Copied from User talk:Xiong:
Hi, Xiong. I'm actually not sure that what we're trying to do with the recent air templates has methods closer to the wikipedia as a whole. The only other project I know of with complex parameter-based templates is WP:Ships, and they had a similar method to what myself and User:Ingoolemo have used.
What we need is a template that will output an aircraft's specifications (for example: User:Ericg/template_test2). It should work with jets or propeller aircraft (or the rare case of both), helicopters or fixed-wing. We also need to be able to specify which type of units, metric or imperial/other, are listed first, as the manufacturer's nation is our 'primary unit' source. Ingoolemo built himself a more advanced version than I, which worked with most types. If you know how to streamline that, drop him a message (or we can take this discussion to the WP:Air page).
- eric ✈ 07:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
New discussion
I have enumerated a list of goals, which is naturally not set in stone. I would like to request that discussion be reserved for the talk page. Thanks, Ingoolemo talk 19:40, 2005 August 18 (UTC)
To clarify the reason I created {{ aircontent}}: In the past we've had some ordering and style changes. In case we change again - back to a table, for example, or if we want to rename sections (similar aircraft vs comparable aircraft is one past example), it's far easier to change it once in the template than track down which of the thousands of aircraft articles use which style and change them all.
I personally think the structure of it at a user's end isn't too difficult, but I'm also a somewhat above-average computer-savvy type. - eric ✈ 03:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Mm. I fully understand your desire to transclude, rather than substitute. You do want to be able to go back and overhaul the format without fiddling with each individual page.
However, the current templates, as I see them, are incredibly difficult to use. This is not the fault of the designers; the template mechanism is very, very limited. Most notably, it has a great shortcoming, in that unsupplied parameters are echoed, thus: {{{1}}}. I can most charitably describe this as dorky, since while many applications of templates need optional parameters, I can't think of any good reason to display a parameter placeholder anywhere.
I want to suggest a solution, but I think you won't like it. See Template talk:Doctl. This template is just a page of boilerplate; it is always substituted as the first action, then re-edited to customize it for a particular purpose. This is much easier for a new user to understand. Of course, once the work is done, its overall format cannot be changed on a hundred pages at once. This is the great thing about transclusion.
The right answer is to gang up on the developer team and get them to suppress output of unused parameters. If anyone from Air is willing to join, I'll do an RfC. — Xiong 熊 talk * 05:06, 2005 August 19 (UTC)
in the next 15 or so hours -- oh well, this is the wikinow. I'll cook something up. — Xiong 熊 talk * 02:14, 2005 August 26 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:Xiong:
Hi, Xiong. I'm actually not sure that what we're trying to do with the recent air templates has methods closer to the wikipedia as a whole. The only other project I know of with complex parameter-based templates is WP:Ships, and they had a similar method to what myself and User:Ingoolemo have used.
What we need is a template that will output an aircraft's specifications (for example: User:Ericg/template_test2). It should work with jets or propeller aircraft (or the rare case of both), helicopters or fixed-wing. We also need to be able to specify which type of units, metric or imperial/other, are listed first, as the manufacturer's nation is our 'primary unit' source. Ingoolemo built himself a more advanced version than I, which worked with most types. If you know how to streamline that, drop him a message (or we can take this discussion to the WP:Air page).
- eric ✈ 07:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
New discussion
I have enumerated a list of goals, which is naturally not set in stone. I would like to request that discussion be reserved for the talk page. Thanks, Ingoolemo talk 19:40, 2005 August 18 (UTC)
To clarify the reason I created {{ aircontent}}: In the past we've had some ordering and style changes. In case we change again - back to a table, for example, or if we want to rename sections (similar aircraft vs comparable aircraft is one past example), it's far easier to change it once in the template than track down which of the thousands of aircraft articles use which style and change them all.
I personally think the structure of it at a user's end isn't too difficult, but I'm also a somewhat above-average computer-savvy type. - eric ✈ 03:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Mm. I fully understand your desire to transclude, rather than substitute. You do want to be able to go back and overhaul the format without fiddling with each individual page.
However, the current templates, as I see them, are incredibly difficult to use. This is not the fault of the designers; the template mechanism is very, very limited. Most notably, it has a great shortcoming, in that unsupplied parameters are echoed, thus: {{{1}}}. I can most charitably describe this as dorky, since while many applications of templates need optional parameters, I can't think of any good reason to display a parameter placeholder anywhere.
I want to suggest a solution, but I think you won't like it. See Template talk:Doctl. This template is just a page of boilerplate; it is always substituted as the first action, then re-edited to customize it for a particular purpose. This is much easier for a new user to understand. Of course, once the work is done, its overall format cannot be changed on a hundred pages at once. This is the great thing about transclusion.
The right answer is to gang up on the developer team and get them to suppress output of unused parameters. If anyone from Air is willing to join, I'll do an RfC. — Xiong 熊 talk * 05:06, 2005 August 19 (UTC)
in the next 15 or so hours -- oh well, this is the wikinow. I'll cook something up. — Xiong 熊 talk * 02:14, 2005 August 26 (UTC)