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I've started this project on Heavy metal music and it's sub-genres, to improve the standards of these existing articles and create missing articles. Join the Project by signing your name in the Participant's list.
New Rock Star 16:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Good job on creating this, I've seen several articles that really need the attention of knowledgeable metal fans. I'll help where I can. AidanPryde 19:40, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Somewhere far below this page, you described a fellow user as someone that has a problem with others disagreeing with him. I do not agree. IronChris was not the problem.
You are. You have been behaving in nothing short of an authoritarian manner over pages that you have been treating as your own private property.
Now, it seems to me that I was the one that sparked off the huge discussion on subgenre that had taken place in my absence. An absence that I would like to note was caused my disatisfaction of your self-appointed role here on the metal pages. I wish I had checked in on this page during that time because there is much that I would have like to contribute on. I do not know how many times I have seen someone on some page somewhere expressed a problem with you. On this page alone, one can easily find several instances. Do I need to compile a list of names and incidents? I hope not because I have better things to do with my time. Yet, you have continued to behave as if you are the dominatrix on a BDSM playground.
I would like to propose that something be done about it because I feel that you have been far more of a hindrance than a help towards improving the heavy metal pages on wikipedia. I would like to propose a vote. Specifically, I would like to ask the other members of the heavy metal project team and anyone else interested to vote on whether you should remain on the project team. But I suspect that both you and I can predict the results fairly accurately. What I would like to know is whether such a vote would even matter to you or would you still persist in treating wikipedia as your private playground? Added by user 86.132.129.13, but signed as Anarchodin 12:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
The Edward the Great article under the To Do list allready exists. Should it be removed or moved to a done title? Absolute Zero 22:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Need to fix the link in the Iron Maiden (band) article. I'll remove the article from the to do list.
N R S (talk to me, mail me or award me a barnstar) 04:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Found the two missing Dokken album photos Also, I have done a substantial amount of work on the Chuck Schuldiner page.
-- Johnson542 09:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
i did the article on les binks former drummer of judas priest * Halifax_corey ( talk · contribs)
The Still Hungry ? article is not created. This article is of some other band. I have moved the article to the create list.
Me tal Thunder मेटल थणडर| (Talk) 09:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/Metalsign.jpg/50px-Metalsign.jpg
The metal salute (sign) is done with the index finger and pinky NOT index, pinky, and thumb. That image should be replaced with a correct one. Pasajero 19:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I made a new one. I think it looks a little goofy, but at least its correct. What do you guys think? + Johnson 20:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Whatever makes Leyasu happy. + Johnson 01:12, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I wanted to ask, what is the "WikiProject Heavy Metal notice" for exactly? Does it have to be on every heavy metal music related article? Also, I just created the pages for Malmonde (a french electro-industrial-death metal band) and Axel Rudi Pell. I was very surprised to find that the latter wasn't already there. It would need a bit of expanding though, and I didn't know if I should create two pages, one for the musician, and one for the band... Sounds a bit too much so I just made one. Also, the stub on André Matos should be expanded, after all, he is quite an influencial and famous vocalist (Viper, Angra, Shaaman). When I get time I'll start a page for Mike Terrana (Rage, Yngwie J. Malmsteen, Axel Rudi Pell, Metalium, Squealer...). Cheers -- IronChris 18:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Erm... my question remains however, where is the "WikiProject Heavy Metal notice" supposed to go? It's not very clear to me, is it just for articles initiated by members of WikiProject Metal, or does it have to be placed on the talk page of every Heavy Metal group article? -- IronChris 23:06, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
The List of heavy metal bands is in dire need of a clean up. As Fuzzypeg states on the talk page, "many of these band names are wikified, but the wikilinks take you to the wrong place" and many bands in the list don't have an article, some of them probably shouldn't be there anyway (no discography, etc.). It also needs a better lay out, maybe a similar one to the artist list on the industrial metal page could be used, it's very neat; apparently it's used extensively on the german wikipedia. I think it's an important page, and should be brought up to Wikipedia standards (which it certainly doesn't reach in its present state). What do you think should be done? -- IronChris 02:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I do not know about anybody else but I find the list of metal subgenres to be rather messy and unhelpful. The infobox in the main Heavy Metal article lists 13 subgenres of metal and 10 fusion genres. Browsing around, however, would lead one to encounter other infobox that expands the list to include such entries as "melodic death metal" and "blackened death metal" (shouldn't they be covered under death metal itself?) as well as other entries such as Celtic metal and Oriental metal. On the Folk Metal article, someone has even listed a genre known as Pirate Metal.
My objection here is that there are really only a handful of metal subgenres and yet by browsing through wikipedia, one might get the impression that there are more than thirty different metal subgenres. As it is now, I see six different concepts that are being grouped together under the umbrella term of subgenre.
Group 1: The primary style in which the vocals, guitars, drums and bass are being played. Black. Death. Power. Thrash. Doom. Glam (or Pop). Classic. These are metal subgenres that stand alone.
Group 2: The secondary style that is layered on top, over or fused with the primary style. Gothic. Folk. Progressive. None of these subgenres stand alone. A band combines the stylistic elements of folk music, gothic ethos or progressive aspirations with their primary genre - death, doom, power, etc.
Group 3: The manner or approach in which the above groups are brought about. Symphonic. Avant-garde. Neo-classical. Tech (or Math). Speed. These are not subgenres of metal but rather a stylistic preference amongst a diverse array of bands from different subgenres. Some fans who are drawn to a particular stylistic preference might have a desire to label it as a subgenre. You can find bands in the power, black and gothic subgenres using a symphonic approach. You can find bands in the black, gothic or doom subgenres using an avant-garde approach. You can find bands in the power, death or progressive genres using a tech approach. An analogy would be the choice of a first person, second person or third person narrative or approach in a book. I find such terms as Dark Metal and Extreme Metal to be rather redundant but if people insist, they can fit into this group too.
Group 4: Fusion with music outside the family of metal. Funk. Industrial. Grindcore. Alternative. Etc.
Group 5: Regional scenes that develop a particular style unto their own. Gothenburg, NWOBHM, Bay Area, Florida. I believe Oriental metal comes under this group as well.
Group 6: Distinction arising from non-musical consideration. Christian metal. Viking metal. And if someone really wants it, pirate metal.
I believe it would be more sensible to distinguish the above groups from one another as follows. I am referring particularly to the infobox.
Subgenres: Group 1 & 2
Fusion genres: Group 4
Common Stylistic Approaches: Group 3
Regional Scenes: Group 5
Lyrical Themes & Images: Group 6.
This is merely a suggestion to clean up something that I personally find to be rather messy and muddy. I will leave it to you lot in the project team to discuss the merits and lack of with regards to my proposal. Cheers. -- Anarchodin 10:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I've spent some time editing the Stoner rock / metal article, which Leyasu / Ley Shade does not deem suitable for inclusion on heavy metal lists and templates. That's being discussed on a different page, and my intended involvement in this project goes a lot deeper than stoner metal, but it's another case in point. Stoner metal gets over 370,000 googles so dismissing it as a made-up genre doesn't cut it. The only claim that can really be made is that you don't regard it as "true metal" - fine as an opinion but it becomes POV when you start deleting references to it as a sub-genre of metal without consensus. Wikipedia is never going to be the last bastion of true metal and trying to exclude styles or labels you don't agree with is a losing battle. Every genre was "made-up" once but this 2006, the face of what is considered "metal" might have changed, and we need to deal with that. I'm as much a fan of the "true metal" genres as anyone, and I hope to concentrate on encylopedia-building and getting people involved, rather than the minutiae of labelling. Deizio 13:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
What we needs is guidelines for genre inclusion (see also WP:MUS and the talk page). Further we need to fix the list of actual heavy metal (sub-)genres in the list of heavy metal genres and get a consensus really that this is it. From thereon we can start fixing the actual genre articles, deleting with this consesus in mind all sub-genre articles, merging them where necessary.
See Still Hungry, and Still Hungry. + Johnson 04:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I just wanted to mention that I made a category for the metalhead subculture! If you would like to join, please go here
Category:Metalhead Wikipedians
If this is irrelevant on this talk page then please feel free to delete. Thanks! ( Wikieizor 11:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC))
This area is for discussion of the core genres in relation to the poll. All previous comments that have not been votes are here. Please feel free to debate the genre in its subposition below. Ley Shade
needs a complte rewrite, top to bottom. Big in albania 11:24, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
?! this is an oxymoron
I'd say this style is just a combination of Gothic rock/punk that started first with metal elements. I'd say it is as much a core genre as metalcore... which is. Daevin
Building on an idea Ley Shade advanced above, is seems sensible that Template:Heavymetal will contain only the "core genres" - ie the ones "kept" from the poll, while the List of heavy metal bands should have 3 sections; Core (ie the ones on the template), minor (genres with a high degree of "distinct"-ness but not strictly core, and the cross-references, which can contain more or less anything with metal roots and a decent article behind it.
If this is acceptable, then a "keep" vote above is still for the core genres that will go on the template. It is also fine to vote "Minor" or "Cross-ref" instead of "delete", although as not everyone might feel like changing their votes we can sort out these two sections in the next stage of this process. Thoughts? Deizio 11:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I am not particularly interested in music, but I've noticed a lot of switching around colors on the Infobox, and creating new, inappropriate tempaltes (such as template:Trashmetal, which I subst'ed). In any case, any change in infobox colors should be worked out with the Music genre WikiProject, which maintains a list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres/Colours. Circeus 19:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Im calling attention to the above article. The article is currently the target for much vandalism, especially from the user Danteferno, who has been placed on 1R a day and has currently claimed ownership of the article and has forbiddon any and all users involved in this project from editing it. I would request that members of the project monitor this article closely for changes, and revert and clean up as and where neccesary. Ley Shade 12:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
It would help greatly if new voters, particularly if new to the project, relatively new to Wikipedia and / or when voting against the "tide" of already cast votes, could give a rationale to support their vote which demonstrates understanding of what we are attempting to do with this poll and the heavy metal list and template, and the definitions of "core" (indicated by a "keep" vote), "minor" and "cross-reference". Also, it should be intuitive that participating in this poll indicates a willingness to abide by the results of consensus built by the poll. Deizio 13:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
What's going on over on the black metal talk page is just ridiculous. I know we haven't yet agreed on what is a major, minor and cross-ref genre, but we also need to reach an agreement on what subgenres and sub-subgenres can be included on Wikipedia and which can't.
Discussions over "pirate metal" illustrate this. Despite the 14.100 google hits, pirate metal is not considered a valid subgenre by some, whereas others would like to have a section on it in Wikipedia (for my part, I have no strong opinion on it, though I tend to think it is not notable enough by number of bands).
The Black Metal page is facing daily reverts by those who think "faggoth", "troll metal", "war metal" or "cyber metal" should have their own section as a subgenre, and those who oppose this. We cannot keep on like this, the discussions are not leading anywhere and we need to reach a concensus to stop these excessive reverts and avoid edit wars.
I propose that discussions about the validity of sugenres should all be grouped here. I will start a list of controversial genres and sections, and everyone can put their opinion. I cannot stress enough the importance of stopping this ridiculous reverting process, and the inconclusive discussions that are scattered all over the talk pages of different articles.
If a subgenre seems controversial, just add it here and lets discuss it all together. Don't just delete it leaving a 3 word edit summary, this will just lead to more reverts and more frustration. -- IronChris 21:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
All those silly subgenres are very much of out control on WP. Most should be deleted where some information may be kept in one of the "core genres". Regional scenes should be merged either into a general regional metal scenes article or just into their core genre article. Spearhead 22:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
==-- X y l y X | (talk) 18:11, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Now you have also asked me why its notable? Well I can't speak for the Pakistan Metal but in Iran Rock bands do not get to do live acts and recently a friend of mine was sent to jail for a month and had to pay £2000 (Thats almost a working year's worth of money for students in Iran where it is 2,500,000 rials) for playing loud (metal) music in his car (in Iran). Now if you knew what this scene means to those people you wouldn't ask for its notability, it's almost a case of exercising human rights for some in these 'Islamic' countries.
Metal Archives lists 24 bands for Iran most being Black or death metal, and if you knew what they have to go through to release material over there, you wouldn't ask for their notibility. -- - K a s h Talk | email 18:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I called this article for AFD. As said above if we include this as an article we need hundreds of more articles or regional black metal, death metal, doom metal and whatever metal that have basically no content and anything far from notability. Anyway, it was voted to be merged into something, either the black metal article or pakistani music (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistani black metal). As to keep this information the BM article was chosen as a placeholder, until we decided what to do with it and this is actually precisely what we are trying to do. I don't this information is required in WP, nevertheless an article or section about the status or heavy metal music (in general, not BM otherwise, we'd have many article with pretty much the same content) describing the metal position in islamic countries or countries with a oppressive regime (eg. Heavy metal in countries with an oppressive regime or Heavy metal in Islamic countries with dozens of redirects linking such regional scenes to it). Such information is far more interesting and ecyclopedic than listing a bunch of bands that hardly anyone has ever heard of. Spearhead 20:20, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Please lets not get anal about it - I have a fear that we will decend into farce! -- PopUpPirate 00:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC) To know what is metal and what isn't metal check this page www.metal-archives.com , its very strict -- Neo139 06:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
As you can see I'm beginning to close the debates above. I'm starting with the ones clearly marked as Keep, as core genres. I propose leaving the others open for a further week, hence I certainly don't anticipate making any controversial decisions at this stage. Deizio 16:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
First off, im back, you can all worship me now xD
Second: I noticed someone setup another set of polls. Just to let you know, the polls are completely redundant. Things have been moved and merged and kept after AFD, thus you cannot 'delete' them, at all. Period. Unless you all want banning for AFD violation. That means, you can move them within reason, but NO information must be lost without very good cause. This applies to: Faggoth/Pakistani Stuff/Troll Metal/War Metal. That means, your whole voting process was made redunant.
Thirdly im moving the vote on core genres, and reopening all of them. All previous votes shall be kept and a time limit for ALL of them, will be induced. Ill also personally message every user thats part of this project to alert them of the poll.
You people just fall apart without me :P
Anything else anyone wants to ask, drop down my talk page. Literally, drop down it - its more fun than climbin up it xD Ley Shade 06:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
On To do list subsection Expansion Album articles Perseverance (album) by Hatebreed is done so... DELETE it from the list, and you could add new albums to the list or... ( Reply here) Death2 03:17, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I find it amazing the number of new members in just two weeks. As soon as we started all these hardcore changes, the membership probably more than doubled. I guess we pissed a lot of people off, and they said "if we can't beat them, we will join them!" I had to take a wikibreak there was so much anger going around. + Johnson 06:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
After a few days away from WP I find Ley Shade has decided to reopen the closed genre debates, moved the poll to a different page and changed / created the rules. This is getting far too complicated and new people voting don't understand what they are voting for. If those who had been involved from the beginning could have reached a common position we could have tried to enforce it. 10 out of 10 for telling project members about the poll, much less for making a useful contribution.
The new poll is not linked from the project page or this discussion page, until now. The list of topics above has seen some things removed, others left, others partially removed and should have been removed completely. The idea to vote major / minor / cross ref has been unilaterally binned by Ley Shade as part of a new selection of voting rules that have appeared from nowhere. Some votes were made under the old system and don't make sense now.
"You people just fall apart without me", hmm, things might have actually started to get done without you. This could just succeed in screwing up all the work we put in, and you could be left with a template full of cross-references. Well done Ley, I look forward to seeing what kind of formula you apply when closing the debates, as I'm sure you'll be insisting on taking full control over the outcomes. Looks like some clear cut answers just turned into a lot of "no consensus" because of a flood of new voters unsure what they're voting for (check out some of the comments on the new poll). AfD standards will have to apply and everyone will be watching. This is not the time to start creating future differences of opinion, if I had been around when you decided to do this (or if you had attempted to float new ideas before plunging in) I have a suspicion things would have been better in the long run. Now we'll just have to wait and see... Deizio 23:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm sure most of you know of the recent block(s) of Ley Shade, and it seems s/he is retaliating. Any edit I make to anything, or any page my name is on in recent edits, was vandalised or vandalistically reverted by 86.143.126.71, likely User:Leyasu in retaliation. Please look out for any vandalistic edits by this or ANY other anonymous IP's targeted at articles I have edited. Thank you all very much. -- Ryouga 23:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, User:Leyasu and I have come to an agreement on which we will both discuss the following articles and decide the appropriate edits necessary:
* 18:54, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) The Adversary (album) (rev per leyasu) * 18:53, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) City of Evil (rev per leyasu) (top) * 18:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Black metal (rev per leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) ReLoad (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Black Metal (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Welcome to Hell (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Painkiller (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) S&M (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) At War with Satan (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:51, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Slayer (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:51, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Ace of Spades (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:50, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Cacophony (band) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:50, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Helloween (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Load (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Metal Black (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Chimaira (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Possessed (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:48, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Speed metal (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:46, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Children of Bodom (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:46, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) List of heavy metal genres (Rv per leyasu) (top) * 19:45, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Venom (band) (rv per leyasu) (top)
The reason I am posting this here is so other users can see what edits have/are being/been made. Thus allowing other users to contribute their thoughts and opinions on what should be done. I am doing this so we have more than 2 heads working on these articles, and thus everyone's views can be considered while trying to construct better articles. Thanks -- Ryouga 05:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I have closed the above discussion. Thanks to everyone who participated. Unfortunately, I am afraid that it was all in vain. Indeed, User:Leyasu seems to have decided what should and what shouldn't be considered a valid subgenre.
Let's take the faggoth section for example. Everyone seems to agree here that this section is ridiculous, as shown by the frequent deletions of the section and the 7 unanimous votes in favour of its permanent deletion. But User:Leyasu has apparently decided to keep it, reverting any deletions as vandalism. Well, if that's isn't a clear concensus, I don't know what is! 1 against 7 (8 counting Ryouga)! Good job, very honest.
Oh yes, Leyasu is going to point out that there was an AfD for this section, that everyone can see here. Let me just say that it was the most inconclusive AfD I've ever seen, in which 4 people voted including the writer of the section (probably because no one knew the AfDs were taking place anyway; I certainly didn't), against 7 votes here. But still, Leyasu seems to think he's the owner of every metal-related article and can do what he likes even if it goes against the general concensus.
As for war metal, there appears to have been no discussion, it was just put on the BM page in a rather random fashion, regardless of its notability (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/War metal).
For the fun of it (as nothing can be done as long as Leyasu disagrees), here are the results of the polls :
As for me, I find these disagreements and bickering tiring. Even the sensible discussions are useless as long as there will be some people who think they can decide everything for themselves regardless of the opinion of other people. Deizio illustrates this point perfectly in his message above. I don't want to go on with all this, it's just too annoying and nothing is coming of it anyway. So I will no longer try to edit pages related to heavy metal genres. The black metal page is a very sad sight, but all I've got to say is let it rot, if that's how things are going to be from now on.
I don't know how I feel about leaving "in charge" someone who has been blocked 10 times in 3 months for various offences, but whatever, I'm tired of fighting. Good luck. -- IronChris | (talk) 19:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I rectified my message. -- IronChris | (talk) 22:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I believe the anon IP(s) have already requested a block extension, so I guess we'll wait and see what's done about that. I seriously hope we can clear up these metal pages some day without all the reverts -- Ryouga 00:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This article was pretty messy / misleading. I edited it as I could, but I don't exactly know 100% about it. So check it out and please feel free and edit accordingly. -- Ryouga 01:42, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
The only "real" subgenres that I know of that are classed as math/tech metal are 'technical death metal', 'mathcore' and 'technical metalcore'. other than that math and tech metal are not subgenres, which is what I tried to incorporate in the article. but i myself am not an expert on it, so anything anyone knows will be helpful. -- Ryouga 16:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I know that BOTH 'tech metal' and 'math metal' are not subgenres, as Ley said, but I know that Mathcore, Technical Death Metal and Technical Metalcore are. If wanted for AFD that's ok with me, since Tech Death Metal is in Death Metal article and Mathcore has its own. I dunno if Tech Metalcore is mentioned in metalcore, though. But do keep in mind it took me a while to get that info and fix up what was before a near-terrible article, so if possible, cleanup would be much preferred. -- Ryouga 20:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
As most of my friends consider me an expert on the genre, I'm going to edit the page completely. I will be changing it to Technical Death Metal and editing appropriatly. I don't know what to do with all of the metalcore/mathcore references. A lot of the bands considered technical could fit in deathcore, mathcore, noisecore, technical metalcore or (my preferenece) progressive metalcore. I'll keep those sections on the tech death page until we/I can figure out what to do with it. Is there a hardcore project that would organize those random terms or should we?-- Daevin 05:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I re-did the entire page. I'm going to go through all the bands to edit that a bit more and add band that are missing. I'll be in contact with the punk project people to see if they want to reorganize the core subgenres cause it looks like a complete mess. Once that is cleaned up I will get rid of most all references to metalcore. If anyone wants to re-open a tech metal page, I'd be happy to edit it but the page looked really bad because it would use vague references to prog metal, refer to messhuggah's math metal and overall didn't make any sense. I think my re-do should look more official.
I'm now trying to find any refferences to tech metal to edit those as well.-- Daevin 19:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I'll admit I don't know what you mean by a disambiguation page, however as I develop the article further, it will be clear the list of bands is rather large and will continue to grow as bands like Necrophagist and Beneath the Massacre grow in popularity. It is mentioned on the death metal article and is growing, it is probably about 5 years behind the melodic death metal genre. If we want to rework the death metal article, I wouldn't be opposed to merging most of the article, in it's own section, with the 10 subgenres of death metal. I think the articl would need to remain though because of the amount of bands there are that specifically play that style and none other.
Either way, tech metal is a term that isnt a subgenre and applies to all tech death bands and a few other bands here and there. Maybe the disambiguation page is the answer, but the "tech metal" article didn't make any sense.-- Daevin 04:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
What to do with this article Iranian metal? I copied most of the content to Heavy metal in Islamic countries; altho it barely contains any content. It went to a farce AFD (was voted keep as "if it is that hard to play metal there, it must be notalbe"). Better redirect the Iranian metal page to Heavy metal in Islamic countries. Spearhead 21:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Please tell your contributer Spearhead to stop trying to get topics deleted and do as he pleases.
Your Metal project seems like its going down the usual road, whats next, deleting Slipknot because its not true metal?!!
This user first tried to delete pages such as Iranian metal and Pakistani black metal, since he wasn't successful, it resulted in yet more uncomfortable actions such as Pakistani black metal being merged with Black metal.
Now he has decided to redirect pages such as Iranian metal to Heavy metal in Islamic countries without any discussion in the article's talk page. His excuse is that there was a discussion here (I can see no discussion regarding the metal in Iran in particular, and the Islamic country idea seems to be only of his own).
I ask you to tell your members not to do such things without discussing them first in the article's talk pages, and if possible contacting the article's contributers first. You can't just decide for everything here without consulting the contributers of the pages. I had raised attention to the topic just here yet generalisation carried on and actions were done without much discussion. Black metal in isle of man section on Black metal article is different to Metal scene of a country which obviously not many people here know about. -- - K a s h Talk | email 21:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Lets not forget that if anyone here is knowledgeable about metal music in Iran, its me here, and I ask you to keep out of that article until I get some time to work on it. -- - K a s h Talk | email 22:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
As we seem to be going through genre articles to put a bit of order at the moment, I would like to know what other people think about the article epic metal. It seems to me to be very badly written, lacks references and overlaps greatly with other genres. Something has to be done, I would even consider an AfD as the article is very confusing in its present state and doesn't seem to add much, but the result would probably be keep (as usual). What do you guys think about it? -- IronChris | (talk) 03:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
If anyone here has the time, please check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres/Assessment and update it with the status of metal related genres. This is being done in conjunction with WP:WVWP to try and get genre articles up to 1.0 standards. I've made a start by adding some metal genre articles but any help would be appreciated.
P.S. You might want to look at starting your own WikiProject Metal article assessment for related articles as it's a great way to keep track of what's needing work done. -- MilkMiruku 01:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
To many articles, some one has recently been adding Metal Observer reviews in the infobox. (E.g. see Testimony of the Ancients) The site itself does not have a WP article. I think that these are link spam and hence I usually remove them. What do you think? Spearhead 17:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
ATTENTION EVERYONE: June 6, 2006 (6/6/06) is National Day of Slayer. Please plan your schedules accordingly.
Website: http://www.nationaldayofslayer.org/
-- Eastlaw 22:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
The poll has closed, the results are as follows:
Keep, to be listed on Template:Heavymetal;
Further debate required, and not to be added at this time;
Everything else has been closed as delete.
As such, the template will be edited to reflect this consensus. Items not in the keep list can be removed from the template if re-added, with the rationale:
"Removing non-core subgenre, per results of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Metal/Poll]]. Please raise questions and suggestions at the [[Template talk:Heavymetal|template talk page]] and the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Metal|WikiProject Metal talk page]]."
Obviously, not everyone backed every winner - we have all gained and lost genres we like in this process, which is a design feature of building consensus. Any WP:HMM member or metal contributor is welcome to put any sub-genre up for debate on this talk page, provided they have a good-faith reason to do so. A template featuring the deleted sub-genres could also be created, perhaps Template:Heavy metal sub-genres.
I would also invite contributors to add their support by endorsing the findings of the poll. Strong endorsement will aid effective enforcement, and allow us to make this process mean something. Deizio 02:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Can someone tell me what is the conventional way for writing song and album titles? Should they be in italics, quotation marks, etc.? Is there a page about this (I couldn't find one)? If not maybe we should have a section about it on the main page (and if there is a page we could add a link on the main page). Thanks. Iron C hris | (talk) 23:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
How about setting up something alike Wikipedia:Wikiproject Horror/Collaboration of the month. Spearhead 18:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone here heard of these guys? If so, do you dig them as much as I do? I wrote an artcle about Mind Over Four and I would appreciate your additions/edits/feedback. -- Eastlaw 05:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Who put that Nu-metal needed to be merged with alternative rock. They are most certainly not the same thing. DG X 22:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Have you noticed all the metal articles being continually spammed with a link to metallian.com? Sometimes they link to a metallian page that’s actually about the band, but usually it’s just metallian.com. I have alerted an admin about this. David Hain 04:25, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, could I have some suggestions and aid for my hard rock wikiproject. DavidJJJ 17:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to remind everybody that there has been an endeavour to start a Metal Collaboration of the Month, and for the moment very few people have voted to nominate an article. If anyone is interested, please take a look at the Nominees and cast your vote. Thanks. Iron C hris | (talk) 20:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm dubious concerning User:Walri's recent edits to Heavy metal music, bu i know nothing of the topic, can somebody please have a look? Circeus 00:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Man, there's alot bands there; it's a bit daunting. Maybe we could trim the list down some...to say 5 or so and create a page for what's been edited out. Then when an article gets created from the main page move it out of the list there and replace it with one from the queue on the newly created page. maxcap 18:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I hope you like the new changes. -- Neo139 04:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Thought it would be fair to warn this WikiProject that the article for Lollipop Lust Kill is up for deletion as a non-notable band. The nominator and at least one commenting editor haven't heard of the group. I have and voiced my opinion in the AfD, but I couldn't find much online to back up the band's notability. If you think the article should stay, I encourage any LLK / general metal fans to voice your opinion in the AfD discussion. Your opinion will be especially noticed if you can provide any verifiable information that the band meets WP:MUSIC notability criteria. -- H·G ( words/ works) 23:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Heavy metal umlaut is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 22:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
A user created the aforementioned genre and wants it listed in the heavy metal template. Participate in the discussion here: Template talk:Heavymetal#Hipster metal. Prolog 17:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Over a while a large number of album infoboxes have links to review sites like metal observer. This does not consitute a professional review site and as such I have been removing many of these links. Some ppl however seem to think that these should be there. Also note that such sites do not meet WP:WEB and do not have a WP article themselves. Aynway, I guess we'd better come up with a list of sites that do appear to have professional reviews for metal articles.
Professional Reviews:
Not Professional reviews
Spearhead 08:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Is there a specified color for cassete tapes? like darkseagreen for a tribute album. If someone can help me out in this, post a message to my discussion page. Darksteel 13:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
So, if I want to join this project, i just add my name to the list on the page? WereWolf 13:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I notice there isn't much in the way of promoting inline citations within Heavy Metal related articles, so can the Wikiproject somehow place a request for members/fans to actively add inline citations? Inline citations are important in articles and add to their credibility. Simply adding the information to the article is ok, but supporting inline citations are much beneficial. LuciferMorgan 21:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Dream Theater is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 17:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Iron Maiden is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 17:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
On the Wikiproject Page, can we draw up a list of good articles, GA candidates, GA removal candidates and so on, much in the same way we have them for FAs (speaking of FAs, doesn't Marilyn Manson (band) count or do people dispute he's not heavy metal even though Kerrang and Metal Hammer cover him often?)? If we did this list, it may motivate some people to get a heavy metal related article up to GA status. Come on, let's do it! LuciferMorgan 09:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Why do you insist that heavy metal and metal should be capitalized? I'm changing it for now. Michaelas10 12:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
67.185.73.31 has made a number of edits, mainly to Megadeth albums and mainly altering the track times - sometimes only by seconds, but usually quite large amounts (which are easier to spot). I have reverted some of them, but The System Has Failed is trickier because the vandalism occured a while ago and there have been several valid edits since. Thought I'd let you know. Bubba hot ep 09:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
More vandalism overnight - this time to three Slayer albums. Sufficed to say, this IP will now be blocked. Bubba hot ep 09:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
This is a bit pompous isn't it?
"Also, first confirm that a band is really heavy metal and not hardcore, hard rock or alternative music."
Given that it's just about impossible to define these things in a way that satisfies everyone, wouldn't it be easiest to cover any loud guitar music?
I mean, some folks consider Motorhead to be hard rock, like Thin Lizzy or even early Status Quo. Lemmy himself talks about "rock" a whole lot more than he does "metal".
Just a thought. I know nothing. -- kingboyk 17:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I think that since Pornogrind has been deleted, the these two articles should also be deleted and/or merged and redirected to Grindcore since they are even less notable than Pornogrind. Any thoughts?-- Inhumer 17:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm also unsure how to start the whole vote process-- Inhumer 17:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I started one for both, but I'm unsure on how to link the deletion debate page for Cybergrind to the main project page since its the 2nd nom for it.-- Inhumer 22:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I have done something that you posers should have done a long time ago and nominated Christian metal for deletion. Why was it allowed to stay here for so long? The Crying Orc 19:29, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I have moreover now made additions to the Christian metal, Mortification, Horde, and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Nihilist Underground Society pages.
I could not believe no one has started an article for this excellent Japanese doom band...so I did it myself. Anyone who can provide input on Church of Misery, please do so, it would be much appreciated. -- Eastlaw 06:35, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone going to begin using inline citations and remove weasly statements in metal articles they edit? LuciferMorgan 20:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I've had a friendly word with the above user about changing genres on articles. Several of the articles they have recently edited have been the subject of disagreement, and in some cases protection. As a general point, admin help regarding controversial edits can always be found at WP:AN/I for content, banned user and other general problems, WP:AIV for vandalism, and myself at my talk page. Deizio talk 00:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't sure how to add this to the list of metal bands we cover, they are however glam metal to the max and are covered by this project (certainly if black metal is covered i refuse to let this not be covered). I've added the tag to their talk page.-- I'll bring the food 20:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
BNR Metal has been listed for AfD here. This is a great website and I think it deserves an entry in Wikipedia, so let's see if we can keep it here. -- Eastlaw 00:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
...has very similar habits to User:Cronodevir. I've given them a similar note (see above). Deizio talk 19:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
This band is listed as Gothic Doom metal and it has been changed simply to gothic metal before. This band has never ever been anywhere related to doom. While their earlier releases are my slow and atmospheric it doesn't make them a doom metal act. They are simply gothic metal and they should be listed as such. Listing them as gothic-doom is misleading and embarrasingly incorrect. Blackserenity 06:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
This Wikiproject has lost two FAs. Does it want to lose its other 2 also? If it doesn't it needs to use inline cites. LuciferMorgan 19:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I am currently proposing to add a statement on the Disturbed article. The purpose of this statement is to aknowledge the fact that many metal fans do not regard Disturbed as a "true" metal band. I have had some trouble since some users are quite protective of Disturbed's "metal" reputation. It would be helpful if those who agree with the statement give their opinion on the discusion page of the Disturbed article.
For more information: The proposition or talk to me on my talk page.
Thanks in advance for your support, Long live good music,
-- Zouavman Le Zouave 10:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
How about category Heavy metal bands with female lead singers? -- Panu 23:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This page should be protected: The citations keep being replaced with wrong genres, and the page is constantly messed up by unregistered IPs. -- Ryouga 02:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
My sincere thanks to you both -- protecting that article was a serious pain! I hope within a week or two the IPs will realize that vandalizing or removing things they disagree with won't get you anywhere. Again, thanks. -- Ryouga 21:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
In addition: it is interesting to note the same account "MetalForever" removed Lamb of God from the metalcore band page, which was reverted immediately by another user, and this makes up two of the three edits s/he made. *sigh*...It is difficult to keep the metal articles clean with users like that... -- Ryouga 23:42, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Is there actually a such thing as the "big four of thrash metal"? A google search indicates the term was invented here on Wikipedia. I suggest removal of the term from all Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth, and Slayer as per WP:OR. Michaelas10 (Talk) 19:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
That's one that I don't think really needs to be cited, as most people who have any interest in thrash metal have no doubt already heard the term used half a dozen times. I've seen it in tons of unreliable, populist/mainstream publications that don't know jack about metal, and I've heard it simply by reading thrash metal messageboards. So it's not hard to find by any means. Ours18 06:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know what the position is with LyricWiki [6]? I've been seeing links to the site appear on lots of bands' articles, e.g. Iron Maiden and they have boxes that make them appear as though they're part of the wikimedia foundation rather than just an external link. Is there a policy against linking to pages with song lyrics? Timkovski 14:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Just to let you all know, the Megadeth article is now up at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Support metal! Skeletor2112 06:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Myself and Michaelas10 (Talk) have been making big improvements to this article. Added over 40 references, moved sections, deleted sections, removed weasel words etc. But the lead is still too short. To get it to FA or GA i need to improve the lead. I was thinking someone here could help me with that. There is currently 3 paragraphs and one is way too short, and the second may be too short. Any advice, ty. M3tal H3ad 01:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
As part of my cusade against the "genre edit wars" that plague many band articles, I have made the following proposal at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians#Genre wars and the distinguishing of genres and styles.
I would appreciate feedback on this proposal. I am going to push hard for this proposal to be put into action, and I appreciate any supporters in helping me do so. Thank you. --
Reaper
X 01:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I added a pic to the Nightfall page, but I am not sure if it's the right one. Could someone confirm it? Animeguy99 17:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
When classifying bands, especially nebulous nu-metal bands, please do not contribute to edit wars. An article I watch over, Fred Durst, has seen dozens of edit wars regarding whether Durst is a nu metal or rapcore artist, or whether Slipknot is a metal band. I've asked multiple people to not contribute to these sorts of edit wars on this particular page, and I'm sure it's not the only one to see them. - Stick Fig 22:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
As I stated in my initial edit, just saying "the band" when referring to Slipknot is fine, and doesn't result in any disputes....except with you, apparently. Oh well. Don't say I didn't warn you this was going to happen. Ours18 01:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
It isn't "a few people who dislike the music." It's "a whole freakin' lot of people who disagree with the categorization, and might possibly not like the music as well." The mainstream doesn't count as a reliable source. Like I said: just change "the metal band" to "the band" and you won't have this problem. In other words, do what I did. Ours18 02:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Ours. Changing "the metal band" to "the band" does not do anything negative to the article apart from taking away a reason for edit wars. As for your statements about the "average person", I think that the "average person" should not be given information that is disagreed upon. An article cannot be given a bias by erasing a useless word, this is actually taking away any kind of bias. And finally, shouldn't the opinion of metal fans matter? I mean, the article says that Slipknot is a "metal band", so I guess the metal fans are involved in the dispute! I am going to look further into the Fred Durst article in order to make my mind. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. -- Zouavman Le Zouave ( Talk to me! • See my edits!) 10:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I would like to say that I was completely unaware of the edit war when I edited the article. Inhumer 21:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I think band lists should be semi-protected as unregistered users add bands without articles on a regular basis. Inhumer 05:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't think It's truly necessary. I'm currently watching a list of black metal bands, folk metal, power metal, melodic death metal bands, and the list on neo-classical metal. I just remove bands that have no articles; if they have articles, remove them if they don't mention the genre; and remove if a page is up for deletion, or has no notability, like a "garage" band. Just requires a bit of vigilance really. --Dayn 10:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I've revamped the List of heavy metal genres. Feel free to take a look at it, offer suggestions and comments or even improve it. -- Anarchodin 13:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Over the past month Slayer went from this to this. I'm trying to get it up to FA standards and i need your help. If someone has some spare time, giving the article a copy-edit spotting out any grammar errors and such, it would be greatly appreciated, thanks! M3tal H3ad 11:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey, no idea if nu metal should be here, but I've recently been cleaning up lists of metal bands. Removing bands if their articles don't list said genre, etcetera...
Anyway, I'd like to ask some people here about a cleanup for list of nu metal musical groups. Compare to list of black metal bands and list of melodic death metal bands.
For one, I believe that the nu metal list should be formatted in the same manner as the black metal list. Why?
With these reasons, I'd like to change this list to the other two lists etcetera, but I'd like some opinions. I've also removed a big section on that same page about "influential" bands which do not relate to the actual page's purpose.
Any opinions please, before I overhaul the rest? --Dayn 12:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Here. I doubt that this genre is verifiable as existing, and before I stumbled upon it, it was heavily plagued by nü metal groups, such as Slipknot and Mudvayne. I say it should be nominated for deletion. -- Ryouga
While you're at it, might wanna check this out: Groove rock The article has no references and was plagued by mallcore bands (ie. Drowning Pool, Kittie) before I stumbled upon it. Thanks. -- Ryouga 06:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
This page has seen a series of edits by User:Deathrocker filled with personal attacks claiming users are "adding crap" and calling them "extreme metal kiddies" and various other things. The page was made as per an editorial consensus between users, but has been frequently reverted for no reason other than POV from this user. See the Disturbed page and Talk for more info. Please, someone help stop this. -- Ryouga 03:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Show me anywhere, where there are personal attacks calling anybody "extreme metal kiddies", you are commiting slander which is a personal attack. There was no "editorial consensus" on your bias POV as no user other user than me or you have edited the page since the latest revision.... good luck on pining for some attention though. - Deathrocker 03:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
You referred to whoever edited the sentence ( User:PhantomOTO, I believe) as a "bitter death metal or similar fan" [7], called me a troll, and my edits "crap" [8]. And I do not present any bias: Read the citation, it clearly states what I wrote. The other edit changes the "started out as a nu metal band" which I talked about with User:twsx, and we both agree they aren't heavy metal. Also, look at the statement rewording on the talk page: the one PhantomOTO, Inhumer, and twsx, among others, all agreed on. You accused it of being weasel worded, and continue to revert the page even after the cite. -- Ryouga 04:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I know you have been levying for my attention over the last couple of days and all, but please don't flatter yourself. Reverting one genre edit, when somebody made no attempt to discuss it on the talk page is within policy. It seems you are following my edits, however. [11] - Deathrocker
If you have a problem with the current page, bring it to talk without the useless gabbering, and just talk about the exact points of the article that you dislike, without demeaning fans of extreme metal. We both have conflicting ideas/thoughts about heavy metal, and you thinking what you think is 100% doesn't help. The page is fine now, and I realize that it can be adjusted if necessary. Please, continuing this will only waste our time further. I don't see what you find POV about it right now. I'm stating what is said in that cite, and what should be said at that. -- Ryouga 04:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm student of Speech Therapy [Logopedie] in Brazil. I'm researching about 'grunten' or growling vocals [death grunt/death growl] used by Death Metal singers. I would like to know if you have some articles about death growl/growling vocals. I'm have difficulties because many terms exist in english to define this type of voice, while that in portuguese the term exists only is "gutural". However, have no studies about this theme in Brazil. You also can indicate scientific sources about my theme? I will be much grateful.
Send me anything. Any help is valid. I'm very grateful for your attention and I hope your answer.
My e-mail: arianalider@yahoo.com.br
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I've started this project on Heavy metal music and it's sub-genres, to improve the standards of these existing articles and create missing articles. Join the Project by signing your name in the Participant's list.
New Rock Star 16:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Good job on creating this, I've seen several articles that really need the attention of knowledgeable metal fans. I'll help where I can. AidanPryde 19:40, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Somewhere far below this page, you described a fellow user as someone that has a problem with others disagreeing with him. I do not agree. IronChris was not the problem.
You are. You have been behaving in nothing short of an authoritarian manner over pages that you have been treating as your own private property.
Now, it seems to me that I was the one that sparked off the huge discussion on subgenre that had taken place in my absence. An absence that I would like to note was caused my disatisfaction of your self-appointed role here on the metal pages. I wish I had checked in on this page during that time because there is much that I would have like to contribute on. I do not know how many times I have seen someone on some page somewhere expressed a problem with you. On this page alone, one can easily find several instances. Do I need to compile a list of names and incidents? I hope not because I have better things to do with my time. Yet, you have continued to behave as if you are the dominatrix on a BDSM playground.
I would like to propose that something be done about it because I feel that you have been far more of a hindrance than a help towards improving the heavy metal pages on wikipedia. I would like to propose a vote. Specifically, I would like to ask the other members of the heavy metal project team and anyone else interested to vote on whether you should remain on the project team. But I suspect that both you and I can predict the results fairly accurately. What I would like to know is whether such a vote would even matter to you or would you still persist in treating wikipedia as your private playground? Added by user 86.132.129.13, but signed as Anarchodin 12:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
The Edward the Great article under the To Do list allready exists. Should it be removed or moved to a done title? Absolute Zero 22:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Need to fix the link in the Iron Maiden (band) article. I'll remove the article from the to do list.
N R S (talk to me, mail me or award me a barnstar) 04:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Found the two missing Dokken album photos Also, I have done a substantial amount of work on the Chuck Schuldiner page.
-- Johnson542 09:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
i did the article on les binks former drummer of judas priest * Halifax_corey ( talk · contribs)
The Still Hungry ? article is not created. This article is of some other band. I have moved the article to the create list.
Me tal Thunder मेटल थणडर| (Talk) 09:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/Metalsign.jpg/50px-Metalsign.jpg
The metal salute (sign) is done with the index finger and pinky NOT index, pinky, and thumb. That image should be replaced with a correct one. Pasajero 19:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I made a new one. I think it looks a little goofy, but at least its correct. What do you guys think? + Johnson 20:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Whatever makes Leyasu happy. + Johnson 01:12, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I wanted to ask, what is the "WikiProject Heavy Metal notice" for exactly? Does it have to be on every heavy metal music related article? Also, I just created the pages for Malmonde (a french electro-industrial-death metal band) and Axel Rudi Pell. I was very surprised to find that the latter wasn't already there. It would need a bit of expanding though, and I didn't know if I should create two pages, one for the musician, and one for the band... Sounds a bit too much so I just made one. Also, the stub on André Matos should be expanded, after all, he is quite an influencial and famous vocalist (Viper, Angra, Shaaman). When I get time I'll start a page for Mike Terrana (Rage, Yngwie J. Malmsteen, Axel Rudi Pell, Metalium, Squealer...). Cheers -- IronChris 18:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Erm... my question remains however, where is the "WikiProject Heavy Metal notice" supposed to go? It's not very clear to me, is it just for articles initiated by members of WikiProject Metal, or does it have to be placed on the talk page of every Heavy Metal group article? -- IronChris 23:06, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
The List of heavy metal bands is in dire need of a clean up. As Fuzzypeg states on the talk page, "many of these band names are wikified, but the wikilinks take you to the wrong place" and many bands in the list don't have an article, some of them probably shouldn't be there anyway (no discography, etc.). It also needs a better lay out, maybe a similar one to the artist list on the industrial metal page could be used, it's very neat; apparently it's used extensively on the german wikipedia. I think it's an important page, and should be brought up to Wikipedia standards (which it certainly doesn't reach in its present state). What do you think should be done? -- IronChris 02:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I do not know about anybody else but I find the list of metal subgenres to be rather messy and unhelpful. The infobox in the main Heavy Metal article lists 13 subgenres of metal and 10 fusion genres. Browsing around, however, would lead one to encounter other infobox that expands the list to include such entries as "melodic death metal" and "blackened death metal" (shouldn't they be covered under death metal itself?) as well as other entries such as Celtic metal and Oriental metal. On the Folk Metal article, someone has even listed a genre known as Pirate Metal.
My objection here is that there are really only a handful of metal subgenres and yet by browsing through wikipedia, one might get the impression that there are more than thirty different metal subgenres. As it is now, I see six different concepts that are being grouped together under the umbrella term of subgenre.
Group 1: The primary style in which the vocals, guitars, drums and bass are being played. Black. Death. Power. Thrash. Doom. Glam (or Pop). Classic. These are metal subgenres that stand alone.
Group 2: The secondary style that is layered on top, over or fused with the primary style. Gothic. Folk. Progressive. None of these subgenres stand alone. A band combines the stylistic elements of folk music, gothic ethos or progressive aspirations with their primary genre - death, doom, power, etc.
Group 3: The manner or approach in which the above groups are brought about. Symphonic. Avant-garde. Neo-classical. Tech (or Math). Speed. These are not subgenres of metal but rather a stylistic preference amongst a diverse array of bands from different subgenres. Some fans who are drawn to a particular stylistic preference might have a desire to label it as a subgenre. You can find bands in the power, black and gothic subgenres using a symphonic approach. You can find bands in the black, gothic or doom subgenres using an avant-garde approach. You can find bands in the power, death or progressive genres using a tech approach. An analogy would be the choice of a first person, second person or third person narrative or approach in a book. I find such terms as Dark Metal and Extreme Metal to be rather redundant but if people insist, they can fit into this group too.
Group 4: Fusion with music outside the family of metal. Funk. Industrial. Grindcore. Alternative. Etc.
Group 5: Regional scenes that develop a particular style unto their own. Gothenburg, NWOBHM, Bay Area, Florida. I believe Oriental metal comes under this group as well.
Group 6: Distinction arising from non-musical consideration. Christian metal. Viking metal. And if someone really wants it, pirate metal.
I believe it would be more sensible to distinguish the above groups from one another as follows. I am referring particularly to the infobox.
Subgenres: Group 1 & 2
Fusion genres: Group 4
Common Stylistic Approaches: Group 3
Regional Scenes: Group 5
Lyrical Themes & Images: Group 6.
This is merely a suggestion to clean up something that I personally find to be rather messy and muddy. I will leave it to you lot in the project team to discuss the merits and lack of with regards to my proposal. Cheers. -- Anarchodin 10:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I've spent some time editing the Stoner rock / metal article, which Leyasu / Ley Shade does not deem suitable for inclusion on heavy metal lists and templates. That's being discussed on a different page, and my intended involvement in this project goes a lot deeper than stoner metal, but it's another case in point. Stoner metal gets over 370,000 googles so dismissing it as a made-up genre doesn't cut it. The only claim that can really be made is that you don't regard it as "true metal" - fine as an opinion but it becomes POV when you start deleting references to it as a sub-genre of metal without consensus. Wikipedia is never going to be the last bastion of true metal and trying to exclude styles or labels you don't agree with is a losing battle. Every genre was "made-up" once but this 2006, the face of what is considered "metal" might have changed, and we need to deal with that. I'm as much a fan of the "true metal" genres as anyone, and I hope to concentrate on encylopedia-building and getting people involved, rather than the minutiae of labelling. Deizio 13:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
What we needs is guidelines for genre inclusion (see also WP:MUS and the talk page). Further we need to fix the list of actual heavy metal (sub-)genres in the list of heavy metal genres and get a consensus really that this is it. From thereon we can start fixing the actual genre articles, deleting with this consesus in mind all sub-genre articles, merging them where necessary.
See Still Hungry, and Still Hungry. + Johnson 04:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I just wanted to mention that I made a category for the metalhead subculture! If you would like to join, please go here
Category:Metalhead Wikipedians
If this is irrelevant on this talk page then please feel free to delete. Thanks! ( Wikieizor 11:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC))
This area is for discussion of the core genres in relation to the poll. All previous comments that have not been votes are here. Please feel free to debate the genre in its subposition below. Ley Shade
needs a complte rewrite, top to bottom. Big in albania 11:24, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
?! this is an oxymoron
I'd say this style is just a combination of Gothic rock/punk that started first with metal elements. I'd say it is as much a core genre as metalcore... which is. Daevin
Building on an idea Ley Shade advanced above, is seems sensible that Template:Heavymetal will contain only the "core genres" - ie the ones "kept" from the poll, while the List of heavy metal bands should have 3 sections; Core (ie the ones on the template), minor (genres with a high degree of "distinct"-ness but not strictly core, and the cross-references, which can contain more or less anything with metal roots and a decent article behind it.
If this is acceptable, then a "keep" vote above is still for the core genres that will go on the template. It is also fine to vote "Minor" or "Cross-ref" instead of "delete", although as not everyone might feel like changing their votes we can sort out these two sections in the next stage of this process. Thoughts? Deizio 11:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I am not particularly interested in music, but I've noticed a lot of switching around colors on the Infobox, and creating new, inappropriate tempaltes (such as template:Trashmetal, which I subst'ed). In any case, any change in infobox colors should be worked out with the Music genre WikiProject, which maintains a list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres/Colours. Circeus 19:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Im calling attention to the above article. The article is currently the target for much vandalism, especially from the user Danteferno, who has been placed on 1R a day and has currently claimed ownership of the article and has forbiddon any and all users involved in this project from editing it. I would request that members of the project monitor this article closely for changes, and revert and clean up as and where neccesary. Ley Shade 12:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
It would help greatly if new voters, particularly if new to the project, relatively new to Wikipedia and / or when voting against the "tide" of already cast votes, could give a rationale to support their vote which demonstrates understanding of what we are attempting to do with this poll and the heavy metal list and template, and the definitions of "core" (indicated by a "keep" vote), "minor" and "cross-reference". Also, it should be intuitive that participating in this poll indicates a willingness to abide by the results of consensus built by the poll. Deizio 13:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
What's going on over on the black metal talk page is just ridiculous. I know we haven't yet agreed on what is a major, minor and cross-ref genre, but we also need to reach an agreement on what subgenres and sub-subgenres can be included on Wikipedia and which can't.
Discussions over "pirate metal" illustrate this. Despite the 14.100 google hits, pirate metal is not considered a valid subgenre by some, whereas others would like to have a section on it in Wikipedia (for my part, I have no strong opinion on it, though I tend to think it is not notable enough by number of bands).
The Black Metal page is facing daily reverts by those who think "faggoth", "troll metal", "war metal" or "cyber metal" should have their own section as a subgenre, and those who oppose this. We cannot keep on like this, the discussions are not leading anywhere and we need to reach a concensus to stop these excessive reverts and avoid edit wars.
I propose that discussions about the validity of sugenres should all be grouped here. I will start a list of controversial genres and sections, and everyone can put their opinion. I cannot stress enough the importance of stopping this ridiculous reverting process, and the inconclusive discussions that are scattered all over the talk pages of different articles.
If a subgenre seems controversial, just add it here and lets discuss it all together. Don't just delete it leaving a 3 word edit summary, this will just lead to more reverts and more frustration. -- IronChris 21:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
All those silly subgenres are very much of out control on WP. Most should be deleted where some information may be kept in one of the "core genres". Regional scenes should be merged either into a general regional metal scenes article or just into their core genre article. Spearhead 22:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
==-- X y l y X | (talk) 18:11, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Now you have also asked me why its notable? Well I can't speak for the Pakistan Metal but in Iran Rock bands do not get to do live acts and recently a friend of mine was sent to jail for a month and had to pay £2000 (Thats almost a working year's worth of money for students in Iran where it is 2,500,000 rials) for playing loud (metal) music in his car (in Iran). Now if you knew what this scene means to those people you wouldn't ask for its notability, it's almost a case of exercising human rights for some in these 'Islamic' countries.
Metal Archives lists 24 bands for Iran most being Black or death metal, and if you knew what they have to go through to release material over there, you wouldn't ask for their notibility. -- - K a s h Talk | email 18:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I called this article for AFD. As said above if we include this as an article we need hundreds of more articles or regional black metal, death metal, doom metal and whatever metal that have basically no content and anything far from notability. Anyway, it was voted to be merged into something, either the black metal article or pakistani music (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistani black metal). As to keep this information the BM article was chosen as a placeholder, until we decided what to do with it and this is actually precisely what we are trying to do. I don't this information is required in WP, nevertheless an article or section about the status or heavy metal music (in general, not BM otherwise, we'd have many article with pretty much the same content) describing the metal position in islamic countries or countries with a oppressive regime (eg. Heavy metal in countries with an oppressive regime or Heavy metal in Islamic countries with dozens of redirects linking such regional scenes to it). Such information is far more interesting and ecyclopedic than listing a bunch of bands that hardly anyone has ever heard of. Spearhead 20:20, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Please lets not get anal about it - I have a fear that we will decend into farce! -- PopUpPirate 00:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC) To know what is metal and what isn't metal check this page www.metal-archives.com , its very strict -- Neo139 06:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
As you can see I'm beginning to close the debates above. I'm starting with the ones clearly marked as Keep, as core genres. I propose leaving the others open for a further week, hence I certainly don't anticipate making any controversial decisions at this stage. Deizio 16:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
First off, im back, you can all worship me now xD
Second: I noticed someone setup another set of polls. Just to let you know, the polls are completely redundant. Things have been moved and merged and kept after AFD, thus you cannot 'delete' them, at all. Period. Unless you all want banning for AFD violation. That means, you can move them within reason, but NO information must be lost without very good cause. This applies to: Faggoth/Pakistani Stuff/Troll Metal/War Metal. That means, your whole voting process was made redunant.
Thirdly im moving the vote on core genres, and reopening all of them. All previous votes shall be kept and a time limit for ALL of them, will be induced. Ill also personally message every user thats part of this project to alert them of the poll.
You people just fall apart without me :P
Anything else anyone wants to ask, drop down my talk page. Literally, drop down it - its more fun than climbin up it xD Ley Shade 06:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
On To do list subsection Expansion Album articles Perseverance (album) by Hatebreed is done so... DELETE it from the list, and you could add new albums to the list or... ( Reply here) Death2 03:17, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I find it amazing the number of new members in just two weeks. As soon as we started all these hardcore changes, the membership probably more than doubled. I guess we pissed a lot of people off, and they said "if we can't beat them, we will join them!" I had to take a wikibreak there was so much anger going around. + Johnson 06:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
After a few days away from WP I find Ley Shade has decided to reopen the closed genre debates, moved the poll to a different page and changed / created the rules. This is getting far too complicated and new people voting don't understand what they are voting for. If those who had been involved from the beginning could have reached a common position we could have tried to enforce it. 10 out of 10 for telling project members about the poll, much less for making a useful contribution.
The new poll is not linked from the project page or this discussion page, until now. The list of topics above has seen some things removed, others left, others partially removed and should have been removed completely. The idea to vote major / minor / cross ref has been unilaterally binned by Ley Shade as part of a new selection of voting rules that have appeared from nowhere. Some votes were made under the old system and don't make sense now.
"You people just fall apart without me", hmm, things might have actually started to get done without you. This could just succeed in screwing up all the work we put in, and you could be left with a template full of cross-references. Well done Ley, I look forward to seeing what kind of formula you apply when closing the debates, as I'm sure you'll be insisting on taking full control over the outcomes. Looks like some clear cut answers just turned into a lot of "no consensus" because of a flood of new voters unsure what they're voting for (check out some of the comments on the new poll). AfD standards will have to apply and everyone will be watching. This is not the time to start creating future differences of opinion, if I had been around when you decided to do this (or if you had attempted to float new ideas before plunging in) I have a suspicion things would have been better in the long run. Now we'll just have to wait and see... Deizio 23:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm sure most of you know of the recent block(s) of Ley Shade, and it seems s/he is retaliating. Any edit I make to anything, or any page my name is on in recent edits, was vandalised or vandalistically reverted by 86.143.126.71, likely User:Leyasu in retaliation. Please look out for any vandalistic edits by this or ANY other anonymous IP's targeted at articles I have edited. Thank you all very much. -- Ryouga 23:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, User:Leyasu and I have come to an agreement on which we will both discuss the following articles and decide the appropriate edits necessary:
* 18:54, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) The Adversary (album) (rev per leyasu) * 18:53, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) City of Evil (rev per leyasu) (top) * 18:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Black metal (rev per leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) ReLoad (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Black Metal (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Welcome to Hell (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Painkiller (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) S&M (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:52, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) At War with Satan (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:51, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Slayer (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:51, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Ace of Spades (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:50, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Cacophony (band) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:50, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Helloween (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Load (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Metal Black (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Chimaira (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:49, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Possessed (album) (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:48, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Speed metal (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:46, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Children of Bodom (Rv per Leyasu) (top) * 19:46, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) List of heavy metal genres (Rv per leyasu) (top) * 19:45, 16 April 2006 (hist) (diff) Venom (band) (rv per leyasu) (top)
The reason I am posting this here is so other users can see what edits have/are being/been made. Thus allowing other users to contribute their thoughts and opinions on what should be done. I am doing this so we have more than 2 heads working on these articles, and thus everyone's views can be considered while trying to construct better articles. Thanks -- Ryouga 05:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I have closed the above discussion. Thanks to everyone who participated. Unfortunately, I am afraid that it was all in vain. Indeed, User:Leyasu seems to have decided what should and what shouldn't be considered a valid subgenre.
Let's take the faggoth section for example. Everyone seems to agree here that this section is ridiculous, as shown by the frequent deletions of the section and the 7 unanimous votes in favour of its permanent deletion. But User:Leyasu has apparently decided to keep it, reverting any deletions as vandalism. Well, if that's isn't a clear concensus, I don't know what is! 1 against 7 (8 counting Ryouga)! Good job, very honest.
Oh yes, Leyasu is going to point out that there was an AfD for this section, that everyone can see here. Let me just say that it was the most inconclusive AfD I've ever seen, in which 4 people voted including the writer of the section (probably because no one knew the AfDs were taking place anyway; I certainly didn't), against 7 votes here. But still, Leyasu seems to think he's the owner of every metal-related article and can do what he likes even if it goes against the general concensus.
As for war metal, there appears to have been no discussion, it was just put on the BM page in a rather random fashion, regardless of its notability (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/War metal).
For the fun of it (as nothing can be done as long as Leyasu disagrees), here are the results of the polls :
As for me, I find these disagreements and bickering tiring. Even the sensible discussions are useless as long as there will be some people who think they can decide everything for themselves regardless of the opinion of other people. Deizio illustrates this point perfectly in his message above. I don't want to go on with all this, it's just too annoying and nothing is coming of it anyway. So I will no longer try to edit pages related to heavy metal genres. The black metal page is a very sad sight, but all I've got to say is let it rot, if that's how things are going to be from now on.
I don't know how I feel about leaving "in charge" someone who has been blocked 10 times in 3 months for various offences, but whatever, I'm tired of fighting. Good luck. -- IronChris | (talk) 19:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I rectified my message. -- IronChris | (talk) 22:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I believe the anon IP(s) have already requested a block extension, so I guess we'll wait and see what's done about that. I seriously hope we can clear up these metal pages some day without all the reverts -- Ryouga 00:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This article was pretty messy / misleading. I edited it as I could, but I don't exactly know 100% about it. So check it out and please feel free and edit accordingly. -- Ryouga 01:42, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
The only "real" subgenres that I know of that are classed as math/tech metal are 'technical death metal', 'mathcore' and 'technical metalcore'. other than that math and tech metal are not subgenres, which is what I tried to incorporate in the article. but i myself am not an expert on it, so anything anyone knows will be helpful. -- Ryouga 16:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I know that BOTH 'tech metal' and 'math metal' are not subgenres, as Ley said, but I know that Mathcore, Technical Death Metal and Technical Metalcore are. If wanted for AFD that's ok with me, since Tech Death Metal is in Death Metal article and Mathcore has its own. I dunno if Tech Metalcore is mentioned in metalcore, though. But do keep in mind it took me a while to get that info and fix up what was before a near-terrible article, so if possible, cleanup would be much preferred. -- Ryouga 20:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
As most of my friends consider me an expert on the genre, I'm going to edit the page completely. I will be changing it to Technical Death Metal and editing appropriatly. I don't know what to do with all of the metalcore/mathcore references. A lot of the bands considered technical could fit in deathcore, mathcore, noisecore, technical metalcore or (my preferenece) progressive metalcore. I'll keep those sections on the tech death page until we/I can figure out what to do with it. Is there a hardcore project that would organize those random terms or should we?-- Daevin 05:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I re-did the entire page. I'm going to go through all the bands to edit that a bit more and add band that are missing. I'll be in contact with the punk project people to see if they want to reorganize the core subgenres cause it looks like a complete mess. Once that is cleaned up I will get rid of most all references to metalcore. If anyone wants to re-open a tech metal page, I'd be happy to edit it but the page looked really bad because it would use vague references to prog metal, refer to messhuggah's math metal and overall didn't make any sense. I think my re-do should look more official.
I'm now trying to find any refferences to tech metal to edit those as well.-- Daevin 19:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I'll admit I don't know what you mean by a disambiguation page, however as I develop the article further, it will be clear the list of bands is rather large and will continue to grow as bands like Necrophagist and Beneath the Massacre grow in popularity. It is mentioned on the death metal article and is growing, it is probably about 5 years behind the melodic death metal genre. If we want to rework the death metal article, I wouldn't be opposed to merging most of the article, in it's own section, with the 10 subgenres of death metal. I think the articl would need to remain though because of the amount of bands there are that specifically play that style and none other.
Either way, tech metal is a term that isnt a subgenre and applies to all tech death bands and a few other bands here and there. Maybe the disambiguation page is the answer, but the "tech metal" article didn't make any sense.-- Daevin 04:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
What to do with this article Iranian metal? I copied most of the content to Heavy metal in Islamic countries; altho it barely contains any content. It went to a farce AFD (was voted keep as "if it is that hard to play metal there, it must be notalbe"). Better redirect the Iranian metal page to Heavy metal in Islamic countries. Spearhead 21:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Please tell your contributer Spearhead to stop trying to get topics deleted and do as he pleases.
Your Metal project seems like its going down the usual road, whats next, deleting Slipknot because its not true metal?!!
This user first tried to delete pages such as Iranian metal and Pakistani black metal, since he wasn't successful, it resulted in yet more uncomfortable actions such as Pakistani black metal being merged with Black metal.
Now he has decided to redirect pages such as Iranian metal to Heavy metal in Islamic countries without any discussion in the article's talk page. His excuse is that there was a discussion here (I can see no discussion regarding the metal in Iran in particular, and the Islamic country idea seems to be only of his own).
I ask you to tell your members not to do such things without discussing them first in the article's talk pages, and if possible contacting the article's contributers first. You can't just decide for everything here without consulting the contributers of the pages. I had raised attention to the topic just here yet generalisation carried on and actions were done without much discussion. Black metal in isle of man section on Black metal article is different to Metal scene of a country which obviously not many people here know about. -- - K a s h Talk | email 21:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Lets not forget that if anyone here is knowledgeable about metal music in Iran, its me here, and I ask you to keep out of that article until I get some time to work on it. -- - K a s h Talk | email 22:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
As we seem to be going through genre articles to put a bit of order at the moment, I would like to know what other people think about the article epic metal. It seems to me to be very badly written, lacks references and overlaps greatly with other genres. Something has to be done, I would even consider an AfD as the article is very confusing in its present state and doesn't seem to add much, but the result would probably be keep (as usual). What do you guys think about it? -- IronChris | (talk) 03:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
If anyone here has the time, please check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres/Assessment and update it with the status of metal related genres. This is being done in conjunction with WP:WVWP to try and get genre articles up to 1.0 standards. I've made a start by adding some metal genre articles but any help would be appreciated.
P.S. You might want to look at starting your own WikiProject Metal article assessment for related articles as it's a great way to keep track of what's needing work done. -- MilkMiruku 01:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
To many articles, some one has recently been adding Metal Observer reviews in the infobox. (E.g. see Testimony of the Ancients) The site itself does not have a WP article. I think that these are link spam and hence I usually remove them. What do you think? Spearhead 17:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
ATTENTION EVERYONE: June 6, 2006 (6/6/06) is National Day of Slayer. Please plan your schedules accordingly.
Website: http://www.nationaldayofslayer.org/
-- Eastlaw 22:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
The poll has closed, the results are as follows:
Keep, to be listed on Template:Heavymetal;
Further debate required, and not to be added at this time;
Everything else has been closed as delete.
As such, the template will be edited to reflect this consensus. Items not in the keep list can be removed from the template if re-added, with the rationale:
"Removing non-core subgenre, per results of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Metal/Poll]]. Please raise questions and suggestions at the [[Template talk:Heavymetal|template talk page]] and the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Metal|WikiProject Metal talk page]]."
Obviously, not everyone backed every winner - we have all gained and lost genres we like in this process, which is a design feature of building consensus. Any WP:HMM member or metal contributor is welcome to put any sub-genre up for debate on this talk page, provided they have a good-faith reason to do so. A template featuring the deleted sub-genres could also be created, perhaps Template:Heavy metal sub-genres.
I would also invite contributors to add their support by endorsing the findings of the poll. Strong endorsement will aid effective enforcement, and allow us to make this process mean something. Deizio 02:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Can someone tell me what is the conventional way for writing song and album titles? Should they be in italics, quotation marks, etc.? Is there a page about this (I couldn't find one)? If not maybe we should have a section about it on the main page (and if there is a page we could add a link on the main page). Thanks. Iron C hris | (talk) 23:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
How about setting up something alike Wikipedia:Wikiproject Horror/Collaboration of the month. Spearhead 18:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone here heard of these guys? If so, do you dig them as much as I do? I wrote an artcle about Mind Over Four and I would appreciate your additions/edits/feedback. -- Eastlaw 05:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Who put that Nu-metal needed to be merged with alternative rock. They are most certainly not the same thing. DG X 22:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Have you noticed all the metal articles being continually spammed with a link to metallian.com? Sometimes they link to a metallian page that’s actually about the band, but usually it’s just metallian.com. I have alerted an admin about this. David Hain 04:25, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, could I have some suggestions and aid for my hard rock wikiproject. DavidJJJ 17:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to remind everybody that there has been an endeavour to start a Metal Collaboration of the Month, and for the moment very few people have voted to nominate an article. If anyone is interested, please take a look at the Nominees and cast your vote. Thanks. Iron C hris | (talk) 20:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm dubious concerning User:Walri's recent edits to Heavy metal music, bu i know nothing of the topic, can somebody please have a look? Circeus 00:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Man, there's alot bands there; it's a bit daunting. Maybe we could trim the list down some...to say 5 or so and create a page for what's been edited out. Then when an article gets created from the main page move it out of the list there and replace it with one from the queue on the newly created page. maxcap 18:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I hope you like the new changes. -- Neo139 04:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Thought it would be fair to warn this WikiProject that the article for Lollipop Lust Kill is up for deletion as a non-notable band. The nominator and at least one commenting editor haven't heard of the group. I have and voiced my opinion in the AfD, but I couldn't find much online to back up the band's notability. If you think the article should stay, I encourage any LLK / general metal fans to voice your opinion in the AfD discussion. Your opinion will be especially noticed if you can provide any verifiable information that the band meets WP:MUSIC notability criteria. -- H·G ( words/ works) 23:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Heavy metal umlaut is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 22:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
A user created the aforementioned genre and wants it listed in the heavy metal template. Participate in the discussion here: Template talk:Heavymetal#Hipster metal. Prolog 17:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Over a while a large number of album infoboxes have links to review sites like metal observer. This does not consitute a professional review site and as such I have been removing many of these links. Some ppl however seem to think that these should be there. Also note that such sites do not meet WP:WEB and do not have a WP article themselves. Aynway, I guess we'd better come up with a list of sites that do appear to have professional reviews for metal articles.
Professional Reviews:
Not Professional reviews
Spearhead 08:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Is there a specified color for cassete tapes? like darkseagreen for a tribute album. If someone can help me out in this, post a message to my discussion page. Darksteel 13:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
So, if I want to join this project, i just add my name to the list on the page? WereWolf 13:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I notice there isn't much in the way of promoting inline citations within Heavy Metal related articles, so can the Wikiproject somehow place a request for members/fans to actively add inline citations? Inline citations are important in articles and add to their credibility. Simply adding the information to the article is ok, but supporting inline citations are much beneficial. LuciferMorgan 21:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Dream Theater is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 17:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Iron Maiden is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 17:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
On the Wikiproject Page, can we draw up a list of good articles, GA candidates, GA removal candidates and so on, much in the same way we have them for FAs (speaking of FAs, doesn't Marilyn Manson (band) count or do people dispute he's not heavy metal even though Kerrang and Metal Hammer cover him often?)? If we did this list, it may motivate some people to get a heavy metal related article up to GA status. Come on, let's do it! LuciferMorgan 09:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Why do you insist that heavy metal and metal should be capitalized? I'm changing it for now. Michaelas10 12:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
67.185.73.31 has made a number of edits, mainly to Megadeth albums and mainly altering the track times - sometimes only by seconds, but usually quite large amounts (which are easier to spot). I have reverted some of them, but The System Has Failed is trickier because the vandalism occured a while ago and there have been several valid edits since. Thought I'd let you know. Bubba hot ep 09:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
More vandalism overnight - this time to three Slayer albums. Sufficed to say, this IP will now be blocked. Bubba hot ep 09:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
This is a bit pompous isn't it?
"Also, first confirm that a band is really heavy metal and not hardcore, hard rock or alternative music."
Given that it's just about impossible to define these things in a way that satisfies everyone, wouldn't it be easiest to cover any loud guitar music?
I mean, some folks consider Motorhead to be hard rock, like Thin Lizzy or even early Status Quo. Lemmy himself talks about "rock" a whole lot more than he does "metal".
Just a thought. I know nothing. -- kingboyk 17:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I think that since Pornogrind has been deleted, the these two articles should also be deleted and/or merged and redirected to Grindcore since they are even less notable than Pornogrind. Any thoughts?-- Inhumer 17:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm also unsure how to start the whole vote process-- Inhumer 17:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I started one for both, but I'm unsure on how to link the deletion debate page for Cybergrind to the main project page since its the 2nd nom for it.-- Inhumer 22:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I have done something that you posers should have done a long time ago and nominated Christian metal for deletion. Why was it allowed to stay here for so long? The Crying Orc 19:29, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I have moreover now made additions to the Christian metal, Mortification, Horde, and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Nihilist Underground Society pages.
I could not believe no one has started an article for this excellent Japanese doom band...so I did it myself. Anyone who can provide input on Church of Misery, please do so, it would be much appreciated. -- Eastlaw 06:35, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone going to begin using inline citations and remove weasly statements in metal articles they edit? LuciferMorgan 20:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I've had a friendly word with the above user about changing genres on articles. Several of the articles they have recently edited have been the subject of disagreement, and in some cases protection. As a general point, admin help regarding controversial edits can always be found at WP:AN/I for content, banned user and other general problems, WP:AIV for vandalism, and myself at my talk page. Deizio talk 00:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't sure how to add this to the list of metal bands we cover, they are however glam metal to the max and are covered by this project (certainly if black metal is covered i refuse to let this not be covered). I've added the tag to their talk page.-- I'll bring the food 20:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
BNR Metal has been listed for AfD here. This is a great website and I think it deserves an entry in Wikipedia, so let's see if we can keep it here. -- Eastlaw 00:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
...has very similar habits to User:Cronodevir. I've given them a similar note (see above). Deizio talk 19:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
This band is listed as Gothic Doom metal and it has been changed simply to gothic metal before. This band has never ever been anywhere related to doom. While their earlier releases are my slow and atmospheric it doesn't make them a doom metal act. They are simply gothic metal and they should be listed as such. Listing them as gothic-doom is misleading and embarrasingly incorrect. Blackserenity 06:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
This Wikiproject has lost two FAs. Does it want to lose its other 2 also? If it doesn't it needs to use inline cites. LuciferMorgan 19:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I am currently proposing to add a statement on the Disturbed article. The purpose of this statement is to aknowledge the fact that many metal fans do not regard Disturbed as a "true" metal band. I have had some trouble since some users are quite protective of Disturbed's "metal" reputation. It would be helpful if those who agree with the statement give their opinion on the discusion page of the Disturbed article.
For more information: The proposition or talk to me on my talk page.
Thanks in advance for your support, Long live good music,
-- Zouavman Le Zouave 10:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
How about category Heavy metal bands with female lead singers? -- Panu 23:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This page should be protected: The citations keep being replaced with wrong genres, and the page is constantly messed up by unregistered IPs. -- Ryouga 02:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
My sincere thanks to you both -- protecting that article was a serious pain! I hope within a week or two the IPs will realize that vandalizing or removing things they disagree with won't get you anywhere. Again, thanks. -- Ryouga 21:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
In addition: it is interesting to note the same account "MetalForever" removed Lamb of God from the metalcore band page, which was reverted immediately by another user, and this makes up two of the three edits s/he made. *sigh*...It is difficult to keep the metal articles clean with users like that... -- Ryouga 23:42, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Is there actually a such thing as the "big four of thrash metal"? A google search indicates the term was invented here on Wikipedia. I suggest removal of the term from all Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth, and Slayer as per WP:OR. Michaelas10 (Talk) 19:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
That's one that I don't think really needs to be cited, as most people who have any interest in thrash metal have no doubt already heard the term used half a dozen times. I've seen it in tons of unreliable, populist/mainstream publications that don't know jack about metal, and I've heard it simply by reading thrash metal messageboards. So it's not hard to find by any means. Ours18 06:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know what the position is with LyricWiki [6]? I've been seeing links to the site appear on lots of bands' articles, e.g. Iron Maiden and they have boxes that make them appear as though they're part of the wikimedia foundation rather than just an external link. Is there a policy against linking to pages with song lyrics? Timkovski 14:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Just to let you all know, the Megadeth article is now up at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Support metal! Skeletor2112 06:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Myself and Michaelas10 (Talk) have been making big improvements to this article. Added over 40 references, moved sections, deleted sections, removed weasel words etc. But the lead is still too short. To get it to FA or GA i need to improve the lead. I was thinking someone here could help me with that. There is currently 3 paragraphs and one is way too short, and the second may be too short. Any advice, ty. M3tal H3ad 01:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
As part of my cusade against the "genre edit wars" that plague many band articles, I have made the following proposal at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians#Genre wars and the distinguishing of genres and styles.
I would appreciate feedback on this proposal. I am going to push hard for this proposal to be put into action, and I appreciate any supporters in helping me do so. Thank you. --
Reaper
X 01:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I added a pic to the Nightfall page, but I am not sure if it's the right one. Could someone confirm it? Animeguy99 17:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
When classifying bands, especially nebulous nu-metal bands, please do not contribute to edit wars. An article I watch over, Fred Durst, has seen dozens of edit wars regarding whether Durst is a nu metal or rapcore artist, or whether Slipknot is a metal band. I've asked multiple people to not contribute to these sorts of edit wars on this particular page, and I'm sure it's not the only one to see them. - Stick Fig 22:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
As I stated in my initial edit, just saying "the band" when referring to Slipknot is fine, and doesn't result in any disputes....except with you, apparently. Oh well. Don't say I didn't warn you this was going to happen. Ours18 01:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
It isn't "a few people who dislike the music." It's "a whole freakin' lot of people who disagree with the categorization, and might possibly not like the music as well." The mainstream doesn't count as a reliable source. Like I said: just change "the metal band" to "the band" and you won't have this problem. In other words, do what I did. Ours18 02:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Ours. Changing "the metal band" to "the band" does not do anything negative to the article apart from taking away a reason for edit wars. As for your statements about the "average person", I think that the "average person" should not be given information that is disagreed upon. An article cannot be given a bias by erasing a useless word, this is actually taking away any kind of bias. And finally, shouldn't the opinion of metal fans matter? I mean, the article says that Slipknot is a "metal band", so I guess the metal fans are involved in the dispute! I am going to look further into the Fred Durst article in order to make my mind. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. -- Zouavman Le Zouave ( Talk to me! • See my edits!) 10:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I would like to say that I was completely unaware of the edit war when I edited the article. Inhumer 21:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I think band lists should be semi-protected as unregistered users add bands without articles on a regular basis. Inhumer 05:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't think It's truly necessary. I'm currently watching a list of black metal bands, folk metal, power metal, melodic death metal bands, and the list on neo-classical metal. I just remove bands that have no articles; if they have articles, remove them if they don't mention the genre; and remove if a page is up for deletion, or has no notability, like a "garage" band. Just requires a bit of vigilance really. --Dayn 10:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I've revamped the List of heavy metal genres. Feel free to take a look at it, offer suggestions and comments or even improve it. -- Anarchodin 13:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Over the past month Slayer went from this to this. I'm trying to get it up to FA standards and i need your help. If someone has some spare time, giving the article a copy-edit spotting out any grammar errors and such, it would be greatly appreciated, thanks! M3tal H3ad 11:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey, no idea if nu metal should be here, but I've recently been cleaning up lists of metal bands. Removing bands if their articles don't list said genre, etcetera...
Anyway, I'd like to ask some people here about a cleanup for list of nu metal musical groups. Compare to list of black metal bands and list of melodic death metal bands.
For one, I believe that the nu metal list should be formatted in the same manner as the black metal list. Why?
With these reasons, I'd like to change this list to the other two lists etcetera, but I'd like some opinions. I've also removed a big section on that same page about "influential" bands which do not relate to the actual page's purpose.
Any opinions please, before I overhaul the rest? --Dayn 12:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Here. I doubt that this genre is verifiable as existing, and before I stumbled upon it, it was heavily plagued by nü metal groups, such as Slipknot and Mudvayne. I say it should be nominated for deletion. -- Ryouga
While you're at it, might wanna check this out: Groove rock The article has no references and was plagued by mallcore bands (ie. Drowning Pool, Kittie) before I stumbled upon it. Thanks. -- Ryouga 06:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
This page has seen a series of edits by User:Deathrocker filled with personal attacks claiming users are "adding crap" and calling them "extreme metal kiddies" and various other things. The page was made as per an editorial consensus between users, but has been frequently reverted for no reason other than POV from this user. See the Disturbed page and Talk for more info. Please, someone help stop this. -- Ryouga 03:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Show me anywhere, where there are personal attacks calling anybody "extreme metal kiddies", you are commiting slander which is a personal attack. There was no "editorial consensus" on your bias POV as no user other user than me or you have edited the page since the latest revision.... good luck on pining for some attention though. - Deathrocker 03:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
You referred to whoever edited the sentence ( User:PhantomOTO, I believe) as a "bitter death metal or similar fan" [7], called me a troll, and my edits "crap" [8]. And I do not present any bias: Read the citation, it clearly states what I wrote. The other edit changes the "started out as a nu metal band" which I talked about with User:twsx, and we both agree they aren't heavy metal. Also, look at the statement rewording on the talk page: the one PhantomOTO, Inhumer, and twsx, among others, all agreed on. You accused it of being weasel worded, and continue to revert the page even after the cite. -- Ryouga 04:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I know you have been levying for my attention over the last couple of days and all, but please don't flatter yourself. Reverting one genre edit, when somebody made no attempt to discuss it on the talk page is within policy. It seems you are following my edits, however. [11] - Deathrocker
If you have a problem with the current page, bring it to talk without the useless gabbering, and just talk about the exact points of the article that you dislike, without demeaning fans of extreme metal. We both have conflicting ideas/thoughts about heavy metal, and you thinking what you think is 100% doesn't help. The page is fine now, and I realize that it can be adjusted if necessary. Please, continuing this will only waste our time further. I don't see what you find POV about it right now. I'm stating what is said in that cite, and what should be said at that. -- Ryouga 04:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm student of Speech Therapy [Logopedie] in Brazil. I'm researching about 'grunten' or growling vocals [death grunt/death growl] used by Death Metal singers. I would like to know if you have some articles about death growl/growling vocals. I'm have difficulties because many terms exist in english to define this type of voice, while that in portuguese the term exists only is "gutural". However, have no studies about this theme in Brazil. You also can indicate scientific sources about my theme? I will be much grateful.
Send me anything. Any help is valid. I'm very grateful for your attention and I hope your answer.
My e-mail: arianalider@yahoo.com.br