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[moved to Wikipedia:Don't_include_copies_of_primary_sources ]
Is it fair to say that the collection of pages on the Simpsons, Star Wars, Atlas Shrugged and the like violate convention #7 (on encomia/fan pages). I appreciate that some people consider these books/shows very important, or like them very, very much, but I hardly think that an encyclopedia is the place for such pages. While I think the question of what knowledge is relevant and important enough to warrant inclusion in Wikipedia is a difficult one, I think these pages clearly don't deserve inclusion; if the authors wish to create detailed pages on the Star Wars universe, they are perfectly capable of creating such pages in hundreds of other places around the Web.
Has this been discusssed elsewhere? - Graft 08:21 Jul 25, 2002 (PDT)
While I do believe that significant changes to this page should be discussed first... — Toby 11:09 Sep 24, 2002 (UTC)
On the mailing list, I said I whip up some boiler plate notices asking people to discuss major changes to the policy pages, and then unlock them all, and there were no objections. I'll do that within the next day or so. -- Stephen Gilbert 12:00 Sep 24, 2002 (UTC)
All "List of..." pages annoy me. Like they do many here. However, Wikipedia has the potential of being larger in scope than any previous "encylopedic" (is that a word?) human endeavor. A "list of atheists" can fit here because nobody has to buy this journal, this book, this volume, this collection. Why not let it ride? Let "our" (man, how easily we perceive this as ours) readers read what they want. There is no limitation (someone must be buying the server space for this stuff [damn, that's spooky--will this all expire?]). Why complain? - Arthur 02:07 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
I think "List of" pages are useful, not only as a way to create a link to new articles but to give people some thinking points to start off their own articles. -- Zoe
I'm having a hard time parsing item 2. In the first sentence, I don't think that the part starting with "that" adds anything useful, and it sure is hard to understand. Also, what does "as in the case of biographies" have to do with anything? --GG
Also, item 4 needs some bold. --GG
Anyone notice how 67.122.115.150 has been busy plugging albums and videos in the various "Years in Music" and "Years in Movies" entries on here? I know that there's a statement on how Wikipedia is not meant to be a place for advertising, but methinks we may need to have a more direct and prominent statement, especially concerning things like this. While 67.122.115.150's actions don't exactly violate Wikipedia, they do toe the line and make me wonder if we won't be seeing an increase of subtle advertising tactics like this guy is embarking on. -- Modemac
Wikipedia is not a repository of predictions of what will happen in years to come. (the exception being if such predictions are well-known, such as Nostradamus, Asimov, Jules Verne etc; and even then these should not be intermingled with history articles since they are parts of works of fiction). Should we add a new entry or file under "9: Personal essays"? -- Tarquin 22:16 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)
Indeed. And things like solar and lunar eclipses and "Turkey's entry into the EU due to be reviewed" -- things we're sure or fairly sure will happen. My point was things like "2005: Oil Wars", "2010: aliens land" etc. -- Tarquin 23:46 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC) , Stephen Gilbert 23:32 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)
I agree. Future history is mostly opinion, so the "Personal essays ... personal opinions" already excludes them. Besides, there's an entire other wiki where they would be more appropriate: http://futures.wiki.taoriver.net/ DavidCary 22:09, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Moved from the Village pump:
Since Wikipedia is open to contributions from all comers, what is to prevent its being taken over by commercial interests wishing to promote their products?
Do we have a policy on users who merely spend their time adding weblinks to one company, presumably in an attempt at promotion? For example, user:203.35.82.3 has added lots of e-text external links to the same company - how to handle this? Martin
I'd just like to check. Is being killed by having an aeroplane crash into your office window an "achievement" within the context of wikipedia? Martin
There is discussion about The Cunctator's recent change to this entry on WikiEN-L. I'll try to divert it here. -- Toby 19:46 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)
Meanwhile, Ben Hajioff's exposure is limited to liner notes on a compilation CD. That's not noteworthy. Mind you, I'd put the bar higher than requiring a single article - I'd like to see subjects of articles have a range of sources available, so that we can use all of them to guard against bias and achieve a rounded picture. Martin
It seems to me that even if something's on the summary edit, it should still be on the complete list. This is especially true when the complete list has more detailed explanations. -- Toby 23:53 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC)
National and International(Empty, as of 19 April 2003) are Social and Political boundaries. Whereas, Wikipedia is a Community or Virtual Community. Morality unites Communities whilst Ethics unites Societies. I think that division of the World along the lines of British Political Economy is too Empirical( Empiricism). Am I wrong? afterall Wikipedia:NPOV -- JW
Why have we lost this item:
I should have moved it - sorry. To quote from my edit summary: "rm educational textbook. It's not clear to me what entries, if any, violate this rule". How would an article violate this rule? If an article happens to be a good means of teaching a subject, should we change it to be less useful?
In the case of the knowledge article, what exactly makes larry's text an "educational textbook"? Is it the use of friendly examples, such as the gas station attendent? Are we to remove friendly examples from wikipedia articles? That's only going to make them less inviting to lay readers, and accessibility is an important aim. Is it referring to the reader as "you"? Well, sure I'm happy to consider a policy on use of first and second person, but that's something for the manual of style, not here.
Sure, Wikipedia is not an educational textbook. It is also not a swimming pool. Not seeing any evidence that anyone is mistaking it for an educational textbook, I'd prefer to avoid adding unnecessary points to this page. Martin
I was just reading 1999 Rugby Union World Cup, which is a list of teams, playing times, and results from the 1999 Rugby Union World Cup, and I was thinking, "This doesn't seem even remotely like an encyclopedia article to me. This seems like an almanac entry."
Is Wikipedia an almanac? Do articles that are merely lists of results and compendia of statistics belong in Wikipedia? I'm wondering. I haven't really seen anything that says otherwise, and the almanac/encyclopedia difference in dead-tree media seems mostly to be about updatability -- almanacs are updated frequently, encyclopedias are not.
Anyways, Just wondering. Not really that important, just a noodling idea.
-- ESP 21:01 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I'm not quite satisfied with that. We can do a lot of things, but that doesn't mean we _should_ do them. If, say, word definitions and etymologies don't belong in
Wikipedia, why would almanac-style lists of sports scores and weather reports belong here?
I'm not trying to be contrary; I'd just like more of an explanation.
-- ESP 21:42 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
OK, so, I read Wikipedia:What is an article, and it's right there in the first paragraph: " almanac-like". Sounds good enough to me! -- ESP 02:59 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
So, I'm proposing this:
Why? Because it clarifies what we're doing. I think there's a mistaken assumption that Wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia is a monolithic object coterminous and identical with http://www.wikipedia.org/ . I'm going to add this barring objections. -- ESP 21:32 21 Jul 2003 (UTC)
copied from Talk:Daniel C. Boyer/Archive 2:
While you can find something about everything on Google, Wikipedia should restrict itself to those topics that are actually relevant. And if something is *not even* to be found on Google, then it *certainly* has no place on Wikipedia. Can I add my cat? Is any local town councillor relevant? The local bakery? This is making a mockery out of an encyclopaedia.
See also Talk:Daniel C. Boyer re: issue of Wikipedia:auto-biography
Suggestion: Any time a link in the Wikipedia Main space is saying something about Wikipedia as a whole, actually talking about it as a process, project, product, phenomena, organization, that is, as an EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING, link to Wikipedia:Itself where the policies for doing so are discussed. Any time you are just mentioning it incidentally, without making a claim about it being an example of something, link to Wikipedia. That will keep these quite different uses separate, and let us easily track what claims Wikipedia makes about itself.
(moved to Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia is not a dictionary)
Item #10 on the list greatly annoys me. I have contributed material which was the product of my own research (most of the pinball article; most of the shichi narabe article; the rules to sugoroku; a proof of a special case of Fermat's Little Theorem; some info on adding machines; possibly other stuff which I've forgotten about), and I don't understand why I shouldn't. So... you're saying that I shouldn't write anything which wasn't cribbed from books, magazines, etc.? -- User:Juuitchan
It's perfectly fine to do research for Wikipedia, but not original research. Wikipedians shouldn't do interviews, but rather should report on the interviews of others. Wikipedians shouldn't root through rubbish bins, but rather reporting on the privacy invasions performed by others. Or am I wrong? Martin 20:41, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)
That's right. This maxim was originally invented as a way to shut people up who were writing articles about their idiosyncratic pseudo-scientific theories. But several times recently I've seen people quoting it as a reason not to include perfectly reasonable and useful content. See the confusion about pinball above for one example. As long as verifiability is maintained, it doesn't matter how contributors find out the information they include. Matthew Woodcraft
Probably. Do you thing primary research will be more widely understood? Matthew Woodcraft
In the german Wikipedia a discussion is under way, because some Admins would like to delete "unimportant" film/book articles without discussion. What is the opinion of the english Wikipedia, was it discussed here already? Fantasy 10:13, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Though Wikipedia is a collaborative encyclopaedia, would it be appropriate for researchers in a set of overlapping fields to use it for collating fragmentary information - that is, for *constructing* knowledge rather than for *referencing* knowledge?
My example: I recently discussed setting up a collaborative Wiki for early modern historians to collate information about minor personages in Quattrocento Northern Italy. This kind of information is normally extremely fragmentary, strewn carelessly (by the winds of time) across multiple sources of varying reliability and accessibility - diaries, letters, footnotes, etc. Collaboration would help the community of early modern historians bring together these shards of knowledge into a more complete whole.
However, while this would satisfy some of Wikipedia's objectives and match its collaborative methodology, it would also implicitly contain a content mismatch (typically book references rather than URLs), while also relying on internal completeness to be useful (rather than on summaries plus links).
True, I could easily host it on one of my own (personal) mini-Wikis... but building it directly into Wikipedia would seem to be an inherently better approach. I'm really in two minds about this - what do you think?
Nick Pelling -- Nickpelling 11:55, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Constructing existing knowledge, sure, Wikipedia is collaborative. Just as long as an article looks relatively presentable if someone was to come across it, it should be okay. But constructing new knowledge, probably not, you may want to check Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Thanks Dysprosia 12:00, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Thank you all for your feedback - I held back from adding any pages for precisely the kinds of reason given. However, does anyone know of any existing larger-scale Wikis out there which try to act as a genuinely open and collaborative forum for (what one might call) the "social construction of new knowledge"? I take Phil Boswell's point that it might be a good thing to build in a cross-reference to related Wikipedia articles... though where one should begin and the other should end might be hard to judge in practice.
I suppose what I'm talking about is a kind of "Wikipository"... any suggestions? Nick Pelling -- Nickpelling 19:16, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)~~
This query could be summarized to the FAQ page -- Tarquin 13:22, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Perhaps some of the other sites mentioned on
Wikipedia:Don't_include_copies_of_primary_sources
would be more appropriate.
Can the following points be expanded or removed from the page :
This page can be reformatted to separate out what is allowed in Wikipedia and what is not. I feel the bracket-ization is confusing things. Jay 17:49, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Primary sources aren't allowed. If a Wikipedian does an interview for another purpose, then could that particular Wikipedian use the interview's info in an article on a relevant topic? -- user:zanimum
I have been told that the article "list of words in English which are nouns when accented on first syllable and verbs when accented on second syllable", or something like that, is not a list, or anyway not the kind of list to which item#11 here applies (wikipedia is not a list repository, not a repository of list of items vaguely related). So I don't understand what item#11 means; what kinds of lists does it apply to? Kyk 22:05, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)
How does this relate to images created by a user for an article, particularly artistic impressions of extinct animals with very little extant data (eg. talk:Paranthropus) or modem folk tale animals (eg. talk:Yeti)? - UtherSRG 19:46, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)
(from the village pump)
After coming across Kasia Smutniak, I wondered, "is bust size encyclopedic?" That led me to further questiosn like whether or not weight, height, or eye color of model's should be included in wikipedia articles. Anyone have any feelings about this? Sennheiser ! 15:57, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
[moved to Wikipedia:Don't_include_copies_of_primary_sources ]
Is it fair to say that the collection of pages on the Simpsons, Star Wars, Atlas Shrugged and the like violate convention #7 (on encomia/fan pages). I appreciate that some people consider these books/shows very important, or like them very, very much, but I hardly think that an encyclopedia is the place for such pages. While I think the question of what knowledge is relevant and important enough to warrant inclusion in Wikipedia is a difficult one, I think these pages clearly don't deserve inclusion; if the authors wish to create detailed pages on the Star Wars universe, they are perfectly capable of creating such pages in hundreds of other places around the Web.
Has this been discusssed elsewhere? - Graft 08:21 Jul 25, 2002 (PDT)
While I do believe that significant changes to this page should be discussed first... — Toby 11:09 Sep 24, 2002 (UTC)
On the mailing list, I said I whip up some boiler plate notices asking people to discuss major changes to the policy pages, and then unlock them all, and there were no objections. I'll do that within the next day or so. -- Stephen Gilbert 12:00 Sep 24, 2002 (UTC)
All "List of..." pages annoy me. Like they do many here. However, Wikipedia has the potential of being larger in scope than any previous "encylopedic" (is that a word?) human endeavor. A "list of atheists" can fit here because nobody has to buy this journal, this book, this volume, this collection. Why not let it ride? Let "our" (man, how easily we perceive this as ours) readers read what they want. There is no limitation (someone must be buying the server space for this stuff [damn, that's spooky--will this all expire?]). Why complain? - Arthur 02:07 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
I think "List of" pages are useful, not only as a way to create a link to new articles but to give people some thinking points to start off their own articles. -- Zoe
I'm having a hard time parsing item 2. In the first sentence, I don't think that the part starting with "that" adds anything useful, and it sure is hard to understand. Also, what does "as in the case of biographies" have to do with anything? --GG
Also, item 4 needs some bold. --GG
Anyone notice how 67.122.115.150 has been busy plugging albums and videos in the various "Years in Music" and "Years in Movies" entries on here? I know that there's a statement on how Wikipedia is not meant to be a place for advertising, but methinks we may need to have a more direct and prominent statement, especially concerning things like this. While 67.122.115.150's actions don't exactly violate Wikipedia, they do toe the line and make me wonder if we won't be seeing an increase of subtle advertising tactics like this guy is embarking on. -- Modemac
Wikipedia is not a repository of predictions of what will happen in years to come. (the exception being if such predictions are well-known, such as Nostradamus, Asimov, Jules Verne etc; and even then these should not be intermingled with history articles since they are parts of works of fiction). Should we add a new entry or file under "9: Personal essays"? -- Tarquin 22:16 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)
Indeed. And things like solar and lunar eclipses and "Turkey's entry into the EU due to be reviewed" -- things we're sure or fairly sure will happen. My point was things like "2005: Oil Wars", "2010: aliens land" etc. -- Tarquin 23:46 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC) , Stephen Gilbert 23:32 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)
I agree. Future history is mostly opinion, so the "Personal essays ... personal opinions" already excludes them. Besides, there's an entire other wiki where they would be more appropriate: http://futures.wiki.taoriver.net/ DavidCary 22:09, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Moved from the Village pump:
Since Wikipedia is open to contributions from all comers, what is to prevent its being taken over by commercial interests wishing to promote their products?
Do we have a policy on users who merely spend their time adding weblinks to one company, presumably in an attempt at promotion? For example, user:203.35.82.3 has added lots of e-text external links to the same company - how to handle this? Martin
I'd just like to check. Is being killed by having an aeroplane crash into your office window an "achievement" within the context of wikipedia? Martin
There is discussion about The Cunctator's recent change to this entry on WikiEN-L. I'll try to divert it here. -- Toby 19:46 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)
Meanwhile, Ben Hajioff's exposure is limited to liner notes on a compilation CD. That's not noteworthy. Mind you, I'd put the bar higher than requiring a single article - I'd like to see subjects of articles have a range of sources available, so that we can use all of them to guard against bias and achieve a rounded picture. Martin
It seems to me that even if something's on the summary edit, it should still be on the complete list. This is especially true when the complete list has more detailed explanations. -- Toby 23:53 Mar 10, 2003 (UTC)
National and International(Empty, as of 19 April 2003) are Social and Political boundaries. Whereas, Wikipedia is a Community or Virtual Community. Morality unites Communities whilst Ethics unites Societies. I think that division of the World along the lines of British Political Economy is too Empirical( Empiricism). Am I wrong? afterall Wikipedia:NPOV -- JW
Why have we lost this item:
I should have moved it - sorry. To quote from my edit summary: "rm educational textbook. It's not clear to me what entries, if any, violate this rule". How would an article violate this rule? If an article happens to be a good means of teaching a subject, should we change it to be less useful?
In the case of the knowledge article, what exactly makes larry's text an "educational textbook"? Is it the use of friendly examples, such as the gas station attendent? Are we to remove friendly examples from wikipedia articles? That's only going to make them less inviting to lay readers, and accessibility is an important aim. Is it referring to the reader as "you"? Well, sure I'm happy to consider a policy on use of first and second person, but that's something for the manual of style, not here.
Sure, Wikipedia is not an educational textbook. It is also not a swimming pool. Not seeing any evidence that anyone is mistaking it for an educational textbook, I'd prefer to avoid adding unnecessary points to this page. Martin
I was just reading 1999 Rugby Union World Cup, which is a list of teams, playing times, and results from the 1999 Rugby Union World Cup, and I was thinking, "This doesn't seem even remotely like an encyclopedia article to me. This seems like an almanac entry."
Is Wikipedia an almanac? Do articles that are merely lists of results and compendia of statistics belong in Wikipedia? I'm wondering. I haven't really seen anything that says otherwise, and the almanac/encyclopedia difference in dead-tree media seems mostly to be about updatability -- almanacs are updated frequently, encyclopedias are not.
Anyways, Just wondering. Not really that important, just a noodling idea.
-- ESP 21:01 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I'm not quite satisfied with that. We can do a lot of things, but that doesn't mean we _should_ do them. If, say, word definitions and etymologies don't belong in
Wikipedia, why would almanac-style lists of sports scores and weather reports belong here?
I'm not trying to be contrary; I'd just like more of an explanation.
-- ESP 21:42 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
OK, so, I read Wikipedia:What is an article, and it's right there in the first paragraph: " almanac-like". Sounds good enough to me! -- ESP 02:59 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
So, I'm proposing this:
Why? Because it clarifies what we're doing. I think there's a mistaken assumption that Wikipedia-the-free-encyclopedia is a monolithic object coterminous and identical with http://www.wikipedia.org/ . I'm going to add this barring objections. -- ESP 21:32 21 Jul 2003 (UTC)
copied from Talk:Daniel C. Boyer/Archive 2:
While you can find something about everything on Google, Wikipedia should restrict itself to those topics that are actually relevant. And if something is *not even* to be found on Google, then it *certainly* has no place on Wikipedia. Can I add my cat? Is any local town councillor relevant? The local bakery? This is making a mockery out of an encyclopaedia.
See also Talk:Daniel C. Boyer re: issue of Wikipedia:auto-biography
Suggestion: Any time a link in the Wikipedia Main space is saying something about Wikipedia as a whole, actually talking about it as a process, project, product, phenomena, organization, that is, as an EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING, link to Wikipedia:Itself where the policies for doing so are discussed. Any time you are just mentioning it incidentally, without making a claim about it being an example of something, link to Wikipedia. That will keep these quite different uses separate, and let us easily track what claims Wikipedia makes about itself.
(moved to Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia is not a dictionary)
Item #10 on the list greatly annoys me. I have contributed material which was the product of my own research (most of the pinball article; most of the shichi narabe article; the rules to sugoroku; a proof of a special case of Fermat's Little Theorem; some info on adding machines; possibly other stuff which I've forgotten about), and I don't understand why I shouldn't. So... you're saying that I shouldn't write anything which wasn't cribbed from books, magazines, etc.? -- User:Juuitchan
It's perfectly fine to do research for Wikipedia, but not original research. Wikipedians shouldn't do interviews, but rather should report on the interviews of others. Wikipedians shouldn't root through rubbish bins, but rather reporting on the privacy invasions performed by others. Or am I wrong? Martin 20:41, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)
That's right. This maxim was originally invented as a way to shut people up who were writing articles about their idiosyncratic pseudo-scientific theories. But several times recently I've seen people quoting it as a reason not to include perfectly reasonable and useful content. See the confusion about pinball above for one example. As long as verifiability is maintained, it doesn't matter how contributors find out the information they include. Matthew Woodcraft
Probably. Do you thing primary research will be more widely understood? Matthew Woodcraft
In the german Wikipedia a discussion is under way, because some Admins would like to delete "unimportant" film/book articles without discussion. What is the opinion of the english Wikipedia, was it discussed here already? Fantasy 10:13, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Though Wikipedia is a collaborative encyclopaedia, would it be appropriate for researchers in a set of overlapping fields to use it for collating fragmentary information - that is, for *constructing* knowledge rather than for *referencing* knowledge?
My example: I recently discussed setting up a collaborative Wiki for early modern historians to collate information about minor personages in Quattrocento Northern Italy. This kind of information is normally extremely fragmentary, strewn carelessly (by the winds of time) across multiple sources of varying reliability and accessibility - diaries, letters, footnotes, etc. Collaboration would help the community of early modern historians bring together these shards of knowledge into a more complete whole.
However, while this would satisfy some of Wikipedia's objectives and match its collaborative methodology, it would also implicitly contain a content mismatch (typically book references rather than URLs), while also relying on internal completeness to be useful (rather than on summaries plus links).
True, I could easily host it on one of my own (personal) mini-Wikis... but building it directly into Wikipedia would seem to be an inherently better approach. I'm really in two minds about this - what do you think?
Nick Pelling -- Nickpelling 11:55, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Constructing existing knowledge, sure, Wikipedia is collaborative. Just as long as an article looks relatively presentable if someone was to come across it, it should be okay. But constructing new knowledge, probably not, you may want to check Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Thanks Dysprosia 12:00, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Thank you all for your feedback - I held back from adding any pages for precisely the kinds of reason given. However, does anyone know of any existing larger-scale Wikis out there which try to act as a genuinely open and collaborative forum for (what one might call) the "social construction of new knowledge"? I take Phil Boswell's point that it might be a good thing to build in a cross-reference to related Wikipedia articles... though where one should begin and the other should end might be hard to judge in practice.
I suppose what I'm talking about is a kind of "Wikipository"... any suggestions? Nick Pelling -- Nickpelling 19:16, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)~~
This query could be summarized to the FAQ page -- Tarquin 13:22, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Perhaps some of the other sites mentioned on
Wikipedia:Don't_include_copies_of_primary_sources
would be more appropriate.
Can the following points be expanded or removed from the page :
This page can be reformatted to separate out what is allowed in Wikipedia and what is not. I feel the bracket-ization is confusing things. Jay 17:49, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Primary sources aren't allowed. If a Wikipedian does an interview for another purpose, then could that particular Wikipedian use the interview's info in an article on a relevant topic? -- user:zanimum
I have been told that the article "list of words in English which are nouns when accented on first syllable and verbs when accented on second syllable", or something like that, is not a list, or anyway not the kind of list to which item#11 here applies (wikipedia is not a list repository, not a repository of list of items vaguely related). So I don't understand what item#11 means; what kinds of lists does it apply to? Kyk 22:05, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)
How does this relate to images created by a user for an article, particularly artistic impressions of extinct animals with very little extant data (eg. talk:Paranthropus) or modem folk tale animals (eg. talk:Yeti)? - UtherSRG 19:46, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)
(from the village pump)
After coming across Kasia Smutniak, I wondered, "is bust size encyclopedic?" That led me to further questiosn like whether or not weight, height, or eye color of model's should be included in wikipedia articles. Anyone have any feelings about this? Sennheiser ! 15:57, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)