![]() | College football Project‑class | ||||||
|
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
All right fellow loving disciples of college football, our religion begins another official season today. Let us be the monks who ensure that articles are properly updated and revised as the season progresses. ...and take some damn pictures (if you can) :-) -- Bobak 16:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
For anyone who goes to games, please remember to TAKE A CAMERA with you. I have a new camera for this season ... 7 megapixels and 10x zoom that I bought on sale for only $200. -- B 16:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Also try to keep game summaries to the team article only, don't create articles on games unless there has been historical significance per WP:N. Currently #5 Michigan is close to being upset by a Division-II school, unless it says upset of the century or something, keep the info to the 2007 Michigan football team article. I'm saying this because I expect some newer users create articles on their teams games. Does anyone else agree. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 18:59, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
They are the top Division-II school in the nation, not that big of an upset, if it was like a 0-10 Division-II team, then it will be the upset of the century and deserves it's own article, this doesn't. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 20:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I just created an article on the Appalachian State upset of Michigan. It's been nominated for deletion. If anyone wants to comment on it, go here. — Dale Arnett 05:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Guys, the media: LA Times, NY Times, SI, ESPN, have all called alternatively "the" but mostly "one of the" greatest upsets of all time. So, I'd say this is article worthy --it's just amazing to have it the first "week" after the Boise State-Oklahoma game. -- Bobak 17:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2006 Hawaii Bowl. Johntex\ talk 03:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Another notice for WPCFB members. We have eight images up for Selected Image for our Portal. I ask that everybody take a look at them and vote. Hopefully, we'll continue to have frequent nominations as the season progresses. Also, there is one old Selected Article nomination that needs more voters to determine a majority. Check out the nominations at Portal:College football/Selected Content/Nominations.↔ NMajdan• talk 02:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I put together an infobox for trophy games, feel free to take a look at it and comment. I took a look around at different articles and it seems there is a hodge podge out there. One standard seems to to have a toc for who won which years, such as Paul Bunyan's Axe, but it seems kind of messy to me to have logo images scattered about. It also seems a little redundant to have that toc listing the years each team won, followed by in many cases a complete list of scores, which gives you the same info. My main hope with the infobox was to integrate the logos into a better layout and this is what I ended up with. Here is the article: Floyd of Rosedale, and here is the template: User:Gopher backer/sandbox7. Feel free to do whatever with it. Gopher backer 06:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Due to the ongoing discussion on deletion and possible transwiki of 2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game to WikiNews, I suggest that the project hash out ASAP workable criteria for inclusion of individual college football game articles in Wikipedia.
Initial ideas:
I'll welcome all proposals. — Dale Arnett 05:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I feel really bad now about opening up such a can of worms on the topic of college football games.
It now looks like virtually all of the game articles will get shot down sooner or later. Also, I really believe the next step will be that someone will start putting up season articles for AfD, since a large part of them will from necessity be game recaps.
Maybe it's time that someone started a separate college football wiki, if it hasn't already been done, which can include team articles, season articles, people, places, history, and yes, games of true historic importance. Now, I don't have the time myself for something that ambitious... but I'd like to see what other folks think about this idea. — Dale Arnett 04:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Added comment: Many of the existing articles on individual games can't be put on Wikinews because they predate that project. Also, it's been pointed out that Wikipedia content can't be transwikied to Wikinews because of incompatible licenses, which means that even for those articles that conceivably could go into Wikinews, they would have to be redone from scratch. (Depending on the article, that might be a good thing, but still...) Which makes a dedicated college football wiki something worth considering, IMHO. — Dale Arnett 04:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I doubt it's needed, Division-I teams, and seasons are notable by defualt, games are the issues though, if they are of true historic importance, keep them, if it's a normal game, delete or merge to the indiviual season. It's fairly simple. Jaranda wat's sup Sports! 04:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
http://ncaawiki.com ↔ NMajdan• talk 21:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I am thinking of creating an article called List of current and former LSU Tigers football players because the list is getting quite long on the main page, and it has been argued (and I agree) that the main page lists too many players, many who weren't even that prominent. Also, what criteria determines "prominence"? So I figure a separate list would alleviate this, while not removing link to players who some consider to be not prominent. I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions. I don't want to create it if its just going to get AfD'd. Seancp 17:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't have the time to add this until next week, but I had the idea to add contract information to the Coach infobox. Length, guaranteed money and buyout information. Something like "Contract: $45M through 2013, $1.5M buyout", would require a cite of course. So this article would be a good example of things to start including. I don't expect this to be controversial, but feel free to comment. MECU≈ talk 12:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Is this information released for private school coaches? Plus, I know coaches get a 1 time bonus every few years they're at an institution. How do you factor that in? Corpx 14:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I know Mack was technically the highest paid coach two or 3 years ago because of a 1 time bonus of 3 million (I think). So, would you add bonuses like that to the salary of that year? Corpx 15:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I changed the format of the links to the previous and next seasons on the above template. It looks cleaner and is better centered, which was an issue we've had in the past with the template. Let me know what you think and definitely let me know if you find an article my change broke. I checked several football articles and a basketball and baseball article and they look fine.↔ NMajdan• talk 17:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I am incredibly pleased to announce that 2005 Texas Longhorn football team has been recognized as a featured article. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this article through edits, suggestions, and peer review.
Now that we've gotten one through, hopefully we can start progressing others through the FA system.
It seems that every FA nomination is unique in terms of what gets scrutinized. However, certain things took a lot of tedious time to fix and so I will list them out here in the hopes that other editors can avoid these problems while the are writing, instead of having to go back and fix them all:
You can check the nomination page for more detail. The nomination even got restarted once because there were so many little things being flagged and fixed.
Thanks again for everyone's help. We can all be proud of this milestone for the project. Johntex\ talk 05:35, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Can anybody think of a way for us to combine all the coach templates that may be on a coach's article into one? Take a look at Howard Schnellenberger. He has five coaching templates. I would really like to have a way to keep the individual templates, but, to have another "container" template that combines them into one and hides them. Basically, kinda like {{ WikiProjectBannerShell}} except for coaching templates. Of course, we want to keep the custom colors that exist for the individual school. Any ideas? Should we request assistance at WP:VPT or WP:WPT?↔ NMajdan• talk 03:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a tremendously disruptive dispute between PSU fans and FSU fans at Bobby Bowden ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Joe Paterno ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The PSU fans want it noted that some of Bowden's wins were at a school that is currently in the division formerly known as I-AA (although at the time he was there, it was before the DI split happened). The FSU fans want to retaliate by noting that JoePa was hospitalized during some of his wins. It would be great if some more uninvolved people would help revert vandalism, opine, and referee. -- B 00:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Here are two more FAs that are related to college football:
The Aggie Bonfire tradition was formed to help pump up Texas A&M prior to their rivalry game against Texas. The tradition would not exist if not for college football. The Aggie band is a marching band and those have a military tradition. Therefore, one could argue that A&M would have a band even without college football, but I think it is safe to say that their half-time performances are what has made the band famous.
I think the pageantry of college football (traditions, mascots, rivalry trophies, etc) are a large part of what makes college football great. I believe those two articles (and others like them) should be tagged as being a part of this project. Thoughts? Johntex\ talk 00:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I've seen a lot of player "fan sites" lately. A lot of them are just link aggregators. They usually have the athletes name as their domain name. See [1] for an example. Several times, I've seen ones like this where the person adds a link to the website and an interwiki link to a non-existent page. (I'm not sure what that accomplishes.) I imagine that a lot of these websites are owned by the same person or organization. These aren't real fan sites where there is an actual community. Has anyone else noticed links like this? -- B 07:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Found a site that links to a lot of news articles about a given topic, whether that topic is a team or a player or a specific sports writer. SportsUltra.com. Definitely handy when writing game updates for the yearly articles. For instance check out the articles about Sam Bradford or Colt McCory or Western Michigan. If you login, you can select what teams and players you want displayed on your main page. And no, I'm not affiliated with this site at all, I just know it will help me write the game updates since I can simply go to this one website that links to many different articles.↔ NMajdan• talk 04:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
A new editor, User:Drw859001 has been editing this article with text that clearly violates WP:NPOV; I have tried to have this user discuss the changes on the talk page, but he refuses to listen. Additionally, I have already reverted him twice, so I cannot do so again without violating WP:3RR; any help would be appreciated. Dlong 23:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
In the wake of Syracuse's upset over Louisville, I noticed that this Sports Illustrated page claims that Syracuse's victory is the biggest upset ever in terms of points spread (at 36.5 points). However, there's currently an article called 1985 Oregon State vs. Washington football game that claims that title at 38 points against the spread. Only one source claims that the spread was 38 points and two others say 37 points (and the SI article says it's at 36 points). Who's right here? Does the 1985 game even deserve an article?
Thanks in advance. CardinalHawk 21:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that we have our first FA, we have a good template for the perfect year-specific team article. I have been making little changes to the 2006 Oklahoma Sooners football team article over the last few days including some of the changes that were requested for the UT article. I think I've made all the dash changes and added non-breaking spaces. I've tried to remove all the little NPOV/fluff wording. Anyway, I am asking that project members, especially those active in the UT FA process, take a look at the article and let me know what you think. Thanks.↔ NMajdan• talk 21:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've been busy adding references to the article over the past month. I would appreciate it if anyone would take a look at it and leave whatever comments on the talk page. Thanks.↔ NMajdan• talk 17:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Someone who knows the score ought to take a look at College rivalry and Talk:College rivalry. It appears that IP editors have been inventing rivalries. One editor who wanted to stop the vandalism seemed to write up a request for page protection but posted it in the College rivalry article instead of at WP:RFPP. I'm going to be bold and try to clean up the mess but I have very, very little knowledge in the subject area so someone else might want to look a bit more carefully. Sbowers3 23:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
This is a discussion of whether a chart that interprets copyrighted material is itself a copyright violation, also whether forward-looking statistics violate the "crystal ball" tenet of Wikipedia. I, personally, don't think so. I've included my rationale below.-- Robapalooza 01:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
At the suggestion of B, I am bringing this matter to the attention of the present forum. I am the author of several charts that I've recently posted to various wikipedia sites regarding 2007 seasons (current event) of various college football teams, most of which are in the Atlantic Coast Conference. I have conducted an additional analysis of statistics prepared by Jeff Sagarin and posted at: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm
Although Mr. Sagarin creates the statistics that underly the analysis used to ultimately generate the chart, the chart is entirely my own work and believed to be within the scope and spirit of Wikipedia's policies.
Although the analysis is forward-looking, the statistics are compiled weekly and are, therefore, believed to be current and not a "crystal ball" type of observation. That is, Sagarin's statistical analysis and my separate analysis have already happened. Also, I have included these charts on sites that are dedicated to this year's season of college football for the various teams. The sites for these teams carry an appropriate current event tag, so I think the charts are appropriate for such pages. Sagarin's webpage is protected by copyright, which means you can't copy his content without permission. The charts do not copy his content. Rather, my analysis in an additional analysis of a selected portion of his statistics, and, I believe, is properly attributed. The chart is entirely my own work. If you look at Sagarin's statistics page, it's merely a list of numbers, and he suggests that you can "predict" the outcome of a future game by comparing numbers, but he does not perform such calculations for the reader. I've merely picked up where he left off and applied it to the ACC teams and South Carolina. Maintenance doesn't bother me. I run this analysis every week regardless. The images are easily updated using Wikipedia's tools.
I sincerely welcome your comments and suggestions in this matter.
Complete list of sites that include the charts in question:
-- Robapalooza 20:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I think all of the season articles should include rankings on the schedule. The ranks would give readers an idea of how tough the team's schedule may be. ESPN does this. The ranks, however, will have to be updated weekly as they change. What is everyone's opinion about this? BlueAg09 ( Talk) 18:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
This is not a big deal, but it would be best to link the following TV stations on the season schedules this way:
BlueAg09 ( Talk) 20:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
FYI: on 10/12, User:Darkwind (not a self-identified member of WP:CFB) AWBed many college coaches' articles using {{ CFB Coaching Record Team}} (deprecated) to convert to {{ CFB Yearly Record Start}} etc. but unfortunately, the params for bowl information do not match between the templates so you'll probably find your favorite coach's career record bowl info no longer displays correctly. Check Darkwind's contribs for possibly affected articles. AUTiger » talk 16:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Rather than discussing PROD-nominees here, it is better to contribute to the talk page for the article nominated for deletion. If you agree with the proposed deletion, you don't have to do anything or you may second the nomination. If you think the article merits keeping, then remove the {{prod}} template and make an effort to improve the article so that it clearly meets the notability and verifiability criteria.
There is now a proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#North American football players for a group which would work specifically on articles relating to biographies of individual players, coaches, and other related individuals. Any parties interested in working with such a group are encouraged to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start the group in earnest. Thank you. John Carter 13:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to suggest you add the BCS standings to {{ NCAATeamFootballSeason}}. Thank you.-- Monnitewars (talk) 02:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
There's something wrong with the article, it should be greatly expanded. For one his career at Michigan is less then a paragraph, while his 7 game stint with the Detroit Lions is given undue weight. Also I don't think it was a drunk driving incident that got him fired, I can't find any sources for that. - MichiganCharms 15:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
There's currently a dispute over whether or not it is too early to create 2008 team pages. One such discussion can be found here. From my point of view, it can never be too early to start collecting information about upcoming seasons. Input from the anyone in the college football community would be very helpful. Thanks. -- Hawk17 02:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I was editing a team page and noticed that they were adding the rankings beyond the top 25 (Others Receving Votes) and a wikipedian asked me the reasoning as to why I changed the teams rankings that were not in the Top 25 and I told him that we were trying to keep with the consistency of other pages and only include tne Top 25 rankings on the teams schedules and he told me that "It shows that the team is on the verge of cracking the top 25, and that they are garnering respect on a national level." My question to everyone is that; Should we include those who are "Others Receiving Votes" in the rankings on the team schedules? Dawg1279 04:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
You can't argue that the "Others recieving votes" aren't ranked 26-whatever number of teams there are recieving votes. If the polls were to expand past 25, those teams would have a number right next to them which corresponds past 25. As a matter of fact, Sportsline.com uses this method to show that the team recieved votes to be in the top 25 by both the AP and Coaches. Connecticut for example on sportsline is ranked 29th or somewhere in the general area because they have the corresponding number of votes which make them the 29th ranked team in the NCAA. I also don't understand how on a website which is a public domain mind you, people have the ability to decide which information can and cannot be displayed on a page. As long as the information is factual, there is no reason for it to be removed. If I take the time to create a page, and chose to include information which someone else doesn't agree with, they have the right to edit it, but they don't have the right to tell me that it shouldn't be included because it doesn't "mesh" with the other articles. If i take the time to make a page, and want to include information which is factual, and contributes to the use of he page, there is no reason as to why it shouldn't be included.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigblue1222 ( talk • contribs) 22:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
So you're going to tell me that the team that got the 26th most votes isn't the 26th ranked team? That's kind of hard to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.76.132.27 ( talk) 04:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
As I heard a law professor state one time, as soon as someone claims that something has been "clearly established" you can rest assured that it likely has NOT been clearly established. So, MECU, please link to the discussion(s) (i.e proposal or guideline articles in wikipedia) where this convention has "been clearly established both by the community and WP:CFB". Currently there is NO Official Wikipedia guidelines on this subject...indicating that it is NOT a settled convention. Please note that a wikiproject article is not the same as a guideline article. NONE OF YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO CLAIM THAT REASONABLE EDITS ARE VANDALISM OR OTHERWISE VIOLATE WIKIPEDIA POLICY WHEN THERE IS NO GUIDELINE ARTICLE ON THIS SUBJECT THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED BY CONCENSUS. B 16:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I do not see any references to the NAIA or NJCAA (junior college) football programs here. I believe that they do belong as the topic is currently named. I'd be willing to put work into the NAIA section.
If NAIA and NJCAA should be separate, then should this project be renamed "NCAA Football"??
Also, I could use some help on the infobox for Malone College Athletics--NCAA still shows up where the blank "division" category is.
What are everyone's thoughts? Combine forces? Separate projects?-- Paul McDonald 14:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Continued from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive-Oct2007
User:Robapalooza has continued to inclued this temporary, non-encyclopedic information into the articles. While I appreciate his efforts, my objections and the objections of others had been noted, and yet the charts continue. The information is definitely interesting, but it does not belong ( WP:CBALL, WP:IINFO). I feel the simple "betting line" serves this purpose best. -- mc machete 00:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I-A_national_football_championship This page has evolved into an unacceptable original research and synthesis project under Wikipedia guidelines. The tables listing national championships by year and total championships are synthesized from various sources, incompletely in some cases, and represented as an "authoritative" list. It inappropriately conveys the misconception that most of the pre-1935 champions were consensus picks, when in fact the opposite was quite true for reasons that I have added in the discussion in the article.
I am currently trying to resolve this issue with Iowa13, but have not gotten an adequate response other than a brush off. I urge that this article be demoted to "C" quality until this issue is resolved and the original research removed. Gvharrier 20:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I would appreciate any input about adding salaries to the coach infobox. A similar discussion is ongoing here. BlueAg09 ( Talk) 19:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Uhhh.....that is already in the template. It uses the Contract parameter but appears on the infobox as salary. You can use it to say what their contract is (i.e. $8 million for 3 years) or their actual salary (i.e. $189,000/year). The latter is better for assistant coaches. Check out Bob Stoops and Brent Venables. Also, Paul, I would agree that this information only belongs on the infobox while the coach is active. It should be removed when the coach retires.↔ NMajdan• talk 21:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I've recently submitted 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl for a featured article review. It's already been checked off as a good article, but I could really use some help in checking it over for redundant sentences, help in trimming the prose, and just general NPOV checks and clarity. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Together, we can make this the third featured article for the College Football Wikiproject. It's almost there... it just needs a little more help.
JKBrooks85 21:16, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
There is some discussion at Talk:2007 Trinity vs. Millsaps football game about what is a more appropriate "title" to use in the infobox for this game. We could use some outside opinions to help reach a conclusion. Thanks, Johntex\ talk 18:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, if this is a dumb question - I'm really new. What's with the red links at the top of this page, about the portal? Can anyone make those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by GTBuzzer ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a policy discussion that could affect articles created by this project. Please see this discussion about whether policy should forbid team logos to be placed on articles pertaining to individual seasons. You are invited to contribute to the discussion, if you wish. Best, Johntex\ talk 15:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
With bowl season approaching, I just wanted to remind everybody on the templates we have. {{ Collegebowl}} should be used on the general bowl game article (such as Poinsettia Bowl or Rose Bowl (game)). {{ Infobox CollegeFB Bowl}} should be used on the specific yearly game article (such as 2007 Poinsettia Bowl). At least, that is my general understanding of how these were meant to be used when they were created. Also, if anybody has some free time, {{ Infobox CollegeFB Bowl}} needs documentation created for it.↔ NMajdan• talk 15:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I'm new here, so I was wondering how I could upload a couple images from flickr. Here's a link: pictures. They are listed under some rights reserved so I think they can be uploaded. I think a couple could really work well in some Iowa articles. Thanks. - djkdan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djkdan ( talk • contribs) 03:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
That ONLY the TOP 25 ranked teams should be included on Team pages. Dawg1279 06:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Comments requested here.↔ NMajdan• talk 18:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I created a simple infobox for our main yearly article such as 2006 NCAA Division I FBS football season called {{ Infobox NCAA Division I FBS season}}. Long winded, I know, but I was going for accuracy (also, {{ Infobox NCAA Division I-A season}} redirects to the FBS one). So far, I have put it on the 2006 article and the 2007 article so you can see the difference between a completed season and an in-progress one. I modeled it after {{ Infobox NFL}}. What I like about this template is it automatically discerns between Division I-A and Division I FBS depending on the year, so the editor doesn't have to worry about it and it is always accurate. Take a look at it and let me know if I should make any changes or if you spot any errors. Also, any help on adding it to the other articles would be appreciated.↔ NMajdan• talk 16:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Someone changed the colors on the CFB Schedule template. I find them to be hard on the eyes. Just wondering what everyone else thinks. Template in question: Template:CFB Schedule Entry Example: 2007 LSU Tigers football team#Schedule I think the old colors were better. Seancp ( talk) 00:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
be placed at the top of all single-game college football articles, or just those without well-developed lead sections and infoboxes? !! time=18:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC) }}
Johntex and I have been having an interesting debate over the usage of the {{ NCAAFootballSingleGameHeader}} over on the FAC page for 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl (Shameless plug: stop by and leave comments if you get a chance). The debate centers around whether or not the template should uniformly head every single-game article or not.
My position is that for longer articles (like 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl), all the information in the template is already given in the infobox and in the lede paragraphs, so there's no need to put the template at the top of longer articles. Putting it at the top forces all the other information down the page and really overshadows the infobox and the lead paragraphs. I'm not saying that the template shouldn't be included at all — in my 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl article, I put it in the statistics section. It's a valuable way to express a lot of information in a short space, and looks pretty nice. I'm not even saying that it shouldn't head up a page — on shorter single-game articles, especially those without infoboxes, it's a great replacement for an infobox. But on longer articles, its size overwhelms the lead paragraphs of text and the lead infobox. My suggestion is that for longer articles, it should be placed at the end of the game recap section or in a separate game statistics section where it won't clutter up the top of the article and overwhelm the text.
Johntex's position (and please correct me, John) is that the template should be at the top of all single-game articles in order to achieve a common style for single-game college football articles. He feels that the template isn't distracting and doesn't overwhelm the rest of the text, even in longer articles. For an example, he suggests 2006 Alamo Bowl. John, please let me know if this is correct.
Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated. JKBrooks85 00:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I think that box is awesome. It is really useful and it should go right at the top of the article so it is the first thing seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GTBuzzer ( talk • contribs) 19:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) So people like it. I've seen many thousands of WP pages, and we're creating something new with this template. Is NCAA football so special that it needs different formatting from the other 2,000,000 articles we have? I think the answer is no. Let's extrapolate what using this template means to other articles. Should war/battle articles have a template at the top that list casualities? Probably not, that kind of info goes into the infobox. Should university articles have templates that list their cities and enrollment at the top? Again, that info goes in the infobox. TV shows could have templates at the top that list major characters and ratings. Basically, every major category of article could have a template at the top, but instead we put the info in the infobox and lead paragraphs. Articles on football games are a new phenomenom so they haven't been scrutinized, but there's now way that they can get their own WP:Manual of Style guidelines that allow strange stuff like templates above the lead. It looks like there are enough people who like the template (and frequent this page) to keep it for now. Instead of a temporary solution of ignoring the problem, we should just solve it. My first guess is that we include quarter scores in the infobox, and whatever other info the template has that the infobox doesn't have. Either that, or all the templats will be removed at a later date by people who know less about the subject than us. It's a no brainer, unless we think that using the templates for as long as we can (1-2 years at most) is the best thing to do. Anyways, if you don't agree I would like to hear why you think that it isn't inevitable that these templates will be prohibited from being at the top of the article. - Peregrine Fisher 06:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Comment was requested at Wikipedia policy, so I am here. This is the first I have seen of this template, and I do not think that it should be at the top of the article. It is so large as to push the textual introduction off the first screen of the browser. As a properly written article defines the subject in the first sentence, this shold be on the first screen. Readers should not have to scroll down to find out what an article is about. I can think of several ways that a reader unfamiliar with NCAA football would come upon one of these articles. The most obvious is the Random article link. Football players also have lives beyond their college careers and there are many former players who have prominence beyond there college careers. ( Gerald Ford, Steve Largent, and J. C. Watts come to mind off the top of my head). Articles on these players can very easily contain links to individual games that may be followed by people only or mostly familiar with the player's later career, and who are not familiar with college football. Dsmdgold 16:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
User:SportsMasterESPN keeps moving the 2007 LSU Tigers football team article to a new name. I have asked him repeatedly to keep it as 'LSU' and not 'Louisiana State' but I can't revert it again because of the 3RR. Please see my comments on Talk:2007 Louisiana State Tigers football team. I would like a final determination made so we can put this to rest. Thanks. Seancp ( talk) 20:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
This has been discussed at length above, but not for a few weeks and since then the template was put up for deletion. Since it has been up for two days here and only four editors have participated I thought I should bring it to some of the active editors working here since a discussion is going on right now about how it could be redesigned and many of the editors here work with the template. Phydend ( talk) 18:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I think I've got a pretty good working copy up at User:Nmajdan/Test. I made a few small changes to your design, but not much (namely, the format of the rankings). Hopefully, we'll also be able to get rid of the CollegeFB Bowl template since this template will work for bowl games or regular games. Let me know what you think.↔ NMajdan• talk 19:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I have implemented the new design so I ask that everybody take a look at articles that use this template and make sure that the template is working in all situations (always hard to test). Some things to look out for, the {{{city}}} is a required field and its missing on most instances so this field will need to be populated. Also, this template was designed to deprecate {{ Infobox CollegeFB Bowl}} so on bowl games articles, they will have two infoboxes. Delete the Bowl template and add the appropriate data to the GameHeader template. Thanks↔ NMajdan• talk 21:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
So anyway, mine and User:Bender235's 24 hour ban for edit-warring at Houston Nutt has ended. Bender has dove right back in reverting things that got us both banned in the first place. So rather than revert him, I'd just like to ask that others involved with WikiProject College football stop on by the Talk:Houston Nutt page and participate in some consensus discussion I am about to start. Thanks -- ALLSTAR echo 05:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Category:Nebraska Cornhuskers football players has a large list of subcategories for each player position and I haven't been able to find a another school with a similar setup. I'm just wondering if they need to all be eliminated, since the football players category suffices. DandyDan2007 ( talk) 01:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Should interim head coaches be listed in the team head coach templates? What is the consensus on this, if there is one? BlueAg09 ( Talk) 23:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
It's bowl season again, and I believe as a project, we need to try and agree on a uniform setup of bowl articles. Furthermore, we should ensure that all links included with each bowl article points to the correct bowl article. Remember, in order of preference, on bowl articles, links should point to:
I was browsing some of the bowl articles and I noticed we don't adhere to the general trend most of the time. Some bowl articles haven't been updated to the new formatting of Template:Collegebowl and some have last year's matchup as the "current" one. Please help out if you have the time. Comments? If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 02:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Getting back to the main topic of discussion...
If anyone has any time, we need to ensure that bowl-wide articles have the appropriately-directed links to the articles as described above. Thoughts? If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 19:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I have added a new section to the main page for listing articles being considered for deletion. This section is entitled Articles & Pages being considered for deletion, a subsection of College football articles needing help. I would understand if you prefer to not have such a section or to place it elsewhere, particularly since it was placed a non-Member of this WikiProject. Regards, User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 00:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Reading this signpost and then searching through the reported articles that will break once the limit of #ifexist is set back to 100, I came up with the following list of pages within this project that will break and the source needs to be fixed before next Monday when the temporary limit is reduced back to the hard limit:
I may have missed some pages in the list. I didn't look at the pages to see what the problem could be as I don't have time. MECU≈ talk 14:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
There was a discussion last week on the Village Pump about there being too many #ifexist statements on some templates and these were causing load issues on the servers. According to the Signpost, they have implemented a limit on the number of #ifexists an article can have, similar to the template limits that already exist. I was going through the list of articles that have an issue (its a long log file in the Signpost article) and one of our big articles is listed. They are going to limit the number of #ifexists to 100 per article and right now that article is using nearly 1000, so its definitely an issue (you can see the number by viewing the generated HTML, just as you would when viewing the template limit). However, looking at the code of the article and the code of the template, I do not see any #ifexists. I have asked about this at the VP to see if I get a response. Just thought I'd let all of you know.↔ NMajdan• talk 14:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm still trying to understand this issue fully, but what we need to do as a temporary (or permanent) solution, is to limit the use of cfb link. We can do this by only using it when we know a yearly article hasn't been created. For instance, when I start the 2008 Oklahoma Sooners football team article and I'm creating the schedule, I know that an article already exists for 2008 Texas Longhorn football team, so I will not use cfb link on that one. Also, go back and revisit articles that have already been created and make the change. Similar example, if I'm using cfb link on 2006 Oklahoma Sooners football team and, at the time, there was no 2006 Texas A&M page but there is now, I can replace cfb link with the specific link. Just an idea.↔ NMajdan• talk 14:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Wanted to bring up an administration question. With the rate this project is growing, the number of templates, infoboxes, and other tools used to build pages is growing rapidly. In addition, we're starting to get quite a few pages that should go through a GA-class or FA-class review. They're good, but don't have the peer reviews to get them through. With all that in mind, isn't it time that we voted on a few project coordinators/managers?
These people would be in charge of maintaining the project main page, keeping track of templates and infoboxes, give project members a heads-up on AFDs and other things, and take the lead on peer reviews and things like that. They'd also be the ones who would approve project awards — imagine a barnstar-like system that would award things like the Ray Guy trophy barnstar (example) to someone who did a particularly good job on an article or segment of the project. They'd run a project newsletter, and in general volunteer to help out folks interested in the project and maintain the portal.
Until yesterday, we had a dead link for the selected article on the portal — that's never a good thing for people looking for college football things on Wikipedia. If we really want to improve the project, we need at least some sort of structure. I'd propose elections for three coordinators who would fill the position for six months before a new election. What do you think? JKBrooks85 ( talk) 18:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if we need coordinators or not. I do know that I have had no trouble getting help from anyone on my NAIA work. The College Football gang has done a great job of stepping up and pitching in when I ask. So I'm saying that if it ain't broke, don't fix it...-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Someone has nominated Minnesota Golden Gophers football under Jim Wacker for deletion, suggesting that its content be merged onto the Jim Wacker page. I know this page format and its purpose has been discussed here before, so I wanted to mention this AfD so anyone who wants to discuss it can do it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minnesota Golden Gophers football under Jim Wacker. Gopherguy | Talk 22:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
(od) Oops; looks like no-one ever thought or got around to writing it up like Yearly team pages format. Guess we should. AUTiger » talk 19:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, I thought I'd be bold and get the ball rolling on a newsletter for the project. It may work out, it may not, but it could be potentially useful, and it might be a good idea to put the framework down even if the idea doesn't take off on a big basis. JKBrooks85 ( talk) 04:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl, an article that's been in the works for several months now, is up for its second FAC attempt. It failed the first time around due to a lack of support. I'd really appreciate it if folks could take a swing by the article and the comments page to leave suggestions or support. There aren't all that many featured articles in this project yet, but by just lending your support, this article will finally make it into the end zone. Thanks for your help. JKBrooks85 22:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Good news! Someone submitted it to the list, and it's currently taking on supporters to be featured on the front page for December 31st! JKBrooks85 ( talk) 03:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2006 Oklahoma Sooners football team.↔ NMajdan• talk 19:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm curious what everyone else thinks about this edit to 2006 NCAA Division I FBS football rankings which highlights Florida within the pre-season rankings collection. Is this desirable (and should carry through for this year and future years)? Should it be expanded to track the champion's performance through the other polls for the season? All or just BCS rankings and components (USAToday/Harris)? Thoughts? AUTiger » talk 02:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
User:Cbl62 and I have been refining {{ Michigan Wolverines Football}}. I think almost any BCS school may want to emulate it so we are bringing it to your attention. It looks like this:
-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTD) 23:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think everyone is missing the point. This is not an attempt to summarize Michigan Wolverines football. Much of the info on the template is not in the article. This is a navigational template to link most articles that are important to the football program. If I am looking at Desmond Howard and I want to know about other Michigan stars this directs me to them much the way {{ Heisman Winners}} would direct me to other Heisman templates. It has the advantage of replaceing multiple template for retired numbers, coaches, and each other section of the templat.e It is a useful navigational template and was inspired by the template at Walter O'Malley for the {{ Los Angeles Dodgers}}. It is common for other sports to use such summary navigational templates. See {{ New York Yankees}}. The Michigan template is longer than most would be because we have the 2nd most All-Americans and among the most active NFL alumni. I would guess that an Ole Miss template might be slightly shorter and an Auburn one might be as well but less so. The real chore of the template is the creation of articles for all the All-Americans that you will discover who don't have them. This will push programs to create articles for All-Americans who don't have article or who have stubs. You can see all the DYKs on my user page to see what we at Michigan have had to do in the last few weeks to make this look good.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTD) 07:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
WOW that's not a Navbox, that's a freaking article in itself: "LIST OF ALL COOL THINGS MICHIGAN FOOTBALL-ISH THAT WE CAN THINK OF" ... I don't like it, looks too busy to be useful...-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 22:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Some of you may have noticed that in a lot of the {{ College coach infobox}}es, the years and the teams at the bottom don't line up. It appears this is being caused by the <small></small> tags that are going around the coach's position. As I see them, I'm going to remove them. This is just a heads up in case anybody else notices the same thing, now you know how to resolve.↔ NMajdan• talk 18:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Please consider supporting Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Lists of Michigan Wolverines football receiving leaders.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTD) 15:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I was watching some of the Championships games last night (yes, I am a pro-playoff person) and a thought came to me: As UW-Whitewater won their first title in D-III, I could theoretically see a dedicated fan trying to create a page here. Now, going into the season, I wouldn't want to see season pages on every D-III team, or even the top-25 from D-II. However, I think once a team has won their title for that season (or even been the runner up), they are probably notable to warrant a single season page like the top-25 of D-IA. There might also be exceptional situations, like when a transitional team (moving up divisions) is #1 or #2 but is not qualified to be in the playoffs. Not that these pages must be made, but that, if they were made by editors, we would already agree that they have notability. That's my thought, I was hoping to get more input. -- Bobak ( talk) 17:59, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
FYI: There is an extremely large backlog of articles under the Sports and Recreation category over at Good Article Nominations. A number of college football articles are waiting for GA review, and if you have the time or inclination, I'm sure the authors would appreciate someone taking a look at them. I'll be digging in as well, but the sheer number of articles means that more hands are needed. Obviously, you shouldn't be reviewing an article to which you contributed, but it only makes sense that if you have knowledge of a subject that you should review it. Any help would be great. Thanks. JKBrooks85 ( talk) 00:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_nominations#Sports_and_recreation
For those of you that use an RSS/Atom reader, you can easilly keep track of the discussions here by going to the history part of this page, and then in the toolbox click RSS or Atom for your needs. MECU≈ talk 13:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Why don't the 2007 season articles have a link to the 2008 season? If you look at 2006 LSU Tigers football team you'll see that the infobox links to the previous and next years at the bottom. The 2007 LSU Tigers football team article only links to the previous year. And the 2008 LSU Tigers football team links to both the previous and next year. I have looked at the text and haven't seen anything noticeable that would cause this. So what gives? Now that 2008 season articles are being created, it would be nice if all the 2007 articles linked to them in the infobox....wouldn't you agree? Seancp ( talk) 15:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Lists of Michigan Wolverines football receiving leaders passed yesterday. Today, I nominated
Lists of Michigan Wolverines football rushing leaders and
Lists of Michigan Wolverines football passing leaders. Please consider supporting them as well.--
TonyTheTiger (
t/
c/
bio/
WP:CHICAGO/
WP:LOTD) 18:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey gang, I've made what I think to be some progress on the small college articles, particularly in the area of small college coaches. I'd like to get some feedback and pointers.
First, a list of samples: Ed Sweeney (football coach), Art Kahler, Harold Elliott (football coach), Jerry Kill (football coach), Craig Schurig (football coach), and Mike Gardner (football coach) are some of the articles that I've put solid work into.
Second, another list of samples: Tony DeMeo (football coach), Samuel Colgate, Jr. (football coach), Dick Biddle (football coach), and Jake Cabell (football coach) are samples of the 100 or 150 or so stub-articles that I've assembled on coaches.
Third, let me give you my procedure that I've been using so far: I started with my Alma Mater, Southwestern College (Kansas) with their press guide, which gave me a list of all coaches in the history of SC. One was a guy named Dennis Franchione, who we've all heard of... but the others didn't really have articles about them. So I put together a coach's Navbox for Southwestern, and realize that there are a bunch of coaches to work with. I assemble a stub article skeleton (like J. J. Thiel (football coach)) for each coach in the navbox and put it to Wikipedia if an article does not exist, or integrate it in to existing articles if it does exist. Then I start going through those coaches one at a time to write articles about them, create navboxes for other teams where they have coached, etc.
So I do that for Southwestern, and the very first coach I pick was |Bud Elliott. Turns out this guy has been head coach at six different colleges: [{Washburn University]], Emporia State, UT-Arlington, Northwest Missouri State, and Eastern New Mexico (plus Southwestern). So I've got some Navboxes to build there (can't find information on UT-Arlington, program discontinued. Drat!).
Anyway, that leads me to several other colleges, so I hit Washburn--about 40 coaches there, including a guy named John Outland (outland trophy) and another name Ellis Rainsberger, among others. So I build some quick stub-artilces there and make a navbox for Washburn.
My next stop for Elliott was Emporia State, which led me to Coach Kill, who went on to Southern Illinois University. I put a quick article together on him. The next day, ESPN announces he's been hired at Northern Illinois University, a Division I-A (or was that FBS?) school. Hallelujauh! Stub article is in place, and some NIU fans take over!
I go back to Southwestern and hit Art Kahler, which takes me to Dickinson College, which takes me to Colgate University... you get the picture.
Bottom line is this: I now have a SAS program that can take a "Coaching Record" page from the College Football Data Warehouse (Kansas State Example) and not only create a navbox, but stub articles. I can create an entire team worth of coaches and navboxes in about thirty minutes to an hour, depending on the number of coaches.
There's still some manual work to do, but it makes for a great start. But before I go any further on this, I want to get some feedback from everyone--should I attempt to add some more to the process or articles, or what? Suggestions? Comments??-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 19:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, gang! I'm moving forward with it. Yesterday I did Wichita State, and today I did Drake and Saginaw Valley State University coaches. Missing from this process would be a nice "team page" or even an athletics page, but I'm not getting that into it just yet... smaller schools may not need a specific "football" page methinks...
By the way, requests for me to process a smaller school can be made here or on my home page. Remember, they'll need to be in the College Football Data Warehouse...-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
This discussion has been archived. Please do not modify it. |
---|
The following is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. |
|
Anyone know if this is legit? Fumble Rumble MECU≈ talk 16:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
As documented here, a new FBS national champions table has been created and can be seen on my user page. The table documents both consensus and non-consensus champions from 1869 to the present (-1871), in accordance with the National Poll Champions and Consensus National Champions sections of the official NCAA record book and the table on the official NCAA sports site, along with notations of contemporaneous and retroactive champions and selectors. It also includes records for each team, and coaches, excluding the period from 1869 to 1887, when none of the teams had coaches, and Princeton (who did not have a coach until 1901) from 1889 to 1899. I have double-checked the information about a thousand times, and, although most of it is extremely in-depth, I would appreciate as many reviews for errors as possible before it "goes live". I plan on updating the table in the FBS national championship article as soon as possible, along with (a) new Most National Championship table(s). I also hope to clean up the rest of the article, with help from other users, as it is in dire need of revision (see StiltMonster's comment on the FBS national championship talk page). Iowa13 ( talk) 19:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a matter of styling and I cannot find if this has been discussed. Also, I do not know what the NY Times manual of style or otherwise might say about it. Anyway, I always understood that when naming a single game it was either
or
There are a number of regular season single game articles where it is the opposite (Visiting team vs. Home Team). I just need to know who belongs on what side of the vs. Thanks, Group29 ( talk) 16:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, I think I'm on to something but I'm not exactly sure how to prove it... Samuel Colgate was the football coach at Colgate University from 1890- 1892, and may have been the only person ever to be a head football coach whose name was the same as the university or college where he coached... any takers on that one??-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 22:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Anyone interested in possible policies (guidelines) about inclusion of university fight songs should review the discussion and offer your input at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Fight songs. AUTiger » talk 07:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
The big issue I see there is that "fight songs" don't necessarily belong to the football team. There are several good quality band pages where the topic is well-covered. For example, Kansas State University Marching Band (okay, I'm biased) but go to the bottom and see the category for University Maching Bands--and, of course, Wikipedia:WikiProject Marching band. HOWEVER, I would be very much in favor of listing the marching band project as a kind of "family member" to our project.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 15:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
In fact, since the marching band project says they "live across the street" from us, I'll go ahead and put it on the project page (I ran across and knocked, it's them--they were having a party).-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 15:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I was unclear, I didn't bring it up here proprosing that fight songs be a part of this wikiproject, but merely to inform likely interested editors about a discussion debating whether fight songs should be covered on Wikipedia at all. Good idea about the marching band project; I can't believe I didn't remember them since I'm a member there too. LOL. AUTiger » talk 21:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
![]() | College football Project‑class | ||||||
|
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
All right fellow loving disciples of college football, our religion begins another official season today. Let us be the monks who ensure that articles are properly updated and revised as the season progresses. ...and take some damn pictures (if you can) :-) -- Bobak 16:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
For anyone who goes to games, please remember to TAKE A CAMERA with you. I have a new camera for this season ... 7 megapixels and 10x zoom that I bought on sale for only $200. -- B 16:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Also try to keep game summaries to the team article only, don't create articles on games unless there has been historical significance per WP:N. Currently #5 Michigan is close to being upset by a Division-II school, unless it says upset of the century or something, keep the info to the 2007 Michigan football team article. I'm saying this because I expect some newer users create articles on their teams games. Does anyone else agree. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 18:59, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
They are the top Division-II school in the nation, not that big of an upset, if it was like a 0-10 Division-II team, then it will be the upset of the century and deserves it's own article, this doesn't. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 20:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I just created an article on the Appalachian State upset of Michigan. It's been nominated for deletion. If anyone wants to comment on it, go here. — Dale Arnett 05:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Guys, the media: LA Times, NY Times, SI, ESPN, have all called alternatively "the" but mostly "one of the" greatest upsets of all time. So, I'd say this is article worthy --it's just amazing to have it the first "week" after the Boise State-Oklahoma game. -- Bobak 17:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2006 Hawaii Bowl. Johntex\ talk 03:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Another notice for WPCFB members. We have eight images up for Selected Image for our Portal. I ask that everybody take a look at them and vote. Hopefully, we'll continue to have frequent nominations as the season progresses. Also, there is one old Selected Article nomination that needs more voters to determine a majority. Check out the nominations at Portal:College football/Selected Content/Nominations.↔ NMajdan• talk 02:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I put together an infobox for trophy games, feel free to take a look at it and comment. I took a look around at different articles and it seems there is a hodge podge out there. One standard seems to to have a toc for who won which years, such as Paul Bunyan's Axe, but it seems kind of messy to me to have logo images scattered about. It also seems a little redundant to have that toc listing the years each team won, followed by in many cases a complete list of scores, which gives you the same info. My main hope with the infobox was to integrate the logos into a better layout and this is what I ended up with. Here is the article: Floyd of Rosedale, and here is the template: User:Gopher backer/sandbox7. Feel free to do whatever with it. Gopher backer 06:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Due to the ongoing discussion on deletion and possible transwiki of 2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game to WikiNews, I suggest that the project hash out ASAP workable criteria for inclusion of individual college football game articles in Wikipedia.
Initial ideas:
I'll welcome all proposals. — Dale Arnett 05:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I feel really bad now about opening up such a can of worms on the topic of college football games.
It now looks like virtually all of the game articles will get shot down sooner or later. Also, I really believe the next step will be that someone will start putting up season articles for AfD, since a large part of them will from necessity be game recaps.
Maybe it's time that someone started a separate college football wiki, if it hasn't already been done, which can include team articles, season articles, people, places, history, and yes, games of true historic importance. Now, I don't have the time myself for something that ambitious... but I'd like to see what other folks think about this idea. — Dale Arnett 04:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Added comment: Many of the existing articles on individual games can't be put on Wikinews because they predate that project. Also, it's been pointed out that Wikipedia content can't be transwikied to Wikinews because of incompatible licenses, which means that even for those articles that conceivably could go into Wikinews, they would have to be redone from scratch. (Depending on the article, that might be a good thing, but still...) Which makes a dedicated college football wiki something worth considering, IMHO. — Dale Arnett 04:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I doubt it's needed, Division-I teams, and seasons are notable by defualt, games are the issues though, if they are of true historic importance, keep them, if it's a normal game, delete or merge to the indiviual season. It's fairly simple. Jaranda wat's sup Sports! 04:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
http://ncaawiki.com ↔ NMajdan• talk 21:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I am thinking of creating an article called List of current and former LSU Tigers football players because the list is getting quite long on the main page, and it has been argued (and I agree) that the main page lists too many players, many who weren't even that prominent. Also, what criteria determines "prominence"? So I figure a separate list would alleviate this, while not removing link to players who some consider to be not prominent. I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions. I don't want to create it if its just going to get AfD'd. Seancp 17:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't have the time to add this until next week, but I had the idea to add contract information to the Coach infobox. Length, guaranteed money and buyout information. Something like "Contract: $45M through 2013, $1.5M buyout", would require a cite of course. So this article would be a good example of things to start including. I don't expect this to be controversial, but feel free to comment. MECU≈ talk 12:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Is this information released for private school coaches? Plus, I know coaches get a 1 time bonus every few years they're at an institution. How do you factor that in? Corpx 14:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I know Mack was technically the highest paid coach two or 3 years ago because of a 1 time bonus of 3 million (I think). So, would you add bonuses like that to the salary of that year? Corpx 15:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I changed the format of the links to the previous and next seasons on the above template. It looks cleaner and is better centered, which was an issue we've had in the past with the template. Let me know what you think and definitely let me know if you find an article my change broke. I checked several football articles and a basketball and baseball article and they look fine.↔ NMajdan• talk 17:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I am incredibly pleased to announce that 2005 Texas Longhorn football team has been recognized as a featured article. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this article through edits, suggestions, and peer review.
Now that we've gotten one through, hopefully we can start progressing others through the FA system.
It seems that every FA nomination is unique in terms of what gets scrutinized. However, certain things took a lot of tedious time to fix and so I will list them out here in the hopes that other editors can avoid these problems while the are writing, instead of having to go back and fix them all:
You can check the nomination page for more detail. The nomination even got restarted once because there were so many little things being flagged and fixed.
Thanks again for everyone's help. We can all be proud of this milestone for the project. Johntex\ talk 05:35, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Can anybody think of a way for us to combine all the coach templates that may be on a coach's article into one? Take a look at Howard Schnellenberger. He has five coaching templates. I would really like to have a way to keep the individual templates, but, to have another "container" template that combines them into one and hides them. Basically, kinda like {{ WikiProjectBannerShell}} except for coaching templates. Of course, we want to keep the custom colors that exist for the individual school. Any ideas? Should we request assistance at WP:VPT or WP:WPT?↔ NMajdan• talk 03:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a tremendously disruptive dispute between PSU fans and FSU fans at Bobby Bowden ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Joe Paterno ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The PSU fans want it noted that some of Bowden's wins were at a school that is currently in the division formerly known as I-AA (although at the time he was there, it was before the DI split happened). The FSU fans want to retaliate by noting that JoePa was hospitalized during some of his wins. It would be great if some more uninvolved people would help revert vandalism, opine, and referee. -- B 00:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Here are two more FAs that are related to college football:
The Aggie Bonfire tradition was formed to help pump up Texas A&M prior to their rivalry game against Texas. The tradition would not exist if not for college football. The Aggie band is a marching band and those have a military tradition. Therefore, one could argue that A&M would have a band even without college football, but I think it is safe to say that their half-time performances are what has made the band famous.
I think the pageantry of college football (traditions, mascots, rivalry trophies, etc) are a large part of what makes college football great. I believe those two articles (and others like them) should be tagged as being a part of this project. Thoughts? Johntex\ talk 00:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I've seen a lot of player "fan sites" lately. A lot of them are just link aggregators. They usually have the athletes name as their domain name. See [1] for an example. Several times, I've seen ones like this where the person adds a link to the website and an interwiki link to a non-existent page. (I'm not sure what that accomplishes.) I imagine that a lot of these websites are owned by the same person or organization. These aren't real fan sites where there is an actual community. Has anyone else noticed links like this? -- B 07:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Found a site that links to a lot of news articles about a given topic, whether that topic is a team or a player or a specific sports writer. SportsUltra.com. Definitely handy when writing game updates for the yearly articles. For instance check out the articles about Sam Bradford or Colt McCory or Western Michigan. If you login, you can select what teams and players you want displayed on your main page. And no, I'm not affiliated with this site at all, I just know it will help me write the game updates since I can simply go to this one website that links to many different articles.↔ NMajdan• talk 04:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
A new editor, User:Drw859001 has been editing this article with text that clearly violates WP:NPOV; I have tried to have this user discuss the changes on the talk page, but he refuses to listen. Additionally, I have already reverted him twice, so I cannot do so again without violating WP:3RR; any help would be appreciated. Dlong 23:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
In the wake of Syracuse's upset over Louisville, I noticed that this Sports Illustrated page claims that Syracuse's victory is the biggest upset ever in terms of points spread (at 36.5 points). However, there's currently an article called 1985 Oregon State vs. Washington football game that claims that title at 38 points against the spread. Only one source claims that the spread was 38 points and two others say 37 points (and the SI article says it's at 36 points). Who's right here? Does the 1985 game even deserve an article?
Thanks in advance. CardinalHawk 21:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that we have our first FA, we have a good template for the perfect year-specific team article. I have been making little changes to the 2006 Oklahoma Sooners football team article over the last few days including some of the changes that were requested for the UT article. I think I've made all the dash changes and added non-breaking spaces. I've tried to remove all the little NPOV/fluff wording. Anyway, I am asking that project members, especially those active in the UT FA process, take a look at the article and let me know what you think. Thanks.↔ NMajdan• talk 21:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I've been busy adding references to the article over the past month. I would appreciate it if anyone would take a look at it and leave whatever comments on the talk page. Thanks.↔ NMajdan• talk 17:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Someone who knows the score ought to take a look at College rivalry and Talk:College rivalry. It appears that IP editors have been inventing rivalries. One editor who wanted to stop the vandalism seemed to write up a request for page protection but posted it in the College rivalry article instead of at WP:RFPP. I'm going to be bold and try to clean up the mess but I have very, very little knowledge in the subject area so someone else might want to look a bit more carefully. Sbowers3 23:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
This is a discussion of whether a chart that interprets copyrighted material is itself a copyright violation, also whether forward-looking statistics violate the "crystal ball" tenet of Wikipedia. I, personally, don't think so. I've included my rationale below.-- Robapalooza 01:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
At the suggestion of B, I am bringing this matter to the attention of the present forum. I am the author of several charts that I've recently posted to various wikipedia sites regarding 2007 seasons (current event) of various college football teams, most of which are in the Atlantic Coast Conference. I have conducted an additional analysis of statistics prepared by Jeff Sagarin and posted at: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm
Although Mr. Sagarin creates the statistics that underly the analysis used to ultimately generate the chart, the chart is entirely my own work and believed to be within the scope and spirit of Wikipedia's policies.
Although the analysis is forward-looking, the statistics are compiled weekly and are, therefore, believed to be current and not a "crystal ball" type of observation. That is, Sagarin's statistical analysis and my separate analysis have already happened. Also, I have included these charts on sites that are dedicated to this year's season of college football for the various teams. The sites for these teams carry an appropriate current event tag, so I think the charts are appropriate for such pages. Sagarin's webpage is protected by copyright, which means you can't copy his content without permission. The charts do not copy his content. Rather, my analysis in an additional analysis of a selected portion of his statistics, and, I believe, is properly attributed. The chart is entirely my own work. If you look at Sagarin's statistics page, it's merely a list of numbers, and he suggests that you can "predict" the outcome of a future game by comparing numbers, but he does not perform such calculations for the reader. I've merely picked up where he left off and applied it to the ACC teams and South Carolina. Maintenance doesn't bother me. I run this analysis every week regardless. The images are easily updated using Wikipedia's tools.
I sincerely welcome your comments and suggestions in this matter.
Complete list of sites that include the charts in question:
-- Robapalooza 20:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I think all of the season articles should include rankings on the schedule. The ranks would give readers an idea of how tough the team's schedule may be. ESPN does this. The ranks, however, will have to be updated weekly as they change. What is everyone's opinion about this? BlueAg09 ( Talk) 18:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
This is not a big deal, but it would be best to link the following TV stations on the season schedules this way:
BlueAg09 ( Talk) 20:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
FYI: on 10/12, User:Darkwind (not a self-identified member of WP:CFB) AWBed many college coaches' articles using {{ CFB Coaching Record Team}} (deprecated) to convert to {{ CFB Yearly Record Start}} etc. but unfortunately, the params for bowl information do not match between the templates so you'll probably find your favorite coach's career record bowl info no longer displays correctly. Check Darkwind's contribs for possibly affected articles. AUTiger » talk 16:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Rather than discussing PROD-nominees here, it is better to contribute to the talk page for the article nominated for deletion. If you agree with the proposed deletion, you don't have to do anything or you may second the nomination. If you think the article merits keeping, then remove the {{prod}} template and make an effort to improve the article so that it clearly meets the notability and verifiability criteria.
There is now a proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#North American football players for a group which would work specifically on articles relating to biographies of individual players, coaches, and other related individuals. Any parties interested in working with such a group are encouraged to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start the group in earnest. Thank you. John Carter 13:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to suggest you add the BCS standings to {{ NCAATeamFootballSeason}}. Thank you.-- Monnitewars (talk) 02:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
There's something wrong with the article, it should be greatly expanded. For one his career at Michigan is less then a paragraph, while his 7 game stint with the Detroit Lions is given undue weight. Also I don't think it was a drunk driving incident that got him fired, I can't find any sources for that. - MichiganCharms 15:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
There's currently a dispute over whether or not it is too early to create 2008 team pages. One such discussion can be found here. From my point of view, it can never be too early to start collecting information about upcoming seasons. Input from the anyone in the college football community would be very helpful. Thanks. -- Hawk17 02:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I was editing a team page and noticed that they were adding the rankings beyond the top 25 (Others Receving Votes) and a wikipedian asked me the reasoning as to why I changed the teams rankings that were not in the Top 25 and I told him that we were trying to keep with the consistency of other pages and only include tne Top 25 rankings on the teams schedules and he told me that "It shows that the team is on the verge of cracking the top 25, and that they are garnering respect on a national level." My question to everyone is that; Should we include those who are "Others Receiving Votes" in the rankings on the team schedules? Dawg1279 04:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
You can't argue that the "Others recieving votes" aren't ranked 26-whatever number of teams there are recieving votes. If the polls were to expand past 25, those teams would have a number right next to them which corresponds past 25. As a matter of fact, Sportsline.com uses this method to show that the team recieved votes to be in the top 25 by both the AP and Coaches. Connecticut for example on sportsline is ranked 29th or somewhere in the general area because they have the corresponding number of votes which make them the 29th ranked team in the NCAA. I also don't understand how on a website which is a public domain mind you, people have the ability to decide which information can and cannot be displayed on a page. As long as the information is factual, there is no reason for it to be removed. If I take the time to create a page, and chose to include information which someone else doesn't agree with, they have the right to edit it, but they don't have the right to tell me that it shouldn't be included because it doesn't "mesh" with the other articles. If i take the time to make a page, and want to include information which is factual, and contributes to the use of he page, there is no reason as to why it shouldn't be included.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigblue1222 ( talk • contribs) 22:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
So you're going to tell me that the team that got the 26th most votes isn't the 26th ranked team? That's kind of hard to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.76.132.27 ( talk) 04:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
As I heard a law professor state one time, as soon as someone claims that something has been "clearly established" you can rest assured that it likely has NOT been clearly established. So, MECU, please link to the discussion(s) (i.e proposal or guideline articles in wikipedia) where this convention has "been clearly established both by the community and WP:CFB". Currently there is NO Official Wikipedia guidelines on this subject...indicating that it is NOT a settled convention. Please note that a wikiproject article is not the same as a guideline article. NONE OF YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO CLAIM THAT REASONABLE EDITS ARE VANDALISM OR OTHERWISE VIOLATE WIKIPEDIA POLICY WHEN THERE IS NO GUIDELINE ARTICLE ON THIS SUBJECT THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED BY CONCENSUS. B 16:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I do not see any references to the NAIA or NJCAA (junior college) football programs here. I believe that they do belong as the topic is currently named. I'd be willing to put work into the NAIA section.
If NAIA and NJCAA should be separate, then should this project be renamed "NCAA Football"??
Also, I could use some help on the infobox for Malone College Athletics--NCAA still shows up where the blank "division" category is.
What are everyone's thoughts? Combine forces? Separate projects?-- Paul McDonald 14:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Continued from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive-Oct2007
User:Robapalooza has continued to inclued this temporary, non-encyclopedic information into the articles. While I appreciate his efforts, my objections and the objections of others had been noted, and yet the charts continue. The information is definitely interesting, but it does not belong ( WP:CBALL, WP:IINFO). I feel the simple "betting line" serves this purpose best. -- mc machete 00:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I-A_national_football_championship This page has evolved into an unacceptable original research and synthesis project under Wikipedia guidelines. The tables listing national championships by year and total championships are synthesized from various sources, incompletely in some cases, and represented as an "authoritative" list. It inappropriately conveys the misconception that most of the pre-1935 champions were consensus picks, when in fact the opposite was quite true for reasons that I have added in the discussion in the article.
I am currently trying to resolve this issue with Iowa13, but have not gotten an adequate response other than a brush off. I urge that this article be demoted to "C" quality until this issue is resolved and the original research removed. Gvharrier 20:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I would appreciate any input about adding salaries to the coach infobox. A similar discussion is ongoing here. BlueAg09 ( Talk) 19:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Uhhh.....that is already in the template. It uses the Contract parameter but appears on the infobox as salary. You can use it to say what their contract is (i.e. $8 million for 3 years) or their actual salary (i.e. $189,000/year). The latter is better for assistant coaches. Check out Bob Stoops and Brent Venables. Also, Paul, I would agree that this information only belongs on the infobox while the coach is active. It should be removed when the coach retires.↔ NMajdan• talk 21:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I've recently submitted 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl for a featured article review. It's already been checked off as a good article, but I could really use some help in checking it over for redundant sentences, help in trimming the prose, and just general NPOV checks and clarity. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Together, we can make this the third featured article for the College Football Wikiproject. It's almost there... it just needs a little more help.
JKBrooks85 21:16, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
There is some discussion at Talk:2007 Trinity vs. Millsaps football game about what is a more appropriate "title" to use in the infobox for this game. We could use some outside opinions to help reach a conclusion. Thanks, Johntex\ talk 18:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, if this is a dumb question - I'm really new. What's with the red links at the top of this page, about the portal? Can anyone make those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by GTBuzzer ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a policy discussion that could affect articles created by this project. Please see this discussion about whether policy should forbid team logos to be placed on articles pertaining to individual seasons. You are invited to contribute to the discussion, if you wish. Best, Johntex\ talk 15:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
With bowl season approaching, I just wanted to remind everybody on the templates we have. {{ Collegebowl}} should be used on the general bowl game article (such as Poinsettia Bowl or Rose Bowl (game)). {{ Infobox CollegeFB Bowl}} should be used on the specific yearly game article (such as 2007 Poinsettia Bowl). At least, that is my general understanding of how these were meant to be used when they were created. Also, if anybody has some free time, {{ Infobox CollegeFB Bowl}} needs documentation created for it.↔ NMajdan• talk 15:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I'm new here, so I was wondering how I could upload a couple images from flickr. Here's a link: pictures. They are listed under some rights reserved so I think they can be uploaded. I think a couple could really work well in some Iowa articles. Thanks. - djkdan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djkdan ( talk • contribs) 03:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
That ONLY the TOP 25 ranked teams should be included on Team pages. Dawg1279 06:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Comments requested here.↔ NMajdan• talk 18:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I created a simple infobox for our main yearly article such as 2006 NCAA Division I FBS football season called {{ Infobox NCAA Division I FBS season}}. Long winded, I know, but I was going for accuracy (also, {{ Infobox NCAA Division I-A season}} redirects to the FBS one). So far, I have put it on the 2006 article and the 2007 article so you can see the difference between a completed season and an in-progress one. I modeled it after {{ Infobox NFL}}. What I like about this template is it automatically discerns between Division I-A and Division I FBS depending on the year, so the editor doesn't have to worry about it and it is always accurate. Take a look at it and let me know if I should make any changes or if you spot any errors. Also, any help on adding it to the other articles would be appreciated.↔ NMajdan• talk 16:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Someone changed the colors on the CFB Schedule template. I find them to be hard on the eyes. Just wondering what everyone else thinks. Template in question: Template:CFB Schedule Entry Example: 2007 LSU Tigers football team#Schedule I think the old colors were better. Seancp ( talk) 00:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
be placed at the top of all single-game college football articles, or just those without well-developed lead sections and infoboxes? !! time=18:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC) }}
Johntex and I have been having an interesting debate over the usage of the {{ NCAAFootballSingleGameHeader}} over on the FAC page for 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl (Shameless plug: stop by and leave comments if you get a chance). The debate centers around whether or not the template should uniformly head every single-game article or not.
My position is that for longer articles (like 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl), all the information in the template is already given in the infobox and in the lede paragraphs, so there's no need to put the template at the top of longer articles. Putting it at the top forces all the other information down the page and really overshadows the infobox and the lead paragraphs. I'm not saying that the template shouldn't be included at all — in my 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl article, I put it in the statistics section. It's a valuable way to express a lot of information in a short space, and looks pretty nice. I'm not even saying that it shouldn't head up a page — on shorter single-game articles, especially those without infoboxes, it's a great replacement for an infobox. But on longer articles, its size overwhelms the lead paragraphs of text and the lead infobox. My suggestion is that for longer articles, it should be placed at the end of the game recap section or in a separate game statistics section where it won't clutter up the top of the article and overwhelm the text.
Johntex's position (and please correct me, John) is that the template should be at the top of all single-game articles in order to achieve a common style for single-game college football articles. He feels that the template isn't distracting and doesn't overwhelm the rest of the text, even in longer articles. For an example, he suggests 2006 Alamo Bowl. John, please let me know if this is correct.
Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated. JKBrooks85 00:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I think that box is awesome. It is really useful and it should go right at the top of the article so it is the first thing seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GTBuzzer ( talk • contribs) 19:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) So people like it. I've seen many thousands of WP pages, and we're creating something new with this template. Is NCAA football so special that it needs different formatting from the other 2,000,000 articles we have? I think the answer is no. Let's extrapolate what using this template means to other articles. Should war/battle articles have a template at the top that list casualities? Probably not, that kind of info goes into the infobox. Should university articles have templates that list their cities and enrollment at the top? Again, that info goes in the infobox. TV shows could have templates at the top that list major characters and ratings. Basically, every major category of article could have a template at the top, but instead we put the info in the infobox and lead paragraphs. Articles on football games are a new phenomenom so they haven't been scrutinized, but there's now way that they can get their own WP:Manual of Style guidelines that allow strange stuff like templates above the lead. It looks like there are enough people who like the template (and frequent this page) to keep it for now. Instead of a temporary solution of ignoring the problem, we should just solve it. My first guess is that we include quarter scores in the infobox, and whatever other info the template has that the infobox doesn't have. Either that, or all the templats will be removed at a later date by people who know less about the subject than us. It's a no brainer, unless we think that using the templates for as long as we can (1-2 years at most) is the best thing to do. Anyways, if you don't agree I would like to hear why you think that it isn't inevitable that these templates will be prohibited from being at the top of the article. - Peregrine Fisher 06:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Comment was requested at Wikipedia policy, so I am here. This is the first I have seen of this template, and I do not think that it should be at the top of the article. It is so large as to push the textual introduction off the first screen of the browser. As a properly written article defines the subject in the first sentence, this shold be on the first screen. Readers should not have to scroll down to find out what an article is about. I can think of several ways that a reader unfamiliar with NCAA football would come upon one of these articles. The most obvious is the Random article link. Football players also have lives beyond their college careers and there are many former players who have prominence beyond there college careers. ( Gerald Ford, Steve Largent, and J. C. Watts come to mind off the top of my head). Articles on these players can very easily contain links to individual games that may be followed by people only or mostly familiar with the player's later career, and who are not familiar with college football. Dsmdgold 16:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
User:SportsMasterESPN keeps moving the 2007 LSU Tigers football team article to a new name. I have asked him repeatedly to keep it as 'LSU' and not 'Louisiana State' but I can't revert it again because of the 3RR. Please see my comments on Talk:2007 Louisiana State Tigers football team. I would like a final determination made so we can put this to rest. Thanks. Seancp ( talk) 20:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
This has been discussed at length above, but not for a few weeks and since then the template was put up for deletion. Since it has been up for two days here and only four editors have participated I thought I should bring it to some of the active editors working here since a discussion is going on right now about how it could be redesigned and many of the editors here work with the template. Phydend ( talk) 18:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I think I've got a pretty good working copy up at User:Nmajdan/Test. I made a few small changes to your design, but not much (namely, the format of the rankings). Hopefully, we'll also be able to get rid of the CollegeFB Bowl template since this template will work for bowl games or regular games. Let me know what you think.↔ NMajdan• talk 19:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I have implemented the new design so I ask that everybody take a look at articles that use this template and make sure that the template is working in all situations (always hard to test). Some things to look out for, the {{{city}}} is a required field and its missing on most instances so this field will need to be populated. Also, this template was designed to deprecate {{ Infobox CollegeFB Bowl}} so on bowl games articles, they will have two infoboxes. Delete the Bowl template and add the appropriate data to the GameHeader template. Thanks↔ NMajdan• talk 21:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
So anyway, mine and User:Bender235's 24 hour ban for edit-warring at Houston Nutt has ended. Bender has dove right back in reverting things that got us both banned in the first place. So rather than revert him, I'd just like to ask that others involved with WikiProject College football stop on by the Talk:Houston Nutt page and participate in some consensus discussion I am about to start. Thanks -- ALLSTAR echo 05:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Category:Nebraska Cornhuskers football players has a large list of subcategories for each player position and I haven't been able to find a another school with a similar setup. I'm just wondering if they need to all be eliminated, since the football players category suffices. DandyDan2007 ( talk) 01:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Should interim head coaches be listed in the team head coach templates? What is the consensus on this, if there is one? BlueAg09 ( Talk) 23:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
It's bowl season again, and I believe as a project, we need to try and agree on a uniform setup of bowl articles. Furthermore, we should ensure that all links included with each bowl article points to the correct bowl article. Remember, in order of preference, on bowl articles, links should point to:
I was browsing some of the bowl articles and I noticed we don't adhere to the general trend most of the time. Some bowl articles haven't been updated to the new formatting of Template:Collegebowl and some have last year's matchup as the "current" one. Please help out if you have the time. Comments? If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 02:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Getting back to the main topic of discussion...
If anyone has any time, we need to ensure that bowl-wide articles have the appropriately-directed links to the articles as described above. Thoughts? If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 19:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I have added a new section to the main page for listing articles being considered for deletion. This section is entitled Articles & Pages being considered for deletion, a subsection of College football articles needing help. I would understand if you prefer to not have such a section or to place it elsewhere, particularly since it was placed a non-Member of this WikiProject. Regards, User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 00:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Reading this signpost and then searching through the reported articles that will break once the limit of #ifexist is set back to 100, I came up with the following list of pages within this project that will break and the source needs to be fixed before next Monday when the temporary limit is reduced back to the hard limit:
I may have missed some pages in the list. I didn't look at the pages to see what the problem could be as I don't have time. MECU≈ talk 14:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
There was a discussion last week on the Village Pump about there being too many #ifexist statements on some templates and these were causing load issues on the servers. According to the Signpost, they have implemented a limit on the number of #ifexists an article can have, similar to the template limits that already exist. I was going through the list of articles that have an issue (its a long log file in the Signpost article) and one of our big articles is listed. They are going to limit the number of #ifexists to 100 per article and right now that article is using nearly 1000, so its definitely an issue (you can see the number by viewing the generated HTML, just as you would when viewing the template limit). However, looking at the code of the article and the code of the template, I do not see any #ifexists. I have asked about this at the VP to see if I get a response. Just thought I'd let all of you know.↔ NMajdan• talk 14:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm still trying to understand this issue fully, but what we need to do as a temporary (or permanent) solution, is to limit the use of cfb link. We can do this by only using it when we know a yearly article hasn't been created. For instance, when I start the 2008 Oklahoma Sooners football team article and I'm creating the schedule, I know that an article already exists for 2008 Texas Longhorn football team, so I will not use cfb link on that one. Also, go back and revisit articles that have already been created and make the change. Similar example, if I'm using cfb link on 2006 Oklahoma Sooners football team and, at the time, there was no 2006 Texas A&M page but there is now, I can replace cfb link with the specific link. Just an idea.↔ NMajdan• talk 14:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Wanted to bring up an administration question. With the rate this project is growing, the number of templates, infoboxes, and other tools used to build pages is growing rapidly. In addition, we're starting to get quite a few pages that should go through a GA-class or FA-class review. They're good, but don't have the peer reviews to get them through. With all that in mind, isn't it time that we voted on a few project coordinators/managers?
These people would be in charge of maintaining the project main page, keeping track of templates and infoboxes, give project members a heads-up on AFDs and other things, and take the lead on peer reviews and things like that. They'd also be the ones who would approve project awards — imagine a barnstar-like system that would award things like the Ray Guy trophy barnstar (example) to someone who did a particularly good job on an article or segment of the project. They'd run a project newsletter, and in general volunteer to help out folks interested in the project and maintain the portal.
Until yesterday, we had a dead link for the selected article on the portal — that's never a good thing for people looking for college football things on Wikipedia. If we really want to improve the project, we need at least some sort of structure. I'd propose elections for three coordinators who would fill the position for six months before a new election. What do you think? JKBrooks85 ( talk) 18:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if we need coordinators or not. I do know that I have had no trouble getting help from anyone on my NAIA work. The College Football gang has done a great job of stepping up and pitching in when I ask. So I'm saying that if it ain't broke, don't fix it...-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Someone has nominated Minnesota Golden Gophers football under Jim Wacker for deletion, suggesting that its content be merged onto the Jim Wacker page. I know this page format and its purpose has been discussed here before, so I wanted to mention this AfD so anyone who wants to discuss it can do it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minnesota Golden Gophers football under Jim Wacker. Gopherguy | Talk 22:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
(od) Oops; looks like no-one ever thought or got around to writing it up like Yearly team pages format. Guess we should. AUTiger » talk 19:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, I thought I'd be bold and get the ball rolling on a newsletter for the project. It may work out, it may not, but it could be potentially useful, and it might be a good idea to put the framework down even if the idea doesn't take off on a big basis. JKBrooks85 ( talk) 04:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl, an article that's been in the works for several months now, is up for its second FAC attempt. It failed the first time around due to a lack of support. I'd really appreciate it if folks could take a swing by the article and the comments page to leave suggestions or support. There aren't all that many featured articles in this project yet, but by just lending your support, this article will finally make it into the end zone. Thanks for your help. JKBrooks85 22:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Good news! Someone submitted it to the list, and it's currently taking on supporters to be featured on the front page for December 31st! JKBrooks85 ( talk) 03:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2006 Oklahoma Sooners football team.↔ NMajdan• talk 19:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm curious what everyone else thinks about this edit to 2006 NCAA Division I FBS football rankings which highlights Florida within the pre-season rankings collection. Is this desirable (and should carry through for this year and future years)? Should it be expanded to track the champion's performance through the other polls for the season? All or just BCS rankings and components (USAToday/Harris)? Thoughts? AUTiger » talk 02:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
User:Cbl62 and I have been refining {{ Michigan Wolverines Football}}. I think almost any BCS school may want to emulate it so we are bringing it to your attention. It looks like this:
-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTD) 23:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I think everyone is missing the point. This is not an attempt to summarize Michigan Wolverines football. Much of the info on the template is not in the article. This is a navigational template to link most articles that are important to the football program. If I am looking at Desmond Howard and I want to know about other Michigan stars this directs me to them much the way {{ Heisman Winners}} would direct me to other Heisman templates. It has the advantage of replaceing multiple template for retired numbers, coaches, and each other section of the templat.e It is a useful navigational template and was inspired by the template at Walter O'Malley for the {{ Los Angeles Dodgers}}. It is common for other sports to use such summary navigational templates. See {{ New York Yankees}}. The Michigan template is longer than most would be because we have the 2nd most All-Americans and among the most active NFL alumni. I would guess that an Ole Miss template might be slightly shorter and an Auburn one might be as well but less so. The real chore of the template is the creation of articles for all the All-Americans that you will discover who don't have them. This will push programs to create articles for All-Americans who don't have article or who have stubs. You can see all the DYKs on my user page to see what we at Michigan have had to do in the last few weeks to make this look good.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTD) 07:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
WOW that's not a Navbox, that's a freaking article in itself: "LIST OF ALL COOL THINGS MICHIGAN FOOTBALL-ISH THAT WE CAN THINK OF" ... I don't like it, looks too busy to be useful...-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 22:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Some of you may have noticed that in a lot of the {{ College coach infobox}}es, the years and the teams at the bottom don't line up. It appears this is being caused by the <small></small> tags that are going around the coach's position. As I see them, I'm going to remove them. This is just a heads up in case anybody else notices the same thing, now you know how to resolve.↔ NMajdan• talk 18:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Please consider supporting Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Lists of Michigan Wolverines football receiving leaders.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTD) 15:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I was watching some of the Championships games last night (yes, I am a pro-playoff person) and a thought came to me: As UW-Whitewater won their first title in D-III, I could theoretically see a dedicated fan trying to create a page here. Now, going into the season, I wouldn't want to see season pages on every D-III team, or even the top-25 from D-II. However, I think once a team has won their title for that season (or even been the runner up), they are probably notable to warrant a single season page like the top-25 of D-IA. There might also be exceptional situations, like when a transitional team (moving up divisions) is #1 or #2 but is not qualified to be in the playoffs. Not that these pages must be made, but that, if they were made by editors, we would already agree that they have notability. That's my thought, I was hoping to get more input. -- Bobak ( talk) 17:59, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
FYI: There is an extremely large backlog of articles under the Sports and Recreation category over at Good Article Nominations. A number of college football articles are waiting for GA review, and if you have the time or inclination, I'm sure the authors would appreciate someone taking a look at them. I'll be digging in as well, but the sheer number of articles means that more hands are needed. Obviously, you shouldn't be reviewing an article to which you contributed, but it only makes sense that if you have knowledge of a subject that you should review it. Any help would be great. Thanks. JKBrooks85 ( talk) 00:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_nominations#Sports_and_recreation
For those of you that use an RSS/Atom reader, you can easilly keep track of the discussions here by going to the history part of this page, and then in the toolbox click RSS or Atom for your needs. MECU≈ talk 13:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Why don't the 2007 season articles have a link to the 2008 season? If you look at 2006 LSU Tigers football team you'll see that the infobox links to the previous and next years at the bottom. The 2007 LSU Tigers football team article only links to the previous year. And the 2008 LSU Tigers football team links to both the previous and next year. I have looked at the text and haven't seen anything noticeable that would cause this. So what gives? Now that 2008 season articles are being created, it would be nice if all the 2007 articles linked to them in the infobox....wouldn't you agree? Seancp ( talk) 15:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Lists of Michigan Wolverines football receiving leaders passed yesterday. Today, I nominated
Lists of Michigan Wolverines football rushing leaders and
Lists of Michigan Wolverines football passing leaders. Please consider supporting them as well.--
TonyTheTiger (
t/
c/
bio/
WP:CHICAGO/
WP:LOTD) 18:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey gang, I've made what I think to be some progress on the small college articles, particularly in the area of small college coaches. I'd like to get some feedback and pointers.
First, a list of samples: Ed Sweeney (football coach), Art Kahler, Harold Elliott (football coach), Jerry Kill (football coach), Craig Schurig (football coach), and Mike Gardner (football coach) are some of the articles that I've put solid work into.
Second, another list of samples: Tony DeMeo (football coach), Samuel Colgate, Jr. (football coach), Dick Biddle (football coach), and Jake Cabell (football coach) are samples of the 100 or 150 or so stub-articles that I've assembled on coaches.
Third, let me give you my procedure that I've been using so far: I started with my Alma Mater, Southwestern College (Kansas) with their press guide, which gave me a list of all coaches in the history of SC. One was a guy named Dennis Franchione, who we've all heard of... but the others didn't really have articles about them. So I put together a coach's Navbox for Southwestern, and realize that there are a bunch of coaches to work with. I assemble a stub article skeleton (like J. J. Thiel (football coach)) for each coach in the navbox and put it to Wikipedia if an article does not exist, or integrate it in to existing articles if it does exist. Then I start going through those coaches one at a time to write articles about them, create navboxes for other teams where they have coached, etc.
So I do that for Southwestern, and the very first coach I pick was |Bud Elliott. Turns out this guy has been head coach at six different colleges: [{Washburn University]], Emporia State, UT-Arlington, Northwest Missouri State, and Eastern New Mexico (plus Southwestern). So I've got some Navboxes to build there (can't find information on UT-Arlington, program discontinued. Drat!).
Anyway, that leads me to several other colleges, so I hit Washburn--about 40 coaches there, including a guy named John Outland (outland trophy) and another name Ellis Rainsberger, among others. So I build some quick stub-artilces there and make a navbox for Washburn.
My next stop for Elliott was Emporia State, which led me to Coach Kill, who went on to Southern Illinois University. I put a quick article together on him. The next day, ESPN announces he's been hired at Northern Illinois University, a Division I-A (or was that FBS?) school. Hallelujauh! Stub article is in place, and some NIU fans take over!
I go back to Southwestern and hit Art Kahler, which takes me to Dickinson College, which takes me to Colgate University... you get the picture.
Bottom line is this: I now have a SAS program that can take a "Coaching Record" page from the College Football Data Warehouse (Kansas State Example) and not only create a navbox, but stub articles. I can create an entire team worth of coaches and navboxes in about thirty minutes to an hour, depending on the number of coaches.
There's still some manual work to do, but it makes for a great start. But before I go any further on this, I want to get some feedback from everyone--should I attempt to add some more to the process or articles, or what? Suggestions? Comments??-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 19:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, gang! I'm moving forward with it. Yesterday I did Wichita State, and today I did Drake and Saginaw Valley State University coaches. Missing from this process would be a nice "team page" or even an athletics page, but I'm not getting that into it just yet... smaller schools may not need a specific "football" page methinks...
By the way, requests for me to process a smaller school can be made here or on my home page. Remember, they'll need to be in the College Football Data Warehouse...-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
This discussion has been archived. Please do not modify it. |
---|
The following is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. |
|
Anyone know if this is legit? Fumble Rumble MECU≈ talk 16:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
As documented here, a new FBS national champions table has been created and can be seen on my user page. The table documents both consensus and non-consensus champions from 1869 to the present (-1871), in accordance with the National Poll Champions and Consensus National Champions sections of the official NCAA record book and the table on the official NCAA sports site, along with notations of contemporaneous and retroactive champions and selectors. It also includes records for each team, and coaches, excluding the period from 1869 to 1887, when none of the teams had coaches, and Princeton (who did not have a coach until 1901) from 1889 to 1899. I have double-checked the information about a thousand times, and, although most of it is extremely in-depth, I would appreciate as many reviews for errors as possible before it "goes live". I plan on updating the table in the FBS national championship article as soon as possible, along with (a) new Most National Championship table(s). I also hope to clean up the rest of the article, with help from other users, as it is in dire need of revision (see StiltMonster's comment on the FBS national championship talk page). Iowa13 ( talk) 19:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a matter of styling and I cannot find if this has been discussed. Also, I do not know what the NY Times manual of style or otherwise might say about it. Anyway, I always understood that when naming a single game it was either
or
There are a number of regular season single game articles where it is the opposite (Visiting team vs. Home Team). I just need to know who belongs on what side of the vs. Thanks, Group29 ( talk) 16:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, I think I'm on to something but I'm not exactly sure how to prove it... Samuel Colgate was the football coach at Colgate University from 1890- 1892, and may have been the only person ever to be a head football coach whose name was the same as the university or college where he coached... any takers on that one??-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 22:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Anyone interested in possible policies (guidelines) about inclusion of university fight songs should review the discussion and offer your input at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Fight songs. AUTiger » talk 07:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
The big issue I see there is that "fight songs" don't necessarily belong to the football team. There are several good quality band pages where the topic is well-covered. For example, Kansas State University Marching Band (okay, I'm biased) but go to the bottom and see the category for University Maching Bands--and, of course, Wikipedia:WikiProject Marching band. HOWEVER, I would be very much in favor of listing the marching band project as a kind of "family member" to our project.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 15:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
In fact, since the marching band project says they "live across the street" from us, I'll go ahead and put it on the project page (I ran across and knocked, it's them--they were having a party).-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 15:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I was unclear, I didn't bring it up here proprosing that fight songs be a part of this wikiproject, but merely to inform likely interested editors about a discussion debating whether fight songs should be covered on Wikipedia at all. Good idea about the marching band project; I can't believe I didn't remember them since I'm a member there too. LOL. AUTiger » talk 21:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)