Novels: Harry Potter Project‑class | ||||||||||
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I see in the color-coded "affiliation/loyalty" section that Draco Malfoy gets his own color scheme (black text with green background). I guess this is OK with me - what with Crabbe and Goyle and Pansy all the time sniffing around his backside. But the only other Individual to get such distinction honors is Voldemort.
I am wondering, if Draco gets a section due to his 3 constant companions, shouldn't Harry get his own loyalty/affiliation and color scheme too? I mean he is THE main character, and is growing up with his own (sometimes erratic) following, with Ron and Hermione and Ginny and Fred and George and pretty much all the Weasleys (sans Percy) backing him up without question, not to mention nervous Neville, the creepy Creevy boys, and even suspicious Seamus seems to be coming around to Harry's side (albeit hesitantly). It is pretty clear that in Book 7, Harry will be the key challenger to Voldemort, and will have any number of "loyal" supporters backing up his cause. I think if Draco is allowed an "official entourage", then so should Harry, simply because Harry is more "important" in the overall scheme, and has "more" such supporters. On the other hand, Draco himself shows considerable (if perhaps "forced" and perhaps "failed") "loyalty" to Voldemort. Of course my prediction is that Malfoy and Potter will unite in the end to defeat Voldemort, giving the "leatherpants" fanatics an early Christmas present, but that's a subject for another day.
I am also concerned about the distinction between loyalty/affiliation to Voldemort, versus being affiliated with the Death Eaters. I just don't see a very strong distinction there.
I think the Loyalty and Allegiance sections need to be better combined and coordinated. I would propose affiliating and grouping the characters with something like:
Of course this is not necessarily perfect, with characters all the time apparently switching sides, but this is meant to serve more as a discussion starter for the experts. ---- T-dot 14:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, rather than working theoretically, let's actually work with the content that's in the Templates page. To merge T-dot's proposed scheme with mine, I'm going to create a new heading "workshop", where we can just modify it at will. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 17:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Colours mentioned first have the highest priority. In other words, people who have allegiance (as noted in their infoboxes) to both the Order of the Phoenix and Hogwarts would have the colours of the Order of the Phoenix. For complex cases like Snape, who is marked as Unknown, we should give him either the "Unknown" colour scheme or the Death Eaters scheme (since the Death Eaters colour has priority over the Order of the Phoenix). These colour schemes would also apply to a character whose allegiance is presumed, sympathiser, or affiliate. Note that priority isn't fixed, it can be changed according to complex cases. However, listing it like this just means that we are more consistent.
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Black | White | Sample | Death Eaters, Lord Voldemort. |
Gold | Black | Sample | Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore's Army. |
Red | Black | Sample | Ministry of Magic, Inquisitorial Squad. |
Pink | Black | Sample | Hogwarts, unknown affliation, no affiliation, all other affiliations. |
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Brown | Gold | .Hogwarts. | Hogwarts Students and Staff not particularly loyal elsewhere. |
Gold | Black | .The Good Side. | Dumbledore's Army, Order of the Phoenix. |
Black | White | .The Dark Side. | Voldemort, Death Eaters. |
Red | Black | .The Ministry. | Ministry of Magic, Inquisitorial Squad. |
Tan | Black | .Other Unknown. | unknown, double agents, and other affliations. |
And yet another proposal (by SmokeyJoe) is to only use one infobox colour. I'd like to use yellow background with black letters, so for completeness, I'll list it here. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 14:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Gold | Black | Sample | All infoboxes |
I have a hard time with the "Inquisitorial Squad" colour scheme. On one hand, it was founded by a member of the Ministry of Magic, arguably a complex organisation that has good intentions but sometimes engages in questionable practices. On the other hand, most of the people in the Squad are "not-good" people. I'm really not sure, but it probably helps to point out that those in the Inquisitorial Squad, while not exactly good, certainly aren't as "evil" as the Death Eaters, hence, my concurrance with T-dot's proposal that the Squad has the same colour scheme as the Ministry of Magic. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 17:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I like T-dots colors, Inquisitorial Squad probably should be left with the Ministry colors, but I think the order of the boxes from top to bottom in order of which comes first should be just like DeathPhoenix's- with Hogwarts second to last and above unknown. Just my thoughts. Emily ( Funtrivia Freak) 20:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I think one colour for infobox is a great idea. It makes it consistent with the rest of the book, reduces the cruftiness factor of these articles, and eliminates original research on what side they're on. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 14:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be good to add "Harry Potter Events" in the Navigation box, where we could add article such as Snape's Worst Memory, Battle of the Departement of Mysteries, and Battle of Hogwarts
I know 2 of them don't exist yet but I'm planing to start them soon.
Halyks June 16 2006 8:55pm EST
There is a big problem throughout HP article of not having citations. I recently nominated Ginny Weasley for GA status, and one of the biggest complaints seemed to be a lack of citations. The reviewer said that a [book+chapter] reference would be enough since there are so many different versions. My point here is that we need an inline citation template with both the book and the chapter cited. I don't know how to do this, but hopefully someone that does can help. Maybe this can help us get more articles up to GA status, and eventually FA status. John Reaves 19:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I tried to change Template:WPHP to say "Non-Article" instead of "NA" so that it made sense to anyone that saw it, but I couldn't quite figure out how to do it. So is there anybody that knows how to edit templates? I also wondered if anyone thinks a navigation template for the subpages within the project would be useful. John Reaves 02:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
...Doesn't this colour scheme match up to what is actually used? Are all the Gryffindors - Harry included - giving allegiance to the Ministry? All the Hufflepuffs are OotP sympathisers? How do the Ravenclaws fit in? Michaelsanders 15:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
The 5 colour schemes shown some paragraphs above, and more thoroughly discussed and developed here were generally agreed to back in April, but a formal staw poll or consensus was never really established, and the matter fizzled out and was dropped before the colors were formally implemented. I still like the 5-schemes as shown: Hogwarts Staff, the "Good Side" (eg: DA, OOtP), the "Bad Side" (eg: Voldemort, Death Eaters), the "Ministry Loyalists" (eg: Fudge, Umbridge), and the "Other / Unknowns". These colours were selected for high visibility, readability, fg/bg contrast, etc. One of the problems is some characters, like Snape, were ambiguously good or evil and setting a colour on them became a Point of View or Original Research argument. I think this is one of the issues that caused the house of color cards to tumble. Anyway I would have NO objection to using the 5-colour schemes shown as developed and agreed to above, if someone wants to take on the task (it is a big one). This would be far superior to just randomly shifting colours around, to match personal tastes and preferences, as has happened the last few days in several HP articles. Just be prepared to constantly defend your choices to those who challenge your POV and OR. For convenience, I'll repost the selected colours again below. If you select "edit", then you can see the bg and fg colour names. And dont forget the 2px black borders! -- T-dot ( Talk | contribs) 12:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Brown | Gold | .Hogwarts. | Hogwarts Students and Staff not particularly loyal elsewhere. |
Gold | Black | .The Good Side. | Dumbledore's Army, Order of the Phoenix. |
Black | White | .The Dark Side. | Voldemort, Death Eaters. |
Red | Black | .The Ministry. | Ministry of Magic, Inquisitorial Squad. |
Tan | Black | .Other Unknown. | unknown, double agents, and other affliations. |
Why Not? Michaelsanders 14:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Seems pretty much done now (though I expect there are still some people to change still). After this, the storm.
Michaelsanders
23:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I think there should be a "status" section in the infobox so people know whether or not the character is still alive. For example, on Sirius Black's page, it is quite difficult to find this important information. Supertigerman 15:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Harry_Potter/Templates#Book_references Might be updated to these. [PS Ch.{{{ch}}}] [CS Ch.{{{ch}}}] [PoA Ch.{{{ch}}}] [GF Ch.{{{ch}}}] [OotP Ch.{{{ch}}}] [HBP Ch.{{{ch}}}] [DH Ch.{{{ch}}}] using > {{PStone|2}}? Chandler talk 14:08, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Novels: Harry Potter Project‑class | ||||||||||
|
I see in the color-coded "affiliation/loyalty" section that Draco Malfoy gets his own color scheme (black text with green background). I guess this is OK with me - what with Crabbe and Goyle and Pansy all the time sniffing around his backside. But the only other Individual to get such distinction honors is Voldemort.
I am wondering, if Draco gets a section due to his 3 constant companions, shouldn't Harry get his own loyalty/affiliation and color scheme too? I mean he is THE main character, and is growing up with his own (sometimes erratic) following, with Ron and Hermione and Ginny and Fred and George and pretty much all the Weasleys (sans Percy) backing him up without question, not to mention nervous Neville, the creepy Creevy boys, and even suspicious Seamus seems to be coming around to Harry's side (albeit hesitantly). It is pretty clear that in Book 7, Harry will be the key challenger to Voldemort, and will have any number of "loyal" supporters backing up his cause. I think if Draco is allowed an "official entourage", then so should Harry, simply because Harry is more "important" in the overall scheme, and has "more" such supporters. On the other hand, Draco himself shows considerable (if perhaps "forced" and perhaps "failed") "loyalty" to Voldemort. Of course my prediction is that Malfoy and Potter will unite in the end to defeat Voldemort, giving the "leatherpants" fanatics an early Christmas present, but that's a subject for another day.
I am also concerned about the distinction between loyalty/affiliation to Voldemort, versus being affiliated with the Death Eaters. I just don't see a very strong distinction there.
I think the Loyalty and Allegiance sections need to be better combined and coordinated. I would propose affiliating and grouping the characters with something like:
Of course this is not necessarily perfect, with characters all the time apparently switching sides, but this is meant to serve more as a discussion starter for the experts. ---- T-dot 14:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, rather than working theoretically, let's actually work with the content that's in the Templates page. To merge T-dot's proposed scheme with mine, I'm going to create a new heading "workshop", where we can just modify it at will. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 17:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Colours mentioned first have the highest priority. In other words, people who have allegiance (as noted in their infoboxes) to both the Order of the Phoenix and Hogwarts would have the colours of the Order of the Phoenix. For complex cases like Snape, who is marked as Unknown, we should give him either the "Unknown" colour scheme or the Death Eaters scheme (since the Death Eaters colour has priority over the Order of the Phoenix). These colour schemes would also apply to a character whose allegiance is presumed, sympathiser, or affiliate. Note that priority isn't fixed, it can be changed according to complex cases. However, listing it like this just means that we are more consistent.
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Black | White | Sample | Death Eaters, Lord Voldemort. |
Gold | Black | Sample | Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore's Army. |
Red | Black | Sample | Ministry of Magic, Inquisitorial Squad. |
Pink | Black | Sample | Hogwarts, unknown affliation, no affiliation, all other affiliations. |
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Brown | Gold | .Hogwarts. | Hogwarts Students and Staff not particularly loyal elsewhere. |
Gold | Black | .The Good Side. | Dumbledore's Army, Order of the Phoenix. |
Black | White | .The Dark Side. | Voldemort, Death Eaters. |
Red | Black | .The Ministry. | Ministry of Magic, Inquisitorial Squad. |
Tan | Black | .Other Unknown. | unknown, double agents, and other affliations. |
And yet another proposal (by SmokeyJoe) is to only use one infobox colour. I'd like to use yellow background with black letters, so for completeness, I'll list it here. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 14:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Gold | Black | Sample | All infoboxes |
I have a hard time with the "Inquisitorial Squad" colour scheme. On one hand, it was founded by a member of the Ministry of Magic, arguably a complex organisation that has good intentions but sometimes engages in questionable practices. On the other hand, most of the people in the Squad are "not-good" people. I'm really not sure, but it probably helps to point out that those in the Inquisitorial Squad, while not exactly good, certainly aren't as "evil" as the Death Eaters, hence, my concurrance with T-dot's proposal that the Squad has the same colour scheme as the Ministry of Magic. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 17:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I like T-dots colors, Inquisitorial Squad probably should be left with the Ministry colors, but I think the order of the boxes from top to bottom in order of which comes first should be just like DeathPhoenix's- with Hogwarts second to last and above unknown. Just my thoughts. Emily ( Funtrivia Freak) 20:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I think one colour for infobox is a great idea. It makes it consistent with the rest of the book, reduces the cruftiness factor of these articles, and eliminates original research on what side they're on. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 14:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be good to add "Harry Potter Events" in the Navigation box, where we could add article such as Snape's Worst Memory, Battle of the Departement of Mysteries, and Battle of Hogwarts
I know 2 of them don't exist yet but I'm planing to start them soon.
Halyks June 16 2006 8:55pm EST
There is a big problem throughout HP article of not having citations. I recently nominated Ginny Weasley for GA status, and one of the biggest complaints seemed to be a lack of citations. The reviewer said that a [book+chapter] reference would be enough since there are so many different versions. My point here is that we need an inline citation template with both the book and the chapter cited. I don't know how to do this, but hopefully someone that does can help. Maybe this can help us get more articles up to GA status, and eventually FA status. John Reaves 19:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I tried to change Template:WPHP to say "Non-Article" instead of "NA" so that it made sense to anyone that saw it, but I couldn't quite figure out how to do it. So is there anybody that knows how to edit templates? I also wondered if anyone thinks a navigation template for the subpages within the project would be useful. John Reaves 02:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
...Doesn't this colour scheme match up to what is actually used? Are all the Gryffindors - Harry included - giving allegiance to the Ministry? All the Hufflepuffs are OotP sympathisers? How do the Ravenclaws fit in? Michaelsanders 15:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
The 5 colour schemes shown some paragraphs above, and more thoroughly discussed and developed here were generally agreed to back in April, but a formal staw poll or consensus was never really established, and the matter fizzled out and was dropped before the colors were formally implemented. I still like the 5-schemes as shown: Hogwarts Staff, the "Good Side" (eg: DA, OOtP), the "Bad Side" (eg: Voldemort, Death Eaters), the "Ministry Loyalists" (eg: Fudge, Umbridge), and the "Other / Unknowns". These colours were selected for high visibility, readability, fg/bg contrast, etc. One of the problems is some characters, like Snape, were ambiguously good or evil and setting a colour on them became a Point of View or Original Research argument. I think this is one of the issues that caused the house of color cards to tumble. Anyway I would have NO objection to using the 5-colour schemes shown as developed and agreed to above, if someone wants to take on the task (it is a big one). This would be far superior to just randomly shifting colours around, to match personal tastes and preferences, as has happened the last few days in several HP articles. Just be prepared to constantly defend your choices to those who challenge your POV and OR. For convenience, I'll repost the selected colours again below. If you select "edit", then you can see the bg and fg colour names. And dont forget the 2px black borders! -- T-dot ( Talk | contribs) 12:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
bgcolor | fgcolor | (example) | Allegiance |
---|---|---|---|
Brown | Gold | .Hogwarts. | Hogwarts Students and Staff not particularly loyal elsewhere. |
Gold | Black | .The Good Side. | Dumbledore's Army, Order of the Phoenix. |
Black | White | .The Dark Side. | Voldemort, Death Eaters. |
Red | Black | .The Ministry. | Ministry of Magic, Inquisitorial Squad. |
Tan | Black | .Other Unknown. | unknown, double agents, and other affliations. |
Why Not? Michaelsanders 14:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Seems pretty much done now (though I expect there are still some people to change still). After this, the storm.
Michaelsanders
23:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I think there should be a "status" section in the infobox so people know whether or not the character is still alive. For example, on Sirius Black's page, it is quite difficult to find this important information. Supertigerman 15:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Harry_Potter/Templates#Book_references Might be updated to these. [PS Ch.{{{ch}}}] [CS Ch.{{{ch}}}] [PoA Ch.{{{ch}}}] [GF Ch.{{{ch}}}] [OotP Ch.{{{ch}}}] [HBP Ch.{{{ch}}}] [DH Ch.{{{ch}}}] using > {{PStone|2}}? Chandler talk 14:08, 26 August 2007 (UTC)