This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Improved article, added a fuller list of books he has authored as well as establishing a picture and info box. Please visit this page and contribute with information and references. I have found it extremely difficult to find information on him (although well known). most of the accredited to the amount of boks he has written and therefore many results found through a search are only about purchasing his books. please take some to check out the article and add some information that is dearly needed. thank you for your time, Matthew Yeager 05:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
We've kind of danced around how to categorize chess players from the former Soviet Union. So far, we've tried to categorize them in the appropriate Category:Chess players by nationality subcat for their home republic. I think we should continue to do this, but I also think we need to put them in a Category:Soviet chess players or Category:USSR chess players. The era of Soviet dominance of chess is important enough that it should be reflected in our categorizations, and we also have the difficulty that sometimes categorizing by home republic alone doesn't really fit well. No one should ever forget that Paul Keres was Estonian, but (please forgive me if this is a bad example) Efim Geller seems to be more accurately described as a Soviet than a Ukrainian, although of course both are correct. I think we should use both cats. What do our chess biographers think? Quale 05:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I went through the cats we have for the former republics of the USSR and added Category:Soviet chess players to the appropriate pages, or at least the ones that seemed appropriate to me. It wasn't always possible for me to determine whether the cat was appropriate, so I erred on the side of not adding it if I was unsure. That means I have surely left a few bios out of the cat that should be in, but I hope I haven't put any in (or at least not many) that shouldn't be. Roughly the criteria I used, was add Soviet chess players if
There's a problem with some use of the Category:Chess players by nationality subcats—I think they're used too liberally. Irina Krush was in Category:Ukrainian chess players. Admitedly this is a borderline case. She learned the moves in Ukraine at age 5 and then left promptly later that same year. No indication of tournament play or chess training in Ukraine, so I don't think that cat is appropriate and I removed it. Ukrainian-Americans would make sense, and then when category intersection is available some people might find it helpful. We also have had Bobby Fischer repeatedly put in Category:Icelandic chess players which in my view is just dumb. If Fischer plays a serious game of chess as an Icelandic citizen or does any significant chess writing as an Icelander the cat would be appropriate. I'm not holding my breath. If Karpov completely quit competitive chess today, and then 12+ years later retired to Aruba, would we categorize him as an Aruban chess player? (Karpov still plays exhibitions, which is more chess activity than Fischer has done in the last 25 years.) Taken to the logical extreme, Sergey Karjakin should be in the Soviet chess players cat since he was one year old before the USSR broke up. To me this is just common sense, but as has been often noted, common sense isn't very common. Sorry for venting.... Quale 15:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The Soviet case is a special example, as made by history. I think that a dual or perhaps triple classification for certain players is best, according to circumstances. For Keres Estonian / Soviet, for Bronstein Ukrainian / Soviet, for Korchnoi Soviet / Swiss, for Gulko Soviet / American, for Bohatirchuk Ukrainian / Soviet / Canadian, for Flohr Czechoslovakian / Soviet, for Lilienthal Hungarian / Soviet, and so on. For some it may be Soviet / Russian, or Russian / Soviet, if they were ethnic Russians, born before the founding of the USSR, or having lived after it ended. Best, Frank Dixon May 22, 2007.
By the way, Bobby Fischer - an American champion - as an Icelandic citizen (by his own choice) is an Icelandic chess player, like Alexei Shirov is Latvian/Spanish or Miguel Najdorf - Polish/Argentine. It has sense more than classification for Fricis Apšenieks as a Soviet chess player (because of occupation of Latvia by Soviets, one year before his death). And other example: such players like Winawer, Rosenthal, Sittenfeld, Taubenhaus, Salwe, Rubinstein, Flamberg, Przepiórka, Cukierman, Tartakower, Popiel, etc., were "Russian" or "Austrian" chess players because of occupation of Poland. All the best, Mibelz 20:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi Quale! In my opinion, Category:Chess players by nationality cannot include such categories like Category:Soviet chess players, Category:Austria-Hungarian chess players, Category:Czechoslovakian chess players, Category:Yugoslav chess players, etc. They were countries, not nationalities. There is also some problem with Category:British chess players because of Category:English chess players, Category:Scottish chess players and even Category:Irish chess players.... Mibelz 21:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I've brought this issue up here, since lack of communication among chess editors in the past has hurt the quality of articles.
81.84.238.135 ( talk · contribs) added links to chessbook.net on several chess opening articles, which User:Silly rabbit and I reverted. 68.239.79.82 ( talk · contribs) reverted our changes, citing similarities between chessbook.net and chessgames.com - see comments here.
I removed the links to chessbook.net in the first place because its homepage states it is a "database of online blitz chess games", which aren't treated seriously by most chess players, and particularly not as a source of opening theory. On the other hand, chessgames is a general database, and almost all the games it contains are serious tournament games, which are much more valuable. Judging from the widespread use of Template:Chessgames player, there seems to be consensus that chessgames.com is indeed a useful resource, but I'm not convinced that chessbook.net is nearly as helpful. Thoughts, anyone? youngvalter 04:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
that has a |date=
value extracted from the EL reference so that it can be
verified from microfiche at a local library ... I just omit (or remove) the |url=
that automagically links the |title=
value. —
68.239.79.82
18:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)Our page for Dragoljub Minić currently says that he was Croatian, but an anon commented that he was a Serb. His places of birth ( Titograd) and death ( Novi Sad) strongly suggest Serb is correct. Does anyone know for sure? I have also asked at WikiProject Serbia hoping to get some help. Quale 03:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking at some of these articles I am trying to improve... Wikipedia is not a "How to"... play chess. Don't say "you" or "your opponent". W1k13rh3nry 03:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Category:Chess national championships has many articles that haven't been ranked by importance. Also unclear seems to be whether the articles can be classified as list-class or whether they should be something more. I think it is obvious that the articles need some background and context in addition to the list of champions. If there is only the list I'd classify the article as a stub. However, I'm not sure what to do with the importance ratings. Maybe rank all nations as equals and rate the articles as, say, mid-importance? Then again honestly I don't know if the Chilean Chess Championship is as important an article as, say, the Russian Chess Championship. But how to form some guidelines? -- ZeroOne ( talk | @) 23:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
(The same problem applies to national chess organizations.) -- ZeroOne ( talk | @) 23:31, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oxford University Chess Club.....
BD_(Fairy_chess_piece) is a mirror of [ the Chess Variant Pages article about it]. There are probably more of these too. W1k13rh3nry 21:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Using Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser I have compared the chess related articles in:
I have added the template (without rating) where it was missing. Now theses three classes contain the same articles, grand total of 1874. When you create a new chess related article is created, please add the template and add it to the list of chess topics. Voorlandt 08:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Chess.com is up for speedy delete. Bubba73 (talk), 06:10, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Improved article, added a fuller list of books he has authored as well as establishing a picture and info box. Please visit this page and contribute with information and references. I have found it extremely difficult to find information on him (although well known). most of the accredited to the amount of boks he has written and therefore many results found through a search are only about purchasing his books. please take some to check out the article and add some information that is dearly needed. thank you for your time, Matthew Yeager 05:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
We've kind of danced around how to categorize chess players from the former Soviet Union. So far, we've tried to categorize them in the appropriate Category:Chess players by nationality subcat for their home republic. I think we should continue to do this, but I also think we need to put them in a Category:Soviet chess players or Category:USSR chess players. The era of Soviet dominance of chess is important enough that it should be reflected in our categorizations, and we also have the difficulty that sometimes categorizing by home republic alone doesn't really fit well. No one should ever forget that Paul Keres was Estonian, but (please forgive me if this is a bad example) Efim Geller seems to be more accurately described as a Soviet than a Ukrainian, although of course both are correct. I think we should use both cats. What do our chess biographers think? Quale 05:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I went through the cats we have for the former republics of the USSR and added Category:Soviet chess players to the appropriate pages, or at least the ones that seemed appropriate to me. It wasn't always possible for me to determine whether the cat was appropriate, so I erred on the side of not adding it if I was unsure. That means I have surely left a few bios out of the cat that should be in, but I hope I haven't put any in (or at least not many) that shouldn't be. Roughly the criteria I used, was add Soviet chess players if
There's a problem with some use of the Category:Chess players by nationality subcats—I think they're used too liberally. Irina Krush was in Category:Ukrainian chess players. Admitedly this is a borderline case. She learned the moves in Ukraine at age 5 and then left promptly later that same year. No indication of tournament play or chess training in Ukraine, so I don't think that cat is appropriate and I removed it. Ukrainian-Americans would make sense, and then when category intersection is available some people might find it helpful. We also have had Bobby Fischer repeatedly put in Category:Icelandic chess players which in my view is just dumb. If Fischer plays a serious game of chess as an Icelandic citizen or does any significant chess writing as an Icelander the cat would be appropriate. I'm not holding my breath. If Karpov completely quit competitive chess today, and then 12+ years later retired to Aruba, would we categorize him as an Aruban chess player? (Karpov still plays exhibitions, which is more chess activity than Fischer has done in the last 25 years.) Taken to the logical extreme, Sergey Karjakin should be in the Soviet chess players cat since he was one year old before the USSR broke up. To me this is just common sense, but as has been often noted, common sense isn't very common. Sorry for venting.... Quale 15:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The Soviet case is a special example, as made by history. I think that a dual or perhaps triple classification for certain players is best, according to circumstances. For Keres Estonian / Soviet, for Bronstein Ukrainian / Soviet, for Korchnoi Soviet / Swiss, for Gulko Soviet / American, for Bohatirchuk Ukrainian / Soviet / Canadian, for Flohr Czechoslovakian / Soviet, for Lilienthal Hungarian / Soviet, and so on. For some it may be Soviet / Russian, or Russian / Soviet, if they were ethnic Russians, born before the founding of the USSR, or having lived after it ended. Best, Frank Dixon May 22, 2007.
By the way, Bobby Fischer - an American champion - as an Icelandic citizen (by his own choice) is an Icelandic chess player, like Alexei Shirov is Latvian/Spanish or Miguel Najdorf - Polish/Argentine. It has sense more than classification for Fricis Apšenieks as a Soviet chess player (because of occupation of Latvia by Soviets, one year before his death). And other example: such players like Winawer, Rosenthal, Sittenfeld, Taubenhaus, Salwe, Rubinstein, Flamberg, Przepiórka, Cukierman, Tartakower, Popiel, etc., were "Russian" or "Austrian" chess players because of occupation of Poland. All the best, Mibelz 20:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi Quale! In my opinion, Category:Chess players by nationality cannot include such categories like Category:Soviet chess players, Category:Austria-Hungarian chess players, Category:Czechoslovakian chess players, Category:Yugoslav chess players, etc. They were countries, not nationalities. There is also some problem with Category:British chess players because of Category:English chess players, Category:Scottish chess players and even Category:Irish chess players.... Mibelz 21:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I've brought this issue up here, since lack of communication among chess editors in the past has hurt the quality of articles.
81.84.238.135 ( talk · contribs) added links to chessbook.net on several chess opening articles, which User:Silly rabbit and I reverted. 68.239.79.82 ( talk · contribs) reverted our changes, citing similarities between chessbook.net and chessgames.com - see comments here.
I removed the links to chessbook.net in the first place because its homepage states it is a "database of online blitz chess games", which aren't treated seriously by most chess players, and particularly not as a source of opening theory. On the other hand, chessgames is a general database, and almost all the games it contains are serious tournament games, which are much more valuable. Judging from the widespread use of Template:Chessgames player, there seems to be consensus that chessgames.com is indeed a useful resource, but I'm not convinced that chessbook.net is nearly as helpful. Thoughts, anyone? youngvalter 04:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
that has a |date=
value extracted from the EL reference so that it can be
verified from microfiche at a local library ... I just omit (or remove) the |url=
that automagically links the |title=
value. —
68.239.79.82
18:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)Our page for Dragoljub Minić currently says that he was Croatian, but an anon commented that he was a Serb. His places of birth ( Titograd) and death ( Novi Sad) strongly suggest Serb is correct. Does anyone know for sure? I have also asked at WikiProject Serbia hoping to get some help. Quale 03:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking at some of these articles I am trying to improve... Wikipedia is not a "How to"... play chess. Don't say "you" or "your opponent". W1k13rh3nry 03:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Category:Chess national championships has many articles that haven't been ranked by importance. Also unclear seems to be whether the articles can be classified as list-class or whether they should be something more. I think it is obvious that the articles need some background and context in addition to the list of champions. If there is only the list I'd classify the article as a stub. However, I'm not sure what to do with the importance ratings. Maybe rank all nations as equals and rate the articles as, say, mid-importance? Then again honestly I don't know if the Chilean Chess Championship is as important an article as, say, the Russian Chess Championship. But how to form some guidelines? -- ZeroOne ( talk | @) 23:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
(The same problem applies to national chess organizations.) -- ZeroOne ( talk | @) 23:31, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oxford University Chess Club.....
BD_(Fairy_chess_piece) is a mirror of [ the Chess Variant Pages article about it]. There are probably more of these too. W1k13rh3nry 21:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Using Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser I have compared the chess related articles in:
I have added the template (without rating) where it was missing. Now theses three classes contain the same articles, grand total of 1874. When you create a new chess related article is created, please add the template and add it to the list of chess topics. Voorlandt 08:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Chess.com is up for speedy delete. Bubba73 (talk), 06:10, 30 June 2007 (UTC)