This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | → | Archive 20 |
As part of our scheme to overhaul our core articles, maybe we ought to think about improving Italian opera and English opera. I thoroughly revised German opera and French opera at the end of last year and I think these pages need the same treatment. English opera is merely a stub and Italian opera is far from ideal. It's worth making clear that by "Italian" and "English" opera, we mean opera in those languages. So the Italian article will contain works by Handel and Mozart, for instance. The English opera article should probably be renamed English-language opera, since I think it's worth including all UK, American and Commonwealth anglophone opera under this heading (as well as Weber's Oberon) to make a substantial article. In the same way, German opera covers both German, Austrian and other composers who used the German language for their works. I'm prepared to help out with certain areas of English opera (I know very little about American and next to nothing about Australian or Canadian opera) and with Italian opera up to the death of Mozart. Anyone else want to collaborate (NB:it might be May before I have the time necessary to do some serious work here)? -- Folantin 10:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
As there have been no objections, I've removed the 'List of Important Operas' from 'Work in Progress'. Do you want Opera in English in its place? - Kleinzach 16:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
We've been making a lot of progress editing the genre categories - the French compound plurals are now corrected! - but some issues remain.
Category:Romantic operas now has five Wagner operas, two Weber and one each from Gounod, Glinka, Marschner, Rimsky-Korsakov and Sullivan. There is no article on Romantic Opera as such here, nor is there one in Grove (which ignores Romanticism as well). The Oxford dictionary likewise. The Rough Guide has a section called the 'Age of Romanticism' which lists composers from Cherubini/Beethoven to Weber/other Germans to Rossini/Bellini/Donizetti. (The next section is 'Verdi, Wagner and their contemporaries'.)
So, is Category:Romantic operas a genuine genre that can be made viable, or should it be deleted as lacking definition?
BTW The article Romantic music (to which the dreaded composer infoboxes link) states The era of Romantic music is defined as the period of European classical music that runs roughly from the early 1800s to the first decade of the 20th century, as well as music written according to the norms and styles of that period. The Romantic period was preceded by the classical period, and was followed by the modern period.
Category:Romantic composers also explains that Romantic composers are those individuals who wrote music in the Romantic era, between about 1815 and 1910. - Kleinzach 02:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made some comments on the opinions expressed at Romantic_operas. Although IMO German Romanticism is a movement rather than a genre, one solution might be to rename the category as 'German romantic operas' (small r OK?) and simply refer to the relevant section of Folantin's German opera article. -- Kleinzach 23:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Whilst looking for ways not to do my real work, I've had a look through my collection and have identified the following operas as ones for which I have libretti and for which no plot summary is given on Wiki. A number of these are also missing cast lists or even complete entries.
I'm happy to gradually work on some of them, but I don't know whetehr their are criteria on what opera deserves what detail. (I've picked ones for which I have full libretti as I've seen comments about the danger of plagiarism in articles especially by newbies.)
I haven't yet checked to see whether there are indications of cuts.
I also have a programme from the first production of Metcalf's Tornrak. So I could create an entry with first performance cast if wanted.
What would people like to work on?
Peter cohen 20:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest moving Il pastor fido to "Il pastor fido (opera)", and then creating an article regarding the original play by Guarini at "Il pastor fido" (not sure if admin assistance would be needed to do this in place of the redirect that would be left by the move of the opera article). The play by Guarini is notable in its own right as a literary source or inspiration for many later works of art. (I would be interested in starting an article on it).
Alternative suggestions would be to create the article on the Guarini play as "Il pastor fido (play)", with a dab page at "Il pastor fido"; or keep "Il pastor fido" as the article on the opera, with dab link to "Il pastor fido (play)".
Thoughts? Thanks, Lini 14:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I have been improving the article Beijing opera over the last couple of months, and recently put it up at FAC. I realize that Beijing opera isn't really opera in the Western sense. Nonetheless, if anyone wishes to improve the article, feel free, and feel free to comment on it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beijing opera.-- Danaman5 06:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
We have an ambiguous Category:Opera ballet containing two Rameau items, plus Puccini's Le Villi. We also have a viable article on Opéra-ballet. Should we change the name of the category to match the article and clarify its definition?
If so, can we use the plural form opéras-ballets? I realize that some people may disagree with this, but this is the form used by Grove and the French WP article on Opéra-ballet. -- Kleinzach 01:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Lots of progress with our French opera composers, so can we think about June?
Rossini is a obvious target, and some time ago we talked about re-furbishing Mozart as soon of his entries are quite poor. Other possibilities might be Joseph Haydn, Paul Hindemith, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, or Johann Strauss II or perhaps two or three neglected 18th century Italian composers like Cimarosa, Pergolesi, Gazzaniga, Galuppi, Salieri, Sarti etc. Any other possibilities? - Kleinzach 02:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I notice that the opera project is missing from such pages as Richard Wagner and Traviata. What are the rules for inserting it? DO we have to have re-edited them or something?
I assume that the masthead should be inserted into Wieland Wagner as two of us have been updating it.
The Wieland article is rated as stub-class by Wikiproject biography(arts and entertainment). Do we get them to re-rate it? And Wieland hasn't been rated by project Germany, but brother Wolfgang has. Do we mention the article to them? -- Peter cohen 17:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to Whjayg for a terrific effort on developing GuillaumeTell's work on these. However I am wondering about our policy on red and black names. For example Template:Vivaldi operas lists 21 operas compared to 9 in the The opera corpus, and 5 in Grove. I wonder if some of these articles will ever be written? -- Kleinzach 07:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone got any proof of the existence of any such opera by Georges Bizet? In the Viking Guide it's not even listed among his uncompleted fragments. Either it's a hoax or someone has misinterpreted a Portuguese word as being a title or it's a garbled version of "Namouna", the poem by Musset that Bizet used for Djamileh. Could someone look in Grove? (And if you want a laugh, look at the version of the Numa page before the last edit.) I put a note on the Bizet Talk page but no replies there yet. -- GuillaumeTell 16:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
This is the last of the opera genres to remain as a singular. We need to decide whether to make it a plural (Satirical operas) or delete it. At the moment the category has three Kurt Weill items, one Prokofiev and one Shostakovich. It's really a subject-matter genre rather than a stylistic one, but at least it's reasonably well defined and might even support an article. So keep or delete? -- Kleinzach 12:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I know this is a bit off topic but I need a favor from those who could help. I have been looking for “Giulio Cesare” opera DVD acted by Plácido Domingo as “Sesto”. I don’t know the performance year or the theater but one thing for sure is, Plácido Domingo at that time was very young. If anybody know where I could get the DVD, please let me know. I asked here because I just don’t what else to do and how to get it, sometimes I been thinking, the play was probably never been recorded. - Jay 03:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | → | Archive 20 |
As part of our scheme to overhaul our core articles, maybe we ought to think about improving Italian opera and English opera. I thoroughly revised German opera and French opera at the end of last year and I think these pages need the same treatment. English opera is merely a stub and Italian opera is far from ideal. It's worth making clear that by "Italian" and "English" opera, we mean opera in those languages. So the Italian article will contain works by Handel and Mozart, for instance. The English opera article should probably be renamed English-language opera, since I think it's worth including all UK, American and Commonwealth anglophone opera under this heading (as well as Weber's Oberon) to make a substantial article. In the same way, German opera covers both German, Austrian and other composers who used the German language for their works. I'm prepared to help out with certain areas of English opera (I know very little about American and next to nothing about Australian or Canadian opera) and with Italian opera up to the death of Mozart. Anyone else want to collaborate (NB:it might be May before I have the time necessary to do some serious work here)? -- Folantin 10:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
As there have been no objections, I've removed the 'List of Important Operas' from 'Work in Progress'. Do you want Opera in English in its place? - Kleinzach 16:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
We've been making a lot of progress editing the genre categories - the French compound plurals are now corrected! - but some issues remain.
Category:Romantic operas now has five Wagner operas, two Weber and one each from Gounod, Glinka, Marschner, Rimsky-Korsakov and Sullivan. There is no article on Romantic Opera as such here, nor is there one in Grove (which ignores Romanticism as well). The Oxford dictionary likewise. The Rough Guide has a section called the 'Age of Romanticism' which lists composers from Cherubini/Beethoven to Weber/other Germans to Rossini/Bellini/Donizetti. (The next section is 'Verdi, Wagner and their contemporaries'.)
So, is Category:Romantic operas a genuine genre that can be made viable, or should it be deleted as lacking definition?
BTW The article Romantic music (to which the dreaded composer infoboxes link) states The era of Romantic music is defined as the period of European classical music that runs roughly from the early 1800s to the first decade of the 20th century, as well as music written according to the norms and styles of that period. The Romantic period was preceded by the classical period, and was followed by the modern period.
Category:Romantic composers also explains that Romantic composers are those individuals who wrote music in the Romantic era, between about 1815 and 1910. - Kleinzach 02:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made some comments on the opinions expressed at Romantic_operas. Although IMO German Romanticism is a movement rather than a genre, one solution might be to rename the category as 'German romantic operas' (small r OK?) and simply refer to the relevant section of Folantin's German opera article. -- Kleinzach 23:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Whilst looking for ways not to do my real work, I've had a look through my collection and have identified the following operas as ones for which I have libretti and for which no plot summary is given on Wiki. A number of these are also missing cast lists or even complete entries.
I'm happy to gradually work on some of them, but I don't know whetehr their are criteria on what opera deserves what detail. (I've picked ones for which I have full libretti as I've seen comments about the danger of plagiarism in articles especially by newbies.)
I haven't yet checked to see whether there are indications of cuts.
I also have a programme from the first production of Metcalf's Tornrak. So I could create an entry with first performance cast if wanted.
What would people like to work on?
Peter cohen 20:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest moving Il pastor fido to "Il pastor fido (opera)", and then creating an article regarding the original play by Guarini at "Il pastor fido" (not sure if admin assistance would be needed to do this in place of the redirect that would be left by the move of the opera article). The play by Guarini is notable in its own right as a literary source or inspiration for many later works of art. (I would be interested in starting an article on it).
Alternative suggestions would be to create the article on the Guarini play as "Il pastor fido (play)", with a dab page at "Il pastor fido"; or keep "Il pastor fido" as the article on the opera, with dab link to "Il pastor fido (play)".
Thoughts? Thanks, Lini 14:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I have been improving the article Beijing opera over the last couple of months, and recently put it up at FAC. I realize that Beijing opera isn't really opera in the Western sense. Nonetheless, if anyone wishes to improve the article, feel free, and feel free to comment on it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beijing opera.-- Danaman5 06:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
We have an ambiguous Category:Opera ballet containing two Rameau items, plus Puccini's Le Villi. We also have a viable article on Opéra-ballet. Should we change the name of the category to match the article and clarify its definition?
If so, can we use the plural form opéras-ballets? I realize that some people may disagree with this, but this is the form used by Grove and the French WP article on Opéra-ballet. -- Kleinzach 01:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Lots of progress with our French opera composers, so can we think about June?
Rossini is a obvious target, and some time ago we talked about re-furbishing Mozart as soon of his entries are quite poor. Other possibilities might be Joseph Haydn, Paul Hindemith, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, or Johann Strauss II or perhaps two or three neglected 18th century Italian composers like Cimarosa, Pergolesi, Gazzaniga, Galuppi, Salieri, Sarti etc. Any other possibilities? - Kleinzach 02:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I notice that the opera project is missing from such pages as Richard Wagner and Traviata. What are the rules for inserting it? DO we have to have re-edited them or something?
I assume that the masthead should be inserted into Wieland Wagner as two of us have been updating it.
The Wieland article is rated as stub-class by Wikiproject biography(arts and entertainment). Do we get them to re-rate it? And Wieland hasn't been rated by project Germany, but brother Wolfgang has. Do we mention the article to them? -- Peter cohen 17:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to Whjayg for a terrific effort on developing GuillaumeTell's work on these. However I am wondering about our policy on red and black names. For example Template:Vivaldi operas lists 21 operas compared to 9 in the The opera corpus, and 5 in Grove. I wonder if some of these articles will ever be written? -- Kleinzach 07:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone got any proof of the existence of any such opera by Georges Bizet? In the Viking Guide it's not even listed among his uncompleted fragments. Either it's a hoax or someone has misinterpreted a Portuguese word as being a title or it's a garbled version of "Namouna", the poem by Musset that Bizet used for Djamileh. Could someone look in Grove? (And if you want a laugh, look at the version of the Numa page before the last edit.) I put a note on the Bizet Talk page but no replies there yet. -- GuillaumeTell 16:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
This is the last of the opera genres to remain as a singular. We need to decide whether to make it a plural (Satirical operas) or delete it. At the moment the category has three Kurt Weill items, one Prokofiev and one Shostakovich. It's really a subject-matter genre rather than a stylistic one, but at least it's reasonably well defined and might even support an article. So keep or delete? -- Kleinzach 12:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I know this is a bit off topic but I need a favor from those who could help. I have been looking for “Giulio Cesare” opera DVD acted by Plácido Domingo as “Sesto”. I don’t know the performance year or the theater but one thing for sure is, Plácido Domingo at that time was very young. If anybody know where I could get the DVD, please let me know. I asked here because I just don’t what else to do and how to get it, sometimes I been thinking, the play was probably never been recorded. - Jay 03:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)