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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
I have the Yugo up for peer review, and I would like to see people contribute to it. It is here Karrmann 00:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
On the 22 June a large piece of text has been added to the Kit car article by 139.11.40.132. This appears to be a "translation" of the German Wikipedia entry. The trouble is it is not a good translation and is very hard to understand. I am not sure what to do about it. I seems we have several options:
Any ideas? Malcolma 08:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, as you can see I have archived the past 50 disucssion points. Please let me know if there is a probelm. I have one question though, I actually planned to archive the "AMC Matador progeny?" as well, due to the extensive length of that discussion, but did not want to do so without first asking as that discussion took place quite recently. Thank you. Best Regards, Signature brendel 18:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Hate to be the dissenter (again), but I think archiving every 50 sections is a nice even divisor, and it follows the previous archives too. Archiving 53 just because one of the last ones was bigger than average seems... odd. The Matador debate does take up a disproportionate amount of space just now, because it's on a page with about 4-5 other sections, but after a few weeks there'll be 20+ discussions and it'll look fine. Regards, DeLarge 20:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC) (resident devil's advocate)
Yes, your right, it is a bit odd, but only a little bit. Usually an archive is created for every 50 discussion, in this case it was 53. I don not think, however, that it is so bad that one of the archives has 53 discussions while the others have 50. Regards, Signature brendel 21:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
If you look at the history of the article, I've done a lot of work to it over the past three months, and modesty aside, improved it greatly over previous versions.
Now, a new user made some edits to this article yesterday, which (I think) slightly waters down the desription of the company's recent troubles. However, rather than simply doing a rude revert, I've posted comments on the article's talk page inviting a response. However, I've put so much into the article recently (as you can see from the history page since April '06) that I'm worried about "taking ownership", so I'd appreciate if more objective editors than myself could look over it (and the discussion) and give feedback.
EDIT - actually, while you're there, I've been considering submitting the article for peer review, with an idea to getting it GA status. If you want to give it an informal assessment while you're there, I'd be grateful.
Regards, -- DeLarge 09:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, well, I guess that's a consensus. I actually didn't like the word initially myself either, but the more I researched while preparing the article, the more accurate it seemed - I honestly couldn't find a single redeeming feature of the deal for DCX's shareholders, and used it only after long consideration. Still, as I'm the only pro-debacle voice, I'll retract my comments and strike through them on the MMC talk page (except for the one on "mass layoffs" anyway). -- DeLarge 15:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to the support from the participating members of WikiProject Automobiles during both phases of the peer review (special big thanks to DeLarge), the Talbot Tagora article has been significantly improved and is now nominated as a Featured Article Candidate. You can access it's nomination page directly here - all members of the WikiProject who have NOT been involved in the development of the article are eligible to express their views on whether it meets the Featured Article criteria there! If you would find time to review it, I would be most grateful. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 20:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I am happy to announce to you that today Raul, the Featured Article Director, found the Talbot Tagora worthy of the coveted little star! So, we now have another Featured Article within our WikiProject, which I believe comes in a very timely moment as two others are in danger of getting delisted.
I would like to thank all Members of this WikiProject who have helped this article achieve FA status, be it by reviewing it, tweaking some minor bits, helping procure the elusive free images, and obviously those who have added huge chunks of content and revamped the article thoroughly so that objections raised during FAC could be alleviated.
So, now if we want to boost the profile of automotive content at Wikipedia, we can lobby for the Tagora to become Wikipedia:Today's featured article and to be featured in Template:Did you know!
Thanks again everybody! Bravada, talk - 11:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
The article Passenger vehicles in the United States has now evolved into a long and comprehensive article and would really a appreciate a peer review in order to improve the article. Thank you. Best Regards, Signature brendel 23:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
In case you don't know who he is, he registered as User:Take Me Higher and uploaded possibly hundreds of poorly self made pictures of poorly exposed cars from the back. We have tried to talk to him, and give him advice on how to imporve his pictures. He has ignored us every time, and continued to upload bad pictures. Re filed a request for comment for him, which he never replied to, or I don't think he even viewed. He posts regularly on his talk page, using it as a blog sometimes, but he would never respond to our comments about his images, showing that he was flat out ignoring us. It got to the point where tons of people were leaving him comments about his pictures, and to stop, so he created an account called User:Bull-Doser so that he wouldn't hear from us everyday about his pictures. This failed, as when Don noticed a picture of a poorly exposed car from the back, and noticed he created a new username, making Bull-Doser a sockpuppet. Now, he is taking poorly done pictures of cars like he always did, which are badly cropped, or taken from the back of the car in the bright sun, meaning the sun is glaring in the picture. He now takes these images and places them as the head image to many articles, compromising the integrity of them. example We have left numerous warnings on his talk page, because his account change was seen as the last straw. He has continued to ignore these warnings, and many people are very pissed at his arrogance. I have even threatened to file a vandalism in progress report, which I am very close to doing. I later noticed that he joined this project. So if he wants to be a part of this project to improve automobile articles, then the bad pictures have to come to a stop. His bad pics and his arrogance has us all annoyed, and I am very close to filing a vandalism in progress report on him if I have to go to that extreme measures to get him to stop. We have to do something about him. We have two choices: He can stop being so arrogent and respond to us, and we can work together to improve his pictures, or he can continue to be the way he is, and we can file a vandalism in progress report against him, get admins involved in warning him, and trying to get him to improve his pics, and if he acts the way he does now, he would end up getting blocked for a day or two to show how our tolerance with his poor pics and his arrogance has come to an end. It's his choice. All I know is that we have reached the end of our rope with tolerating his poor pictures and his arrogence, and a few members I know would porbably be all for using force to stop the pictures, but I want to give him the benefit of a doubt, and give him ONE more chance to stop being so arrogent, talk and work this out, before we use force. Karrmann 16:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
This issue has come up a couple of times recently ( AMC Matador and Talbot Tagora): Is a low resolution scan of a photo from a car brochure or advert acceptable as 'Fair use' for the image in the Infobox of a car article?
I maintain that it is almost never legal in that situation. The fair use copyright tag says:
"It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of promotional material * to illustrate the work or product in question; * in the absence of free images that could serve such a purpose; * on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement."
...we fail the second clause "in the absence of free images that could serve such a purpose". Is it really impossible (or even difficult) to obtain photographs under an open license? No, it isn't. On AMC Matador, Mini and Mini Moke, I have done the following: Go to eBay. Search eBay motors for someone selling that car. Look at the photos. Do a 'Mail the seller' and ask really nicely whether it would be possible to use one of his photos to illustrate an article on it in Wikipedia. In all three cases, the very first person I asked was very happy to provide more images than I needed under any license I stipulated and they each remarked that they were honored to be featured!. That was using eBay - if I'd gone to an enthusiasts club or searched in Google images or something like that I think it would have been just as easy. If the first person I asked had refused, I bet the second, third or fourth would have said yes. Given that evidence, there is absolutely no way to claim that using brochure scans is fair use...except perhaps for cars that are so unbelivably rare that no examples still exist or something.
Using brochure scans is both illegal and lazy - 10 minutes searching and an email to the right person is all it takes in the majority of cases. If all else fails - and if you've been trying every available avenue for weeks or months and not turned up any kind of photo of the car - then, maybe we can accept fair use. Breach of copyright is illegal and can get Wikipedia *and* the person who posts the image into deep, deep trouble.
SteveBaker 03:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Wow! I spread the word among my fellow [www.gminsidenews.com GMInsideNews] members, one of whom helped spread the word further, and I am getting literally showered with pics - now I need to find time to deal with them all, remove license plate and stuff. The said fellow member, Ifcar, also provided me with links to forum postings of minitaures of his car show pics. As they are car show pics, they sometimes contain people and overall they are of varying quality. We've agreed that I will ask you which ones you think are Wikipedia-appropriate and then I will ask him for higher-res versions. So, if you can spare a moment, please see those pictures and discuss which ones are OK to be used on Wikipedia. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 22:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I am glad to report I am making some progress on my part, I have already uploaded some of the images I received, although they were actually quite random and unrelated to what I have chosen as my first goal during this drive - furnish all Chrysler Europe cars' articles with nice free photos. Of particular urgency is the Talbot Tagora article - it is a FAC now and, as Steve noted, it cannot become an FA without a free picture. With relation to that, I would like to ask native English and non-native, just any French speakers to help me with those two issues:
I cannot understand why you cannot use official photos - they were issued for press use, or are you making money out of using them, in which case I can understand? If you could explain what your organisation is designed for, I could ask people in our club if they have suitable photos to spare. Alternatively, you could use illustrations from adverts and brochues - there are plenty available at autojumbles and ebay.
Thanks a lot! Bravada, talk - 23:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd be happy to email David Chapman for you - could you send me his email address (better not post it here 'cos he might like getting spammed - send it to me at sjbaker1-at-airmail-dot-net SteveBaker 20:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I know we've been over this before, at least kind of, but there has been a dispute over Bravada adding the {{Speculation}} template to the Lincoln MkS article. Personally I think the article is fine and complies w/ the current standards I perceive to exsist for concept vehicle articles. I would like however to hear your opinion on the issue, whether or not you think the Lincoln MKS article is a good example of a concept vehicle article. If you could spare a minute I would really appreciate it. Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 22:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we need to standardise on one thing: should we be using litres or cc or cm^3 when stating the engine capacities? From what I know, many articles use litres, but cc is still an official standard in many countries, while cm^3 is a more SI-correct unit. Ariedartin JECJY 13:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that a lot of articles have "In pop culture" sections and such that list all the movies, TV shows or even music videos that a car appeared in. I think these sections aren't really that notable, except in the case of certain cars (like the Ford Pinto or Yugo, for example). Should these sections be removed, or should they be kept? -- ApolloBoy 22:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm inclined to say "no," based on their MSRPs, competitors and Consumer Guide classifications. I might consider the Chrysler 300 to be an entry-level luxury sedan, but that's the only model, and even that's a stretch. I just find it silly to put Chryslers in the same category as BMWs and Jaguars.
Whenever anyone removes the category "Luxury vehicles" from the bottom of a Chrysler page (see Chrysler LHS), one particular user reverts it with little or no explanation. This user is an admitted Chrysler owner and therefore, I believe, somewhat biased.
So please, offer your input. Do you think Chrysler models should be tagged as luxury vehicles? And can anything be done? Jagvar 21:22, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
What is considered a luxury car in one market may be a minimally acceptable one in another. The term is just too vague. I don't think it belongs here. SteveBaker 04:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's the interesting thing. When I think of luxury cars, I normally think of brands like Audi, Bugatti, Rolls-Royce, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and the like. If you can try and visualize Volkswagen's brand lineup alongside DCX's, then I could say that SEAT is VW's Dodge, Skoda is what Plymouth could've been, followed by VW (comparable with Chrysler) and then Audi (comparable with Mercedes-Benz), and so forth. All this jibber-jabber is insane! How about if we just calm down and accept that a category like luxury cars is purely subjective based on one person's own opinion? - Daniel Blanchette 16:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Apollo Boy has stated that Chrysler "Has not competed with the likes of Cadillac and Lincoln." So categorizing Chrysler (the marque) as luxury is incorrect. Some Chrysler models such as Chrylser 300C are luxury models, and so may have been the LHS Series. It is okay to tag those articles, dealing with those particular vehicles as luxo cars. Regards, Signature brendel 00:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Glossaries like Automotive design terminology / Car body style... a good or bad idea? Cons: Somewhat unencyclopdic. May be more suited to wiktionary or others. Pros: It's a home where semi-notable perma-stubs can be merged to. Lists dicdefs organized by topic (eg. "break = station wagon" would be largely ignored if it was grouped with other meanings of " break" on wiktionary) -- Interiot 13:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I realize that I have asked before, but I would still greatly appreciate your input on the Passenger vehicles in the United States! The article is a current GA nominee and is in need of a peer review- this could be another FA for this project. Please, if you can spare a few minutes, your input would be greatly appreciated. Signature brendel 16:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Bull-Doser: Car photographer (Free Use)
Bavaria: ConsumerGuide guy (Fair Use)
ApolloBoy: Both ConsumerGuide & photographer (Fair & Free Use)
In addition to photographing cars, I use ConsumerGuide for non- Canadian cars.
Bull-Doser 03:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Mercedes-Benz 450SEL 6.9 is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 21:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Volkswagen Type 2 is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality.
Sorry to hit you with two at once: we really need help :-) Sandy 22:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
The Shadow only replaced the Charger & Omni. The Spirit replaced the Aries & Lancer. The Dynasty replaced the 600 & Diplomat. Even the LeBaron was a rebadged Aries, and after 1990 became a rebadged Spirit. And the pre-1988 New Yorker was based on the 600, and the post-1989 New Yorker became a Dynasty. Because the Shadow was a hatchback, it did NOT replace the Aries sedan. It replaced the Charger & Omni as the "hatchback" Dodge.
Bull-Doser 17:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
1989 Dodge Omni: $1,275 - $1,450
1989 Dodge Colt: $1,350 - $1,875
1989 Dodge Shadow: $1,275 - $1,475
1988 Dodge 600: $1,125 - $1,350
1989 Dodge Spirit: $1,225 - $1,650
1988 Dodge Aries: $1,100 - $1,225
1988 Dodge Lancer: $1,125 - $1,350
1989 Dodge Diplomat: $1,300 - $1,475
1989 Dodge Dynasty: $1,400 - $1,750 -- Bull-Doser 16:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
As you might have noticed, the Anniversaries section of the Portal:Cars is still missing entries for some dates, which is pretty embarassing, I believe. I have found out that the History Channel site has a section that can be very helpful with filling in the blanks [3]. I have already started taking blatant advantage of it, and I guess I am done with the first half of the year. If somebody could take care of the rest of the year, or perhaps just individual months, it would be great. It doesn't require much typing, but is quite repetitive... :( Bravada, talk - 18:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC) PS. Oh, and don't forget to voice you opinion on the Talbot Tagora's Featured Article Nomination!
Although IFCAR is from the United States, I'm Canadian! IFCAR is beginning to upload images like ME! Bull-Doser 01:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I have recently noted that unlike articles concerning vehicles made by other sbusidaries, the Nissan articles feature Nissan as the sole manufacturer and not Renault-Nissan. As far as I know Renault owns the controling share of Nissan, yet I do not know if it has officially become a Renault subsidary. Nonetheless I think we should list Renault-Nissan as manufacrturer of Nissan vehicles, just like we list Daimler-Chryler as the manufacturer for Damiler-Chrysler vehicles. Best Regards, Signature brendel 17:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that there are many tasks left unanswered in the Ford Taurus' task page. I really want to get this article featured, so I am asking you to give your all to this article. Karrmann 18:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
The HHR slots in length between the Aveo and the Cobalt, just like what the Prizm was, slotting in length between the Metro and the Cavalier. The HHR is more expensive than the Cobalt, just like back then, when the Prizm was priced above the Cavalier. Just like HHR replaces Cavalier, the Caliber replaces the Dodge Neon.
Bull-Doser 18:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
All the time I had been on WP, I had understood that the name of the automobile in the country of origin was the least ambiguous way to refer to a model, something discussed on Archive Page 1. This had been the case prior to this discussion and appeared to have reached a consensus.
I now notice, however, that some pages have been altered to reflect an export country's viewpoint. I note Hyundai Elantra and Hyundai Avante. Have the rules changed, or was the person who shifted the Avante's data to the Elantra page unaware of this convention? —Stombs 05:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I've revised pages for the Toyota Tundra (adding the double cab version) and the Hyundai Santa Fe (adding the 2005- 2006 versions and the 2007 version that's out now). All images came from the Wikimedia Commons.-- Bull-Doser 17:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the Pathfinder slots below the Murano in the lineup, it is rumoured the Pathfinder will use Nissan's new D platform (used by the 2007-present Altima) and continue to slot below the Maxima-based Murano in the lineup. Still, the Pathfinder would continue to be built in Tennessee.-- Bull-Doser 00:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
1985-
1988 (Before
Geo):
Chevrolet Sprint Vs.
Ford Escort (Or
Festiva)
Chevrolet Spectrum Vs. Ford Escort
Chevrolet Chevette Vs. Ford Escort
Chevrolet Nova Vs.
Ford Tempo
Chevrolet Cavalier Vs. Ford Tempo
Chevrolet Corsica (
1987-88) Vs. Ford Tempo (Or Taurus)
Chevrolet Celebrity Vs.
Ford Taurus
Chevrolet Caprice Vs.
Ford LTD Crown Victoria
1989-
1997 (The Geo Era):
Geo Metro Vs. Ford Festiva/
Aspire
Geo Spectrum/
Prizm Vs. Ford Escort
Chevrolet Cavalier Vs. Ford Tempo (Note the second-generation Cavalier was longer in length than the Tempo. I heard a
1991
GM Canada commercial had a 1991 Cavalier &
Sunbird next to a Ford Tempo)
Chevrolet Corsica Vs. Ford Tempo (Corsica & Tempo were compacts)
Chevrolet Lumina Vs. Ford Taurus
Chevrolet Caprice/
Impala Vs.
Ford Crown Victoria
To squeeze this,
GM &
Ford's rivals were:
Mainstream:
Chevrolet/Geo/
GMC/
Saturn - Ford
Near Luxury:
Oldsmobile/
Pontiac -
Mercury
Luxury:
Buick/
Cadillac -
Lincoln
Buick was never really on Cadillac's and Lincoln's level. Signature brendel 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Now:
Mainstream: Chevrolet/GMC/Pontiac/Saturn - Ford
Near Luxury: Buick - Mercury
Luxury: Cadillac - Lincoln/
Jaguar
Luxury:
Saab -
Volvo --
Bull-Doser
02:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Correct! Signature brendel 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay are you asking a question? If so let me try and answer it. The "Now" section is correct! The section before- Buick was never really on the same level as Cadillac and Lincoln, but rather competed w/ Mercury. Signature brendel 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
On my own website, I've been collecting photos of the BMW MINI in every possible paint scheme colour (there are a LOT because of contrasting roof options). I get a bunch of hits - mostly (I think) from people thinking about buying the car and wondering what colour to pick - but I don't particularly need the load on my home web server and serving up the page from a wrong-direction-DSL line is S-L-O-W.
So the question is - would this be seen as an appropriate thing to transfer into a Wikipedia gallery? If so, should it be a part of the MINI (BMW) page or should I start a "List of every possible MINI colour]] page?
The current page is here: [4]
PS. Oh, and of course it would be only natural for WP articles to link to this Wiki much like they link to Wiktionary or Commons today.
Okay. I've looked at the length of the Mazda CX-9, and it's about 198 inches (about longer than a 4Runner). The CX-7 is a mid-size competing with Highlander, Pathfinder or Pilot, the CX-9 is another mid-size competing with 4Runner, Explorer or Murano. The Murano, of course, slots above the Pathfinder. The CX-7 is identical in length to a Highlander or 2007 Santa Fe. Both CX-7 & CX-9 are based off the CD3. -- Bull-Doser 18:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
IFCAR - Only uploads free images
Bull-Doser - Uploads free & fair images
Bavaria - Only uploads fair images
And the winner is? Stay tuned! -- Bull-Doser 20:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused as to why the Ford Ranger has about five generations, when in fact there were only two. One user I talked to said that there were enough differences between 1983-1988 and 1989-1992 Rangers to constitute two generations, when in fact most of the body panels between the two are exactly the same and the only major differences were the front fascia and interior. What do you guys think? Should there only be two generations or five? -- ApolloBoy 20:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu has been trying to add the Chevrolet Chevette as one of the predecessors of the Chevrolet Cavalier. I really don't think the Cavalier replaced the Chevette, as the two were aimed at different markets and even overlapped for 5 years. However, he refuses to listen to me, and keeps adding it back in, using a page from Edmunds which he takes out of context. What does everyone else say? -- ApolloBoy 00:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Just trying to get clarification here: "Cavalier also replace the European Chevette." You're talking about the Vauxhall Chevette/ Opel Kadett and the Vauxhall Cavalier/ Opel Ascona? -- DeLarge 08:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I see this WikiProject doesn't have a project notice template. Please see Wikipedia:Template_messages/Talk_namespace#WikiProject notices. One article, GMC Denali, has the generic template on its talk page right now. Please create the project notice template and replace that generic template with it. -- Geopgeop 14:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
The TSX was introduced in 2004 to replace the CL coupe, and both were based on the Honda Accord. Acura dropped the Integra sedan from the lineup in 1997, and it was replaced in Canada by the Acura EL. Both cars were based on the Civic. With Acura phasing out the RSX after 2006, a TSX coupe will replace it. As what I saw on MSN Autos, the Integra didn't have a sedan in 1997. -- Bull-Doser 20:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
There are some major errors here that are nearly impossible to fix because of policing.
It is claimed that the heir to the Aries is not the nearly identical Dodge Spirit in size, layout and room, but the much smaller Omini replacement, the Dodge Shadow. I tried fixing it once, but it came back, and even ApolloBoy indicated he though that was broken at one point in time. Then I noticed somebody jumping all over Bulldozer for the same thing. I found Allpar, a parts site, and a consumer buyers site all saying Spirit and the EEK was the replacement, but all I get is yelled at, told that none of the sources is valid, and get reverted, along with anything else I might have said.
Similarly, several auto sites say the Chevy import fighters started with Covair, then Vega / Monza, Chevette, Cavalier, then Cobalt. However the way the pages have been connected on WP is Vega to Monza / Chevette (so far so good), but then Chevette->Spectrum/Sprint (what?) and Monza-> Cavalier, even though the Monza was a tiny niche coupe, and the Cavalier was a best seller with notchback, hatchbck, sedan and wagon bodies. I can't even put this sequence on the Corvair page without getting spit out by these same editors. Ditto a hit song about the Chevette, or any attempt to mention the existence of any replica of a car. It's no democracy, I've entered a little kingdom where, rather than a place where anybody can write anything, nothing happens unless it coforms to some gigantic unwritten rule book of things that a secretly allowed or unallowed, and the only way to find out is to put in in and see what happens. Any attempt to link the Chevette to the Cavalier is met by reverts from 3 different editors, and more bad feelings and warnings that none of the six sources is valid since all are less than perfect, and only perfect citations are acceptable to replace what appears to be uncited guesses based on original research, and being told that I don't know the way things are suppoosed to work, which is evidently whatever a gang of editors want to work, since they have no directly supporting or contradicting primary sources and they dismiss six different primary sources.
A web search for supporting sources shows only one place where the shadow replaces the Aries, and the Cavalier does not replace the Chevette -- the Wikipedia.
As a man of principal and character, do you recommend
Fight for the right thing, no matter how many editors complain or threaten or revert, stick to posting correct and cited information and replaced uncited information
Or do you recommend - back off and go where I am not contested
Is there anybody else out there who objects to the behavior of these
auto editors, or am I the only one having problems?? --
matador300
17:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there such a list? If not there should be. ;) I mean I see tons of things that I could photograph, but a lot of times they already have a better example. I would just love a list so that I could look for specific things. ren0 talk 20:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu is writing way too much POV, and his writing is 100% inapproiate for a public encylopedia. Just read List of successful automobiles, which he contributed significately too. It sounds like Jeremy Clarkson wrote it! What do you think we should do? Karrmann 15:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, Wairthu, if everyone is so hostile towards you, then why ar you persoanlly attacking members on your userpage? Karrmann 19:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
First off a G20 would compete with a C-Class. An I30/I35 would compete with an E-Class, while a Q45 would compete with an S-Class. Lexus's lineup winded to four sedans in 2001 by adding the IS that slots below the ES, and Mercedes-Benz winded up to four in 2005 by adding the CLS-Class to slot between the E-Class & S-Class. I35 heavily competed with the TL & ES, but also the GS, which was shorter than the I35 & ES. Q45's competitor is the LS, but the I30/I35 was Infiniti's only midsize until the M45 arrived in 2003. Now the M is Infiniti's only midsize (even though it includes 35 & 45). An I35 was cheaper than an E-Class or 5 Series, but was priced similarly to a Q45. Q45 almost competed with the GS & E-Class. Q45 competed with Acura RL, Lexus LS & Mercedes-Benz S-Class before the M45 arrived. The I35 did not quite rival the C-Class or 3-Series, because they were rivals of the G20. Infiniti's always had 3 sedans (except for 1996, 2003 & 2004). -- Bull-Doser 04:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I'll have to add that to my list of despicable Wikipedia tactics. Scheinwerfermann and 93JC have been guilty of policing an incomplete and unverifiable POV, and deleting new information cited from freaking AUTOMOTIVE REFERENCE BOOKS for pete's sake. I thought the other guy was the only one who denied every reference up to and including Aviation Week and Janes, now over here the rule is that a website by Consumer Guide, and 2 15LB reference books are wrong. I figured out the deal is that Spirit/Acclaim were intended to replace Aries/Reliant as any dummy might guess by looking at the cars without resorting to going to price list and concluding the wildly different Sundance and Shadow which were designed to replace the Omni were also originally designed to replace the K-cars. (Does anybody besides MrS seriously believe this??) The internal document is a) not put into a proper citation, it was put into the talk page, that's an error for those of you who think Scheinwerfermann is infallible b) not publically available in any library or website since it was intended only for dealers c) only states that on introduction Shadow was to replace Aries, which it could not since Aries was not canned until mid-season, while 600 was already discontinued. Since these sources do NOT conflict except over the minor detail as to whether Shadow replaced Aries immediatey, or after Aries was retired, there is no reason to DELETE (that's vandalism) information since it is a) not contradictory and b) even if allpar, partstrain, a consumer digest 10 lb book and website, and the standard catalog chrysler's professional editors are wrong, and Sch., an amatuer is right, it is the obligation of Sch. to document what everybody else thinks rather than DELETE this new information. Am I right? I'm the one standing up to bullying behavior, so why is it that I'm the one being put up on trial for putting up verifiable information? It is also NEVER vandalism to put up cited edits in good faith, so that's ERROR NO. 2. Is this sort of stuff condoned over here? If the author of the Standard Chrysler catalog tried to correct this error, should he have to don a helmet and flak jacket and a list of 300 sources to do it?? -- matador300 14:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Proper conduct would be
Anybody disagree with these principles of civil conduct? -- matador300 15:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
So, I looked again on MSN Autos, and the
Integra DID have a
sedan in its final year of production. Now, let's start this
Acura vs.
Infiniti vs.
Lexus vs.
Mercedes-Benz info.
Pre-
2001:
Integra Vs.
G20 Vs.
ES Vs.
C-Class
TL Vs.
I30 Vs.
GS Vs.
E-Class
RL Vs.
Q45 Vs.
LS Vs.
S-Class
2005-Present:
TSX Vs.
G35 Vs.
IS Vs. C-Class
TL Vs.
M35 Vs. ES Vs. E-Class
RL Vs. M45 Vs. GS Vs.
CLS-Class
Q45 Vs. LS Vs. S-Class
Note the Acura RL was downsized in length after 2005 to compete with mid-priced sedans. As we all know, the RL is a fullsize. -- Bull-Doser 00:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Ford is doing much worse than GM in revenue. GM is still profitable today, despite being the largest car company in the world. I like GM over Ford. One of the only Ford cars I like are the Lincolns and the Ford Fusion. I wrote a Way Forward-related article on the Ford Crown Victoria page. Even GM's restructuring plan killed Oldsmobile. -- Bull-Doser 00:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
BLACKLISTED LINK REMOVED
I debuted this! -- Bull-Doser 22:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
When I joined Wikipedia a year and a half ago, there was a problem with the automotive pages - there just weren't enough pictures to illustrate the articles. Now, however, I feel that we have the opposite problem - there are far too many! I can understand having one picture of each generation of a car (or at the most, two, if they display the car at different angles), but too many articles are just crammed with photo after photo of the same cars. I don't feel this adds to an article. On the contrary, I feel that all these photos crowd the text and distract from the content of the article. For example, do we really need 17 photos of the Toyota Camry or 14 photos of the Nissan Maxima? This site is becoming more like a WebShots album than an encyclopedia. I'd love to know what your thoughts are. Jagvar 14:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I'll take this chance to mention that the more technical side actually needs more photos, and if anyone wants to take a picture of their beauty, the following articles have no pictures and could use one: power window, power door locks, power seat, coilover, t-top, filter (oil), fender (automobile), brake, bench seat, Engine Control Unit, shaker scoop, paddle tires, shift light. -- Interiot 15:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Just to get the word out to everyone, I have added a cell for "parent_company" to the infobox below manufacturer. So now there shouldn't be as many arguments over who is manufacturing what. Signature brendel 22:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
A number of car pages have so many pictures and so many info boxes (with even more pictures within those info boxes) that they overwhelm and overshadow the text of page. Basicly, the articles are lopsided (and so do not look at all professional), and in fact, cause some to not render properly on a browser. Nissan Sentra is one of the worst, but it is not difficult to find other examples. Should there really be an info box for each generation of a car? Can the info box be compacted some? Something really needs to change. Mrand 12:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Bull-Doser: When you archive a discussion, you are only supposed to archive the inactive topics. Threads that people are still actively posting to should stay in the current discussions area. SteveBaker 17:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Could you all please keep a close eye on Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Mercedes-Benz W220 and Jaguar XJ? A user by the name of Daimler with no profile and no talk page has been adding his opinion to the S-Class page, calling Mercedes "fat," "hideous," and "certainly no Audi A8 or Jaguar XJ." To the Jaguar XJ page, he has been adding comments like "dream car" and "far better than its German rivals." This is an obvious case of heavy POV, and despite my constant reverts, he is not stopping. Could someone issue him a stern warning, please? Jagvar 15:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Please stop posting your musings and rants over here. This talk page is where the activities and important issues within the scope of the WikiProject Automobiles should be discussed and NOT one's thoughts about car models, their succession, their competitors and their future, as well as NOT the place to publicize personal attacks on other users (which are against WP:NPA anyway), and essays proclaiming one's superiority over other users and dissatisfaction with WP (dissatisfied users are free to leave anytime).
In case the matter actually DOES pertain to a given article, like the issue of whether a given car is a successor/competitor to another, please keep the discussion confined to the car's article's talk page. If you would like more input from other users on the issue, do simply inform them here that a given discussion takes place on this and this page.
This way, the WikiProject talk page will be much easier to monitor for REALLY important issues that get lost along the way. Thank you! Bravada, talk - 08:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
I have the Yugo up for peer review, and I would like to see people contribute to it. It is here Karrmann 00:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
On the 22 June a large piece of text has been added to the Kit car article by 139.11.40.132. This appears to be a "translation" of the German Wikipedia entry. The trouble is it is not a good translation and is very hard to understand. I am not sure what to do about it. I seems we have several options:
Any ideas? Malcolma 08:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, as you can see I have archived the past 50 disucssion points. Please let me know if there is a probelm. I have one question though, I actually planned to archive the "AMC Matador progeny?" as well, due to the extensive length of that discussion, but did not want to do so without first asking as that discussion took place quite recently. Thank you. Best Regards, Signature brendel 18:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Hate to be the dissenter (again), but I think archiving every 50 sections is a nice even divisor, and it follows the previous archives too. Archiving 53 just because one of the last ones was bigger than average seems... odd. The Matador debate does take up a disproportionate amount of space just now, because it's on a page with about 4-5 other sections, but after a few weeks there'll be 20+ discussions and it'll look fine. Regards, DeLarge 20:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC) (resident devil's advocate)
Yes, your right, it is a bit odd, but only a little bit. Usually an archive is created for every 50 discussion, in this case it was 53. I don not think, however, that it is so bad that one of the archives has 53 discussions while the others have 50. Regards, Signature brendel 21:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
If you look at the history of the article, I've done a lot of work to it over the past three months, and modesty aside, improved it greatly over previous versions.
Now, a new user made some edits to this article yesterday, which (I think) slightly waters down the desription of the company's recent troubles. However, rather than simply doing a rude revert, I've posted comments on the article's talk page inviting a response. However, I've put so much into the article recently (as you can see from the history page since April '06) that I'm worried about "taking ownership", so I'd appreciate if more objective editors than myself could look over it (and the discussion) and give feedback.
EDIT - actually, while you're there, I've been considering submitting the article for peer review, with an idea to getting it GA status. If you want to give it an informal assessment while you're there, I'd be grateful.
Regards, -- DeLarge 09:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, well, I guess that's a consensus. I actually didn't like the word initially myself either, but the more I researched while preparing the article, the more accurate it seemed - I honestly couldn't find a single redeeming feature of the deal for DCX's shareholders, and used it only after long consideration. Still, as I'm the only pro-debacle voice, I'll retract my comments and strike through them on the MMC talk page (except for the one on "mass layoffs" anyway). -- DeLarge 15:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to the support from the participating members of WikiProject Automobiles during both phases of the peer review (special big thanks to DeLarge), the Talbot Tagora article has been significantly improved and is now nominated as a Featured Article Candidate. You can access it's nomination page directly here - all members of the WikiProject who have NOT been involved in the development of the article are eligible to express their views on whether it meets the Featured Article criteria there! If you would find time to review it, I would be most grateful. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 20:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I am happy to announce to you that today Raul, the Featured Article Director, found the Talbot Tagora worthy of the coveted little star! So, we now have another Featured Article within our WikiProject, which I believe comes in a very timely moment as two others are in danger of getting delisted.
I would like to thank all Members of this WikiProject who have helped this article achieve FA status, be it by reviewing it, tweaking some minor bits, helping procure the elusive free images, and obviously those who have added huge chunks of content and revamped the article thoroughly so that objections raised during FAC could be alleviated.
So, now if we want to boost the profile of automotive content at Wikipedia, we can lobby for the Tagora to become Wikipedia:Today's featured article and to be featured in Template:Did you know!
Thanks again everybody! Bravada, talk - 11:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
The article Passenger vehicles in the United States has now evolved into a long and comprehensive article and would really a appreciate a peer review in order to improve the article. Thank you. Best Regards, Signature brendel 23:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
In case you don't know who he is, he registered as User:Take Me Higher and uploaded possibly hundreds of poorly self made pictures of poorly exposed cars from the back. We have tried to talk to him, and give him advice on how to imporve his pictures. He has ignored us every time, and continued to upload bad pictures. Re filed a request for comment for him, which he never replied to, or I don't think he even viewed. He posts regularly on his talk page, using it as a blog sometimes, but he would never respond to our comments about his images, showing that he was flat out ignoring us. It got to the point where tons of people were leaving him comments about his pictures, and to stop, so he created an account called User:Bull-Doser so that he wouldn't hear from us everyday about his pictures. This failed, as when Don noticed a picture of a poorly exposed car from the back, and noticed he created a new username, making Bull-Doser a sockpuppet. Now, he is taking poorly done pictures of cars like he always did, which are badly cropped, or taken from the back of the car in the bright sun, meaning the sun is glaring in the picture. He now takes these images and places them as the head image to many articles, compromising the integrity of them. example We have left numerous warnings on his talk page, because his account change was seen as the last straw. He has continued to ignore these warnings, and many people are very pissed at his arrogance. I have even threatened to file a vandalism in progress report, which I am very close to doing. I later noticed that he joined this project. So if he wants to be a part of this project to improve automobile articles, then the bad pictures have to come to a stop. His bad pics and his arrogance has us all annoyed, and I am very close to filing a vandalism in progress report on him if I have to go to that extreme measures to get him to stop. We have to do something about him. We have two choices: He can stop being so arrogent and respond to us, and we can work together to improve his pictures, or he can continue to be the way he is, and we can file a vandalism in progress report against him, get admins involved in warning him, and trying to get him to improve his pics, and if he acts the way he does now, he would end up getting blocked for a day or two to show how our tolerance with his poor pics and his arrogance has come to an end. It's his choice. All I know is that we have reached the end of our rope with tolerating his poor pictures and his arrogence, and a few members I know would porbably be all for using force to stop the pictures, but I want to give him the benefit of a doubt, and give him ONE more chance to stop being so arrogent, talk and work this out, before we use force. Karrmann 16:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
This issue has come up a couple of times recently ( AMC Matador and Talbot Tagora): Is a low resolution scan of a photo from a car brochure or advert acceptable as 'Fair use' for the image in the Infobox of a car article?
I maintain that it is almost never legal in that situation. The fair use copyright tag says:
"It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of promotional material * to illustrate the work or product in question; * in the absence of free images that could serve such a purpose; * on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement."
...we fail the second clause "in the absence of free images that could serve such a purpose". Is it really impossible (or even difficult) to obtain photographs under an open license? No, it isn't. On AMC Matador, Mini and Mini Moke, I have done the following: Go to eBay. Search eBay motors for someone selling that car. Look at the photos. Do a 'Mail the seller' and ask really nicely whether it would be possible to use one of his photos to illustrate an article on it in Wikipedia. In all three cases, the very first person I asked was very happy to provide more images than I needed under any license I stipulated and they each remarked that they were honored to be featured!. That was using eBay - if I'd gone to an enthusiasts club or searched in Google images or something like that I think it would have been just as easy. If the first person I asked had refused, I bet the second, third or fourth would have said yes. Given that evidence, there is absolutely no way to claim that using brochure scans is fair use...except perhaps for cars that are so unbelivably rare that no examples still exist or something.
Using brochure scans is both illegal and lazy - 10 minutes searching and an email to the right person is all it takes in the majority of cases. If all else fails - and if you've been trying every available avenue for weeks or months and not turned up any kind of photo of the car - then, maybe we can accept fair use. Breach of copyright is illegal and can get Wikipedia *and* the person who posts the image into deep, deep trouble.
SteveBaker 03:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Wow! I spread the word among my fellow [www.gminsidenews.com GMInsideNews] members, one of whom helped spread the word further, and I am getting literally showered with pics - now I need to find time to deal with them all, remove license plate and stuff. The said fellow member, Ifcar, also provided me with links to forum postings of minitaures of his car show pics. As they are car show pics, they sometimes contain people and overall they are of varying quality. We've agreed that I will ask you which ones you think are Wikipedia-appropriate and then I will ask him for higher-res versions. So, if you can spare a moment, please see those pictures and discuss which ones are OK to be used on Wikipedia. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 22:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I am glad to report I am making some progress on my part, I have already uploaded some of the images I received, although they were actually quite random and unrelated to what I have chosen as my first goal during this drive - furnish all Chrysler Europe cars' articles with nice free photos. Of particular urgency is the Talbot Tagora article - it is a FAC now and, as Steve noted, it cannot become an FA without a free picture. With relation to that, I would like to ask native English and non-native, just any French speakers to help me with those two issues:
I cannot understand why you cannot use official photos - they were issued for press use, or are you making money out of using them, in which case I can understand? If you could explain what your organisation is designed for, I could ask people in our club if they have suitable photos to spare. Alternatively, you could use illustrations from adverts and brochues - there are plenty available at autojumbles and ebay.
Thanks a lot! Bravada, talk - 23:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd be happy to email David Chapman for you - could you send me his email address (better not post it here 'cos he might like getting spammed - send it to me at sjbaker1-at-airmail-dot-net SteveBaker 20:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I know we've been over this before, at least kind of, but there has been a dispute over Bravada adding the {{Speculation}} template to the Lincoln MkS article. Personally I think the article is fine and complies w/ the current standards I perceive to exsist for concept vehicle articles. I would like however to hear your opinion on the issue, whether or not you think the Lincoln MKS article is a good example of a concept vehicle article. If you could spare a minute I would really appreciate it. Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 22:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we need to standardise on one thing: should we be using litres or cc or cm^3 when stating the engine capacities? From what I know, many articles use litres, but cc is still an official standard in many countries, while cm^3 is a more SI-correct unit. Ariedartin JECJY 13:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that a lot of articles have "In pop culture" sections and such that list all the movies, TV shows or even music videos that a car appeared in. I think these sections aren't really that notable, except in the case of certain cars (like the Ford Pinto or Yugo, for example). Should these sections be removed, or should they be kept? -- ApolloBoy 22:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm inclined to say "no," based on their MSRPs, competitors and Consumer Guide classifications. I might consider the Chrysler 300 to be an entry-level luxury sedan, but that's the only model, and even that's a stretch. I just find it silly to put Chryslers in the same category as BMWs and Jaguars.
Whenever anyone removes the category "Luxury vehicles" from the bottom of a Chrysler page (see Chrysler LHS), one particular user reverts it with little or no explanation. This user is an admitted Chrysler owner and therefore, I believe, somewhat biased.
So please, offer your input. Do you think Chrysler models should be tagged as luxury vehicles? And can anything be done? Jagvar 21:22, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
What is considered a luxury car in one market may be a minimally acceptable one in another. The term is just too vague. I don't think it belongs here. SteveBaker 04:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's the interesting thing. When I think of luxury cars, I normally think of brands like Audi, Bugatti, Rolls-Royce, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and the like. If you can try and visualize Volkswagen's brand lineup alongside DCX's, then I could say that SEAT is VW's Dodge, Skoda is what Plymouth could've been, followed by VW (comparable with Chrysler) and then Audi (comparable with Mercedes-Benz), and so forth. All this jibber-jabber is insane! How about if we just calm down and accept that a category like luxury cars is purely subjective based on one person's own opinion? - Daniel Blanchette 16:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Apollo Boy has stated that Chrysler "Has not competed with the likes of Cadillac and Lincoln." So categorizing Chrysler (the marque) as luxury is incorrect. Some Chrysler models such as Chrylser 300C are luxury models, and so may have been the LHS Series. It is okay to tag those articles, dealing with those particular vehicles as luxo cars. Regards, Signature brendel 00:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Glossaries like Automotive design terminology / Car body style... a good or bad idea? Cons: Somewhat unencyclopdic. May be more suited to wiktionary or others. Pros: It's a home where semi-notable perma-stubs can be merged to. Lists dicdefs organized by topic (eg. "break = station wagon" would be largely ignored if it was grouped with other meanings of " break" on wiktionary) -- Interiot 13:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I realize that I have asked before, but I would still greatly appreciate your input on the Passenger vehicles in the United States! The article is a current GA nominee and is in need of a peer review- this could be another FA for this project. Please, if you can spare a few minutes, your input would be greatly appreciated. Signature brendel 16:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Bull-Doser: Car photographer (Free Use)
Bavaria: ConsumerGuide guy (Fair Use)
ApolloBoy: Both ConsumerGuide & photographer (Fair & Free Use)
In addition to photographing cars, I use ConsumerGuide for non- Canadian cars.
Bull-Doser 03:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Mercedes-Benz 450SEL 6.9 is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 21:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Volkswagen Type 2 is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality.
Sorry to hit you with two at once: we really need help :-) Sandy 22:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
The Shadow only replaced the Charger & Omni. The Spirit replaced the Aries & Lancer. The Dynasty replaced the 600 & Diplomat. Even the LeBaron was a rebadged Aries, and after 1990 became a rebadged Spirit. And the pre-1988 New Yorker was based on the 600, and the post-1989 New Yorker became a Dynasty. Because the Shadow was a hatchback, it did NOT replace the Aries sedan. It replaced the Charger & Omni as the "hatchback" Dodge.
Bull-Doser 17:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
1989 Dodge Omni: $1,275 - $1,450
1989 Dodge Colt: $1,350 - $1,875
1989 Dodge Shadow: $1,275 - $1,475
1988 Dodge 600: $1,125 - $1,350
1989 Dodge Spirit: $1,225 - $1,650
1988 Dodge Aries: $1,100 - $1,225
1988 Dodge Lancer: $1,125 - $1,350
1989 Dodge Diplomat: $1,300 - $1,475
1989 Dodge Dynasty: $1,400 - $1,750 -- Bull-Doser 16:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
As you might have noticed, the Anniversaries section of the Portal:Cars is still missing entries for some dates, which is pretty embarassing, I believe. I have found out that the History Channel site has a section that can be very helpful with filling in the blanks [3]. I have already started taking blatant advantage of it, and I guess I am done with the first half of the year. If somebody could take care of the rest of the year, or perhaps just individual months, it would be great. It doesn't require much typing, but is quite repetitive... :( Bravada, talk - 18:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC) PS. Oh, and don't forget to voice you opinion on the Talbot Tagora's Featured Article Nomination!
Although IFCAR is from the United States, I'm Canadian! IFCAR is beginning to upload images like ME! Bull-Doser 01:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I have recently noted that unlike articles concerning vehicles made by other sbusidaries, the Nissan articles feature Nissan as the sole manufacturer and not Renault-Nissan. As far as I know Renault owns the controling share of Nissan, yet I do not know if it has officially become a Renault subsidary. Nonetheless I think we should list Renault-Nissan as manufacrturer of Nissan vehicles, just like we list Daimler-Chryler as the manufacturer for Damiler-Chrysler vehicles. Best Regards, Signature brendel 17:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that there are many tasks left unanswered in the Ford Taurus' task page. I really want to get this article featured, so I am asking you to give your all to this article. Karrmann 18:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
The HHR slots in length between the Aveo and the Cobalt, just like what the Prizm was, slotting in length between the Metro and the Cavalier. The HHR is more expensive than the Cobalt, just like back then, when the Prizm was priced above the Cavalier. Just like HHR replaces Cavalier, the Caliber replaces the Dodge Neon.
Bull-Doser 18:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
All the time I had been on WP, I had understood that the name of the automobile in the country of origin was the least ambiguous way to refer to a model, something discussed on Archive Page 1. This had been the case prior to this discussion and appeared to have reached a consensus.
I now notice, however, that some pages have been altered to reflect an export country's viewpoint. I note Hyundai Elantra and Hyundai Avante. Have the rules changed, or was the person who shifted the Avante's data to the Elantra page unaware of this convention? —Stombs 05:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I've revised pages for the Toyota Tundra (adding the double cab version) and the Hyundai Santa Fe (adding the 2005- 2006 versions and the 2007 version that's out now). All images came from the Wikimedia Commons.-- Bull-Doser 17:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the Pathfinder slots below the Murano in the lineup, it is rumoured the Pathfinder will use Nissan's new D platform (used by the 2007-present Altima) and continue to slot below the Maxima-based Murano in the lineup. Still, the Pathfinder would continue to be built in Tennessee.-- Bull-Doser 00:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
1985-
1988 (Before
Geo):
Chevrolet Sprint Vs.
Ford Escort (Or
Festiva)
Chevrolet Spectrum Vs. Ford Escort
Chevrolet Chevette Vs. Ford Escort
Chevrolet Nova Vs.
Ford Tempo
Chevrolet Cavalier Vs. Ford Tempo
Chevrolet Corsica (
1987-88) Vs. Ford Tempo (Or Taurus)
Chevrolet Celebrity Vs.
Ford Taurus
Chevrolet Caprice Vs.
Ford LTD Crown Victoria
1989-
1997 (The Geo Era):
Geo Metro Vs. Ford Festiva/
Aspire
Geo Spectrum/
Prizm Vs. Ford Escort
Chevrolet Cavalier Vs. Ford Tempo (Note the second-generation Cavalier was longer in length than the Tempo. I heard a
1991
GM Canada commercial had a 1991 Cavalier &
Sunbird next to a Ford Tempo)
Chevrolet Corsica Vs. Ford Tempo (Corsica & Tempo were compacts)
Chevrolet Lumina Vs. Ford Taurus
Chevrolet Caprice/
Impala Vs.
Ford Crown Victoria
To squeeze this,
GM &
Ford's rivals were:
Mainstream:
Chevrolet/Geo/
GMC/
Saturn - Ford
Near Luxury:
Oldsmobile/
Pontiac -
Mercury
Luxury:
Buick/
Cadillac -
Lincoln
Buick was never really on Cadillac's and Lincoln's level. Signature brendel 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Now:
Mainstream: Chevrolet/GMC/Pontiac/Saturn - Ford
Near Luxury: Buick - Mercury
Luxury: Cadillac - Lincoln/
Jaguar
Luxury:
Saab -
Volvo --
Bull-Doser
02:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Correct! Signature brendel 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay are you asking a question? If so let me try and answer it. The "Now" section is correct! The section before- Buick was never really on the same level as Cadillac and Lincoln, but rather competed w/ Mercury. Signature brendel 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
On my own website, I've been collecting photos of the BMW MINI in every possible paint scheme colour (there are a LOT because of contrasting roof options). I get a bunch of hits - mostly (I think) from people thinking about buying the car and wondering what colour to pick - but I don't particularly need the load on my home web server and serving up the page from a wrong-direction-DSL line is S-L-O-W.
So the question is - would this be seen as an appropriate thing to transfer into a Wikipedia gallery? If so, should it be a part of the MINI (BMW) page or should I start a "List of every possible MINI colour]] page?
The current page is here: [4]
PS. Oh, and of course it would be only natural for WP articles to link to this Wiki much like they link to Wiktionary or Commons today.
Okay. I've looked at the length of the Mazda CX-9, and it's about 198 inches (about longer than a 4Runner). The CX-7 is a mid-size competing with Highlander, Pathfinder or Pilot, the CX-9 is another mid-size competing with 4Runner, Explorer or Murano. The Murano, of course, slots above the Pathfinder. The CX-7 is identical in length to a Highlander or 2007 Santa Fe. Both CX-7 & CX-9 are based off the CD3. -- Bull-Doser 18:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
IFCAR - Only uploads free images
Bull-Doser - Uploads free & fair images
Bavaria - Only uploads fair images
And the winner is? Stay tuned! -- Bull-Doser 20:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused as to why the Ford Ranger has about five generations, when in fact there were only two. One user I talked to said that there were enough differences between 1983-1988 and 1989-1992 Rangers to constitute two generations, when in fact most of the body panels between the two are exactly the same and the only major differences were the front fascia and interior. What do you guys think? Should there only be two generations or five? -- ApolloBoy 20:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu has been trying to add the Chevrolet Chevette as one of the predecessors of the Chevrolet Cavalier. I really don't think the Cavalier replaced the Chevette, as the two were aimed at different markets and even overlapped for 5 years. However, he refuses to listen to me, and keeps adding it back in, using a page from Edmunds which he takes out of context. What does everyone else say? -- ApolloBoy 00:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Just trying to get clarification here: "Cavalier also replace the European Chevette." You're talking about the Vauxhall Chevette/ Opel Kadett and the Vauxhall Cavalier/ Opel Ascona? -- DeLarge 08:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I see this WikiProject doesn't have a project notice template. Please see Wikipedia:Template_messages/Talk_namespace#WikiProject notices. One article, GMC Denali, has the generic template on its talk page right now. Please create the project notice template and replace that generic template with it. -- Geopgeop 14:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
The TSX was introduced in 2004 to replace the CL coupe, and both were based on the Honda Accord. Acura dropped the Integra sedan from the lineup in 1997, and it was replaced in Canada by the Acura EL. Both cars were based on the Civic. With Acura phasing out the RSX after 2006, a TSX coupe will replace it. As what I saw on MSN Autos, the Integra didn't have a sedan in 1997. -- Bull-Doser 20:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
There are some major errors here that are nearly impossible to fix because of policing.
It is claimed that the heir to the Aries is not the nearly identical Dodge Spirit in size, layout and room, but the much smaller Omini replacement, the Dodge Shadow. I tried fixing it once, but it came back, and even ApolloBoy indicated he though that was broken at one point in time. Then I noticed somebody jumping all over Bulldozer for the same thing. I found Allpar, a parts site, and a consumer buyers site all saying Spirit and the EEK was the replacement, but all I get is yelled at, told that none of the sources is valid, and get reverted, along with anything else I might have said.
Similarly, several auto sites say the Chevy import fighters started with Covair, then Vega / Monza, Chevette, Cavalier, then Cobalt. However the way the pages have been connected on WP is Vega to Monza / Chevette (so far so good), but then Chevette->Spectrum/Sprint (what?) and Monza-> Cavalier, even though the Monza was a tiny niche coupe, and the Cavalier was a best seller with notchback, hatchbck, sedan and wagon bodies. I can't even put this sequence on the Corvair page without getting spit out by these same editors. Ditto a hit song about the Chevette, or any attempt to mention the existence of any replica of a car. It's no democracy, I've entered a little kingdom where, rather than a place where anybody can write anything, nothing happens unless it coforms to some gigantic unwritten rule book of things that a secretly allowed or unallowed, and the only way to find out is to put in in and see what happens. Any attempt to link the Chevette to the Cavalier is met by reverts from 3 different editors, and more bad feelings and warnings that none of the six sources is valid since all are less than perfect, and only perfect citations are acceptable to replace what appears to be uncited guesses based on original research, and being told that I don't know the way things are suppoosed to work, which is evidently whatever a gang of editors want to work, since they have no directly supporting or contradicting primary sources and they dismiss six different primary sources.
A web search for supporting sources shows only one place where the shadow replaces the Aries, and the Cavalier does not replace the Chevette -- the Wikipedia.
As a man of principal and character, do you recommend
Fight for the right thing, no matter how many editors complain or threaten or revert, stick to posting correct and cited information and replaced uncited information
Or do you recommend - back off and go where I am not contested
Is there anybody else out there who objects to the behavior of these
auto editors, or am I the only one having problems?? --
matador300
17:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there such a list? If not there should be. ;) I mean I see tons of things that I could photograph, but a lot of times they already have a better example. I would just love a list so that I could look for specific things. ren0 talk 20:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu is writing way too much POV, and his writing is 100% inapproiate for a public encylopedia. Just read List of successful automobiles, which he contributed significately too. It sounds like Jeremy Clarkson wrote it! What do you think we should do? Karrmann 15:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, Wairthu, if everyone is so hostile towards you, then why ar you persoanlly attacking members on your userpage? Karrmann 19:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
First off a G20 would compete with a C-Class. An I30/I35 would compete with an E-Class, while a Q45 would compete with an S-Class. Lexus's lineup winded to four sedans in 2001 by adding the IS that slots below the ES, and Mercedes-Benz winded up to four in 2005 by adding the CLS-Class to slot between the E-Class & S-Class. I35 heavily competed with the TL & ES, but also the GS, which was shorter than the I35 & ES. Q45's competitor is the LS, but the I30/I35 was Infiniti's only midsize until the M45 arrived in 2003. Now the M is Infiniti's only midsize (even though it includes 35 & 45). An I35 was cheaper than an E-Class or 5 Series, but was priced similarly to a Q45. Q45 almost competed with the GS & E-Class. Q45 competed with Acura RL, Lexus LS & Mercedes-Benz S-Class before the M45 arrived. The I35 did not quite rival the C-Class or 3-Series, because they were rivals of the G20. Infiniti's always had 3 sedans (except for 1996, 2003 & 2004). -- Bull-Doser 04:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I'll have to add that to my list of despicable Wikipedia tactics. Scheinwerfermann and 93JC have been guilty of policing an incomplete and unverifiable POV, and deleting new information cited from freaking AUTOMOTIVE REFERENCE BOOKS for pete's sake. I thought the other guy was the only one who denied every reference up to and including Aviation Week and Janes, now over here the rule is that a website by Consumer Guide, and 2 15LB reference books are wrong. I figured out the deal is that Spirit/Acclaim were intended to replace Aries/Reliant as any dummy might guess by looking at the cars without resorting to going to price list and concluding the wildly different Sundance and Shadow which were designed to replace the Omni were also originally designed to replace the K-cars. (Does anybody besides MrS seriously believe this??) The internal document is a) not put into a proper citation, it was put into the talk page, that's an error for those of you who think Scheinwerfermann is infallible b) not publically available in any library or website since it was intended only for dealers c) only states that on introduction Shadow was to replace Aries, which it could not since Aries was not canned until mid-season, while 600 was already discontinued. Since these sources do NOT conflict except over the minor detail as to whether Shadow replaced Aries immediatey, or after Aries was retired, there is no reason to DELETE (that's vandalism) information since it is a) not contradictory and b) even if allpar, partstrain, a consumer digest 10 lb book and website, and the standard catalog chrysler's professional editors are wrong, and Sch., an amatuer is right, it is the obligation of Sch. to document what everybody else thinks rather than DELETE this new information. Am I right? I'm the one standing up to bullying behavior, so why is it that I'm the one being put up on trial for putting up verifiable information? It is also NEVER vandalism to put up cited edits in good faith, so that's ERROR NO. 2. Is this sort of stuff condoned over here? If the author of the Standard Chrysler catalog tried to correct this error, should he have to don a helmet and flak jacket and a list of 300 sources to do it?? -- matador300 14:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Proper conduct would be
Anybody disagree with these principles of civil conduct? -- matador300 15:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
So, I looked again on MSN Autos, and the
Integra DID have a
sedan in its final year of production. Now, let's start this
Acura vs.
Infiniti vs.
Lexus vs.
Mercedes-Benz info.
Pre-
2001:
Integra Vs.
G20 Vs.
ES Vs.
C-Class
TL Vs.
I30 Vs.
GS Vs.
E-Class
RL Vs.
Q45 Vs.
LS Vs.
S-Class
2005-Present:
TSX Vs.
G35 Vs.
IS Vs. C-Class
TL Vs.
M35 Vs. ES Vs. E-Class
RL Vs. M45 Vs. GS Vs.
CLS-Class
Q45 Vs. LS Vs. S-Class
Note the Acura RL was downsized in length after 2005 to compete with mid-priced sedans. As we all know, the RL is a fullsize. -- Bull-Doser 00:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Ford is doing much worse than GM in revenue. GM is still profitable today, despite being the largest car company in the world. I like GM over Ford. One of the only Ford cars I like are the Lincolns and the Ford Fusion. I wrote a Way Forward-related article on the Ford Crown Victoria page. Even GM's restructuring plan killed Oldsmobile. -- Bull-Doser 00:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
BLACKLISTED LINK REMOVED
I debuted this! -- Bull-Doser 22:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
When I joined Wikipedia a year and a half ago, there was a problem with the automotive pages - there just weren't enough pictures to illustrate the articles. Now, however, I feel that we have the opposite problem - there are far too many! I can understand having one picture of each generation of a car (or at the most, two, if they display the car at different angles), but too many articles are just crammed with photo after photo of the same cars. I don't feel this adds to an article. On the contrary, I feel that all these photos crowd the text and distract from the content of the article. For example, do we really need 17 photos of the Toyota Camry or 14 photos of the Nissan Maxima? This site is becoming more like a WebShots album than an encyclopedia. I'd love to know what your thoughts are. Jagvar 14:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I'll take this chance to mention that the more technical side actually needs more photos, and if anyone wants to take a picture of their beauty, the following articles have no pictures and could use one: power window, power door locks, power seat, coilover, t-top, filter (oil), fender (automobile), brake, bench seat, Engine Control Unit, shaker scoop, paddle tires, shift light. -- Interiot 15:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Just to get the word out to everyone, I have added a cell for "parent_company" to the infobox below manufacturer. So now there shouldn't be as many arguments over who is manufacturing what. Signature brendel 22:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
A number of car pages have so many pictures and so many info boxes (with even more pictures within those info boxes) that they overwhelm and overshadow the text of page. Basicly, the articles are lopsided (and so do not look at all professional), and in fact, cause some to not render properly on a browser. Nissan Sentra is one of the worst, but it is not difficult to find other examples. Should there really be an info box for each generation of a car? Can the info box be compacted some? Something really needs to change. Mrand 12:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Bull-Doser: When you archive a discussion, you are only supposed to archive the inactive topics. Threads that people are still actively posting to should stay in the current discussions area. SteveBaker 17:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Could you all please keep a close eye on Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Mercedes-Benz W220 and Jaguar XJ? A user by the name of Daimler with no profile and no talk page has been adding his opinion to the S-Class page, calling Mercedes "fat," "hideous," and "certainly no Audi A8 or Jaguar XJ." To the Jaguar XJ page, he has been adding comments like "dream car" and "far better than its German rivals." This is an obvious case of heavy POV, and despite my constant reverts, he is not stopping. Could someone issue him a stern warning, please? Jagvar 15:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Please stop posting your musings and rants over here. This talk page is where the activities and important issues within the scope of the WikiProject Automobiles should be discussed and NOT one's thoughts about car models, their succession, their competitors and their future, as well as NOT the place to publicize personal attacks on other users (which are against WP:NPA anyway), and essays proclaiming one's superiority over other users and dissatisfaction with WP (dissatisfied users are free to leave anytime).
In case the matter actually DOES pertain to a given article, like the issue of whether a given car is a successor/competitor to another, please keep the discussion confined to the car's article's talk page. If you would like more input from other users on the issue, do simply inform them here that a given discussion takes place on this and this page.
This way, the WikiProject talk page will be much easier to monitor for REALLY important issues that get lost along the way. Thank you! Bravada, talk - 08:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)