This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Alright, I'm going to go full speed on my bird videos. I've removed the watermarks so they can be usable for Wikipedia. There's now a small copyright notice at the bottom - off picture - and not referring to any website. This way there'll be some kind of reminder. Does it pass muster? Meanwhile, here are links for editors to add to articles if they'd like. Painted Bunting sings- [1] Golden-cheeked warbler sings [2] Yellow-breasted Chat sings- [3] Brown creeper creeps and calls- [4] black-throated gray warbler sings and forages- [5] BirdViewer ( talk) 17:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
I know how much everyone loves tasks, so I've put this one on the tasklist. I reviewed our bird family pages and made a note of which ones were stubs. It would be great if all our family pages were at least better than stubs. I mostly went by what the article review said; in some cases articles are listed as start that are only just start or arguably even stubs. At any rate there is plenty to do here. We probably won't get all of them done, theer are simply some families for which hardly any info exists. Melanocharitidae is a good example, I tried to expand it last year but drew a blank info-wise, although it is slated to be in the next HBW. Anyway, if you have some time add a few lines to these articles and take them off the list. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I search for etymology of Mallard and platyrhynchos. Thank. 86.72.170.168 ( talk) 22:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Can do with more eyes and hands as it stands on FAC Shyamal ( talk) 04:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Just added Bird atlas. Shyamal ( talk) 11:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Bird is now the top hit on google for keywords "bird", "birds" and it seems to be getting http://stats.grok.se/en/200801/Bird 116901 (Jan), 132310 (Feb) hits. Clear weekend lulls ! Shyamal ( talk) 11:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Some expert attention might help at the Afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brazilian Parrots
Togian White-eye! Does anyone have access to the Wilson Journal of Ornithology? It would be nice to flesh it out, perhaps "Did you know?" it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
FWIW I figure it's about as comprehensive as it can be without delving more into offline ornithological journals. I have put it up at GAN. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 04:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
The SACC is proposing to list Gallinula chloropus as the Common Gallinule instead of Common Moorhen. Maybe I shouldn't mention this here, but it got me curious about how birders and ornithologists would react to the change, and I just started a thread at rec.birds about it, if you'd care to participate. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I have polished this up a bit and is now looking quite nice. Anyone feel free to chip in and help. I have not completed referencing, mainly wasn't sure about obviously notable thngs like March of the Penguins etc. I know they will have to be done for FAC though...Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 13:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
An article that has been newly created Egg tossing (behavior) may well be worthy of merging into Infanticide (zoology). However it may be well worth keeping if there is substantial bird-related material. Shyamal ( talk) 09:24, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
A page for the Vermiculated Sceech-owl was requested and someone without knowledge of the split made the page. Not sure how you can deal with this but right now there are two pages for Megascops guatemalae and still none for the real Vermiculated Screech-owl, Megascops vermiculatus. RN1970 ( talk) 12:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't know much about this and just asked a friend who does to make sure I got it right in my last post and (luckily!) I did. The two articles are both wrong if only having a single species. The name Guatemalan Screech-owl is only used for M. guatemalae when the more southernly forms are treated as separate species:
If only having a single species the single species is the Vermiculated Screech-owl, M. guatemalae and all other are subspecies of it. The name Guatemalan Screech-owl is only used for M. guatemalae when the other are different species. RN1970 ( talk) 09:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Does the above name refer to a race of Dendrocopos medius or is it one of Dendrocopos syriacus or some other? The pictured species is from the Persian region and is figured in Blanford's Persian Boundary Commission report. Shyamal ( talk) 14:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
The new paper is out, I have commented on it. What do you think? Fat books will need to be read - the system Wikipedia uses is from 1931, in its non-recognition of the "true eagle" clade! Dysmorodrepanis ( talk) 22:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone in recent times actually put this into Netta? The IUCN does not even discuss anymore that it was once proposed. Dysmorodrepanis ( talk) 05:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Livezey to argue that the two should be regarded as congeneric. With Rhodonessa coined by Reichenbach in 1853 and Netta by Kaup in 1859, the former supposedly had priority, so the Red-crested pochard – a familiar species to anyone that knows ducks – became renamed Rhodonessa rufina (Livezey 1996).
However, Livezey had made a mistake, as Kaup named Netta in 1829, not 1859, so in later publications he switched things round, now sinking the Pink-headed duck into Netta, and hence renaming it Netta caryophyllacea (Livezey 1997). This hasn’t been widely accepted however.
The Pink-headed Duck article cites the Livezey paper and puts it in Netta. The blog author however suggests that the two genera should be left alone ! Shyamal ( talk) 15:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
here I started a list of bird articles which are blessed with either a Featured Pic or havea good selection of images to illustrate an article. Given this can be the hard part of improving an article, I thought listing a few of those articles may be another place for folks to choose from. Please add more if/when you find them Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 03:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Mentioned in the recent news letter, i am looking for someone to help lead this task force. respond on my tak page please. - Tobi4242 ( talk) 00:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Chough now at FAC,
Emperor Penguin soon to follow as well
Jimfbleak (
talk) 12:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, a day late, this should have made it to the newsletter ! [7] Shyamal ( talk) 03:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to suggest adding a list-class category, as there are lots of bird list pages and other wikiprojects have these, however I have no idea how to do this Dixonsej ( talk) 13:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, do we all feel these are synonymous? If so, which one do folks prefer?
PS: Sorry I forgot to add that I've been using Distribution and habitat, so I did mean 'X' and habitat WRT this poll. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 18:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
This is definitely even better especially when habitat associations and preferences are better understood. The most unusual heading for this is Occurs used in Rasmussen & Anderton(2005) The Birds of South Asia. Shyamal ( talk) 16:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Emperor Penguin now promoted to FA, Chough still at FAC Jimfbleak ( talk) 17:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Green Peafowl seems to be brimming with WP:OR. This concern has been raised many times in the past. Shyamal ( talk) 02:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Southern ground-hornbill needs moving back to Southern Ground-hornbill or Southern Ground Hornbill to accord with project naming policy. Maias ( talk) 03:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I was wanting to edit this template but wanted to run this by everyone at first. Sometimes when I am flicking between pages, the handiest page to jot things on is this one - i.e. discussion page of the birds wikiproject. I think it would be good having a direct link on the template to the discussion page of the project (some other templates such as Wikiproject Medicine do already). Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 05:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Just for Shyamal
Requesting an article on the naming of birds including matters of Latin, English and other languages. History, standardization attempts and other matters could go there. A summary should appear also in the Bird article. It is something that many non-birders are surprised by. Shyamal ( talk) 05:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
User:4444hhhh has been moving the template footer birds to template dinosaurs ( edit history here.) It got moved back once with a request that consensus be sought, but he has moved it back. While no one here doubts that birds are descended from dinosaurs, I don't think there is any benefit in converting a bird template into a bird and dinosaur template. I've moved the template back and reverted the changes for now. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, given these two are synonymous, we may as well have all the bird articles having the same ones. Which do we prefer? Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I just (prematurely) moved List of birds of Tasmania to List of Tasmanian birds thinking all our FLs were like this - then I looked at a few (oops). Do we have a preference what we call them all?
I am completely stumped and couldn't make up my mind actually, by a whisker I like (1) but not by much...Cheers,
Casliber (
talk ·
contribs) 10:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Am I mistaken and we discuss this before and I missed it? Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 10:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I've just been told on the Science Ref Desk that the dead bird in this picture is a Northern Gannet. Another picture (where the head is more clearly seen) is here. I'm seeking more opinion here, just to be absolutely certain. I don't suppose any article will want a picture of a dead gannet (though we do have a roadkill article, we don't have a seakill article!), but maybe someone will one day. Maybe Wikibooks or something. Any ideas what might have killed it? I think it got washed ashore. Oh, and I know the filename is wrong. :-) Actually, if you guys don't mind, could you comment on Image:Swan grooming plumage.jpg and Image:Swan eating grass.jpg and Image:Dove house.jpg? Any chance of saying something more specific than "swan" and "dove" for these? Carcharoth ( talk) 21:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
At a complete back track... If you do want a few photos of some dead birds then I'll be happy to CC any of the ones on this page: http://www.pbase.com/wangi/portobello_beach_dead thanks/ wangi ( talk) 21:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there enough interest to start an WikiProject:Aviculture? Possibly as a sub project of WP:Birds. Just to gauge the level interest, can the people interested form a list here? Snowman ( talk) 21:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I've just joined WP, so am new to all this. I work as a companion parrot behaviourist in the UK and am interested in the welfare of birds in aviculture I'm also interested in wild birds, and came to WP looking for info on sexual dimorphism in adult Jackdaws (C. monedula) (No, I didn't find it!) If an Aviculture section was started, I would contribute to it. Alfie1960 ( talk) 09:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Would anyone else be interested in starting an aviculture taskforce? I, for one, would be interested in such an undertaking.-- OnorioCatenacci ( talk) 19:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Worth taking a look at. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Aviculture Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Commons has two pictures of Canada Geese in mating-season display: this and this. I think either would be a good addition to Canada Goose, but I'm recusing myself from the decision because of bias. (I also linked to versions without author information in case anyone else is biased by names.) So which should it be? If you've got a clear preference, you can probably just be bold and add it to the article, maybe where the crèche is now and move that picture down a little. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I've been thinking lately about the titles of the family articles. In the past most of these have settled the common name for the family, except where the common name is a double (Shearwaters and petrels, for example, which according to MOS is incorrect, and thus is at Procellariidae). There has been a tendency lately, not widespread mind, for articles to get moved from this for rather pedentic reasons. Oriole got moved from the family page to the genus page because of one member of the family that is called the Figbird. Likewise Dove got moved to Columbidae, which although more accurate is less intuitive to members of the general public (for whom, generally, we are writing this). Lorikeet got moved to the Lories and lorikeets because "some of them are Lories, not lorikeets" (never figured out if the two are interchangeable like dove/pigeon, heron/egret), which while preferable to Loriinae as a title for the lay reader is unfortunately incompatible with the MOS (and harder to work into links). I'm a tad worried that soon people will be calling for Cuckoo to be moved to Cuculidae because some cuckoos are called anis or coucals or koels, or any variation on that theme.
I wonder if we need to expand the guidelines we have Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds#Bird names and article titles. Basically something like article titles for taxa higher should preferably use established common names for families unless the common name is plural. Common names are mostly taken from the HBW, so we could use their names [8] as the standard. Thus cuckoo would stay where it is, as the common name for the family in toto. Procellariidae would have to stay where it is because the established common name for the family is plural. Etc etc etc. And Oriole can go back to being the family page, not the genus one. Thoughts? Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks to those who helped get this through. It must be unusual for an article to change its name halfway through FAC too! Jimfbleak ( talk) 06:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Salaman and Barlow in The Firefly Encyclopedia of Birds say that the tropical members of Vireonidae (or just of Vireo?) maintain year-round territories and the northern migrants maintain winter territories, but Howell says that lots of species in both categories join mixed feeding flocks and that the Warbling Vireo is a dominant species in such flocks. Who's right? Could they just join the flocks when the flocks enter their territories? Does anyone have a better source?
Also, currently vireo redirects to Vireonidae. I'd kind of prefer it to be the name of Vireo (genus), but I note that Howell calls the Vireonidae "vireos", as do Salaman and Barlow. Any thoughts? Using "vireos" for the whole family is convenient in the family article, not so much in the genus article. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 22:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I recently discovered this Flickr user who has about 500 great photos of Neotropical birds. I found it through an image uploaded onto the commons, but I don't think it has much been raided for Wiki needs. It is in Spanish so has eluded my earlier attempts to find South American bird images. He has binomial species names for all the images though Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Some very nice photos but are they reliable? I browsed around and stumpled upon several places where the identification was questioned. See some of the comments under these [11], [12], [13], [14], [15] and [16]. Can someone check them? At least one of them is already used on wikipedia: White-spotted Woodpecker. RN1970 ( talk) 05:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anybody have a copy of Proctor's or Gill's (or anybody else's) ornithology textbook to hand? If so, does it explain in any detail how the primaries are connected to the wing bones? Is it just a ligamental connection, or are the quills actually imbedded in the bones? HBW seems to suggest the latter, but I can't find any other source that confirms or details this. (I've been asked by a reader to explain the connections more clearly in the Flight feather article.) Any help would be appreciated, as my copies are in a storage unit on another continent! MeegsC | Talk 23:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Our featured List of North American birds has been nominated for removal here, and is engendering quite a heated discussion. We may want to weigh in. Nice that the nominating editor didn't even bother to notify us! MeegsC | Talk 13:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a dedicated area or page here for photograph and image requests? Snowman ( talk) 19:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Tasmanian wedge-tailed eagle needs to be moved to Tasmanian Wedge-tailed Eagle per WP:Birds naming policy. Maias ( talk) 11:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Gavia immer breeds and overwinters in Europe and North America. In Europe it is known as the Great Northern Diver. North Americans call it the Common Loon. In cases such as these, which name is more appropriate for the article title? It has been argued that population numbers and cultural status should affect the choice of title; the MoS does not seem well suited to resolve this issue. Seems a useful thing to discuss and resolve here. Quaternion ( talk) 13:45, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Alright, I'm going to go full speed on my bird videos. I've removed the watermarks so they can be usable for Wikipedia. There's now a small copyright notice at the bottom - off picture - and not referring to any website. This way there'll be some kind of reminder. Does it pass muster? Meanwhile, here are links for editors to add to articles if they'd like. Painted Bunting sings- [1] Golden-cheeked warbler sings [2] Yellow-breasted Chat sings- [3] Brown creeper creeps and calls- [4] black-throated gray warbler sings and forages- [5] BirdViewer ( talk) 17:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
I know how much everyone loves tasks, so I've put this one on the tasklist. I reviewed our bird family pages and made a note of which ones were stubs. It would be great if all our family pages were at least better than stubs. I mostly went by what the article review said; in some cases articles are listed as start that are only just start or arguably even stubs. At any rate there is plenty to do here. We probably won't get all of them done, theer are simply some families for which hardly any info exists. Melanocharitidae is a good example, I tried to expand it last year but drew a blank info-wise, although it is slated to be in the next HBW. Anyway, if you have some time add a few lines to these articles and take them off the list. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I search for etymology of Mallard and platyrhynchos. Thank. 86.72.170.168 ( talk) 22:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Can do with more eyes and hands as it stands on FAC Shyamal ( talk) 04:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Just added Bird atlas. Shyamal ( talk) 11:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Bird is now the top hit on google for keywords "bird", "birds" and it seems to be getting http://stats.grok.se/en/200801/Bird 116901 (Jan), 132310 (Feb) hits. Clear weekend lulls ! Shyamal ( talk) 11:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Some expert attention might help at the Afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brazilian Parrots
Togian White-eye! Does anyone have access to the Wilson Journal of Ornithology? It would be nice to flesh it out, perhaps "Did you know?" it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
FWIW I figure it's about as comprehensive as it can be without delving more into offline ornithological journals. I have put it up at GAN. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 04:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
The SACC is proposing to list Gallinula chloropus as the Common Gallinule instead of Common Moorhen. Maybe I shouldn't mention this here, but it got me curious about how birders and ornithologists would react to the change, and I just started a thread at rec.birds about it, if you'd care to participate. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I have polished this up a bit and is now looking quite nice. Anyone feel free to chip in and help. I have not completed referencing, mainly wasn't sure about obviously notable thngs like March of the Penguins etc. I know they will have to be done for FAC though...Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 13:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
An article that has been newly created Egg tossing (behavior) may well be worthy of merging into Infanticide (zoology). However it may be well worth keeping if there is substantial bird-related material. Shyamal ( talk) 09:24, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
A page for the Vermiculated Sceech-owl was requested and someone without knowledge of the split made the page. Not sure how you can deal with this but right now there are two pages for Megascops guatemalae and still none for the real Vermiculated Screech-owl, Megascops vermiculatus. RN1970 ( talk) 12:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't know much about this and just asked a friend who does to make sure I got it right in my last post and (luckily!) I did. The two articles are both wrong if only having a single species. The name Guatemalan Screech-owl is only used for M. guatemalae when the more southernly forms are treated as separate species:
If only having a single species the single species is the Vermiculated Screech-owl, M. guatemalae and all other are subspecies of it. The name Guatemalan Screech-owl is only used for M. guatemalae when the other are different species. RN1970 ( talk) 09:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Does the above name refer to a race of Dendrocopos medius or is it one of Dendrocopos syriacus or some other? The pictured species is from the Persian region and is figured in Blanford's Persian Boundary Commission report. Shyamal ( talk) 14:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
The new paper is out, I have commented on it. What do you think? Fat books will need to be read - the system Wikipedia uses is from 1931, in its non-recognition of the "true eagle" clade! Dysmorodrepanis ( talk) 22:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone in recent times actually put this into Netta? The IUCN does not even discuss anymore that it was once proposed. Dysmorodrepanis ( talk) 05:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Livezey to argue that the two should be regarded as congeneric. With Rhodonessa coined by Reichenbach in 1853 and Netta by Kaup in 1859, the former supposedly had priority, so the Red-crested pochard – a familiar species to anyone that knows ducks – became renamed Rhodonessa rufina (Livezey 1996).
However, Livezey had made a mistake, as Kaup named Netta in 1829, not 1859, so in later publications he switched things round, now sinking the Pink-headed duck into Netta, and hence renaming it Netta caryophyllacea (Livezey 1997). This hasn’t been widely accepted however.
The Pink-headed Duck article cites the Livezey paper and puts it in Netta. The blog author however suggests that the two genera should be left alone ! Shyamal ( talk) 15:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
here I started a list of bird articles which are blessed with either a Featured Pic or havea good selection of images to illustrate an article. Given this can be the hard part of improving an article, I thought listing a few of those articles may be another place for folks to choose from. Please add more if/when you find them Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 03:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Mentioned in the recent news letter, i am looking for someone to help lead this task force. respond on my tak page please. - Tobi4242 ( talk) 00:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Chough now at FAC,
Emperor Penguin soon to follow as well
Jimfbleak (
talk) 12:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, a day late, this should have made it to the newsletter ! [7] Shyamal ( talk) 03:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to suggest adding a list-class category, as there are lots of bird list pages and other wikiprojects have these, however I have no idea how to do this Dixonsej ( talk) 13:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, do we all feel these are synonymous? If so, which one do folks prefer?
PS: Sorry I forgot to add that I've been using Distribution and habitat, so I did mean 'X' and habitat WRT this poll. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 18:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
This is definitely even better especially when habitat associations and preferences are better understood. The most unusual heading for this is Occurs used in Rasmussen & Anderton(2005) The Birds of South Asia. Shyamal ( talk) 16:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Emperor Penguin now promoted to FA, Chough still at FAC Jimfbleak ( talk) 17:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Green Peafowl seems to be brimming with WP:OR. This concern has been raised many times in the past. Shyamal ( talk) 02:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Southern ground-hornbill needs moving back to Southern Ground-hornbill or Southern Ground Hornbill to accord with project naming policy. Maias ( talk) 03:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I was wanting to edit this template but wanted to run this by everyone at first. Sometimes when I am flicking between pages, the handiest page to jot things on is this one - i.e. discussion page of the birds wikiproject. I think it would be good having a direct link on the template to the discussion page of the project (some other templates such as Wikiproject Medicine do already). Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 05:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Just for Shyamal
Requesting an article on the naming of birds including matters of Latin, English and other languages. History, standardization attempts and other matters could go there. A summary should appear also in the Bird article. It is something that many non-birders are surprised by. Shyamal ( talk) 05:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
User:4444hhhh has been moving the template footer birds to template dinosaurs ( edit history here.) It got moved back once with a request that consensus be sought, but he has moved it back. While no one here doubts that birds are descended from dinosaurs, I don't think there is any benefit in converting a bird template into a bird and dinosaur template. I've moved the template back and reverted the changes for now. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, given these two are synonymous, we may as well have all the bird articles having the same ones. Which do we prefer? Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I just (prematurely) moved List of birds of Tasmania to List of Tasmanian birds thinking all our FLs were like this - then I looked at a few (oops). Do we have a preference what we call them all?
I am completely stumped and couldn't make up my mind actually, by a whisker I like (1) but not by much...Cheers,
Casliber (
talk ·
contribs) 10:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Am I mistaken and we discuss this before and I missed it? Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 10:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I've just been told on the Science Ref Desk that the dead bird in this picture is a Northern Gannet. Another picture (where the head is more clearly seen) is here. I'm seeking more opinion here, just to be absolutely certain. I don't suppose any article will want a picture of a dead gannet (though we do have a roadkill article, we don't have a seakill article!), but maybe someone will one day. Maybe Wikibooks or something. Any ideas what might have killed it? I think it got washed ashore. Oh, and I know the filename is wrong. :-) Actually, if you guys don't mind, could you comment on Image:Swan grooming plumage.jpg and Image:Swan eating grass.jpg and Image:Dove house.jpg? Any chance of saying something more specific than "swan" and "dove" for these? Carcharoth ( talk) 21:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
At a complete back track... If you do want a few photos of some dead birds then I'll be happy to CC any of the ones on this page: http://www.pbase.com/wangi/portobello_beach_dead thanks/ wangi ( talk) 21:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there enough interest to start an WikiProject:Aviculture? Possibly as a sub project of WP:Birds. Just to gauge the level interest, can the people interested form a list here? Snowman ( talk) 21:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I've just joined WP, so am new to all this. I work as a companion parrot behaviourist in the UK and am interested in the welfare of birds in aviculture I'm also interested in wild birds, and came to WP looking for info on sexual dimorphism in adult Jackdaws (C. monedula) (No, I didn't find it!) If an Aviculture section was started, I would contribute to it. Alfie1960 ( talk) 09:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Would anyone else be interested in starting an aviculture taskforce? I, for one, would be interested in such an undertaking.-- OnorioCatenacci ( talk) 19:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Worth taking a look at. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Aviculture Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Commons has two pictures of Canada Geese in mating-season display: this and this. I think either would be a good addition to Canada Goose, but I'm recusing myself from the decision because of bias. (I also linked to versions without author information in case anyone else is biased by names.) So which should it be? If you've got a clear preference, you can probably just be bold and add it to the article, maybe where the crèche is now and move that picture down a little. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I've been thinking lately about the titles of the family articles. In the past most of these have settled the common name for the family, except where the common name is a double (Shearwaters and petrels, for example, which according to MOS is incorrect, and thus is at Procellariidae). There has been a tendency lately, not widespread mind, for articles to get moved from this for rather pedentic reasons. Oriole got moved from the family page to the genus page because of one member of the family that is called the Figbird. Likewise Dove got moved to Columbidae, which although more accurate is less intuitive to members of the general public (for whom, generally, we are writing this). Lorikeet got moved to the Lories and lorikeets because "some of them are Lories, not lorikeets" (never figured out if the two are interchangeable like dove/pigeon, heron/egret), which while preferable to Loriinae as a title for the lay reader is unfortunately incompatible with the MOS (and harder to work into links). I'm a tad worried that soon people will be calling for Cuckoo to be moved to Cuculidae because some cuckoos are called anis or coucals or koels, or any variation on that theme.
I wonder if we need to expand the guidelines we have Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds#Bird names and article titles. Basically something like article titles for taxa higher should preferably use established common names for families unless the common name is plural. Common names are mostly taken from the HBW, so we could use their names [8] as the standard. Thus cuckoo would stay where it is, as the common name for the family in toto. Procellariidae would have to stay where it is because the established common name for the family is plural. Etc etc etc. And Oriole can go back to being the family page, not the genus one. Thoughts? Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks to those who helped get this through. It must be unusual for an article to change its name halfway through FAC too! Jimfbleak ( talk) 06:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Salaman and Barlow in The Firefly Encyclopedia of Birds say that the tropical members of Vireonidae (or just of Vireo?) maintain year-round territories and the northern migrants maintain winter territories, but Howell says that lots of species in both categories join mixed feeding flocks and that the Warbling Vireo is a dominant species in such flocks. Who's right? Could they just join the flocks when the flocks enter their territories? Does anyone have a better source?
Also, currently vireo redirects to Vireonidae. I'd kind of prefer it to be the name of Vireo (genus), but I note that Howell calls the Vireonidae "vireos", as do Salaman and Barlow. Any thoughts? Using "vireos" for the whole family is convenient in the family article, not so much in the genus article. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 22:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I recently discovered this Flickr user who has about 500 great photos of Neotropical birds. I found it through an image uploaded onto the commons, but I don't think it has much been raided for Wiki needs. It is in Spanish so has eluded my earlier attempts to find South American bird images. He has binomial species names for all the images though Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Some very nice photos but are they reliable? I browsed around and stumpled upon several places where the identification was questioned. See some of the comments under these [11], [12], [13], [14], [15] and [16]. Can someone check them? At least one of them is already used on wikipedia: White-spotted Woodpecker. RN1970 ( talk) 05:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Does anybody have a copy of Proctor's or Gill's (or anybody else's) ornithology textbook to hand? If so, does it explain in any detail how the primaries are connected to the wing bones? Is it just a ligamental connection, or are the quills actually imbedded in the bones? HBW seems to suggest the latter, but I can't find any other source that confirms or details this. (I've been asked by a reader to explain the connections more clearly in the Flight feather article.) Any help would be appreciated, as my copies are in a storage unit on another continent! MeegsC | Talk 23:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Our featured List of North American birds has been nominated for removal here, and is engendering quite a heated discussion. We may want to weigh in. Nice that the nominating editor didn't even bother to notify us! MeegsC | Talk 13:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a dedicated area or page here for photograph and image requests? Snowman ( talk) 19:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Tasmanian wedge-tailed eagle needs to be moved to Tasmanian Wedge-tailed Eagle per WP:Birds naming policy. Maias ( talk) 11:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Gavia immer breeds and overwinters in Europe and North America. In Europe it is known as the Great Northern Diver. North Americans call it the Common Loon. In cases such as these, which name is more appropriate for the article title? It has been argued that population numbers and cultural status should affect the choice of title; the MoS does not seem well suited to resolve this issue. Seems a useful thing to discuss and resolve here. Quaternion ( talk) 13:45, 15 April 2008 (UTC)