![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Since reporting in September of stubs completed for all current Elkman NRHP infobox database entries for Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Erie, Genesee, Livingston, Niagara, and Wyoming counties in Western New York, I've now completed additional stubs for Broome County, Cayuga County, Chemung County, Monroe County, Ontario County, Schuyler County, Seneca County, Steuben County, Tioga County, Tompkins County, Wayne County, and Yates County counties. Again, there are some recent NRHP additions without stubs because they're not yet included in the Elkman infobox tool. I also found a great collection of photos on Flickr by dougtone - Towns, Waterfalls, etc. that includes a lot of NRHP sites in New York.-- Pubdog ( talk) 19:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please remind me why the hell we have individual lists for almost every single county/borough in the United States? National Register of Historic Places listings in Alaska has been divided into 28 lists, one for each borough with NRHP listings. I was bold and merged ten of these very short lists into National Register of Historic Places listings in the Alaska Panhandle, leaving redirects. The Alaska Panhandle is a region of Alaska that is the most visited by tourists. This was reverted by User:Nyttend without a convincing explanation. Tourist region or not, I find it idiotic to have pages as short as National Register of Historic Places listings in Yakutat, Alaska or any of these other pages. While a full statewide list may be too long, most county lists are WAY too short. Having so many subpages not only clutters the system it inconveniences readers by spreading the information too thin across many pages and brings them to nearly useless stub-lists. If this is followed nationwide, then I want to change it nationwide. While it may be simpler to just have alphabetical county lists, I find it downright dumb to have so many that are so short. Across the country we should divide long state lists by region, not by individual counties. The listings are still grouped by county, but are on a single page by region, which are easier to navigate and more convenient to read. This regional list has only 104 listings, in no way long enough to require a split. I am happy to take up the task of merging at least the states with the worst offenders of ridiculously short pages. We had the same problem at National Register of Historic Places listings in Indiana, where most counties have fewer than twenty listings yet for some reason those with only three were still split off. On the Talk page we discussed and agreed on merging them back by region, but it was never done. And, in fact, National Register of Historic Places listings in Puerto Rico is already well divided by tourist regions. Reywas92 Talk 03:51, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) Hmm, am not sure. The two maps don't match up unambiguously.
"Far North" is perhaps 41:
(41)
"Interior" is perhaps:
(77)
"Southwest" is perhaps:
(73)
"Southcentral" is perhaps:
(114)
"Southeast" is perhaps:
(104)
Is that a good partition in terms of numbers? It looks okay to me. Note "Panhandle" would not be the name, the name if following the O E D partition would be "Southeast" for that section. doncram ( talk) 22:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
There are new and old requests for NRHP article assessments at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Assessment#Requests for assessment. I'd be willing to assess a few if others would too. :) doncram ( talk) 21:26, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
The Benjamin F. Jones Cottage is in danger of being demolished. The new article really could use some expansion.-- Blargh29 ( talk) 05:55, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Is there a category for endangered historic buildings? It may be useful to create one if none already exists. In addition to the National Trust list of 11 Most Endangered Historic Places many state and city preservation organization publish annual lists highlighting properties threatened with demolition or substantial alteration. Eli.pousson ( talk) 02:50, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Today's new listings bring this one, to be added to this list here:
L. Ron Hubbard House
5501 N. 44th St
Phoenix, AZ
refnum 09000953
Oh. My. God. This could be the first WP:NRHP article to be covered by an ArbCom case.
Like the Welcome to Fabulous Las Vegas Sign, this is one of those listings that make you feel old, if you're over a certain age. NPS hasn't announced the Featured Listing of the week yet, but can you imagine the flak they'd get if it's this one? I can imagine what the nomination document would say. It would be, uh, interesting.
Aside from that, what's up with all these cryptically named "address restricted" Utah listings? Are they UFO crash sites or something (and I'll know I'm really old when "Alleged Alien Spacecraft Crash Site" in Roswell, New Mexico, gets added to the Register). Daniel Case ( talk) 20:31, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
(I know, we already have this one, but didn't that have some sort of historic value apart from his residence there?) Daniel Case ( talk) 20:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on an article about the William B. Dunlap Mansion, which is a contributing property to the Bridgewater Historic District that was listed in 1996, sixteen years after the house itself was listed individually. Is there a way to configure {{ Infobox nrhp}} to say that it's both listed by itself and a CP to an HD? If not, would it be possible to change the infobox so that it had an option for "property individually listed on the Register"? I think it would be best to set it so that if we left the "nrhp_type" line blank, it would act as if we'd selected this option (therefore, the thousands of articles on individually-listed properties wouldn't be affected by this change), even if we had an "nrhp_type2" line that was different — for example, if the infobox were as I'm suggesting, I'd leave the "type" line blank and put "cp" in the "type2" line. Nyttend ( talk) 02:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I recently created the list National Register of Historic Places listings in Buffalo, New York from National Register of Historic Places listings in Erie County, New York. It reminded me that I've long wanted to ask policy about the lists generated from the Elkman tool that contain duplicates. In the Buffalo case there are three: Buffalo State Asylum for the Insane and Buffalo State Hospital; D. D. Martin House Complex and Darwin D. Martin House; and St. Paul's Cathedral (Buffalo) and St. Paul's Episcopal Cathedral. The upshot is that although Buffalo has 81 entries, there are 78 unique structures. Each duplicate shares a single article and I think the reason there are duplicates is that they were listed with different names as NRHP and then as NHL. Should these be merged on the list?-- Pubdog ( talk) 02:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
For historic districts, one has usually superseded the other or others. I leave it in the list, perhaps with a more apropos picture if I have it, make the link point to the current HD article, and note that the original district has been superseded by the current one (see National Register of Historic Places listings in Rensselaer County, New York for an extreme example, where five districts were absorbed into the Central Troy Historic District). Daniel Case ( talk) 05:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Stephen Storm House. I know where I'm getting the idea from, but it really sounds like it should be a superhero's secret identity. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:43, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Academic Hall in Missouri burned more than 100 years ago. The only remnant of the building are the columns which are among the most recognizable structures in the state and the symbol for the University of Missouri. The columns are on the Francis Quadrangle which is on the National Register. Should Academic Hall be categorized as National Register of Historic Places. The stucture is not formally listed independently. Thanks Americasroof ( talk) 17:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Pennsylvania is unwieldy long (~130 K). I hesitate to split the table without guidance. Could some divide into several tables? It could still be expanded because we have only begun to post pictures on this long list. KudzuVine ( talk) 19:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello: I will shortly upload images for all remaining NRHP sites on National Register of Historic Places listings in Buffalo, New York, with one exception Laurel and Michigan Avenues Row because it has been demolished (what I did on my Christmas vacation ;->). I have one potential private source for an image, but if that does not pan out the only other is available at the OPRHP site. I'd really like to call victory on this list being fully illustrated. How can I do that if the structure is no longer extant and the only readily available image has the copyright potential issue? I don't think a photo of the vacant lot would be particularly illustrative.-- Pubdog ( talk) 02:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm likely in the minority on this, but I think that having a picture of the vacant lot on the illustrated list should be preferred over having a picture of the demolished structure (although an image of the structure in the article is still a nice addition). I say that because I imagine one major use of the list is as a guide to visiting NRHP properties. In that case, it's useful to see what the location actually looks like now, as opposed to what it would have looked like had the demolished structure still been there. Andrew Jameson ( talk) 14:50, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana is currently at WP:FLC at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana/archive2. Many nominations have been failed due to lack of reviews, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Reywas92 Talk 02:34, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
General Services Administration find a building search links to public domain articles on several hundred federal buildings (including many NRHP sites) under the auspices of the General Services Administration, some of which are described in thorough architectural and historical detail. bd2412 T 05:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
United States Post Office and Courthouse (New Bern, North Carolina, 1935) is up. Cheers! bd2412 T 00:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello NRHP folks. I wanted to call to your attention a problem with the type of lists being employed in places such as National Register of Historic Places listings in Yavapai County, Arizona. I am uncertain if it is due to the number of images being displayed, or something to do with the code being employed to build the tables, but this list and at least two others I have tried to browse ( here and here) have caused long load times (in excess of 15 seconds) and unusually high CPU load on my work computer when attempting to load them, and has crashed the browser once. I haven't tried to duplicate the issue at home yet, but I can say that the work computers, while not being state of the art, are not low-performance machines; they are running IE7 under WinXP on a dual core Pentium 3GHz processor/2GB ram machine. I am concerned about the accessibility of these lists to users on slower connections or with older computers, but you may want to consider taking a closer look at these lists and how to optimize them so as to make them accessible to users who may be running underpowered machines. Cheers, Sher eth 21:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
This looks like a breakthrough to me. Could you pursue a method of removing the little blue globes "WikiMiniAtlas"? Maybe if you could give us a short list (e.g. 10 entries) to show folks how it would work. Let us know what we can do, but I'm not a coder. Smallbones ( talk) 22:25, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello all: Just thought I'd pass along progress made over the recent holidays on three lists: Buffalo, New York, Anne Arundel County, Maryland, and Baltimore County, Maryland. I had a great time taking and adding about 100 pics. Best wishes for 2010.-- Pubdog ( talk) 01:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Bridge between East Manchester and Newberry Townships in York County, Pennsylvania was part of the Multiple Property Submission " Pennsylvania Department of Transportation Owned Highway Bridges" listed on the NRHP back in 1988. A clerical error was made at the time though, and it has been listed as pending in the NRHP database since. I noticed it was listed in the Pennsylvania ARCH system online and at the suggestion of Nyttend wrote the NRHP asking about it. Just got an email today saying that the pending listing was an error and they would be updating the database. I added the image on Commons and added it to List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Pennsylvania, but did not add it to the York County list. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:04, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Just wanted to let everyone know — because we use {{ NRHPGoogleMapFootnote}} on so many pages, I've fully protected it as a frequently-used template. If any of you object to this move, tell me and I'll unprotect it. Nyttend ( talk) 23:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
In the process of beginning to overhaul Taconic State Parkway, I decided to check Category:Roads on the National Register of Historic Places to see if there were any longer than the Taconic, whose entire 104.12 miles is covered by the listing.
It seems that, indeed, the Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park is almost a mile longer. Are there any longer actively used roads whose continuous historic length is still extant listed? I think I can still say that the Taconic is the longest divided highway, and the longest state road, on the NRHP. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't think so, although one day if the Appalachian Trail is listed (I'd consider it a good candidate for NHL status, really), it would easily leave anything else in the (ahem) dirt since it's over 2,000 miles long. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
The NRHP nom for the Taconic (see footnotes) gives a mileage of 105.3, which is possible if you include the onramps to the Thruway beyond the toll barrier at the north end, in the area under NYS Thruway Authority jurisdiction (NYSDOT's responsibilities end at the toll gate), as indeed the last pages of the nom itself seem to do. The 104.12 mileage will stay in the infobox as it's the official version from NYSDOT, which maintains the road. But should we say the listing includes the extra mileage, which would thus make it slightly longer than the Skyline Drive? Daniel Case ( talk) 04:59, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Since reporting in September of stubs completed for all current Elkman NRHP infobox database entries for Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Erie, Genesee, Livingston, Niagara, and Wyoming counties in Western New York, I've now completed additional stubs for Broome County, Cayuga County, Chemung County, Monroe County, Ontario County, Schuyler County, Seneca County, Steuben County, Tioga County, Tompkins County, Wayne County, and Yates County counties. Again, there are some recent NRHP additions without stubs because they're not yet included in the Elkman infobox tool. I also found a great collection of photos on Flickr by dougtone - Towns, Waterfalls, etc. that includes a lot of NRHP sites in New York.-- Pubdog ( talk) 19:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please remind me why the hell we have individual lists for almost every single county/borough in the United States? National Register of Historic Places listings in Alaska has been divided into 28 lists, one for each borough with NRHP listings. I was bold and merged ten of these very short lists into National Register of Historic Places listings in the Alaska Panhandle, leaving redirects. The Alaska Panhandle is a region of Alaska that is the most visited by tourists. This was reverted by User:Nyttend without a convincing explanation. Tourist region or not, I find it idiotic to have pages as short as National Register of Historic Places listings in Yakutat, Alaska or any of these other pages. While a full statewide list may be too long, most county lists are WAY too short. Having so many subpages not only clutters the system it inconveniences readers by spreading the information too thin across many pages and brings them to nearly useless stub-lists. If this is followed nationwide, then I want to change it nationwide. While it may be simpler to just have alphabetical county lists, I find it downright dumb to have so many that are so short. Across the country we should divide long state lists by region, not by individual counties. The listings are still grouped by county, but are on a single page by region, which are easier to navigate and more convenient to read. This regional list has only 104 listings, in no way long enough to require a split. I am happy to take up the task of merging at least the states with the worst offenders of ridiculously short pages. We had the same problem at National Register of Historic Places listings in Indiana, where most counties have fewer than twenty listings yet for some reason those with only three were still split off. On the Talk page we discussed and agreed on merging them back by region, but it was never done. And, in fact, National Register of Historic Places listings in Puerto Rico is already well divided by tourist regions. Reywas92 Talk 03:51, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) Hmm, am not sure. The two maps don't match up unambiguously.
"Far North" is perhaps 41:
(41)
"Interior" is perhaps:
(77)
"Southwest" is perhaps:
(73)
"Southcentral" is perhaps:
(114)
"Southeast" is perhaps:
(104)
Is that a good partition in terms of numbers? It looks okay to me. Note "Panhandle" would not be the name, the name if following the O E D partition would be "Southeast" for that section. doncram ( talk) 22:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
There are new and old requests for NRHP article assessments at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Assessment#Requests for assessment. I'd be willing to assess a few if others would too. :) doncram ( talk) 21:26, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
The Benjamin F. Jones Cottage is in danger of being demolished. The new article really could use some expansion.-- Blargh29 ( talk) 05:55, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Is there a category for endangered historic buildings? It may be useful to create one if none already exists. In addition to the National Trust list of 11 Most Endangered Historic Places many state and city preservation organization publish annual lists highlighting properties threatened with demolition or substantial alteration. Eli.pousson ( talk) 02:50, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Today's new listings bring this one, to be added to this list here:
L. Ron Hubbard House
5501 N. 44th St
Phoenix, AZ
refnum 09000953
Oh. My. God. This could be the first WP:NRHP article to be covered by an ArbCom case.
Like the Welcome to Fabulous Las Vegas Sign, this is one of those listings that make you feel old, if you're over a certain age. NPS hasn't announced the Featured Listing of the week yet, but can you imagine the flak they'd get if it's this one? I can imagine what the nomination document would say. It would be, uh, interesting.
Aside from that, what's up with all these cryptically named "address restricted" Utah listings? Are they UFO crash sites or something (and I'll know I'm really old when "Alleged Alien Spacecraft Crash Site" in Roswell, New Mexico, gets added to the Register). Daniel Case ( talk) 20:31, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
(I know, we already have this one, but didn't that have some sort of historic value apart from his residence there?) Daniel Case ( talk) 20:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on an article about the William B. Dunlap Mansion, which is a contributing property to the Bridgewater Historic District that was listed in 1996, sixteen years after the house itself was listed individually. Is there a way to configure {{ Infobox nrhp}} to say that it's both listed by itself and a CP to an HD? If not, would it be possible to change the infobox so that it had an option for "property individually listed on the Register"? I think it would be best to set it so that if we left the "nrhp_type" line blank, it would act as if we'd selected this option (therefore, the thousands of articles on individually-listed properties wouldn't be affected by this change), even if we had an "nrhp_type2" line that was different — for example, if the infobox were as I'm suggesting, I'd leave the "type" line blank and put "cp" in the "type2" line. Nyttend ( talk) 02:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I recently created the list National Register of Historic Places listings in Buffalo, New York from National Register of Historic Places listings in Erie County, New York. It reminded me that I've long wanted to ask policy about the lists generated from the Elkman tool that contain duplicates. In the Buffalo case there are three: Buffalo State Asylum for the Insane and Buffalo State Hospital; D. D. Martin House Complex and Darwin D. Martin House; and St. Paul's Cathedral (Buffalo) and St. Paul's Episcopal Cathedral. The upshot is that although Buffalo has 81 entries, there are 78 unique structures. Each duplicate shares a single article and I think the reason there are duplicates is that they were listed with different names as NRHP and then as NHL. Should these be merged on the list?-- Pubdog ( talk) 02:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
For historic districts, one has usually superseded the other or others. I leave it in the list, perhaps with a more apropos picture if I have it, make the link point to the current HD article, and note that the original district has been superseded by the current one (see National Register of Historic Places listings in Rensselaer County, New York for an extreme example, where five districts were absorbed into the Central Troy Historic District). Daniel Case ( talk) 05:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Stephen Storm House. I know where I'm getting the idea from, but it really sounds like it should be a superhero's secret identity. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:43, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Academic Hall in Missouri burned more than 100 years ago. The only remnant of the building are the columns which are among the most recognizable structures in the state and the symbol for the University of Missouri. The columns are on the Francis Quadrangle which is on the National Register. Should Academic Hall be categorized as National Register of Historic Places. The stucture is not formally listed independently. Thanks Americasroof ( talk) 17:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Pennsylvania is unwieldy long (~130 K). I hesitate to split the table without guidance. Could some divide into several tables? It could still be expanded because we have only begun to post pictures on this long list. KudzuVine ( talk) 19:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello: I will shortly upload images for all remaining NRHP sites on National Register of Historic Places listings in Buffalo, New York, with one exception Laurel and Michigan Avenues Row because it has been demolished (what I did on my Christmas vacation ;->). I have one potential private source for an image, but if that does not pan out the only other is available at the OPRHP site. I'd really like to call victory on this list being fully illustrated. How can I do that if the structure is no longer extant and the only readily available image has the copyright potential issue? I don't think a photo of the vacant lot would be particularly illustrative.-- Pubdog ( talk) 02:32, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm likely in the minority on this, but I think that having a picture of the vacant lot on the illustrated list should be preferred over having a picture of the demolished structure (although an image of the structure in the article is still a nice addition). I say that because I imagine one major use of the list is as a guide to visiting NRHP properties. In that case, it's useful to see what the location actually looks like now, as opposed to what it would have looked like had the demolished structure still been there. Andrew Jameson ( talk) 14:50, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana is currently at WP:FLC at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana/archive2. Many nominations have been failed due to lack of reviews, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Reywas92 Talk 02:34, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
General Services Administration find a building search links to public domain articles on several hundred federal buildings (including many NRHP sites) under the auspices of the General Services Administration, some of which are described in thorough architectural and historical detail. bd2412 T 05:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
United States Post Office and Courthouse (New Bern, North Carolina, 1935) is up. Cheers! bd2412 T 00:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello NRHP folks. I wanted to call to your attention a problem with the type of lists being employed in places such as National Register of Historic Places listings in Yavapai County, Arizona. I am uncertain if it is due to the number of images being displayed, or something to do with the code being employed to build the tables, but this list and at least two others I have tried to browse ( here and here) have caused long load times (in excess of 15 seconds) and unusually high CPU load on my work computer when attempting to load them, and has crashed the browser once. I haven't tried to duplicate the issue at home yet, but I can say that the work computers, while not being state of the art, are not low-performance machines; they are running IE7 under WinXP on a dual core Pentium 3GHz processor/2GB ram machine. I am concerned about the accessibility of these lists to users on slower connections or with older computers, but you may want to consider taking a closer look at these lists and how to optimize them so as to make them accessible to users who may be running underpowered machines. Cheers, Sher eth 21:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
This looks like a breakthrough to me. Could you pursue a method of removing the little blue globes "WikiMiniAtlas"? Maybe if you could give us a short list (e.g. 10 entries) to show folks how it would work. Let us know what we can do, but I'm not a coder. Smallbones ( talk) 22:25, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello all: Just thought I'd pass along progress made over the recent holidays on three lists: Buffalo, New York, Anne Arundel County, Maryland, and Baltimore County, Maryland. I had a great time taking and adding about 100 pics. Best wishes for 2010.-- Pubdog ( talk) 01:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Bridge between East Manchester and Newberry Townships in York County, Pennsylvania was part of the Multiple Property Submission " Pennsylvania Department of Transportation Owned Highway Bridges" listed on the NRHP back in 1988. A clerical error was made at the time though, and it has been listed as pending in the NRHP database since. I noticed it was listed in the Pennsylvania ARCH system online and at the suggestion of Nyttend wrote the NRHP asking about it. Just got an email today saying that the pending listing was an error and they would be updating the database. I added the image on Commons and added it to List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Pennsylvania, but did not add it to the York County list. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:04, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Just wanted to let everyone know — because we use {{ NRHPGoogleMapFootnote}} on so many pages, I've fully protected it as a frequently-used template. If any of you object to this move, tell me and I'll unprotect it. Nyttend ( talk) 23:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
In the process of beginning to overhaul Taconic State Parkway, I decided to check Category:Roads on the National Register of Historic Places to see if there were any longer than the Taconic, whose entire 104.12 miles is covered by the listing.
It seems that, indeed, the Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park is almost a mile longer. Are there any longer actively used roads whose continuous historic length is still extant listed? I think I can still say that the Taconic is the longest divided highway, and the longest state road, on the NRHP. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't think so, although one day if the Appalachian Trail is listed (I'd consider it a good candidate for NHL status, really), it would easily leave anything else in the (ahem) dirt since it's over 2,000 miles long. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
The NRHP nom for the Taconic (see footnotes) gives a mileage of 105.3, which is possible if you include the onramps to the Thruway beyond the toll barrier at the north end, in the area under NYS Thruway Authority jurisdiction (NYSDOT's responsibilities end at the toll gate), as indeed the last pages of the nom itself seem to do. The 104.12 mileage will stay in the infobox as it's the official version from NYSDOT, which maintains the road. But should we say the listing includes the extra mileage, which would thus make it slightly longer than the Skyline Drive? Daniel Case ( talk) 04:59, 9 January 2010 (UTC)