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This page is an Archive of the discussions from
WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology talk page (Discussion page).
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There are a number of “missing” titles and relative duties in the nobility pages; I can only list a few:
It would be helpful to know what their station would have been. 174.25.99.225 ( talk) 16:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)A REDDSON
As per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Flag_Template#Flag_of_none, this image is either WP:OR,a depreciated place holder or should only be used to indicate an error condition in a template and as such should be removed Gnevin ( talk) 12:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 03:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been trying to create a new category in Commons for a heraldic ordinary, but the issue here is that I do not know English name for it - if there's any, could be that it is not recognized as ordinary in English heraldry at all. I was suggested to ask the name here, and so far we have identified it to be called in Finnish pieli, in Swedish post and in French adextré or senestré depending on position. This ordinary is like chief, but on the side of shield instead of being on top, and it is visible e.g. in these:
. Thanks in advance for any help available on this subject. --
Care (
talk)
09:38, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Are not Cercelée and Cross moline the same thing ? Can I propose WP:PM or did I miss something ? And if not, what is the difference ? (fyi we have just one category on Commons and one word in french). Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 09:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
I am only 98% sure about this, but I think the unicorn in the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom ought to sport a beard. I have suddenly realised that all relevant images of the afore-linked article (such as this) lack said beard; one might suspect an erroneous depiction of the unicorn as a horse with a horn, but the tail disproves such a theory. Can anyone weigh in? Waltham, The Duke of 02:45, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi,
I start a discussion on Commons about moving all categories about tinctures. Could you give your point of view on Commons talk:WikiProject Heraldry#Coats of arms by tinctures. Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 13:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
There are two files for the Flag of Ukraine, located at File:Ukraine flag.svg and File:Flag of Ukraine.svg. The latter displays in almost all locations on WP – I'm pretty sure that the latter is the correct flag – but the former is on display at Flag of Ukraine. I wanted to give someone with more insight and knowledge of WP:VEX a heads up. Happy editing. JohnnyPolo24 ( talk) 17:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Two curious new articles: Addington coat of arms, Addington-Barker coat of arms. They give "official" blazons in strikingly sloppy language, which do not entirely match the illustrations — and the A-B image has a royal crown! Their authors, User:Rachel Spencer-ward and User:Royal College of Arms (!), are also new to us. — Tamfang ( talk) 21:08, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
In the article about the Siege of Belgrade it is inserted the following flag:
![]() |
![]() |
This is the modern
flag of Hungary, which appeared after
Hungarian Revolution of 1848. Shouldn't we replace it with something else (a medieval coat of arms)? (
Umumu (
talk)
07:02, 30 March 2010 (UTC))
Another question: how can I make the flag of Wallachia and the flag of Szekelys to have the same dimension? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_%C5%9Eelimb%C4%83r ( Umumu ( talk) 07:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC))
There is no obligation to use flag icons in all infoboxes. In cases like this, when they are more confusing than helpful, it's better not to use them at all. See WP:MOSFLAG. I went ahead and removed the flag icons from Siege of Belgrade. — Kpalion (talk) 16:13, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I have a concern on the ratio of Flag of Buenos Aires. According to Buenos Aires City official site its flag ratio should be 9:14, but the depicted file is 3:5 instead. How can we get it changed? Thanks in advance, Mxcatania ( talk) 18:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
I have nominated John Vanbrugh for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. — Ed (talk • majestic titan) 06:17, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
FYI, Xanderliptak ( talk · contribs) has been moving around articles from "Coat of arms" to "Emblem" for many different countries. There seems to be some controversy on this, as many have been reverted. I expect that the ones that haven't been reverted haven't been noticed yet...
70.29.208.247 ( talk) 23:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Could someone give me a hand with this? I'd like to include a blazon for the Coat of Arms of the town of Adelberg in Germany in its article. I have had a go at writing it myself but I'm not sure it's right!:
Blazon: parted per fess or and sable, above a boar, sable, toward sinister, beneath a dog, or, toward dexter
Thanks. ChrisRedstone ( talk) 13:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I am sorry to interromp but I just need to ask an opinion and a favour to someone. My problem is that on the article Coat of arms of Yugoslavia, in the infobox, there is only place for one coat, but the country had two different coats in two different periods (as Kingdom 1918-WWII, and as Socialist Republic from WWII to 1992). Can someone help me to make the coats presentation more apropriate so that we avoid having one of the official national coats displayed well and the other only in the section "versions"... I did some attempts but I failed. An opinion would be also very much appreciated about if that particular infobox is good for using in cases of countries with that had several coats (well, in this case they were 2), and if not, which one is? Thanking in advance any help, I send the best regards to all participants of the project! :) FkpCascais ( talk) 22:06, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
One user is insistingly restoring the articles in the way he wants (ignoring as much as possible the royal period within the Yugoslavia). I reverted him but I suspect that he will revert me... Can someone please intervene to explain to this user why are some versions right or wrong, since he ignores completely all the comparable articles I have found and explained to him. His disruption needs to be stoped by someone from this project, because he just treats the article as battleground and doesn´t listen neither to me, neither to the other 3 editors... Thank you in advance, FkpCascais ( talk) 19:53, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
It seems to be a common misconception that any national emblem is a coat fo arms, and I have begun correcting some articles that falsely label an emblem as a coat of arms. However, I have found this to be more difficult than I anticipated. One method of opposition tasks me with finding it in the national constitution where it calls the device specifically an "emblem", and until then the article must remain labeled a coat of arms. Or that coat of arms is a common enough mistake that it doesn't matter if it is technically wrong. Or that the article has been listed as a coat of arms for four or more years, so there is no need for change now that it has done fine so far. This is an encyclopedia, whether or not it is a common mistake is pointless, mistakes aren't to be included in encyclopedias period.
The two articles mainly at issue are Coat of arms of Eritrea and Coat of arms of the Comoros. Clearly, the Comoros device is not a coat of arms, and less clearly the Eritrea device is not. The Eritrea image is but one version, and another one may be found on an Eritrean embassy website at [3]. The camel either natural or white, the roundel either white or blue, the wreath and scroll either surrounding the roundel or upon it, is all a matter of artistic interpretation and it is not meant to be a coat of arms but a depiction that happens to be circular.
So, if anyone could assist by throwing in their opinion on Talk:Coat of arms of Eritrea and Talk:Coat of arms of the Comoros, and help accurately rename the articles, I would appreciate the assistance. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 15:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Just to point out that the above document, published in March by the Flag Institute, contradicts some information on various Wikipedia pages about UK flags (most importantly about flag proportions). Could we please update and expand them with reference to the booklet? 188.221.240.150 ( talk) 17:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I wonder whether anyone has ever made a corpus-based estimate of the size of the practical heraldic vocabulary. Of course the list of rare charges is unlimited, but one ought to be able to say, for example, "N words suffice to blazon four-fifths of the shields in Rietstap." — Tamfang ( talk) 01:21, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I have not been too fond of the arms for the WikiProject. I was doodling a bit, and came up with this. Yes, a noticeable violation of tincture, yet since this is a project intended to ultimately have any and all arms recorded, it is fitting that the arms of this project be noticed and questioned of. The various letters come from Roman, Greek and Cyrillic alphabets, which covers much of the area in which heraldry originated and spread. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 11:31, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I've been editing the article about Mary of Austria (1505-1558) and I thought that having her coat of arms would be useful. There is a coat of arms at the Commons ( File:Blason MariedeHongrie.svg), but I'd like to have a coat of arms identical to the one above Mary's tomb (see File:GrabMaria von Ungarn.jpg). According to the Women in heraldry article, this was indeed her coat of arms during her marriage, but there are no sources to confirm that she ever used it. On the other hand, the coat depicted above her tomb is (again, according to the Women in heraldry article) the coat she used as a widow. The image of her tomb is the only source we've got and a very reliable one as well. I'd appreciate if someone could create the coat of arms that resembles the one above her tomb (on a lozenge, with a cordeliere) or at least tell me how I can do it myself. Thanks, Surtsicna ( talk) 13:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Though she was a queen, she was the queen consort and may not have been allowed the use of those crowns for her personal arms. I will look about and see if I can find another image of her tomb and see what crown is used, and then make a drawing for you. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 14:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm hoping this is the right place to ask for assistance on this matter. I started producing arms for wikipedia about a year ago and have made a good number since then. Its been a lot of fun, and I think I've generally followed the rules and sourced my work carefully. However, lately I've found people attacking a few examples of the work (proposing it for deletion and whatnot). I think generally their arguments don't acknowledge the practices of heraldry in general and on WP in particular. (For example a few have claimed that my images are not "official". I suspect they mean that, while faithful to the blazon, they are not the original artist's work. Someone else has complained that the work is not original, that it is merely a compilation of svg elements mashed into an approximation. Are we not permitted to use elements of other arms as appropriate) Perhaps I'm in the wrong, but some expert advice on the below issues would be much appreciated. I don't want to step on toes, but this has become somewhat disheartening lately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:James_Cook#New_full-width_infobox
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ann_Meekitjuk_Hanson_Arms.svg
My gallaries are here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:A1_Aardvark
Many thanks! A1 Aardvark ( talk) 15:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Can we create a FAQ to answer many of the questions or concerns that arise from coats of arms. Namely what I come across are (I.) Were coats of arms ever really considered of value or importance? (II.) Even if they were of value in their day, where is the proof the person in question even used this coat of arms? (III.) The shield shape on the provided image does not match the shield shape on the historical document, how can they be the same coat of arms if the shields are different shapes? (IV.) The symbols on the image provided do not match up in style or design on the official document, how can they be the same coat of arms if they are not in the same style? And, of course, the questions surrounding ‘clan crests’ and ‘family crests’ and whatever else they call them.
I do not mind writing up a draft version if it could be added to the main page and as a header to the talk page, as a “please read before posting a new topic, as this may answer your question” type of deal. And, of course, please provide any questions you commonly come across. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 13:54, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Now and then someone adds a link to www.national.archsrch.gov.za (or something similar); and when I follow them they're always invalid. Maybe the result-link is temporary, or maybe the reader needs to be logged in. For those who have used the thing: Does the result show up in a frame? Can you get the address of the content frame and give that? Or is searching the only way to access the material? — Tamfang ( talk) 18:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Can someone take
and "invert" them? That is, reverse the positions of the shield and the inescutcheon. As a British prince, Charles Edward's inescutcheon recalled his family's origins as Saxon dukes. Technically, when he became a reigning Saxon duke, his "origins" were represented as a British royal. Therefore the arms of the Coburg and Gotha ducal family became Saxony with an inescutcheon of the United Kingdom (that having a label of three points, heart-cross-heart). There should also be lozenge forms of those arms and
, for the princesses in Saxony. Thanks!
Seven Letters
00:30, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
I have no expertise in heraldry, but I have been asked by
Xanderliptak to raise this question here. Xander has added the image
Coat of arms of the Uí Néills, Princes of Tyrone by Alexander Liptak to a number of articles about the
O'Neills, and about
Irish people in general. The image is self-drawn, and is highly ornate. In response to expressions of concern that it is an original drawing not supported by secondary sources, he says, "they both depict a red hand cut off at the wrist on a white shield, so are the same thing. Yes, the new is more ornate, but that does not change or effect anything, and I will let someone else discuss this with WikiProject Heraldry for verification."
[4] While I'm prepared to accept his assertion that
File:O'Neill Clan.png is incorrect because it shows a right hand, an alternative image,
File:O'Neill.svg, exists that depicts a left hand.
Secondly, Xander has added the same highly ornate image, including a medieval English-style crown, to a number of articles about prehistoric and early medieval Irish kings or dynasties, to whom such things as coats of arms would have been unknown, with the edit summary "Arms adopt by descend and attributed to kings for centuries, arms are a de facto symbol."
[5] I and others feel this is inappropriate. Since Xander appears to believe that he has the full backing of the Heraldry Project,
[6] I would like to hear the views of other project members.
Scolaire (
talk)
07:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the authenticity of Xanderliptak's images, I have to say that the image of the coat of arms of Mary of Hungary (which he created) is entirely supported by sources, i.e. the image of the coat above her tomb. See #Coat of arms of Mary of Hungary (request). Surtsicna ( talk) 09:27, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Rouge Dragon has just fallen vacant, Rouge Croix has been vacant for six years, Portcullis eleven. Hubert Chesshyre has retired so one of the heralds will be promoted to Clarenceux and presumably Peter O'Donoghue will be promoted to herald. This will mean that there are no pursuivants at all. Why would this be the case? Surely there are people out there who would rather like to become officers of arms, and some of them surely must be qualified for the job. Does anyone have any guesses as to when we can expect a new Clarenceux to be appointed? Looking back the only times there have been interregnums have been when the incumbent died, which presumably couldn't be planned for.-- AmericanHeraldist ( talk) 14:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
What about this one? I like it. File:Djuanistan variant.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulises Heureaux ( talk • contribs) 03:39, 9 July 2010 (UTC) This is a variant of it. Which looks better? Does either one look good to anyone? What makes a flag well designed or not?
File:More stuff.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulises Heureaux ( talk • contribs) 03:41, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Featured_picture_candidates#Categories_of_nominations_that_are_defacto_banned that may interest you. Papa Lima Whiskey ( talk) 13:50, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Some links to South African gov search pages have recently been added by Mich Taylor (and in the past by Daniel C Boyer). When I follow them, I get only a top menu (or a notice that the service is too busy). Is that because I'm on the wrong continent, or are the links temporary by nature? — Tamfang ( talk) 17:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I seek comment on what I've just done to Pile (heraldry): taken the external citations from the body and collected them in the External Links section, with blazons and identification of the source. — Tamfang ( talk) 05:40, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Would any member of this wikiproject be willing and able to review Coat of arms of Albany, New York for me? It's a new article. Note that the coat of arms, city flag, and city seal will be changing very soon per this request. The current (if it hasn't been changed yet) version of the SVG is wrong. Thanks in advance for the help! upstate NYer 22:23, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
If anyone is knowledgeable or has access to good sources on early Ottoman flags, please take a look at this discussion. Thanks in advance, Constantine ✍ 20:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Not sure, but how should I expand that article. English is not my mother tongue and I don't want to do an idiocy by describing it. Is somebody willing to do that please ? :-) -- Diego Grez what's up? 00:52, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone!—By what standard, if any, is the Flag of NATO included in Lists, Infoboxes and such? I'm asking because I noticed the flag is missing in several places where it would fit in very well with other flags. See these examples:
Discussing this topic, allow me to clarify that I'm not a “fan of NATO”, or a zealot for any entity party to the mentioned conflicts—I'm merely interested in encyclopædic aesthetics and completeness. -- Mtu ( talk) 16:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
As a result of a scant
deletion discussion – which, as far as I can see, was never announced here – many galleries of flags were transwikied to Commons and deleted from the English-language Wikipedia. These galleries were navigational aids, and in my opinion their deletion was plain stupid. The deleting admin(s) have, in almost all cases, not even provided soft redirects, and so these deletions have left red links all over the place. See for example template {{
Lists of flags}}
, transcluded on many pages. For another example, see the red links in
List of flags by design, like where it says in section Cross: Main article:
Gallery of flags with crosses, making this completely useless for identifying, say, the flag of the
Sovereign Military Order of Malta. In the copying to Commons the wikilinks to the articles on Wikipedia were not adjusted, so now they are red links on Commons, or point to something else; see for example
Commons:Flags with stars. I don't know what to do with this and have no concrete proposals, but I thought this was the appropriate spot for posting an alert. --
Lambiam
14:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I am currently working on improving the article on Andrew Harclay, 1st Earl of Carlisle. With my limited means and skills, this was the best image I could produce of his coat of arms: commons:File:Harclay arms.jpg. It does the job I guess, but if anybody wants to take a crack at improving it, that would be highly appreciated. Lampman ( talk) 14:14, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I am curious as to why Medal of Honor has been tagged to this project. As a decoration, it properly belongs to WP:ODM which it is also tagged to. I have removed the tag. If there is a good reason for coverage by this project, please feel to restore it, but an explanation would be appreciated. Cheers, AusTerrapin ( talk) 14:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.
We would like to ask you to review the Heraldry and vexillology articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.
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A question has arisen about the coat of arms for Roosevelt which, until a few hours ago, was in our article. I've been discussing it with the editor who uploaded the image, but since this is a subject I know next to nothing about, I'd appreciate some additional comments. The discussion is here. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 05:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
hi there,
there is some discrepancy between national coats of arms, versus mere emblems or seals. For example the Emblem of Algeria is clearly not a coat of arms in the classic sense. Many non-European countries do not use the heraldic coat of arms, but rather seals or emblems for their state. But some articles have some serious differences with their name, for example it is National emblem of Belarus, but Coat of arms of the Republic of Macedonia? It's National seal of the Comoros but Emblem of Mauritania and National emblem of Cape Verde? Or are they also seals? I also don't understand why is it Coat of arms of South Korea, when it looks more like a seal or emblem? And the Coat of arms of Argentina looks more like a seal or arms, not a classic coat of arms in my opinion. It would be good if you guys could clarify some of these articles. Thanks alot. Gryffindor ( talk) 19:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello Project Heraldry editors, This is a question from WikiProject Gastropods.
We have been using this coat of arms from Zell, Zurich, Switzerland as our logo, a nice stylized land snail. I am no expert on heraldry and so I have ignorantly patched this description together from scratch, but would this perhaps be described as something like: Vert (green), a snail Blanc (white), Contorné (facing left), Rampant (rearing up)?
I know snails are not quadrupeds (!), but they do sometimes rear up like this, and this position is equivalent to the snail standing up "on its hind legs". Many thanks for any help you can give with this small and relatively insignificant matter, Best wishes, Invertzoo ( talk) 16:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
FYI, Flags of stateless nations and Coat of arms of stateless nations have been prodded for deletion. 76.66.200.95 ( talk) 06:55, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Coat of arms of Albany, New York is currently at FAC. There is an issue as to whether this COA is party per fess (as claimed by one of the sources) or chief (as suggested by one reviewer). Also, a clear blazon would be useful. Some help from this group would be appreciated if anybody feels qualified enough to comment. upstate NYer 02:51, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone perhaps know how to upload an image of the Royal Standard of Brunei? It can be viewed here. Nightw 14:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I have started a discussion on a recent change to the colours of the Brazilian flag here. Feel free to participate. Regards, Mxcatania ( talk) 06:11, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There's a person who makes edits to national flag articles, changing accounts of past stalled or failed flag change proposals to falsely imply that they will be adopted in 2012. So far he's attacked Flag of Cyprus and Flag of Angola; if he edits other articles in the same manner, please revert on sight... AnonMoos ( talk) 09:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 2005 | ← | Archive 2008 | Archive 2009 | Archive 2010 |
This page is an Archive of the discussions from
WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology talk page (Discussion page).
![]() |
---|
There are a number of “missing” titles and relative duties in the nobility pages; I can only list a few:
It would be helpful to know what their station would have been. 174.25.99.225 ( talk) 16:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)A REDDSON
As per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Flag_Template#Flag_of_none, this image is either WP:OR,a depreciated place holder or should only be used to indicate an error condition in a template and as such should be removed Gnevin ( talk) 12:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 03:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been trying to create a new category in Commons for a heraldic ordinary, but the issue here is that I do not know English name for it - if there's any, could be that it is not recognized as ordinary in English heraldry at all. I was suggested to ask the name here, and so far we have identified it to be called in Finnish pieli, in Swedish post and in French adextré or senestré depending on position. This ordinary is like chief, but on the side of shield instead of being on top, and it is visible e.g. in these:
. Thanks in advance for any help available on this subject. --
Care (
talk)
09:38, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Are not Cercelée and Cross moline the same thing ? Can I propose WP:PM or did I miss something ? And if not, what is the difference ? (fyi we have just one category on Commons and one word in french). Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 09:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
I am only 98% sure about this, but I think the unicorn in the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom ought to sport a beard. I have suddenly realised that all relevant images of the afore-linked article (such as this) lack said beard; one might suspect an erroneous depiction of the unicorn as a horse with a horn, but the tail disproves such a theory. Can anyone weigh in? Waltham, The Duke of 02:45, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi,
I start a discussion on Commons about moving all categories about tinctures. Could you give your point of view on Commons talk:WikiProject Heraldry#Coats of arms by tinctures. Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 13:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
There are two files for the Flag of Ukraine, located at File:Ukraine flag.svg and File:Flag of Ukraine.svg. The latter displays in almost all locations on WP – I'm pretty sure that the latter is the correct flag – but the former is on display at Flag of Ukraine. I wanted to give someone with more insight and knowledge of WP:VEX a heads up. Happy editing. JohnnyPolo24 ( talk) 17:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Two curious new articles: Addington coat of arms, Addington-Barker coat of arms. They give "official" blazons in strikingly sloppy language, which do not entirely match the illustrations — and the A-B image has a royal crown! Their authors, User:Rachel Spencer-ward and User:Royal College of Arms (!), are also new to us. — Tamfang ( talk) 21:08, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
In the article about the Siege of Belgrade it is inserted the following flag:
![]() |
![]() |
This is the modern
flag of Hungary, which appeared after
Hungarian Revolution of 1848. Shouldn't we replace it with something else (a medieval coat of arms)? (
Umumu (
talk)
07:02, 30 March 2010 (UTC))
Another question: how can I make the flag of Wallachia and the flag of Szekelys to have the same dimension? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_%C5%9Eelimb%C4%83r ( Umumu ( talk) 07:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC))
There is no obligation to use flag icons in all infoboxes. In cases like this, when they are more confusing than helpful, it's better not to use them at all. See WP:MOSFLAG. I went ahead and removed the flag icons from Siege of Belgrade. — Kpalion (talk) 16:13, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I have a concern on the ratio of Flag of Buenos Aires. According to Buenos Aires City official site its flag ratio should be 9:14, but the depicted file is 3:5 instead. How can we get it changed? Thanks in advance, Mxcatania ( talk) 18:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
I have nominated John Vanbrugh for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. — Ed (talk • majestic titan) 06:17, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
FYI, Xanderliptak ( talk · contribs) has been moving around articles from "Coat of arms" to "Emblem" for many different countries. There seems to be some controversy on this, as many have been reverted. I expect that the ones that haven't been reverted haven't been noticed yet...
70.29.208.247 ( talk) 23:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Could someone give me a hand with this? I'd like to include a blazon for the Coat of Arms of the town of Adelberg in Germany in its article. I have had a go at writing it myself but I'm not sure it's right!:
Blazon: parted per fess or and sable, above a boar, sable, toward sinister, beneath a dog, or, toward dexter
Thanks. ChrisRedstone ( talk) 13:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I am sorry to interromp but I just need to ask an opinion and a favour to someone. My problem is that on the article Coat of arms of Yugoslavia, in the infobox, there is only place for one coat, but the country had two different coats in two different periods (as Kingdom 1918-WWII, and as Socialist Republic from WWII to 1992). Can someone help me to make the coats presentation more apropriate so that we avoid having one of the official national coats displayed well and the other only in the section "versions"... I did some attempts but I failed. An opinion would be also very much appreciated about if that particular infobox is good for using in cases of countries with that had several coats (well, in this case they were 2), and if not, which one is? Thanking in advance any help, I send the best regards to all participants of the project! :) FkpCascais ( talk) 22:06, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
One user is insistingly restoring the articles in the way he wants (ignoring as much as possible the royal period within the Yugoslavia). I reverted him but I suspect that he will revert me... Can someone please intervene to explain to this user why are some versions right or wrong, since he ignores completely all the comparable articles I have found and explained to him. His disruption needs to be stoped by someone from this project, because he just treats the article as battleground and doesn´t listen neither to me, neither to the other 3 editors... Thank you in advance, FkpCascais ( talk) 19:53, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
It seems to be a common misconception that any national emblem is a coat fo arms, and I have begun correcting some articles that falsely label an emblem as a coat of arms. However, I have found this to be more difficult than I anticipated. One method of opposition tasks me with finding it in the national constitution where it calls the device specifically an "emblem", and until then the article must remain labeled a coat of arms. Or that coat of arms is a common enough mistake that it doesn't matter if it is technically wrong. Or that the article has been listed as a coat of arms for four or more years, so there is no need for change now that it has done fine so far. This is an encyclopedia, whether or not it is a common mistake is pointless, mistakes aren't to be included in encyclopedias period.
The two articles mainly at issue are Coat of arms of Eritrea and Coat of arms of the Comoros. Clearly, the Comoros device is not a coat of arms, and less clearly the Eritrea device is not. The Eritrea image is but one version, and another one may be found on an Eritrean embassy website at [3]. The camel either natural or white, the roundel either white or blue, the wreath and scroll either surrounding the roundel or upon it, is all a matter of artistic interpretation and it is not meant to be a coat of arms but a depiction that happens to be circular.
So, if anyone could assist by throwing in their opinion on Talk:Coat of arms of Eritrea and Talk:Coat of arms of the Comoros, and help accurately rename the articles, I would appreciate the assistance. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 15:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Just to point out that the above document, published in March by the Flag Institute, contradicts some information on various Wikipedia pages about UK flags (most importantly about flag proportions). Could we please update and expand them with reference to the booklet? 188.221.240.150 ( talk) 17:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I wonder whether anyone has ever made a corpus-based estimate of the size of the practical heraldic vocabulary. Of course the list of rare charges is unlimited, but one ought to be able to say, for example, "N words suffice to blazon four-fifths of the shields in Rietstap." — Tamfang ( talk) 01:21, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I have not been too fond of the arms for the WikiProject. I was doodling a bit, and came up with this. Yes, a noticeable violation of tincture, yet since this is a project intended to ultimately have any and all arms recorded, it is fitting that the arms of this project be noticed and questioned of. The various letters come from Roman, Greek and Cyrillic alphabets, which covers much of the area in which heraldry originated and spread. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 11:31, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I've been editing the article about Mary of Austria (1505-1558) and I thought that having her coat of arms would be useful. There is a coat of arms at the Commons ( File:Blason MariedeHongrie.svg), but I'd like to have a coat of arms identical to the one above Mary's tomb (see File:GrabMaria von Ungarn.jpg). According to the Women in heraldry article, this was indeed her coat of arms during her marriage, but there are no sources to confirm that she ever used it. On the other hand, the coat depicted above her tomb is (again, according to the Women in heraldry article) the coat she used as a widow. The image of her tomb is the only source we've got and a very reliable one as well. I'd appreciate if someone could create the coat of arms that resembles the one above her tomb (on a lozenge, with a cordeliere) or at least tell me how I can do it myself. Thanks, Surtsicna ( talk) 13:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Though she was a queen, she was the queen consort and may not have been allowed the use of those crowns for her personal arms. I will look about and see if I can find another image of her tomb and see what crown is used, and then make a drawing for you. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 14:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm hoping this is the right place to ask for assistance on this matter. I started producing arms for wikipedia about a year ago and have made a good number since then. Its been a lot of fun, and I think I've generally followed the rules and sourced my work carefully. However, lately I've found people attacking a few examples of the work (proposing it for deletion and whatnot). I think generally their arguments don't acknowledge the practices of heraldry in general and on WP in particular. (For example a few have claimed that my images are not "official". I suspect they mean that, while faithful to the blazon, they are not the original artist's work. Someone else has complained that the work is not original, that it is merely a compilation of svg elements mashed into an approximation. Are we not permitted to use elements of other arms as appropriate) Perhaps I'm in the wrong, but some expert advice on the below issues would be much appreciated. I don't want to step on toes, but this has become somewhat disheartening lately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:James_Cook#New_full-width_infobox
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ann_Meekitjuk_Hanson_Arms.svg
My gallaries are here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:A1_Aardvark
Many thanks! A1 Aardvark ( talk) 15:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Can we create a FAQ to answer many of the questions or concerns that arise from coats of arms. Namely what I come across are (I.) Were coats of arms ever really considered of value or importance? (II.) Even if they were of value in their day, where is the proof the person in question even used this coat of arms? (III.) The shield shape on the provided image does not match the shield shape on the historical document, how can they be the same coat of arms if the shields are different shapes? (IV.) The symbols on the image provided do not match up in style or design on the official document, how can they be the same coat of arms if they are not in the same style? And, of course, the questions surrounding ‘clan crests’ and ‘family crests’ and whatever else they call them.
I do not mind writing up a draft version if it could be added to the main page and as a header to the talk page, as a “please read before posting a new topic, as this may answer your question” type of deal. And, of course, please provide any questions you commonly come across. [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 13:54, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Now and then someone adds a link to www.national.archsrch.gov.za (or something similar); and when I follow them they're always invalid. Maybe the result-link is temporary, or maybe the reader needs to be logged in. For those who have used the thing: Does the result show up in a frame? Can you get the address of the content frame and give that? Or is searching the only way to access the material? — Tamfang ( talk) 18:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Can someone take
and "invert" them? That is, reverse the positions of the shield and the inescutcheon. As a British prince, Charles Edward's inescutcheon recalled his family's origins as Saxon dukes. Technically, when he became a reigning Saxon duke, his "origins" were represented as a British royal. Therefore the arms of the Coburg and Gotha ducal family became Saxony with an inescutcheon of the United Kingdom (that having a label of three points, heart-cross-heart). There should also be lozenge forms of those arms and
, for the princesses in Saxony. Thanks!
Seven Letters
00:30, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
I have no expertise in heraldry, but I have been asked by
Xanderliptak to raise this question here. Xander has added the image
Coat of arms of the Uí Néills, Princes of Tyrone by Alexander Liptak to a number of articles about the
O'Neills, and about
Irish people in general. The image is self-drawn, and is highly ornate. In response to expressions of concern that it is an original drawing not supported by secondary sources, he says, "they both depict a red hand cut off at the wrist on a white shield, so are the same thing. Yes, the new is more ornate, but that does not change or effect anything, and I will let someone else discuss this with WikiProject Heraldry for verification."
[4] While I'm prepared to accept his assertion that
File:O'Neill Clan.png is incorrect because it shows a right hand, an alternative image,
File:O'Neill.svg, exists that depicts a left hand.
Secondly, Xander has added the same highly ornate image, including a medieval English-style crown, to a number of articles about prehistoric and early medieval Irish kings or dynasties, to whom such things as coats of arms would have been unknown, with the edit summary "Arms adopt by descend and attributed to kings for centuries, arms are a de facto symbol."
[5] I and others feel this is inappropriate. Since Xander appears to believe that he has the full backing of the Heraldry Project,
[6] I would like to hear the views of other project members.
Scolaire (
talk)
07:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the authenticity of Xanderliptak's images, I have to say that the image of the coat of arms of Mary of Hungary (which he created) is entirely supported by sources, i.e. the image of the coat above her tomb. See #Coat of arms of Mary of Hungary (request). Surtsicna ( talk) 09:27, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Rouge Dragon has just fallen vacant, Rouge Croix has been vacant for six years, Portcullis eleven. Hubert Chesshyre has retired so one of the heralds will be promoted to Clarenceux and presumably Peter O'Donoghue will be promoted to herald. This will mean that there are no pursuivants at all. Why would this be the case? Surely there are people out there who would rather like to become officers of arms, and some of them surely must be qualified for the job. Does anyone have any guesses as to when we can expect a new Clarenceux to be appointed? Looking back the only times there have been interregnums have been when the incumbent died, which presumably couldn't be planned for.-- AmericanHeraldist ( talk) 14:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
What about this one? I like it. File:Djuanistan variant.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulises Heureaux ( talk • contribs) 03:39, 9 July 2010 (UTC) This is a variant of it. Which looks better? Does either one look good to anyone? What makes a flag well designed or not?
File:More stuff.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulises Heureaux ( talk • contribs) 03:41, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Featured_picture_candidates#Categories_of_nominations_that_are_defacto_banned that may interest you. Papa Lima Whiskey ( talk) 13:50, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Some links to South African gov search pages have recently been added by Mich Taylor (and in the past by Daniel C Boyer). When I follow them, I get only a top menu (or a notice that the service is too busy). Is that because I'm on the wrong continent, or are the links temporary by nature? — Tamfang ( talk) 17:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I seek comment on what I've just done to Pile (heraldry): taken the external citations from the body and collected them in the External Links section, with blazons and identification of the source. — Tamfang ( talk) 05:40, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Would any member of this wikiproject be willing and able to review Coat of arms of Albany, New York for me? It's a new article. Note that the coat of arms, city flag, and city seal will be changing very soon per this request. The current (if it hasn't been changed yet) version of the SVG is wrong. Thanks in advance for the help! upstate NYer 22:23, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
If anyone is knowledgeable or has access to good sources on early Ottoman flags, please take a look at this discussion. Thanks in advance, Constantine ✍ 20:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Not sure, but how should I expand that article. English is not my mother tongue and I don't want to do an idiocy by describing it. Is somebody willing to do that please ? :-) -- Diego Grez what's up? 00:52, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone!—By what standard, if any, is the Flag of NATO included in Lists, Infoboxes and such? I'm asking because I noticed the flag is missing in several places where it would fit in very well with other flags. See these examples:
Discussing this topic, allow me to clarify that I'm not a “fan of NATO”, or a zealot for any entity party to the mentioned conflicts—I'm merely interested in encyclopædic aesthetics and completeness. -- Mtu ( talk) 16:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
As a result of a scant
deletion discussion – which, as far as I can see, was never announced here – many galleries of flags were transwikied to Commons and deleted from the English-language Wikipedia. These galleries were navigational aids, and in my opinion their deletion was plain stupid. The deleting admin(s) have, in almost all cases, not even provided soft redirects, and so these deletions have left red links all over the place. See for example template {{
Lists of flags}}
, transcluded on many pages. For another example, see the red links in
List of flags by design, like where it says in section Cross: Main article:
Gallery of flags with crosses, making this completely useless for identifying, say, the flag of the
Sovereign Military Order of Malta. In the copying to Commons the wikilinks to the articles on Wikipedia were not adjusted, so now they are red links on Commons, or point to something else; see for example
Commons:Flags with stars. I don't know what to do with this and have no concrete proposals, but I thought this was the appropriate spot for posting an alert. --
Lambiam
14:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I am currently working on improving the article on Andrew Harclay, 1st Earl of Carlisle. With my limited means and skills, this was the best image I could produce of his coat of arms: commons:File:Harclay arms.jpg. It does the job I guess, but if anybody wants to take a crack at improving it, that would be highly appreciated. Lampman ( talk) 14:14, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I am curious as to why Medal of Honor has been tagged to this project. As a decoration, it properly belongs to WP:ODM which it is also tagged to. I have removed the tag. If there is a good reason for coverage by this project, please feel to restore it, but an explanation would be appreciated. Cheers, AusTerrapin ( talk) 14:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.
We would like to ask you to review the Heraldry and vexillology articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.
We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!
For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:07, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
A question has arisen about the coat of arms for Roosevelt which, until a few hours ago, was in our article. I've been discussing it with the editor who uploaded the image, but since this is a subject I know next to nothing about, I'd appreciate some additional comments. The discussion is here. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 05:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
hi there,
there is some discrepancy between national coats of arms, versus mere emblems or seals. For example the Emblem of Algeria is clearly not a coat of arms in the classic sense. Many non-European countries do not use the heraldic coat of arms, but rather seals or emblems for their state. But some articles have some serious differences with their name, for example it is National emblem of Belarus, but Coat of arms of the Republic of Macedonia? It's National seal of the Comoros but Emblem of Mauritania and National emblem of Cape Verde? Or are they also seals? I also don't understand why is it Coat of arms of South Korea, when it looks more like a seal or emblem? And the Coat of arms of Argentina looks more like a seal or arms, not a classic coat of arms in my opinion. It would be good if you guys could clarify some of these articles. Thanks alot. Gryffindor ( talk) 19:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello Project Heraldry editors, This is a question from WikiProject Gastropods.
We have been using this coat of arms from Zell, Zurich, Switzerland as our logo, a nice stylized land snail. I am no expert on heraldry and so I have ignorantly patched this description together from scratch, but would this perhaps be described as something like: Vert (green), a snail Blanc (white), Contorné (facing left), Rampant (rearing up)?
I know snails are not quadrupeds (!), but they do sometimes rear up like this, and this position is equivalent to the snail standing up "on its hind legs". Many thanks for any help you can give with this small and relatively insignificant matter, Best wishes, Invertzoo ( talk) 16:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
FYI, Flags of stateless nations and Coat of arms of stateless nations have been prodded for deletion. 76.66.200.95 ( talk) 06:55, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Coat of arms of Albany, New York is currently at FAC. There is an issue as to whether this COA is party per fess (as claimed by one of the sources) or chief (as suggested by one reviewer). Also, a clear blazon would be useful. Some help from this group would be appreciated if anybody feels qualified enough to comment. upstate NYer 02:51, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone perhaps know how to upload an image of the Royal Standard of Brunei? It can be viewed here. Nightw 14:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I have started a discussion on a recent change to the colours of the Brazilian flag here. Feel free to participate. Regards, Mxcatania ( talk) 06:11, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There's a person who makes edits to national flag articles, changing accounts of past stalled or failed flag change proposals to falsely imply that they will be adopted in 2012. So far he's attacked Flag of Cyprus and Flag of Angola; if he edits other articles in the same manner, please revert on sight... AnonMoos ( talk) 09:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)