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There have recently been created quite a few articles on individual arias that have links to youtube recordings and videos. For example Caro nome che il mio cor, created today, links to a recording by Callas on youtube, Ella giammai m'amò, links to youtube performances by Ferrucio Furlanetto and Christoff, Tu che le vanità, three youtube links. Is it OK to do this? Youtube links are unstable for one thing and these articles are likely to go for years without revision. If it is OK to link to youtube for individual arias, why don't we do it for entire operas? I could add a zillion of them. And I am sure at least some of these are copyright violations. Any advice? Smeat75 ( talk) 16:36, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Tim riley and I have been working on Rossini's article and now have it up for peer review, en route, we hope, to FAC. Any comments, queries or suggestions for improvement will be most welcome there.-- Smerus ( talk) 10:17, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
There's a requested move for La donna serpente (opera), which deals with the question if fame or history decide if a play gets a disambiguation or the opera based on it. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:10, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
So, it's been a while, but I think I'm back, at least for a while. Have a bit more time and energy for things. Trying to catch up on some of the old illustration projects.
is the first.
I have a number of things I can work on. Gallica has a LOT of images in that line. If people suggest things, I'll see what I can do. Need to remind myself how to download Gallica things, though, as two years off means you forget a lot of stuff. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 09:16, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, if you're not going to suggest things, you get what you get.
So, new image (
) - please position it in the article(s) as you see fit.
Adam Cuerden (
talk)Has about 8.8% of all
FPs 20:06, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
There is a separate article Les Huguenots discography which has a list containing many pirated recordings. Opera D'Oro might be OK but then there are really totally unacceptable ones imo "Handelman", "Premiere Opera" and others. I think they should all be removed, then the legitimate recordings moved to the Les Huguenots article and the "Les Huguenots discography" article deleted. It gets very very few views, unlike the main article. I am going to incorporate the most significant recordings into the main article and would welcome input as to what to do about the separate "discography". Smeat75 ( talk) 22:27, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
There are two new translated articles that could need a fresh pair of eyes to look at them. Ewandro Stenzowski and Landestheater Detmold. The first is translated from Brazilian Portuguese, the second from German. I have been reading machine translations and foreign languages all night, and fear I might have lost a bit of proper English along the way. Thanks! OrestesLebt ( talk) 19:14, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Did some work on de:Landesbühne, since I plan to translate the article and it was a bit outdated. If native german speakers could have a look at my edits before I start translating, I would be extremely grateful! (I'll leave a message at de:Wikipedia Diskussion:WikiProjekt Oper too.) OrestesLebt ( talk) 12:41, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Young tenor, on his way up. Repeated attempts to add PR promo, much of it copyvio, and a lengthy list of every bit part he's ever sung, starting in college. He's been reverted by three different editors, but he's very persistent [1], [2], [3], [4]. Needless to say the editor doing this is named... er... NickySpence. Voceditenore ( talk) 08:29, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Created, but deleted as the links I suggested as sources of additional info.... were instead directly translated. But I'd imagine there's some salvageable content in there if an admin wanted to go in and grab it and strip the copyvio? Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 04:01, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Please let me repost here something I wrote somewhere else and was left unanswered:
LouisAlain ( talk) 18:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
If the rules were to be strictly implemented, about 90% of Wikipedia (probably in all languages) should be deleted. That's a real dilemna indeed. There are hundreds of thousands pages only in the en. Wikipedia that lack basic references and external links, categories, authority control, portals, intra links etc. The fuss that erupted because of my good-faith based translations verges to surrealism. For what it's worth, LouisAlain ( talk) 12:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
User:LouisAlain, currently blocked for copyvios, has created more than three thousand articles [5] in his brief time here, a lot of them related to historic singers and other opera topics. I only paid attention to what he was doing the other day when I noticed he was creating hundreds of red links. The articles seem to be mostly translations (machine translations?) and a lot of the articles have no citations at all. We do get hoaxers like the edditor who invents phony opera recordings, how do we know he isn't making stuff up? They are written in very poor English, obviously in haste, for instance in this version of Joséphine Fodor [6], which I have since corrected, he spells "Saint Petersburg" three different ways in a few sentences - St. Petersburg,Saint-Petersbourg, and St-Petersbourg, this can only be carelessness, it cannot be excused by English not being his first language. The articles are full of howlers such as Shortly afterwards, she suffered from vocal affection or in another article he called recordings "audio carriers" [7]. I know he is collaborating with User:Gerda Arendt so I don't like to try to get him blocked indefinitely but these are really terrible articles and I cannot check three and a half thousand of them. Is it better to have these bad articles than no articles at all about the subjects? What should we do? Smeat75 ( talk) 14:03, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
I just had a chance to examine a resource RILM Music Encyclopedias - scanned/encoded versions of 54 dictionaries/encyclopedias. It's available at my public library but not from home (perhaps some academic institutions make it available from home for alumni). The list of encyclopedias is very interesting - I know a number of these works are among the only places to find biographical information on certain musicians. I've put the ones most useful for opera research in bold:
Hope this is of some use. - kosboot ( talk) 00:40, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
I have nominated List of important operas for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Giants2008 ( Talk) 16:40, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Just realized that this valuable book is available through the Internet Archive. https://archive.org/details/AnnalesOfOpera1597-1940. For those that have not used it, it not only gives the dates of the world premiere, but the dates of the first performance in other cities. It doesn't have absolutely everything, but has a great deal. - kosboot ( talk) 17:07, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
So. Should I replace the painting of Gluck in his infobox, or is this better used as I've put it. I've made it a bit large there for now - I'll probably CSS image crop out the border a bit once the restoration's 100% done since it needs a slight rotation - but there's this really nice figure of Hercules that's hard to see at thumbnail, and I want it seen. Also, I think this might be the third-oldest image I've ever worked on, dating from the 1776 première. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 20:56, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
There's some weird titles for some of our articles, as in, I can't find evidence anyone uses that name. Dante (opera), Haydée and so on. The last one more forgiveable (it seems the subtitle is almost universally included when talking about it, but it is, at least, a subtitle, the first one simply bizarre. Now, I have been fixing these as I find them ( Haydée, ou Le secret, Dante et Béatrice ) but it's probably worth noting that the lesser-known operas seem to be prone to weirdness that one should keep out an eye for. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 21:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
I think the number is a bit too much to show them all on here, but in case any of them are useful to other articles, here's what I produced during the Rossini push (Besides the one above)
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 05:37, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Smeat75: Here's an organised list of everything on Gallica I could find: Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 21:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
There's a series of illustrations definitely from the opera, which are a little meh.
Contemporary costumes, not very attractive compared to the other costume illustrations if you ask me:
Better contemporary costumes:
Sixteen costumes: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8454519h.r=Guillaume%20Tell?rk=579402;0
Chorus costumes + 4 nice illustrations of the opera: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b6401891j.r=Guillaume%20Tell?rk=665239;2
Two costumes, albeit not contemporary, but good:
Set designs from a revival:
One actor in a revival:
Decent, but a little weird:
Weird, but cool:
Now, these I'm not entirely convinced about being of the Rossini opera, despite claims:
Uncertain:
Meh:
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 21:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
That said, I am REALLY tempted to just do the whole set of https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8454519h.r=Guillaume%20Tell?rk=579402;0 - they're particularly beautiful costume designs, and unlike the Benvenuto Cellini set I need to finish sometime, don't have one horribly preserved one in the set to suck all life out of you working on it. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 22:09, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Okay. Here's what I found for various new articles:
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 14:52, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
If anyone is tempted to create an article via translation, there are tools that can let you know if the article you're translating is itself a copyvio. The main tool is Earwig's Copyvio Detector. Any result over 15-20% (unless the duplication consists of simple lists), and you shouldn't translate. This is the tool's result for de:Marlise Wendels, which was initially deleted here because it was a translation of a copyvio article on the German Wikipedia. ( Marlise Wendels has since been recreated here from scratch with different references.) Voceditenore ( talk) 16:36, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
One could maybe argue both ways on this, but File:Saint-Saëns-Henry-VIII-1883.jpg or https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7001018w/f1.item.r=Henry%20VIII%20opera.zoom ?
My inclination is that the second better represents the set, though the figures are likely a bit more arbitrary, and the former might have some indication of staging, but it works out to nothing more than a few hastily-sketched figures in a mob, with maybe some indication of a processional, so the second should win out. And, of course, the colour will make it look better in thumbnail. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.3% of all FPs 21:06, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, Smeat75, for copyediting. I came across a general question: how do we name operas and plays. In Günter Krämer: when we read the Stuttgurt section after copy-editing, we get the impression that English was the language of the house, with titles such as Dance of Death (billed and in the source Totentanz) and Mary Stuart (original title Maria Stuart. In the Rossini peer review, we agreed that when an opera is billed and sung in Italian, we better say Il barbiere di Siviglia, explaining once in brackets what that means in English. In 2019, most opera houses produce operas in their original language. I prefer to follow that trend. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 08:31, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
In the following table, I suggest we list articles where improvements by project members would be helpful, newest on top.
article | created | from | ce | ref | cv | DYK | notes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Hansgünther Heyme | 23 Feb | de | ![]() |
15 Apr | |||
Margit Bokor | 9 Feb | de | ![]() |
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22 Mar | ||
Karl-Josef Kutsch | 9 Feb | de | ![]() |
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18 Mar | ||
Karl Hammes | 8 Feb | de | ![]() |
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|||
Sylvia Gähwiller | 8 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Ria Ginster | 8 Feb | de | ![]() |
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20 Mar | ||
Leo Riemens | 7 Feb | de | 18 Mar | ||||
Martin Abendroth | 7 Feb | de | ![]() |
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|||
Tugomir Franc | 5 Feb | de | ![]() |
||||
Koloman von Pataky | 5 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Marc Piollet | 4 Feb | de | ![]() |
15 Mar | |||
Robert Schunk | 2 Feb | de | ![]() |
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10 Mar | ||
Ruthilde Boesch | 2 Feb | de | ![]() |
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10 Mar | ||
Spas Wenkoff | 2 Feb | de | ![]() |
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12 Mar | ||
Alfred Jerger | 1 Feb | de | ![]() |
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2 Mar | ||
Claire Born | 1 Feb | de | ![]() |
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4 Mar | ||
Günter Krämer | 31 Jan | de | ![]() |
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many details, was proposed for deletion | ||
Julia Kleiter | 29 Jan | de | ![]() |
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27 Feb | was moved to draft | |
Sophie Karthäuser | 22 Jan | fr | ![]() |
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26 Feb | ||
Vincent Boussard | 18 Jan | fr | ![]() |
24 Feb | |||
Genia Kühmeier | 17 Jan | de | ![]() |
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22 Feb | ||
Ute Vinzing | 7 Jan | de | ![]() |
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de article written by aficionado | ||
Albert Dohmen | 3 Jan | de | ![]() |
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23 Jan | ||
Ildikó Raimondi | 2 Jan | de | ![]() |
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12 Feb |
Moved to draft, which should be rescued: Draft:Volker Bräutigam. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 19:50, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
Smeat75, thank you for all the prose checking and improving! -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:01, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
<ref name="Kutsch/Riemens">{{cite book | last = Kutsch | first = K. J. | authorlink = Karl-Josef Kutsch | last2 = Riemens | first2 = Leo | authorlink2 = Leo Riemens | url = https://books.google.com/books?id=dsfq_5dFeL0C&pg=1948 | title = Hammes, Karl | work = [[Großes Sängerlexikon]] | publisher = [[Walter de Gruyter]] | edition = 4 | language = de | year = 2012 | page = 1948 | isbn = 978-3-59-844088-5 }}</ref>
Gioachino Rossini now up for FA review. -- Smerus ( talk) 22:57, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello! Your WikiProject has been selected to participate in the WP 1.0 Bot rewrite beta. This means that, starting in the next few days or weeks, your assessment tables will be updated using code in the new bot, codenamed Lucky. You can read more about this change on the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team page. Thanks! audiodude ( talk) 06:50, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
To a wonderful composer of wonderful things who must make do with March 1st for three out of his every four birthdays.
Pace gioia, Gioacchino! Voceditenore ( talk) 13:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Voceditenore, we all owe you much gratitude for your monthly rotation of topics at the head of this page. However, I noticed that when I click on "Upcoming Anniversaries" it searches for the year 2018 instead of 2019. Thanks for all that you do! - kosboot ( talk) 16:30, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Having done a few popular operas, like Fervaal and La Esmeralda, I thought I'd indulge in something a bit more obscure.
I'm not sure I succeeded in the obscurity. Ah, well! Will finish it up, then on to popular operas like La Réve or Thérèse
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.4% of all FPs 12:05, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Going just by images featured on the portal - which is kind of a rough guide, as certain FPs are used with FAs or biographies instead of the FP list, I believe some are missing, some are used thematically (e.g. a picture of X, which is the subject of opera Y), and there's also the crossover with the Gilbert and Sullivan Wikiproject, from which only a smaller selection of images were used in our Portal - but, issues with the count aside, we're at 99 FPs in the portal. Next one will be full hundred. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.4% of all FPs 17:46, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Since I quite like the current crop.... Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.4% of all FPs 19:03, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
The whole Portal space is in the midst of a sprawling controversy spilling over multiple pages. At one point there was a proposal at the Village Pump to eliminate Portal space entirely because of the fairly large number of poorly constructed, overly narrow, and neglected portals. It was defeated as throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. But as a result, a group of editors decided to "revitalize" WikiProject Portals. The original plan was to weed out and delete the hopeless portals and improve the ones on major topics that had been neglected. Well, it was a disaster. They developed a tool to fully automate portals, i.e. turning them into glorified navboxes with no human input as to the choice and quality of the articles and images. They then started converting every portal to this "improved" version and deleting all their subpages unless the portal had a designated maintainer. Needless to say, I nipped over there straight away and made sure they left Portal:Opera, a Featured Portal, strictly alone.
However, they pretty much trashed quite a few decent portals, including featured ones like Portal:Medicine (now reverted to its pre-automated state). They then used their tool, which can create a portal in three minutes, to create over 2000 (!) more portals on even more narrow topics like Yogurt and Rabbits. The result is an ongoing massive discussion at AN and hundreds of time-consuming and at times acrimonious MFDs for the new portals and some old ones. So there you have it. If you haven't already done so, you might want to put Portal:Opera on your watchlist. It currently has 40 watchers, but some of the watchers may no longer be editing Wikipedia. It's been 10 years since we revamped it completely and it was promoted to Featured Portal status. Voceditenore ( talk) 08:56, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt and I have a phrasing question that came up in Template:Did you know nominations/Raphaëlle Boitel. If someone works as the choreographer for an opera, how should that best be phrased? Currently, Raphaëlle_Boitel#Choreographer says "Boitel choreographed her first opera in ...", which is how I wrote it, but which Gerda is uncomfortable with. She knows a lot more about opera than I do (I've probably seen ten or fewer, and have spent ten or fewer minutes with anyone who describes themselves as a choreographer), and suggests we ask here. For more detail, sources (mostly in French, I'm afraid) say Boitel choreographed dance scenes for one opera, introduced circus performance scenes to another, and are not clear on what exactly she choreographed for her first, just say "Choreography: Raphaëlle Boitel", and yet we shouldn't leave that out as it was her first opera choreography work and at La Scala, which seems to be IT. -- GRuban ( talk) 07:29, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Felix Mendelssohn is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Felix Mendelssohn until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
It happened again, Draft:Oesterreichisches Musiklexikon. This is a source used often, including for Margit Bokor. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 13:22, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Now an artist but claims to have started out as an opera singer. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wynn Creasy. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Teatro Regio (Turin) will possibly be linked from the Main page tomorrow. No references, a lead that doesn't even mention that today's house looks diferent from the stunning lead image, - and that's only the beginning. I had hoped to do it but am running out of time. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 16:48, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
It wasn't linked after all, see above, but would profit from improvement. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 05:55, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Genuine question: do you want people helping out on creating pages within this wikiproject, or is it just a pain for the regulars, creating tidying up work for you? Because I can't see any purpose in sarcastic edit summaries like this one except to dissuade us almost- true 14:06, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
I've stepped up and made a suggestion, which has nothing to do with, say, wanting to perform Le loup-garou in the Edinburgh Fringe within the next couple years. [1] That said, she is a fascinating composer, and one has to wonder what would have become of her had she had the benefit of not being cut off so early. It kind of feels like judging Wagner by Die Feen, or Verdi by Oberto. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.5% of all FPs 21:47, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
An edit war is taking place at the article on Mario Del Monaco. Several revisions by User Kaja Enäveri were undone three times (twice by myself) and four times substantially repeated by the same User. In my opinion her edits are to be considered disruptive inasmuch as they add unsourced laudatory statements, remove sourced information and all references , merge the section "Biography" with incipit, insist on writing contractions without an apostrophe, and so on. The User has given no replies to messages posted either on her talk page or on the article's. To date, the status of the article seems completely unpresentable to me, but I am uncertain whether I am entitled to intervene again, and I'd like instead someone else to take a look at the matter and proceed as necessary, according to Wikipedia rules, possibly reverting all intermediate edits to the 30 January version by Ser Amantio di Nicolao ( oldid 880954077).-- Jeanambr ( talk) 08:33, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Sadly, Deborah Cook (soprano) died, with an article rich in detail, and poor in sources. I did my part with the Kutsch-Riemens source (which has the birth year wrong by 10 years), but there's much to be done with her later career. Help? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 18:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
One of the great sopranos, and a practically unsourced article: Leonie Rysanek. Help? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 20:41, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
An editor has requested the move of Les pêcheurs de perles to Les Pêcheurs de perles (currently a redirect [10]). The discussion is at Talk:Les pêcheurs de perles#Requested move 4 May 2019. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 10:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Someone "instructed" by the subject, Sara Hershkowitz, removing year of birth which is ok with me (I reverted once), and adding unsourced things. I reverted and explained the need for independent sources and encyclopedic language, but please watch. If you missed her Ligeti performance, change that ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 21:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
DYK gives me problems when I say "she created the role", but I remember having been told that that's the way to say it, and "role" not "part". Clarification would be nice. - It's a phrase used in DYK hooks as early as 2010. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 17:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
I hope you'll forgive me, but I'm rather excited about this one. It's my largest restoration in a while, and came out quite well, methinks.
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.6% of all FPs 10:55, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
This might be an odd question, but I've basically found SOMETHING featureable for every Massenet opera (at least, every one performed, I believe he has some lost operas) but Bacchus, La grand'tante, and Amadis, usually a poster. Any suggestions for those three? Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.6% of all FPs 01:42, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 125 | ← | Archive 129 | Archive 130 | Archive 131 | Archive 132 | Archive 133 | → | Archive 135 |
There have recently been created quite a few articles on individual arias that have links to youtube recordings and videos. For example Caro nome che il mio cor, created today, links to a recording by Callas on youtube, Ella giammai m'amò, links to youtube performances by Ferrucio Furlanetto and Christoff, Tu che le vanità, three youtube links. Is it OK to do this? Youtube links are unstable for one thing and these articles are likely to go for years without revision. If it is OK to link to youtube for individual arias, why don't we do it for entire operas? I could add a zillion of them. And I am sure at least some of these are copyright violations. Any advice? Smeat75 ( talk) 16:36, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Tim riley and I have been working on Rossini's article and now have it up for peer review, en route, we hope, to FAC. Any comments, queries or suggestions for improvement will be most welcome there.-- Smerus ( talk) 10:17, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
There's a requested move for La donna serpente (opera), which deals with the question if fame or history decide if a play gets a disambiguation or the opera based on it. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:10, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
So, it's been a while, but I think I'm back, at least for a while. Have a bit more time and energy for things. Trying to catch up on some of the old illustration projects.
is the first.
I have a number of things I can work on. Gallica has a LOT of images in that line. If people suggest things, I'll see what I can do. Need to remind myself how to download Gallica things, though, as two years off means you forget a lot of stuff. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 09:16, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, if you're not going to suggest things, you get what you get.
So, new image (
) - please position it in the article(s) as you see fit.
Adam Cuerden (
talk)Has about 8.8% of all
FPs 20:06, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
There is a separate article Les Huguenots discography which has a list containing many pirated recordings. Opera D'Oro might be OK but then there are really totally unacceptable ones imo "Handelman", "Premiere Opera" and others. I think they should all be removed, then the legitimate recordings moved to the Les Huguenots article and the "Les Huguenots discography" article deleted. It gets very very few views, unlike the main article. I am going to incorporate the most significant recordings into the main article and would welcome input as to what to do about the separate "discography". Smeat75 ( talk) 22:27, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
There are two new translated articles that could need a fresh pair of eyes to look at them. Ewandro Stenzowski and Landestheater Detmold. The first is translated from Brazilian Portuguese, the second from German. I have been reading machine translations and foreign languages all night, and fear I might have lost a bit of proper English along the way. Thanks! OrestesLebt ( talk) 19:14, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Did some work on de:Landesbühne, since I plan to translate the article and it was a bit outdated. If native german speakers could have a look at my edits before I start translating, I would be extremely grateful! (I'll leave a message at de:Wikipedia Diskussion:WikiProjekt Oper too.) OrestesLebt ( talk) 12:41, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Young tenor, on his way up. Repeated attempts to add PR promo, much of it copyvio, and a lengthy list of every bit part he's ever sung, starting in college. He's been reverted by three different editors, but he's very persistent [1], [2], [3], [4]. Needless to say the editor doing this is named... er... NickySpence. Voceditenore ( talk) 08:29, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Created, but deleted as the links I suggested as sources of additional info.... were instead directly translated. But I'd imagine there's some salvageable content in there if an admin wanted to go in and grab it and strip the copyvio? Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 04:01, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Please let me repost here something I wrote somewhere else and was left unanswered:
LouisAlain ( talk) 18:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
If the rules were to be strictly implemented, about 90% of Wikipedia (probably in all languages) should be deleted. That's a real dilemna indeed. There are hundreds of thousands pages only in the en. Wikipedia that lack basic references and external links, categories, authority control, portals, intra links etc. The fuss that erupted because of my good-faith based translations verges to surrealism. For what it's worth, LouisAlain ( talk) 12:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
User:LouisAlain, currently blocked for copyvios, has created more than three thousand articles [5] in his brief time here, a lot of them related to historic singers and other opera topics. I only paid attention to what he was doing the other day when I noticed he was creating hundreds of red links. The articles seem to be mostly translations (machine translations?) and a lot of the articles have no citations at all. We do get hoaxers like the edditor who invents phony opera recordings, how do we know he isn't making stuff up? They are written in very poor English, obviously in haste, for instance in this version of Joséphine Fodor [6], which I have since corrected, he spells "Saint Petersburg" three different ways in a few sentences - St. Petersburg,Saint-Petersbourg, and St-Petersbourg, this can only be carelessness, it cannot be excused by English not being his first language. The articles are full of howlers such as Shortly afterwards, she suffered from vocal affection or in another article he called recordings "audio carriers" [7]. I know he is collaborating with User:Gerda Arendt so I don't like to try to get him blocked indefinitely but these are really terrible articles and I cannot check three and a half thousand of them. Is it better to have these bad articles than no articles at all about the subjects? What should we do? Smeat75 ( talk) 14:03, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
I just had a chance to examine a resource RILM Music Encyclopedias - scanned/encoded versions of 54 dictionaries/encyclopedias. It's available at my public library but not from home (perhaps some academic institutions make it available from home for alumni). The list of encyclopedias is very interesting - I know a number of these works are among the only places to find biographical information on certain musicians. I've put the ones most useful for opera research in bold:
Hope this is of some use. - kosboot ( talk) 00:40, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
I have nominated List of important operas for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Giants2008 ( Talk) 16:40, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Just realized that this valuable book is available through the Internet Archive. https://archive.org/details/AnnalesOfOpera1597-1940. For those that have not used it, it not only gives the dates of the world premiere, but the dates of the first performance in other cities. It doesn't have absolutely everything, but has a great deal. - kosboot ( talk) 17:07, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
So. Should I replace the painting of Gluck in his infobox, or is this better used as I've put it. I've made it a bit large there for now - I'll probably CSS image crop out the border a bit once the restoration's 100% done since it needs a slight rotation - but there's this really nice figure of Hercules that's hard to see at thumbnail, and I want it seen. Also, I think this might be the third-oldest image I've ever worked on, dating from the 1776 première. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 20:56, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
There's some weird titles for some of our articles, as in, I can't find evidence anyone uses that name. Dante (opera), Haydée and so on. The last one more forgiveable (it seems the subtitle is almost universally included when talking about it, but it is, at least, a subtitle, the first one simply bizarre. Now, I have been fixing these as I find them ( Haydée, ou Le secret, Dante et Béatrice ) but it's probably worth noting that the lesser-known operas seem to be prone to weirdness that one should keep out an eye for. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 21:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
I think the number is a bit too much to show them all on here, but in case any of them are useful to other articles, here's what I produced during the Rossini push (Besides the one above)
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 05:37, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Smeat75: Here's an organised list of everything on Gallica I could find: Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 21:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
There's a series of illustrations definitely from the opera, which are a little meh.
Contemporary costumes, not very attractive compared to the other costume illustrations if you ask me:
Better contemporary costumes:
Sixteen costumes: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8454519h.r=Guillaume%20Tell?rk=579402;0
Chorus costumes + 4 nice illustrations of the opera: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b6401891j.r=Guillaume%20Tell?rk=665239;2
Two costumes, albeit not contemporary, but good:
Set designs from a revival:
One actor in a revival:
Decent, but a little weird:
Weird, but cool:
Now, these I'm not entirely convinced about being of the Rossini opera, despite claims:
Uncertain:
Meh:
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 21:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
That said, I am REALLY tempted to just do the whole set of https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8454519h.r=Guillaume%20Tell?rk=579402;0 - they're particularly beautiful costume designs, and unlike the Benvenuto Cellini set I need to finish sometime, don't have one horribly preserved one in the set to suck all life out of you working on it. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 22:09, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Okay. Here's what I found for various new articles:
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs 14:52, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
If anyone is tempted to create an article via translation, there are tools that can let you know if the article you're translating is itself a copyvio. The main tool is Earwig's Copyvio Detector. Any result over 15-20% (unless the duplication consists of simple lists), and you shouldn't translate. This is the tool's result for de:Marlise Wendels, which was initially deleted here because it was a translation of a copyvio article on the German Wikipedia. ( Marlise Wendels has since been recreated here from scratch with different references.) Voceditenore ( talk) 16:36, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
One could maybe argue both ways on this, but File:Saint-Saëns-Henry-VIII-1883.jpg or https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7001018w/f1.item.r=Henry%20VIII%20opera.zoom ?
My inclination is that the second better represents the set, though the figures are likely a bit more arbitrary, and the former might have some indication of staging, but it works out to nothing more than a few hastily-sketched figures in a mob, with maybe some indication of a processional, so the second should win out. And, of course, the colour will make it look better in thumbnail. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.3% of all FPs 21:06, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, Smeat75, for copyediting. I came across a general question: how do we name operas and plays. In Günter Krämer: when we read the Stuttgurt section after copy-editing, we get the impression that English was the language of the house, with titles such as Dance of Death (billed and in the source Totentanz) and Mary Stuart (original title Maria Stuart. In the Rossini peer review, we agreed that when an opera is billed and sung in Italian, we better say Il barbiere di Siviglia, explaining once in brackets what that means in English. In 2019, most opera houses produce operas in their original language. I prefer to follow that trend. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 08:31, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
In the following table, I suggest we list articles where improvements by project members would be helpful, newest on top.
article | created | from | ce | ref | cv | DYK | notes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Hansgünther Heyme | 23 Feb | de | ![]() |
15 Apr | |||
Margit Bokor | 9 Feb | de | ![]() |
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22 Mar | ||
Karl-Josef Kutsch | 9 Feb | de | ![]() |
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18 Mar | ||
Karl Hammes | 8 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Sylvia Gähwiller | 8 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Ria Ginster | 8 Feb | de | ![]() |
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20 Mar | ||
Leo Riemens | 7 Feb | de | 18 Mar | ||||
Martin Abendroth | 7 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Tugomir Franc | 5 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Koloman von Pataky | 5 Feb | de | ![]() |
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Marc Piollet | 4 Feb | de | ![]() |
15 Mar | |||
Robert Schunk | 2 Feb | de | ![]() |
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10 Mar | ||
Ruthilde Boesch | 2 Feb | de | ![]() |
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10 Mar | ||
Spas Wenkoff | 2 Feb | de | ![]() |
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12 Mar | ||
Alfred Jerger | 1 Feb | de | ![]() |
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2 Mar | ||
Claire Born | 1 Feb | de | ![]() |
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4 Mar | ||
Günter Krämer | 31 Jan | de | ![]() |
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many details, was proposed for deletion | ||
Julia Kleiter | 29 Jan | de | ![]() |
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27 Feb | was moved to draft | |
Sophie Karthäuser | 22 Jan | fr | ![]() |
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26 Feb | ||
Vincent Boussard | 18 Jan | fr | ![]() |
24 Feb | |||
Genia Kühmeier | 17 Jan | de | ![]() |
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22 Feb | ||
Ute Vinzing | 7 Jan | de | ![]() |
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de article written by aficionado | ||
Albert Dohmen | 3 Jan | de | ![]() |
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23 Jan | ||
Ildikó Raimondi | 2 Jan | de | ![]() |
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12 Feb |
Moved to draft, which should be rescued: Draft:Volker Bräutigam. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 19:50, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
Smeat75, thank you for all the prose checking and improving! -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:01, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
<ref name="Kutsch/Riemens">{{cite book | last = Kutsch | first = K. J. | authorlink = Karl-Josef Kutsch | last2 = Riemens | first2 = Leo | authorlink2 = Leo Riemens | url = https://books.google.com/books?id=dsfq_5dFeL0C&pg=1948 | title = Hammes, Karl | work = [[Großes Sängerlexikon]] | publisher = [[Walter de Gruyter]] | edition = 4 | language = de | year = 2012 | page = 1948 | isbn = 978-3-59-844088-5 }}</ref>
Gioachino Rossini now up for FA review. -- Smerus ( talk) 22:57, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello! Your WikiProject has been selected to participate in the WP 1.0 Bot rewrite beta. This means that, starting in the next few days or weeks, your assessment tables will be updated using code in the new bot, codenamed Lucky. You can read more about this change on the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team page. Thanks! audiodude ( talk) 06:50, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
To a wonderful composer of wonderful things who must make do with March 1st for three out of his every four birthdays.
Pace gioia, Gioacchino! Voceditenore ( talk) 13:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Voceditenore, we all owe you much gratitude for your monthly rotation of topics at the head of this page. However, I noticed that when I click on "Upcoming Anniversaries" it searches for the year 2018 instead of 2019. Thanks for all that you do! - kosboot ( talk) 16:30, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Having done a few popular operas, like Fervaal and La Esmeralda, I thought I'd indulge in something a bit more obscure.
I'm not sure I succeeded in the obscurity. Ah, well! Will finish it up, then on to popular operas like La Réve or Thérèse
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.4% of all FPs 12:05, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Going just by images featured on the portal - which is kind of a rough guide, as certain FPs are used with FAs or biographies instead of the FP list, I believe some are missing, some are used thematically (e.g. a picture of X, which is the subject of opera Y), and there's also the crossover with the Gilbert and Sullivan Wikiproject, from which only a smaller selection of images were used in our Portal - but, issues with the count aside, we're at 99 FPs in the portal. Next one will be full hundred. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.4% of all FPs 17:46, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Since I quite like the current crop.... Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.4% of all FPs 19:03, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
The whole Portal space is in the midst of a sprawling controversy spilling over multiple pages. At one point there was a proposal at the Village Pump to eliminate Portal space entirely because of the fairly large number of poorly constructed, overly narrow, and neglected portals. It was defeated as throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. But as a result, a group of editors decided to "revitalize" WikiProject Portals. The original plan was to weed out and delete the hopeless portals and improve the ones on major topics that had been neglected. Well, it was a disaster. They developed a tool to fully automate portals, i.e. turning them into glorified navboxes with no human input as to the choice and quality of the articles and images. They then started converting every portal to this "improved" version and deleting all their subpages unless the portal had a designated maintainer. Needless to say, I nipped over there straight away and made sure they left Portal:Opera, a Featured Portal, strictly alone.
However, they pretty much trashed quite a few decent portals, including featured ones like Portal:Medicine (now reverted to its pre-automated state). They then used their tool, which can create a portal in three minutes, to create over 2000 (!) more portals on even more narrow topics like Yogurt and Rabbits. The result is an ongoing massive discussion at AN and hundreds of time-consuming and at times acrimonious MFDs for the new portals and some old ones. So there you have it. If you haven't already done so, you might want to put Portal:Opera on your watchlist. It currently has 40 watchers, but some of the watchers may no longer be editing Wikipedia. It's been 10 years since we revamped it completely and it was promoted to Featured Portal status. Voceditenore ( talk) 08:56, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt and I have a phrasing question that came up in Template:Did you know nominations/Raphaëlle Boitel. If someone works as the choreographer for an opera, how should that best be phrased? Currently, Raphaëlle_Boitel#Choreographer says "Boitel choreographed her first opera in ...", which is how I wrote it, but which Gerda is uncomfortable with. She knows a lot more about opera than I do (I've probably seen ten or fewer, and have spent ten or fewer minutes with anyone who describes themselves as a choreographer), and suggests we ask here. For more detail, sources (mostly in French, I'm afraid) say Boitel choreographed dance scenes for one opera, introduced circus performance scenes to another, and are not clear on what exactly she choreographed for her first, just say "Choreography: Raphaëlle Boitel", and yet we shouldn't leave that out as it was her first opera choreography work and at La Scala, which seems to be IT. -- GRuban ( talk) 07:29, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Felix Mendelssohn is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Felix Mendelssohn until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
It happened again, Draft:Oesterreichisches Musiklexikon. This is a source used often, including for Margit Bokor. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 13:22, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Now an artist but claims to have started out as an opera singer. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wynn Creasy. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Teatro Regio (Turin) will possibly be linked from the Main page tomorrow. No references, a lead that doesn't even mention that today's house looks diferent from the stunning lead image, - and that's only the beginning. I had hoped to do it but am running out of time. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 16:48, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
It wasn't linked after all, see above, but would profit from improvement. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 05:55, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Genuine question: do you want people helping out on creating pages within this wikiproject, or is it just a pain for the regulars, creating tidying up work for you? Because I can't see any purpose in sarcastic edit summaries like this one except to dissuade us almost- true 14:06, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
I've stepped up and made a suggestion, which has nothing to do with, say, wanting to perform Le loup-garou in the Edinburgh Fringe within the next couple years. [1] That said, she is a fascinating composer, and one has to wonder what would have become of her had she had the benefit of not being cut off so early. It kind of feels like judging Wagner by Die Feen, or Verdi by Oberto. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.5% of all FPs 21:47, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
An edit war is taking place at the article on Mario Del Monaco. Several revisions by User Kaja Enäveri were undone three times (twice by myself) and four times substantially repeated by the same User. In my opinion her edits are to be considered disruptive inasmuch as they add unsourced laudatory statements, remove sourced information and all references , merge the section "Biography" with incipit, insist on writing contractions without an apostrophe, and so on. The User has given no replies to messages posted either on her talk page or on the article's. To date, the status of the article seems completely unpresentable to me, but I am uncertain whether I am entitled to intervene again, and I'd like instead someone else to take a look at the matter and proceed as necessary, according to Wikipedia rules, possibly reverting all intermediate edits to the 30 January version by Ser Amantio di Nicolao ( oldid 880954077).-- Jeanambr ( talk) 08:33, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Sadly, Deborah Cook (soprano) died, with an article rich in detail, and poor in sources. I did my part with the Kutsch-Riemens source (which has the birth year wrong by 10 years), but there's much to be done with her later career. Help? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 18:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
One of the great sopranos, and a practically unsourced article: Leonie Rysanek. Help? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 20:41, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
An editor has requested the move of Les pêcheurs de perles to Les Pêcheurs de perles (currently a redirect [10]). The discussion is at Talk:Les pêcheurs de perles#Requested move 4 May 2019. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 10:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Someone "instructed" by the subject, Sara Hershkowitz, removing year of birth which is ok with me (I reverted once), and adding unsourced things. I reverted and explained the need for independent sources and encyclopedic language, but please watch. If you missed her Ligeti performance, change that ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 21:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
DYK gives me problems when I say "she created the role", but I remember having been told that that's the way to say it, and "role" not "part". Clarification would be nice. - It's a phrase used in DYK hooks as early as 2010. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 17:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
I hope you'll forgive me, but I'm rather excited about this one. It's my largest restoration in a while, and came out quite well, methinks.
Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.6% of all FPs 10:55, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
This might be an odd question, but I've basically found SOMETHING featureable for every Massenet opera (at least, every one performed, I believe he has some lost operas) but Bacchus, La grand'tante, and Amadis, usually a poster. Any suggestions for those three? Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 6.6% of all FPs 01:42, 3 June 2019 (UTC)