![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
If you have come from other parts of Wikipedia, please see our other subpages:
as your question may be answered or may currently be in discussion there. Thanks!
-The WikiProject Musical Theatre Team
-- omtay38 02:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
When an infobox is added (namely the {{ Infobox Musical}} infobox) what production should be used to fill in the information if the musical has had more than one production? Should the Infobox be tweaked to exclude information that would require such a choice? How So?
What should be done when an article contains information on both the film and the stage version of a musical and/or an article about both musicals has the film infobox?
What stub should be applied to what musical articles that are stub worthy (many seem to be in use currently):
others? Should articles be standardized to remove one stub type?
How should other stage art forms sometimes meshed with Musicals (operas, operettas, dance productions, musical revues) be handled?
Another question -- choreographers?
Should theaters themselves be under our umbrella?
Not all the Musicals in Wikipedia are on the list of musicals. Below, please list locations of larger lists of musicals and/or their related composers, writers, performers etc.
I feel that because this is WikiProject Musicals and not WikiProject Broadway, Off Broadway, Opera, or West end, we should simply stick to the Category:Musicals. There are WikiProjects for several of the others that can categorize their own things but I think our focus should be on improving articles, not sorting them. Thus creating an all-encompassing Musicals category is to our best benefit. -- omtay38 04:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
It seems that the thrust of the project is on all of musical theatre and not just musicals themselves. Should this be reflected by a name change for the project? — Music Maker 07:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
It's a well-documented fact that the Americans and the Brits use different spellings. Should we be using "theater" or "theatre"?
Personally, I think that when referring to the art, we should use "theatre". When we're referring to a building, we should use the convention germane to the location of the building. — Music Maker 07:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Have made some specific inclusions and exclusions in the Scope section based on previous discussions (eg theatre buildings are out) and a personal feel for how the project is evolving (eg operattas are out, film musicals and revues such as the Zigfield Follies or Side by Side by Sondheim are in). Happy to revert of course. -- Malfourmed ( user talk) 20:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Are we including the award institutions pertaining to musical theater as well (most notably the Tony Awards) in our scope? Drenched 17:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the discussion of sections of articles, you might want to take a look at WikiProject Opera's guidelines just to see how they have them set up. I don't think we should identically copy what they have, but it's as similar a concept that we might find. — Music Maker 03:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I've been doing some looking around, replacing instances of {{
Broadway-project}}, and I found that
WikiProject New York Theatre is "active". It's been one editor since January, and he's only made one edit (anywhere) in the last two months. I left him a message on his talk page when I was doing that, and he hasn't responded. It looked like he was focusing on Broadway, but had been adding some musical pages. I replaced {{
Broadway-project}} with {{
Musicals-project}} on anything that was for a musical (as it was redirecting there, anyway), and left the others -- mainly articles for the specific theaters.
Wikipedia:WikiProject Broadway now redirects to
Wikipedia:WikiProject New York Theatre, while
Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicals redirects to WikiProject Musical Theatre.
Apparently, when the three projects (WikiProject Broadway, WikiProject New York Theatre, and WikiProject Off-Broadway) were created, the same template, {{
Broadway-project}}, was used for all three. As were all the other templates.
The {{
Musicals-category}} template had found its way on to several non-category, non-talk page pages. Unless I'm mistaken, right now it is only on
Category:Musicals and WikiProject New York Theatre and Off-Broadway. {{
Broadway-category}} was redirecting to Musicals-category, but I've created a template there directing people to WikiProject New York Theatre. The only category it is found on is
Category:Broadway theatres.
If anyone feels that these were not the right moves can certainly revert them or change them.
I've been toying with moving the templates to something using the phrase "Musical Theatre": {{
Project Musical Theatre}} or the like. I would just as soon continue using "Musicals-project" as it is simply more concise. (And as "Musicals-project" is on 500+ pages....)
—
Music
Maker 08:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
While re-categorizing, I came across this little gem: A Christmas Held Captive. This was a show that ran for two months in Beverly Hills twenty years ago and yielded no results on Google. The lyricist was Robert J. Sherman (also Afd'ed), who was 16 at the time, and son of the Sherman mini-dynasty. It seems blatantly autobio. If you'd like to join the AfD discussion, here and here. — Music Maker 00:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm relatively sure we all consider this to be a talk page, and as such it should probably be moved into the Wikipedia talk namespace. I think the main page associated with this talk page would be a good place to list all of the current proposals. I didn't want to just move this without letting everyone know, first. (Furthermore, I'm not even sure how one would do that....) — Music Maker 00:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I was looking over some items removed from Category:Musicals
It seems that aritcles such as The Mystery of Edwin Drood and The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby were removed from the category because it linked to a page which summarized the musical version in a secondary paragraph.
Other articles like Lord of the Dance (musical) were removed. This is a musical dance review.. I don't see why it was removed?
Les Parapluies de Cherbourg is a famous film musical. Why wasn't it moved to Musical films?
-- Kunzite 06:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I just discovered this project. In the last 24 hours I've added some templates: Andrew Lloyd Webber, Lerner and Loewe, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Gilbert and Sullivan and Stephen Sondheim, allowing easy access to all of the works of these great composers.
I just thought I'd note this here, if anyone has questions or projects relating to these composers or their musicals (I suppose Gilbert & Sullivan belong in the Opera Project), feel free to ask me! Daydream believer2 07:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Meanwhile, I'm going to have a go at adding a few Infoboxes. Daydream believer2 07:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
These lists exist:
Should there be a list of musical theatre actors? I think I would vote Yes on that. Ssilvers 00:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Ssilvers 22:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I nominated Category:Musicals based on movies to Category:Musicals based on films. Please express your support or opposition at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 7#Category:Musicals based on movies to Category:Musicals based on films. -- Usgnus 17:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking of proposing Category:Source material for musicals or something along those lines for such things as Leroux's The Phantom of the Opera or Doctorow's Ragtime or even The Wedding Singer. Any thoughts? — Music Maker 21:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we should put this category tag on all the major writing teams' pages. I'll go put it on Lerner and Loewe now: Category:Surname pairs -- Ssilvers 18:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I was tagging various musical theater actor/actress pages with the {Musicals-project} box. But there seemed to be some grey area to me, and I just wanted to clarify the scope of our project: which actors are included in this project? Are we tagging/editing the pages of every single person who has ever appeared in a Broadway musical or any musical theater production ever? (Deborah Cox has been on Broadway once...are we tagging her page too? Same for Melanie Brown, Joey McIntire, Stephen Lynch etc etc.) Or are we only tagging people who are primarily or very significantly musical theater actors? Drenched 06:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
A worthy question, and one I was about to pose myself. I mean, while there are some obviously Broadway actors, like Patti LuPone, you also have some who are in several fields like Bebe Neuwirth, or those like Jerry Orbach who are old hands at Broadway but well known in other fields. Well, I think perhaps it should be a matter of judgement. If someone performed in a Broadway musical once in their life, perhaps that shouldn't count, just like a TV actor with one bit-part in a film isn't a film actor really. But I also don't think we should have too stringent minimum criteria. I just don't think it should be limited to people who are primarily on Broadway - many like Hugh Jackman and Kelly Bishop have made themselves happy in other projects, even while contributing to Broadway. Daydream believer2 10:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Would it be useful to have a sub-category of Category:Musicals called "Musicals by composer"? If yes, would the further sub-categories be named on the model "Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals", "Musicals by Andrew Lloyd Webber", "Musicals with music by Andrew Lloyd Webber", or something else? -- Paul A 02:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC) (Edited to add: I notice there's already, for instance, Category:Rodgers and Hammerstein Musicals, for what it's worth. -- Paul A 02:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC))
I noticed that Category:Musicals is one of the few artistic categories not currently subcategorized by nationality. For example, Plays and Books and Albums all have nationality related subcategories.
I took the liberty of adding Category:Musicals by nationality as a subcategory of Category:Musicals. I also included an explanation that, in this context, nationality refers to the nationality of its authors/composers, as opposed to where the musical toured or the story is set. Within this appear subcategories by nationality, such as Category:American musicals and Category:British musicals.
Currently, I'm leaving untouched musicals with authors of multiple nationalities (eg an American composer and a British composer working together) since I wasn't 100% sure if they should appear under multiple nationalities or not.
Anyway, since nationality subcategories are already pretty standard for many other large categories of works, I figured this was a pretty non-controversial idea. But obviously if anybody has a question or issue on how I set this up, please feel free to post and I'll go with the consensus if there's a problem. Dugwiki 23:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that, for at least the list of "best-known" and mature musicals (or whatever we call it), spoiler warnings are not necessary. I don't think people want to be surprised by the ending of famous musicals. However, I'm not sure about newer musicals (less than 3 years old?) or musicals that are not the most familiar ones. Would a spoiler warning be appropriate, or should we assume that anyone reading a "synopsis" of a musical alread knows that it will give away the ending? Note that the Opera project has agreed that spoiler warnings are unnecessary for all operas and operettas. What say you all? -- Ssilvers 02:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's a radical idea: I suggest that our default be "No spoiler warning". However, if a show has truly suspenseful or surprise ending, then the editor can put on a spoiler warning. It takes judgment on the part of an editor, and it is subjective, but I think people will know a real surprise ending when they see one. -- Ssilvers 12:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
What if we only put spoiler warnings for shows that are still playing in theatres now? Many shows that have closed already have probably have become part of the culture as some of you have argued already, and also, if a show is closed there's not much opportunity to see it anyway (unless it's a movie or book too, or is about to be revived), so what's to spoil? But I think shows like Wicked (musical) definitely need a spoiler warning, and I agree with User:Usgnus about erring on the side of not spoiling. I agree people should know better than to read the "Plot" section if they don't want to know the end, but some people might read it because they just want a general synopsis of a show before seeing it and may not want to know the ending. I don't feel very strongly either way, but I'd also rather sound superfluous than spoil. -- Drenched 02:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team for Wikipedia 1.0 would like you to identify the " key articles" from your project that should be included in a small CD release due to their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 0.5 and later versions. Hopefully it will help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please add to the Musical Theatre WikiProject article table any articles of high quality. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 05:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2006/July#.7B.7BMusical-stub.7D.7D_or_.7B.7BMusical-play-stub.7D.7D -- Usgnus 00:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Please see the talk page there, regarding criteria for inclusion. -- Ssilvers 08:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Not a member of the project, but I recently split Steel Pier into another article, Steel Pier (musical), about the musical. I also removed the link from your project's red link page. Just thought I'd let you guys know so you can work on the page and sort it however you sort articles in this project -- Phantom784 21:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and put in category templates for Category:Musicals by year. It uses the same format as Category:Plays by year and other "by year" categories. This will allow people to sort musicals by year, by decade and by century.
FYI, though, I noticed one weird glitch. For some reason Category:21st century musicals isn't appearing on the page Category:Musicals by year as a subcategory. This is really strange because on the 21st century musicals page it DOES show "Musicals by year" as a parent category. So it's right in one place but wrong in the other. Maybe someone with some technical expertise in templates can figure that one out? Dugwiki 16:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone else think it looks absurd for Category:21st century musicals to have links going all the way out to the year 2100? Marc Shepherd 21:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I just added another parent category to the template musicalyr. It makes all musicals-by-year appear as a subcategory of the corresponding year-in-music. So, for example, Category:1967 musicals now should also appear as a subcategory of Category:1967 in music.
Currently it looks like the change hasn't proprogated completely, but hopefully the system will automatically update all the category listings eventually. (Right now, for instance, you'll see "1967 in music" as a parent category on the "1967 musicals" page, but you don't yet see "1967 musicals" under the subcategories on the "1967 in music" page.) Dugwiki 20:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
In light of all the categorization I've been up to, I noticed that Category:Musicals had Category:Plays as a parent category. However, in the process of going through the musicals, I realized that Plays probably isn't the right parent. That's because currently Musicals includes both stage productions AND film-only musicals AND animated musicals. Thus it overlaps both Film and Theatre.
I checked around a bit, and it looks like Category:Performing arts is a better parent than Category:Plays. Note that Performing arts already includes Opera, Film and Theatre as subcategories, so I think Musicals fits in well with those. So I took the liberty of changing Musical's parent to Performing arts.
Of course, even though it seems logical to me, it's possible someone will have an objection. So if there's any issues or problems with the change, please feel free to discuss it or change it back and go with the consensus. It's literally a one-word change in the category description, so it's trivial to change it back if needed. Dugwiki 20:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
A consensus needs to be reached as to whether the listed years in the list of musicals should link to a specific year (i.e. 1972) or to the article regarding the year in music (i.e. 1972 in music). The page in its current state contains a variety of links. I personally would prefer the year, as opposed to the year in music; linking to the year in music suggests that the musical made a VERY important contribution to the music scene at the time. MG, 22:35, 19 Jul 2006
When the title of the musical is mentioned throughout the article about the musical, should it just appear Capitalized, Italicized, Bolded, "In quotes", or what? I've noticed that many articles have been lacking in consistency and often jump around all these options at whim. I know this is such a stupid insignificant little matter, but I have OCD and it's driving me batty and I want to settle the matter once and for all. I'm leaning towards Italicized or maybe even just Capitalized, but that's just my ungrounded preference. What do you all think? -- Drenched 02:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Right, I think the first time you use it, it should be: The Fantasticks is a musical by.... Thereafter, it should just be The Fantasticks. -- Ssilvers 04:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Just a suggestion, guys. If you spot a Broadway musical article lacking references, try looking it up at The Internet Broadway Database (www.ibdb.com). You can then cut-and-paste a link to the show's database entry as an citation to verify some of the info about the musical. IBDB is a decent, reliable quick reference if the article needs one for basic info.
Likewise, if you spot a film or TV show article with no references, try The Internet Movie Database (www.imdb.com). Good sites to keep in mind for Broadway/Film/TV references. Dugwiki 23:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Looks like we've got the pages for musicals, at least, somewhat full. I assume we start assessing now? Any particular guidelines, or should we start brainstorming them? Crystallina 23:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
This probably isn't the right place to post (but article assessment's own discussion board seems a bit dead compared to here!) but here goes anyway. Do you guys think it'd be a good idea to have each article assessed by more than one editor to promote consistency in rating? I know that assessing that massive list of musicals just once is already a rather daunting task & this is probably a stretch, but I'm just throwing that out there. P.S. I made a new article, jukebox musical, but it sucks right now, so please help fix it! Thanks. -- Drenched 02:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
There have been two propositions made about the finalization of both the infobox template and the Article Structure page. Each of the Propositions has been made on the respective talk page but I've decided to post links to them here as they are both very important decisions and discussions. Please read each of them thoroughly and add your comments or votes.
-- omtay38 06:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Nothing will draw more attention to this project than getting a Featured Article. Of course, that takes time and dedicated effort. Both of which we're capable of providing. Let's choose a few articles to seriously work on, improve, expand. The first goal is Good Article status.
Any suggestions? I have a few in mind but won't push them until I get group input. Crystallina 16:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
If you have come from other parts of Wikipedia, please see our other subpages:
as your question may be answered or may currently be in discussion there. Thanks!
-The WikiProject Musical Theatre Team
-- omtay38 02:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
When an infobox is added (namely the {{ Infobox Musical}} infobox) what production should be used to fill in the information if the musical has had more than one production? Should the Infobox be tweaked to exclude information that would require such a choice? How So?
What should be done when an article contains information on both the film and the stage version of a musical and/or an article about both musicals has the film infobox?
What stub should be applied to what musical articles that are stub worthy (many seem to be in use currently):
others? Should articles be standardized to remove one stub type?
How should other stage art forms sometimes meshed with Musicals (operas, operettas, dance productions, musical revues) be handled?
Another question -- choreographers?
Should theaters themselves be under our umbrella?
Not all the Musicals in Wikipedia are on the list of musicals. Below, please list locations of larger lists of musicals and/or their related composers, writers, performers etc.
I feel that because this is WikiProject Musicals and not WikiProject Broadway, Off Broadway, Opera, or West end, we should simply stick to the Category:Musicals. There are WikiProjects for several of the others that can categorize their own things but I think our focus should be on improving articles, not sorting them. Thus creating an all-encompassing Musicals category is to our best benefit. -- omtay38 04:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
It seems that the thrust of the project is on all of musical theatre and not just musicals themselves. Should this be reflected by a name change for the project? — Music Maker 07:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
It's a well-documented fact that the Americans and the Brits use different spellings. Should we be using "theater" or "theatre"?
Personally, I think that when referring to the art, we should use "theatre". When we're referring to a building, we should use the convention germane to the location of the building. — Music Maker 07:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Have made some specific inclusions and exclusions in the Scope section based on previous discussions (eg theatre buildings are out) and a personal feel for how the project is evolving (eg operattas are out, film musicals and revues such as the Zigfield Follies or Side by Side by Sondheim are in). Happy to revert of course. -- Malfourmed ( user talk) 20:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Are we including the award institutions pertaining to musical theater as well (most notably the Tony Awards) in our scope? Drenched 17:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the discussion of sections of articles, you might want to take a look at WikiProject Opera's guidelines just to see how they have them set up. I don't think we should identically copy what they have, but it's as similar a concept that we might find. — Music Maker 03:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I've been doing some looking around, replacing instances of {{
Broadway-project}}, and I found that
WikiProject New York Theatre is "active". It's been one editor since January, and he's only made one edit (anywhere) in the last two months. I left him a message on his talk page when I was doing that, and he hasn't responded. It looked like he was focusing on Broadway, but had been adding some musical pages. I replaced {{
Broadway-project}} with {{
Musicals-project}} on anything that was for a musical (as it was redirecting there, anyway), and left the others -- mainly articles for the specific theaters.
Wikipedia:WikiProject Broadway now redirects to
Wikipedia:WikiProject New York Theatre, while
Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicals redirects to WikiProject Musical Theatre.
Apparently, when the three projects (WikiProject Broadway, WikiProject New York Theatre, and WikiProject Off-Broadway) were created, the same template, {{
Broadway-project}}, was used for all three. As were all the other templates.
The {{
Musicals-category}} template had found its way on to several non-category, non-talk page pages. Unless I'm mistaken, right now it is only on
Category:Musicals and WikiProject New York Theatre and Off-Broadway. {{
Broadway-category}} was redirecting to Musicals-category, but I've created a template there directing people to WikiProject New York Theatre. The only category it is found on is
Category:Broadway theatres.
If anyone feels that these were not the right moves can certainly revert them or change them.
I've been toying with moving the templates to something using the phrase "Musical Theatre": {{
Project Musical Theatre}} or the like. I would just as soon continue using "Musicals-project" as it is simply more concise. (And as "Musicals-project" is on 500+ pages....)
—
Music
Maker 08:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
While re-categorizing, I came across this little gem: A Christmas Held Captive. This was a show that ran for two months in Beverly Hills twenty years ago and yielded no results on Google. The lyricist was Robert J. Sherman (also Afd'ed), who was 16 at the time, and son of the Sherman mini-dynasty. It seems blatantly autobio. If you'd like to join the AfD discussion, here and here. — Music Maker 00:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm relatively sure we all consider this to be a talk page, and as such it should probably be moved into the Wikipedia talk namespace. I think the main page associated with this talk page would be a good place to list all of the current proposals. I didn't want to just move this without letting everyone know, first. (Furthermore, I'm not even sure how one would do that....) — Music Maker 00:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I was looking over some items removed from Category:Musicals
It seems that aritcles such as The Mystery of Edwin Drood and The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby were removed from the category because it linked to a page which summarized the musical version in a secondary paragraph.
Other articles like Lord of the Dance (musical) were removed. This is a musical dance review.. I don't see why it was removed?
Les Parapluies de Cherbourg is a famous film musical. Why wasn't it moved to Musical films?
-- Kunzite 06:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I just discovered this project. In the last 24 hours I've added some templates: Andrew Lloyd Webber, Lerner and Loewe, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Gilbert and Sullivan and Stephen Sondheim, allowing easy access to all of the works of these great composers.
I just thought I'd note this here, if anyone has questions or projects relating to these composers or their musicals (I suppose Gilbert & Sullivan belong in the Opera Project), feel free to ask me! Daydream believer2 07:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Meanwhile, I'm going to have a go at adding a few Infoboxes. Daydream believer2 07:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
These lists exist:
Should there be a list of musical theatre actors? I think I would vote Yes on that. Ssilvers 00:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Ssilvers 22:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I nominated Category:Musicals based on movies to Category:Musicals based on films. Please express your support or opposition at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 7#Category:Musicals based on movies to Category:Musicals based on films. -- Usgnus 17:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking of proposing Category:Source material for musicals or something along those lines for such things as Leroux's The Phantom of the Opera or Doctorow's Ragtime or even The Wedding Singer. Any thoughts? — Music Maker 21:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we should put this category tag on all the major writing teams' pages. I'll go put it on Lerner and Loewe now: Category:Surname pairs -- Ssilvers 18:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I was tagging various musical theater actor/actress pages with the {Musicals-project} box. But there seemed to be some grey area to me, and I just wanted to clarify the scope of our project: which actors are included in this project? Are we tagging/editing the pages of every single person who has ever appeared in a Broadway musical or any musical theater production ever? (Deborah Cox has been on Broadway once...are we tagging her page too? Same for Melanie Brown, Joey McIntire, Stephen Lynch etc etc.) Or are we only tagging people who are primarily or very significantly musical theater actors? Drenched 06:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
A worthy question, and one I was about to pose myself. I mean, while there are some obviously Broadway actors, like Patti LuPone, you also have some who are in several fields like Bebe Neuwirth, or those like Jerry Orbach who are old hands at Broadway but well known in other fields. Well, I think perhaps it should be a matter of judgement. If someone performed in a Broadway musical once in their life, perhaps that shouldn't count, just like a TV actor with one bit-part in a film isn't a film actor really. But I also don't think we should have too stringent minimum criteria. I just don't think it should be limited to people who are primarily on Broadway - many like Hugh Jackman and Kelly Bishop have made themselves happy in other projects, even while contributing to Broadway. Daydream believer2 10:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Would it be useful to have a sub-category of Category:Musicals called "Musicals by composer"? If yes, would the further sub-categories be named on the model "Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals", "Musicals by Andrew Lloyd Webber", "Musicals with music by Andrew Lloyd Webber", or something else? -- Paul A 02:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC) (Edited to add: I notice there's already, for instance, Category:Rodgers and Hammerstein Musicals, for what it's worth. -- Paul A 02:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC))
I noticed that Category:Musicals is one of the few artistic categories not currently subcategorized by nationality. For example, Plays and Books and Albums all have nationality related subcategories.
I took the liberty of adding Category:Musicals by nationality as a subcategory of Category:Musicals. I also included an explanation that, in this context, nationality refers to the nationality of its authors/composers, as opposed to where the musical toured or the story is set. Within this appear subcategories by nationality, such as Category:American musicals and Category:British musicals.
Currently, I'm leaving untouched musicals with authors of multiple nationalities (eg an American composer and a British composer working together) since I wasn't 100% sure if they should appear under multiple nationalities or not.
Anyway, since nationality subcategories are already pretty standard for many other large categories of works, I figured this was a pretty non-controversial idea. But obviously if anybody has a question or issue on how I set this up, please feel free to post and I'll go with the consensus if there's a problem. Dugwiki 23:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that, for at least the list of "best-known" and mature musicals (or whatever we call it), spoiler warnings are not necessary. I don't think people want to be surprised by the ending of famous musicals. However, I'm not sure about newer musicals (less than 3 years old?) or musicals that are not the most familiar ones. Would a spoiler warning be appropriate, or should we assume that anyone reading a "synopsis" of a musical alread knows that it will give away the ending? Note that the Opera project has agreed that spoiler warnings are unnecessary for all operas and operettas. What say you all? -- Ssilvers 02:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's a radical idea: I suggest that our default be "No spoiler warning". However, if a show has truly suspenseful or surprise ending, then the editor can put on a spoiler warning. It takes judgment on the part of an editor, and it is subjective, but I think people will know a real surprise ending when they see one. -- Ssilvers 12:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
What if we only put spoiler warnings for shows that are still playing in theatres now? Many shows that have closed already have probably have become part of the culture as some of you have argued already, and also, if a show is closed there's not much opportunity to see it anyway (unless it's a movie or book too, or is about to be revived), so what's to spoil? But I think shows like Wicked (musical) definitely need a spoiler warning, and I agree with User:Usgnus about erring on the side of not spoiling. I agree people should know better than to read the "Plot" section if they don't want to know the end, but some people might read it because they just want a general synopsis of a show before seeing it and may not want to know the ending. I don't feel very strongly either way, but I'd also rather sound superfluous than spoil. -- Drenched 02:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team for Wikipedia 1.0 would like you to identify the " key articles" from your project that should be included in a small CD release due to their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 0.5 and later versions. Hopefully it will help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please add to the Musical Theatre WikiProject article table any articles of high quality. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 05:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2006/July#.7B.7BMusical-stub.7D.7D_or_.7B.7BMusical-play-stub.7D.7D -- Usgnus 00:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Please see the talk page there, regarding criteria for inclusion. -- Ssilvers 08:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Not a member of the project, but I recently split Steel Pier into another article, Steel Pier (musical), about the musical. I also removed the link from your project's red link page. Just thought I'd let you guys know so you can work on the page and sort it however you sort articles in this project -- Phantom784 21:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and put in category templates for Category:Musicals by year. It uses the same format as Category:Plays by year and other "by year" categories. This will allow people to sort musicals by year, by decade and by century.
FYI, though, I noticed one weird glitch. For some reason Category:21st century musicals isn't appearing on the page Category:Musicals by year as a subcategory. This is really strange because on the 21st century musicals page it DOES show "Musicals by year" as a parent category. So it's right in one place but wrong in the other. Maybe someone with some technical expertise in templates can figure that one out? Dugwiki 16:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone else think it looks absurd for Category:21st century musicals to have links going all the way out to the year 2100? Marc Shepherd 21:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I just added another parent category to the template musicalyr. It makes all musicals-by-year appear as a subcategory of the corresponding year-in-music. So, for example, Category:1967 musicals now should also appear as a subcategory of Category:1967 in music.
Currently it looks like the change hasn't proprogated completely, but hopefully the system will automatically update all the category listings eventually. (Right now, for instance, you'll see "1967 in music" as a parent category on the "1967 musicals" page, but you don't yet see "1967 musicals" under the subcategories on the "1967 in music" page.) Dugwiki 20:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
In light of all the categorization I've been up to, I noticed that Category:Musicals had Category:Plays as a parent category. However, in the process of going through the musicals, I realized that Plays probably isn't the right parent. That's because currently Musicals includes both stage productions AND film-only musicals AND animated musicals. Thus it overlaps both Film and Theatre.
I checked around a bit, and it looks like Category:Performing arts is a better parent than Category:Plays. Note that Performing arts already includes Opera, Film and Theatre as subcategories, so I think Musicals fits in well with those. So I took the liberty of changing Musical's parent to Performing arts.
Of course, even though it seems logical to me, it's possible someone will have an objection. So if there's any issues or problems with the change, please feel free to discuss it or change it back and go with the consensus. It's literally a one-word change in the category description, so it's trivial to change it back if needed. Dugwiki 20:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
A consensus needs to be reached as to whether the listed years in the list of musicals should link to a specific year (i.e. 1972) or to the article regarding the year in music (i.e. 1972 in music). The page in its current state contains a variety of links. I personally would prefer the year, as opposed to the year in music; linking to the year in music suggests that the musical made a VERY important contribution to the music scene at the time. MG, 22:35, 19 Jul 2006
When the title of the musical is mentioned throughout the article about the musical, should it just appear Capitalized, Italicized, Bolded, "In quotes", or what? I've noticed that many articles have been lacking in consistency and often jump around all these options at whim. I know this is such a stupid insignificant little matter, but I have OCD and it's driving me batty and I want to settle the matter once and for all. I'm leaning towards Italicized or maybe even just Capitalized, but that's just my ungrounded preference. What do you all think? -- Drenched 02:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Right, I think the first time you use it, it should be: The Fantasticks is a musical by.... Thereafter, it should just be The Fantasticks. -- Ssilvers 04:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Just a suggestion, guys. If you spot a Broadway musical article lacking references, try looking it up at The Internet Broadway Database (www.ibdb.com). You can then cut-and-paste a link to the show's database entry as an citation to verify some of the info about the musical. IBDB is a decent, reliable quick reference if the article needs one for basic info.
Likewise, if you spot a film or TV show article with no references, try The Internet Movie Database (www.imdb.com). Good sites to keep in mind for Broadway/Film/TV references. Dugwiki 23:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Looks like we've got the pages for musicals, at least, somewhat full. I assume we start assessing now? Any particular guidelines, or should we start brainstorming them? Crystallina 23:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
This probably isn't the right place to post (but article assessment's own discussion board seems a bit dead compared to here!) but here goes anyway. Do you guys think it'd be a good idea to have each article assessed by more than one editor to promote consistency in rating? I know that assessing that massive list of musicals just once is already a rather daunting task & this is probably a stretch, but I'm just throwing that out there. P.S. I made a new article, jukebox musical, but it sucks right now, so please help fix it! Thanks. -- Drenched 02:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
There have been two propositions made about the finalization of both the infobox template and the Article Structure page. Each of the Propositions has been made on the respective talk page but I've decided to post links to them here as they are both very important decisions and discussions. Please read each of them thoroughly and add your comments or votes.
-- omtay38 06:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Nothing will draw more attention to this project than getting a Featured Article. Of course, that takes time and dedicated effort. Both of which we're capable of providing. Let's choose a few articles to seriously work on, improve, expand. The first goal is Good Article status.
Any suggestions? I have a few in mind but won't push them until I get group input. Crystallina 16:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)