JackO'Lantern 06:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States&limit=500&action=history
(I just played with the syntax, this Barbara's got her head on straight--funny she's Polish)"
More (much, much more) to follow. Camillus (talk) 20:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Irish-Scots&action=history
Shows that "Brandubh Blathmac" and 216.194.2.210 are one and the same, edits/edit summaries completely consistent with Rms. Note also, from "Brandubh Blathmac's contributions, the same interest in "Irish catholics" and actors/actresses (an area where Rms has added useful edits), and particularly Catholic actors/actresses. Camillus (talk)
I've never commented in an RFC before, so I thought I'd put my comments here, as I'm not entirely sure what the procedure is for putting them in the main RFC. I have never been in an actualy conflict with the user, but have noticed his frequent disruption peripherally, and while he has made many good contributions, I'm sure he uses multiple IP addresses and accounts as sockpuppets when things aren't going the way he likes. I tagged one IP address ( 24.136.99.194) as a possible sockpuppet with the identical edit summaries seen here and here. I was drawn to this RFC after reverting these changes by Brandubh Blathmac to the James Joyce article which are very similar to changes I reverted back in February by Rms125a@hotmail.com, with odd paragraph breaks and changing novel title emphasis from italics to bolding. It seems to me that the user often doesn't even try to hide his identity when editing from IP addresses, and I grant that you don't have to be logged in to edit Wikipedia, but I've noticed in some cases the reason for not logging in is to evade a block. - dharm a bum 22:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
If these anonymous IP addresses are nothing to do with Rms (as he maintains), then why do they vandalize the same pages in exactly the same way (" Croat whores edit related to Bleiburg massacre by User:Aisling O'Cuiv; Rms admits making the same edit here). Why do they sign his name to their edits? Why do they share the same obssessions about Michael Cusack and the Bleiburg Massacre? Why do they use the same turn of phrase about "Catholic censors"? Why do they refer to edits made by Rms as edits made by themselves? Why do their edits contain the same idiosyncrasies as his ( random bolding of phrases, reversing dates, adding Category:Roman Catholics to people who are not notable for their Catholicism)? He even betrays himself in his response to this RfC -- when he talks of "censors" and "fifth columns" -- now where else have we seen those particular words used? I'm positive that a CheckUser request would confirm it, but I think everyone already knows what's going on here. Demiurge 23:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
These two charming posts clearly link 216.194.3.172 and "Brandubh Blathmac" with Mr. Seiger:
Notice the pattern - fifth columnist/censor used by Robert Seiger in his response...
Notice, if you can be bothered, that in the second one, though I direct my comments directly to "Robert", "Brandubh Blathmac" makes no attempt to deny he is Rms. If you really can be bothered, I've moved all of Rms's many sock-messages to User_talk:CPMcE/Robert's Abuse Page, where you'll see the same "Brandubh" pretending to be an "Oirish Catholic", with no knowledge of "Robert", and suggesting that maybe I'm secretly in love with "Robert" - which of course, hurt me to the quick.
Let's get this tied up as soon as, so we can all get back to the real job, and stop Mr. Seiger wasting all our times, and WP resources. Camillus (talk) 02:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Even more evidence: "he carries censorship in his very DNA, and it is always his first instinct" by Brandubh Blathmac vs. "It is Demiurge who is the censor; it is his DNA and his every instinct" by Rms125a@hotmail.com. Demiurge 17:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
After User:McTrumpet added his comment, I, ( User:CPMcE) added the following comment, and then struck it out as I had no evidence for the suspicion stated:
Comment I'm sorry, but I have to point out that the above user has practically no edit history ( see here), starting just tonight, immediately after the latest "sock-puppet" of Rms disappeared, with unsolicited comments on my talk page, "attacking" Rms and another editor I had a dispute with. I apologise in advance if I am adding 2+2 and getting 5, but I, er, "smell a rat".... Camillus (talk) 00:12, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
McTrumpet replied:
Camillus, I've already addresses this on my talk page. Kindly respond there instead of going around Wikipedia spreading malicious rumours about users.
Your behavour is in clear breach of this Wikipedia policy : Wikipedia:No personal attacks
Kindly confirm that you will cease and desist immediately, or provide evidence to the contary.
-- McTrumpet 00:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
MrTrumpet has now created a user page, which I'm afraid amounts to a personal attack on me - re-stating that I am still going round Wikipedia "spreading malicious lies and rumours" about him. I fail to see how one comment on one other article expressing a suspicion amounts to "going around Wikipedia spreading malicious rumours".
If you haven't already died of boredom, please take a look at User_talk:McTrumpet, were I explain why I had my suspicion, and User:McTrumpet. Camillus (talk) 01:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I second that motion. It shows fully how
User:CPMcE has taken it upon themselves to launch a personal attack against myself, insinuating that I engage in vanadlism, anonymous edits, and how I am a sock puppet. --
McTrumpet
01:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
A sample :
at 23:58, User:CPMcE wrote : "I suspected you of being "somebody else", ie. a notorious vandal trying to disguise himself"
at 00:12, 29 March 2006 User:CPMcE wrote : "I'm sorry, but I have to point out that the above user has practically no edit history (see here), starting just tonight, immediately after the latest "sock-puppet" of Rms disappeared, with unsolicited comments on my talk page, "attacking" Rms and another editor I had a dispute with. I apologise in advance if I am adding 2+2 and getting 5, but I, er, "smell a rat".... User:CPMcE"
00:22, 29 March 2006, User:CPMcE wrote : "Perhaps you have been editing anonymously before tonight"
-- McTrumpet 01:45, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Forgot this one :
"I strongly suspect it's Mr.Seeger up to his old tricks. What a bore. Camillus (talk) 23:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)" -- McTrumpet 01:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
No! I'm the alleged sock puppet! -- McTrumpet 02:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Errr, dude! We're Scottish. We don't have anything better to do.
Clean it up by all means dude.
(I don't have to do it myself do I?) -- McTrumpet 02:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I've changed my mind. I want that last statement by Camillus exactly to be kept where it is.
I'm going to see if theres some sort of dispute resolution policy in place for this.
I'm not having Wikipedia users making personal attacks on me like this.
-- McTrumpet 02:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I've listed the page on
Wikipedia:Third opinion .--
McTrumpet
02:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
This page was listed on Wikipedia:Third Opinion, but I can frankly see no reason why. If you two don't like each other, that's entirely your business. Is there a dispute about an article somewhere here? Fagstein 04:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Fagstein, it was listed on
Wikipedia:Third Opinion because I seek external opinion on the acceptability of the conduct of user
User:CPMcE
They have alleged that I :
1 : Vandalise Wikipedia 2 : Make Anonymous posts 3 : Act as a sock puppet for, at various times, "Rms", "Mr Seeger" and/or "Mr Seeker". 4 : I spread "vile propoganda" 5 : My actions are in breach of have breached Wikipedia:No personal attacks
I have asked User:CPMcE to stop spreading unfounded lies and rumours.
I have also asked User:CPMcE to provide any sort of evidence which they may have to justify these statements against myself.
User:CPMcE has failed to provide a single piece of material which would point to any impropriety whatsoever on my part. Their actions are without reason, logic, nor do they have any basis in fact.
Furthermore, they continue to make these unfounded claims, despite acknowledging that they are unable to provide any sort of back up for their statements at all.
Personally, I do not feel that User:CPMcE has acted within the policies of Wikipedia, and I seek the opinions of third parties on that.
That is why I placed it in [[ Wikipedia:Third Opinion]].
-- 82.9.50.32 11:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
(Why does the preview show my ip? What happened to my username? Have I been banned or what?)
Fagstein, I noticed that you moved the original listing on
Wikipedia:Third Opinion to somewhere else called, 'Active Disagreements'. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find that page on Wikipedia. Don't suppose theres any chance you could provide a link?
I've just found this page : Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct and I think that it might well be the most appropriate venue this discussion. -- 82.9.50.32 11:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Following on from this RfC, I've opened a Request for Arbitration which can be found here. Demiurge 15:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
See
this edit in which I put the recommendation to the administrators, who have the power to implement it. I am not closing the application for arbitration just yet, just in case the community decides not to take the recommended action. --
Tony Sidaway
13:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
JackO'Lantern 06:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States&limit=500&action=history
(I just played with the syntax, this Barbara's got her head on straight--funny she's Polish)"
More (much, much more) to follow. Camillus (talk) 20:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Irish-Scots&action=history
Shows that "Brandubh Blathmac" and 216.194.2.210 are one and the same, edits/edit summaries completely consistent with Rms. Note also, from "Brandubh Blathmac's contributions, the same interest in "Irish catholics" and actors/actresses (an area where Rms has added useful edits), and particularly Catholic actors/actresses. Camillus (talk)
I've never commented in an RFC before, so I thought I'd put my comments here, as I'm not entirely sure what the procedure is for putting them in the main RFC. I have never been in an actualy conflict with the user, but have noticed his frequent disruption peripherally, and while he has made many good contributions, I'm sure he uses multiple IP addresses and accounts as sockpuppets when things aren't going the way he likes. I tagged one IP address ( 24.136.99.194) as a possible sockpuppet with the identical edit summaries seen here and here. I was drawn to this RFC after reverting these changes by Brandubh Blathmac to the James Joyce article which are very similar to changes I reverted back in February by Rms125a@hotmail.com, with odd paragraph breaks and changing novel title emphasis from italics to bolding. It seems to me that the user often doesn't even try to hide his identity when editing from IP addresses, and I grant that you don't have to be logged in to edit Wikipedia, but I've noticed in some cases the reason for not logging in is to evade a block. - dharm a bum 22:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
If these anonymous IP addresses are nothing to do with Rms (as he maintains), then why do they vandalize the same pages in exactly the same way (" Croat whores edit related to Bleiburg massacre by User:Aisling O'Cuiv; Rms admits making the same edit here). Why do they sign his name to their edits? Why do they share the same obssessions about Michael Cusack and the Bleiburg Massacre? Why do they use the same turn of phrase about "Catholic censors"? Why do they refer to edits made by Rms as edits made by themselves? Why do their edits contain the same idiosyncrasies as his ( random bolding of phrases, reversing dates, adding Category:Roman Catholics to people who are not notable for their Catholicism)? He even betrays himself in his response to this RfC -- when he talks of "censors" and "fifth columns" -- now where else have we seen those particular words used? I'm positive that a CheckUser request would confirm it, but I think everyone already knows what's going on here. Demiurge 23:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
These two charming posts clearly link 216.194.3.172 and "Brandubh Blathmac" with Mr. Seiger:
Notice the pattern - fifth columnist/censor used by Robert Seiger in his response...
Notice, if you can be bothered, that in the second one, though I direct my comments directly to "Robert", "Brandubh Blathmac" makes no attempt to deny he is Rms. If you really can be bothered, I've moved all of Rms's many sock-messages to User_talk:CPMcE/Robert's Abuse Page, where you'll see the same "Brandubh" pretending to be an "Oirish Catholic", with no knowledge of "Robert", and suggesting that maybe I'm secretly in love with "Robert" - which of course, hurt me to the quick.
Let's get this tied up as soon as, so we can all get back to the real job, and stop Mr. Seiger wasting all our times, and WP resources. Camillus (talk) 02:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Even more evidence: "he carries censorship in his very DNA, and it is always his first instinct" by Brandubh Blathmac vs. "It is Demiurge who is the censor; it is his DNA and his every instinct" by Rms125a@hotmail.com. Demiurge 17:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
After User:McTrumpet added his comment, I, ( User:CPMcE) added the following comment, and then struck it out as I had no evidence for the suspicion stated:
Comment I'm sorry, but I have to point out that the above user has practically no edit history ( see here), starting just tonight, immediately after the latest "sock-puppet" of Rms disappeared, with unsolicited comments on my talk page, "attacking" Rms and another editor I had a dispute with. I apologise in advance if I am adding 2+2 and getting 5, but I, er, "smell a rat".... Camillus (talk) 00:12, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
McTrumpet replied:
Camillus, I've already addresses this on my talk page. Kindly respond there instead of going around Wikipedia spreading malicious rumours about users.
Your behavour is in clear breach of this Wikipedia policy : Wikipedia:No personal attacks
Kindly confirm that you will cease and desist immediately, or provide evidence to the contary.
-- McTrumpet 00:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
MrTrumpet has now created a user page, which I'm afraid amounts to a personal attack on me - re-stating that I am still going round Wikipedia "spreading malicious lies and rumours" about him. I fail to see how one comment on one other article expressing a suspicion amounts to "going around Wikipedia spreading malicious rumours".
If you haven't already died of boredom, please take a look at User_talk:McTrumpet, were I explain why I had my suspicion, and User:McTrumpet. Camillus (talk) 01:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I second that motion. It shows fully how
User:CPMcE has taken it upon themselves to launch a personal attack against myself, insinuating that I engage in vanadlism, anonymous edits, and how I am a sock puppet. --
McTrumpet
01:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
A sample :
at 23:58, User:CPMcE wrote : "I suspected you of being "somebody else", ie. a notorious vandal trying to disguise himself"
at 00:12, 29 March 2006 User:CPMcE wrote : "I'm sorry, but I have to point out that the above user has practically no edit history (see here), starting just tonight, immediately after the latest "sock-puppet" of Rms disappeared, with unsolicited comments on my talk page, "attacking" Rms and another editor I had a dispute with. I apologise in advance if I am adding 2+2 and getting 5, but I, er, "smell a rat".... User:CPMcE"
00:22, 29 March 2006, User:CPMcE wrote : "Perhaps you have been editing anonymously before tonight"
-- McTrumpet 01:45, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Forgot this one :
"I strongly suspect it's Mr.Seeger up to his old tricks. What a bore. Camillus (talk) 23:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)" -- McTrumpet 01:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
No! I'm the alleged sock puppet! -- McTrumpet 02:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Errr, dude! We're Scottish. We don't have anything better to do.
Clean it up by all means dude.
(I don't have to do it myself do I?) -- McTrumpet 02:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I've changed my mind. I want that last statement by Camillus exactly to be kept where it is.
I'm going to see if theres some sort of dispute resolution policy in place for this.
I'm not having Wikipedia users making personal attacks on me like this.
-- McTrumpet 02:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I've listed the page on
Wikipedia:Third opinion .--
McTrumpet
02:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
This page was listed on Wikipedia:Third Opinion, but I can frankly see no reason why. If you two don't like each other, that's entirely your business. Is there a dispute about an article somewhere here? Fagstein 04:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Fagstein, it was listed on
Wikipedia:Third Opinion because I seek external opinion on the acceptability of the conduct of user
User:CPMcE
They have alleged that I :
1 : Vandalise Wikipedia 2 : Make Anonymous posts 3 : Act as a sock puppet for, at various times, "Rms", "Mr Seeger" and/or "Mr Seeker". 4 : I spread "vile propoganda" 5 : My actions are in breach of have breached Wikipedia:No personal attacks
I have asked User:CPMcE to stop spreading unfounded lies and rumours.
I have also asked User:CPMcE to provide any sort of evidence which they may have to justify these statements against myself.
User:CPMcE has failed to provide a single piece of material which would point to any impropriety whatsoever on my part. Their actions are without reason, logic, nor do they have any basis in fact.
Furthermore, they continue to make these unfounded claims, despite acknowledging that they are unable to provide any sort of back up for their statements at all.
Personally, I do not feel that User:CPMcE has acted within the policies of Wikipedia, and I seek the opinions of third parties on that.
That is why I placed it in [[ Wikipedia:Third Opinion]].
-- 82.9.50.32 11:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
(Why does the preview show my ip? What happened to my username? Have I been banned or what?)
Fagstein, I noticed that you moved the original listing on
Wikipedia:Third Opinion to somewhere else called, 'Active Disagreements'. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find that page on Wikipedia. Don't suppose theres any chance you could provide a link?
I've just found this page : Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct and I think that it might well be the most appropriate venue this discussion. -- 82.9.50.32 11:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Following on from this RfC, I've opened a Request for Arbitration which can be found here. Demiurge 15:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
See
this edit in which I put the recommendation to the administrators, who have the power to implement it. I am not closing the application for arbitration just yet, just in case the community decides not to take the recommended action. --
Tony Sidaway
13:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)