following:
with this:
I think it's misleading to call these works "comic operas" first, and then put "operetta" in parenthesis. As the departed DrG has maintained, some people view operetta as an entirely seperate genre, though it's often also seen as a type of comic opera. But simply putting "operetta" in parenthesis after "comic opera" indicates that they are synoyms, which really isn't true.
There are quite a few examples of this, all marked as minor and without edit summaries. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]
Any other opinions? -- Baron Larf 14:27, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
I've noticed that DrG has attempted to make a new stub category for operettas. They weren't properly made, so I'm reverting back to the opera-stub for the time being until a template is made, etc. Personally I think that opera-stub is good enough, but I'll open it up to discussion. -- Baron Larf 16:13, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
Right now Opera and Musical theatre are recognized musical genres, but not operetta. Do you think of operetta are a sub-cat of opera, or a sub-cat of muscial theatre, or of both? Or maybe it should be on equal footing as opera and musical theater? Any thoughts? -- DrG 16:28, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)
Just as an FYI to other users, DrG has moved Category:Operettas from Category:Opera and is in the process of removing all opera related categories from operetta articles. -- Baron Larf 19:43, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
I have started a new WikiProject for operetta. The was no single place for operetta, now there is. I have found 63 operettas, only about 12 were in opera categories. Some were in theater, and some were uncategorized. Check out Category:Operetta. I have also started operetta composers, performers, and librettists. -- DrG 02:11, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)
Is having both causing confusion? There is also Category:Opera by language and Category:Operas by language. Is the singular devoted more to the art form and techiques, while the plural is devoted to actual examples? Should they be combined? Any comments or insights are appreciated. -- DrG 02:57, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)
What's up with Category:Operas by title? Seems like this is a superfluous category to me. -- BaronLarf 03:09, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)-- BaronLarf 03:09, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
I have finished the formatting of List of operas. -- Baron Larf 19:26, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
I see there are categories for British, German, Hungarian and Italian opera but not for French, American, Czech, Russian etc. opera. - Kleinzach 23:42, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
The leading reference work on opera in the English language is the New Grove Dictionary of Opera edited by Stanley Sadie and others. I propose that we should, in general, follow their rules. They clearly spent many years looking for solutions to basic opera usage problems (capitalization of titles, eastern European and Russian names etc. etc.) and rather than attempt to reduplicate their efforts, I suggest that we follow their decisions. (No doubt there are errors in Grove so occasionally we will present information differently.)
I have added an entry on the New Grove Dictionary of Opera as I found it didn't exist.
Kleinzach 10:11, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I have corrected the title of Un ballo in maschera (from Un Ballo in Maschera), however this is mis-sorted in 'Category:Italian-language opera' to an obscure lower-case b section. Curiously enough this has not happened to Un giorno di regno which appears under cap G. Does anyone know how to deal with this? Or is this a ghost town? - Kleinzach 23:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Kleinzach 14:35, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Since I have taken on the task of updating the Opera house section, here is a list of recently-completed houses (in addition to other entries - as one follows links in need of work....).
Dorothy Chandler Pavilion - USA Garsington Manor - UK Gothenburg Opera - Sweden Drottningholm Palace Theatre - Swedden - some major corrections led me follow a link to The Magic Flute, the Ingmar Bergman film NOT photographed there. The film entry has been greatly exapnded after I ran thge DVD the other day. In turn, this led me to create an entry for the film historian, Peter Cowie
National Theatre (Munich), home of the Bavarian State Opera The first of these focuses more on the theatre itself; the second deals more with the complany and the opera performed. The latter could be expanded, but my focus has been on more detail on the house itself.
In the Opera Companies section, I have added Dallas Opera - USA . Did not exist
HOWEVER, THERE ALSO EXISTS A SECTION CALLED OPERA HOUSES which attempts to list in several categories, and then some houses alphabetically (including The Copenhagen Opera House being listed under the letter "T").
I would hope that there is agreement on somehow combining these and removing uncessary duplication. (There are far more links on the "House" pages to "Opera House" than there are to "Opera Houses"....
Vivaverdi 23:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on opera? We are also looking for featured articles. (Another Wikiproject, Wikiproject Theatre, listed Porgy and Bess). Please post your suggestions here. Cheers!-- Shanel 20:44, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made a category for opera terminology (similar to the music terminology category). There already are a lot of articles explaining opera terms and it seemed sensible to put then 'under one roof'. There are now about 20 articles in this category.
Kleinzach 01:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I have just finished a long article on The Record of Singing, the important compilation of operatic singing (and song) formerly published by EMI. This shows, amongst other things, which singers from the first half of the 20th century are missing from Wikipedia.
Kleinzach 18:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
In case anyone feels strongly, I have proposed a page move from Belcanto to Bel canto. Feel free to vote at Talk:Belcanto. Mak emi 20:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone has suggested that Opera buffa be merged with Comic opera. Would anyone like to express any opinion? Mine is on the Opera buffa talk page. Best. - Kleinzach 20:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
At the moment we have a large number of entries in the genre category. Are some of these redundant? For example we have:
Category:Children's operas, Category:Fairy opera, Category:Lyric fairy tale
and
Category:Romance opera, Category:Romantic opera
(Is it possible to delete categories, or are they immortal?)
I also see that Category:Operetta is not a sub-category of opera, but an independent category under Theatre and Music. Does this matter?
Musical Terminology is a flourishing category under music, but we have no equivalent category for opera, with the result that there are very few 'technical' articles. Some items come under genres when it might be preferable for them to be terms.
Any thoughts?
Kleinzach 20:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
I have compiled a list of some 680 operas present or absent on wikipedia.
The page is at: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/Operas
Kleinzach 03:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I have been through the list to see that each opera article has a category:Operas tag Kleinzach 23:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Added all the operas and operettas that I could find elsewhere in Wikipedia. I plan to convert any remaining article-less composers to stubs and then move on to adding some synopses - a slow job. -- GuillaumeTell 23:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
What are the opinions on the spoiler-warning tagging of the synopsis section of clasical operas and ballets? I myself find (at least most of) them silly and I just removed the tag from the Swan Lake article. For who will reading the synopsis of the ballet spoil watching it? Not to say, who watch it without knowing the synopsis? Will there ever be anyone who go to read the swan lake article who will think "Dammit, wikipedia should have warned me that the synopsis section would actually give the synopsis! Now the ballet is ruined for me!"
I think the spoiler tag is ugly and used too much here. That a section is named "Synopsis" should be warning enough for anyone who wants to remain ignorant.
But seing that the tag is used in quite alot of other ballet and opera articles I thought I'd ask here before removing it from any further articles. What do you guys here think? Shanes 10:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I have just purged spoilers from 8 operas (La bohème etc.) that I found after making a search.
Kleinzach 14:25, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to see agreement on this. I just removed the spoiler tag from 3 more ballets, The Merry Widow, The Nutcracker and Sleeping Beauty (Yeah, they slept for a 100 years! Big spoiler that one...). Shanes 22:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
AGREE: Remove spoilers. In spite of someone's raving about elitism, etc., they make little sense. Vivaverdi 01:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
What is the preferred way to refer to individual pieces in an opera? Is it:
No reference work I own seems to have consistency (I don't have Groves). My preferred method would be to have the first line of the piece as its title (As is done in G&S works), but many people know the Toreador Song, rather than Votre toast, je peux vous le rendre. Any suggestions? -- Alexs letterbox 05:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I have made the change to the main page and edited the text a little. I hope this is all resolved now, but please say if further changes are necessary.
Actually I think the Opera Project page is pretty good now, we have more problems with other pages such as Opera and List of famous operas (for which see the Talk page, 'Standard or famous' where Tom has made an interesting proposal to go over to an annotated list).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Figaro has edited quite a few articles on operetta, replacing sentences such as the following:
with this:
I think it's misleading to call these works "comic operas" first, and then put "operetta" in parenthesis. As the departed DrG has maintained, some people view operetta as an entirely seperate genre, though it's often also seen as a type of comic opera. But simply putting "operetta" in parenthesis after "comic opera" indicates that they are synoyms, which really isn't true.
There are quite a few examples of this, all marked as minor and without edit summaries. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]
Any other opinions? -- Baron Larf 14:27, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
I've noticed that DrG has attempted to make a new stub category for operettas. They weren't properly made, so I'm reverting back to the opera-stub for the time being until a template is made, etc. Personally I think that opera-stub is good enough, but I'll open it up to discussion. -- Baron Larf 16:13, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
Right now Opera and Musical theatre are recognized musical genres, but not operetta. Do you think of operetta are a sub-cat of opera, or a sub-cat of muscial theatre, or of both? Or maybe it should be on equal footing as opera and musical theater? Any thoughts? -- DrG 16:28, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)
Just as an FYI to other users, DrG has moved Category:Operettas from Category:Opera and is in the process of removing all opera related categories from operetta articles. -- Baron Larf 19:43, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
I have started a new WikiProject for operetta. The was no single place for operetta, now there is. I have found 63 operettas, only about 12 were in opera categories. Some were in theater, and some were uncategorized. Check out Category:Operetta. I have also started operetta composers, performers, and librettists. -- DrG 02:11, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)
Is having both causing confusion? There is also Category:Opera by language and Category:Operas by language. Is the singular devoted more to the art form and techiques, while the plural is devoted to actual examples? Should they be combined? Any comments or insights are appreciated. -- DrG 02:57, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)
What's up with Category:Operas by title? Seems like this is a superfluous category to me. -- BaronLarf 03:09, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)-- BaronLarf 03:09, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
I have finished the formatting of List of operas. -- Baron Larf 19:26, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
I see there are categories for British, German, Hungarian and Italian opera but not for French, American, Czech, Russian etc. opera. - Kleinzach 23:42, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
The leading reference work on opera in the English language is the New Grove Dictionary of Opera edited by Stanley Sadie and others. I propose that we should, in general, follow their rules. They clearly spent many years looking for solutions to basic opera usage problems (capitalization of titles, eastern European and Russian names etc. etc.) and rather than attempt to reduplicate their efforts, I suggest that we follow their decisions. (No doubt there are errors in Grove so occasionally we will present information differently.)
I have added an entry on the New Grove Dictionary of Opera as I found it didn't exist.
Kleinzach 10:11, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I have corrected the title of Un ballo in maschera (from Un Ballo in Maschera), however this is mis-sorted in 'Category:Italian-language opera' to an obscure lower-case b section. Curiously enough this has not happened to Un giorno di regno which appears under cap G. Does anyone know how to deal with this? Or is this a ghost town? - Kleinzach 23:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Kleinzach 14:35, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Since I have taken on the task of updating the Opera house section, here is a list of recently-completed houses (in addition to other entries - as one follows links in need of work....).
Dorothy Chandler Pavilion - USA Garsington Manor - UK Gothenburg Opera - Sweden Drottningholm Palace Theatre - Swedden - some major corrections led me follow a link to The Magic Flute, the Ingmar Bergman film NOT photographed there. The film entry has been greatly exapnded after I ran thge DVD the other day. In turn, this led me to create an entry for the film historian, Peter Cowie
National Theatre (Munich), home of the Bavarian State Opera The first of these focuses more on the theatre itself; the second deals more with the complany and the opera performed. The latter could be expanded, but my focus has been on more detail on the house itself.
In the Opera Companies section, I have added Dallas Opera - USA . Did not exist
HOWEVER, THERE ALSO EXISTS A SECTION CALLED OPERA HOUSES which attempts to list in several categories, and then some houses alphabetically (including The Copenhagen Opera House being listed under the letter "T").
I would hope that there is agreement on somehow combining these and removing uncessary duplication. (There are far more links on the "House" pages to "Opera House" than there are to "Opera Houses"....
Vivaverdi 23:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on opera? We are also looking for featured articles. (Another Wikiproject, Wikiproject Theatre, listed Porgy and Bess). Please post your suggestions here. Cheers!-- Shanel 20:44, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made a category for opera terminology (similar to the music terminology category). There already are a lot of articles explaining opera terms and it seemed sensible to put then 'under one roof'. There are now about 20 articles in this category.
Kleinzach 01:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I have just finished a long article on The Record of Singing, the important compilation of operatic singing (and song) formerly published by EMI. This shows, amongst other things, which singers from the first half of the 20th century are missing from Wikipedia.
Kleinzach 18:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
In case anyone feels strongly, I have proposed a page move from Belcanto to Bel canto. Feel free to vote at Talk:Belcanto. Mak emi 20:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone has suggested that Opera buffa be merged with Comic opera. Would anyone like to express any opinion? Mine is on the Opera buffa talk page. Best. - Kleinzach 20:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
At the moment we have a large number of entries in the genre category. Are some of these redundant? For example we have:
Category:Children's operas, Category:Fairy opera, Category:Lyric fairy tale
and
Category:Romance opera, Category:Romantic opera
(Is it possible to delete categories, or are they immortal?)
I also see that Category:Operetta is not a sub-category of opera, but an independent category under Theatre and Music. Does this matter?
Musical Terminology is a flourishing category under music, but we have no equivalent category for opera, with the result that there are very few 'technical' articles. Some items come under genres when it might be preferable for them to be terms.
Any thoughts?
Kleinzach 20:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
I have compiled a list of some 680 operas present or absent on wikipedia.
The page is at: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/Operas
Kleinzach 03:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I have been through the list to see that each opera article has a category:Operas tag Kleinzach 23:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Added all the operas and operettas that I could find elsewhere in Wikipedia. I plan to convert any remaining article-less composers to stubs and then move on to adding some synopses - a slow job. -- GuillaumeTell 23:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
What are the opinions on the spoiler-warning tagging of the synopsis section of clasical operas and ballets? I myself find (at least most of) them silly and I just removed the tag from the Swan Lake article. For who will reading the synopsis of the ballet spoil watching it? Not to say, who watch it without knowing the synopsis? Will there ever be anyone who go to read the swan lake article who will think "Dammit, wikipedia should have warned me that the synopsis section would actually give the synopsis! Now the ballet is ruined for me!"
I think the spoiler tag is ugly and used too much here. That a section is named "Synopsis" should be warning enough for anyone who wants to remain ignorant.
But seing that the tag is used in quite alot of other ballet and opera articles I thought I'd ask here before removing it from any further articles. What do you guys here think? Shanes 10:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I have just purged spoilers from 8 operas (La bohème etc.) that I found after making a search.
Kleinzach 14:25, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to see agreement on this. I just removed the spoiler tag from 3 more ballets, The Merry Widow, The Nutcracker and Sleeping Beauty (Yeah, they slept for a 100 years! Big spoiler that one...). Shanes 22:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
AGREE: Remove spoilers. In spite of someone's raving about elitism, etc., they make little sense. Vivaverdi 01:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
What is the preferred way to refer to individual pieces in an opera? Is it:
No reference work I own seems to have consistency (I don't have Groves). My preferred method would be to have the first line of the piece as its title (As is done in G&S works), but many people know the Toreador Song, rather than Votre toast, je peux vous le rendre. Any suggestions? -- Alexs letterbox 05:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I have made the change to the main page and edited the text a little. I hope this is all resolved now, but please say if further changes are necessary.
Actually I think the Opera Project page is pretty good now, we have more problems with other pages such as Opera and List of famous operas (for which see the Talk page, 'Standard or famous' where Tom has made an interesting proposal to go over to an annotated list).