New Zealand Project‑class | |||||||
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Ready.eddy ( talk) 05:23, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I thought people might be interested in what Wendy Shaw, the secretary of the New Zealand Geographic Board, had to say to us recently about the process of standardising official names. We pointed out some inconsistencies like "Waitakere/Waitākere".
"Your observations are correct; there are inconsistencies between long-time ‘recorded and official Māori place names’ that have yet to be processed for consistency with more recent official Māori names that now have macrons as part of their correct orthography. This might have resulted from:
The NZGB has a strategic goal to standardise the orthography of the majority of Māori place names over the next five years, and it is working on this in two ways: Region by Region and focussing on commonly used and significant Māori place names. Both of these processes use the fast track process in the NZGB Act to approve unofficial recorded names as official (the criteria is that no objections are likely and no other alternative name is known for the feature/place). Where the fast track test cannot be met, the standardised orthography with macrons can still be applied in the Gazetteer but the Māori place names remain unofficial. We expect that at the end of this project there will remain many recorded unofficial Māori place names that will need to be considered case by case by the NZGB. Some of these may fall out of the process because we do not have a confirmed story or meaning for the Māori word and therefore cannot determine its correct orthography.
For any Māori place names that your volunteers identify as needing standardisation/consistency, please let us know and we’ll consider them as part of our processing. In the meantime you could use the standardised orthography for associated unofficial recorded Māori place names, if you are certain they are the same word with the same meaning."
The NZGB have also offered to take part in a virtual meeting with this task force team to talk about their work and see how they can help. — Giantflightlessbirds ( talk) 21:31, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Although this isn't part of the mission of this task force, plant and animal names are increasingly being written with macrons in NZ English. Moving these articles can be controversial, so it's important to put forward a request, the way User:Stuartyeates has with Katipo. Be sure to supply multiple recent reliable sources that use the macron.
— Giantflightlessbirds ( talk) 01:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
I thought it could be a good idea to talk about progress. According to our task spreadsheet, I've just moved the last geographic place that needed a macron. So that's 67 articles moved. Just for completeness, there are a further 63 articles that have yet to be written, and 6 articles where the name is not official (i.e. those should not be moved). Schwede 66 03:11, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Unsurprisingly, there's been a bit of macron vandalism. This has also happened on Wikidata. We have a volunteer who has come up with a nifty way for monitoring such vandalism so that we can respond to it. For this to work, we need Wikidata item numbers (the Qxxxx items). In our spreadsheet, the sheet for "Populated places" has a complete list of items. The second sheet, called "Other places", is very incomplete for items. I also suspect that many of those features won't have a Wikidata entry at all. Would be good to get the features defined in Wikidata before our mate gets a bot going on this. Schwede 66 04:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Some of the places on the list are mountains or other geographic features in Antarctica which NZGB has officially named with macrons, for example Mount Hawea (Mount Hāwea – 56601) and Mount Pukaki (Mount Pūkākī – 56603), both of which were named after RNZN frigates which didn't have macrons in their names. The enwiki articles have usually been created from PD content from another Antarctic gazetteer such as the USGS. Given the non-territorial status of Antarctica and thinking maybe New Zealand English does not necessarily apply, I am hesitant to move these, but am thinking of adding a statement saying what NZGB considers the official name. Any thoughts or suggestions? -- Canley ( talk) 03:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
A bunch of geographic names in the Christchurch area were determined by NZGB ( 2020-ln2410, 2020-ln2411) and came into effect yesterday (8 July 2020), some have macrons so I am adding them to the workplan spreadsheet.
There is one populated place:
The rest are other features:
-- Canley ( talk) 05:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
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-- Canley ( talk) 04:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Our friend Rsfinlayson, long since blocked for sockpuppetry, uses a random IP address for continued macron removal. Latest activity is at Lake Papaitonga. Has anybody got any good ideas what we can do about that? On a related note, the Australasian swamphen article needs a copy-edit to clarify that pūkeko isn't just some random te reo spelling. Schwede 66 01:12, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
We've had a discussion on Facebook about audio files as a pronounciation help. I've reached out to Reo Māori and wrote the following:
Kia ora koutou,
I'm writing to you with my Wikipedia hat on. Us Kiwi Wikipedians are very mindful of how te reo Māori is embedded into New Zealand English. To be fair, it's been a bit of a struggle to have that accepted by the international Wikipedia community and there was also a massive push back by some New Zealand editors. Wikipedia is full of rules and regulations, but we've managed to have macrons accepted as being part of New Zealand English. That was a massive discussion (hop over to the talk page of Naming conventions (New Zealand) if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) and got quite a bit of media attention.
So now that proper spelling (including the use of macrons) is sorted, the question arose how we could assist readers of Wikipedia with learning how to pronounce te reo Māori words properly. Very few New Zealand Wikipedia pages have a sound included; Oamaru is one of those.
The question is – would you be interested in working with us towards a volunteer programme where people record audio files that can then be used on Wikipedia? One of the quirks of Wikipedia is that such files need to have a free licence that allows reuse by anyone for any purpose (including commercial use). This means that we could only use existing sound files if they already have such a free licence. It might be easiest to devise a programme where we tell people how to record and upload their files so that they can then be used.
What do you think?
I look forward to their response. Schwede 66 19:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for value. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the [ page. Thank you. Poketama ( talk) 16:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Here's a table of "interesting" macron vandalism. The vandalism has the following commonalities:
It appears that IP masking is being used (sorry, I couldn't find a WP article that explains what that is). I've come across this particular type of vandalism a lot and unfortunately, there does not appear to be a way of searching WP's article histories for edit summaries (they don't get indexed). If anybody has good ideas what to do about it, please say so. Please add to the table below if you come across further instances. Schwede 66 04:43, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
IP address | autonomous system number (ASN) webhost | location | ISP |
---|---|---|---|
24.9.118.252 | not assigned | fake IP | fake IP |
115.64.32.38 | APNIC | Sydney, Australia | TPG Internet Pty Ltd |
50.208.42.49 | ARIN | Cupertino, California, USA | Comcast Cable Communications LLC |
98.45.190.84 | ARIN | Mount Laurel, New Jersey, USA | Comcast Cable Communications LLC |
By way of a general comment to the New Zealand project, not directed at anyone in particular - there is something rather sad in taking a step back and looking at the VAST amount of time spent by so many people on relatively unimportant work on New Zealand topics. There is a huge amount that can be done to create and improve articles with the addition of quality sourced and well written information, but that often appears to take second place to macronising words and creating lists of numbers and so on. We all doodle at times and play around with punctuation errors and so forth but surely there is more constructive work to be done? I know there are plenty of educated people in this project who have specialist knowledge in certain fields. This article here struck me as such an example of hobby-horse editing that is adding relatively little to improving the NZ information in this encyclopedia. Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 10:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
New Zealand Project‑class | |||||||
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Ready.eddy ( talk) 05:23, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I thought people might be interested in what Wendy Shaw, the secretary of the New Zealand Geographic Board, had to say to us recently about the process of standardising official names. We pointed out some inconsistencies like "Waitakere/Waitākere".
"Your observations are correct; there are inconsistencies between long-time ‘recorded and official Māori place names’ that have yet to be processed for consistency with more recent official Māori names that now have macrons as part of their correct orthography. This might have resulted from:
The NZGB has a strategic goal to standardise the orthography of the majority of Māori place names over the next five years, and it is working on this in two ways: Region by Region and focussing on commonly used and significant Māori place names. Both of these processes use the fast track process in the NZGB Act to approve unofficial recorded names as official (the criteria is that no objections are likely and no other alternative name is known for the feature/place). Where the fast track test cannot be met, the standardised orthography with macrons can still be applied in the Gazetteer but the Māori place names remain unofficial. We expect that at the end of this project there will remain many recorded unofficial Māori place names that will need to be considered case by case by the NZGB. Some of these may fall out of the process because we do not have a confirmed story or meaning for the Māori word and therefore cannot determine its correct orthography.
For any Māori place names that your volunteers identify as needing standardisation/consistency, please let us know and we’ll consider them as part of our processing. In the meantime you could use the standardised orthography for associated unofficial recorded Māori place names, if you are certain they are the same word with the same meaning."
The NZGB have also offered to take part in a virtual meeting with this task force team to talk about their work and see how they can help. — Giantflightlessbirds ( talk) 21:31, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Although this isn't part of the mission of this task force, plant and animal names are increasingly being written with macrons in NZ English. Moving these articles can be controversial, so it's important to put forward a request, the way User:Stuartyeates has with Katipo. Be sure to supply multiple recent reliable sources that use the macron.
— Giantflightlessbirds ( talk) 01:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
I thought it could be a good idea to talk about progress. According to our task spreadsheet, I've just moved the last geographic place that needed a macron. So that's 67 articles moved. Just for completeness, there are a further 63 articles that have yet to be written, and 6 articles where the name is not official (i.e. those should not be moved). Schwede 66 03:11, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Unsurprisingly, there's been a bit of macron vandalism. This has also happened on Wikidata. We have a volunteer who has come up with a nifty way for monitoring such vandalism so that we can respond to it. For this to work, we need Wikidata item numbers (the Qxxxx items). In our spreadsheet, the sheet for "Populated places" has a complete list of items. The second sheet, called "Other places", is very incomplete for items. I also suspect that many of those features won't have a Wikidata entry at all. Would be good to get the features defined in Wikidata before our mate gets a bot going on this. Schwede 66 04:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Some of the places on the list are mountains or other geographic features in Antarctica which NZGB has officially named with macrons, for example Mount Hawea (Mount Hāwea – 56601) and Mount Pukaki (Mount Pūkākī – 56603), both of which were named after RNZN frigates which didn't have macrons in their names. The enwiki articles have usually been created from PD content from another Antarctic gazetteer such as the USGS. Given the non-territorial status of Antarctica and thinking maybe New Zealand English does not necessarily apply, I am hesitant to move these, but am thinking of adding a statement saying what NZGB considers the official name. Any thoughts or suggestions? -- Canley ( talk) 03:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
A bunch of geographic names in the Christchurch area were determined by NZGB ( 2020-ln2410, 2020-ln2411) and came into effect yesterday (8 July 2020), some have macrons so I am adding them to the workplan spreadsheet.
There is one populated place:
The rest are other features:
-- Canley ( talk) 05:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
|
-- Canley ( talk) 04:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Our friend Rsfinlayson, long since blocked for sockpuppetry, uses a random IP address for continued macron removal. Latest activity is at Lake Papaitonga. Has anybody got any good ideas what we can do about that? On a related note, the Australasian swamphen article needs a copy-edit to clarify that pūkeko isn't just some random te reo spelling. Schwede 66 01:12, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
We've had a discussion on Facebook about audio files as a pronounciation help. I've reached out to Reo Māori and wrote the following:
Kia ora koutou,
I'm writing to you with my Wikipedia hat on. Us Kiwi Wikipedians are very mindful of how te reo Māori is embedded into New Zealand English. To be fair, it's been a bit of a struggle to have that accepted by the international Wikipedia community and there was also a massive push back by some New Zealand editors. Wikipedia is full of rules and regulations, but we've managed to have macrons accepted as being part of New Zealand English. That was a massive discussion (hop over to the talk page of Naming conventions (New Zealand) if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) and got quite a bit of media attention.
So now that proper spelling (including the use of macrons) is sorted, the question arose how we could assist readers of Wikipedia with learning how to pronounce te reo Māori words properly. Very few New Zealand Wikipedia pages have a sound included; Oamaru is one of those.
The question is – would you be interested in working with us towards a volunteer programme where people record audio files that can then be used on Wikipedia? One of the quirks of Wikipedia is that such files need to have a free licence that allows reuse by anyone for any purpose (including commercial use). This means that we could only use existing sound files if they already have such a free licence. It might be easiest to devise a programme where we tell people how to record and upload their files so that they can then be used.
What do you think?
I look forward to their response. Schwede 66 19:56, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for value. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the [ page. Thank you. Poketama ( talk) 16:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Here's a table of "interesting" macron vandalism. The vandalism has the following commonalities:
It appears that IP masking is being used (sorry, I couldn't find a WP article that explains what that is). I've come across this particular type of vandalism a lot and unfortunately, there does not appear to be a way of searching WP's article histories for edit summaries (they don't get indexed). If anybody has good ideas what to do about it, please say so. Please add to the table below if you come across further instances. Schwede 66 04:43, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
IP address | autonomous system number (ASN) webhost | location | ISP |
---|---|---|---|
24.9.118.252 | not assigned | fake IP | fake IP |
115.64.32.38 | APNIC | Sydney, Australia | TPG Internet Pty Ltd |
50.208.42.49 | ARIN | Cupertino, California, USA | Comcast Cable Communications LLC |
98.45.190.84 | ARIN | Mount Laurel, New Jersey, USA | Comcast Cable Communications LLC |
By way of a general comment to the New Zealand project, not directed at anyone in particular - there is something rather sad in taking a step back and looking at the VAST amount of time spent by so many people on relatively unimportant work on New Zealand topics. There is a huge amount that can be done to create and improve articles with the addition of quality sourced and well written information, but that often appears to take second place to macronising words and creating lists of numbers and so on. We all doodle at times and play around with punctuation errors and so forth but surely there is more constructive work to be done? I know there are plenty of educated people in this project who have specialist knowledge in certain fields. This article here struck me as such an example of hobby-horse editing that is adding relatively little to improving the NZ information in this encyclopedia. Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 10:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)