Could someone provide a concise summary of the one or two most important charges against CheeseDreams? I've been having a look, and find it difficult to wade through all the detail.
Quite a few of the specific charges seem minor, for example the "personal attacks" don't seem particularly personal. I see no evidence presented on Snowspinner's charge of "POV warrioring". There's no doubt that CheeseDreams has displayed a poor wikiquette. But, the handful of edits I've looked at do not seem terribly outrageous. Filing a handful of RFC's hardly seems like a punishable offense.
The main policy violation I've noticed is violations of the 3 revert rule. That seems moot, since that's now a blockable offense for future violations. I imagine I'm not alone in trying to sift the key allegations from the rather lengthy discussion here and on the various RFC's. Are there one or two really outrageous things CheeseDreams has done, or is the case more of a cumulative frustration one? Wolfman 19:34, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. Others cannot see the trees for the forest.
A select few, lucky, and beholden to none other, can see the counterpoint that binds them both. CheeseDreams 02:17, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Please check [2] -- there was no explanation on the talk page for why CheeseDreams disputes the neutrality and accuracy; also, since this is not an article but a userpage, it seems inappropriate. Generally, we shouldn't screw with other's userpages, right? Slrubenstein 21:29, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
After reviewing CheeseDream's arguments against my work on the Cultural and Historical Background article, I summed up with this comment:
Apparently, Dr. Zen and FT2 think this is evidence against me. That they might think so reveals something very strange going on at Wikipedia. I have made no personal attack or insult, I am simply reporting a fact. CheeseDreams has made so many arguments that have no basis whatsoever (although I have repeatedly provided the sources for my research, after almost two months CheeseDreams has yet to provide any scholarly sources), and has made so many claims that anyone knowledgeable about Judaism or Jewish history in late antiquity would find laughable on their face, it is clear that CheeseDreams is ignorant. Now, this is not only a legitimate observation -- it is an important and vital claim. If wikipedia is to succede, we have to have standards. Contributions have to be accurate and verifiable, and based on research. If we abandon these standards, then what is the point of it all? Slrubenstein 00:57, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
And to be crystal clear, I am not complaining that CheeseDreams is not an academic scholar. I do not believe anyone must be an academic scholar, certainly not to participate fully in editing an article. But non-academic scholars are just as capable of research as academic scholars. I do expect people to contribute to wikipedia based on what they know. Look, if CheeseDreams simply said "I do not understand this, can someone explain -- it would make the article clearer" of if she said "This sentence is too long, or ungrammatical, how about like this," or "Why not move this section over there?" I would welcome her input. But she consistently comments on content and then reveals that she actually is just bullshitting! This is my objection. After two months of dealing with her constant, continual, persistent attempts to change the content of the article to bullshit, yes, I unapologetically feel the article would be better off if she went away. It's not personal, it isn't about me or her, it is about the article. Slrubenstein 13:51, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I am not saying I reject all of CheeseDream's work, I am only explaining why I reject what I have rejected. As to fault, I'd be curious to know what CheeseDreams thinks I did first, to antagonize her. More to the point -- FT2 quoted a comment above as if it is an example of something I did wrong. I continue to insist that the comment quoted above was the right thing to say at the time, and important for the project. Slrubenstein 01:15, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Could someone provide a concise summary of the one or two most important charges against CheeseDreams? I've been having a look, and find it difficult to wade through all the detail.
Quite a few of the specific charges seem minor, for example the "personal attacks" don't seem particularly personal. I see no evidence presented on Snowspinner's charge of "POV warrioring". There's no doubt that CheeseDreams has displayed a poor wikiquette. But, the handful of edits I've looked at do not seem terribly outrageous. Filing a handful of RFC's hardly seems like a punishable offense.
The main policy violation I've noticed is violations of the 3 revert rule. That seems moot, since that's now a blockable offense for future violations. I imagine I'm not alone in trying to sift the key allegations from the rather lengthy discussion here and on the various RFC's. Are there one or two really outrageous things CheeseDreams has done, or is the case more of a cumulative frustration one? Wolfman 19:34, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. Others cannot see the trees for the forest.
A select few, lucky, and beholden to none other, can see the counterpoint that binds them both. CheeseDreams 02:17, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Please check [2] -- there was no explanation on the talk page for why CheeseDreams disputes the neutrality and accuracy; also, since this is not an article but a userpage, it seems inappropriate. Generally, we shouldn't screw with other's userpages, right? Slrubenstein 21:29, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
After reviewing CheeseDream's arguments against my work on the Cultural and Historical Background article, I summed up with this comment:
Apparently, Dr. Zen and FT2 think this is evidence against me. That they might think so reveals something very strange going on at Wikipedia. I have made no personal attack or insult, I am simply reporting a fact. CheeseDreams has made so many arguments that have no basis whatsoever (although I have repeatedly provided the sources for my research, after almost two months CheeseDreams has yet to provide any scholarly sources), and has made so many claims that anyone knowledgeable about Judaism or Jewish history in late antiquity would find laughable on their face, it is clear that CheeseDreams is ignorant. Now, this is not only a legitimate observation -- it is an important and vital claim. If wikipedia is to succede, we have to have standards. Contributions have to be accurate and verifiable, and based on research. If we abandon these standards, then what is the point of it all? Slrubenstein 00:57, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
And to be crystal clear, I am not complaining that CheeseDreams is not an academic scholar. I do not believe anyone must be an academic scholar, certainly not to participate fully in editing an article. But non-academic scholars are just as capable of research as academic scholars. I do expect people to contribute to wikipedia based on what they know. Look, if CheeseDreams simply said "I do not understand this, can someone explain -- it would make the article clearer" of if she said "This sentence is too long, or ungrammatical, how about like this," or "Why not move this section over there?" I would welcome her input. But she consistently comments on content and then reveals that she actually is just bullshitting! This is my objection. After two months of dealing with her constant, continual, persistent attempts to change the content of the article to bullshit, yes, I unapologetically feel the article would be better off if she went away. It's not personal, it isn't about me or her, it is about the article. Slrubenstein 13:51, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I am not saying I reject all of CheeseDream's work, I am only explaining why I reject what I have rejected. As to fault, I'd be curious to know what CheeseDreams thinks I did first, to antagonize her. More to the point -- FT2 quoted a comment above as if it is an example of something I did wrong. I continue to insist that the comment quoted above was the right thing to say at the time, and important for the project. Slrubenstein 01:15, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)