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Vote at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Moses so as too get Moses into a featured article Java7837 23:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I have noted that this project does not yet engage in assessment. I am a member of WikiProject Religion, which does engage in assessments. I was wondering if this project would have any objections to the Religion project setting up its banner in a way similar to WikiProject Australia, WikiProject Military history, and others, which have the "parent" banner on top with the assessment criteria and a section below indicating which particular projects have specific interest in the article. I could set up the Religion banner in a way to accomplish this. However, given the complexity involved, I would not want to do so and have things changed back later. Please inform me if this arrangement would be to your satisfaction or not, so I can know how to proceed. Thank you. Badbilltucker 14:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
User:MonkeeSage/Bible templates lists an alternate way to make Bible references. Ideally, there would be one template to the most versatile and preferably non-commercial (until someone comes up with something better, its the usyd.edu.au site). The alternate MS-made templates boast some added functionality, but does this start the trend of using a particular commercial source, and more importantly, using different templates that promote particular versions, etc? Raising the issue here rather than del-listing the templates. - Ste| vertigo 23:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The group indicated above was recently revitalized for, among other things, the purpose of working on those articles whose content is such that the article does not fall within the scope of any particular denomination. To most effectively do this, however, we would benefit greatly if there were at least one member from this Project working on those articles. On that basis, I would encourage and welcome any member of this Project willing to work on those articles to join the Religion WikiProject. Thank you. Badbilltucker 22:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I recently found that our article on Jesus is the first page that appears when anyone does a Google search of the subject. It is currently, regrettably, only at GA status. On that basis, I would request any individuals who might be interested in helping to bring this article up to FA status to indicate their support for the article being chosen as the AID article at Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive#Jesus. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Moreh, Mosaic Covenant, Shemhamphorasch and Similarities between the Bible and the Qur'an have been tagged as requiring expert attention. Any such assistance in improving these articles would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Badbilltucker 02:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
An RFC has been filed to determine whether or not the position of the Jesus Seminar should be included in Lazarus and Dives. Your comments would be most welcome. -- Joopercoopers 23:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
So, uh.. I went to Catholic school for 8 years, and I have no idea what this page is talking about: Son of Iniquity. It sounds a bit made-up to me, but is there any redeemable material there? -- Strangerer ( Talk | Contribs) 07:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I've certainly heard of Son of Perdition - the article should be moved there, as that's the far more usual name. It is just a name though. Its a bit like having separate articles for "Odds bodkins", "Gadzooks", and "Zounds", all of which are swear words referencing Jesus - "God's body-kin", "God's hooks", "God's wounds", respectively. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion about whether or not to rename/move Paul of Tarsus. -- Pastordavid 01:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a fierce controversy raging between mostly myself, and about three other editors, at Talk:Book of Daniel over how much representation should be given to the view that it was actually written by the prophet Daniel. I don't know about other Churches, but my church definitively states it was written by Daniel, (at least in its original form). The other three editors are basically insisting that this is not a very significant viewpoint, and so the article should side with scholarly theories and conjectures on the authorship, and has no obligation to stay neutral to all viewpoints. They are at the point now where they are threatening to have me banned from editing the article, because so far I am practically alone in standing in their way of a one-sided hack job. Note that I am not trying to omit a full discussion of their view from the article, but I only think it is fair that they likewise allow some space to other sources on what is canonical even though they may disagree with them. ፈቃደ ( ውይይት) 02:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
This article was a list of three figures from the Jewish Bible when it was put up for deletion. The subject deserves an article, and I'm trying to flesh it out with examples from Christianity (where the concept is obviously important) as well as examples from Islam and other religions. Please help now and we can help a lot of readers with a useful encyclopedia article. As a side benefit, it would be useful to demonstrate (politely) that the subject is serious enough not to deserve the scorn that is part of the deletion discussion now. The discussion is here:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people who went to heaven alive
Noroton 18:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem with a dispute at Noah's Ark with several editors who want to endorse the POV that the Ark is a "fictional ship" by putting it into a category "fictional ships", I said this is a POV but they are now adding the category "mythological ships" which is also obviously a POV-pushing category, and they say all those who do not agree with them are "insignificant" and so discount all opposition. ፈቃደ ( ውይይት) 23:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
There are many article that reference a Bible verse or passage. Is there any on going effort or planned effort to try to search through articles and convert references to links to the passage on Bible Gateway or wikisource? I think that'd be a good task (probably for a bot). Akubhai 12:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
No, that's a very bad idea. The reason is that Bible Gateway is very biased in its selection; it excludes all scholarly versions (like the NRSV) and all Catholic version of the Bible (like the NAB), as well as Septuagint-based (LXX) versions (whether Greek or English). The Bible reference template (eg. Genesis 1:1 ) links to a site (maintained by a wikipedia editor) where users can select which version of the bible they wish to read the verse[s] in; since its maintained by a wikipedia editor, its much more comprehensive.
As I am new to this project (and Wikipedia actually) please forgive me if this is a silly question or one that has already been addressed. I was reading over this project's goals and according to #2 we are to unify the presentation of the individual books of the bible. My question is, is there a certain structure that we are suppose to use (and if so is there an example of it already in place)? Thanks. Seraphim84 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
No, its just that there is a wide range of quality and completeness in the articles about the various books. Compare Books of Kings, which is fairly decent, to Leviticus, which is essentially just a content summary. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that this differences in scope between this project and Wikipedia:WikiProject Biblical Criticism are comparatively minor. Both effectively cover the same basic subjects and content, just from different perspectives. Also, at least it seems to me, that neither project is particularly active. (I could be wrong here, of course). Maybe merging the two together would be a way to rekindle interest in the activities of the existing projects and possibly improve the amount and quality of content related to the Bible and related subjects, which is I think the ultimate goal of both projects. And, of course, I think the potential of redundant banners and assessments, when there are only such minor differences between the projects, might be avoided as well. John Carter 22:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Its a bit late to mention it, but I think its a good suggestion; the alternative was to make it part of the Anti-Systemic-Bias (in Wikipedia) WikiProject. -- User talk:FDuffy 20:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I can see the connection to this project, but it looks more like a subproject of Anti-Systemic-Bias to me. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
http://users.pandora.be/kenneshugo/index.html is a website containing translations of representative topics out of the 10 books in Dutch of Prof. Thijs , Engeneering , Belgian University and High School of Hasselt. This books describe the pyramids sacred geometry as full compatible with the laws of our positive sciences. He gives a mathematical and astronomical explanation of the pyramidal model.
He mainly decodes the explicit number metaphors in the Bible Ancient and New Testament, reflecting exactly the maths and geometry of the Great Pyramid model , and also astronomical and astrological realities.
I suggested to put in your linktopics a link to my translations website above for : sacred geometry (talk page) pyramid (talk page)
Perhaps Your religion team like to see other references in articles or links in other wikepedia articles?
84.196.90.174 18:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
First, we should have a newsletter. Second, we should put the NIV on here or Wikisource. I'll ask over there. Please respond to this on my talk page. Laleena talk to me contributions to Wikipedia 12:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
There has been a recent discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Psalm 83:18 about what "sections" of the Bible are sufficiently notable in and of themselves to have separate articles. My personal belief is that any major "tale" of the Bible should qualify as its own article, and that the Psalms in particular each probably deserve at least an individual section apiece. I frankly have no clue about how to handle the Proverbs. By "tale" above I am referring to the major coherent stories, such as Joshua at Jericho, Adam and Eve (which might itself get some subarticles), Jesus in the Garden at Gethsemane, and so on. I would welcome any discussion of this matter. Thank you. John Carter 13:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent)I had to laugh when I read the line, "some "real-world" activity, like maybe wars and the like." Yeah, that definitely qualifies as real-world activity. :) But overall I think you've got the basics of a fine standard for separate articles. 24.4.253.249 20:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
OMG. If you investigate this it looks like there's a huge amount of articles like this. There's already been a general consensus reached on this issue, but certain people seem to be ignoring it. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Please discuss proposed page move at Talk:Circumcision in the Bible#Proposed move to Circumcision and religion. -- Coppertwig 00:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I had an idea of creating 1189 pages of summary/commentary/issues of every chapter of the Bible. I actually started setting up the framework and got challenged two or three minutes in. Do you think that this would be a good project? My vision is for every chapter to be represented eventually. Say for example you want to know more about the third chapter of Ruth. That would be a page. Every page would have verifiable sources. Would this be a good idea for a project? If so, what would the index page be? Would this be a category page? Fusek71 22:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)Fusek71
It transpires that this matter is more prevalent than I had initially thought. I have arranged an AfD on this matter:
For a good while, User:Rktect has been making significant modifications to various biblical articles — for example, compare his/her changes to Stations list here. S/he has been blocked four times, twice in the last three months, after long insertions of original research. Please compare the current version of Elim (Bible) with the way it was before Rktect began editing it in July. I'd appreciate it if some of you in this wikiproject would watch a bunch of these articles, lest this OR be restored. Nyttend 23:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
A proposal has been made on Talk:Bible to split the current Bible article into two separate articles, Hebrew Bible and Christian Bible, with Bible becoming a redirect to Bible (disambiguation). Best, -- Shirahadasha 05:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Discussion has proceeded and proposals have been made to restructure and rewrite the Bible article. Please provide input into this discussion at Talk:Bible. Best, -- Shirahadasha 20:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
A debate has arisen today at Talk:Creationism regarding capitalization. It seems that on wikipedia, all proper adjectives are capitalized, eg. we are supposed write 'Vedic' when describing the Veda, 'Talmudic' for the Talmud, 'Lithuanian' for Lithuania, etc., that is, as opposed to "vedic" "talmudic" and "lithuanian". That is the normal rule for all proper adjectives in English. However, it seems that there are a few academic style guides that apparently make a single exception for the Proper Adjective to describe the Bible, and insist that it be written "biblical" rather than "Biblical". I advise that Wikipedia in order to maintain a semblance of neutrality, not adopt this style, which I claim is followed by a minority, but the editor debating me claims by a majority. It is inherently unfair and inconsistent to reserve a special rule for the Bible among all other books and insist its accompanying adjective be the only Proper Adjective in the English language to be written in lowercase. Til Eulenspiegel 14:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[BELOW IS THE DISCUSSION COPIED FROM Talk:Creationism#Capitalisation of "Biblical" Why repeat my points verbatim here?]
All proper adjectives in the English language are capitalized. For example, we write "Quranic" and not quranic, "Vedic" and not vedic, "Australian" and not australian, so why must "Biblical" be a special exception? It makes no sense at all. If you check the history of the usage of the word, you will see that "Biblical" has always been more common than "biblical" according to the OED, notwithstanding what a few recent style guides like Chicago may attempt to impose. Til Eulenspiegel 14:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[ABOVE COMMENTS PASTED FROM DISCUSSION AT TALK:CREATIONISM]
For what it's worth, here is a list of reliable sources (both religious and otherwise) that do not capitalize biblical, except in special circumstances (i.e., First word in sentence, part of title, part of a proper name [e.g., Women for Biblical Equality], etc.). Note that all of these sources capitalize Bible unless using the word generically (e.g., "...is the bible of conspiracy theorists"). Despite another editor's belief that biblical is the only proper adjective not capitalized (apparently an indication of prejudice against the Bible), these sources feature many other examples of non-capitalized proper adjectives (e.g., godly, scriptural, christological, french fries, bourbon whiskey, venetian blinds, quixotic, roman numeral, etc.):
Style Manuals that specifically mention biblical as a non-capitalized word or direct writers to use the first example in Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged or Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (which do not capitalize biblical) when in doubt about capitalization:
— DIEGO talk 21:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Since a 3O was requested, I'll provide one even though you're also going to open an RFC. In my opinion, since modern usage (including the MLA - I couldn't find an actual link to their style suggestion, but their own website uses the lowercase format [3]) clearly supports "biblical", I'd suggest that become the preferred usage if a guideline is added to the MOS. I'm not going to suggest that Wikipedia go contrary to the Chicago Manual, the APA, MLA, and the Society of Biblical Literature by using a capital B when all of those style organizations suggest lower. Strunk & White do not address the issue in the Third Edition (the copy I have). -- Darkwind ( talk) 04:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
To read the debate up to this point, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bible#Specific policy needed on capitalisation.
I trust that every opponent of the Bible being capitalized is working overtime to ensure that the
Qur'an be spelled qur'an, the
Book of Mormon the book of mormon, the
Five Classics the five classics, the
Bagavadgita the bagavidgita, the
Tipitaka tipitaka,
Upanishads be upanishads, the
Torah, torah, and repeat this for all of the hundreds of
Religious texts that Wikipedia includes within it (Please check out
Religious Texts if you doubt me).
The effort to use the lower case 'b' is laudable in that Wikipedia doesn't seek to promote a particular religion. But be mindful of the fact that this effort is only applied to Christianity normally, and is in effect giving Christianity special treatment, never mind the fact that this treatment is negative.
So long as it is considered normative to title books with upper case letters, it will be proper to title the Bible (and it's companion adjective "Biblical") with an upper case letter. Any other choice is inconsistent if not universally applied to all the , which itself would be a gross violation of the naming conventions of English literature.
If you're going to do this, be consistent.
Respectfully submitted by
Signaj90 (
talk) 15:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
RJRocket53 ( talk) 03:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I support biblical for reasons stated above. It seems to be the form overwhelmingly preferred by academic style guides (including the Society of Biblical Literature), print journalism (including the AP and evangelical Christian publications such as Christianity Today). I think that usage on Wikipedia should reflect the predominant usage in reliable sources, rather than an appeal to emotionality or grammatical prescriptivism. If this is basically a American/British usage difference, then I think we should follow current WP:STYLE guidelines ( WP:ENGVAR) regarding spelling (i.e., be consistent within an article, don't change from one to the other without a good reason, American subject=American spelling, etc.). — DIEGO talk 16:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
To sum up, my position is that we should follow common sense and prefer "biblical" when obviously used as a common adjective, but "Biblical" when used as a proper adjective (to accompany "Bible", and commensurate with "Talmud / Talmudic", "Veda / Vedic", "Quran / Quranic", and all other proper adjectives in English.) Also, while there may be some exceptions, numerous dictionaries and style authorities that find both "biblical" and "Biblical" to be acceptable forms, are not at all hard to find. Til Eulenspiegel 16:47, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I'm an uninterested outside party to this discussion. I think it may not be necessary to have any style guideline for this on Wikipedia, since the dictionary says both are acceptable. However, if any guideline is to be adopted, the one recommended by Til Eulenspiegel at the top of this section above seems to make the most sense and to be grammatically correct, i.e. use lower case when the word is used as a common adjective and upper case when used as a proper adjective. -- Really Spooky 00:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is the relevant section of the MOS, where the outcome will go: MOS:CAPS#Religions.2C_deities.2C_philosophies.2C_doctrines_and_their_adherents
Note the current status quo, it reads: "Scriptures like the Bible and Qur'an should be capitalized."
If consensus ends up opting to enforce lowercase in all situations for the adjectival form of "Bible", it will have to be made clear in some way:
"Scriptures like the Bible and Qur'an should be capitalized. However, note that while the adjectival form of Qur'an is Qur'anic or Koranic, the corresponding adjectival form of Bible should always be spelled biblical.
Of course, this would be ignoring virtually every English Dictionary in the world, that explicitly state 'Biblical' is acceptable spelling, but what do silly Dictionary writers know, compared to the true authorities, the writers of style guides? (The ones that agree with "biblical", that is, not the other ones I found, like the US and Canadian government printing offices style guides.) Til Eulenspiegel 21:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) Just a little note regarding prescriptivism. This word is a very good word to avoid. It is normally used by people who think they know what is right, to avoid interacting with criticisms of their position. "Don't listen to them, they're prescriptivists." Prescriptivism is not vicious, it is helpful. All language is prescriptive or we'd not have common meanings for words, spelling, letters or sounds.
A question arises when people from different backgrounds want to work on the same project, "what will be our common terminology?" Appeals to various authorities are then made, but any authority is by nature a prescription, and the very discussion is about establishing a prescription.
If we're against prescription, we need to delete all Wiki policies (and specifically those to do with style). But we're not against prescription really, we're against prescriptions that don't suit our tastes. And that's OK, but it goes without saying and applies equally to everyone.
I think it's great people have compromised here. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's more important that a decision is made, than what the decision actually is. It's all about going forward together. And we did it! Woohoo! Alastair Haines 00:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, there is a problem with this discussion. The problem is that there are good arguments for both sides. Where people have put a case for either side I think they've done quite a good job. When it comes to commenting on the opposing position, however, I think both sides have resorted to rhetoric that is more or less "put downs" of those who might hold that position.
Actually, there's probably a case to be put that lower case biblical actually discriminates in favour of the Bible over Veda, Qur'an etc. Words most amenable to being accepted as lower case are those that have become so much part of the culture that they are virtually common noun phrases, popular perception has lost sight of the Roman in roman numeral or French in french fry. We "own" the word so much, it's part of the family, as it were. Vedic and Qur'anic "feel" right because we don't quite know what to do with them, lower case suggests we'd be expected to be familiar with the referent. A young reader can gloss right over Melchizedek -- long name beginning with M -- capitals often signal -- specialized-specific-word-understood-from-context-alone-please-dont-panic.
One day, maybe, people will get to the point of saying "what a vedic train of thought that was," or "that was a lecture of rather qur'anic thoroughness," but until the day that the Vedas and Qur'an are widely understood household names, they are relegated to the capitalization English spray-paints on such unwelcome imigrants. Not for them the privelege granted to successful industrialists, honoured by, "give me half-an-hour I've got to hoover the carpet," or to war heros like, "you've got me in a full nelson with that one!"
PS Chicago MS first pub 1906. OED first pub 1928 (though A came out in 1888). Contemporaries unless we want to split straws, I don't, so who ever wants to argue about it can win, I surrender in advance.
Sleep on it, we want to be friends again by next week. Cheers everyone. Alastair Haines 05:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Checking back, I think Ruakh made the point better than either of us. In two lines he addressed directly a major concern of Til's. He heard the issue, made no accusations, no appeals to authority, registered no vote, just demonstrated a sensitivity for usage and offered a new angle that helps side-line a red-herring.
How about, "always lower case b, except in lists, like Vedic, Qur'anic, Biblical, and other places where avoiding ambiguity or reader surprize may lead editors to judge a capital more expedient."
At the moment the discussion is Til v the World. If he agreed to this we'd almost have consensus. Alastair Haines 07:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"Biblical" technically just means "book-related", so technically, it should be uncapitalised. In french, for example, "biblio" refers to books in general (eg. "bibliobus" is just a mobile library). Clinkophonist ( talk) 20:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Was a former Featured Article, but poorly referenced. Badly in need of in-line citations and a broader base of references. Anyone willing to tackle the article, maybe as a One featured article per quarter project? Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 17:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
One of the problems I have run into on the topic of the 1611 KJV, is heavy opinion. The opinion that KJV is somehow vastly superior to all other translations, is undeniably an opinion. If one tries to source that versions validity one would only be sourcing another opinion, so you are right where you started. Authorized King James Version seems to be a fairly decent account of the history of the translation. I'd like to know more about the 47 translators from the C of E. Knosisophile ( talk) 00:38, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Please see Talk:Bible errata#Wife Beater's Bible for a query concerning conflicting/proper sourcing, on this unusual topic. Thanks. -- Quiddity ( talk) 21:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Discussion on Talk:Tanakh. Best, -- Shirahadasha 04:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
against-- Java7837 ( talk) 19:54, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I am nominating the newly created article Jewish-Christian Gospels: Patristic Citations for deletion, as I don't think it meets the criteria for wikipedia articles. I would however welcome input from any interests parties in the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jewish-Christian Gospels: Patristic Citations. Thank you. John Carter 00:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Samson has been nominated for Good Article Review reviews are welcomed-- Java7837 ( talk) 23:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I found a lonely little article called Jabesh-Gilead on WP:CLEANUP. I had a stab at tidying it up, but thought I'd send it over here as it seems to belong in the domain of WP:BIBLE. Alert me on my talk page if you disagree. Manning ( talk) 11:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I just undid a cut-and-paste move from the first to the second title. However, looking at the Bible Gateway site, all of the English translations they have uses the second spelling. Does anyone see any reason not to move it back to the second spelling, but properly?-- uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 15:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
There are two proposals to merge Holy anointing oil, one to merge it with Shemen Afarsimon and one to merge it with Chrism. Please see Holy anointing oil for discussion locations. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 04:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC) Spiritual use of cannabis states " Anthropologist Sula Benet claimed historical evidence and etymological comparison show that the Holy anointing oil used by the Hebrews contained cannabis extracts, "kaneh bosm," and that it is also listed as an incense tree in the original Hebrew and Aramaic texts of the Old Testament. The early Christians used cannabis oil for medicinal purposes and as part of the baptismal process to confirm the forgiveness of sins and "right of passage" into the Kingdom of Heaven. The Unction, Seal, laying on of hands, the Counselor, and the Holy Spirit are all often synonymous of the Holy anointing oil.[2] Early Gnostic texts indicate that the Chrism is essential to becoming a "Christian." [3][4]" Knosisophile ( talk) 00:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Gospel of Mark could use some help tracking down missing citations to get ready for peer review. Thanks in advance. Ovadyah ( talk) 16:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
See it here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/non-notable bible-division articles Noroton ( talk) 03:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Following the suggestion of several comments there, this is now a proposed guideline:
I wonder if you would like to comment on it. Clinkophonist ( talk) 19:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the exact scope of this project? My question is prompted by having recently seen articles relating to such books as 3 Maccabees and the like. Would articles relating to these books, whose status as "biblical" is disputed by some, be included or not? I am operating on the assumption that 1 Enoch, which is considered canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, is included, but would those books which are no longer considered necessarily canonical by any Abrahamic religion, but are still, at least nominally, "Biblical", like the apocryphal book 3 Maccabees, be considered as within the scope of this project or not? John Carter ( talk) 15:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
If a significant religious group (like the Ethiopian Orthodox Church - which is the main form of Christianity in Ethiopia) believe that its part of the Bible then I would say that it is clearly within the scope of the project. The Goals section of the project page also includes Apocrypha within the project's scope. Clinkophonist ( talk) 12:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for placing the article Binding of Isaac within the scope of your WikiProject. About 3 weeks ago, I proposed to change the name of the article to "Sacrifice of Isaac" at Talk:Binding of Isaac#Name of this article, but so far haven't seen any response. I plan to go ahead and rename the article on March 20, 2008 unless there are objections. I invite you to visit the article and submit any comments you have on the matter. Thanks! -- Bryan H Bell ( talk) 18:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
... in Wikipedia. I would especially like to link to that specific bible passage. Is there a standard way to do this? Thanks. Maikel ( talk) 11:53, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
We are currently holding elections for coordinators to help ensure that directly project related activity, such as peer review, assessment, portal maintainance, and the like, are done for all the projects relating to Christianity. For what it's worth, as the "instigator" of the proposed coordinators, the purpose of having them is not to try to impose any sort of "discipline" on the various projects relating to Christianity, but just to ensure that things like assessment, peer review, portal maintainance, and other similar directly project-related functions get peformed for all the various projects relating to Christianity. If there are any individuals with this project who are already doing such activities for the project, and who want to take on the role more formally, I think nominations are being held open until the end of the elections themselves. And, for the purposes of this election, any member in good standing of any of the Christianity projects can either be nominated or express their votes at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Coordinators/Election 1. Thank you for your attention. John Carter ( talk) 00:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Please could someone take a look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Judah and Special:WhatLinksHere/Tamar and help fix links to disambiguation pages? I've tried, but don't know enough about the characters involved to do any more. Thanks, DuncanHill ( talk) 09:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed a move from Lazarus and Dives to Rich man and Lazarus. At the moment, there are only two participants in the discussion, so it would be helpful if some folk here could have a look at this, and join the discussion, so a consensus can be reached. StAnselm ( talk) 22:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I have created a new version of the project banner at User:John Carter/Bible. It can be found with all the drop-downs displayed at User talk:John Carter/Bible. I think that, if it were to be used, the talk pages of the various articles relevant to this project might be made substantially less cluttered. It is I hope understood that the simple fact of having variant options does not mean that they will necessarily all be used each time, however. Anyway, I would welcome input on whether we should perhaps alter the banner to include the additional specifications or not. John Carter ( talk) 17:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't Template:WikiProject Biblical Criticism be merged with Template:WikiProject Bible? Does the workgroup really need a separate banner? Richard001 ( talk) 08:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
The article Dating the Bible seems embarassingly inadequate.
For example,
In comparison, consider this series of articles from from The Straight Dope, despite its name quite a responsible and solidly researched column from a Chicago newspaper. Even at quite an informal and cursory level, the treatment still runs to five articles:
It seems to me that, at a minimum, Wikipedia should be aspiring to give at least the level of detail of these articles. Our current coverage, especially for the Hebrew Bible, falls very far short.
Can I suggest that the present Dating the Bible needs to be massively expanded? And that, better, each of the five questions above deserves its own separate article; with Dating the Bible changed to summary-style, to act as a central starting point and distributor to the other articles? Jheald ( talk) 07:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking for an article to describe this document which is mentioned in Deu 29:21. Trying to look up the term on Wikipedia only yields a Thelemic and a Mormon text which aren't it. __ meco ( talk) 16:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
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I'd appreciate some more eyeballs at Torah, (which is also where Pentateuch and Five Books of Moses redirect).
Meieimatai ( talk · contribs) has been re-writing the article [15], on the basis apparently that it should be "essentially an article in the Jewish religion subject area". [16]
I think this is unacceptable. Wikipedia is supposed to be NPOV, covering all angles in an informational scholarly way. In particular, as is clear from the redirects, this is supposed to be the article on the first five books of the Bible for all perspectives, not just Judaism.
Particularly unacceptable, IMO, are
I don't know whether you would all agree with that take, but some more views would be very welcome. Jheald ( talk) 11:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
There is discussion on the talk page of the above article regarding how much weight should be given to traditional dating of Biblical works relative to modern academic conclusions at Talk:Dating the Bible#"but according to medieval sources...". All input is welcome. John Carter ( talk) 17:47, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Because this issue comes up often and can be a source of contention, I am proposing adding a paragraph to the existing WP:NPOV/FAQ#religion with a more careful and clearer explanation of language to use and how to present the subject to implement WP:NPOV in articles involving disputes between religious views and historians/scientists etc. Doubtless the proposal can be improved. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 22:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Currently, 834 articles are assigned to this project, of which 270, or 32.4%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place a template on your project page.
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I have proposed this template for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 July 30. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 14:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi! A request for comments has been made for this proposed guideline. Please comment at WT:Naming conventions (Hebrew)#Community RFC on proposed guideline. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 05:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Several editors hold the POV that the Bible is "mythology" and dispute that any other opinion could be valid. History clearly shows that this term has been used in an antagonistic and polemic sense to attack the believers in the Bible. I contend that it is not neutral for wikipedia to declare the Bible, or any part of it, as "mythology", simply because those who resent this rhetoric are significant in number, and that a more neutral compromise wording should be found to express what they are trying to say. The problem is that such a neutral compromise would defeat their purpose which is to have a POV article that is inflammatory to the millions who choose to believe the Bible is factual; therefore they have declared that the concerns of all those editors who disagree with them is invalid, and only their own POV counts. Even the Pope has written a book asking people to stop referring to the Bible as "mythology", so the disagreement and the existence of other POVs can easily be sourced. I am overwhelmed and fatigued trying to explain at Talk:Noah's Ark why it is inflammatory not neutral to declare any part of the Bible as "mythology" and would appreciate some fresh voices. Once they succeed at declaring one Biblical article "mythology", they will use exactly the same arguments to declare all other Biblical topics "mythology" no matter how one-sided this POV is. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 13:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Is there a policy regarding the rendering of the Tetragrammaton in articles? I feel that the use of "Yahweh" in Biblical quotes and references is POV, since this is not the common name found in English Bibles, and is only one possible transliteration, of which the correct one will probably never be known. In such cases, I usually use either " God of Israel" or "the LORD." Thoughts? -- Eliyak T· C 15:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.
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Is the Koran a bible? Is the Book of Morman a part of a bible? How do you define the word bible within the scope of this project? Phil Burnstein ( talk) 09:20, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Bible with a capital B. This is not the french Wikipedia; Bible either means The Bible or is a very general term (including technical documentation about the character backgrounds in a soap opera). Try Wikipedia:WikiProject Religious texts. Clinkophonist ( talk) 01:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I just stumbled upon Synoptic Gospels, and I was shocked at the quality of the article. I was embarrassed. I completely cut away the last "paragraph" of the article because the author didn't use any punctuation, and I couldn't figure out what they were trying to say. Much of the rest of the stub is in bad shape, lacking references, poor phraseology, poor grammar, etc. I tried to fix a few run on sentences, but I finally decided to call in the experts in the field for a major overhaul. So I come to you, WikiProject Bible, and present to you an article in your area in great need of some help. Gentgeen ( talk) 13:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Please review the discussion here
and comment on whether the page should be moved back to article space. Thanks. - Ac44ck ( talk) 21:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Members of this project may be interested in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Roman numerals in Bible citation.
I've made this page, a sourced analysis of Mt 10:16-23, and believe it to be under the scope of this wikiproject. If members agree, please be so kind as to add it to your wikiproject. Thanks! Carl.bunderson ( talk) 20:29, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking of creating lists of individuals and groups (tribes, nations, etc.) mentioned in each book of the Bible. I would start with Genesis and move through the rest of the Bible over time (unless other people decided to complete lists for other books of the Bible, in which case I could skip them), at least for the books this makes sense for. I know there is already a list of Biblical names but I think creating a list for each book of the Bible is a good idea because some people may find a list for each book more useful that the vast alphabetically-organized list that already exists. Each book of the Bible can be considered a unique literary work so a list for each book makes sense. The list of Biblical names can be regarded as a comprehensive 'master list' while each new list can be considered a more manageable 'sub-list.' The list of Biblical names is also more general than the lists I am thinking of making because it covers every noun listed in the Bible (i.e. names of persons, places, things, etc.). A person may instead want a more manageable and specific list such as 'tribes mentioned in Exodus' or 'individuals mentioned in Joshua' instead and this is where the shorter and more specific lists come in. I would also include more information on each name than the big list provides (i.e. relation to other persons, tribal or national affiliation, chapters and verses they appear in, etc.), although I would be aiming for brevity rather than completeness (which is what an article is for). I would make each list as comprehensive as possible. I was also thinking of making lists of places named in each book as well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? -- Schnurrbart ( talk) 05:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
You do realise how absolutely huge that list will be?
And how controversial - for example, Judges 18:30 - is that ....Manasseh... or ...Moses.... You might find most translations give 'Manasseh', but these derive from the 'MNShSh' in the Masoretic text, where the N is very unusually inserted (with a caret), suggesting to scholars that it originally read 'MShSh', which is Moses. So is that Manasseh some new individual, to be added to your list, or is it Moses who definitely is listed as having a 'Gershom' as a son.
Is 'Reuel' another name for 'Jethro', itself being another name for 'Hobab', who may have a father named 'Reuel' , or are these actually different people in some way?
Jehoiachin (YH+YH+ChN), Jeconiah (YH+ChN+YH), or Coniah (ChN+YH)?
What about Ishbaal ('man of baal') - do you list it as that (which appears in some places in the Bible) or as the POV-but-biblical 'Ishbosheth' ('man of the shameful one'), which appears in physically earlier places?
Is Jesus' step-paternal grandfather to be named 'Jacob' or 'Heli' or are they different people entirely?
Clinkophonist ( talk) 01:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been looking around for some manual of style for Bible quotations and articles about Bible verses. I've found the following:
One of the main aspects that I would like standardised is which translation should be preferred for quotations. Obviously if there is a reason to quote a specific translation, different translations should be used. However we should have a project page which clearly indicates which is preferred for various situations, even if it means we need to define our differences in a WP:ENGVAR-like fashion. i.e. Topics about Judaism may be better served by using a preferred translation like JPS1917, and Christian topics may be better served by using a preferred translation like KJV or ASV.
One important issue that is not religious in nature is the use of quotations from copyrighted translations, which should be minimised, and specifically the UK copyright of the KJV.
With regards to articles about bible verses, I am a big fan of removing Wikipedia content which is within scope of Wikisource unless it is critically discussed on the Wikipedia article (i.e. removing the full text of long poems). In that vein, most Wikipedia articles about bible verses contain a section with many different translations. Wikisource has been slowly growing a complete interlinear bible (e.g. s:Bible/Obadiah/1/1) and I believe it would be beneficial to use this Wikisource resource rather than having many translations on the Wikipedia article. John Vandenberg ( chat) 04:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
If the version is pertinent to the interpretation, in the context of the article's reference to the text, then give one example of each pertinent variation. For example, on an article about homosexuality and leviticus 18/21, you have:
All of which are quite different, and range from very broad (all homosexuality is a detestable sin) to very narrow (if you're married [to a woman] and want to have gay sex, don't do it in your wife's bed, that's just sick). I picked this particular passage precisely because its one of those with the widest variation in translations.
Here's another - part of Isaiah 34:14:
Some mention Lilith, a demon which Jewish legend considers to be Adam's first wife (before Eve), while others don't mention it.
Essentially you'd have to show a fair sample of the translations, rather than just picking the one that suits your opinion best. If the article is talking about a specific occasion where one translation has an issue (eg. ' thou shalt commit adultery'), then just quote that, but if its about a translation controversy (or on a subject where the translation is controversial) - eg. 'presbyter' verses 'priest', then list all significant variations (only one translation each would be necessary).
And don't limit this to just variations between modern English Translations. Other languages translations may have significant variations too (the difference being obscured by the fact they are in other languages). And even though most modern translations are based on the masoretic text, you should still consider the Septuagint/Syriac Peshitta/ Samaritan version/ Dead Sea scrolls/ Hexapla texts/etc. if these have a significant difference to the Masoretic text.
Basically, don't quote if you don't have to. And if you need to refer to a verse, use the Bibleverse template, rather than linking to one particular version. Clinkophonist ( talk) 00:59, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
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Any comments regarding the structure and function of Christianity related material are welcome at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/General Forum#Project organization. Be prepared for some rather lengthy comments, though. There is a lot of material to cover there. John Carter ( talk) 17:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 08:52, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Noah's Ark for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. -- Vassyana ( talk) 15:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I would like to create category called Category:Enoch in order to re-organize the material in the Enoch series. Enoch is a very mysterious character that would still need to be de-mythologized for the sake of ancient and modern studies in religion. Is there anywhere I can propose or discuss the creation of this category ? ADM ( talk) 20:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
This is an open call for anyone interesting in building up the collection of individual Psalms articles. There's a lot of work to be done but I think every one is notable for their own article. See template here if you're interested. - Epson291 ( talk) 07:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Is the Tree of Life Acacia, specifically the Shittah-tree, or Acacia seyal? The Spiritual use of cannabis states "Elders of the modern religious movement known as the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church consider cannabis to be the eucharist,[28] claiming it as an oral tradition from Ethiopia dating back to the time of Christ.[29] Like the Rastafari, some modern Gnostic Christian sects have asserted that cannabis is the Tree of Life.[30]" After reading the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church webpage that links as reference number 28, I don't think I will change from my current form of Christianity, but have become etomologicaly (I'll officially take credit for that word if it doesn't already exist) confused. Since I don't speak read and write all of the languages in question, and there would be serious doubts of anyone speaking all of the languages (with knowledge of idioms and so forth), this forum seems to be a great way to pool that knowledge. Tree of Life (Judeo-Christian) is a great article on the subject, but modern Christianity is multifaceted. It would be nice to be able to reference all the various points of view on this topic. Could this be an aspect of the descendants of Japheth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knosisophile ( talk • contribs) 23:54, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
I want everyone to note that we weren't trying to step on anyone's toes here. Some of the people at the WikiProject Christianity, including me, have come to the conclusion that it might make things a bit easier for us, with our roughly 30,000 articles, to have navigation boxes to link some of the articles which most directly link to the topics which are of highest importance to our project. This includes some biblical material. I want everyone to know that we are not seeking to lay some sort of "claim" on the material. All the templates, including the Biblical ones, that currently exist can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Core topics work group/Templates. Anyone who would wish to make any comments or suggestions on any of them is free to do so there. And, yes, most of the ones I've recently created aren't real pretty yet. I figured I'd wait till we knew what all was in them before I tried to make them more appealing. John Carter ( talk) 22:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Just to say I've created an article called The Children's Bible Story Book which I did a while ago, and it has not been rated by the WikiProject. I think it should be. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 20:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I have created the article Textual variants in the New Testament. If someone wants to help, please edit. Leszek Jańczuk ( talk) 15:21, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I am attempting to help make it easier for all the various portals which relate to Christian subjects do not disproportionately use certain articles relevant to their subject and in the process find other good articles relevant to the subject not being used as often as they could. Toward that purpose, I have started the page User:John Carter/Christianity portals. I realize that this portal listed above is not exclusively related to Christianity, and acknowledge that. However, because the subject material is related to a fairly large extent, it makes sense to have it included anyway. If anyone here is involved in the upkeep of the above portal, please feel free to look at the page above and offer any input you see fit. Thank you. John Carter ( talk) 17:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I want to inform the community that I have done a GA Reassessment of Isaac and found the article lacking. Not very much will need to be done but enough that I could not keep it GA without some effort. I am notifying all interested projects that I have held this article for one week pending editing. The review can be found here. If you have any questions please feel free to contact my talk page. H1nkles ( talk) 23:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Just to point out, the Children's Bible Story Book article needs ratings from this wikiproject. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.
We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.
If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 22:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I have done the GA Reassessment of Ishmael as part of the GA Sweeps project. I have found a few items that concern me about the article. My review can be found here. I have held the article for a week and I am notifying all the interested projects in the hope that work can be done to keep it at GA. Please contact me at my talk page if you have any questions. H1nkles ( talk) 16:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks
Arlen22 (
talk) 19:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)Arlen22
Got it. #~~~~
It will look like this.
Arlen22 (
talk) 20:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There's a flag saying it needs an expert edit. I have good claim to be an expert on the subject, so i did a pretty complete edit, added a bunch of references, etc. What else should be done (if anything) in order to remove the flag, and hopefully get the article recategorized as past "Start" level?
Thanks!
Sderose ( talk) 03:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedians at
Talk:Roman Catholic Church are discussing the merits of changing the article name as such.
Roman Catholic Church →
Catholic
Church. Please share your opinions
there. --
Carlaude
talk 12:02, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a backup of the talk page at the time of the project page overhaul. Do not edit the contents of this page. The regular archiving is not affected. The talk page and the archives can be found here. |
Bible Project‑class | |||||||
|
Vote at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Moses so as too get Moses into a featured article Java7837 23:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I have noted that this project does not yet engage in assessment. I am a member of WikiProject Religion, which does engage in assessments. I was wondering if this project would have any objections to the Religion project setting up its banner in a way similar to WikiProject Australia, WikiProject Military history, and others, which have the "parent" banner on top with the assessment criteria and a section below indicating which particular projects have specific interest in the article. I could set up the Religion banner in a way to accomplish this. However, given the complexity involved, I would not want to do so and have things changed back later. Please inform me if this arrangement would be to your satisfaction or not, so I can know how to proceed. Thank you. Badbilltucker 14:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
User:MonkeeSage/Bible templates lists an alternate way to make Bible references. Ideally, there would be one template to the most versatile and preferably non-commercial (until someone comes up with something better, its the usyd.edu.au site). The alternate MS-made templates boast some added functionality, but does this start the trend of using a particular commercial source, and more importantly, using different templates that promote particular versions, etc? Raising the issue here rather than del-listing the templates. - Ste| vertigo 23:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The group indicated above was recently revitalized for, among other things, the purpose of working on those articles whose content is such that the article does not fall within the scope of any particular denomination. To most effectively do this, however, we would benefit greatly if there were at least one member from this Project working on those articles. On that basis, I would encourage and welcome any member of this Project willing to work on those articles to join the Religion WikiProject. Thank you. Badbilltucker 22:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I recently found that our article on Jesus is the first page that appears when anyone does a Google search of the subject. It is currently, regrettably, only at GA status. On that basis, I would request any individuals who might be interested in helping to bring this article up to FA status to indicate their support for the article being chosen as the AID article at Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive#Jesus. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Moreh, Mosaic Covenant, Shemhamphorasch and Similarities between the Bible and the Qur'an have been tagged as requiring expert attention. Any such assistance in improving these articles would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Badbilltucker 02:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
An RFC has been filed to determine whether or not the position of the Jesus Seminar should be included in Lazarus and Dives. Your comments would be most welcome. -- Joopercoopers 23:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
So, uh.. I went to Catholic school for 8 years, and I have no idea what this page is talking about: Son of Iniquity. It sounds a bit made-up to me, but is there any redeemable material there? -- Strangerer ( Talk | Contribs) 07:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I've certainly heard of Son of Perdition - the article should be moved there, as that's the far more usual name. It is just a name though. Its a bit like having separate articles for "Odds bodkins", "Gadzooks", and "Zounds", all of which are swear words referencing Jesus - "God's body-kin", "God's hooks", "God's wounds", respectively. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion about whether or not to rename/move Paul of Tarsus. -- Pastordavid 01:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a fierce controversy raging between mostly myself, and about three other editors, at Talk:Book of Daniel over how much representation should be given to the view that it was actually written by the prophet Daniel. I don't know about other Churches, but my church definitively states it was written by Daniel, (at least in its original form). The other three editors are basically insisting that this is not a very significant viewpoint, and so the article should side with scholarly theories and conjectures on the authorship, and has no obligation to stay neutral to all viewpoints. They are at the point now where they are threatening to have me banned from editing the article, because so far I am practically alone in standing in their way of a one-sided hack job. Note that I am not trying to omit a full discussion of their view from the article, but I only think it is fair that they likewise allow some space to other sources on what is canonical even though they may disagree with them. ፈቃደ ( ውይይት) 02:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
This article was a list of three figures from the Jewish Bible when it was put up for deletion. The subject deserves an article, and I'm trying to flesh it out with examples from Christianity (where the concept is obviously important) as well as examples from Islam and other religions. Please help now and we can help a lot of readers with a useful encyclopedia article. As a side benefit, it would be useful to demonstrate (politely) that the subject is serious enough not to deserve the scorn that is part of the deletion discussion now. The discussion is here:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people who went to heaven alive
Noroton 18:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem with a dispute at Noah's Ark with several editors who want to endorse the POV that the Ark is a "fictional ship" by putting it into a category "fictional ships", I said this is a POV but they are now adding the category "mythological ships" which is also obviously a POV-pushing category, and they say all those who do not agree with them are "insignificant" and so discount all opposition. ፈቃደ ( ውይይት) 23:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
There are many article that reference a Bible verse or passage. Is there any on going effort or planned effort to try to search through articles and convert references to links to the passage on Bible Gateway or wikisource? I think that'd be a good task (probably for a bot). Akubhai 12:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
No, that's a very bad idea. The reason is that Bible Gateway is very biased in its selection; it excludes all scholarly versions (like the NRSV) and all Catholic version of the Bible (like the NAB), as well as Septuagint-based (LXX) versions (whether Greek or English). The Bible reference template (eg. Genesis 1:1 ) links to a site (maintained by a wikipedia editor) where users can select which version of the bible they wish to read the verse[s] in; since its maintained by a wikipedia editor, its much more comprehensive.
As I am new to this project (and Wikipedia actually) please forgive me if this is a silly question or one that has already been addressed. I was reading over this project's goals and according to #2 we are to unify the presentation of the individual books of the bible. My question is, is there a certain structure that we are suppose to use (and if so is there an example of it already in place)? Thanks. Seraphim84 21:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
No, its just that there is a wide range of quality and completeness in the articles about the various books. Compare Books of Kings, which is fairly decent, to Leviticus, which is essentially just a content summary. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that this differences in scope between this project and Wikipedia:WikiProject Biblical Criticism are comparatively minor. Both effectively cover the same basic subjects and content, just from different perspectives. Also, at least it seems to me, that neither project is particularly active. (I could be wrong here, of course). Maybe merging the two together would be a way to rekindle interest in the activities of the existing projects and possibly improve the amount and quality of content related to the Bible and related subjects, which is I think the ultimate goal of both projects. And, of course, I think the potential of redundant banners and assessments, when there are only such minor differences between the projects, might be avoided as well. John Carter 22:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Its a bit late to mention it, but I think its a good suggestion; the alternative was to make it part of the Anti-Systemic-Bias (in Wikipedia) WikiProject. -- User talk:FDuffy 20:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I can see the connection to this project, but it looks more like a subproject of Anti-Systemic-Bias to me. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
http://users.pandora.be/kenneshugo/index.html is a website containing translations of representative topics out of the 10 books in Dutch of Prof. Thijs , Engeneering , Belgian University and High School of Hasselt. This books describe the pyramids sacred geometry as full compatible with the laws of our positive sciences. He gives a mathematical and astronomical explanation of the pyramidal model.
He mainly decodes the explicit number metaphors in the Bible Ancient and New Testament, reflecting exactly the maths and geometry of the Great Pyramid model , and also astronomical and astrological realities.
I suggested to put in your linktopics a link to my translations website above for : sacred geometry (talk page) pyramid (talk page)
Perhaps Your religion team like to see other references in articles or links in other wikepedia articles?
84.196.90.174 18:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
First, we should have a newsletter. Second, we should put the NIV on here or Wikisource. I'll ask over there. Please respond to this on my talk page. Laleena talk to me contributions to Wikipedia 12:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
There has been a recent discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Psalm 83:18 about what "sections" of the Bible are sufficiently notable in and of themselves to have separate articles. My personal belief is that any major "tale" of the Bible should qualify as its own article, and that the Psalms in particular each probably deserve at least an individual section apiece. I frankly have no clue about how to handle the Proverbs. By "tale" above I am referring to the major coherent stories, such as Joshua at Jericho, Adam and Eve (which might itself get some subarticles), Jesus in the Garden at Gethsemane, and so on. I would welcome any discussion of this matter. Thank you. John Carter 13:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent)I had to laugh when I read the line, "some "real-world" activity, like maybe wars and the like." Yeah, that definitely qualifies as real-world activity. :) But overall I think you've got the basics of a fine standard for separate articles. 24.4.253.249 20:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
OMG. If you investigate this it looks like there's a huge amount of articles like this. There's already been a general consensus reached on this issue, but certain people seem to be ignoring it. Clinkophonist ( talk) 18:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Please discuss proposed page move at Talk:Circumcision in the Bible#Proposed move to Circumcision and religion. -- Coppertwig 00:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I had an idea of creating 1189 pages of summary/commentary/issues of every chapter of the Bible. I actually started setting up the framework and got challenged two or three minutes in. Do you think that this would be a good project? My vision is for every chapter to be represented eventually. Say for example you want to know more about the third chapter of Ruth. That would be a page. Every page would have verifiable sources. Would this be a good idea for a project? If so, what would the index page be? Would this be a category page? Fusek71 22:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)Fusek71
It transpires that this matter is more prevalent than I had initially thought. I have arranged an AfD on this matter:
For a good while, User:Rktect has been making significant modifications to various biblical articles — for example, compare his/her changes to Stations list here. S/he has been blocked four times, twice in the last three months, after long insertions of original research. Please compare the current version of Elim (Bible) with the way it was before Rktect began editing it in July. I'd appreciate it if some of you in this wikiproject would watch a bunch of these articles, lest this OR be restored. Nyttend 23:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
A proposal has been made on Talk:Bible to split the current Bible article into two separate articles, Hebrew Bible and Christian Bible, with Bible becoming a redirect to Bible (disambiguation). Best, -- Shirahadasha 05:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Discussion has proceeded and proposals have been made to restructure and rewrite the Bible article. Please provide input into this discussion at Talk:Bible. Best, -- Shirahadasha 20:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
A debate has arisen today at Talk:Creationism regarding capitalization. It seems that on wikipedia, all proper adjectives are capitalized, eg. we are supposed write 'Vedic' when describing the Veda, 'Talmudic' for the Talmud, 'Lithuanian' for Lithuania, etc., that is, as opposed to "vedic" "talmudic" and "lithuanian". That is the normal rule for all proper adjectives in English. However, it seems that there are a few academic style guides that apparently make a single exception for the Proper Adjective to describe the Bible, and insist that it be written "biblical" rather than "Biblical". I advise that Wikipedia in order to maintain a semblance of neutrality, not adopt this style, which I claim is followed by a minority, but the editor debating me claims by a majority. It is inherently unfair and inconsistent to reserve a special rule for the Bible among all other books and insist its accompanying adjective be the only Proper Adjective in the English language to be written in lowercase. Til Eulenspiegel 14:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[BELOW IS THE DISCUSSION COPIED FROM Talk:Creationism#Capitalisation of "Biblical" Why repeat my points verbatim here?]
All proper adjectives in the English language are capitalized. For example, we write "Quranic" and not quranic, "Vedic" and not vedic, "Australian" and not australian, so why must "Biblical" be a special exception? It makes no sense at all. If you check the history of the usage of the word, you will see that "Biblical" has always been more common than "biblical" according to the OED, notwithstanding what a few recent style guides like Chicago may attempt to impose. Til Eulenspiegel 14:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[ABOVE COMMENTS PASTED FROM DISCUSSION AT TALK:CREATIONISM]
For what it's worth, here is a list of reliable sources (both religious and otherwise) that do not capitalize biblical, except in special circumstances (i.e., First word in sentence, part of title, part of a proper name [e.g., Women for Biblical Equality], etc.). Note that all of these sources capitalize Bible unless using the word generically (e.g., "...is the bible of conspiracy theorists"). Despite another editor's belief that biblical is the only proper adjective not capitalized (apparently an indication of prejudice against the Bible), these sources feature many other examples of non-capitalized proper adjectives (e.g., godly, scriptural, christological, french fries, bourbon whiskey, venetian blinds, quixotic, roman numeral, etc.):
Style Manuals that specifically mention biblical as a non-capitalized word or direct writers to use the first example in Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged or Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (which do not capitalize biblical) when in doubt about capitalization:
— DIEGO talk 21:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Since a 3O was requested, I'll provide one even though you're also going to open an RFC. In my opinion, since modern usage (including the MLA - I couldn't find an actual link to their style suggestion, but their own website uses the lowercase format [3]) clearly supports "biblical", I'd suggest that become the preferred usage if a guideline is added to the MOS. I'm not going to suggest that Wikipedia go contrary to the Chicago Manual, the APA, MLA, and the Society of Biblical Literature by using a capital B when all of those style organizations suggest lower. Strunk & White do not address the issue in the Third Edition (the copy I have). -- Darkwind ( talk) 04:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
To read the debate up to this point, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bible#Specific policy needed on capitalisation.
I trust that every opponent of the Bible being capitalized is working overtime to ensure that the
Qur'an be spelled qur'an, the
Book of Mormon the book of mormon, the
Five Classics the five classics, the
Bagavadgita the bagavidgita, the
Tipitaka tipitaka,
Upanishads be upanishads, the
Torah, torah, and repeat this for all of the hundreds of
Religious texts that Wikipedia includes within it (Please check out
Religious Texts if you doubt me).
The effort to use the lower case 'b' is laudable in that Wikipedia doesn't seek to promote a particular religion. But be mindful of the fact that this effort is only applied to Christianity normally, and is in effect giving Christianity special treatment, never mind the fact that this treatment is negative.
So long as it is considered normative to title books with upper case letters, it will be proper to title the Bible (and it's companion adjective "Biblical") with an upper case letter. Any other choice is inconsistent if not universally applied to all the , which itself would be a gross violation of the naming conventions of English literature.
If you're going to do this, be consistent.
Respectfully submitted by
Signaj90 (
talk) 15:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
RJRocket53 ( talk) 03:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I support biblical for reasons stated above. It seems to be the form overwhelmingly preferred by academic style guides (including the Society of Biblical Literature), print journalism (including the AP and evangelical Christian publications such as Christianity Today). I think that usage on Wikipedia should reflect the predominant usage in reliable sources, rather than an appeal to emotionality or grammatical prescriptivism. If this is basically a American/British usage difference, then I think we should follow current WP:STYLE guidelines ( WP:ENGVAR) regarding spelling (i.e., be consistent within an article, don't change from one to the other without a good reason, American subject=American spelling, etc.). — DIEGO talk 16:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
To sum up, my position is that we should follow common sense and prefer "biblical" when obviously used as a common adjective, but "Biblical" when used as a proper adjective (to accompany "Bible", and commensurate with "Talmud / Talmudic", "Veda / Vedic", "Quran / Quranic", and all other proper adjectives in English.) Also, while there may be some exceptions, numerous dictionaries and style authorities that find both "biblical" and "Biblical" to be acceptable forms, are not at all hard to find. Til Eulenspiegel 16:47, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I'm an uninterested outside party to this discussion. I think it may not be necessary to have any style guideline for this on Wikipedia, since the dictionary says both are acceptable. However, if any guideline is to be adopted, the one recommended by Til Eulenspiegel at the top of this section above seems to make the most sense and to be grammatically correct, i.e. use lower case when the word is used as a common adjective and upper case when used as a proper adjective. -- Really Spooky 00:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is the relevant section of the MOS, where the outcome will go: MOS:CAPS#Religions.2C_deities.2C_philosophies.2C_doctrines_and_their_adherents
Note the current status quo, it reads: "Scriptures like the Bible and Qur'an should be capitalized."
If consensus ends up opting to enforce lowercase in all situations for the adjectival form of "Bible", it will have to be made clear in some way:
"Scriptures like the Bible and Qur'an should be capitalized. However, note that while the adjectival form of Qur'an is Qur'anic or Koranic, the corresponding adjectival form of Bible should always be spelled biblical.
Of course, this would be ignoring virtually every English Dictionary in the world, that explicitly state 'Biblical' is acceptable spelling, but what do silly Dictionary writers know, compared to the true authorities, the writers of style guides? (The ones that agree with "biblical", that is, not the other ones I found, like the US and Canadian government printing offices style guides.) Til Eulenspiegel 21:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) Just a little note regarding prescriptivism. This word is a very good word to avoid. It is normally used by people who think they know what is right, to avoid interacting with criticisms of their position. "Don't listen to them, they're prescriptivists." Prescriptivism is not vicious, it is helpful. All language is prescriptive or we'd not have common meanings for words, spelling, letters or sounds.
A question arises when people from different backgrounds want to work on the same project, "what will be our common terminology?" Appeals to various authorities are then made, but any authority is by nature a prescription, and the very discussion is about establishing a prescription.
If we're against prescription, we need to delete all Wiki policies (and specifically those to do with style). But we're not against prescription really, we're against prescriptions that don't suit our tastes. And that's OK, but it goes without saying and applies equally to everyone.
I think it's great people have compromised here. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's more important that a decision is made, than what the decision actually is. It's all about going forward together. And we did it! Woohoo! Alastair Haines 00:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, there is a problem with this discussion. The problem is that there are good arguments for both sides. Where people have put a case for either side I think they've done quite a good job. When it comes to commenting on the opposing position, however, I think both sides have resorted to rhetoric that is more or less "put downs" of those who might hold that position.
Actually, there's probably a case to be put that lower case biblical actually discriminates in favour of the Bible over Veda, Qur'an etc. Words most amenable to being accepted as lower case are those that have become so much part of the culture that they are virtually common noun phrases, popular perception has lost sight of the Roman in roman numeral or French in french fry. We "own" the word so much, it's part of the family, as it were. Vedic and Qur'anic "feel" right because we don't quite know what to do with them, lower case suggests we'd be expected to be familiar with the referent. A young reader can gloss right over Melchizedek -- long name beginning with M -- capitals often signal -- specialized-specific-word-understood-from-context-alone-please-dont-panic.
One day, maybe, people will get to the point of saying "what a vedic train of thought that was," or "that was a lecture of rather qur'anic thoroughness," but until the day that the Vedas and Qur'an are widely understood household names, they are relegated to the capitalization English spray-paints on such unwelcome imigrants. Not for them the privelege granted to successful industrialists, honoured by, "give me half-an-hour I've got to hoover the carpet," or to war heros like, "you've got me in a full nelson with that one!"
PS Chicago MS first pub 1906. OED first pub 1928 (though A came out in 1888). Contemporaries unless we want to split straws, I don't, so who ever wants to argue about it can win, I surrender in advance.
Sleep on it, we want to be friends again by next week. Cheers everyone. Alastair Haines 05:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Checking back, I think Ruakh made the point better than either of us. In two lines he addressed directly a major concern of Til's. He heard the issue, made no accusations, no appeals to authority, registered no vote, just demonstrated a sensitivity for usage and offered a new angle that helps side-line a red-herring.
How about, "always lower case b, except in lists, like Vedic, Qur'anic, Biblical, and other places where avoiding ambiguity or reader surprize may lead editors to judge a capital more expedient."
At the moment the discussion is Til v the World. If he agreed to this we'd almost have consensus. Alastair Haines 07:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"Biblical" technically just means "book-related", so technically, it should be uncapitalised. In french, for example, "biblio" refers to books in general (eg. "bibliobus" is just a mobile library). Clinkophonist ( talk) 20:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Was a former Featured Article, but poorly referenced. Badly in need of in-line citations and a broader base of references. Anyone willing to tackle the article, maybe as a One featured article per quarter project? Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 17:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
One of the problems I have run into on the topic of the 1611 KJV, is heavy opinion. The opinion that KJV is somehow vastly superior to all other translations, is undeniably an opinion. If one tries to source that versions validity one would only be sourcing another opinion, so you are right where you started. Authorized King James Version seems to be a fairly decent account of the history of the translation. I'd like to know more about the 47 translators from the C of E. Knosisophile ( talk) 00:38, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Please see Talk:Bible errata#Wife Beater's Bible for a query concerning conflicting/proper sourcing, on this unusual topic. Thanks. -- Quiddity ( talk) 21:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Discussion on Talk:Tanakh. Best, -- Shirahadasha 04:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
against-- Java7837 ( talk) 19:54, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I am nominating the newly created article Jewish-Christian Gospels: Patristic Citations for deletion, as I don't think it meets the criteria for wikipedia articles. I would however welcome input from any interests parties in the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jewish-Christian Gospels: Patristic Citations. Thank you. John Carter 00:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Samson has been nominated for Good Article Review reviews are welcomed-- Java7837 ( talk) 23:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I found a lonely little article called Jabesh-Gilead on WP:CLEANUP. I had a stab at tidying it up, but thought I'd send it over here as it seems to belong in the domain of WP:BIBLE. Alert me on my talk page if you disagree. Manning ( talk) 11:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I just undid a cut-and-paste move from the first to the second title. However, looking at the Bible Gateway site, all of the English translations they have uses the second spelling. Does anyone see any reason not to move it back to the second spelling, but properly?-- uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 15:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
There are two proposals to merge Holy anointing oil, one to merge it with Shemen Afarsimon and one to merge it with Chrism. Please see Holy anointing oil for discussion locations. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 04:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC) Spiritual use of cannabis states " Anthropologist Sula Benet claimed historical evidence and etymological comparison show that the Holy anointing oil used by the Hebrews contained cannabis extracts, "kaneh bosm," and that it is also listed as an incense tree in the original Hebrew and Aramaic texts of the Old Testament. The early Christians used cannabis oil for medicinal purposes and as part of the baptismal process to confirm the forgiveness of sins and "right of passage" into the Kingdom of Heaven. The Unction, Seal, laying on of hands, the Counselor, and the Holy Spirit are all often synonymous of the Holy anointing oil.[2] Early Gnostic texts indicate that the Chrism is essential to becoming a "Christian." [3][4]" Knosisophile ( talk) 00:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Gospel of Mark could use some help tracking down missing citations to get ready for peer review. Thanks in advance. Ovadyah ( talk) 16:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
See it here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/non-notable bible-division articles Noroton ( talk) 03:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Following the suggestion of several comments there, this is now a proposed guideline:
I wonder if you would like to comment on it. Clinkophonist ( talk) 19:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the exact scope of this project? My question is prompted by having recently seen articles relating to such books as 3 Maccabees and the like. Would articles relating to these books, whose status as "biblical" is disputed by some, be included or not? I am operating on the assumption that 1 Enoch, which is considered canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, is included, but would those books which are no longer considered necessarily canonical by any Abrahamic religion, but are still, at least nominally, "Biblical", like the apocryphal book 3 Maccabees, be considered as within the scope of this project or not? John Carter ( talk) 15:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
If a significant religious group (like the Ethiopian Orthodox Church - which is the main form of Christianity in Ethiopia) believe that its part of the Bible then I would say that it is clearly within the scope of the project. The Goals section of the project page also includes Apocrypha within the project's scope. Clinkophonist ( talk) 12:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for placing the article Binding of Isaac within the scope of your WikiProject. About 3 weeks ago, I proposed to change the name of the article to "Sacrifice of Isaac" at Talk:Binding of Isaac#Name of this article, but so far haven't seen any response. I plan to go ahead and rename the article on March 20, 2008 unless there are objections. I invite you to visit the article and submit any comments you have on the matter. Thanks! -- Bryan H Bell ( talk) 18:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
... in Wikipedia. I would especially like to link to that specific bible passage. Is there a standard way to do this? Thanks. Maikel ( talk) 11:53, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
We are currently holding elections for coordinators to help ensure that directly project related activity, such as peer review, assessment, portal maintainance, and the like, are done for all the projects relating to Christianity. For what it's worth, as the "instigator" of the proposed coordinators, the purpose of having them is not to try to impose any sort of "discipline" on the various projects relating to Christianity, but just to ensure that things like assessment, peer review, portal maintainance, and other similar directly project-related functions get peformed for all the various projects relating to Christianity. If there are any individuals with this project who are already doing such activities for the project, and who want to take on the role more formally, I think nominations are being held open until the end of the elections themselves. And, for the purposes of this election, any member in good standing of any of the Christianity projects can either be nominated or express their votes at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Coordinators/Election 1. Thank you for your attention. John Carter ( talk) 00:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Please could someone take a look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Judah and Special:WhatLinksHere/Tamar and help fix links to disambiguation pages? I've tried, but don't know enough about the characters involved to do any more. Thanks, DuncanHill ( talk) 09:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed a move from Lazarus and Dives to Rich man and Lazarus. At the moment, there are only two participants in the discussion, so it would be helpful if some folk here could have a look at this, and join the discussion, so a consensus can be reached. StAnselm ( talk) 22:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I have created a new version of the project banner at User:John Carter/Bible. It can be found with all the drop-downs displayed at User talk:John Carter/Bible. I think that, if it were to be used, the talk pages of the various articles relevant to this project might be made substantially less cluttered. It is I hope understood that the simple fact of having variant options does not mean that they will necessarily all be used each time, however. Anyway, I would welcome input on whether we should perhaps alter the banner to include the additional specifications or not. John Carter ( talk) 17:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't Template:WikiProject Biblical Criticism be merged with Template:WikiProject Bible? Does the workgroup really need a separate banner? Richard001 ( talk) 08:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
The article Dating the Bible seems embarassingly inadequate.
For example,
In comparison, consider this series of articles from from The Straight Dope, despite its name quite a responsible and solidly researched column from a Chicago newspaper. Even at quite an informal and cursory level, the treatment still runs to five articles:
It seems to me that, at a minimum, Wikipedia should be aspiring to give at least the level of detail of these articles. Our current coverage, especially for the Hebrew Bible, falls very far short.
Can I suggest that the present Dating the Bible needs to be massively expanded? And that, better, each of the five questions above deserves its own separate article; with Dating the Bible changed to summary-style, to act as a central starting point and distributor to the other articles? Jheald ( talk) 07:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking for an article to describe this document which is mentioned in Deu 29:21. Trying to look up the term on Wikipedia only yields a Thelemic and a Mormon text which aren't it. __ meco ( talk) 16:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.
Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot ( Disable) 22:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd appreciate some more eyeballs at Torah, (which is also where Pentateuch and Five Books of Moses redirect).
Meieimatai ( talk · contribs) has been re-writing the article [15], on the basis apparently that it should be "essentially an article in the Jewish religion subject area". [16]
I think this is unacceptable. Wikipedia is supposed to be NPOV, covering all angles in an informational scholarly way. In particular, as is clear from the redirects, this is supposed to be the article on the first five books of the Bible for all perspectives, not just Judaism.
Particularly unacceptable, IMO, are
I don't know whether you would all agree with that take, but some more views would be very welcome. Jheald ( talk) 11:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
There is discussion on the talk page of the above article regarding how much weight should be given to traditional dating of Biblical works relative to modern academic conclusions at Talk:Dating the Bible#"but according to medieval sources...". All input is welcome. John Carter ( talk) 17:47, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Because this issue comes up often and can be a source of contention, I am proposing adding a paragraph to the existing WP:NPOV/FAQ#religion with a more careful and clearer explanation of language to use and how to present the subject to implement WP:NPOV in articles involving disputes between religious views and historians/scientists etc. Doubtless the proposal can be improved. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 22:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Currently, 834 articles are assigned to this project, of which 270, or 32.4%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place a template on your project page.
If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. -- B. Wolterding ( talk) 17:09, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed this template for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 July 30. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 14:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi! A request for comments has been made for this proposed guideline. Please comment at WT:Naming conventions (Hebrew)#Community RFC on proposed guideline. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 05:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Several editors hold the POV that the Bible is "mythology" and dispute that any other opinion could be valid. History clearly shows that this term has been used in an antagonistic and polemic sense to attack the believers in the Bible. I contend that it is not neutral for wikipedia to declare the Bible, or any part of it, as "mythology", simply because those who resent this rhetoric are significant in number, and that a more neutral compromise wording should be found to express what they are trying to say. The problem is that such a neutral compromise would defeat their purpose which is to have a POV article that is inflammatory to the millions who choose to believe the Bible is factual; therefore they have declared that the concerns of all those editors who disagree with them is invalid, and only their own POV counts. Even the Pope has written a book asking people to stop referring to the Bible as "mythology", so the disagreement and the existence of other POVs can easily be sourced. I am overwhelmed and fatigued trying to explain at Talk:Noah's Ark why it is inflammatory not neutral to declare any part of the Bible as "mythology" and would appreciate some fresh voices. Once they succeed at declaring one Biblical article "mythology", they will use exactly the same arguments to declare all other Biblical topics "mythology" no matter how one-sided this POV is. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 13:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Is there a policy regarding the rendering of the Tetragrammaton in articles? I feel that the use of "Yahweh" in Biblical quotes and references is POV, since this is not the common name found in English Bibles, and is only one possible transliteration, of which the correct one will probably never be known. In such cases, I usually use either " God of Israel" or "the LORD." Thoughts? -- Eliyak T· C 15:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
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Is the Koran a bible? Is the Book of Morman a part of a bible? How do you define the word bible within the scope of this project? Phil Burnstein ( talk) 09:20, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Bible with a capital B. This is not the french Wikipedia; Bible either means The Bible or is a very general term (including technical documentation about the character backgrounds in a soap opera). Try Wikipedia:WikiProject Religious texts. Clinkophonist ( talk) 01:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I just stumbled upon Synoptic Gospels, and I was shocked at the quality of the article. I was embarrassed. I completely cut away the last "paragraph" of the article because the author didn't use any punctuation, and I couldn't figure out what they were trying to say. Much of the rest of the stub is in bad shape, lacking references, poor phraseology, poor grammar, etc. I tried to fix a few run on sentences, but I finally decided to call in the experts in the field for a major overhaul. So I come to you, WikiProject Bible, and present to you an article in your area in great need of some help. Gentgeen ( talk) 13:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Please review the discussion here
and comment on whether the page should be moved back to article space. Thanks. - Ac44ck ( talk) 21:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Members of this project may be interested in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Roman numerals in Bible citation.
I've made this page, a sourced analysis of Mt 10:16-23, and believe it to be under the scope of this wikiproject. If members agree, please be so kind as to add it to your wikiproject. Thanks! Carl.bunderson ( talk) 20:29, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking of creating lists of individuals and groups (tribes, nations, etc.) mentioned in each book of the Bible. I would start with Genesis and move through the rest of the Bible over time (unless other people decided to complete lists for other books of the Bible, in which case I could skip them), at least for the books this makes sense for. I know there is already a list of Biblical names but I think creating a list for each book of the Bible is a good idea because some people may find a list for each book more useful that the vast alphabetically-organized list that already exists. Each book of the Bible can be considered a unique literary work so a list for each book makes sense. The list of Biblical names can be regarded as a comprehensive 'master list' while each new list can be considered a more manageable 'sub-list.' The list of Biblical names is also more general than the lists I am thinking of making because it covers every noun listed in the Bible (i.e. names of persons, places, things, etc.). A person may instead want a more manageable and specific list such as 'tribes mentioned in Exodus' or 'individuals mentioned in Joshua' instead and this is where the shorter and more specific lists come in. I would also include more information on each name than the big list provides (i.e. relation to other persons, tribal or national affiliation, chapters and verses they appear in, etc.), although I would be aiming for brevity rather than completeness (which is what an article is for). I would make each list as comprehensive as possible. I was also thinking of making lists of places named in each book as well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? -- Schnurrbart ( talk) 05:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
You do realise how absolutely huge that list will be?
And how controversial - for example, Judges 18:30 - is that ....Manasseh... or ...Moses.... You might find most translations give 'Manasseh', but these derive from the 'MNShSh' in the Masoretic text, where the N is very unusually inserted (with a caret), suggesting to scholars that it originally read 'MShSh', which is Moses. So is that Manasseh some new individual, to be added to your list, or is it Moses who definitely is listed as having a 'Gershom' as a son.
Is 'Reuel' another name for 'Jethro', itself being another name for 'Hobab', who may have a father named 'Reuel' , or are these actually different people in some way?
Jehoiachin (YH+YH+ChN), Jeconiah (YH+ChN+YH), or Coniah (ChN+YH)?
What about Ishbaal ('man of baal') - do you list it as that (which appears in some places in the Bible) or as the POV-but-biblical 'Ishbosheth' ('man of the shameful one'), which appears in physically earlier places?
Is Jesus' step-paternal grandfather to be named 'Jacob' or 'Heli' or are they different people entirely?
Clinkophonist ( talk) 01:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been looking around for some manual of style for Bible quotations and articles about Bible verses. I've found the following:
One of the main aspects that I would like standardised is which translation should be preferred for quotations. Obviously if there is a reason to quote a specific translation, different translations should be used. However we should have a project page which clearly indicates which is preferred for various situations, even if it means we need to define our differences in a WP:ENGVAR-like fashion. i.e. Topics about Judaism may be better served by using a preferred translation like JPS1917, and Christian topics may be better served by using a preferred translation like KJV or ASV.
One important issue that is not religious in nature is the use of quotations from copyrighted translations, which should be minimised, and specifically the UK copyright of the KJV.
With regards to articles about bible verses, I am a big fan of removing Wikipedia content which is within scope of Wikisource unless it is critically discussed on the Wikipedia article (i.e. removing the full text of long poems). In that vein, most Wikipedia articles about bible verses contain a section with many different translations. Wikisource has been slowly growing a complete interlinear bible (e.g. s:Bible/Obadiah/1/1) and I believe it would be beneficial to use this Wikisource resource rather than having many translations on the Wikipedia article. John Vandenberg ( chat) 04:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
If the version is pertinent to the interpretation, in the context of the article's reference to the text, then give one example of each pertinent variation. For example, on an article about homosexuality and leviticus 18/21, you have:
All of which are quite different, and range from very broad (all homosexuality is a detestable sin) to very narrow (if you're married [to a woman] and want to have gay sex, don't do it in your wife's bed, that's just sick). I picked this particular passage precisely because its one of those with the widest variation in translations.
Here's another - part of Isaiah 34:14:
Some mention Lilith, a demon which Jewish legend considers to be Adam's first wife (before Eve), while others don't mention it.
Essentially you'd have to show a fair sample of the translations, rather than just picking the one that suits your opinion best. If the article is talking about a specific occasion where one translation has an issue (eg. ' thou shalt commit adultery'), then just quote that, but if its about a translation controversy (or on a subject where the translation is controversial) - eg. 'presbyter' verses 'priest', then list all significant variations (only one translation each would be necessary).
And don't limit this to just variations between modern English Translations. Other languages translations may have significant variations too (the difference being obscured by the fact they are in other languages). And even though most modern translations are based on the masoretic text, you should still consider the Septuagint/Syriac Peshitta/ Samaritan version/ Dead Sea scrolls/ Hexapla texts/etc. if these have a significant difference to the Masoretic text.
Basically, don't quote if you don't have to. And if you need to refer to a verse, use the Bibleverse template, rather than linking to one particular version. Clinkophonist ( talk) 00:59, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
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Any comments regarding the structure and function of Christianity related material are welcome at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/General Forum#Project organization. Be prepared for some rather lengthy comments, though. There is a lot of material to cover there. John Carter ( talk) 17:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 08:52, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Noah's Ark for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. -- Vassyana ( talk) 15:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I would like to create category called Category:Enoch in order to re-organize the material in the Enoch series. Enoch is a very mysterious character that would still need to be de-mythologized for the sake of ancient and modern studies in religion. Is there anywhere I can propose or discuss the creation of this category ? ADM ( talk) 20:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
This is an open call for anyone interesting in building up the collection of individual Psalms articles. There's a lot of work to be done but I think every one is notable for their own article. See template here if you're interested. - Epson291 ( talk) 07:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Is the Tree of Life Acacia, specifically the Shittah-tree, or Acacia seyal? The Spiritual use of cannabis states "Elders of the modern religious movement known as the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church consider cannabis to be the eucharist,[28] claiming it as an oral tradition from Ethiopia dating back to the time of Christ.[29] Like the Rastafari, some modern Gnostic Christian sects have asserted that cannabis is the Tree of Life.[30]" After reading the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church webpage that links as reference number 28, I don't think I will change from my current form of Christianity, but have become etomologicaly (I'll officially take credit for that word if it doesn't already exist) confused. Since I don't speak read and write all of the languages in question, and there would be serious doubts of anyone speaking all of the languages (with knowledge of idioms and so forth), this forum seems to be a great way to pool that knowledge. Tree of Life (Judeo-Christian) is a great article on the subject, but modern Christianity is multifaceted. It would be nice to be able to reference all the various points of view on this topic. Could this be an aspect of the descendants of Japheth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knosisophile ( talk • contribs) 23:54, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
I want everyone to note that we weren't trying to step on anyone's toes here. Some of the people at the WikiProject Christianity, including me, have come to the conclusion that it might make things a bit easier for us, with our roughly 30,000 articles, to have navigation boxes to link some of the articles which most directly link to the topics which are of highest importance to our project. This includes some biblical material. I want everyone to know that we are not seeking to lay some sort of "claim" on the material. All the templates, including the Biblical ones, that currently exist can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Core topics work group/Templates. Anyone who would wish to make any comments or suggestions on any of them is free to do so there. And, yes, most of the ones I've recently created aren't real pretty yet. I figured I'd wait till we knew what all was in them before I tried to make them more appealing. John Carter ( talk) 22:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Just to say I've created an article called The Children's Bible Story Book which I did a while ago, and it has not been rated by the WikiProject. I think it should be. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 20:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I have created the article Textual variants in the New Testament. If someone wants to help, please edit. Leszek Jańczuk ( talk) 15:21, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I am attempting to help make it easier for all the various portals which relate to Christian subjects do not disproportionately use certain articles relevant to their subject and in the process find other good articles relevant to the subject not being used as often as they could. Toward that purpose, I have started the page User:John Carter/Christianity portals. I realize that this portal listed above is not exclusively related to Christianity, and acknowledge that. However, because the subject material is related to a fairly large extent, it makes sense to have it included anyway. If anyone here is involved in the upkeep of the above portal, please feel free to look at the page above and offer any input you see fit. Thank you. John Carter ( talk) 17:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I want to inform the community that I have done a GA Reassessment of Isaac and found the article lacking. Not very much will need to be done but enough that I could not keep it GA without some effort. I am notifying all interested projects that I have held this article for one week pending editing. The review can be found here. If you have any questions please feel free to contact my talk page. H1nkles ( talk) 23:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Just to point out, the Children's Bible Story Book article needs ratings from this wikiproject. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.
We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.
If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 22:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I have done the GA Reassessment of Ishmael as part of the GA Sweeps project. I have found a few items that concern me about the article. My review can be found here. I have held the article for a week and I am notifying all the interested projects in the hope that work can be done to keep it at GA. Please contact me at my talk page if you have any questions. H1nkles ( talk) 16:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks
Arlen22 (
talk) 19:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)Arlen22
Got it. #~~~~
It will look like this.
Arlen22 (
talk) 20:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There's a flag saying it needs an expert edit. I have good claim to be an expert on the subject, so i did a pretty complete edit, added a bunch of references, etc. What else should be done (if anything) in order to remove the flag, and hopefully get the article recategorized as past "Start" level?
Thanks!
Sderose ( talk) 03:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedians at
Talk:Roman Catholic Church are discussing the merits of changing the article name as such.
Roman Catholic Church →
Catholic
Church. Please share your opinions
there. --
Carlaude
talk 12:02, 13 June 2009 (UTC)