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Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
How does everyone feel about splitting off the members section to identify active and non-active members - last I checked it was something like 180 project members, with three more since last weekend alone, but I see relatively few of them. RHB 21:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
How about posting this on their talk pages:
{{spoiler}}
{{spoiler-end}}
Suggested revision:
-- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 05:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Anyone want to pick a version from those on John Reaves Sandbox page linked above? I can deliver it whenever with AWB. RHB 20:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I've posted a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Harry Potter/Templates. I assumed it wasn't as well-watched as this page. John Reaves 19:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Are the actors from the film versions within the scope of the project? John Reaves
And are redirects rated as class=NA? Thanks, RHB 23:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I propse adding '''{{subst:Off topic warning}}''' to most or all of the HP talk pages, as discussion seems to happen too often. It might be easier to incorporate it into the main project template or have a bot do it. John Reaves 02:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's what the template looks like:
![]() | Remember that article talk pages are provided to coordinate the article's improvement, not for engaging in discussion for discussion's sake. Do not use them as a discussion forum. |
![]() | Remember that article talk pages are provided to coordinate the article's improvement, not for engaging in discussion for discussion's sake. Do not use them as a discussion forum. |
Feel free to work on it here John Reaves 09:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
True, I know Dumbledore is dead. To Sandpiper, these warnings aren't "extra special", they're standard messages for talk pages. There is an example of one of these warnings after being streamlined (somewhat) into the WPHP template here. Feel free to make your own version. John Reaves 05:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I understand the point about "at need" use and think we should leave the template as it is. John Reaves 02:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
We really need to get a featured article in the mix here. (There's a former project page about it, but it's been inactive and since LV isn't even a GA anymore, we'd need to reconsider.) Any suggestions as to what would be a good shot? There are two A-class articles now, one is a list (which can't get FA until the films are complete, due to the changing information), and the other one is just the good ol' Harry Potter. Any thoughts? -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 04:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
We know if they are or are not good articles. More so than some of the people who decide which articles are good (some of whom hold these articles in blatant contempt). Where is the point in reducing them to pointless opinion of "In this, I think Rowling shows her skill by making Ginny appear secretive" and destroying any meaningful flow, merely to dance attendant on people who will merely raise the bar higher to continue to exclude the articles. Especially since, for the next decade or so, there will not be enough critical opinion on the books to allow articles of the sort which they desire. Furthermore, as you have all said, until Book 7 is published, such a drive is monumentally pointless. So why on earth are getting so worked up about this issue at the moment? Michaelsanders 00:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm looking forward to the completion of the series, if for no other reason than the fact that speculation will no longer be a problem. After the series is finished, most of the HP articles can probably be bumped up to a decent quality (and more than a few GAs, I'd hope). -- Deathphoenix ʕ 21:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm much happier talking about a reference drive. The immediate question is do we have a good example anywhere of how we think this ought to be done? I'm not happy about ending up with the state of affairs where the text becomes overwhelmed by multiple references embedded in every sentence. If absolutely everything was referenced then a line like Harry had black hair (ref...), glasses (ref...), a lightning scar (ref...) and so on, could easily become ridiculous. So there is also the difficulty of the level of referencing required. I go round in circles on this, because while I absolutely do not want to see the text mashed up by inserted references, I also do not see much point of ending up with an article which has a list at the end of 500 refs from different book chapters. It looks bad, but more importantly from my point of view, doesn't help me much as a reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandpiper ( talk • contribs)
I think inline types of refs are a little cumbersome (as pointed out by Sandpiper below). Perhaps a footnote style referencing system would be better. As far as the GA and FA drive goes, I think it's a good idea. It will make the HP article more respectable in the eyes of those that view them as cesspools of fancruft and plot summaries. Maybe they'll even stop bitching as much when they stumble across one on a recent changes patrol. I have limited internet access, but I'll try and keep up with stuff on the project at least. John Reaves 23:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
The other big difficulty I have with referencing, aside from how to notate it, is how important it is. I do find it useful to have a collection of source quotes when analysing something, say all the important quotes regarding the HBP. I even made one once on a talk page. But the reason for doing so was to prove a point, that the article in question really did reflect the original text. Ok, so that is maybe what the referencing business is about, to prove we are fairly reporting what is actually written in the books, but this is not what an average reader is going to want looking at an article here. Cluttering an article with too much sourcing makes it harder to read. Sandpiper 12:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
If you could all head over to Talk:Harry_Potter_fandom#Discussing_whether_we_should_add_this:_--Please_do_not_add_a_site_here_without_first_discussing_it_on_Talk:Harry_Potter_fandom_first._Thank_you.--, read the section thoroughly, and vote in the second straw poll, that would be appreciated. The user involved in the dispute asked me on my talk page what we should do (as it's been a week since any activity there, and the votes are "tied" 1-1), and so I figured the people who know the page best should participate in this poll.
While we're talking about Harry Potter fandom, I think we need to come up with a method of referencing the notability of the fan sites, because it gets to a point where you really don't know if they're notable or not (see the section below the aforementioned one -- the user makes it sound notable but I haven't a clue what those things (Sulake) are). -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 18:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay, sorry for assuming. I'm working with an unreliable and infrequent access to internet, so I figured I'd wager. I don't see any thing wrong with a comment. I'll check out the talk page when I have a chance. I'd be up for a collaboration (though discussion should go under a new section ) John Reaves 06:02, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Going off of TonyJoe's comments -- how about this? If a fan site is mentioned in the prose of the article (in which case its notability would be established with a cite and by the surrounding text), it should be linked in an External links section, as per WP:EL. However, if the fan site is not mentioned in the prose, it should not by any means be in an external links section. I'll bring this to the fandom talk page too. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 20:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
With the publication of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows imminent, it is a pleasant surprise to see WikiProject Harry Potter recalled to life, albeit haphazardly. I would however hope that within the next week we can make its return more formal so as to allow the project to move foward more cohesively in the New Year.
To do this, I'd like to make/refocus on some proposals.
1. We should strengthen our membership by following through on the proposal of RHB, Fbv65edel and John Reaves, of informing inactive members of the revival via the Dumbledore Member Box, as well as actively recruit new members via the Community Bulletin board and the talk pages of other promienent HP articles.
2. Make the project more purposeful by firmly establishing our priorities via a "scope" and "Articles of Importance" section, as well as making our To-Do list more current and definitively choosing an "Article to Improve."
3. Patroling HP articles for vandalism as Deathly Hallows' release approaches.
4. Promoting "Project Togetherness" via a Project Award and a new Userbox. TonyJoe 19:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
All right then, I'd say go out and send the "Dumbledore Member Box" as there have been no objections to it, probably using AWB. I'll have more time to think about all this when I return on the 1st. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 21:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Should we do a template for characters, like many video game ( Template:Resident Evil series characters) or television ( Template:Star Trek regulars) ones? igordebraga ≠ 13:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone proficient enough in templates to change NA to Non-Article in the talk page template? John Reaves 08:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
List of Harry Potter films cast members is currently a featured list candidate. I'd advise you to assess the article neutrally and head over to the FLC nomination page, if you so wish, and discuss. This article is especially important to me as I've worked it from a cluttered table, out of AfD, to what it looks like now. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 21:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I've requested on the participants page that Admins add '''(Admin)''' next to their name so we know who can help with deletions, vandals, et cetera. John Reaves 22:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I've created a new user warning template warning against speculation and OR. It's {{ speculationwarning}} or {{ sw}}. Using a parameter (|), you can cite the page name the user edited. John Reaves 02:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC) Example: {{sw|Harry Potter}} Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, some of your edits to Harry Potter, are speculative and/or constitute original research and cannot be included. Please cite your edits with a reliable source, one that is verifiable. Thank you.
of blatant vandalism, and doesn't quite apply here (the stop sign is a Wikipedia-wide icon used for a "final warning"). If this is used at all, it should use a progression of warnings with stronger language in each iteration, such as with the "test" track ({{ test1}}, {{ test2}}, {{ test3}}, {{ test4}}). I'm not sure if blocking is really necessary (perhaps it can for blatant or obvious bad-faith cases), but the first welcoming template is appropriate for new users who are simply unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies, and the progressively stronger wording is also appropriate depending on the situation. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 18:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Three new articles are up for deletion. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Harry Potter/AfD. John Reaves 06:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure, whatever. Don't you think it'd be a good idea to watch the AfDs them self to keep up with their progress? John Reaves 00:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anybody think a class=list option would be a useful addition to the WPHP template? John Reaves
Hello -
I am an avid wikipidian, and as such I figured there are likely not many better places on the web to ask this most basic and fundamental question about the Harry Potter books/films.
I am a fan of the Harry Potter movies, though I have not read the books. Recently, while watching the most recent film, I asked myself "what is the PURPOSE behind all of this magic learning?" What is the point of having this school, and everything that goes with it, if none of the magicians can execute their skills in the "real world"? If someone was to answer my question with "to learn how to use magic", or something along these lines, it would not quite be to the point...
Are they being groomed in order to mount some really cool "Magician's Army"? Is there some devine plan that serves as the primary reason for training people to use magic? When they graduate, what will they have....A DEGREE IN MAGIC? For what purpose? To teach others to perform magic? If that is the reason, then what is the point in teaching it?
Its almost the same thing as if, for example, people attended school to in order to be dentists, and yet were never able to work on teeth.
Any assistance in helpng me to understand this most fundamental element of the "Harry Potter Universe" would be nice, because I am baffled.
-- Mrlopez2681 12:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
MrLopez: In a nutshell (or several of them), Rowling presents the wizarding world of "Harry Potter" as a magical society within the normal everyday "Muggle" (non-magical) society. Wizards and witches are portrayed (largely) as benign, friendly folk who are naturally blessed with special talents, and who are often fascinated by the plight of the Muggles, who substitute scientific pursuits to achieve progress and conveniences, in lieu of using magical skills. It is a juxtaposition of the "normal" (or at least Muggle) point of view: through Rowling, we can see ourselves in an amusing light through the eyes of our magical brethren. For example, Mr. Weasley is portrayed as absolutely fascinated by mundane Muggle household appliances and conveniences, just as Muggles would be fascinated by magic wands and potions. The wzards and witches are free to perform their magic at will, provided they cause no harm, and provided it is hidden from the Muggles. Rowling also produces a novel historical reference to witchcraft and wizardry, through discussions between characters, who point out that "no real witches or wizards were actually harmed by being burned at the stake", since some simple spells or other magical actions would counteract the fires, but that "some witches loved to put on a great show for the Muggles". Historically, humanity has not been kind to "different folk", and history is replete with examples of tribes and nations going to war to exterminate each other because they are "different". As a parallel - there is emerging evidence and reason to believe that different human species of the past competed with each other for resources, and sought to destroy each other when resources were scarce (eg: the European Homo sapiens Cro-Magnon may have killed off the Asian Neanderthals, and perhaps also inter-bred with the last few - putting a new spin on the "make love, not war" principle). Anyway the modern wizarding world is highly regulated, as members are basically forbidden to perform magic in front of the Muggles, except in extreme emergencies. There is a liason between the magical world and the world governments. The wizards try to avoid interracting too much with the Muggles, and the Muggles try to ignore that the wizards exist. It is sort of an opposite to the symbiotic relationship. The worlds are carefully segregated philosophically, to avoid interactions, but part of the "fun" lies in areas where the two worlds must occasionally intersect. Wizards and witches are "trained" in magic in order to preserve their heritage and to improve their chances of survival in a historically hostile world. Most have no ambition beyond living very long but quiet lives, anonymously among the Muggles, as Pilgrims in a foreign land. A few on occasion get overly ambitious and power hungry (eg: Voldemort and the Death Eaters) but it is rather unclear exactly what their ultimate goals are: World domination? Destruction of Muggle society? Elimination of all but the "dark wizards"? If so, then what? The "good" witches and wizards seem very content to co-exist with the Muggles, perhaps a bit smug that they have special skills, but mostly wanting to be left alone to get on with their lives and have a little fun on the journey. The agenda of the "dark wizards" is not as clear. In summary - Rowling presents the magical wizards and witches as normal everyday folks, blessed with certain special skills that the Muggles would find baffling if not threatening, and thus keeps the two strains of humanity separated for their own good, to get on with enjoying their lives in the ways each sees as fitting, without harrassing each other. The Wizards are just as baffled with the Muggles as the Muggles are baffled with the Wizards. The main difference is - the Wizards, who are in a tiny minority, know full well the Muggles are out there, and mostly try to stay out of their way: magic is a sort of necessity for survival for the "chosen few". The Muggles on the other hand are officially ignorant of the existance of the Wizards, and go blundering on without the advantage of magic. -- T-dot ( Talk | contribs) 20:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
And, conversely, she uses the idea of magic to show that the world will not be improved simply by making tasks easier: the wizarding world is hopelessly corrupt, it has a strong history of prejudice that it has not easily left behind, most wizards have no concept of ethics, and there are as many nasty wizards (proportionally) as there are nasty muggles; magic can not be used to deal with the bad guys, because 'they have magic too'. She shows that the 'advantage' of magic is not quite that: it can cause harm, does not prevent typical problems, and leads to damaging situations. That a person can be magic and not be any more or less morally reprehensible than a person without. She did apparently say she wanted to warp the traditional fantasy to show that magic leads to problems (despite numerous examples - Edith Nesbit, for one - of that before her). Michaelsanders 21:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's give a cheer, our first featured article is here! Well, actually, it's a list… but just as good! Check out the recently promoted List of Harry Potter films cast members. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 22:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Should we count this [2] a verifiable source? The date only turns up on a search, it's not on the main page. I've yet to find any other sources to verify this, including Rowling's website and Bloomsbury. John Reaves 03:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
John Reaves wants to categorise characters whose individual articles exist only as redirects e.g. Caractacus Burke, Amy Benson, and a few others. The only redirect articles I can find that are categorised are about five, all of which have been categorised by him. Is there any need or point to this (Reaves justifies it by saying it allows the creation of a list of Harry Potter characters; however, List of Harry Potter characters serves that purpose more coherently). Michaelsanders 12:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, an inappropriate use of non-user talk space by you again? I guess I'll do it too. You're quite full of yourself aren't you? Never wrong, won't back down, blow anything out of proportion to get you way or be entertained. 3RR and uncivilty seems to be a way of life for you, so you hardly have a place in warning me. As far as "denigrated your work" goes, I don't recall doing that, any criticism was warranted. The RAB article was complete OR, and poorly written at that, and needed to be deleted. As I've stated before, and you've yet to be able to comprehend, I don't care enough to defend this. I've stated my opinion that they hurt nothing and and allow navigation through a series of articles that are related. Not every article has a link to list of characters in Harry Potter, but every character article could very well be placed in the category. But I'm fine with leaving it out, especially if means less interaction with a curmudgeon like you. John Reaves 13:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll continue this in user space so you don't get as much of the attention you crave. John Reaves 14:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Next time try and keep up. Maybe if you didn't post off-topic comments, you'd be able to. John Reaves 15:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Replied on user talk page John Reaves 16:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
How does everyone feel about splitting off the members section to identify active and non-active members - last I checked it was something like 180 project members, with three more since last weekend alone, but I see relatively few of them. RHB 21:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
How about posting this on their talk pages:
{{spoiler}}
{{spoiler-end}}
Suggested revision:
-- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 05:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Anyone want to pick a version from those on John Reaves Sandbox page linked above? I can deliver it whenever with AWB. RHB 20:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I've posted a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Harry Potter/Templates. I assumed it wasn't as well-watched as this page. John Reaves 19:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Are the actors from the film versions within the scope of the project? John Reaves
And are redirects rated as class=NA? Thanks, RHB 23:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I propse adding '''{{subst:Off topic warning}}''' to most or all of the HP talk pages, as discussion seems to happen too often. It might be easier to incorporate it into the main project template or have a bot do it. John Reaves 02:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's what the template looks like:
![]() | Remember that article talk pages are provided to coordinate the article's improvement, not for engaging in discussion for discussion's sake. Do not use them as a discussion forum. |
![]() | Remember that article talk pages are provided to coordinate the article's improvement, not for engaging in discussion for discussion's sake. Do not use them as a discussion forum. |
Feel free to work on it here John Reaves 09:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
True, I know Dumbledore is dead. To Sandpiper, these warnings aren't "extra special", they're standard messages for talk pages. There is an example of one of these warnings after being streamlined (somewhat) into the WPHP template here. Feel free to make your own version. John Reaves 05:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I understand the point about "at need" use and think we should leave the template as it is. John Reaves 02:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
We really need to get a featured article in the mix here. (There's a former project page about it, but it's been inactive and since LV isn't even a GA anymore, we'd need to reconsider.) Any suggestions as to what would be a good shot? There are two A-class articles now, one is a list (which can't get FA until the films are complete, due to the changing information), and the other one is just the good ol' Harry Potter. Any thoughts? -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 04:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
We know if they are or are not good articles. More so than some of the people who decide which articles are good (some of whom hold these articles in blatant contempt). Where is the point in reducing them to pointless opinion of "In this, I think Rowling shows her skill by making Ginny appear secretive" and destroying any meaningful flow, merely to dance attendant on people who will merely raise the bar higher to continue to exclude the articles. Especially since, for the next decade or so, there will not be enough critical opinion on the books to allow articles of the sort which they desire. Furthermore, as you have all said, until Book 7 is published, such a drive is monumentally pointless. So why on earth are getting so worked up about this issue at the moment? Michaelsanders 00:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm looking forward to the completion of the series, if for no other reason than the fact that speculation will no longer be a problem. After the series is finished, most of the HP articles can probably be bumped up to a decent quality (and more than a few GAs, I'd hope). -- Deathphoenix ʕ 21:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm much happier talking about a reference drive. The immediate question is do we have a good example anywhere of how we think this ought to be done? I'm not happy about ending up with the state of affairs where the text becomes overwhelmed by multiple references embedded in every sentence. If absolutely everything was referenced then a line like Harry had black hair (ref...), glasses (ref...), a lightning scar (ref...) and so on, could easily become ridiculous. So there is also the difficulty of the level of referencing required. I go round in circles on this, because while I absolutely do not want to see the text mashed up by inserted references, I also do not see much point of ending up with an article which has a list at the end of 500 refs from different book chapters. It looks bad, but more importantly from my point of view, doesn't help me much as a reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandpiper ( talk • contribs)
I think inline types of refs are a little cumbersome (as pointed out by Sandpiper below). Perhaps a footnote style referencing system would be better. As far as the GA and FA drive goes, I think it's a good idea. It will make the HP article more respectable in the eyes of those that view them as cesspools of fancruft and plot summaries. Maybe they'll even stop bitching as much when they stumble across one on a recent changes patrol. I have limited internet access, but I'll try and keep up with stuff on the project at least. John Reaves 23:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
The other big difficulty I have with referencing, aside from how to notate it, is how important it is. I do find it useful to have a collection of source quotes when analysing something, say all the important quotes regarding the HBP. I even made one once on a talk page. But the reason for doing so was to prove a point, that the article in question really did reflect the original text. Ok, so that is maybe what the referencing business is about, to prove we are fairly reporting what is actually written in the books, but this is not what an average reader is going to want looking at an article here. Cluttering an article with too much sourcing makes it harder to read. Sandpiper 12:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
If you could all head over to Talk:Harry_Potter_fandom#Discussing_whether_we_should_add_this:_--Please_do_not_add_a_site_here_without_first_discussing_it_on_Talk:Harry_Potter_fandom_first._Thank_you.--, read the section thoroughly, and vote in the second straw poll, that would be appreciated. The user involved in the dispute asked me on my talk page what we should do (as it's been a week since any activity there, and the votes are "tied" 1-1), and so I figured the people who know the page best should participate in this poll.
While we're talking about Harry Potter fandom, I think we need to come up with a method of referencing the notability of the fan sites, because it gets to a point where you really don't know if they're notable or not (see the section below the aforementioned one -- the user makes it sound notable but I haven't a clue what those things (Sulake) are). -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 18:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay, sorry for assuming. I'm working with an unreliable and infrequent access to internet, so I figured I'd wager. I don't see any thing wrong with a comment. I'll check out the talk page when I have a chance. I'd be up for a collaboration (though discussion should go under a new section ) John Reaves 06:02, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Going off of TonyJoe's comments -- how about this? If a fan site is mentioned in the prose of the article (in which case its notability would be established with a cite and by the surrounding text), it should be linked in an External links section, as per WP:EL. However, if the fan site is not mentioned in the prose, it should not by any means be in an external links section. I'll bring this to the fandom talk page too. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 20:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
With the publication of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows imminent, it is a pleasant surprise to see WikiProject Harry Potter recalled to life, albeit haphazardly. I would however hope that within the next week we can make its return more formal so as to allow the project to move foward more cohesively in the New Year.
To do this, I'd like to make/refocus on some proposals.
1. We should strengthen our membership by following through on the proposal of RHB, Fbv65edel and John Reaves, of informing inactive members of the revival via the Dumbledore Member Box, as well as actively recruit new members via the Community Bulletin board and the talk pages of other promienent HP articles.
2. Make the project more purposeful by firmly establishing our priorities via a "scope" and "Articles of Importance" section, as well as making our To-Do list more current and definitively choosing an "Article to Improve."
3. Patroling HP articles for vandalism as Deathly Hallows' release approaches.
4. Promoting "Project Togetherness" via a Project Award and a new Userbox. TonyJoe 19:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
All right then, I'd say go out and send the "Dumbledore Member Box" as there have been no objections to it, probably using AWB. I'll have more time to think about all this when I return on the 1st. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 21:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Should we do a template for characters, like many video game ( Template:Resident Evil series characters) or television ( Template:Star Trek regulars) ones? igordebraga ≠ 13:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone proficient enough in templates to change NA to Non-Article in the talk page template? John Reaves 08:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
List of Harry Potter films cast members is currently a featured list candidate. I'd advise you to assess the article neutrally and head over to the FLC nomination page, if you so wish, and discuss. This article is especially important to me as I've worked it from a cluttered table, out of AfD, to what it looks like now. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 21:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I've requested on the participants page that Admins add '''(Admin)''' next to their name so we know who can help with deletions, vandals, et cetera. John Reaves 22:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I've created a new user warning template warning against speculation and OR. It's {{ speculationwarning}} or {{ sw}}. Using a parameter (|), you can cite the page name the user edited. John Reaves 02:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC) Example: {{sw|Harry Potter}} Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, some of your edits to Harry Potter, are speculative and/or constitute original research and cannot be included. Please cite your edits with a reliable source, one that is verifiable. Thank you.
of blatant vandalism, and doesn't quite apply here (the stop sign is a Wikipedia-wide icon used for a "final warning"). If this is used at all, it should use a progression of warnings with stronger language in each iteration, such as with the "test" track ({{ test1}}, {{ test2}}, {{ test3}}, {{ test4}}). I'm not sure if blocking is really necessary (perhaps it can for blatant or obvious bad-faith cases), but the first welcoming template is appropriate for new users who are simply unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies, and the progressively stronger wording is also appropriate depending on the situation. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 18:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Three new articles are up for deletion. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Harry Potter/AfD. John Reaves 06:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure, whatever. Don't you think it'd be a good idea to watch the AfDs them self to keep up with their progress? John Reaves 00:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anybody think a class=list option would be a useful addition to the WPHP template? John Reaves
Hello -
I am an avid wikipidian, and as such I figured there are likely not many better places on the web to ask this most basic and fundamental question about the Harry Potter books/films.
I am a fan of the Harry Potter movies, though I have not read the books. Recently, while watching the most recent film, I asked myself "what is the PURPOSE behind all of this magic learning?" What is the point of having this school, and everything that goes with it, if none of the magicians can execute their skills in the "real world"? If someone was to answer my question with "to learn how to use magic", or something along these lines, it would not quite be to the point...
Are they being groomed in order to mount some really cool "Magician's Army"? Is there some devine plan that serves as the primary reason for training people to use magic? When they graduate, what will they have....A DEGREE IN MAGIC? For what purpose? To teach others to perform magic? If that is the reason, then what is the point in teaching it?
Its almost the same thing as if, for example, people attended school to in order to be dentists, and yet were never able to work on teeth.
Any assistance in helpng me to understand this most fundamental element of the "Harry Potter Universe" would be nice, because I am baffled.
-- Mrlopez2681 12:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
MrLopez: In a nutshell (or several of them), Rowling presents the wizarding world of "Harry Potter" as a magical society within the normal everyday "Muggle" (non-magical) society. Wizards and witches are portrayed (largely) as benign, friendly folk who are naturally blessed with special talents, and who are often fascinated by the plight of the Muggles, who substitute scientific pursuits to achieve progress and conveniences, in lieu of using magical skills. It is a juxtaposition of the "normal" (or at least Muggle) point of view: through Rowling, we can see ourselves in an amusing light through the eyes of our magical brethren. For example, Mr. Weasley is portrayed as absolutely fascinated by mundane Muggle household appliances and conveniences, just as Muggles would be fascinated by magic wands and potions. The wzards and witches are free to perform their magic at will, provided they cause no harm, and provided it is hidden from the Muggles. Rowling also produces a novel historical reference to witchcraft and wizardry, through discussions between characters, who point out that "no real witches or wizards were actually harmed by being burned at the stake", since some simple spells or other magical actions would counteract the fires, but that "some witches loved to put on a great show for the Muggles". Historically, humanity has not been kind to "different folk", and history is replete with examples of tribes and nations going to war to exterminate each other because they are "different". As a parallel - there is emerging evidence and reason to believe that different human species of the past competed with each other for resources, and sought to destroy each other when resources were scarce (eg: the European Homo sapiens Cro-Magnon may have killed off the Asian Neanderthals, and perhaps also inter-bred with the last few - putting a new spin on the "make love, not war" principle). Anyway the modern wizarding world is highly regulated, as members are basically forbidden to perform magic in front of the Muggles, except in extreme emergencies. There is a liason between the magical world and the world governments. The wizards try to avoid interracting too much with the Muggles, and the Muggles try to ignore that the wizards exist. It is sort of an opposite to the symbiotic relationship. The worlds are carefully segregated philosophically, to avoid interactions, but part of the "fun" lies in areas where the two worlds must occasionally intersect. Wizards and witches are "trained" in magic in order to preserve their heritage and to improve their chances of survival in a historically hostile world. Most have no ambition beyond living very long but quiet lives, anonymously among the Muggles, as Pilgrims in a foreign land. A few on occasion get overly ambitious and power hungry (eg: Voldemort and the Death Eaters) but it is rather unclear exactly what their ultimate goals are: World domination? Destruction of Muggle society? Elimination of all but the "dark wizards"? If so, then what? The "good" witches and wizards seem very content to co-exist with the Muggles, perhaps a bit smug that they have special skills, but mostly wanting to be left alone to get on with their lives and have a little fun on the journey. The agenda of the "dark wizards" is not as clear. In summary - Rowling presents the magical wizards and witches as normal everyday folks, blessed with certain special skills that the Muggles would find baffling if not threatening, and thus keeps the two strains of humanity separated for their own good, to get on with enjoying their lives in the ways each sees as fitting, without harrassing each other. The Wizards are just as baffled with the Muggles as the Muggles are baffled with the Wizards. The main difference is - the Wizards, who are in a tiny minority, know full well the Muggles are out there, and mostly try to stay out of their way: magic is a sort of necessity for survival for the "chosen few". The Muggles on the other hand are officially ignorant of the existance of the Wizards, and go blundering on without the advantage of magic. -- T-dot ( Talk | contribs) 20:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
And, conversely, she uses the idea of magic to show that the world will not be improved simply by making tasks easier: the wizarding world is hopelessly corrupt, it has a strong history of prejudice that it has not easily left behind, most wizards have no concept of ethics, and there are as many nasty wizards (proportionally) as there are nasty muggles; magic can not be used to deal with the bad guys, because 'they have magic too'. She shows that the 'advantage' of magic is not quite that: it can cause harm, does not prevent typical problems, and leads to damaging situations. That a person can be magic and not be any more or less morally reprehensible than a person without. She did apparently say she wanted to warp the traditional fantasy to show that magic leads to problems (despite numerous examples - Edith Nesbit, for one - of that before her). Michaelsanders 21:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's give a cheer, our first featured article is here! Well, actually, it's a list… but just as good! Check out the recently promoted List of Harry Potter films cast members. -- Fbv 65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 22:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Should we count this [2] a verifiable source? The date only turns up on a search, it's not on the main page. I've yet to find any other sources to verify this, including Rowling's website and Bloomsbury. John Reaves 03:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
John Reaves wants to categorise characters whose individual articles exist only as redirects e.g. Caractacus Burke, Amy Benson, and a few others. The only redirect articles I can find that are categorised are about five, all of which have been categorised by him. Is there any need or point to this (Reaves justifies it by saying it allows the creation of a list of Harry Potter characters; however, List of Harry Potter characters serves that purpose more coherently). Michaelsanders 12:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, an inappropriate use of non-user talk space by you again? I guess I'll do it too. You're quite full of yourself aren't you? Never wrong, won't back down, blow anything out of proportion to get you way or be entertained. 3RR and uncivilty seems to be a way of life for you, so you hardly have a place in warning me. As far as "denigrated your work" goes, I don't recall doing that, any criticism was warranted. The RAB article was complete OR, and poorly written at that, and needed to be deleted. As I've stated before, and you've yet to be able to comprehend, I don't care enough to defend this. I've stated my opinion that they hurt nothing and and allow navigation through a series of articles that are related. Not every article has a link to list of characters in Harry Potter, but every character article could very well be placed in the category. But I'm fine with leaving it out, especially if means less interaction with a curmudgeon like you. John Reaves 13:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll continue this in user space so you don't get as much of the attention you crave. John Reaves 14:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Next time try and keep up. Maybe if you didn't post off-topic comments, you'd be able to. John Reaves 15:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Replied on user talk page John Reaves 16:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)