This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
I noticed that we are allowed to link articles with videos from youtube.com. Since we can do that, can we print screen the photos from there (the opera video) and put in up in the articles? Or, can we use snapshot pictures from DVDs (purchased by us for our personal use) for any articles, (refer example) from my own purchased DVD and can also be downloaded from youtube.com.- Jay 17:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Mak says “Since it is realistically possible to get a free image of a staging ot Tosca, or a free image of Plácido Domingo, or possibly both, it is very unlikely that we could use this content”.
Mak, I totally agree with you, I have read the Wiki policy when I first joined and I understood but, under some circumstances, I would say that the statement can be challenged / arguable. I said that because:- (let’s use the photo as an example)
Based on those 2 facts, don’t you think Wiki could slightly bend the policy? This is just a discussion; the “said” photo is use for this discussion only - Jay 01:38, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The information on requesting photos is at Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. I'm guessing a lot of singers or their publicists would be happy to release a nice photo for Wikipedia, since we're such a widely-used source, and so high in search results (first one I tried, Deborah Voigt, we're number 3). I'd encourage anyone who has a pet opera singer they'd like a photo for on WP see what they can do in terms of asking for photos. Mak (talk) 00:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
These are now off all opera composers pages (with the exception of one minor article: Michael Nyman). Thanks to everyione involved in the cleanup. However we still have boxes on pages devoted to singers etc. These can be as error-prone as the composers and for the same reason: the box creators generally don't seem to have read the articles etc. -- Kleinzach 00:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Modern scholars seem to prefer Rossini's first name with only one 'c'. We are using both versions. Can we fix on the one 'c', assuming there are no double 'c' fans here? Unfortunately this will mean cat changes. -- Kleinzach 02:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I've created a topic for this opera and cross-referenced it from Judith Weir. So far I've put in some performance history, references and the characters and original cast. Pity that a lot of red links have appeared. I plan to add the synopsis later. Others welcome. -- Peter cohen 16:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I registered in Wiki Source and wrote an article (aria) to test how to do linkage to here but to my surprised, it doesn’t work like WikiCommons. Wikicommons files are able to identify by file names. (Example: if the filename is Verdi.jpg, the photo will appear in any wiki pages without having us to do manual link). I copied “Svegliatevi nel core” to Wiki source and all the hyperlinks in “Svegliatevi nel core” article (in Wikisource) turn RED. And if I linked that page to Wiki EN, it comes out with tiny arrow at the end of the title name, just link our external links. I thought I want to write some famous arias in there but now I think I would rather do it in here (Wiki EN), at least until all these issues have been finalized - Jay 14:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Now that Sacred operas and Satirical operas have been deleted, we only have one major subject category left: Comic operas. Comedies probably account for a quarter to a third of all the 1,600 works listed on The opera corpus, however most of these are in specific genre categories: Drammi giocosi, Farse, Intermezzi, Opera buffa, Opéras bouffes, Opéras comiques, Opéras féeries, Operettas, and Singspiele.
Category:Comic operas has 70 entries comprising 58 works in English (of which 54 are late 19th century English works, many of them Gilbert and Sullivan) plus 5 Czech, 3 Russian, and one each of French, Danish, German and Italian operas.
The English items, or almost all of them, are closely related in style. Should we rename the category English comic operas? (The others could be removed bearing in mind that operas don't need to belong to a specific (sub) category.) -- Kleinzach 07:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The admin in Wikisource send me a message saying that "Arias" are better suited in Wikipedia than Wikisource. Well, I kinda agree with him because we usually write the article with some explanation and the translation of the aria. One other reason is because arias are not the complete libretto. It is of course, OK for Wikisource if we uploaded the entire libretto - (Public Domain or available under a GNU free use license). So, what do you guys think? So far I have transferred Svegliatevi nel core, Libiamo ne' lieti calici, Recondita armonia, E lucevan le stelle, La donna è mobile (and deleted the articles from Wikipedia). Planned to do many more but now I think I better put it on hold for a moment. I need to know your opinion whether we should have them here or Wikisource. I may have to transfer them all back here. PS- We have had this discussion before in ( Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive15)- Jay 03:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
To be honest, I think there may even by a policy problem with having these aria articles here: most of them, in my estimation, possibly fail Wikipedia:Notability. It's the "non-trivial" coverage that perturbs me when it comes to these arias: there aren't a huge amount of books written about just one aria, though there are probably a few exceptions. We do have to bear policy in mind: if these aria articles fail WP:N, they just can't remain here, whether they work at wikisource or no. Moreschi Talk 12:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Being an encyclopedia, in my opinion, it is good to have and to provide articles about opera arias for readers references. Bear in mind that not all readers out there know what is “opera” and what opera is all about.
By providing them with the details of the opera with synopsis, roles, aria lists and the “aria texts” would help them to understand the whole picture of the “opera”. I said this because I live in a country where 70% of populations do not know what opera is all about. By providing details to those who do not know or with only a bit knowledge about opera, would help them to understand more. I don’t know about you guys and people around you but based on own experience explaining to people who don’t know what opera is all about, the best way to educate them is by providing them with details in encyclopedia format – pictures and all (what I wish WP would be in a very near future)
Don’t talk about opera fans. I don’t think die-heart opera fans would bother to read our articles about opera especially arias, simply because those who love opera would rather buy opera/libretto books/DVDs or spend their money to watch the opera live. People who don’t know opera will not bother to spend even a single cent or time like me and you guys to source/buy for books or read the libretto (even though I do not understand single words of Italian).
WP is a good place for people who want to learn without having them to pay. I sometimes feel tired explaining to people around me about the “songs” I played in my car/apartment/at work – to some of people , opera singers are bunch of crazy old men/women with weird crazy voices singing in a language they don’t understand. By providing them with the arias, commentary and the English translation, it would help them to understand the meaning of the arias and why the singer must cry or laugh while singing it. With this, I hope you guys would understand why I believe it is important for us to make WP as a complete encyclopedia. We do not need to post the complete libretto, let it be in WS but I wish if we could keep the arias here with all the links to the related opera titles, composers, singers etc.
The latest by this Sunday, I may have to transfer those 5 arias back to here (1 written by me but other 4 have been here for quite some time). I leave it up to you guys to think what to do with them and the rest of the arias in here. Please consider what I just said – why I think we should keep them or perhaps grow them or improve the format to the standard applicable to WP policy.. but don’t delete them. Besides, if it is true from what I heard /some of you also did mentioned about this ; the copyright of music compositions where the creator has been dead more than 100 years are free.. that would definitely narrow our licensing problem. I am not so sure about licensing, I can’t say much about it. PS- Sorry the the WS-WP trouble. To be frank, I regret moving them to WS in the first place. - Jay 18:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
I noticed that we are allowed to link articles with videos from youtube.com. Since we can do that, can we print screen the photos from there (the opera video) and put in up in the articles? Or, can we use snapshot pictures from DVDs (purchased by us for our personal use) for any articles, (refer example) from my own purchased DVD and can also be downloaded from youtube.com.- Jay 17:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Mak says “Since it is realistically possible to get a free image of a staging ot Tosca, or a free image of Plácido Domingo, or possibly both, it is very unlikely that we could use this content”.
Mak, I totally agree with you, I have read the Wiki policy when I first joined and I understood but, under some circumstances, I would say that the statement can be challenged / arguable. I said that because:- (let’s use the photo as an example)
Based on those 2 facts, don’t you think Wiki could slightly bend the policy? This is just a discussion; the “said” photo is use for this discussion only - Jay 01:38, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The information on requesting photos is at Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. I'm guessing a lot of singers or their publicists would be happy to release a nice photo for Wikipedia, since we're such a widely-used source, and so high in search results (first one I tried, Deborah Voigt, we're number 3). I'd encourage anyone who has a pet opera singer they'd like a photo for on WP see what they can do in terms of asking for photos. Mak (talk) 00:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
These are now off all opera composers pages (with the exception of one minor article: Michael Nyman). Thanks to everyione involved in the cleanup. However we still have boxes on pages devoted to singers etc. These can be as error-prone as the composers and for the same reason: the box creators generally don't seem to have read the articles etc. -- Kleinzach 00:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Modern scholars seem to prefer Rossini's first name with only one 'c'. We are using both versions. Can we fix on the one 'c', assuming there are no double 'c' fans here? Unfortunately this will mean cat changes. -- Kleinzach 02:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I've created a topic for this opera and cross-referenced it from Judith Weir. So far I've put in some performance history, references and the characters and original cast. Pity that a lot of red links have appeared. I plan to add the synopsis later. Others welcome. -- Peter cohen 16:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I registered in Wiki Source and wrote an article (aria) to test how to do linkage to here but to my surprised, it doesn’t work like WikiCommons. Wikicommons files are able to identify by file names. (Example: if the filename is Verdi.jpg, the photo will appear in any wiki pages without having us to do manual link). I copied “Svegliatevi nel core” to Wiki source and all the hyperlinks in “Svegliatevi nel core” article (in Wikisource) turn RED. And if I linked that page to Wiki EN, it comes out with tiny arrow at the end of the title name, just link our external links. I thought I want to write some famous arias in there but now I think I would rather do it in here (Wiki EN), at least until all these issues have been finalized - Jay 14:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Now that Sacred operas and Satirical operas have been deleted, we only have one major subject category left: Comic operas. Comedies probably account for a quarter to a third of all the 1,600 works listed on The opera corpus, however most of these are in specific genre categories: Drammi giocosi, Farse, Intermezzi, Opera buffa, Opéras bouffes, Opéras comiques, Opéras féeries, Operettas, and Singspiele.
Category:Comic operas has 70 entries comprising 58 works in English (of which 54 are late 19th century English works, many of them Gilbert and Sullivan) plus 5 Czech, 3 Russian, and one each of French, Danish, German and Italian operas.
The English items, or almost all of them, are closely related in style. Should we rename the category English comic operas? (The others could be removed bearing in mind that operas don't need to belong to a specific (sub) category.) -- Kleinzach 07:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The admin in Wikisource send me a message saying that "Arias" are better suited in Wikipedia than Wikisource. Well, I kinda agree with him because we usually write the article with some explanation and the translation of the aria. One other reason is because arias are not the complete libretto. It is of course, OK for Wikisource if we uploaded the entire libretto - (Public Domain or available under a GNU free use license). So, what do you guys think? So far I have transferred Svegliatevi nel core, Libiamo ne' lieti calici, Recondita armonia, E lucevan le stelle, La donna è mobile (and deleted the articles from Wikipedia). Planned to do many more but now I think I better put it on hold for a moment. I need to know your opinion whether we should have them here or Wikisource. I may have to transfer them all back here. PS- We have had this discussion before in ( Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive15)- Jay 03:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
To be honest, I think there may even by a policy problem with having these aria articles here: most of them, in my estimation, possibly fail Wikipedia:Notability. It's the "non-trivial" coverage that perturbs me when it comes to these arias: there aren't a huge amount of books written about just one aria, though there are probably a few exceptions. We do have to bear policy in mind: if these aria articles fail WP:N, they just can't remain here, whether they work at wikisource or no. Moreschi Talk 12:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Being an encyclopedia, in my opinion, it is good to have and to provide articles about opera arias for readers references. Bear in mind that not all readers out there know what is “opera” and what opera is all about.
By providing them with the details of the opera with synopsis, roles, aria lists and the “aria texts” would help them to understand the whole picture of the “opera”. I said this because I live in a country where 70% of populations do not know what opera is all about. By providing details to those who do not know or with only a bit knowledge about opera, would help them to understand more. I don’t know about you guys and people around you but based on own experience explaining to people who don’t know what opera is all about, the best way to educate them is by providing them with details in encyclopedia format – pictures and all (what I wish WP would be in a very near future)
Don’t talk about opera fans. I don’t think die-heart opera fans would bother to read our articles about opera especially arias, simply because those who love opera would rather buy opera/libretto books/DVDs or spend their money to watch the opera live. People who don’t know opera will not bother to spend even a single cent or time like me and you guys to source/buy for books or read the libretto (even though I do not understand single words of Italian).
WP is a good place for people who want to learn without having them to pay. I sometimes feel tired explaining to people around me about the “songs” I played in my car/apartment/at work – to some of people , opera singers are bunch of crazy old men/women with weird crazy voices singing in a language they don’t understand. By providing them with the arias, commentary and the English translation, it would help them to understand the meaning of the arias and why the singer must cry or laugh while singing it. With this, I hope you guys would understand why I believe it is important for us to make WP as a complete encyclopedia. We do not need to post the complete libretto, let it be in WS but I wish if we could keep the arias here with all the links to the related opera titles, composers, singers etc.
The latest by this Sunday, I may have to transfer those 5 arias back to here (1 written by me but other 4 have been here for quite some time). I leave it up to you guys to think what to do with them and the rest of the arias in here. Please consider what I just said – why I think we should keep them or perhaps grow them or improve the format to the standard applicable to WP policy.. but don’t delete them. Besides, if it is true from what I heard /some of you also did mentioned about this ; the copyright of music compositions where the creator has been dead more than 100 years are free.. that would definitely narrow our licensing problem. I am not so sure about licensing, I can’t say much about it. PS- Sorry the the WS-WP trouble. To be frank, I regret moving them to WS in the first place. - Jay 18:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)