This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 9 |
There needs to be something set out for Mechinimas. They arn't webcomics, and as there seem to be an increasing number of them being made, there needs to be a set of criteria for notability. Possibilities-
Dr. B 00:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to try and change tack to try and generate something more akin, I'll admit, to my own personal preferences on what notability guidelines should be attempting to define. I'll ask that people bear in mind that an encyclopedia is a written compendium of knowledge, and that Wikipedia is not paper. Let's try and expand this guideline to cover all webcontent, and so save having to revisit this argument again and again.
First up, I'll explain my motives. What I would hope we are all seeking is the prevention of the abuse of Wikipedia through spamming. These guidelines should not be an opportunity for editors to push their own view on what should and should not be included. There should be no writing of these guidelines to include or exclude any specific subject. The goal of these guidelines is rather to outline and expand upon the notion that Wikipedia is not a web directory, i.e. not a site that specializes in linking to other web sites and categorizing those links. It should also note and expand upon the fact that we do not appreciate advertising, given Wikipedia articles are not advertisements.
Taking all that on board, I've attempted a rewrite, which I hope can be discussed here rather than simply reverted. The main thrust of the rewrite is to place policies at the heart of the page, and to remove specificity. If a webcomic or a blog has won an award, that is citable, referential and verifiable. If a website or a podcast has received coverage in a publication, that is again citable, referential and verifiable. Obviously regurgitation of press releases does not amount to press coverage, so care must be taken to make note that the coverage is of an acceptable quality.
We should also note that the use of the site itself as a source comes under the caveat, from Wikipedia:Reliable sources We may not use primary sources whose information has not been made available by a credible publication. Therefore, we cannot base an article on any webcontent using only the site upon which that webcontent is displayed. Anyway, please have a read, and discuss below. I have sourced this rewrite most heavily from Wikipedia:Notability (companies and corporations). Hiding talk 11:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Wow. Just wow. Although this in some ways amounts to just chucking out tons of what we'd worked really hard to get agreement on... I can't complain. If nothing else this is a much better base to build on, and I'd strongly support anyone who reverted anything other tha nminor changes that had not been fully discussed here first. Now for my one complaint. We have as an example something whose supporting material would fail this very guideline, I believe: Many people independent of Checkerboard Nightmare have published their own reviews of the strip. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. brenneman (t) (c) 12:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Site | GoogleNews | |
http://www.sequentialtart.com | [6] | |
http://www.enterthedream.net | [7] | [8] |
http://www.comicsworthreading.com | [9] | [10] |
http://doyourowndamnedcheerleading.blogspot.com | [11] | [12] |
We are allowing something to "bootstrap" off of non-notable sites. This will allow any Joe Blog's blog that is mentioned in any other group of blogs to get in recursivly. - brenneman (t) (c) 12:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah. I'm obviously not that happy with the re-vamp. I'd suggest re-adding Keenspot, as we got a consensus on that after a long discussion. The bigger issue, however, is that I think it seems almost as if you're trying to sweep the old discussion under the carpet and hide it by archiving the old talk material and not summing it up at the same time as you implement a sweeping change. I don't think you're actually doing that, I really actually believe on more than assumption you're doing it in good faith, but it does give the impression there's not been too much discussion on it. Or something. Do you see what I mean? (Also, you've entitled the Archive "Archive 01", ignoring the 3 previous archives. I think that's a bit confusing. And I edited the archive for your typo of "ending 4th of Januray 2005") J•A•K 12:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
(I have no idea if this is even still relevent.)
(Too many edit conflict... I'm not even going to read whatever just came up for twenty minutes!)
I applaud Hiding's work. This sort of change has been bubbling up on this talk page for a while, now. (See this comment and this comment by Geogre last year for example.) I was planning on pushing for this sort of change myself. I'm pleased that it has happened, and I'm additionally pleased that the resulting discussion has not really been about the basic criteria themselves, but mainly about what good examples of the criteria in action should be given in the footnotes. Uncle G 05:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I am new to Wikipedia, and would like to understand the issue here. Is the purpose of this guideline or policy to determine when we can create an article about a given web site? If this is the case, what is the connection with verifiability? I ask the question because a link to this issue was added in Wikipedia talk:verifiability
I would recommend adding some sort of guideline that links audience size to notability, as is done with magazines and other publications. For example, if a podcast is regularly getting 1,000 downloads a week for several weeks, I would probably qualify that as notable, even if it didn't meet the other criteria. And if a website is clearly getting tens of thousands of visitors on a regular basis, that would count. Though there should probably be some sort of exclusion for the occasional slashdotting, which could bring in 20,000 visitors over the space of 24 hours on a curiosity basis, but I wouldn't count that site as "notable" unless they had substantial sustained interest. Elonka 20:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Nifboy makes a good point, and I'll add to that the response to this argument that I gave when it was argued that WP:CORP should have inclusion guidelines based upon number of employees or annual turnover: Wikipedia is not a directory. A notability criterion that says that "all podcasts with an audience of N or more are notable" produces a directory of podcasts with audiences of N or more, even if there is nothing actually to say about the podcast apart from its audience figure. It doesn't produce an encyclopaedia.
These guidelines, in contrast, work from the principle that notability is determined by the world at large, that the best way to measure notability is to see whether the world at large has already deemed something to be notable, and the best barometer of that is to see whether other people, independent of the subject in question, have expended the time and the effort to create and to publish something non-trivial of their own about it. In other words: If there's more available about a podcast or a web site from independent sources than simple directory-entry information (e.g. for web sites, the sort of information that one can glean from whois), it satisfies the primary notability criterion. Uncle G 05:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Currently, the article makes reference to both webcontent and web-specific content. Is there supposed to be a distinction: I can think of some things that would come under the heading of web content by virtue of being webcomics, but which aren't web-specific. Does that come under this? J•A•K 08:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I think this is excellent start; I'm a little afraid it may not adequately cover sites that are important precisely as research resources. I think most of these can be covered as part of the article on the associated institutions, but I suspect that there are some serious ones that may simply be websites.
Examples of the kind of thing I'm talking about are Ethnologue ( [23]), a first-rate resource on populations speaking various languages and on how languages are related to one another; IDESCATT ( [24]), a first rate statistical resource for Catalonia; or HistoryLink ( [25]), a large collection of excellently researched, well-cited articles about Seattle and environs, whose contributors include several most prominent archivists of the regions history. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:47, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
The "Notes" are now longer than the guideline. Just an observation. - brenneman (t) (c) 22:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I like the new version of this guideline because:
I however would like to make the following change: after the criteria, saying something like:
This is somewhat implied in WP:V, but I think it would be useful to report it here. Any objection? - Liberatore( T) 13:35, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made this change. The "Reference" section allows giving a proof of notability that is not available on the Web (for example, a paper-only article on a newspaper). - Liberatore( T) 12:10, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've removed comic from under examples that was added by its author. I'm making no judgements about the actual facts in question, except to say that two examples seems plenty and that it just looks bad. If its appropiate, let someone else add it in. - brenneman (t) (c) 03:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Is the comparisons section relevant? I've seen people use google hits in debates on topics which aren't web specific, for example Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rastko Perišić, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Berom, Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Akin Sawyerr, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Humanauts, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Backwash (musical group) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lords of the rhymes. I would suggest the material is moved to Wikipedia:Notability. Hiding talk 20:41, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I was surprised to see the latest version of these guidelines fails to mention Alexa Internet rankings anymore. Whilst I disagree with their usage as the sole indicator of notability, they do provide a very good guide as to the most popular websites. Surely no-one would be disputing the fact that any of Alexa's top 500 visited websites were of sufficient notability for inclusion? Maybe the service could at least gain a mention on this page, or an inclusion in the comparisons table, since it is a genuinely good means of contrasting websites. Finally, I do wonder how many articles we have about websites which would no-longer meet these revised guidelines... └ UkPaolo/ talk┐ 15:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
As for articles that would be excluded: The point of guidelines such as these is to exclude subjects which can only ever be web directory entries because (when self-sourced material and outright original research are excluded) directory entry information is all that is available for constructing an article. If we have an article on a web site that does not satisfy the present criteria, then it will be the case that either (a) the article can never be more than a web directory entry, and not desirable because we aren't creating a web directory, or (b) the article has been padded out with original research (e.g. the participants in a web-based discussion have come to Wikipedia and written an original history of the discussion forum that has not been published anywhere outside of Wikipedia) or simply wholly unverifiable material. Uncle G 18:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Before the rewrite, the old version of this guideline explicitly stated for forums something like: "A forum of over 5,000 members that has had an impact outside of its community". This line needs to be put back in somewhere, there are MANY forum articles that were AfD'd (and eventually deleted) specifically for failing to meet this requirement. Spend any amount of time on RC Patrol and you'd see that a lot of forumcruft is created, most often by newish Wikipedians unaware of this guideline. Zunaid 07:58, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
I am a member of the mainly inactive Wikipedia:WikiProject Blogging, and I believe the current WP:WEB fails bloggers. An accurate way to measure a blog's popularity isn't through Google or Alexa - but Technorati. I suggest in any rewrite of WP:WEB, you allow all of the Top 100/200/500 blogs have an article. Compu te r Jo e 18:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the tag on this page and replaced it with not policy - these guidelines are completely erroneous, and reflect the hijacking of this notability discussion by people with a very poor understanding of several Wikipedia policies, most notably no original research. The result of these guidelines is to render hundreds of long-standing articles including at least one featured article unfit for inclusion. When your policy manipulation has reached a point of such obvious error, you have stopped creating policy. I invite any of the people involved in this debacle to take up the initiative in restoring this page to something resembling sanity. -- Phil Sandifer 00:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty evident that the items listed here are not very complete, and equally obvious that not all editors subscribe to this proposed guideline, so I'm using the phrasing "This page gives some rough guidelines which some Wikipedia editors use to decide if any form of web specific-content, being either the content of a website or the specific website itself should have an article on Wikipedia." This also takes into account the rather controversial nature of the "notability" concept in itself. There are writers who seem to be capable producong perfectly good articles without any consideration of whether their subject is "notable". Strongly inclusive wording here is therefore unjustifiable, for there is much division. -- Tony Sidaway 03:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Neglected Mario Characters (a rather pitiful sprite comic whose only claim to fame is being the first) is up for AfD. I think it's an interesting case, and so I'm linking to it here. Nifboy 04:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Please note that we are trying to brainstorm some rational notability criteria for websites which existed in the early web era (circa 1991-1997) at WikiProject Early Web History. The current criteria are a decent filter when considering the 100 million sites on the Web today, but are too fine when considering the historical relevance of one amongst perhaps only several thousand early web pages. KWH 06:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
There is some disagreement between me and another editor about how the web site ComoAnda applies to guideline #3. The discussion can be found on my talk page. I would like to get an outside opinion on this. -- Cymsdale 23:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
If a podcast is available via the iTunes Music Store, is it being distributed by iTMS? I.e., can anybody get their podcast on iTMS, or is there enough vetting done that a podcast available there would be considered notable for Wikipedia purposes? — C.Fred ( talk) 02:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
As shown time and time again, the guideline here is sorely lacking in dealing with internet memes in particular (although I think the new changes are really horrible across the board, but that's a separate discussion). With this said, I have been trying to get input regarding creating a guideline for internet memes only, which is being discussed on and off at User:Badlydrawnjeff/Meme. I'm hoping people will throw in their two cents. -- badlydrawnjeff ( WP:MEME?) 14:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, let's look at whether these memes meet the current WP:WEB guidelines -- Dragonfiend 04:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
(Reset indent)
brenneman {T} {L} 05:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Theme | Search | Hits | Unique | Ratio | Current Web satisfied? |
"All your base are belong to us" | [26] | 473,000 | 799 | 1.7 | Y |
"Star Wars Kid" | [27] | 275,000 | 781 | 2.8 | Y |
"Badger Badger Badger" | [28] | 92,300 | 765 | 8.3 | Y |
"LUEshi" | [29] | 25,400 | 710 | 28.0 | ? |
I really don't see what the problem is. If the articles use reliable sources to build the information, then they meet guideline 1. It's that simple. At the moment LUEshi cites no sources, so that needs to be addressed. Hiding talk 10:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
The criteria are absolute bullshit. All they do is present things which need decent recognition from getting the recognition they deserve. I added a comic that I personally enjoy but do not write as I feel it deserved to be on the webcomic list. Why do other webcomics get to be here but not my favourite one? This is absurd. Things that are already exposed don't need more exposure and already have plenty of information available on them, so there's no reason why thigns like this shouldn't take equal preference. I realise this is to prevent over-flooding on articles, but most people won't bother to write a Wiki article on their comic, at least not a very big one that takes up any space or bandwidth. I fail to see what the issue is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Epicenter
Perhaps this should be labelled as a clarification of existing policy ( WP:V) as it applies to website articles, since that is basically what it now is. While WP:WEB isn't technically policy, it might as well be, since WP:V is. -- W.marsh 03:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 9 |
There needs to be something set out for Mechinimas. They arn't webcomics, and as there seem to be an increasing number of them being made, there needs to be a set of criteria for notability. Possibilities-
Dr. B 00:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to try and change tack to try and generate something more akin, I'll admit, to my own personal preferences on what notability guidelines should be attempting to define. I'll ask that people bear in mind that an encyclopedia is a written compendium of knowledge, and that Wikipedia is not paper. Let's try and expand this guideline to cover all webcontent, and so save having to revisit this argument again and again.
First up, I'll explain my motives. What I would hope we are all seeking is the prevention of the abuse of Wikipedia through spamming. These guidelines should not be an opportunity for editors to push their own view on what should and should not be included. There should be no writing of these guidelines to include or exclude any specific subject. The goal of these guidelines is rather to outline and expand upon the notion that Wikipedia is not a web directory, i.e. not a site that specializes in linking to other web sites and categorizing those links. It should also note and expand upon the fact that we do not appreciate advertising, given Wikipedia articles are not advertisements.
Taking all that on board, I've attempted a rewrite, which I hope can be discussed here rather than simply reverted. The main thrust of the rewrite is to place policies at the heart of the page, and to remove specificity. If a webcomic or a blog has won an award, that is citable, referential and verifiable. If a website or a podcast has received coverage in a publication, that is again citable, referential and verifiable. Obviously regurgitation of press releases does not amount to press coverage, so care must be taken to make note that the coverage is of an acceptable quality.
We should also note that the use of the site itself as a source comes under the caveat, from Wikipedia:Reliable sources We may not use primary sources whose information has not been made available by a credible publication. Therefore, we cannot base an article on any webcontent using only the site upon which that webcontent is displayed. Anyway, please have a read, and discuss below. I have sourced this rewrite most heavily from Wikipedia:Notability (companies and corporations). Hiding talk 11:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Wow. Just wow. Although this in some ways amounts to just chucking out tons of what we'd worked really hard to get agreement on... I can't complain. If nothing else this is a much better base to build on, and I'd strongly support anyone who reverted anything other tha nminor changes that had not been fully discussed here first. Now for my one complaint. We have as an example something whose supporting material would fail this very guideline, I believe: Many people independent of Checkerboard Nightmare have published their own reviews of the strip. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. brenneman (t) (c) 12:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Site | GoogleNews | |
http://www.sequentialtart.com | [6] | |
http://www.enterthedream.net | [7] | [8] |
http://www.comicsworthreading.com | [9] | [10] |
http://doyourowndamnedcheerleading.blogspot.com | [11] | [12] |
We are allowing something to "bootstrap" off of non-notable sites. This will allow any Joe Blog's blog that is mentioned in any other group of blogs to get in recursivly. - brenneman (t) (c) 12:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah. I'm obviously not that happy with the re-vamp. I'd suggest re-adding Keenspot, as we got a consensus on that after a long discussion. The bigger issue, however, is that I think it seems almost as if you're trying to sweep the old discussion under the carpet and hide it by archiving the old talk material and not summing it up at the same time as you implement a sweeping change. I don't think you're actually doing that, I really actually believe on more than assumption you're doing it in good faith, but it does give the impression there's not been too much discussion on it. Or something. Do you see what I mean? (Also, you've entitled the Archive "Archive 01", ignoring the 3 previous archives. I think that's a bit confusing. And I edited the archive for your typo of "ending 4th of Januray 2005") J•A•K 12:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
(I have no idea if this is even still relevent.)
(Too many edit conflict... I'm not even going to read whatever just came up for twenty minutes!)
I applaud Hiding's work. This sort of change has been bubbling up on this talk page for a while, now. (See this comment and this comment by Geogre last year for example.) I was planning on pushing for this sort of change myself. I'm pleased that it has happened, and I'm additionally pleased that the resulting discussion has not really been about the basic criteria themselves, but mainly about what good examples of the criteria in action should be given in the footnotes. Uncle G 05:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I am new to Wikipedia, and would like to understand the issue here. Is the purpose of this guideline or policy to determine when we can create an article about a given web site? If this is the case, what is the connection with verifiability? I ask the question because a link to this issue was added in Wikipedia talk:verifiability
I would recommend adding some sort of guideline that links audience size to notability, as is done with magazines and other publications. For example, if a podcast is regularly getting 1,000 downloads a week for several weeks, I would probably qualify that as notable, even if it didn't meet the other criteria. And if a website is clearly getting tens of thousands of visitors on a regular basis, that would count. Though there should probably be some sort of exclusion for the occasional slashdotting, which could bring in 20,000 visitors over the space of 24 hours on a curiosity basis, but I wouldn't count that site as "notable" unless they had substantial sustained interest. Elonka 20:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Nifboy makes a good point, and I'll add to that the response to this argument that I gave when it was argued that WP:CORP should have inclusion guidelines based upon number of employees or annual turnover: Wikipedia is not a directory. A notability criterion that says that "all podcasts with an audience of N or more are notable" produces a directory of podcasts with audiences of N or more, even if there is nothing actually to say about the podcast apart from its audience figure. It doesn't produce an encyclopaedia.
These guidelines, in contrast, work from the principle that notability is determined by the world at large, that the best way to measure notability is to see whether the world at large has already deemed something to be notable, and the best barometer of that is to see whether other people, independent of the subject in question, have expended the time and the effort to create and to publish something non-trivial of their own about it. In other words: If there's more available about a podcast or a web site from independent sources than simple directory-entry information (e.g. for web sites, the sort of information that one can glean from whois), it satisfies the primary notability criterion. Uncle G 05:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Currently, the article makes reference to both webcontent and web-specific content. Is there supposed to be a distinction: I can think of some things that would come under the heading of web content by virtue of being webcomics, but which aren't web-specific. Does that come under this? J•A•K 08:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I think this is excellent start; I'm a little afraid it may not adequately cover sites that are important precisely as research resources. I think most of these can be covered as part of the article on the associated institutions, but I suspect that there are some serious ones that may simply be websites.
Examples of the kind of thing I'm talking about are Ethnologue ( [23]), a first-rate resource on populations speaking various languages and on how languages are related to one another; IDESCATT ( [24]), a first rate statistical resource for Catalonia; or HistoryLink ( [25]), a large collection of excellently researched, well-cited articles about Seattle and environs, whose contributors include several most prominent archivists of the regions history. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:47, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
The "Notes" are now longer than the guideline. Just an observation. - brenneman (t) (c) 22:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
I like the new version of this guideline because:
I however would like to make the following change: after the criteria, saying something like:
This is somewhat implied in WP:V, but I think it would be useful to report it here. Any objection? - Liberatore( T) 13:35, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made this change. The "Reference" section allows giving a proof of notability that is not available on the Web (for example, a paper-only article on a newspaper). - Liberatore( T) 12:10, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've removed comic from under examples that was added by its author. I'm making no judgements about the actual facts in question, except to say that two examples seems plenty and that it just looks bad. If its appropiate, let someone else add it in. - brenneman (t) (c) 03:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Is the comparisons section relevant? I've seen people use google hits in debates on topics which aren't web specific, for example Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rastko Perišić, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Berom, Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Akin Sawyerr, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Humanauts, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Backwash (musical group) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lords of the rhymes. I would suggest the material is moved to Wikipedia:Notability. Hiding talk 20:41, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I was surprised to see the latest version of these guidelines fails to mention Alexa Internet rankings anymore. Whilst I disagree with their usage as the sole indicator of notability, they do provide a very good guide as to the most popular websites. Surely no-one would be disputing the fact that any of Alexa's top 500 visited websites were of sufficient notability for inclusion? Maybe the service could at least gain a mention on this page, or an inclusion in the comparisons table, since it is a genuinely good means of contrasting websites. Finally, I do wonder how many articles we have about websites which would no-longer meet these revised guidelines... └ UkPaolo/ talk┐ 15:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
As for articles that would be excluded: The point of guidelines such as these is to exclude subjects which can only ever be web directory entries because (when self-sourced material and outright original research are excluded) directory entry information is all that is available for constructing an article. If we have an article on a web site that does not satisfy the present criteria, then it will be the case that either (a) the article can never be more than a web directory entry, and not desirable because we aren't creating a web directory, or (b) the article has been padded out with original research (e.g. the participants in a web-based discussion have come to Wikipedia and written an original history of the discussion forum that has not been published anywhere outside of Wikipedia) or simply wholly unverifiable material. Uncle G 18:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Before the rewrite, the old version of this guideline explicitly stated for forums something like: "A forum of over 5,000 members that has had an impact outside of its community". This line needs to be put back in somewhere, there are MANY forum articles that were AfD'd (and eventually deleted) specifically for failing to meet this requirement. Spend any amount of time on RC Patrol and you'd see that a lot of forumcruft is created, most often by newish Wikipedians unaware of this guideline. Zunaid 07:58, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
I am a member of the mainly inactive Wikipedia:WikiProject Blogging, and I believe the current WP:WEB fails bloggers. An accurate way to measure a blog's popularity isn't through Google or Alexa - but Technorati. I suggest in any rewrite of WP:WEB, you allow all of the Top 100/200/500 blogs have an article. Compu te r Jo e 18:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the tag on this page and replaced it with not policy - these guidelines are completely erroneous, and reflect the hijacking of this notability discussion by people with a very poor understanding of several Wikipedia policies, most notably no original research. The result of these guidelines is to render hundreds of long-standing articles including at least one featured article unfit for inclusion. When your policy manipulation has reached a point of such obvious error, you have stopped creating policy. I invite any of the people involved in this debacle to take up the initiative in restoring this page to something resembling sanity. -- Phil Sandifer 00:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty evident that the items listed here are not very complete, and equally obvious that not all editors subscribe to this proposed guideline, so I'm using the phrasing "This page gives some rough guidelines which some Wikipedia editors use to decide if any form of web specific-content, being either the content of a website or the specific website itself should have an article on Wikipedia." This also takes into account the rather controversial nature of the "notability" concept in itself. There are writers who seem to be capable producong perfectly good articles without any consideration of whether their subject is "notable". Strongly inclusive wording here is therefore unjustifiable, for there is much division. -- Tony Sidaway 03:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Neglected Mario Characters (a rather pitiful sprite comic whose only claim to fame is being the first) is up for AfD. I think it's an interesting case, and so I'm linking to it here. Nifboy 04:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Please note that we are trying to brainstorm some rational notability criteria for websites which existed in the early web era (circa 1991-1997) at WikiProject Early Web History. The current criteria are a decent filter when considering the 100 million sites on the Web today, but are too fine when considering the historical relevance of one amongst perhaps only several thousand early web pages. KWH 06:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
There is some disagreement between me and another editor about how the web site ComoAnda applies to guideline #3. The discussion can be found on my talk page. I would like to get an outside opinion on this. -- Cymsdale 23:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
If a podcast is available via the iTunes Music Store, is it being distributed by iTMS? I.e., can anybody get their podcast on iTMS, or is there enough vetting done that a podcast available there would be considered notable for Wikipedia purposes? — C.Fred ( talk) 02:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
As shown time and time again, the guideline here is sorely lacking in dealing with internet memes in particular (although I think the new changes are really horrible across the board, but that's a separate discussion). With this said, I have been trying to get input regarding creating a guideline for internet memes only, which is being discussed on and off at User:Badlydrawnjeff/Meme. I'm hoping people will throw in their two cents. -- badlydrawnjeff ( WP:MEME?) 14:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, let's look at whether these memes meet the current WP:WEB guidelines -- Dragonfiend 04:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
(Reset indent)
brenneman {T} {L} 05:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Theme | Search | Hits | Unique | Ratio | Current Web satisfied? |
"All your base are belong to us" | [26] | 473,000 | 799 | 1.7 | Y |
"Star Wars Kid" | [27] | 275,000 | 781 | 2.8 | Y |
"Badger Badger Badger" | [28] | 92,300 | 765 | 8.3 | Y |
"LUEshi" | [29] | 25,400 | 710 | 28.0 | ? |
I really don't see what the problem is. If the articles use reliable sources to build the information, then they meet guideline 1. It's that simple. At the moment LUEshi cites no sources, so that needs to be addressed. Hiding talk 10:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
The criteria are absolute bullshit. All they do is present things which need decent recognition from getting the recognition they deserve. I added a comic that I personally enjoy but do not write as I feel it deserved to be on the webcomic list. Why do other webcomics get to be here but not my favourite one? This is absurd. Things that are already exposed don't need more exposure and already have plenty of information available on them, so there's no reason why thigns like this shouldn't take equal preference. I realise this is to prevent over-flooding on articles, but most people won't bother to write a Wiki article on their comic, at least not a very big one that takes up any space or bandwidth. I fail to see what the issue is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Epicenter
Perhaps this should be labelled as a clarification of existing policy ( WP:V) as it applies to website articles, since that is basically what it now is. While WP:WEB isn't technically policy, it might as well be, since WP:V is. -- W.marsh 03:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)