![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Sorry, Jim, that edit conflict was me fixing a typo. Tannin
On the common names issue, there are still major differences in usage, of which the most obvious are those between N Am and Europe, eg Arctic Skua = Parasitic Jaeger (and the compromise Parasitic Skua used in one field guide doesn't help).
Furthermore, monographs on families often use the author's own pet names for species, and birders' terminology is often not the same as the official version, such as European Black vulture = Monk vulture = Cinereous vulture (the last being in the standard guide to birds of India.
I would suggest that you write an article using the official name version for your country, but if you are aware of alternatives show them in the species' and family accounts and redirect. Thus, for two of the grebes, I've used Black-necked and Slavonian, but redirected from Eared and Horned.
I've also redirected from canadian robin, preffered by your northern friends, to the more familiar american robin
We are bound to miss some, but they can be filled in as they arise. Thus the USFWS picture of Nubian vulture threw me, until a bit of research showed it to be an unfamiliar synonym for lappet-faced vulture. jimfbleak 05:49 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
START OF TEXT MOVED FROM MAIN ENTRY
Meliphagidae | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Scientific classification | ||||||||||||||||||||
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|
In general, bird entries should have taxobox. This is something we have inherited from the Tree of Life WikiProject. There are many examples there to look at. (The one at right is just an example and leaves quite a few genera out for space resons.)
Taxoboxes on the bird pages vary quite a bit from one another and could perhaps be standardised more than they are right now. This may or may not be a good thing. Discussion of this is welcome.
There are several points to note about this example of a family-level taxobox, which is not intended as template to follow but simply as a basis for discusson—the particular issues mentioned here will crop up again and again and might as well be dealt with now.
Shearwaters | ||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||||
|
This second example is a simpler one. Again, it is not intended as template to follow but simply as a basis for discusson. At present (mid-April 2003) there are perhaps 30 taxoboxes scattered around the bird pages, using perhaps eight or ten different styles. It is probably not desirable or possible to enforce a single exact standard when the circumstances vary so much from one entry to another, but is a case for attempting to get some kind of broad rationalisation?
There is a great deal of effort going into the rationalisation of common names, Kingturtle. Here in Oz, for example, there are no common names remaining that are not "international ready": all are unique (at least so far as I am aware). The South Africans are doing the same thing, and I think it applies elsewhere too. If you use the official common name that applies to your area (as used by the AOU, the BOU, or etc.) you should be fine. If exceptions to this rule remain, Jim would be the most likely one of us to know about it.
BTW, this isn't supposed to be a talk page, but I don't think we need to worry about that at this stage, we can easily move stuff off to talk after things take more shape. Tannin
END OF TEXT MOVED FROM MAIN ENTRY
On reflection, Jim, I think you are right about the narrow taxoboxes. Unless someone sings out and disagrees, I'm going to:
Editing Shearwater just now, I was reminded of a difficulty that the taxoboxes impose. The taxobox seems simple enough at first:
The problem is that this implies that Procellariidae = Shearwater and Shearwater = Procellariidae—which isn't true. There are the Petrels as well. In most cases, the taxoboxes work fine, but for articles that are about a part of a taxon (and there are quite a few of them), we need to find an unobtrusive but unambiguous way to indicate that there are other creatures that we are leaving out. Any ideas? Tannin
Sorry, Kingturtle. Sometimes my mind goes racing ahead of my fingers. What I'm trying to get at is this: most of the time, when we do a bird article, it is about a particular taxon. Some examples:
This makes the taxobox simple and obvious, both to edit and to read. The reader can see right away where the subject of the article fits into the scheme of things.
But other times we create an article about aomething that is not a particular taxon. Shearwater is an article about half of the Procellariidae. In itself, this is fine: it makes perfect sense to have an entry about shearwaters, and there are lots of other similar examples - but it messes up the logic of the taxobox. We need to have a little symbol or something to say: Note that the shearwaters form only part of this family - see also petrel. Obviously, we can't fit all that extra text into the taxobox layout, but we should be able to think of a neat, tidy way to impart the message. Am I making more sense now? Tannin
But I imagine that would get ugly if there were five or six or more within one family. Another idea would be:
which would take the user to Procellariidae list where the different names would be listed on a roster. From there, the user could click toward the bird of interest. Kingturtle 09:57 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
one:
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
† see also: Petrel, Fulmar, Etcetra, Fourth, Fifth |
That makes senses. What if we do this? →
Where there are many things to "see also" then it can link to a list page of some sort instead. Mostly, I guess, it would just link to the next highest taxon.
(By the way, I'm no seabird expert myself. Jim is the man for seabirds, I think.) Tannin
To make more sense to the eye, try this... Kingturtle 10:39 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Yes. There is a rational limit to this. I guess we will see that when we meet it. Sometimes it will be better to just direct the reader up to the next highest taxon. An example of this coming right up at Bronzewing pigeon. Tannin
In your estimate, what would be the most names listed in the other category at one time? Kingturtle 10:55 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Hmmm ... Well, I guess anything that fits on one line of the taxobox is fine. Anything that takes up three lines is too long, and two lines? Best avoided if possible, I guess. Tannin
two:
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
† see also: others |
The first one would get wider and wider, while the second one would stay thin, and point to Procellariidae list . just an idea. I don't know how often it would come up. Kingturtle 11:17 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I don't think any of us are going to bring the Kalashnikovs out just yet, Jim. :) On your general point—keep it small and neat—I agree, now that I've thought it over. I'm planning to revamp my wide ones over the next week or two, bring them into "house style". I agree that the text is the main place to sort out part families and the like, but my feeling is that either the taxoboxes are a reliable guide on their own, or else they are fairly useless. If you have to look at the text to find out if the taxobox is telling you the whole story or not, why bother having a taxobox in the first place? If you can think of a way to make the "see also" message smaller and less obtrusive, then I'm all in favour. Tannin
Guys, I've been thinking about the passerines. It's a great, unweildy list (see List of birds) and we need to find a way to give it some pointers to help the reader make sense of it. (Not just because it's a great, long list with nothing to break it up and make it easier on the eye, but also because the passerines are more than half of all birds. That makes them particularly important.) So, I think we ought to sectionalise it a little. For an example of what I have in mind, slip over to Australasian birds. What do you think? Tannin
That's Corvidia, Jim, not Corvidae. As you know, the passerines fall into two groups:
According to Sibley et al, the great bulk of the passerines are more-or-less evenly further divided into two groups:
Once we get past the suboscines at the top of the list and into the main body of the passerines, nearly everything seems to fall neatly into one or the other grouping. I'll see if I can find a nice, neat summary shortly. Tannin
Hollie Doolie! Your typing finger must be worn out after adding all those hummingbird species, Jimfbleak!
But it raises a matter I've been meaning to get around to for a while: presentation of species lists. It's a good idea, I think, to try to standardise these, for reasons that should be obvious. On the other hand, we must (as always) be aware that that imposing a rigid house style can sometimes lead to diffculties - circumstances do alter cases. Just the same, there are several styles floating around the place, and it would be good to (so far as practicable) bring them into allignment with one another. For example:
That's my preffered format:
However, there are several variations on this theme. Some people put parentheses around the binomial name, some use a colon instead of a comma, some lists don't use the asterix system, some put the common name after the binomial name, and so on. Is it time to work out a preffered format? If we do, I suggest that it not be a compulsory thing, as there are undoubtedly times when the standard format is not appropriate, just a general recommendation. (See, for one example of a non-standard list format that makes sense in the particular entry, Bronzewing pigeon.) Tannin 12:23 30 May 2003 (UTC)
On my talk page, Tannin writes:
So here I am. I see nothing on this page (or the meta) indicating this, or where the cut-off between listing and shortcutting should be. I figured that it was an organic "I'm too tired to add them all here, go look for yourself" kind of decision. (I've used it myself that way.) - UtherSRG 15:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
No one seems to care, so I'll continue editting as I've been. See my note below for new questions. - UtherSRG 20:05, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
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Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
† see also: others |
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
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Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
Genera | ||||||||||
Calonectris | ||||||||||
† see also: others |
Something I've noticed editing bird taxoboxes is that there is a difference (I thought it was a mistake). Perhaps it is just a mistake made once and repeated umpteen times. Take a look at these two taxoboxes to the right. The rightmost is the current Aves "standard". The other is the Animal "standard". Was this change to the lower portion intentional, or accidental? I've been fixing the Aves "standard" with the understanding that the Animal "standard" was "the" standard. - UtherSRG 15:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
As for the taxoboxes, you are absolutely right Uther! They are different. Stupidly, I had not noticed. There is no official standard as such, just informal ones that we develop here (and in other similar pages). I feel very stupid because, now that you bring it to my attention, I remember that one particular Wikipedian once spent ages playing with different taxobox layouts when he started trying to impose some order on the mammal pages, and finally settled on the "animal" one above as the best-looking. He then proceeded to add it to all the mammal pages (most of them had no taxoboxes at all). And .... the bit that makes me feel really stupid ... his name was ... " Tannin".
(I think I better go to bed.) Tannin
In the species level taxobox, the bird project convention is to write "binomial name". However the Tree of Life project writes "binomial nomenclature". I copied the birds over at the cetacean project.. but was that the right thing to do? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 16:50, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It seems that the 'th' tag automatically centers and bolds. As I'm editting, I'm removing the align="center" and all bolding from 'th' tagged lines. This has no effect on the display, but makes the html more user readable. I'm also making sure there's a line for an image, taged with 'td align="center"' and includes only a comment to but the image there. - UtherSRG 20:10, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
So I've taken on the task of going through the entire list in British birds and cleaning all the pages. Oy what a project! I'm starting to think I'm banging my head against the wall, though... S-A classification is more modern, although probably not fully settled. I have a feeling I'll be back re-cleaning these pages to adapt them to the newer classification. Any thoughts? - UtherSRG 20:10, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Bah! I seriously dislike the wiki table markup. It is not readable in the slightest. The HTML tags, although sometimes cryptic, at least have some bearing on what they affect. When I see a 'table' tag, I know I'm dealing with a table, 'tr' a row in that table, 'th' a heading in the table, 'td' a piece of data in the table. Bah on wiki tables! - UtherSRG 16:00, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I've slightly modified the templates available for cut-and-paste:
Abigail 09:42, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
{{SampleWikiProject}}
request attention to Darwin's finches Duncharris 19:52, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
See Talk:List_of_New_Zealand_birds
Can you provide any reason why orders are always capitalised, but because some bird-brained twit made a mistake in miscapitalising the species name, and everyone else followed, like Sheep, even to the extent of moving correctly capitalised into . It looks horrible and encourages kidiwiki. Someone needs to write a bot to do delete the redirects and move them to their right namespace. This is very very very silly, and one of the most silly things around this place. Dunc_Harris| ☺ 18:00, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Hiya. I just noticed that almost no bird belongs to any category. I think you should do something about it. The bird articles are otherwise really well done. I'm no expert in any sort of biology but I just noticed this anyway. I'll leave it to you to define the categories and discuss the matter further. Keep up the good work with this project. :) -- ZeroOne 13:51, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have been working on the categories and would like to invite any suggestions or criticisms of my work. I am attempting to find names for the cats other than the scientific ones, but I have aimed to follow them as close as possible. This is because so many species can have variable common names and are called by names the category of which they technically don't belong to. In any case, I would like to keep the scientific line-following cats so as not to leave any species just dumped in Cat:Birds. Would appreciate comment, pro and con appreciated. -- DanielCD 17:29, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Also, see my short comments at Cat talk:Birds. -- DanielCD 17:38, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Sorry, Jim, that edit conflict was me fixing a typo. Tannin
On the common names issue, there are still major differences in usage, of which the most obvious are those between N Am and Europe, eg Arctic Skua = Parasitic Jaeger (and the compromise Parasitic Skua used in one field guide doesn't help).
Furthermore, monographs on families often use the author's own pet names for species, and birders' terminology is often not the same as the official version, such as European Black vulture = Monk vulture = Cinereous vulture (the last being in the standard guide to birds of India.
I would suggest that you write an article using the official name version for your country, but if you are aware of alternatives show them in the species' and family accounts and redirect. Thus, for two of the grebes, I've used Black-necked and Slavonian, but redirected from Eared and Horned.
I've also redirected from canadian robin, preffered by your northern friends, to the more familiar american robin
We are bound to miss some, but they can be filled in as they arise. Thus the USFWS picture of Nubian vulture threw me, until a bit of research showed it to be an unfamiliar synonym for lappet-faced vulture. jimfbleak 05:49 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
START OF TEXT MOVED FROM MAIN ENTRY
Meliphagidae | ||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||
|
In general, bird entries should have taxobox. This is something we have inherited from the Tree of Life WikiProject. There are many examples there to look at. (The one at right is just an example and leaves quite a few genera out for space resons.)
Taxoboxes on the bird pages vary quite a bit from one another and could perhaps be standardised more than they are right now. This may or may not be a good thing. Discussion of this is welcome.
There are several points to note about this example of a family-level taxobox, which is not intended as template to follow but simply as a basis for discusson—the particular issues mentioned here will crop up again and again and might as well be dealt with now.
Shearwaters | ||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||||
|
This second example is a simpler one. Again, it is not intended as template to follow but simply as a basis for discusson. At present (mid-April 2003) there are perhaps 30 taxoboxes scattered around the bird pages, using perhaps eight or ten different styles. It is probably not desirable or possible to enforce a single exact standard when the circumstances vary so much from one entry to another, but is a case for attempting to get some kind of broad rationalisation?
There is a great deal of effort going into the rationalisation of common names, Kingturtle. Here in Oz, for example, there are no common names remaining that are not "international ready": all are unique (at least so far as I am aware). The South Africans are doing the same thing, and I think it applies elsewhere too. If you use the official common name that applies to your area (as used by the AOU, the BOU, or etc.) you should be fine. If exceptions to this rule remain, Jim would be the most likely one of us to know about it.
BTW, this isn't supposed to be a talk page, but I don't think we need to worry about that at this stage, we can easily move stuff off to talk after things take more shape. Tannin
END OF TEXT MOVED FROM MAIN ENTRY
On reflection, Jim, I think you are right about the narrow taxoboxes. Unless someone sings out and disagrees, I'm going to:
Editing Shearwater just now, I was reminded of a difficulty that the taxoboxes impose. The taxobox seems simple enough at first:
The problem is that this implies that Procellariidae = Shearwater and Shearwater = Procellariidae—which isn't true. There are the Petrels as well. In most cases, the taxoboxes work fine, but for articles that are about a part of a taxon (and there are quite a few of them), we need to find an unobtrusive but unambiguous way to indicate that there are other creatures that we are leaving out. Any ideas? Tannin
Sorry, Kingturtle. Sometimes my mind goes racing ahead of my fingers. What I'm trying to get at is this: most of the time, when we do a bird article, it is about a particular taxon. Some examples:
This makes the taxobox simple and obvious, both to edit and to read. The reader can see right away where the subject of the article fits into the scheme of things.
But other times we create an article about aomething that is not a particular taxon. Shearwater is an article about half of the Procellariidae. In itself, this is fine: it makes perfect sense to have an entry about shearwaters, and there are lots of other similar examples - but it messes up the logic of the taxobox. We need to have a little symbol or something to say: Note that the shearwaters form only part of this family - see also petrel. Obviously, we can't fit all that extra text into the taxobox layout, but we should be able to think of a neat, tidy way to impart the message. Am I making more sense now? Tannin
But I imagine that would get ugly if there were five or six or more within one family. Another idea would be:
which would take the user to Procellariidae list where the different names would be listed on a roster. From there, the user could click toward the bird of interest. Kingturtle 09:57 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
one:
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
† see also: Petrel, Fulmar, Etcetra, Fourth, Fifth |
That makes senses. What if we do this? →
Where there are many things to "see also" then it can link to a list page of some sort instead. Mostly, I guess, it would just link to the next highest taxon.
(By the way, I'm no seabird expert myself. Jim is the man for seabirds, I think.) Tannin
To make more sense to the eye, try this... Kingturtle 10:39 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Yes. There is a rational limit to this. I guess we will see that when we meet it. Sometimes it will be better to just direct the reader up to the next highest taxon. An example of this coming right up at Bronzewing pigeon. Tannin
In your estimate, what would be the most names listed in the other category at one time? Kingturtle 10:55 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Hmmm ... Well, I guess anything that fits on one line of the taxobox is fine. Anything that takes up three lines is too long, and two lines? Best avoided if possible, I guess. Tannin
two:
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
† see also: others |
The first one would get wider and wider, while the second one would stay thin, and point to Procellariidae list . just an idea. I don't know how often it would come up. Kingturtle 11:17 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I don't think any of us are going to bring the Kalashnikovs out just yet, Jim. :) On your general point—keep it small and neat—I agree, now that I've thought it over. I'm planning to revamp my wide ones over the next week or two, bring them into "house style". I agree that the text is the main place to sort out part families and the like, but my feeling is that either the taxoboxes are a reliable guide on their own, or else they are fairly useless. If you have to look at the text to find out if the taxobox is telling you the whole story or not, why bother having a taxobox in the first place? If you can think of a way to make the "see also" message smaller and less obtrusive, then I'm all in favour. Tannin
Guys, I've been thinking about the passerines. It's a great, unweildy list (see List of birds) and we need to find a way to give it some pointers to help the reader make sense of it. (Not just because it's a great, long list with nothing to break it up and make it easier on the eye, but also because the passerines are more than half of all birds. That makes them particularly important.) So, I think we ought to sectionalise it a little. For an example of what I have in mind, slip over to Australasian birds. What do you think? Tannin
That's Corvidia, Jim, not Corvidae. As you know, the passerines fall into two groups:
According to Sibley et al, the great bulk of the passerines are more-or-less evenly further divided into two groups:
Once we get past the suboscines at the top of the list and into the main body of the passerines, nearly everything seems to fall neatly into one or the other grouping. I'll see if I can find a nice, neat summary shortly. Tannin
Hollie Doolie! Your typing finger must be worn out after adding all those hummingbird species, Jimfbleak!
But it raises a matter I've been meaning to get around to for a while: presentation of species lists. It's a good idea, I think, to try to standardise these, for reasons that should be obvious. On the other hand, we must (as always) be aware that that imposing a rigid house style can sometimes lead to diffculties - circumstances do alter cases. Just the same, there are several styles floating around the place, and it would be good to (so far as practicable) bring them into allignment with one another. For example:
That's my preffered format:
However, there are several variations on this theme. Some people put parentheses around the binomial name, some use a colon instead of a comma, some lists don't use the asterix system, some put the common name after the binomial name, and so on. Is it time to work out a preffered format? If we do, I suggest that it not be a compulsory thing, as there are undoubtedly times when the standard format is not appropriate, just a general recommendation. (See, for one example of a non-standard list format that makes sense in the particular entry, Bronzewing pigeon.) Tannin 12:23 30 May 2003 (UTC)
On my talk page, Tannin writes:
So here I am. I see nothing on this page (or the meta) indicating this, or where the cut-off between listing and shortcutting should be. I figured that it was an organic "I'm too tired to add them all here, go look for yourself" kind of decision. (I've used it myself that way.) - UtherSRG 15:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
No one seems to care, so I'll continue editting as I've been. See my note below for new questions. - UtherSRG 20:05, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
† see also: others |
Shearwaters | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Scientific classification | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
Genera | ||||||||||
Calonectris | ||||||||||
† see also: others |
Something I've noticed editing bird taxoboxes is that there is a difference (I thought it was a mistake). Perhaps it is just a mistake made once and repeated umpteen times. Take a look at these two taxoboxes to the right. The rightmost is the current Aves "standard". The other is the Animal "standard". Was this change to the lower portion intentional, or accidental? I've been fixing the Aves "standard" with the understanding that the Animal "standard" was "the" standard. - UtherSRG 15:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
As for the taxoboxes, you are absolutely right Uther! They are different. Stupidly, I had not noticed. There is no official standard as such, just informal ones that we develop here (and in other similar pages). I feel very stupid because, now that you bring it to my attention, I remember that one particular Wikipedian once spent ages playing with different taxobox layouts when he started trying to impose some order on the mammal pages, and finally settled on the "animal" one above as the best-looking. He then proceeded to add it to all the mammal pages (most of them had no taxoboxes at all). And .... the bit that makes me feel really stupid ... his name was ... " Tannin".
(I think I better go to bed.) Tannin
In the species level taxobox, the bird project convention is to write "binomial name". However the Tree of Life project writes "binomial nomenclature". I copied the birds over at the cetacean project.. but was that the right thing to do? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 16:50, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It seems that the 'th' tag automatically centers and bolds. As I'm editting, I'm removing the align="center" and all bolding from 'th' tagged lines. This has no effect on the display, but makes the html more user readable. I'm also making sure there's a line for an image, taged with 'td align="center"' and includes only a comment to but the image there. - UtherSRG 20:10, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
So I've taken on the task of going through the entire list in British birds and cleaning all the pages. Oy what a project! I'm starting to think I'm banging my head against the wall, though... S-A classification is more modern, although probably not fully settled. I have a feeling I'll be back re-cleaning these pages to adapt them to the newer classification. Any thoughts? - UtherSRG 20:10, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Bah! I seriously dislike the wiki table markup. It is not readable in the slightest. The HTML tags, although sometimes cryptic, at least have some bearing on what they affect. When I see a 'table' tag, I know I'm dealing with a table, 'tr' a row in that table, 'th' a heading in the table, 'td' a piece of data in the table. Bah on wiki tables! - UtherSRG 16:00, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I've slightly modified the templates available for cut-and-paste:
Abigail 09:42, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
{{SampleWikiProject}}
request attention to Darwin's finches Duncharris 19:52, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
See Talk:List_of_New_Zealand_birds
Can you provide any reason why orders are always capitalised, but because some bird-brained twit made a mistake in miscapitalising the species name, and everyone else followed, like Sheep, even to the extent of moving correctly capitalised into . It looks horrible and encourages kidiwiki. Someone needs to write a bot to do delete the redirects and move them to their right namespace. This is very very very silly, and one of the most silly things around this place. Dunc_Harris| ☺ 18:00, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Hiya. I just noticed that almost no bird belongs to any category. I think you should do something about it. The bird articles are otherwise really well done. I'm no expert in any sort of biology but I just noticed this anyway. I'll leave it to you to define the categories and discuss the matter further. Keep up the good work with this project. :) -- ZeroOne 13:51, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have been working on the categories and would like to invite any suggestions or criticisms of my work. I am attempting to find names for the cats other than the scientific ones, but I have aimed to follow them as close as possible. This is because so many species can have variable common names and are called by names the category of which they technically don't belong to. In any case, I would like to keep the scientific line-following cats so as not to leave any species just dumped in Cat:Birds. Would appreciate comment, pro and con appreciated. -- DanielCD 17:29, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Also, see my short comments at Cat talk:Birds. -- DanielCD 17:38, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)