There is a small flaw in this procedure, that is requesting admins to email when a request is unsuccessful. I am not prepared to jeopardise my email account in this way. My solution is to post on the IPs talk page - not guaranteed but ... -- Golden Wattle talk 05:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
Thank you for expressing an interest in becoming a Wikipedia user!
Unfortunately, the username you requested at [diff of IP requesting it at the RAA page] - [Username requested] - is already registered.
If you wish to have an account created for you, please either create a new request with the new username request at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_an_account or ask me directly, at my user talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Daniel.Bryant
Cheers,
Daniel Bryant
Wikipedia administrator
This was a wrong archival, by a very member of the corrupt cabal that needs to go. I am doing exactly what he suggests, and exactly what needs to be done. This is a discussion that needs to continue, until the community asserts its rightful prerogatives. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 15:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
everything is logged, and anybody who is a) trusted by the tool admins, b) has enough experience on enwiki, and c) is not in trouble in any way is given access to the tool, and can see the logs. It just so happens that myself and at least'' another tool admin are reasonably against giving Kmweber access, my reason being that I just don't trust Kmweber to act in a friendly way towards potentially new users, especially given my various encounters with him on both IRC and RfA. Another tool admin feels that this tool should not be represented by somebody who has been harassing that tool admin. So, in conclusion, as far as I can tell this is a direct result of being denied access from the tool, which in my opinion is the fault to Kmweber anyway. Sorry for the rant, and apologies if I insulted anyone. :-) Stwalkerster [ talk ] 16:07, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I think there are some ideas expressed above that are very much against what Wikipedia is all about, and Kurt has made this point very clearly. This is a community project, and its decisions are should be made by the community. If it is true that Kurt is not trusted, my question is: where's the link to the community discussion in which that
consensus was reached? For the record, I strongly disagree with any assertion that Kurt is not to be trusted, and furthermore I am very skeptical that there is community consensus that he is not to be trusted.
Frank |
talk
17:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Maybe we should close the buffet now. - Rjd0060 ( talk) 17:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
And that is precisely the problem. Any action on a community project with millions of editors and ~1.5 thousand administrators that happens because of one or two editors deciding to "ban" someone is not in keeping with a community-oriented project. Neither is threatening to block said editor, who is acting in good faith, and neither is the name-calling. Even if you want to attach pejorative terms to Kurt's behavior, you still have not linked to the community discussion wherein the decision regarding granting the tool (or not) to Kurt was made. I am interested in seeing the consensus for this action; that's how we do things on Wikipedia, and I would like to have participated in that discussion. I wasn't made aware of it beforehand, and I've yet to see transcripts and/or links to it after the fact. Frank | talk 18:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I have explained this countless times kurt, but I will again, for everyone else's benifit.
All he has to do now, is go request this be reviewed on the public account creation mailing list, and develop consensus there he should be added. Kurt refuses to do this, so he can't really complain about a 'cabal' when all he has to do is gain consensus, which is exactly the way wikipedia works. Yes, Wikipedia consensus doesn't control the server, yes, SQL could prevent anyone from using the tool he wanted, but he doesn't. So this isn't really an issue. Prodego talk 19:16, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Here's what really gets me. I could understand opposition to a particular scheme for the community determining who gets access to the account creation tool. But what I can't understand is why all you cabalists are so opposed to the idea of turning over control of this process to the Wikipedia community in principle. The only reason I can think of is that you indeed hold the community in utter contempt. That it's a "toolserver tool" is not really a good reason--there's no inherent reason why a toolserver tool shouldn't be under control of the Wikipedia communty, with the "tool admins" merely implementing its will. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 19:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
<aside>Just a note, but reviewing the list of people on the tool server as users I see disgraced ex-admins and "problematic" users with block histories. Hmmmmm..... I'm normally opposed to Kurt on most things but I'm allways willing to listen - and here we seem to have some valid issues.</aside> Pedro : Chat 20:39, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
So let's see, the proposal is to take control of something that is on a completely different site as Wikipedia and give control to the community through some unspecified process. And this is supposed to work how? How does the "community" get the proper access to give people accounts? As with every tool on the toolserver, its entirely controlled by the tool owner. If SQL decides that only he can control access, he can do that, if he decides he no longer wants to maintain the tool and wants to remove it entirely, he can do that. There's nothing Wikipedia policy can do, since its not on Wikipedia. Mr. Z-man 23:48, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
This revolution needs more cowbell. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 00:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Naturally, there are exceptions in cases of abusive resource use and performing actions in violation of its terms of use, but that pretty much falls outside the realm of wiki politics and into the realm of systems administration. Although in my opinion it doesn't appear that this tool violates those policies, if anyone believes it does, complaints surrounding misuse of toolserver resources should be sent to the toolserver admins in order to have the user's account reviewed for malicious use.
Once again, please keep in mind that the actual development and access decisions related to the tool are up to the tool's developer, so policy discussions surrounding that tool, by logical deduction, are limited to whether or not it should be linked from this project in MediaWiki system messages. All other decisions are up to the developer of that tool. Anyone who believes that aspects of a tool should change should contact the developer; or, alternatively, if the person with the dispute is willing and able to code a replacement tool he is free to do so, make sure it works, then ask the project's community to supplant the current link to the tool with a link to your own. -- slakr\ talk / 19:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Let me explain something to everyone, since I see my name being tossed around quite a bit. My role, in this project, is that of a Developer, and, a System administrator. I generally hold the final say, on what code is accepted to be run, for this software package, and, maintain the subsystems related to it, that run on the stable toolserver. I do not approve users any longer (As soon as we got a few reliable administrators, I stepped back, and let them run the show). I do not choose the tool admins any more (and, haven't in many months). I don't really even work the requests any more, I just maintain the codebase, and, make sure the required systems are running (the welcomebot, the UDP collector, the software itself, et cetera). Additionally, I hold operator access to the IRC channel, and, administrate the mailing list.
I was asked my opinion on overturning Kmweber's declined access, and, at the time, my opinion was that I did not see the problem with granting him access. Recently, this user has seen it fit, to harass various other tool users, admins, and, level threats at myself, and, I am told, others. This is the precise reason I have removed his access to the IRC channel (Which, serves primarily as a notification service, for new requests, and, a place for the development team to co-ordinate), to prevent further disruption and trolling. This has done a great deal to change my opinion.
I am severely disappointed, at the way I have seen our admins, and, users described above. I would remind people here, that the 'job' requires a good deal of good faith a lot of the time, includes access to nonpublic data (IP addresses, underlying blocks, e-mail addresses occasionally passwords by mistake), requires a calm, patient demeanor.
Additionally, for reference, I am not the sole system administrator, there is also Cobi, and, OverlordQ, both of whom have equally little to do with day-to-day operation. Also, there are approximately ten developers, give or take. Outside of the threats, and whatnot, this does not involve me, nor any of the other maintainers or developers. This is a question of access, and day-to-day operation.
To re-iterate, I don't grant access, or promote / demote people outside of extreme circumstances (read: emergencies), and, I generally do not participate in those processes.
It may be of interest, that we are in the process of working the tool into a MediaWiki extension, so that all this can be brought on-wiki shortly. Progress to this end is somewhat stalled at the moment, I assume that this is mostly due to school being back in. If anyone is interested in helping out, by all means, drop me a line, or, even better a patch. We would all greatly appreciate the help. SQL Query me! 06:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
The link http://stable.toolserver.org/acc/users.php on the Wikipedia:Request an account/Administrators project page is broken. Debresser ( talk) 12:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
There is a small flaw in this procedure, that is requesting admins to email when a request is unsuccessful. I am not prepared to jeopardise my email account in this way. My solution is to post on the IPs talk page - not guaranteed but ... -- Golden Wattle talk 05:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
Thank you for expressing an interest in becoming a Wikipedia user!
Unfortunately, the username you requested at [diff of IP requesting it at the RAA page] - [Username requested] - is already registered.
If you wish to have an account created for you, please either create a new request with the new username request at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_an_account or ask me directly, at my user talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Daniel.Bryant
Cheers,
Daniel Bryant
Wikipedia administrator
This was a wrong archival, by a very member of the corrupt cabal that needs to go. I am doing exactly what he suggests, and exactly what needs to be done. This is a discussion that needs to continue, until the community asserts its rightful prerogatives. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 15:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
everything is logged, and anybody who is a) trusted by the tool admins, b) has enough experience on enwiki, and c) is not in trouble in any way is given access to the tool, and can see the logs. It just so happens that myself and at least'' another tool admin are reasonably against giving Kmweber access, my reason being that I just don't trust Kmweber to act in a friendly way towards potentially new users, especially given my various encounters with him on both IRC and RfA. Another tool admin feels that this tool should not be represented by somebody who has been harassing that tool admin. So, in conclusion, as far as I can tell this is a direct result of being denied access from the tool, which in my opinion is the fault to Kmweber anyway. Sorry for the rant, and apologies if I insulted anyone. :-) Stwalkerster [ talk ] 16:07, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I think there are some ideas expressed above that are very much against what Wikipedia is all about, and Kurt has made this point very clearly. This is a community project, and its decisions are should be made by the community. If it is true that Kurt is not trusted, my question is: where's the link to the community discussion in which that
consensus was reached? For the record, I strongly disagree with any assertion that Kurt is not to be trusted, and furthermore I am very skeptical that there is community consensus that he is not to be trusted.
Frank |
talk
17:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Maybe we should close the buffet now. - Rjd0060 ( talk) 17:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
And that is precisely the problem. Any action on a community project with millions of editors and ~1.5 thousand administrators that happens because of one or two editors deciding to "ban" someone is not in keeping with a community-oriented project. Neither is threatening to block said editor, who is acting in good faith, and neither is the name-calling. Even if you want to attach pejorative terms to Kurt's behavior, you still have not linked to the community discussion wherein the decision regarding granting the tool (or not) to Kurt was made. I am interested in seeing the consensus for this action; that's how we do things on Wikipedia, and I would like to have participated in that discussion. I wasn't made aware of it beforehand, and I've yet to see transcripts and/or links to it after the fact. Frank | talk 18:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I have explained this countless times kurt, but I will again, for everyone else's benifit.
All he has to do now, is go request this be reviewed on the public account creation mailing list, and develop consensus there he should be added. Kurt refuses to do this, so he can't really complain about a 'cabal' when all he has to do is gain consensus, which is exactly the way wikipedia works. Yes, Wikipedia consensus doesn't control the server, yes, SQL could prevent anyone from using the tool he wanted, but he doesn't. So this isn't really an issue. Prodego talk 19:16, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Here's what really gets me. I could understand opposition to a particular scheme for the community determining who gets access to the account creation tool. But what I can't understand is why all you cabalists are so opposed to the idea of turning over control of this process to the Wikipedia community in principle. The only reason I can think of is that you indeed hold the community in utter contempt. That it's a "toolserver tool" is not really a good reason--there's no inherent reason why a toolserver tool shouldn't be under control of the Wikipedia communty, with the "tool admins" merely implementing its will. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 19:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
<aside>Just a note, but reviewing the list of people on the tool server as users I see disgraced ex-admins and "problematic" users with block histories. Hmmmmm..... I'm normally opposed to Kurt on most things but I'm allways willing to listen - and here we seem to have some valid issues.</aside> Pedro : Chat 20:39, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
So let's see, the proposal is to take control of something that is on a completely different site as Wikipedia and give control to the community through some unspecified process. And this is supposed to work how? How does the "community" get the proper access to give people accounts? As with every tool on the toolserver, its entirely controlled by the tool owner. If SQL decides that only he can control access, he can do that, if he decides he no longer wants to maintain the tool and wants to remove it entirely, he can do that. There's nothing Wikipedia policy can do, since its not on Wikipedia. Mr. Z-man 23:48, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
This revolution needs more cowbell. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 00:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Naturally, there are exceptions in cases of abusive resource use and performing actions in violation of its terms of use, but that pretty much falls outside the realm of wiki politics and into the realm of systems administration. Although in my opinion it doesn't appear that this tool violates those policies, if anyone believes it does, complaints surrounding misuse of toolserver resources should be sent to the toolserver admins in order to have the user's account reviewed for malicious use.
Once again, please keep in mind that the actual development and access decisions related to the tool are up to the tool's developer, so policy discussions surrounding that tool, by logical deduction, are limited to whether or not it should be linked from this project in MediaWiki system messages. All other decisions are up to the developer of that tool. Anyone who believes that aspects of a tool should change should contact the developer; or, alternatively, if the person with the dispute is willing and able to code a replacement tool he is free to do so, make sure it works, then ask the project's community to supplant the current link to the tool with a link to your own. -- slakr\ talk / 19:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Let me explain something to everyone, since I see my name being tossed around quite a bit. My role, in this project, is that of a Developer, and, a System administrator. I generally hold the final say, on what code is accepted to be run, for this software package, and, maintain the subsystems related to it, that run on the stable toolserver. I do not approve users any longer (As soon as we got a few reliable administrators, I stepped back, and let them run the show). I do not choose the tool admins any more (and, haven't in many months). I don't really even work the requests any more, I just maintain the codebase, and, make sure the required systems are running (the welcomebot, the UDP collector, the software itself, et cetera). Additionally, I hold operator access to the IRC channel, and, administrate the mailing list.
I was asked my opinion on overturning Kmweber's declined access, and, at the time, my opinion was that I did not see the problem with granting him access. Recently, this user has seen it fit, to harass various other tool users, admins, and, level threats at myself, and, I am told, others. This is the precise reason I have removed his access to the IRC channel (Which, serves primarily as a notification service, for new requests, and, a place for the development team to co-ordinate), to prevent further disruption and trolling. This has done a great deal to change my opinion.
I am severely disappointed, at the way I have seen our admins, and, users described above. I would remind people here, that the 'job' requires a good deal of good faith a lot of the time, includes access to nonpublic data (IP addresses, underlying blocks, e-mail addresses occasionally passwords by mistake), requires a calm, patient demeanor.
Additionally, for reference, I am not the sole system administrator, there is also Cobi, and, OverlordQ, both of whom have equally little to do with day-to-day operation. Also, there are approximately ten developers, give or take. Outside of the threats, and whatnot, this does not involve me, nor any of the other maintainers or developers. This is a question of access, and day-to-day operation.
To re-iterate, I don't grant access, or promote / demote people outside of extreme circumstances (read: emergencies), and, I generally do not participate in those processes.
It may be of interest, that we are in the process of working the tool into a MediaWiki extension, so that all this can be brought on-wiki shortly. Progress to this end is somewhat stalled at the moment, I assume that this is mostly due to school being back in. If anyone is interested in helping out, by all means, drop me a line, or, even better a patch. We would all greatly appreciate the help. SQL Query me! 06:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
The link http://stable.toolserver.org/acc/users.php on the Wikipedia:Request an account/Administrators project page is broken. Debresser ( talk) 12:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)