![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
The Templates for deletion page was nominated for deletion. The result was unanimous keep. -- cesarb 12:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Wrong again. It's so easy to say it, but so false. From a community of nearly a quarter of a million registered users, exactly 19 members voted to keep this page. I nominated it for deletion; 2 members expressed the opinion that VfD has no jurisdiction over this page; and 1 member appeared to express total indifference. This is not unanimity. You might honestly say that a majority of those voting, voted to keep -- a tiny minority of the community, most of whom still do not know how the discussion affects them. — Xiong 熊 talk 22:21, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)
unanimous adj. 1. based on unanimity, complete assent or agreement 2. sharing the same views or opinions, and being in complete harmony or accord [1] (the key word here being "complete")
complete adj. 1. With everything included [2]
Do I have to pull a definition of "everything", or will you concede the point? "Unanimous" is an absolute adjective, like "unique": nothing is "more unique" or "less unique"; it is either unique or it is not. No body of opinion is unanimous if there is any dissent or variety.
I was raised in part by an uncle who literally worshipped Webster's Second Unabridged and the works of William Shakespeare, in that order; I am a professional writer and an obsessive-compulsive who habitually copyedits bound pulp fiction read for pleasure. Perhaps some will still choose to second-guess me, but I shall no longer attempt to win this battle against unarmed opponents. — Xiong 熊 talk * 12:46, 2005 May 1 (UTC)
The page has become so big that it poses serious problems:
We need a solution. Does anyone have a good idea? I'll try out template based embedding for the {{history}} stub. (Thanks, Alphax and Fangz, for the idea!) This will minimize the first two problems, but maybe not #3. Let me know if anyone has a better idea. — Sebastian (talk) 02:41, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
What's needed is for some admins to get work work deleting :). I went ahead and archived a few sections (already deleted or kept), but the button needs to be pushed on some more older votes. -- Netoholic @ 17:31, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
Oy, this page has definitely become very confusing. ;_; - mak o 22:26, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
The page was duplicated accidently at 21:31, 2005 May 17. If you made any votes or comments after then, but before this comment, please make sure that they still appear on the page. Yes, this did go for 9 hours without being discovered :| -- Netoholic @ 07:03, 2005 May 18 (UTC)
There are a number of cases now where templates have been deleted after 1 or even <1 day when they are neither speedy cadidates nor pose a disruption to the functioning of Wikipedia or the editing process. This is not appropriate in my opinion and represents unilateral action on the part of one or more administrators who are, again in my opinion, undermining the credibility of this forum as a place to discuss the merits of templates that some people feel should be deleted.
Am I completely misunderstanding something about the process that this is now acceptable policy? Courtland 02:23, 2005 May 19 (UTC)
Hi all - just got the following note from User:Cesarb on my user talk page, and I must say I tend to agree, but am unsure how to continue - anyone else able to help? I don't think undeleting Template talk:Substub's a good idea, but the discussion should be saved.
Grutness... wha? 01:58, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Okay. I've cleaned up all discussions older than five days, and put them in the /log/deleted or /log/not deleted as appropriate, and stuck them in the holding pen. Two were added back to the top for more discussion. Whew! R adiant _* 08:54, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
My personal opinion from a rather randomly look at articles in the Template namespace is that we are probably nominating about half the number of templates that we should be. I was rather surprised to see the number of nonsense and unused templates that exist. It may be worthwhile to start a more organized effort to help clear out the Template namespace (something on the same lines as the Stub-sorting WikiProject. BlankVerse ∅ 05:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
My comment wasn't only about the one-user-only templates, but was also referring to the other detritus in the template namespace, such as no longer used templates, never used templates, single-article templates, stuff that should have been in another namespace, ad nauseam. [Single-article templates should probably be added to the rules on the WP:TFD page.] BlankVerse ∅ 12:59, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I seem to have somehow missed that BlankVerse wants to redouble our efforts to seek and destroy templates. I agree that single-use-only should be added as reason for deletion, though some are legitimately used. Eliminate voting for userfyable templates and use polite template message to explain. Maybe we could have a section for requesting user templates to be admitted to template space for really useful ones. We need to look out for templates that are substitute only. They are useful without many links to them.-- MarSch 13:43, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
I know several of you are regulars at WP:WSS as well, but those of you who aren't may be daunted intrigued to learn that we've discovered over 70 previously unknown stub templates in the last month. A significant number of these are going to need winnowing, so unless someone works out how to get sfd up and running soon, tfd is likely to be inundated with stub templates.
Grutness...
wha?
14:01, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
— Xiong 熊 talk * 12:09, 2005 May 27 (UTC)
13. Don't forget to assume good faith of other editors who participate in the operation of the TfD process. While some may get off on the thrill of deletion or contribute out of boredom, most are interested in making a useful contribution to the grubby nitty gritty of Wikipedia operation. It's important not to disparage their efforts or impugn their motives just because you might disagree with their honestly-held opinions. -- TenOfAllTrades ( talk/ contrib) 17:41, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
Re: 1) Templates can do harm if they cause confusion - e.g., if they make something sound like policy which isn't.
Re: 2) Templates can be conceptually malformed or vandalistic. You appear to not acknowledge this.
Re: 6) If you don't tag them on their bodies, most people will miss that they're up for deletion
Re: 8) WP:WSS does NOT have deletion priviliges, and all stubs must come here for deletion (note that most stubs are nominated by active WSS members). Depreciated policy stubs must come here for deletion. Category templates should be nominated if the category/ies has been, or is, up for deletion. Templates are the business of TFD.
Re: 9) Pointlessly strong language. "an insult and a slap in the face"? Sheesh. - SoM 18:21, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
After a proposal for a "stub messages for deletion" page was met with generally positive sentiments on the Village Pump, I have written up a draft in my userspace:
Since this infringes on the jurisdiction of this page (Stub messages consist of a template and a category), you might want to leave any comments/praises/flames/general disagreement on the talk page. -- grm_wnr Esc 05:28, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion (WP:SFD) - A process for the deletion of stub templates and stub categories in one go set up by the Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting. This is intended to run alongside CFD and TFD, specifically relating to category:thingy-stubs, and template:thingy-stub. If there are no objections, it will do a test run real soon now. Please comment there, not here. R adiant _* 11:35, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
I was recently quite helped by the simple, stylish, and colourful table used by WP:VFD. In an effort to create a more useful explatory text for nominating Templates for deletion, I have trief to modify it to fit here. Please take a look: User:Ec5618/Laboratory. Its current wording refers to a simple template, Templates:tfd2. -- Ec5618 11:18, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
This is a rather strange bug... if you move Template:foo to wherever (for instance when userfying a template after WP:TFD discussion), Talk:foo is moved along. R adiant _* 08:17, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
First let me say thanks for all the work being done by MarSch in implementing this deletion. THANKS!
I have some concerns about using the avoid meta-templates instruction to eliminate all sub-templates. There is a huge diference in that a meta template (or a template for templates) has the potential to affect a great number of pages should the meta template be edited causing issues with speed and caching, etc. However a sub template (a template only used on a 1-5 templates for my example) does not have this problem because there is no cascading effect that would cause a bunch of cached pages to have to be regenerated (at least no more difference than for a regular template). (see below)
In this case the original creator of the Intro templates was User:Tom- who is 1) a developer and 2) a not frequent but active contributor. This is relevant because presumably a developer would be careful not to create an undue strain on the servers, and he is available for comment quite easily. I think we should ask him to make sure that in deleting them we are considering all of the reasons that they were created in the first place.
Finally, the vote was 2-1 to delete (3-1 if you include the proposer). I unfortunately missed this template being proposed for deletion, as I don't monitor, but would have voted no unless we got input from the original designer. I think we should be a little more careful in deleting when the consensus is so shaky. Trödel| talk 16:07, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
All the most nasty issues with meta templates are remedied by not editing them; ever. This seems to be a good compromise until a more adequate technical solution is found (master templates are a standard part of web page design and it would be absurd to deny our use of that). And there is nothing special about meta templates ; all popular templates have the same cache invalidation issues when edited. The only real difference is that meta template increase the potential number of templates via nesting. -- mav 22:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Why is relisting a Template acceptable? I have seen several comments that a template should not be relisted, but I occasionally see one relisted. If there is not enough interest to have voters vote to delete it should be kept and if some think it really needs to be deleted, listed again after sufficient time has passed. I removed the relisting of Template:Otheruses5 and it got put back pretty quickly. Am I out of touch re this issue? Trödel| talk 22:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure, maybe it's just me, but does anybody else find the holding cell to be a useless step in the TFD process? What's the real purpose of having it there? As an admin, I really don't feel comfortable just blindly deleting things that are in there. I have to go through the logs, and find whatever templates were listed there. Then, I have to read the votes to make sure that I'm not making the wrong decision.
Additionally, there are often templates in the holding cell that have not yet been depopulated. I have to make sure this is done also. So if I still have to check all these things, what's the real purpose of the holding cell? I see some templates being logged after having 1-2 votes. The way I see it, the holding cell only stops people from voting after a strict 7-day limit. Is there really any harm if a template is listed for 10 days just to make sure that a clear consensus has been established? I find that the holding cell simply stops the voting procedure prematurely. I think that templates should go straight from TFD to the log, and they should only be logged after they've been deleted.
If you go through the logs, I think that you'll find that a great deal of the templates logged as deleted actually still exist. I therefore see little reason to believe that the holding cell leads to faster decisions. If there's no admin available to delete it, then why not just leave it on TFD for a day or two? It'll allow more people to vote rather than closing this window of opportunity when there's no harm in keeping it open (besides TFD getting large, but that can be resolved just like it has previously). - Frazzydee| ✍ 03:48, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I know I have been vocal opposing a few of the recent deletions lately, (and caused them extra work) but I wanted to make sure I publically thanked User:Radiant! and User:MarSch for all the work they are doing to find rarely used templates, process them, and keep this page in a readable shape.
As I have read more about the particular templates I care about, I have seen so much evidence of their dedication to a thankless job and good work. Furthermore, my objection to a couple of things and silence on the many good things you both are doing doesn't reflect my actual gratitude for wikipedians like you that are willing to do the "heavy lifting" and time consuming tasks that needs doing and generally aren't enough people to do them.
So, THANKS to both of you for keeping Wikipedia running smoothly and for helping "take out the trash" regularly in cleaning up forgotten, unused, archived and duplicate templates.
Thanks also to the admins who do alot of the actual deletions: User:Ugen64, User:Frazzydee, User:Grutness, and I am sure I am missing others - User:Netoholic thanks to all!
Now back to your regularly scheduled controversies :) Trödel| talk 13:51, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I think orphaning should mean, removing from articles. But outside articles templates may also be transcluded, but are mostly just linked to, which shouldn't come as a surprise, since most templates are meant to be used in articlespace. I don't think links to dead templates should be removed. Am I wrong? -- MarSch 14:20, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I've switched to transcluding the header (even though it's slightly more expensive computationally for the servers) because it's relatively lengthy, and we're using a lot of disk space including it in every version of this heavily-modified page. (A complete copy of the page is made every time an edit is done, no matter how minor.) Since disk space is one of the resources we are struggling with, it seemed like a good tradeoff to use a little more of other resources to cut down the amount of disk space used. Noel (talk) 16:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Please take a look at a proposal at User:MarSch/deleteproposal for changing the deletion process. -- MarSch 14:24, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
WP:SFD is now up and running. I'm adding a template box to the tfd and cfd pages to keep people here informed of what's going on over there (whether this continues or not will mainly depend on how well sfd runs). Grutness... wha? 00:31, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Why was this tempalte not deleted? I count 4d and 2k. Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/June_2005#Template:Otheruses5 -- MarSch 01:07, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What happened to the "history" template? It's OK that it's gone – I had posted it on TfD myself in May, but I can see no decision to delete. Now I'm wondering
Sebastian (talk) 15:55, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)
This page was duplicated onto itself, so I deleted the redundant half. If you voted in the past couple of hours, please double-check that your comments are still there. R adiant _>|< 19:53, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
This is a very minor & probably nitpicky thing, but I don't think that we should have those quick "6d 3k" type tallies in the holding cell. It just encourages people to delete the template without reading the discussion. Admins should be reading the entire discussion and getting a feel for consensus rather than jumping to conclusions and voting primarily based on the tallies.
I know it's a tiny thing, but I think that the tallies do more harm than good, and shouldn't be used. Besides, admins would have to double-check them anyways. - Frazzydee| ✍ 23:11, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to facilitate substitution by making it possible to say {{s:sometemplate}}?-- MarSch 13:58, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Given recent series of template forks (in particular, people who created a smaller version of, say, Template:Npov because they didn't like the original's layout) would it be worthwhile to make those speedily deletable? And if so, by what wording? I've heard the suggestion a couple of times, so some feedback would be useful. R adiant _>|< 18:18, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC) (what on earth happened to my ~ key...)
I have the feeling we're talking past each other. I was talking about the message you see when you visit a {{ redlink}} (blasted) I mean a {{ link that is red}} in the template namespace. I think it is essentially the same as for the article namespace, but most of that stuff is irrelevant for templates. It should say not to create forks and to create experimental templates in userspace. I'm not sure what you want with the links you mentioned though -- MarSch 12:00, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm a bit stuck on what to do with {{ Copyrightproblem}}. Although there was clearly consensus to delete it, the first two votes were made based on the assumption that it would be used instead of {{ copyvio}}. Besides those two votes, the only other vote was to userfy the template. Does anybody else see themselves using this template? There seems to be little harm in keeping it, but if it's only used by one person then maybe it should be userfied. - Frazzydee| ✍ 23:49, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
The Templates for deletion page was nominated for deletion. The result was unanimous keep. -- cesarb 12:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Wrong again. It's so easy to say it, but so false. From a community of nearly a quarter of a million registered users, exactly 19 members voted to keep this page. I nominated it for deletion; 2 members expressed the opinion that VfD has no jurisdiction over this page; and 1 member appeared to express total indifference. This is not unanimity. You might honestly say that a majority of those voting, voted to keep -- a tiny minority of the community, most of whom still do not know how the discussion affects them. — Xiong 熊 talk 22:21, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)
unanimous adj. 1. based on unanimity, complete assent or agreement 2. sharing the same views or opinions, and being in complete harmony or accord [1] (the key word here being "complete")
complete adj. 1. With everything included [2]
Do I have to pull a definition of "everything", or will you concede the point? "Unanimous" is an absolute adjective, like "unique": nothing is "more unique" or "less unique"; it is either unique or it is not. No body of opinion is unanimous if there is any dissent or variety.
I was raised in part by an uncle who literally worshipped Webster's Second Unabridged and the works of William Shakespeare, in that order; I am a professional writer and an obsessive-compulsive who habitually copyedits bound pulp fiction read for pleasure. Perhaps some will still choose to second-guess me, but I shall no longer attempt to win this battle against unarmed opponents. — Xiong 熊 talk * 12:46, 2005 May 1 (UTC)
The page has become so big that it poses serious problems:
We need a solution. Does anyone have a good idea? I'll try out template based embedding for the {{history}} stub. (Thanks, Alphax and Fangz, for the idea!) This will minimize the first two problems, but maybe not #3. Let me know if anyone has a better idea. — Sebastian (talk) 02:41, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
What's needed is for some admins to get work work deleting :). I went ahead and archived a few sections (already deleted or kept), but the button needs to be pushed on some more older votes. -- Netoholic @ 17:31, 2005 May 14 (UTC)
Oy, this page has definitely become very confusing. ;_; - mak o 22:26, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
The page was duplicated accidently at 21:31, 2005 May 17. If you made any votes or comments after then, but before this comment, please make sure that they still appear on the page. Yes, this did go for 9 hours without being discovered :| -- Netoholic @ 07:03, 2005 May 18 (UTC)
There are a number of cases now where templates have been deleted after 1 or even <1 day when they are neither speedy cadidates nor pose a disruption to the functioning of Wikipedia or the editing process. This is not appropriate in my opinion and represents unilateral action on the part of one or more administrators who are, again in my opinion, undermining the credibility of this forum as a place to discuss the merits of templates that some people feel should be deleted.
Am I completely misunderstanding something about the process that this is now acceptable policy? Courtland 02:23, 2005 May 19 (UTC)
Hi all - just got the following note from User:Cesarb on my user talk page, and I must say I tend to agree, but am unsure how to continue - anyone else able to help? I don't think undeleting Template talk:Substub's a good idea, but the discussion should be saved.
Grutness... wha? 01:58, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Okay. I've cleaned up all discussions older than five days, and put them in the /log/deleted or /log/not deleted as appropriate, and stuck them in the holding pen. Two were added back to the top for more discussion. Whew! R adiant _* 08:54, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
My personal opinion from a rather randomly look at articles in the Template namespace is that we are probably nominating about half the number of templates that we should be. I was rather surprised to see the number of nonsense and unused templates that exist. It may be worthwhile to start a more organized effort to help clear out the Template namespace (something on the same lines as the Stub-sorting WikiProject. BlankVerse ∅ 05:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
My comment wasn't only about the one-user-only templates, but was also referring to the other detritus in the template namespace, such as no longer used templates, never used templates, single-article templates, stuff that should have been in another namespace, ad nauseam. [Single-article templates should probably be added to the rules on the WP:TFD page.] BlankVerse ∅ 12:59, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I seem to have somehow missed that BlankVerse wants to redouble our efforts to seek and destroy templates. I agree that single-use-only should be added as reason for deletion, though some are legitimately used. Eliminate voting for userfyable templates and use polite template message to explain. Maybe we could have a section for requesting user templates to be admitted to template space for really useful ones. We need to look out for templates that are substitute only. They are useful without many links to them.-- MarSch 13:43, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
I know several of you are regulars at WP:WSS as well, but those of you who aren't may be daunted intrigued to learn that we've discovered over 70 previously unknown stub templates in the last month. A significant number of these are going to need winnowing, so unless someone works out how to get sfd up and running soon, tfd is likely to be inundated with stub templates.
Grutness...
wha?
14:01, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
— Xiong 熊 talk * 12:09, 2005 May 27 (UTC)
13. Don't forget to assume good faith of other editors who participate in the operation of the TfD process. While some may get off on the thrill of deletion or contribute out of boredom, most are interested in making a useful contribution to the grubby nitty gritty of Wikipedia operation. It's important not to disparage their efforts or impugn their motives just because you might disagree with their honestly-held opinions. -- TenOfAllTrades ( talk/ contrib) 17:41, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
Re: 1) Templates can do harm if they cause confusion - e.g., if they make something sound like policy which isn't.
Re: 2) Templates can be conceptually malformed or vandalistic. You appear to not acknowledge this.
Re: 6) If you don't tag them on their bodies, most people will miss that they're up for deletion
Re: 8) WP:WSS does NOT have deletion priviliges, and all stubs must come here for deletion (note that most stubs are nominated by active WSS members). Depreciated policy stubs must come here for deletion. Category templates should be nominated if the category/ies has been, or is, up for deletion. Templates are the business of TFD.
Re: 9) Pointlessly strong language. "an insult and a slap in the face"? Sheesh. - SoM 18:21, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
After a proposal for a "stub messages for deletion" page was met with generally positive sentiments on the Village Pump, I have written up a draft in my userspace:
Since this infringes on the jurisdiction of this page (Stub messages consist of a template and a category), you might want to leave any comments/praises/flames/general disagreement on the talk page. -- grm_wnr Esc 05:28, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion (WP:SFD) - A process for the deletion of stub templates and stub categories in one go set up by the Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting. This is intended to run alongside CFD and TFD, specifically relating to category:thingy-stubs, and template:thingy-stub. If there are no objections, it will do a test run real soon now. Please comment there, not here. R adiant _* 11:35, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
I was recently quite helped by the simple, stylish, and colourful table used by WP:VFD. In an effort to create a more useful explatory text for nominating Templates for deletion, I have trief to modify it to fit here. Please take a look: User:Ec5618/Laboratory. Its current wording refers to a simple template, Templates:tfd2. -- Ec5618 11:18, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
This is a rather strange bug... if you move Template:foo to wherever (for instance when userfying a template after WP:TFD discussion), Talk:foo is moved along. R adiant _* 08:17, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
First let me say thanks for all the work being done by MarSch in implementing this deletion. THANKS!
I have some concerns about using the avoid meta-templates instruction to eliminate all sub-templates. There is a huge diference in that a meta template (or a template for templates) has the potential to affect a great number of pages should the meta template be edited causing issues with speed and caching, etc. However a sub template (a template only used on a 1-5 templates for my example) does not have this problem because there is no cascading effect that would cause a bunch of cached pages to have to be regenerated (at least no more difference than for a regular template). (see below)
In this case the original creator of the Intro templates was User:Tom- who is 1) a developer and 2) a not frequent but active contributor. This is relevant because presumably a developer would be careful not to create an undue strain on the servers, and he is available for comment quite easily. I think we should ask him to make sure that in deleting them we are considering all of the reasons that they were created in the first place.
Finally, the vote was 2-1 to delete (3-1 if you include the proposer). I unfortunately missed this template being proposed for deletion, as I don't monitor, but would have voted no unless we got input from the original designer. I think we should be a little more careful in deleting when the consensus is so shaky. Trödel| talk 16:07, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
All the most nasty issues with meta templates are remedied by not editing them; ever. This seems to be a good compromise until a more adequate technical solution is found (master templates are a standard part of web page design and it would be absurd to deny our use of that). And there is nothing special about meta templates ; all popular templates have the same cache invalidation issues when edited. The only real difference is that meta template increase the potential number of templates via nesting. -- mav 22:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Why is relisting a Template acceptable? I have seen several comments that a template should not be relisted, but I occasionally see one relisted. If there is not enough interest to have voters vote to delete it should be kept and if some think it really needs to be deleted, listed again after sufficient time has passed. I removed the relisting of Template:Otheruses5 and it got put back pretty quickly. Am I out of touch re this issue? Trödel| talk 22:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure, maybe it's just me, but does anybody else find the holding cell to be a useless step in the TFD process? What's the real purpose of having it there? As an admin, I really don't feel comfortable just blindly deleting things that are in there. I have to go through the logs, and find whatever templates were listed there. Then, I have to read the votes to make sure that I'm not making the wrong decision.
Additionally, there are often templates in the holding cell that have not yet been depopulated. I have to make sure this is done also. So if I still have to check all these things, what's the real purpose of the holding cell? I see some templates being logged after having 1-2 votes. The way I see it, the holding cell only stops people from voting after a strict 7-day limit. Is there really any harm if a template is listed for 10 days just to make sure that a clear consensus has been established? I find that the holding cell simply stops the voting procedure prematurely. I think that templates should go straight from TFD to the log, and they should only be logged after they've been deleted.
If you go through the logs, I think that you'll find that a great deal of the templates logged as deleted actually still exist. I therefore see little reason to believe that the holding cell leads to faster decisions. If there's no admin available to delete it, then why not just leave it on TFD for a day or two? It'll allow more people to vote rather than closing this window of opportunity when there's no harm in keeping it open (besides TFD getting large, but that can be resolved just like it has previously). - Frazzydee| ✍ 03:48, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I know I have been vocal opposing a few of the recent deletions lately, (and caused them extra work) but I wanted to make sure I publically thanked User:Radiant! and User:MarSch for all the work they are doing to find rarely used templates, process them, and keep this page in a readable shape.
As I have read more about the particular templates I care about, I have seen so much evidence of their dedication to a thankless job and good work. Furthermore, my objection to a couple of things and silence on the many good things you both are doing doesn't reflect my actual gratitude for wikipedians like you that are willing to do the "heavy lifting" and time consuming tasks that needs doing and generally aren't enough people to do them.
So, THANKS to both of you for keeping Wikipedia running smoothly and for helping "take out the trash" regularly in cleaning up forgotten, unused, archived and duplicate templates.
Thanks also to the admins who do alot of the actual deletions: User:Ugen64, User:Frazzydee, User:Grutness, and I am sure I am missing others - User:Netoholic thanks to all!
Now back to your regularly scheduled controversies :) Trödel| talk 13:51, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I think orphaning should mean, removing from articles. But outside articles templates may also be transcluded, but are mostly just linked to, which shouldn't come as a surprise, since most templates are meant to be used in articlespace. I don't think links to dead templates should be removed. Am I wrong? -- MarSch 14:20, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I've switched to transcluding the header (even though it's slightly more expensive computationally for the servers) because it's relatively lengthy, and we're using a lot of disk space including it in every version of this heavily-modified page. (A complete copy of the page is made every time an edit is done, no matter how minor.) Since disk space is one of the resources we are struggling with, it seemed like a good tradeoff to use a little more of other resources to cut down the amount of disk space used. Noel (talk) 16:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Please take a look at a proposal at User:MarSch/deleteproposal for changing the deletion process. -- MarSch 14:24, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
WP:SFD is now up and running. I'm adding a template box to the tfd and cfd pages to keep people here informed of what's going on over there (whether this continues or not will mainly depend on how well sfd runs). Grutness... wha? 00:31, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Why was this tempalte not deleted? I count 4d and 2k. Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/June_2005#Template:Otheruses5 -- MarSch 01:07, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What happened to the "history" template? It's OK that it's gone – I had posted it on TfD myself in May, but I can see no decision to delete. Now I'm wondering
Sebastian (talk) 15:55, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)
This page was duplicated onto itself, so I deleted the redundant half. If you voted in the past couple of hours, please double-check that your comments are still there. R adiant _>|< 19:53, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
This is a very minor & probably nitpicky thing, but I don't think that we should have those quick "6d 3k" type tallies in the holding cell. It just encourages people to delete the template without reading the discussion. Admins should be reading the entire discussion and getting a feel for consensus rather than jumping to conclusions and voting primarily based on the tallies.
I know it's a tiny thing, but I think that the tallies do more harm than good, and shouldn't be used. Besides, admins would have to double-check them anyways. - Frazzydee| ✍ 23:11, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to facilitate substitution by making it possible to say {{s:sometemplate}}?-- MarSch 13:58, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Given recent series of template forks (in particular, people who created a smaller version of, say, Template:Npov because they didn't like the original's layout) would it be worthwhile to make those speedily deletable? And if so, by what wording? I've heard the suggestion a couple of times, so some feedback would be useful. R adiant _>|< 18:18, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC) (what on earth happened to my ~ key...)
I have the feeling we're talking past each other. I was talking about the message you see when you visit a {{ redlink}} (blasted) I mean a {{ link that is red}} in the template namespace. I think it is essentially the same as for the article namespace, but most of that stuff is irrelevant for templates. It should say not to create forks and to create experimental templates in userspace. I'm not sure what you want with the links you mentioned though -- MarSch 12:00, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm a bit stuck on what to do with {{ Copyrightproblem}}. Although there was clearly consensus to delete it, the first two votes were made based on the assumption that it would be used instead of {{ copyvio}}. Besides those two votes, the only other vote was to userfy the template. Does anybody else see themselves using this template? There seems to be little harm in keeping it, but if it's only used by one person then maybe it should be userfied. - Frazzydee| ✍ 23:49, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)