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I see that about 20 per cent of the Grand Opera article now deals with 'American Indian Grand Opera'. Does anyone know why this subject is treated so prominently? Incidentally it seems that the contrubution has been signed by someone called Brent Michael Davids - a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias?
Is there a history here that someone knows about? Best. - Kleinzach 17:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I'm Brent Michael Davids (www.brentmichaeldavids.com), one of the top Am. Indian composers in the USA. There are mabny Indian operas, but Gertrude's opera was indeed a Grand opera, fitting that definition. The entry could be split probably, because there are other operas listed which were not grand operas. Both are needed. If English operas, denoting those created by English composers, are listed than Am. Indian grand opera is legitimate for this entry. However, if the article must be weighted to correspond to the field as a whole, the article may be too heavy on Am. Indian grand opera. There are more though they are not easily googled and my sources were from books that I own, and ones trhat I myself have been featured in (and thereby happen to have in my personal library). I would recommend shrtening the Indian grand opera entry to balance the weight of the entire entry, and splitting off another category of American Indian opera, which can then be greatly expanded. There are also sub categories of Indianist operas for the more general Indian opera category. At any rate, it takes time to build up these articles, and there are only a limited number of American Indian composer scholars around to do it. My own CV is here < http://www.filmcomposer.us/Davids_CV.pdf> if you wsh to corroborate who I am. Thanks! -- Brent Michael Davids 00:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
We started the Composer of the Month list to encorage new members to contribute as well as to concentrate on areas where our coverage is poor.
I note that virtually no-one has written anything about the operas listed for this month (November), not even those who made up the list. Is this because no-one is interested or because the information is not available? Many of the works are new to me. Are they listed in Grove?
I wonder whether the list of women composers for December will generate any more interest? The Musgrave operas have short entries in Grove, and L’amour de loin has enjoyed critical success but the others? Is anyone going to write about them?
I recommend that for January we return to a policy of featuring the most famous composers. My suggestion would be to do Rameau, Rossini or Offenbach. Any preferences or other ideas? Best - Kleinzach 16:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I have filled in Rameau for January (above) as it seems there are no objections. (Incidentally, Minkowski is giving a Rameau concert in Grenoble with the Musiciens du Louvre on December 15 but unfortunately I haven't been able to get tickets . . .) - Kleinzach 20:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Great. I was planning to have decent articles on all Rameau's works (plus a revised biography) by the end of 2007 anyway, so this will be a big help. Weber is a good choice too. Maybe Adam and the rest of the G&S crew will be particularly interested in overhauling the Oberon article, given it was set to an English libretto by James Robinson Planche and they seem to have a lot of info about 19th century British theatre. -- Folantin 09:50, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
That reminds me: If there's any opera written in English or with a known date of first performance in England within the period 1800-1900, please tell me: It is likely I can pick up some nice out-of-copyright images for it in the course of some other research. Vanished user talk 10:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I feel reasonably confident of my ability to get Smyth up to shape, but not the other composers. Anyone else working on them? Vanished user talk 22:36, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I propose we start a 'Special Projects' box to go above or below the 'Composer of the Month'.
This could list our larger, ongoing projects - for example the current revision of the List of important operas or developing good/featured articles - projects which last more than a month and are outside the scope of the monthly series.
These 'special' projects might be set up by any group of four or five members working together, and to the extent that they were adopted 'officially' by the Opera Project might serve to protect participants from outside harassment.
I welcome comments. Please don't hesitate to shoot the whole thing down if you don't think it will work - or you think a different approach is needed! - Kleinzach 13:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. We need a title. Opera Project project is a bit clunky. How about (Opera Project) 'Work in Progress'? - Kleinzach 21:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Could always go for cute, "WikiSubprojects Opera" "WikipProject Opera WikiWorkgroups" or, more sanely, "WikiProject Opera Subgroups." Vanished user talk 14:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
One thing that needs doing (IMO) is grading existing opera articles in some way so that we can see which ones need attention - missing character-listing, synopsis too brief or non-existent, no info about recordings, etc., etc. The Biography Project has a grading system that might do, maybe with modification: Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Assessment - I keep coming across their banner on composers' talk pages. -- GuillaumeTell 18:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Another thing is the navigational boxes: I've created Template:Mozart Operas and Template:Mozart Operas wide (which needs more work) and stuck them, respectively, into Il re pastore and Mitridate Rè di Ponto (something wrong with that title) as a start. Comments welcome on my talk page, but if we're going to do more of these we need some consensus, e.g. on where they go, and some division of labour. -- GuillaumeTell 18:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
An update: Kleinzach and I have reached a final form for Template:Mozart Operas, and I've added it to all of them (except King Thamos, whose Stub or Start I'm about to start composing). Both of us noticed while engaged in this operation that most Mozart operas could do with more work!
I'll add a para about the template, which we think would be a useful model, on the main Project Page. Comments welcome.-- GuillaumeTell 17:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Having been away, I hadn't noticed this or the Strauss navigational box. They look great! Much more useful than a generic opera infobox. Fireplace 22:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I have just been looking at the first paragragh of the Opera buffa and read:
. . . Leading composers include Mozart, Rossini, and Bizet but many others made a significant contribution to the genre and provided great influence for these composers; Mozart in particular. These include, Claudio Goffenberg, Heinz Goering and Lucio Allapenzio. The librettist Alfonso Madrigali was a close friend of Mozart and helped him to establish the opera buffa style to its full dramatic potential. He favoured librettos with somewhat lewd and erotic texts, and was highly accomplished at integrating his favourite themes into the operas with the utmost subtlety. For example, in Act two of Le nozze di Figaro, Mozart and Madrigali collaborated to ensure that the homosexual tendencies of the protagonist did not become obvious throughout. . . .
Is this a hoax? I couldn't find Alfonso Madrigali at all when I searched on Google. As we all know the librettist of Figaro was da Ponte. - Kleinzach 23:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
To cut down on project page clutter I have started a new sub page for User and project boxes.
This includes a new user box (with a picture of the Leipzig Opera). - Kleinzach 10:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
I see that about 20 per cent of the Grand Opera article now deals with 'American Indian Grand Opera'. Does anyone know why this subject is treated so prominently? Incidentally it seems that the contrubution has been signed by someone called Brent Michael Davids - a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias?
Is there a history here that someone knows about? Best. - Kleinzach 17:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I'm Brent Michael Davids (www.brentmichaeldavids.com), one of the top Am. Indian composers in the USA. There are mabny Indian operas, but Gertrude's opera was indeed a Grand opera, fitting that definition. The entry could be split probably, because there are other operas listed which were not grand operas. Both are needed. If English operas, denoting those created by English composers, are listed than Am. Indian grand opera is legitimate for this entry. However, if the article must be weighted to correspond to the field as a whole, the article may be too heavy on Am. Indian grand opera. There are more though they are not easily googled and my sources were from books that I own, and ones trhat I myself have been featured in (and thereby happen to have in my personal library). I would recommend shrtening the Indian grand opera entry to balance the weight of the entire entry, and splitting off another category of American Indian opera, which can then be greatly expanded. There are also sub categories of Indianist operas for the more general Indian opera category. At any rate, it takes time to build up these articles, and there are only a limited number of American Indian composer scholars around to do it. My own CV is here < http://www.filmcomposer.us/Davids_CV.pdf> if you wsh to corroborate who I am. Thanks! -- Brent Michael Davids 00:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
We started the Composer of the Month list to encorage new members to contribute as well as to concentrate on areas where our coverage is poor.
I note that virtually no-one has written anything about the operas listed for this month (November), not even those who made up the list. Is this because no-one is interested or because the information is not available? Many of the works are new to me. Are they listed in Grove?
I wonder whether the list of women composers for December will generate any more interest? The Musgrave operas have short entries in Grove, and L’amour de loin has enjoyed critical success but the others? Is anyone going to write about them?
I recommend that for January we return to a policy of featuring the most famous composers. My suggestion would be to do Rameau, Rossini or Offenbach. Any preferences or other ideas? Best - Kleinzach 16:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I have filled in Rameau for January (above) as it seems there are no objections. (Incidentally, Minkowski is giving a Rameau concert in Grenoble with the Musiciens du Louvre on December 15 but unfortunately I haven't been able to get tickets . . .) - Kleinzach 20:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Great. I was planning to have decent articles on all Rameau's works (plus a revised biography) by the end of 2007 anyway, so this will be a big help. Weber is a good choice too. Maybe Adam and the rest of the G&S crew will be particularly interested in overhauling the Oberon article, given it was set to an English libretto by James Robinson Planche and they seem to have a lot of info about 19th century British theatre. -- Folantin 09:50, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
That reminds me: If there's any opera written in English or with a known date of first performance in England within the period 1800-1900, please tell me: It is likely I can pick up some nice out-of-copyright images for it in the course of some other research. Vanished user talk 10:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I feel reasonably confident of my ability to get Smyth up to shape, but not the other composers. Anyone else working on them? Vanished user talk 22:36, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I propose we start a 'Special Projects' box to go above or below the 'Composer of the Month'.
This could list our larger, ongoing projects - for example the current revision of the List of important operas or developing good/featured articles - projects which last more than a month and are outside the scope of the monthly series.
These 'special' projects might be set up by any group of four or five members working together, and to the extent that they were adopted 'officially' by the Opera Project might serve to protect participants from outside harassment.
I welcome comments. Please don't hesitate to shoot the whole thing down if you don't think it will work - or you think a different approach is needed! - Kleinzach 13:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. We need a title. Opera Project project is a bit clunky. How about (Opera Project) 'Work in Progress'? - Kleinzach 21:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Could always go for cute, "WikiSubprojects Opera" "WikipProject Opera WikiWorkgroups" or, more sanely, "WikiProject Opera Subgroups." Vanished user talk 14:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
One thing that needs doing (IMO) is grading existing opera articles in some way so that we can see which ones need attention - missing character-listing, synopsis too brief or non-existent, no info about recordings, etc., etc. The Biography Project has a grading system that might do, maybe with modification: Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Assessment - I keep coming across their banner on composers' talk pages. -- GuillaumeTell 18:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Another thing is the navigational boxes: I've created Template:Mozart Operas and Template:Mozart Operas wide (which needs more work) and stuck them, respectively, into Il re pastore and Mitridate Rè di Ponto (something wrong with that title) as a start. Comments welcome on my talk page, but if we're going to do more of these we need some consensus, e.g. on where they go, and some division of labour. -- GuillaumeTell 18:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
An update: Kleinzach and I have reached a final form for Template:Mozart Operas, and I've added it to all of them (except King Thamos, whose Stub or Start I'm about to start composing). Both of us noticed while engaged in this operation that most Mozart operas could do with more work!
I'll add a para about the template, which we think would be a useful model, on the main Project Page. Comments welcome.-- GuillaumeTell 17:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Having been away, I hadn't noticed this or the Strauss navigational box. They look great! Much more useful than a generic opera infobox. Fireplace 22:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I have just been looking at the first paragragh of the Opera buffa and read:
. . . Leading composers include Mozart, Rossini, and Bizet but many others made a significant contribution to the genre and provided great influence for these composers; Mozart in particular. These include, Claudio Goffenberg, Heinz Goering and Lucio Allapenzio. The librettist Alfonso Madrigali was a close friend of Mozart and helped him to establish the opera buffa style to its full dramatic potential. He favoured librettos with somewhat lewd and erotic texts, and was highly accomplished at integrating his favourite themes into the operas with the utmost subtlety. For example, in Act two of Le nozze di Figaro, Mozart and Madrigali collaborated to ensure that the homosexual tendencies of the protagonist did not become obvious throughout. . . .
Is this a hoax? I couldn't find Alfonso Madrigali at all when I searched on Google. As we all know the librettist of Figaro was da Ponte. - Kleinzach 23:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
To cut down on project page clutter I have started a new sub page for User and project boxes.
This includes a new user box (with a picture of the Leipzig Opera). - Kleinzach 10:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This user is a participant in WikiProject Opera. |