See also: Wikipedia talk:Conflicts between users/Archive 1
Understanding pests might not be enough. Sometimes, we need help from others. -- Uncle Ed 15:41, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I disagree with Uncle Ed's move of this page. I also wish he had discussed it prior to the move. "Conflicts between users" does not describe the majority of prior use of this page (which includes even recently banned users such as Khranus and NightCrawler). "Conflicts between users" are not at ll the same as "Problem users". Problem users are users abuse Wikipedia, violate accepted policies and guidelines, act offensively towards others, etc. If there is an issue with the name "Problem users", please specify what the issue is and we can come up with a better name. Until then, could we please move this page back? Daniel Quinlan 04:37, Nov 22, 2003 (UTC)
I agree that the move should have been discussed before being made. I have to say that I prefer "Conflicts between users" to "Problem users" for the simple reason that those listed here are less likely to get upset about it (or so it seems to me). Inappropriate listings may also decrease: it's a lot more satisfying to an angry Wikiquette violator to label his or her opponent a "Problem user" than it is to make an entry on "Conflicts between users". -- Cyan 04:51, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I'm having some problems with User:NightCrawler. I felt his treatment of User:Petermanchester was out of line, so I tried to discuss the matter with him (see diff/talkpage/whatever). He didn't take my attempt at constructive criticism well, so I hope someone else can have a talk with him about this. -- Cyan 05:17, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I also find this name change a very bad one. I have added a person to this page a few times, but rarely because of a 'conflict'. When I put someone like SmartBee on this page, it is not my idea that there is some kind of conflict to be fought out, nor that that user might be get banned when he does not change his ways. To me, I mention them here to tell others "Hey, here is someone whose edits have to be watched extra careful for some specific reason." Andre Engels 16:42, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
How about WP:Complaints about users? silsor 05:06, Nov 22, 2003 (UTC)
I never liked having a forum for complaining about other PEOPLE. It's too easy to abuse such a forum.
If two people have a conflict of GOALS, now that's something that can be worked out a lot of the time.
We're supposed to be making good ARTICLES here; that should take priority. -- Uncle Ed 18:25, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
This whole Polish cities with "German" names conflict involving User:Caius2ga, User:taw, User:24.2.152.139, and User:Nico is getting out of control. As User:Jwrosenzweig pointed out on Wikipedia:Conflicts between users, it's taking up more than hals the page and there seems to be no end in sight. I'm hoping we can generate some suggestions on how to deal with this -- short of temporary bans. Any ideas? -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:36, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
The name of this page needs to change, perhaps back to Wikipedia:Problem users (the even older Wikipedia:Annoying users is probably not appropriate), or to something different since most of these conflicts are about one user doing something and not necessarily two users feuding. Maximus Re x 04:15, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I think people should suggest names here. After thinking about the situation some more, I think renaming the page Wikipedia:Problem users would be a step backwards. Maximus Re x 12:33, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)
From recent experiences, I can say that the name makes no difference. It is just as upsetting being listed on "conflicts between users" as it would have been had I been listed on "problem users". It amounts to the same thing, and people will still regard the listing as a listing of a problem user. "Violations of policy" seems a little extreme. Perhaps the aim of the page needs to be resolved before the name of it can be. Is it supposed to be the first step in banning someone? Is it a place to call for mediation? Is it just a place to complain about people you don't like? Basically, why is this page here? Angela . 18:56, Jan 8, 2004 (UTC)
Please stop mercilessly reverting the Wikipedia:Conflicts between users page. This is a functional page; some of us actually want to use it, but are instead faced with repetitive edit conflicts. I suggest if you want to revert each other over and over and over, then do it in the Sandbox, where it won't impinge on the rest of us. - Mark 03:31, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Due to this edit war, I am protecting this page for 24 hours as a cooling-off period. Admittedly, this is not the best solution (in other words, I think it is a lame thing to do, too), but the only other solution I see is to ban Wik either temporarily or permanently -- & I would rather see another, less extreme solution. I will lift this ban before then if Wik promises to stop reverting this page.
Until then, add all new material to this Talk page, for addition when I lift the protection. -- llywrch 18:25, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Is this page at all useful for anything? It seems as though all that happens is someone gets upset, they post a name here, there's inconclusive talk for a while, and then nothing happens, no matter how many times the person concerned has offended, or whatever. Is this at all purposive? john 06:12, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Can we please delete all of the specious additions made by Mr. Natural Health and direct him to to Talk pages of the articles he's having problems on? RickK 01:37, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This page has grown too much. It is now 139k and commented on daily. I suggest subpages, one for each user who is complained about, with a master index on the main page. silsor 02:04, Jan 18, 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to see temporary bans given out pretty freely by admins (and of course a strict review process to watch the admins!) in order to curb bad behaviors. IMO permanant bans are almost impossible to enforce, but temporary bans are obviously annoying and awkward to those punished, and have a much less negative effect on the community. I get the impression sometimes that a non-vandal has little to fear from anyone except Jimbo. There seems to be little or no reprecussions for people making someone elses experience here less pleasent, or editing poorly. Where is the wikipedia:crappy editing in progress page, to report complaints based sheerly on editorial quality? Has anybody seen how long the list is on Wikipedia:Pages needing attention? Can you imagine how great it would be if that page got as much attention as this one, or VfD??? ;) Jack 07:24, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Will anyone object to me changing the section headings so that you can actually tell who is the complainer and who is the complainee? -- Tim Starling 04:55, Jan 21, 2004 (UTC)
I like the idea, but I don't understand how you did it tho. I placed 2 seperate people here, and yet one (Kenneth) was befor emy name, and another (bryan) after... I made them uniform. Whuch way is correct? Jack 07:39, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
What you did is great. It meakes it easier to tell whats going on, and whose being addressed. My above complaint was about the half way point. Thanks Tim. Jack 08:36, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
How do you like it now? No discussion whatsoever on the main page, just directories to link into for active discussions, and archives for inactive? I think it should be kept this way, so much less messy! Jack 13:52, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Conflict resolution for a possible way to better handle user and article disputes. -- mav 19:03, 24 Jan 2004 (PST)
Wikipedia:Requests for comment has been created. I would therefore like to start the process of slowly depreciating this page by directing new dispute items to RfC. If there are no objections I'll leave such a note at the top of this page. The policy statements may be eventually ported over as well. --
mav
Can someone list themselves on this page?
As Tim Starling clarified on Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, we have two separate processes. Dispute resolution is to handle situations where two or more users disagree over the content of an article (i.e. edit wars). This page, on the other hand, handles situations where one user may be engaging in serious violations of our policies or behavior guidelines. Granted, some of the behavior happens during edit wars, but I think we need to have a clear grasp of the distinction. Accordingly, I propose that we rename the page "Alleged user misconduct", or something similar (alternative proposals welcome). -- Michael Snow 23:46, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)
See also: Wikipedia talk:Conflicts between users/Archive 1
Understanding pests might not be enough. Sometimes, we need help from others. -- Uncle Ed 15:41, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I disagree with Uncle Ed's move of this page. I also wish he had discussed it prior to the move. "Conflicts between users" does not describe the majority of prior use of this page (which includes even recently banned users such as Khranus and NightCrawler). "Conflicts between users" are not at ll the same as "Problem users". Problem users are users abuse Wikipedia, violate accepted policies and guidelines, act offensively towards others, etc. If there is an issue with the name "Problem users", please specify what the issue is and we can come up with a better name. Until then, could we please move this page back? Daniel Quinlan 04:37, Nov 22, 2003 (UTC)
I agree that the move should have been discussed before being made. I have to say that I prefer "Conflicts between users" to "Problem users" for the simple reason that those listed here are less likely to get upset about it (or so it seems to me). Inappropriate listings may also decrease: it's a lot more satisfying to an angry Wikiquette violator to label his or her opponent a "Problem user" than it is to make an entry on "Conflicts between users". -- Cyan 04:51, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I'm having some problems with User:NightCrawler. I felt his treatment of User:Petermanchester was out of line, so I tried to discuss the matter with him (see diff/talkpage/whatever). He didn't take my attempt at constructive criticism well, so I hope someone else can have a talk with him about this. -- Cyan 05:17, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I also find this name change a very bad one. I have added a person to this page a few times, but rarely because of a 'conflict'. When I put someone like SmartBee on this page, it is not my idea that there is some kind of conflict to be fought out, nor that that user might be get banned when he does not change his ways. To me, I mention them here to tell others "Hey, here is someone whose edits have to be watched extra careful for some specific reason." Andre Engels 16:42, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
How about WP:Complaints about users? silsor 05:06, Nov 22, 2003 (UTC)
I never liked having a forum for complaining about other PEOPLE. It's too easy to abuse such a forum.
If two people have a conflict of GOALS, now that's something that can be worked out a lot of the time.
We're supposed to be making good ARTICLES here; that should take priority. -- Uncle Ed 18:25, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
This whole Polish cities with "German" names conflict involving User:Caius2ga, User:taw, User:24.2.152.139, and User:Nico is getting out of control. As User:Jwrosenzweig pointed out on Wikipedia:Conflicts between users, it's taking up more than hals the page and there seems to be no end in sight. I'm hoping we can generate some suggestions on how to deal with this -- short of temporary bans. Any ideas? -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 02:36, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
The name of this page needs to change, perhaps back to Wikipedia:Problem users (the even older Wikipedia:Annoying users is probably not appropriate), or to something different since most of these conflicts are about one user doing something and not necessarily two users feuding. Maximus Re x 04:15, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I think people should suggest names here. After thinking about the situation some more, I think renaming the page Wikipedia:Problem users would be a step backwards. Maximus Re x 12:33, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)
From recent experiences, I can say that the name makes no difference. It is just as upsetting being listed on "conflicts between users" as it would have been had I been listed on "problem users". It amounts to the same thing, and people will still regard the listing as a listing of a problem user. "Violations of policy" seems a little extreme. Perhaps the aim of the page needs to be resolved before the name of it can be. Is it supposed to be the first step in banning someone? Is it a place to call for mediation? Is it just a place to complain about people you don't like? Basically, why is this page here? Angela . 18:56, Jan 8, 2004 (UTC)
Please stop mercilessly reverting the Wikipedia:Conflicts between users page. This is a functional page; some of us actually want to use it, but are instead faced with repetitive edit conflicts. I suggest if you want to revert each other over and over and over, then do it in the Sandbox, where it won't impinge on the rest of us. - Mark 03:31, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Due to this edit war, I am protecting this page for 24 hours as a cooling-off period. Admittedly, this is not the best solution (in other words, I think it is a lame thing to do, too), but the only other solution I see is to ban Wik either temporarily or permanently -- & I would rather see another, less extreme solution. I will lift this ban before then if Wik promises to stop reverting this page.
Until then, add all new material to this Talk page, for addition when I lift the protection. -- llywrch 18:25, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Is this page at all useful for anything? It seems as though all that happens is someone gets upset, they post a name here, there's inconclusive talk for a while, and then nothing happens, no matter how many times the person concerned has offended, or whatever. Is this at all purposive? john 06:12, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Can we please delete all of the specious additions made by Mr. Natural Health and direct him to to Talk pages of the articles he's having problems on? RickK 01:37, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This page has grown too much. It is now 139k and commented on daily. I suggest subpages, one for each user who is complained about, with a master index on the main page. silsor 02:04, Jan 18, 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to see temporary bans given out pretty freely by admins (and of course a strict review process to watch the admins!) in order to curb bad behaviors. IMO permanant bans are almost impossible to enforce, but temporary bans are obviously annoying and awkward to those punished, and have a much less negative effect on the community. I get the impression sometimes that a non-vandal has little to fear from anyone except Jimbo. There seems to be little or no reprecussions for people making someone elses experience here less pleasent, or editing poorly. Where is the wikipedia:crappy editing in progress page, to report complaints based sheerly on editorial quality? Has anybody seen how long the list is on Wikipedia:Pages needing attention? Can you imagine how great it would be if that page got as much attention as this one, or VfD??? ;) Jack 07:24, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Will anyone object to me changing the section headings so that you can actually tell who is the complainer and who is the complainee? -- Tim Starling 04:55, Jan 21, 2004 (UTC)
I like the idea, but I don't understand how you did it tho. I placed 2 seperate people here, and yet one (Kenneth) was befor emy name, and another (bryan) after... I made them uniform. Whuch way is correct? Jack 07:39, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
What you did is great. It meakes it easier to tell whats going on, and whose being addressed. My above complaint was about the half way point. Thanks Tim. Jack 08:36, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
How do you like it now? No discussion whatsoever on the main page, just directories to link into for active discussions, and archives for inactive? I think it should be kept this way, so much less messy! Jack 13:52, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Conflict resolution for a possible way to better handle user and article disputes. -- mav 19:03, 24 Jan 2004 (PST)
Wikipedia:Requests for comment has been created. I would therefore like to start the process of slowly depreciating this page by directing new dispute items to RfC. If there are no objections I'll leave such a note at the top of this page. The policy statements may be eventually ported over as well. --
mav
Can someone list themselves on this page?
As Tim Starling clarified on Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, we have two separate processes. Dispute resolution is to handle situations where two or more users disagree over the content of an article (i.e. edit wars). This page, on the other hand, handles situations where one user may be engaging in serious violations of our policies or behavior guidelines. Granted, some of the behavior happens during edit wars, but I think we need to have a clear grasp of the distinction. Accordingly, I propose that we rename the page "Alleged user misconduct", or something similar (alternative proposals welcome). -- Michael Snow 23:46, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)