This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Many WikiProjects have a thematic logo which is used consistently throughout project templates, such as awareness banners, userboxes, infoboxes, navigation boxes, stub tags, and so forth. However, given the often divisive nature of our project's subject, many of the images which one would immediately associate with abortion would have undesired connotations. I am sure most of us can agree that any image representative of either a fetus or a woman would frame the project, and, thus, its articles, in a manner suggestive of either feminism or the pro-life movement.
However, because at least two Wikipedians have voiced concerns over the appropriateness of the scales/ caduceus used in our userbox and stub tags, I feel it would be worthwhile to consider a potential alternative upon which we might all agree. Is there any arragement in which a representation of a fetus, woman, or both could be considered neutral? Or are these destined to be considered inherenthly non-neutral within the context of this WikiProject and the encyclopaedia articles it encompasses? What about representing abortion through surgical instruments which are used in certain procedures — like the curette?
Please feel free to give your ideas, thoughts, and suggestions, in the hope that we might decide upon an icon which would be more reflective of the project as a whole. - Severa ( !!!) 03:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I have decided to remove the icon for now. Ours is certainly not the first stub template to lack an icon. We are sacrificing immediate identifiability, I know, but in the interest of trying accommodate a number of views. At some point in the future we might conceive of an icon which will manage to address the concerns of everyone. - Severa ( !!!) 01:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone seen this:
Maybe this could be a pic? I have to say I'm not in favour of the abortion word, then I prefer just having no picture at all.-- Steven Fruitsmaak ( Reply) 00:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Probably a terrible idea, but how about: a sylized uterus, like we all saw in high school biology textbooks, with a question mark inside it? I mean very stylized. One problem being how to make it non-medically-graphic but at the same time recognizable. And all this in a small icon. Not being artistically inclined, I won't scupper my suggestion by offering a sample image. jnestorius( talk) 23:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
-- Steven Fruitsmaak | Talk 15:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
There have been some dramatic changes (most of them for the better) over at mifepristone and Depo Provera. However, I have not been able to go over each change with a fine tooth comb, so maybe with the combined efforts by the editors on this project, we may be able to get one or both articles up to GA or FA status, now that we have momentum from a single editor.-- Andrew c 22:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that your project is not listed on the Wikipedia:List of WikiProjects. It might benefit from greater exposure if it were. Badbilltucker 16:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Would it be worthwhile to create an infobox to be used throughout articles in Category:Forms of abortion? This template could provide information such as whether the abortion method is surgical or chemical, in which gestational time frame it is used, when the method first arose and/or when it approximately fell out of favour. Potential risks and the national accessibility and/or legality of various methods are further information which could be quickly conveyed in this format. Is there a formalised protocol for proposing and creating an infobox? Is anyone here familiar with it? - Severa ( !!!) 01:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Protocol at Template:Infobox Birth control seems to be complex and rather technical. I believe that this is not the sort of venture which we should approach without consulting an expert. - Severa ( !!!) 09:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Would it be useful for us to create a sort of "watchlist" for this project? This would include a list of the most vandalism-prone articles — our own take on Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol. It could also feature a "Current disputes" noticeboard where users could post information on active editorial disputes in articles. Hopefully, this would aid in dispute resolution by attracting outside opinions, as well as keeping users abreast of project happenings. - Severa ( !!!) 21:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
There has been an ongoing dispute between User:Cindery and I on Abortion. Now, however, I believe that Cindery has resorted to the use of a sockpuppet account, User:Mumblio. Observe the almost identical caricaturization of East-coast intellectual types on both Cindery's and Mumblio's user pages. Also, see Mumblio's edit history, which largely consists of agreeing with or praising Cindery, aside from a few dabblings in boxing-related topics. I am reminded of our dealings with User:Pro-Lick. However, I am unsure of how to approach the situation. - Severa ( !!!) 08:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
mumblio is his own man, and if you think he takes my side in every argument you have not had a look at my edit history. being nasty to a newbie like mumblio and calling him names is a violation of WP:NPA and WP:DBTN, however. the sad thing is that poor mumblio has barely participated at all in talk:abortion. Mksaksone, Talv, Andrewc, and Umdunno and i all support moving PAS out of the mental health section or at least not using it to frame the section. severa, however, has continually reverted compromise changes against consensus. i think an admin should be involved. Cindery 06:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
in order for the old SNL joke between dan akroyd and jane curtin to be an insult, mumblio would have to think so. [1] regarding your violations of NPA and DBNC--apologize to him yourslef. meanwhile, the real issue is that not only are you disruptively edit warring--against consensus, without any discussion--but have you violated 3RR in the last few hours. you went up to 6. and i'm reporting it, so that hopefully a break will help you get some perspective. Cindery 09:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
no, only you crossed it--6x. (although your last four reverts had more misleading edit summaries--claiming you were doing something other than reverting-- than the first two). you made no attempt to discuss anything--you haven't posted on talkpage all day. you invested your energy instead in personally attacking a new user, and continuing the same reverts you made yesterday. you need to cool off. Cindery 09:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
"Hello, Winhunter. I am willing to admit that I may have crossed the 3RR line in an editorial conflict with Cindery. However, Cindery has also crossed this line, and in addition there is reason to suspect that she may be relying upon a sockpuppet account, or engaging in "meatpuppetry," as defined by WP:SOCK. Please refer to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Abortion. Thank you. -Severa (!!!) 09:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)"
(so much for being "apologetic" that you personally attacked him--or me.)
the abortion page is now protected, with instructions to discuss changes on the talkpage. i think this is a good thing, but that severa should still take some time to cool off--so that she can return to the discussion able to participate instead of WP:OWN ing the page, personally attacking people who disagree with her, and refusing to generate or respect consensus. Cindery 10:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
as we have already established, mumblio is not a sockpuppet or a meatpuppet--he is a new user whom you personally attacked, and continue to personally attack. [2] he made two edits to the abortion article, during a span of time in which the edit history and the talk page grew several pages longer. you and you alone crossed 3RR --6x in only a few hours, with no discussion on the talkpage, during an accuracy dispute. when there was clear consensus for a compromise. cool off, and start thinking about how you can contribute constructively to the article, not how you can wikilawyer your bad faith actions as justified. Cindery 10:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Cindery 11:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I just created a pro-abortion violence article, as has been disccussed off-and-on here for a while, and tagged it with the WP:Abortion tag. Reviews of the article (well, stub), are requested, but, more urgently, does anyone know anything about adding an article to the WP:Abortion category tree? Thanks. -- BCSWowbagger 03:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Gah. Scatterbrained. I could also use some help updated the various See Also sections of the relevant articles. And perhaps the pro-choice article could use a section comparable to the one about anti-abortion violence in the pro-life movement. -- BCSWowbagger 03:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated Category:Abortion and reproductive rights advocacy groups in the United States for renaming as Category:United States pro-choice organizations in order to maintain consistency with the titling of other categories in this project. Please go to the CfD nomination page if you would like to lend your input. - Severa ( !!!) 16:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 00:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
A number of celebrities and politicians have recently been added to both Category:Pro-choice activists and Category:Pro-life activists. Pro-choice and pro-life celebrity categories were deleted in a CfD in November 2005. Similar politician categories were also recently deleted as the result of a a CfD nomination in October 2006. The original intent of the "activist" categories was to create categories into which we could sort articles relating to individuals whose primary claim to notability is or was their involvement in the abortion movement. In light of this, and the both CFDs, should we take action to prevent these two categories from becoming a laundry list of celebrities and politicians? - Severa ( !!!) 21:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Categories were CfD'd. Guess it's back to constantly policing Category:Pro-life activists and Category:Pro-choice activists for inappropriate additions. *sigh* - Severa ( !!!) 03:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I encourage everyone to consider a new name for Parental notification (abortion) over at Talk:Parental notification (abortion). One editor made an out of process move to Parental involvement (abortion), and I reverted that. Let's try to build consensus for a new title before making bold moves. The issue is that this article covers not only parental notification, but also parental consent laws. (also, it seems like the editor made a find and replace in the actual article text to introduce a term that is not the most commonly used term, which I feel violated the naming conventions).-- Andrew c 22:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
User:Piccadilly has created a number of national subcategories under Category:Pro-life activists. However, some of these new categories are redundant, or do not comply with our WikiProject Abortion titling conventions. Please feel free to comment at the renaming nomination I have begun here. - Severa ( !!!) 03:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated Category:Pro-life commentators, which was overlooked in the recent CfD, for deletion in an effort to clean up my error in judgment in creating the new Activist by profession categories. Please feel to comment here. - Severa ( !!!) 04:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Should we become involved in WVWP? We would go through all of the articles within our project and assess their quality. This would help us to determine the strongest articles within our project and those which are still in need of improvement. Perhaps we could break down articles alphabetically in order to avoid concerns of favouritism in review selection. We could also each post a list of articles of which we'd like to opt out of reviewing due to our own in-depth involvement in them. Please let me know your thoughts on this. I am eager to see this project move forward. Thanks. - Severa ( !!!) 10:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Violence in the abortion movement has been home to a number of problematic recent changes. Monitoring and input from other users would be appreciated. - Severa ( !!!) 09:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Abortion and Evangelical Christians has been nominated for deletion. Please see the discussion page to comment. - Severa ( !!!) 03:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Many WikiProjects have a thematic logo which is used consistently throughout project templates, such as awareness banners, userboxes, infoboxes, navigation boxes, stub tags, and so forth. However, given the often divisive nature of our project's subject, many of the images which one would immediately associate with abortion would have undesired connotations. I am sure most of us can agree that any image representative of either a fetus or a woman would frame the project, and, thus, its articles, in a manner suggestive of either feminism or the pro-life movement.
However, because at least two Wikipedians have voiced concerns over the appropriateness of the scales/ caduceus used in our userbox and stub tags, I feel it would be worthwhile to consider a potential alternative upon which we might all agree. Is there any arragement in which a representation of a fetus, woman, or both could be considered neutral? Or are these destined to be considered inherenthly non-neutral within the context of this WikiProject and the encyclopaedia articles it encompasses? What about representing abortion through surgical instruments which are used in certain procedures — like the curette?
Please feel free to give your ideas, thoughts, and suggestions, in the hope that we might decide upon an icon which would be more reflective of the project as a whole. - Severa ( !!!) 03:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I have decided to remove the icon for now. Ours is certainly not the first stub template to lack an icon. We are sacrificing immediate identifiability, I know, but in the interest of trying accommodate a number of views. At some point in the future we might conceive of an icon which will manage to address the concerns of everyone. - Severa ( !!!) 01:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone seen this:
Maybe this could be a pic? I have to say I'm not in favour of the abortion word, then I prefer just having no picture at all.-- Steven Fruitsmaak ( Reply) 00:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Probably a terrible idea, but how about: a sylized uterus, like we all saw in high school biology textbooks, with a question mark inside it? I mean very stylized. One problem being how to make it non-medically-graphic but at the same time recognizable. And all this in a small icon. Not being artistically inclined, I won't scupper my suggestion by offering a sample image. jnestorius( talk) 23:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
-- Steven Fruitsmaak | Talk 15:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
There have been some dramatic changes (most of them for the better) over at mifepristone and Depo Provera. However, I have not been able to go over each change with a fine tooth comb, so maybe with the combined efforts by the editors on this project, we may be able to get one or both articles up to GA or FA status, now that we have momentum from a single editor.-- Andrew c 22:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that your project is not listed on the Wikipedia:List of WikiProjects. It might benefit from greater exposure if it were. Badbilltucker 16:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Would it be worthwhile to create an infobox to be used throughout articles in Category:Forms of abortion? This template could provide information such as whether the abortion method is surgical or chemical, in which gestational time frame it is used, when the method first arose and/or when it approximately fell out of favour. Potential risks and the national accessibility and/or legality of various methods are further information which could be quickly conveyed in this format. Is there a formalised protocol for proposing and creating an infobox? Is anyone here familiar with it? - Severa ( !!!) 01:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Protocol at Template:Infobox Birth control seems to be complex and rather technical. I believe that this is not the sort of venture which we should approach without consulting an expert. - Severa ( !!!) 09:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Would it be useful for us to create a sort of "watchlist" for this project? This would include a list of the most vandalism-prone articles — our own take on Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol. It could also feature a "Current disputes" noticeboard where users could post information on active editorial disputes in articles. Hopefully, this would aid in dispute resolution by attracting outside opinions, as well as keeping users abreast of project happenings. - Severa ( !!!) 21:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
There has been an ongoing dispute between User:Cindery and I on Abortion. Now, however, I believe that Cindery has resorted to the use of a sockpuppet account, User:Mumblio. Observe the almost identical caricaturization of East-coast intellectual types on both Cindery's and Mumblio's user pages. Also, see Mumblio's edit history, which largely consists of agreeing with or praising Cindery, aside from a few dabblings in boxing-related topics. I am reminded of our dealings with User:Pro-Lick. However, I am unsure of how to approach the situation. - Severa ( !!!) 08:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
mumblio is his own man, and if you think he takes my side in every argument you have not had a look at my edit history. being nasty to a newbie like mumblio and calling him names is a violation of WP:NPA and WP:DBTN, however. the sad thing is that poor mumblio has barely participated at all in talk:abortion. Mksaksone, Talv, Andrewc, and Umdunno and i all support moving PAS out of the mental health section or at least not using it to frame the section. severa, however, has continually reverted compromise changes against consensus. i think an admin should be involved. Cindery 06:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
in order for the old SNL joke between dan akroyd and jane curtin to be an insult, mumblio would have to think so. [1] regarding your violations of NPA and DBNC--apologize to him yourslef. meanwhile, the real issue is that not only are you disruptively edit warring--against consensus, without any discussion--but have you violated 3RR in the last few hours. you went up to 6. and i'm reporting it, so that hopefully a break will help you get some perspective. Cindery 09:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
no, only you crossed it--6x. (although your last four reverts had more misleading edit summaries--claiming you were doing something other than reverting-- than the first two). you made no attempt to discuss anything--you haven't posted on talkpage all day. you invested your energy instead in personally attacking a new user, and continuing the same reverts you made yesterday. you need to cool off. Cindery 09:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
"Hello, Winhunter. I am willing to admit that I may have crossed the 3RR line in an editorial conflict with Cindery. However, Cindery has also crossed this line, and in addition there is reason to suspect that she may be relying upon a sockpuppet account, or engaging in "meatpuppetry," as defined by WP:SOCK. Please refer to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Abortion. Thank you. -Severa (!!!) 09:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)"
(so much for being "apologetic" that you personally attacked him--or me.)
the abortion page is now protected, with instructions to discuss changes on the talkpage. i think this is a good thing, but that severa should still take some time to cool off--so that she can return to the discussion able to participate instead of WP:OWN ing the page, personally attacking people who disagree with her, and refusing to generate or respect consensus. Cindery 10:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
as we have already established, mumblio is not a sockpuppet or a meatpuppet--he is a new user whom you personally attacked, and continue to personally attack. [2] he made two edits to the abortion article, during a span of time in which the edit history and the talk page grew several pages longer. you and you alone crossed 3RR --6x in only a few hours, with no discussion on the talkpage, during an accuracy dispute. when there was clear consensus for a compromise. cool off, and start thinking about how you can contribute constructively to the article, not how you can wikilawyer your bad faith actions as justified. Cindery 10:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Cindery 11:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I just created a pro-abortion violence article, as has been disccussed off-and-on here for a while, and tagged it with the WP:Abortion tag. Reviews of the article (well, stub), are requested, but, more urgently, does anyone know anything about adding an article to the WP:Abortion category tree? Thanks. -- BCSWowbagger 03:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Gah. Scatterbrained. I could also use some help updated the various See Also sections of the relevant articles. And perhaps the pro-choice article could use a section comparable to the one about anti-abortion violence in the pro-life movement. -- BCSWowbagger 03:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated Category:Abortion and reproductive rights advocacy groups in the United States for renaming as Category:United States pro-choice organizations in order to maintain consistency with the titling of other categories in this project. Please go to the CfD nomination page if you would like to lend your input. - Severa ( !!!) 16:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 00:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
A number of celebrities and politicians have recently been added to both Category:Pro-choice activists and Category:Pro-life activists. Pro-choice and pro-life celebrity categories were deleted in a CfD in November 2005. Similar politician categories were also recently deleted as the result of a a CfD nomination in October 2006. The original intent of the "activist" categories was to create categories into which we could sort articles relating to individuals whose primary claim to notability is or was their involvement in the abortion movement. In light of this, and the both CFDs, should we take action to prevent these two categories from becoming a laundry list of celebrities and politicians? - Severa ( !!!) 21:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Categories were CfD'd. Guess it's back to constantly policing Category:Pro-life activists and Category:Pro-choice activists for inappropriate additions. *sigh* - Severa ( !!!) 03:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I encourage everyone to consider a new name for Parental notification (abortion) over at Talk:Parental notification (abortion). One editor made an out of process move to Parental involvement (abortion), and I reverted that. Let's try to build consensus for a new title before making bold moves. The issue is that this article covers not only parental notification, but also parental consent laws. (also, it seems like the editor made a find and replace in the actual article text to introduce a term that is not the most commonly used term, which I feel violated the naming conventions).-- Andrew c 22:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
User:Piccadilly has created a number of national subcategories under Category:Pro-life activists. However, some of these new categories are redundant, or do not comply with our WikiProject Abortion titling conventions. Please feel free to comment at the renaming nomination I have begun here. - Severa ( !!!) 03:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated Category:Pro-life commentators, which was overlooked in the recent CfD, for deletion in an effort to clean up my error in judgment in creating the new Activist by profession categories. Please feel to comment here. - Severa ( !!!) 04:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Should we become involved in WVWP? We would go through all of the articles within our project and assess their quality. This would help us to determine the strongest articles within our project and those which are still in need of improvement. Perhaps we could break down articles alphabetically in order to avoid concerns of favouritism in review selection. We could also each post a list of articles of which we'd like to opt out of reviewing due to our own in-depth involvement in them. Please let me know your thoughts on this. I am eager to see this project move forward. Thanks. - Severa ( !!!) 10:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Violence in the abortion movement has been home to a number of problematic recent changes. Monitoring and input from other users would be appreciated. - Severa ( !!!) 09:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Abortion and Evangelical Christians has been nominated for deletion. Please see the discussion page to comment. - Severa ( !!!) 03:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)