This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I think it's important you stress that writers avoid an anti-male bias as well. Also, I would suggest including articles like masculism and fathers rights in articles for suggested improvement. Thanks, -- Urthogie 18:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we should also be trying to get rid of "subconcious" gender biased language such as "actress" and "waitress." Technical "actor" and "waitor" can be used for both genders and by keeping them separated subconciously reinforces that men and women should be separated. What do you think? Ilessthan3you 03:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
what in the world is "Fat Butt and Pancake Head"?
I have a number of problems with this. First of all, why is the desire to remove gender bias compelling you to organize under a female symbol? Does not that seem a bit ironic if not hypocritical?
Secondly, I don't understand why "Miss" or Mrs. should be changed to Ms. If the goal is to remain factual, I don't see how changing to the politically correct "ms." would help things. Au contrare, it would bury facts. If the proposed change is undertaken, the reader will know less about the referrent (her marital status.) Nathaniel
Now that the argument is over, where do we start on actually improving things? I'd been thinking of trying to get something like this going for a long while (as it is my major), and I'd like to at least get a proper to-do list up and running (and not just being left with the dregs of the countering systemic bias project in this area). Any suggestions? Ambi 23:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm having a little trouble with why a fathers rights page is within the gender studies umbrella. Sure, it concerns fathers, who are men, who have gender, but its not "gender studies". Apart from its category, I'm not sure that the Fathers rights page needs the intervention of a project team. Its very long, reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article, and appears to be the ground of numerous disputes. Its a giant can of worms. An An 04:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I find it interesting that the very page that says it's about removing a bias (that it cannot demonstrate) is biased.
Notice that men are referred to as males.
While women are referred to as women, not females.
The effect is simple, it dehumanizes men, which seems to be the idea behind this project, to devalue and censure work by men, because it was done by men.
Feminism is the no longer remarkable idea that women are people, and that men are not. It shows this in many ways, but it always refers to women as women, and men as males.
It's not a good thing to see that Wikipedia is following it's lead.
Can anyone tell me why it matters how much work was done by men and by women?
Can anyone tell me what is wrong with the contributions by men?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.172.115.2 ( talk • contribs)
This project is going nowhere while its talk page is riddled with accusations of POV-talking. There's POV on both sides of a coin. Wikipedia's job is to balance POVs by recognising them and naming them. Representing only a dominant view is clearly POV. Part of the aim of this project appears to be representing gender-diverse POVs. If you don't understand the nature of this project it might be better to ask a simple question, instead of posting a long rant about how underrepresented men are. An An 21:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
(unsigned comment by 64.172.115.2 )
Archive it! I wholly agree, Ambi. An An 23:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
And done. Please all, let us stick to discussing how we can best go about engaging in writing and improving articles, and take the philosophical arguments somewhere else. Ambi 23:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Why was the discussion I started on the silliness of changing "Miss" and "Mrs." to "Ms." archived? This whole project is motivated by a philosophical argument, and to the extent that the philosophical arguments motivate your proposed article "improvements" and "writing," I think they merit discussion.
The archiving of this discussion is deceptive. You are launching an ideologically-influenced campaign under the guise of good wikipedia housekeeping. Nathaniel
Well, exaggeration or not, I would like to pose the following question: What wikipedia policy supports the idea to systematically edit pages and replace "Mrs." or "Miss" with "Ms." I know of none. In fact, this has the effect of reducing the information previously available. (In all cases where this is carried out, the marital status of the woman referred to as "Mrs." will have been removed from the article unless there is mention of her current husband or marital status.)
You say that I exaggerate, but I would like to give you an illustration of what I am talking about. When I first encountered this "project," (to remove "gender bias" in wikipedia articles), I objected to the fact that it was being organized under an image for the sign associated with the female symbol. The next day, the image was amended to show both the male and the female symbol. My point is that the "Ms./Mrs./Miss" aim of this project should not be given serious consideration, because it is just as silly as pushing for the elimination of "gender bias" under the banner of the female symbol.
Instead, the aim to replace Mrs. with something more palatable is the reflection of an ideological viewpoint. This is unacceptable. Another one of the aims, to create a greater number of articles of feminists is perfectly acceptable. This is expanding the information available to wikipedia users rather than reducing it. Nathaniel
Hi all, I've been thinking that we could clean up the front page a bit more so that its more obvious what needs to be done. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Law (which I also participate in sometimes) has some sub-pages to classify work to be done - this might be a useful idea here to minimise the clutter. Also we should consider whether establishing templates could be a useful device for us to bring some articles under a subject umbrella? AnAn 11:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I've created {{Template:WikiProject Gender Studies Tasks}} which inserts a lovely tasks box into the page. I largely copied it from WP:CSB, but changed the colour from grey to the WP:GS lilac. I've made it so there's a link to /to do, and also an edit this list. I reckon we can continue dicussion and comments about the tasks on /to do, at least for now. In populating the tasks box with articles from /to do, I did the following:
I've been really tempted to split the expands into "people" and "topics", but I'm not sure that would work out in the long run. I hope that what I've done is OK with everyone. Cheers, AnAn 01:03, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for including the male symbol in the graphic. Now it would be good to make your project actually gender studies rather than only women's studies. The prejudices against women have long been discussed and recognized (at least by a large portion of the population), whereas the prejudices against men tend to be misunderstood or ignored - probably a bias of our time, which is only beginning to change.
I have always been open to feminist viewpoints, and it disturbes me that this is not reciprocated. I am not suggesting that all oppression has been evenly doled out - women seem to have been far more oppressed - but I'm neither willing to accept the view that men have suffered none, or that there are only biases against women but none against men in Wikipedia. There are many feminist contributors to Wikipedia, but probably few masculists, so this in itself might incorporate a bias. My hope is that people involved in your project are open to these possible biases, instead of insisting that gender issues belong to women alone. Further to this point, it is probably fair to say that we all have way too much emotional baggage around this issue to properly assess it, so we should be as open as possible. If you don't like or agree with what I'm saying, consider the possibility that you haven't yet become aware of some of the hidden men's issues that have had little air time. This is in no way a denial of women's issues, however.
Re: Miss or Mrs. changed to Ms. - agreed it should be last name only. But if you're going to use a title, it should be whatever title that person uses, not necessarily Ms. It's simply inaccurate to call someone Ms. when they are legally Mrs. This is an encyclopedia, after all, and readers are relying on us to inform them correctly. Even if you consider it sexist, that sexism should not be disguised. It's also disrespectful to the person's choice, and may be culturally insensitive. 24.64.223.203 09:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Ummm. This logo is a bit obnoxious. Can where be something a little more thumbnail or perhaps a stub-style gizmo? I'm doing the Good Goddess' work over in the menz' articles, and the current size is just too much for me. Rorybowman 04:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Again, with the issues with the symbol for this project! Anyway, if the aim of this project is actually to make wikipedia more gender-inclusive, in terms of content and quality of work, there may be problems with the current symbol, as it reinforces the idea of a male/female gender binary that, as all you gender theorists out there know, not only doesn't reflect the way the world actually is, but represents an anti-trans, anti-intersexed, and possibly anti-gay bias. Since all of these are issues that gender articles work with, perhaps there's a way to alter the symbol so that these issues don't rear their ugly heads? - Seth Mahoney 01:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Hehe! Doesn't this symbol mean the divergence of male and female? It makes me think of hermaphrodites, personally. Nathaniel
In articles on Soviet snipers, such as Zikan, the links to articles on other snipers are in the see also section. Maybe I'm just being hypersensitive, but does it strike anyone as wrong that the female snipers are listed [[Name]](female). Seems like an irrelevant detail. Why dont the male snipers have (male). I corrected one instance, but it seems like this could be a lot more prevalent. Anyone with better wikiskills than me should probably look into this. savidan (talk) (e@) 08:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I recently made some comments on the penis envy article in regards to evolutionary psychology. The comments are at: Talk:Penis envy#Ev Psyche and Penis Envy. I'd be curious to hear some feedback. EPM 19:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the above article needs significant expansion - any help would be much appreciated (mind you I am assuming this WikiProject also deals with trans-related issues - if not, please feel free to remove this request). SouthernComfort 15:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I was wondering if there's a reason why no "This User is a member of WikiProject Gender Studies" template has been created. Userboxes like this are used by other WikiProjects and are a great way to direct people to the project headquarters. If there are no objections, I'll make one, but I just wanted to check it out first. Thanks! Romarin 04:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I recently came across a template on the Esperanza Programs page that I believe could be viewed as derogatory toward women. I have left a note on the corresponding talk page voicing my concerns. In an effort to make Wikipedia free of sexist references, I would appreciate back-up by any others who also disagree with the usage of this template, as well as any input (whether in support or not) on the subject of my concern. Thanks, rom a rin 19:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
It would be good to see more information on "gender and development". Any input appreciated - see discussion at Talk:Gender. Thanks! -- Singkong2005 10:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the content over at Veganism#Feminist_motivations is so sparse as to be mildly confusing. Would someone familiar with feminist critiques of meat-eating (or feminist advocacy of veganism) please expand upon that section? Much appreciated! Coelacan 17:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
This Afd is likely to be of interest. -- Ian Pitchford 15:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Know anything about sports? Do you have an opinion?
Come voice your opinion at
Talk:Defenceman.
ColtsScore 14:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm inspired by User:ColtsScore's request for support and would like to suggest that sports articles be given a little attention. I've been working hard for months by myself (and walking to school barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways - just kidding...) to bring some gender balance to the sports articles. I began because I was unable to find even the most basic information on Women's sports, especially football (soccer), with the Women's World Cup coming in 2007. And now, I'm also faced with the daunting task of finding collaborators to support the inclusion of men in articles on "traditionally more female" sports. I've met with quite a bit of resistance (see my page for a glimpse of the dialogue) and could use help from some very tactful, collaborative and patient editors. Is that you? Please help when you're able. Deebki 13:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I got involved with the article after reading some of the comments on a recently closed AfD #15 on this days listing which has since been recreated and expanded as Domestic violence against men. I was appalled at the WP:POINT being exhibited, especially by those who contended that if that article got deleted then the corresponding Violence against Women should also. Looking at the article, I agreed that it needed some POV clean up and general expansion. I started to do some re-write on the article but time contraints will limit my ability to devote extensive time. Any help from other editors would be greatly appreciated. Agne 16:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to request comments and suggestions for the following situation in Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers#Not_so_fast.__There_is_obvious_POV_gender_bias_here . This is a very long, complicated situation involving whether women should be included on this list of Opera composers. As a male musician who has done quite alot of research on women in music, I firmly believe that a representative sample should be on the list (I'm not suggesting 50/50 or even 30/70, just two or three representative women). When I first noticed this article, it was completely unsourced, and the "important composers" were chosen by a collegial system ("I like that." "I don't like that") without any mention of sources. I marked the article NPOV and Unsourced. The article quickly became sourced, but I continued to bring up the issue of gender bias and brought three sources to the discussion after consulting the International Alliance of Women in Music [ [3]], all of which were dismissed because they only contained works by women. However, when the list was finally completed (I was asked not to participate, as I was considered to be have a POV agenda towards women and living composers), six of the ten lists used only contained the names of men. The other four only contained one woman (Judith Weir). If lists of only women composers are unacceptable, why are lists of only men composers acceptable? And was are sources which could prove the importance of women in music dismissed as having a POV agenda.
A colleague who is a teacher of Women's studies at an American University has suggested that this is a textbook case of "canon forming" or the creation of hierarchies using preconceived notions. The process involves making a hypothesis using the notions that one already has, such as "Important operas are only composed by dead, White, European males", using the sources already utilised for making the hypothesis for proving the statement and then dismissing contradictary sources or discrediting individuals who make statements which oppose the primary hypothesis.
I am certainly not asking anyone to get directly involved here, as this is already become quite violent and an RfA is currently underway. I would however appreciate any ideas concerning how to confront this sort of gender bias, any useful sources and other ideas, as well as general comments. Thank you Jean-Thierry Boisseau 20:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm working on an article for a rather odd play by W. S. Gilbert, Charity about the differences in treatment of women and men who have had sex outside of marriage, and, basically, attempting to demonstrate the Victorian view of women in that situation as baseless and wrong - that women can commit what was then considered sexual impropriety whilst remaining good women, and not being permanently fallen women. Aye, it's probably irrelevant now: We've gone beyond those beliefs, but it deserves to be known about.
However, whilst my knowledge of the Victorian attitudes is reasonably good, I'm not sure of my ability to produce a well-cited section on the historical background. Can anyone direct me to appropriate books? Adam Cuerden talk 15:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 23:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I can't help but notice that you have only feminist categories and NO masculist categories. If you really intend to eliminate or reduce gender bias from WP, you ought to start with the PGS page. You can't ever acheive gender neutral from a solely feminist view. How about cleaning up the sexist bias in the Categories.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.19.14.21 ( talk) 03:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC).
After someone's comment at Superhero, I thought I would offer a suggestion. You might want to create a different template for talk pages instead of using your navigational template ( Template:WikiProject Gender Studies). Check out Talk:Superman for some examples, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide for why this may be preferred. - jc37 17:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I've just happened upon this WikiProject, and while it interests me I'm finding the front page a little busy and lengthy - I think it could be streamlined a bit to better facilitate new people immediately seeing tasks to be done of interest, thereby contributing new work to the project. I'm going to make some changes, feel free to revert them if you don't think they're good ideas. Kurieeto 01:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Feminist Phyllis Chessler in her (2006) The Death of Feminism (Chapter 1: The "Good" Feminist) makes the following statements about totalitarian thought control in elite academic and media circles. I added these excerpts here because I added well-sourced qualification to this project (see discussion below) that reflects these concerns about gynocentric, reverse-sexist, and misandric gender bias. Ironically but not surprisingly, I already see I face the same tactics (as an editor) to silence this so-called "non-consensus" content from, I imagine, 'good' feminists and/or other editors who sympathethize with them...no personal offense to any editor here. I have no problem with constructive NPOV criticisms but I have sound cause to suspect that this project in particular, is a politically loaded project being used to pander to 'oppression' feminist POV with no consideration given to other POV's much less to GENUINE NPOV gender-bias corrections. I hope we will use civil, overt, and constructive discussions here rather than cunning, covert, and destructive totalitarian tactics to resolve issues related to the addition or subtraction of politically incorrect and/or politically correct content in this project. To see a blatantly reverse sexist ("feminist") project is POV to me. I added some balance to the project so that we can INDEED eliminate all forms of blatant gender bias be they for or against 'gender'-feminist POV. Please keep in mind that so-called 'gender-oppression' is an untested and often falsified "GENDER"-feminist theory that is being used shamelessly as an ideology. We need some sort of NPOV balance here.
(drop in editor)
(drop in editor) 128.111.96.152 01:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Content in question:
Someone reverted the content above from this project as being not in 'consensus' whatever that means in a project like this that is aimed at ALL forms of systemic and gender bias on wikipedia. I added this content to flag systemic and GYNOCENTRIC gender biases I see all over feminist related pages after reading Nathanson and Young, Hoff-Sommers, and other non-gender-ginning feminists' takes on this. I suspect this project was created to pander to the points of view of misandric, gender-ginning, 'patriarchal oppression' feminists (please see Women's studies, misandry and feminism ) who use the term 'gender' as a cunning, covert, and blatantly gynocentric weapon of war. Many other more moderate feminists and non-feminists have challenged these blatantly gynocentric, and often misandric "gender feminist" ideologies. I insist on a non-sexist, non-'genderist', non-reverse sexist project...otherwise this project is just the usual type of cunning totalitarian tactic we see so much in other politically correct channels. To revert the above content just because none of the orginal authors of this project page like it is a POV stunt to have ones cake and eat it too. I am going to reinsert the content. I insist that before it is reverted again good NPOV reasons be provided. My aim here is some kind of GENUINE non-sexist, non-reverse sexist, and non-'genderist' NPOV...as may be shown well in Sexism (drop in editor) 00:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I noted on your front page you do not wish to add pro-female POV, et al, however you also say right above it, quote, This project does not aim to correct a perceived pro-female or anti-male bias in Wikipedia. Nor does it seek to write general critiques of articles about gender-related topics.. So you wont add pro-female bias, but you won't remove it either? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by David Fuchs ( talk • contribs) 21:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I think it's important you stress that writers avoid an anti-male bias as well. Also, I would suggest including articles like masculism and fathers rights in articles for suggested improvement. Thanks, -- Urthogie 18:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we should also be trying to get rid of "subconcious" gender biased language such as "actress" and "waitress." Technical "actor" and "waitor" can be used for both genders and by keeping them separated subconciously reinforces that men and women should be separated. What do you think? Ilessthan3you 03:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
what in the world is "Fat Butt and Pancake Head"?
I have a number of problems with this. First of all, why is the desire to remove gender bias compelling you to organize under a female symbol? Does not that seem a bit ironic if not hypocritical?
Secondly, I don't understand why "Miss" or Mrs. should be changed to Ms. If the goal is to remain factual, I don't see how changing to the politically correct "ms." would help things. Au contrare, it would bury facts. If the proposed change is undertaken, the reader will know less about the referrent (her marital status.) Nathaniel
Now that the argument is over, where do we start on actually improving things? I'd been thinking of trying to get something like this going for a long while (as it is my major), and I'd like to at least get a proper to-do list up and running (and not just being left with the dregs of the countering systemic bias project in this area). Any suggestions? Ambi 23:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm having a little trouble with why a fathers rights page is within the gender studies umbrella. Sure, it concerns fathers, who are men, who have gender, but its not "gender studies". Apart from its category, I'm not sure that the Fathers rights page needs the intervention of a project team. Its very long, reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article, and appears to be the ground of numerous disputes. Its a giant can of worms. An An 04:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I find it interesting that the very page that says it's about removing a bias (that it cannot demonstrate) is biased.
Notice that men are referred to as males.
While women are referred to as women, not females.
The effect is simple, it dehumanizes men, which seems to be the idea behind this project, to devalue and censure work by men, because it was done by men.
Feminism is the no longer remarkable idea that women are people, and that men are not. It shows this in many ways, but it always refers to women as women, and men as males.
It's not a good thing to see that Wikipedia is following it's lead.
Can anyone tell me why it matters how much work was done by men and by women?
Can anyone tell me what is wrong with the contributions by men?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.172.115.2 ( talk • contribs)
This project is going nowhere while its talk page is riddled with accusations of POV-talking. There's POV on both sides of a coin. Wikipedia's job is to balance POVs by recognising them and naming them. Representing only a dominant view is clearly POV. Part of the aim of this project appears to be representing gender-diverse POVs. If you don't understand the nature of this project it might be better to ask a simple question, instead of posting a long rant about how underrepresented men are. An An 21:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
(unsigned comment by 64.172.115.2 )
Archive it! I wholly agree, Ambi. An An 23:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
And done. Please all, let us stick to discussing how we can best go about engaging in writing and improving articles, and take the philosophical arguments somewhere else. Ambi 23:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Why was the discussion I started on the silliness of changing "Miss" and "Mrs." to "Ms." archived? This whole project is motivated by a philosophical argument, and to the extent that the philosophical arguments motivate your proposed article "improvements" and "writing," I think they merit discussion.
The archiving of this discussion is deceptive. You are launching an ideologically-influenced campaign under the guise of good wikipedia housekeeping. Nathaniel
Well, exaggeration or not, I would like to pose the following question: What wikipedia policy supports the idea to systematically edit pages and replace "Mrs." or "Miss" with "Ms." I know of none. In fact, this has the effect of reducing the information previously available. (In all cases where this is carried out, the marital status of the woman referred to as "Mrs." will have been removed from the article unless there is mention of her current husband or marital status.)
You say that I exaggerate, but I would like to give you an illustration of what I am talking about. When I first encountered this "project," (to remove "gender bias" in wikipedia articles), I objected to the fact that it was being organized under an image for the sign associated with the female symbol. The next day, the image was amended to show both the male and the female symbol. My point is that the "Ms./Mrs./Miss" aim of this project should not be given serious consideration, because it is just as silly as pushing for the elimination of "gender bias" under the banner of the female symbol.
Instead, the aim to replace Mrs. with something more palatable is the reflection of an ideological viewpoint. This is unacceptable. Another one of the aims, to create a greater number of articles of feminists is perfectly acceptable. This is expanding the information available to wikipedia users rather than reducing it. Nathaniel
Hi all, I've been thinking that we could clean up the front page a bit more so that its more obvious what needs to be done. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Law (which I also participate in sometimes) has some sub-pages to classify work to be done - this might be a useful idea here to minimise the clutter. Also we should consider whether establishing templates could be a useful device for us to bring some articles under a subject umbrella? AnAn 11:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I've created {{Template:WikiProject Gender Studies Tasks}} which inserts a lovely tasks box into the page. I largely copied it from WP:CSB, but changed the colour from grey to the WP:GS lilac. I've made it so there's a link to /to do, and also an edit this list. I reckon we can continue dicussion and comments about the tasks on /to do, at least for now. In populating the tasks box with articles from /to do, I did the following:
I've been really tempted to split the expands into "people" and "topics", but I'm not sure that would work out in the long run. I hope that what I've done is OK with everyone. Cheers, AnAn 01:03, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for including the male symbol in the graphic. Now it would be good to make your project actually gender studies rather than only women's studies. The prejudices against women have long been discussed and recognized (at least by a large portion of the population), whereas the prejudices against men tend to be misunderstood or ignored - probably a bias of our time, which is only beginning to change.
I have always been open to feminist viewpoints, and it disturbes me that this is not reciprocated. I am not suggesting that all oppression has been evenly doled out - women seem to have been far more oppressed - but I'm neither willing to accept the view that men have suffered none, or that there are only biases against women but none against men in Wikipedia. There are many feminist contributors to Wikipedia, but probably few masculists, so this in itself might incorporate a bias. My hope is that people involved in your project are open to these possible biases, instead of insisting that gender issues belong to women alone. Further to this point, it is probably fair to say that we all have way too much emotional baggage around this issue to properly assess it, so we should be as open as possible. If you don't like or agree with what I'm saying, consider the possibility that you haven't yet become aware of some of the hidden men's issues that have had little air time. This is in no way a denial of women's issues, however.
Re: Miss or Mrs. changed to Ms. - agreed it should be last name only. But if you're going to use a title, it should be whatever title that person uses, not necessarily Ms. It's simply inaccurate to call someone Ms. when they are legally Mrs. This is an encyclopedia, after all, and readers are relying on us to inform them correctly. Even if you consider it sexist, that sexism should not be disguised. It's also disrespectful to the person's choice, and may be culturally insensitive. 24.64.223.203 09:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Ummm. This logo is a bit obnoxious. Can where be something a little more thumbnail or perhaps a stub-style gizmo? I'm doing the Good Goddess' work over in the menz' articles, and the current size is just too much for me. Rorybowman 04:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Again, with the issues with the symbol for this project! Anyway, if the aim of this project is actually to make wikipedia more gender-inclusive, in terms of content and quality of work, there may be problems with the current symbol, as it reinforces the idea of a male/female gender binary that, as all you gender theorists out there know, not only doesn't reflect the way the world actually is, but represents an anti-trans, anti-intersexed, and possibly anti-gay bias. Since all of these are issues that gender articles work with, perhaps there's a way to alter the symbol so that these issues don't rear their ugly heads? - Seth Mahoney 01:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Hehe! Doesn't this symbol mean the divergence of male and female? It makes me think of hermaphrodites, personally. Nathaniel
In articles on Soviet snipers, such as Zikan, the links to articles on other snipers are in the see also section. Maybe I'm just being hypersensitive, but does it strike anyone as wrong that the female snipers are listed [[Name]](female). Seems like an irrelevant detail. Why dont the male snipers have (male). I corrected one instance, but it seems like this could be a lot more prevalent. Anyone with better wikiskills than me should probably look into this. savidan (talk) (e@) 08:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I recently made some comments on the penis envy article in regards to evolutionary psychology. The comments are at: Talk:Penis envy#Ev Psyche and Penis Envy. I'd be curious to hear some feedback. EPM 19:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the above article needs significant expansion - any help would be much appreciated (mind you I am assuming this WikiProject also deals with trans-related issues - if not, please feel free to remove this request). SouthernComfort 15:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I was wondering if there's a reason why no "This User is a member of WikiProject Gender Studies" template has been created. Userboxes like this are used by other WikiProjects and are a great way to direct people to the project headquarters. If there are no objections, I'll make one, but I just wanted to check it out first. Thanks! Romarin 04:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I recently came across a template on the Esperanza Programs page that I believe could be viewed as derogatory toward women. I have left a note on the corresponding talk page voicing my concerns. In an effort to make Wikipedia free of sexist references, I would appreciate back-up by any others who also disagree with the usage of this template, as well as any input (whether in support or not) on the subject of my concern. Thanks, rom a rin 19:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
It would be good to see more information on "gender and development". Any input appreciated - see discussion at Talk:Gender. Thanks! -- Singkong2005 10:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the content over at Veganism#Feminist_motivations is so sparse as to be mildly confusing. Would someone familiar with feminist critiques of meat-eating (or feminist advocacy of veganism) please expand upon that section? Much appreciated! Coelacan 17:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
This Afd is likely to be of interest. -- Ian Pitchford 15:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Know anything about sports? Do you have an opinion?
Come voice your opinion at
Talk:Defenceman.
ColtsScore 14:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm inspired by User:ColtsScore's request for support and would like to suggest that sports articles be given a little attention. I've been working hard for months by myself (and walking to school barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways - just kidding...) to bring some gender balance to the sports articles. I began because I was unable to find even the most basic information on Women's sports, especially football (soccer), with the Women's World Cup coming in 2007. And now, I'm also faced with the daunting task of finding collaborators to support the inclusion of men in articles on "traditionally more female" sports. I've met with quite a bit of resistance (see my page for a glimpse of the dialogue) and could use help from some very tactful, collaborative and patient editors. Is that you? Please help when you're able. Deebki 13:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I got involved with the article after reading some of the comments on a recently closed AfD #15 on this days listing which has since been recreated and expanded as Domestic violence against men. I was appalled at the WP:POINT being exhibited, especially by those who contended that if that article got deleted then the corresponding Violence against Women should also. Looking at the article, I agreed that it needed some POV clean up and general expansion. I started to do some re-write on the article but time contraints will limit my ability to devote extensive time. Any help from other editors would be greatly appreciated. Agne 16:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to request comments and suggestions for the following situation in Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers#Not_so_fast.__There_is_obvious_POV_gender_bias_here . This is a very long, complicated situation involving whether women should be included on this list of Opera composers. As a male musician who has done quite alot of research on women in music, I firmly believe that a representative sample should be on the list (I'm not suggesting 50/50 or even 30/70, just two or three representative women). When I first noticed this article, it was completely unsourced, and the "important composers" were chosen by a collegial system ("I like that." "I don't like that") without any mention of sources. I marked the article NPOV and Unsourced. The article quickly became sourced, but I continued to bring up the issue of gender bias and brought three sources to the discussion after consulting the International Alliance of Women in Music [ [3]], all of which were dismissed because they only contained works by women. However, when the list was finally completed (I was asked not to participate, as I was considered to be have a POV agenda towards women and living composers), six of the ten lists used only contained the names of men. The other four only contained one woman (Judith Weir). If lists of only women composers are unacceptable, why are lists of only men composers acceptable? And was are sources which could prove the importance of women in music dismissed as having a POV agenda.
A colleague who is a teacher of Women's studies at an American University has suggested that this is a textbook case of "canon forming" or the creation of hierarchies using preconceived notions. The process involves making a hypothesis using the notions that one already has, such as "Important operas are only composed by dead, White, European males", using the sources already utilised for making the hypothesis for proving the statement and then dismissing contradictary sources or discrediting individuals who make statements which oppose the primary hypothesis.
I am certainly not asking anyone to get directly involved here, as this is already become quite violent and an RfA is currently underway. I would however appreciate any ideas concerning how to confront this sort of gender bias, any useful sources and other ideas, as well as general comments. Thank you Jean-Thierry Boisseau 20:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm working on an article for a rather odd play by W. S. Gilbert, Charity about the differences in treatment of women and men who have had sex outside of marriage, and, basically, attempting to demonstrate the Victorian view of women in that situation as baseless and wrong - that women can commit what was then considered sexual impropriety whilst remaining good women, and not being permanently fallen women. Aye, it's probably irrelevant now: We've gone beyond those beliefs, but it deserves to be known about.
However, whilst my knowledge of the Victorian attitudes is reasonably good, I'm not sure of my ability to produce a well-cited section on the historical background. Can anyone direct me to appropriate books? Adam Cuerden talk 15:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 23:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I can't help but notice that you have only feminist categories and NO masculist categories. If you really intend to eliminate or reduce gender bias from WP, you ought to start with the PGS page. You can't ever acheive gender neutral from a solely feminist view. How about cleaning up the sexist bias in the Categories.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.19.14.21 ( talk) 03:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC).
After someone's comment at Superhero, I thought I would offer a suggestion. You might want to create a different template for talk pages instead of using your navigational template ( Template:WikiProject Gender Studies). Check out Talk:Superman for some examples, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide for why this may be preferred. - jc37 17:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I've just happened upon this WikiProject, and while it interests me I'm finding the front page a little busy and lengthy - I think it could be streamlined a bit to better facilitate new people immediately seeing tasks to be done of interest, thereby contributing new work to the project. I'm going to make some changes, feel free to revert them if you don't think they're good ideas. Kurieeto 01:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Feminist Phyllis Chessler in her (2006) The Death of Feminism (Chapter 1: The "Good" Feminist) makes the following statements about totalitarian thought control in elite academic and media circles. I added these excerpts here because I added well-sourced qualification to this project (see discussion below) that reflects these concerns about gynocentric, reverse-sexist, and misandric gender bias. Ironically but not surprisingly, I already see I face the same tactics (as an editor) to silence this so-called "non-consensus" content from, I imagine, 'good' feminists and/or other editors who sympathethize with them...no personal offense to any editor here. I have no problem with constructive NPOV criticisms but I have sound cause to suspect that this project in particular, is a politically loaded project being used to pander to 'oppression' feminist POV with no consideration given to other POV's much less to GENUINE NPOV gender-bias corrections. I hope we will use civil, overt, and constructive discussions here rather than cunning, covert, and destructive totalitarian tactics to resolve issues related to the addition or subtraction of politically incorrect and/or politically correct content in this project. To see a blatantly reverse sexist ("feminist") project is POV to me. I added some balance to the project so that we can INDEED eliminate all forms of blatant gender bias be they for or against 'gender'-feminist POV. Please keep in mind that so-called 'gender-oppression' is an untested and often falsified "GENDER"-feminist theory that is being used shamelessly as an ideology. We need some sort of NPOV balance here.
(drop in editor)
(drop in editor) 128.111.96.152 01:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Content in question:
Someone reverted the content above from this project as being not in 'consensus' whatever that means in a project like this that is aimed at ALL forms of systemic and gender bias on wikipedia. I added this content to flag systemic and GYNOCENTRIC gender biases I see all over feminist related pages after reading Nathanson and Young, Hoff-Sommers, and other non-gender-ginning feminists' takes on this. I suspect this project was created to pander to the points of view of misandric, gender-ginning, 'patriarchal oppression' feminists (please see Women's studies, misandry and feminism ) who use the term 'gender' as a cunning, covert, and blatantly gynocentric weapon of war. Many other more moderate feminists and non-feminists have challenged these blatantly gynocentric, and often misandric "gender feminist" ideologies. I insist on a non-sexist, non-'genderist', non-reverse sexist project...otherwise this project is just the usual type of cunning totalitarian tactic we see so much in other politically correct channels. To revert the above content just because none of the orginal authors of this project page like it is a POV stunt to have ones cake and eat it too. I am going to reinsert the content. I insist that before it is reverted again good NPOV reasons be provided. My aim here is some kind of GENUINE non-sexist, non-reverse sexist, and non-'genderist' NPOV...as may be shown well in Sexism (drop in editor) 00:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I noted on your front page you do not wish to add pro-female POV, et al, however you also say right above it, quote, This project does not aim to correct a perceived pro-female or anti-male bias in Wikipedia. Nor does it seek to write general critiques of articles about gender-related topics.. So you wont add pro-female bias, but you won't remove it either? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by David Fuchs ( talk • contribs) 21:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC).