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Over in the AFD for the York School, there's a discussion about the validity of using directory entries to establish notability. My essential argument is that directories typically either include everything they can, or charge a fee, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary it can be assumed to be one or the other; given that, they aren't really a good source for establishing notability.
I don't mind speaking in general or in this specific case, but could anyone weigh in and/or give some guidance to applying policy in this sort of situation? SamBC 14:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
What is the status of a company that is the developer, producer, and/or distributor of multiple notable products, but does not itself meet WP:CORP's primary criterion? Such companies may attract multiple incoming wikilinks and may be common search terms due to their association with notable products, but they don't have a clear redirect target. Possible ways to handle these companies that occured to me:
How do other editors suggest dealing with this sort of company? -- Muchness 22:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
The guidelines state that articles must demonstrate notability of the subject. Is it possible to achieve the reverse in a dispute - to demonstrate non-notability?
For example, imagine there are a couple of mentions of the website example.com in the online press which are being used to demonstrate notability of the website. Is it legitimate to use statistics from Alexa showing extremely low usage of the website example.com to actively demonstrate non-notability? Will this carry weight in a notability dispute? TreveX talk 13:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I recently nominated many software articles for deletion, that contained no third party sources, claiming they failed WP:NOTABILITY. Some of the users who contributed to the AfD discussions, gave links to websites, as asserting notability.
Hopefully someone who knows more than me about this can answer my questions.
Can two minor press release republications in mid-size media count as notability verifiers, like here eComXpo? If they do, then WP:CORP is dead. If any company who gets two articles is notable, there is no reason to have this special section: WP:N would do. Thanks!-- Cerejota 01:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
In working on a specific set of guidelines for charities/non-profits please drop me a note. -- BozMo talk 05:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
The text of WP:CORP deals with companies as well as their products and services. However, as a user has pointed out to me here, this is not reflected in the introductory sentence. I propose to change it to:
Any objections? -- B. Wolterding 16:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I support but prefer: "The following is a tool to help determine whether an organization (commercial or otherwise), or any of its products and services, are a valid subject for a Wikipedia article." -- Kevin Murray 21:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed that the notability subguidelines be deprecated with the salient points being merged into the main notability guideline and the remaining subguidelines merged & deprecated to essay status. Please join the centralized discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability#Merge proposal. Vassyana 01:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Are there any specific guidelines for notability for shopping centres outside of those of WP:CORP)? For Afds, I often based it on size, nb of stores and sometimes the popularity or special aspects of it? I had seen sometimes in some discussions that size doesn't give immediate notability,, or that 50-100 or more stores makes it immediately notable.-- JForget 18:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
The intro statement "The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose" makes this guidleline conflict with other guidelines that cover more narrow topics, such as WP:BAND. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont] ‹(-¿-)› 15:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Forgive me if this has been brought up before. Since companies are organizations, why are they both mentioned in the title? Seems to me like this should be renamed to Wikipedia:Notability (organizations), where part of the content was before the merge, to avoid redundancy. Picaroon (t) 02:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed an explosion of references to iTunes store. Lot of album or single pages now state: "This album is available in iTunes mediastore" or something like that ( example; example; example; example). Others are clearly and simply built around iTunes references ( example). Thought of course I didn't make a full research, it looks like nothing less than a media manipulation. Just image if on every alimentary product page there would a reference like "you can find meat on your local Wal-Mart store" or "you can buy marshmallows on every Wal-Mart retailer". The fact an album was released on iTunes a certain day is not relevant per se, and anyway it could be said as "released on internet that day". Besides, what if someone would write on every song page "you can download it for free on the well know p2p client eMule"? So, I suggest to establish a policy against such notes, who are simply promotional. 82.226.217.121 ( talk) 04:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if it's what was intended, but, having been through this AfD - Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Blogads - it appears that thousands of companies will be classed as notable and therefore eligible for inclusion. Speaking for the UK, just about every company listed on the stock exchange and the major unlisted companies, some 2,000, will at some time have had a couple of articles written about them in national newspapers, giving sufficient depth of coverage. Multiply that for all the other English speaking countries covered by English WP and I imagine that you'll be approaching 20,000 potential articles. Reasonable ? -- John ( Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 13:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Has there been any discussion regarding special handling of articles about military units? Or is the consensus to just apply the standard notability guidelines for organizations. Sancho 01:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I've got a running discussion going right now about the notability of a 100-watt radio station in New York state. Almost every college and university in the U.S. has these little 50-100-watt stations, many of them not receivable much off campus (unless they stream online); hey, I was on one myself back around 1973-74. I'm rather dubious about the allegation that they are inherently notable. Comments? -- Orange Mike | Talk 15:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that there are many notable university radio stations, but having a license and a web page (with or without streaming audio) doesn't seem to establish notability. I suggest using the notability guideline Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) which gives consideration to an organization that has been the subject of multiple non-trivial, reliable published works. I would not consider a license, station/DJ website or broadcast schedules to be non-trivial. Winning awards from international or larger national organizations such as the European Broadcasting Union or the National Association of Broadcasters should also be a factor, or even Collegiate Broadcasters, Inc. but not an award from local organizations such as the Jaycees. My €0.02 worth.
Why don't you take a trip to northern New York and interview some Oswegoians. Ask them how much WNYO broadcasts of Laker Hockey means to them? Tell them WNYO isn't notable. - FancyMustard ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
On 18 Feb, user:IZAK added a section here exempting essentially all religious organizations from this section of the policy, arguing that they are not organizations in the above sense and because they are connected to Religion cannot be measured by the above guidelines and need to be assessed by expert editors familiar with each type of religious body concerned, commencing with the Wikiproject of each religion in question. I am not yet ready to make that kind of blanket statement. I think that for the most part, this page does an adequate job of helping editors filter out the encyclopedic from non-encyclopedic even for religious topics.
I certainly do not concede that only the "expert editors" familiar with that particular religion should have sole jurisdiction over determining whether and in what level of detail Wikipedia ought to cover a topic. That smacks of conflict of interest.
Before summarily adding in such a section, I think we need a clearer discussion of what topics ought to and ought not to be included, then determine whether this page, as written works well or not. Rossami (talk) 14:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi everyone, thank you for your willingness to discuss this matter. Let me just reproduce again the guidelines for "religious bodies":
Firstly few can sit in judgment as to what makes a "religious body" notable or not (not talking about the usual requirements of good sources) so that if a church or synagogue or mosque has a small membership, or may even be defunct, yet it if it has, or had had, a long and recorded history, it cannot be called "not notable" by any standard. Secondly, it is basically impossible to differentiate between a "religious building and sanctuary" and its mission, or conversely, sometimes it is it's mission that makes the sanctuary notable. This is, after all religion we are talking about, and not a franchise to sell coffee drinks. The fact that Starbucks coffee is sold in a building does not make the building into a "sanctuary" of anything, but if a building has housed a religious place or person it often may become an eternal shrine and holy place important to that religion. This should be quite obvious. Thirdly, as for User Rossami ( talk · contribs)'s allegations, and others who did not look up what I inserted, I never stated that "sole jurisdiction over determining whether and in what level of detail Wikipedia ought to cover a topic" but this is what I stated there, articles "need to be assessed by expert editors familiar with each type of religious body concerned, commencing with the Wikiproject of each religion in question" which is very different. After all the sum and value of Wikipedia are its editors and nominal experts and writers on topics, and NOT the people who sit around making up rules that could stand in the way of helping Wikipedia grow. Bureaucratic powers should be used to encourage MORE and NOT less editing and contributions. And sure, when the situation calls for it, let's have discussion and votes but not rely solely on veto powers of "shoot on sight" to blow incipient articles out of the water without ever getting input from the experienced editors in Wikiprojects. No-one can claim that all of Wikipedia's editors or admins are experts in everything and the purpose of the individual Wikiperojects is to enable editors with expertise in fields to express themselves and they at least should be called in for " second opnions" at a minimum. Admins MUST resist the temptation of acting haughtily and arrogantly and must realize that they too are editors that must seek consensus from other editors who care and have knowldege about other subjects. Editors at Wikiprojects need not be feared and denigrated (why does Wikipedia encourage and have ethem then, are they "kindergarten playpens"?) and Wikipedia has enough mechanisms to deal with any so-called conflicts of interests if and when they arise. No need to fight ghosts and set up non-existent strawmen. By the way, whose "interests" and what if the "conflict" is not something that can be defined quickly or simply? Fourthly, no-one is suggesting that the religious bodies should get a "free pass" but neither should they be lumped in with categories that they do not match or reflect. It is highly surprising that User Shirahadasha ( talk · contribs) can baldly state: "Although I doubt a blanket exemption for religious organizations is within the permitted range, special criteria analagous to the ones Wikipedia has for schools, pornographic actors, sports figures, and other high-traffic categories would be possible" when (a) no "blanket exemption" is being sought nor suggested, (b) yet admits that there is a need for other categories that have "high traffic" and (c) and be so cavalier and downgrading of religious bodies while at the same time elevating on a pedestal " schools, pornographic actors, sports figures". Totally absurd, and most certainly insulting to religions to which the vast majority of the human race belongs. Fifthly, User Aboutmovies ( talk · contribs) makes false allegations by saying "Not every religious group nor every church is notable, same as not every politician or company or building is notable. Allowing every religious organization a free pass would allow for 'Bob's Church and Hot Dog Stand' to become an article without any RS" when no-one is suggesting that in any way. Plenty of these kinds of religious quackery get deleted, but at the same time it is very easy for openly atheist or anti-religious editors or admins to just throw out the baby with the dirty bathwater via prods and hasty deletes of key and notable articles when they bump into something like synagogue stubs or brief articles about genuine small churches or mosques that are indeed notable in their own right and they would have found this out only if they had first bothered to contact the active editors at relevant Wikiprojects who know what is junk and what is not because they deal with the topic and are sensitive to it. Often, contacting creators of articles alone is not enough, as they may have left Wikipedia or are away for a long time. My experience at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism is that when any editor has any sort of question about any subject relating to Jews and Judaism, there is always a response and guidance or advice is offered. Usually such Wikiprojects have a number of admins involved as well so that there are more levels of competence involved than just that of the Wikiproject's subject matter. Sixthly, how ridiculous is it to say that "if they make the newspapers they are notable" as does User Aboutmovies ( talk · contribs) (religious bodies are not reviewed in newspapers like movies by the way, in case you wish to know, if anything the media is scornful of religion and seizes any opportunity to mock and undermine anything to do with religious life anywhere.) In any case, this is the Internet age now, Wikipedia is a digital medium and there are digital resources available about everything and more coming online every minute. Sure it's nice if a newspaper says something about a synagogue or church, but that is not going to the heart of the matter in any way whatsoever. A church or synagogue may have been in a community for a hundred or two hundred years (longer than the movies or papers that get such "notable" coverage in Wikipedia), and played a critical and central role in the histories of those communities. There are books, essays and personal accounts of these things. As always WP:CITE and WP:V are vital. There are only thirteen million Jews in the world and about half are in the USA, and less Hindus in the USA, so does each synagogue or ashram have to produce Earth-shattering news to be regarded as "notable"? Nope! Because it has nothing to do with the purpose of a synagogue or ashram or its role in Jewish or Hindu life to get into the papers or TV shows. There may have been great religious teachings revealed there. Famous rabbis may have served there. They were maybe the conerstones of that community's rise (and fall). Similarly for all religious bodies. Religion is not commerce and it's not show business it has its own criteria and definitions as does any unique field. By example, rocket science is not the same as soccer, and never shall the twain meet. What makes a scientist and a laboratory notable is not the same as what makes a soccer player or soccer field notable. Does anyone question all the soccer players and teams that are on Wikipedia? Nope! Finally, to repeat, no-one is asking for or stated "exemptions" for anything. On the contrary, the request is being made that Wikipedia must reach DEEPER INTO ITSELF and use its own editors and experts in the fields usually to be found in Wikiprojects and that their views be actively solicited or that a blanket rule be drawn up, that if an article or stub or category or pic or template is brought up for deletion in ANY field, that a notice be placed either on that subject's deletion notice board or on its related Wikiproject and preferably both so that ALL currently active editors who care and KNOW something about each and every subject be allowed to have a say and contribute to what is essentially their area of expertise and provide their professional opinion and input about the intended action to delete -- and that not doing so would a violation of some sort. Sincerely. IZAK ( talk) 08:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Rossami, I think you are being too panicky. In contrast, DGG is making sound suggestions that I agree with. What I am saying is that the very well known guidelines that one finds on all the "how to" pages for deletions, that suggest that when an article/category/template/picture etc is nominated for deletion that the creator of that self-same relevant article/category/template/picture should be contacted on his user talk page and there are even well-used templates for that, even for grades of users, such as one finds at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion:
So that all I am saying is that just as "...it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the articles that you are nominating for deletion" that it should also be added that a nominator should place a notification on the Wikiproject/s associated with that article -- since if the nominator is so cock-sure that the article must go, then presumably he will be very well-versed with that subject and know exactly which Wikiproject/s need/s to be informed and how to find it, and if not, he should not be nominating the article/s for deletion in the first place. This will in turn alert editors on Wikiprojects that an article/category/template/picture that may be potentially very important to their subject is about to be shot down -- without their knowledge -- something that would naturally upset them. The converse of your fear is true, that rather than the present state of "shot-in-the-dark" nominations that often appear more like "hatchet jobs" and massacres, as often happens articles in editors' areas of expertise are threatened or eliminated, when Wikipedia should be gaining from the experts as they are alerted and are able to render a maturer judgment that may go beyond the pious invocation of this or that policy guideline when the integrity of a subject as a whole is at stake. I think that Wikiprojects are great and have brought a great sense of community and belonging to editors who share common interests. I do not fear malcontents as there are more than enough policies and measures to control or get rid of them. This is all very simple and should neither frustrate nor complicate anything. Thanks, IZAK ( talk) 06:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Note: I see that it actually says: "Also consider notifying WikiProjects listed on the discussion page" in the above! Good! It needs to become better known and more ingraine as well. IZAK ( talk) 06:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
In what is starting to seem more like harrassment than a truth-seeking discussion, an editor at Church of Divine Science is asserting that this institution is not notable. Rather than making the case here, could you all take a look at the article?
Also, is there a method for resolving these disputes? Thanks, Madman ( talk) 13:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I've been trying to create a page for DJC, an important production company in the city of Knoxville (with satellite offices in LA). DJC created the first purely digitally edited short, was recently nominated for an Emmy, has received a variety of awards in the industry and has received plenty of press coverage. Yet my article was speedily deleted, and when I inquired as to what I should change to make it acceptable, the admin was less than helpful. I have reviewed the notoriety guidelines and believe that the page fulfills them (and I could add more if it could be undeleted). There are pages for other similar companies (see:
AC Entertainment) which are significantly less elaborate and which cite significantly less references. Since nobody will tell me what to change, I'm going to post what I have here in hopes that somebody will tell me what to change in order to get undeleted, or else just undelete me. (I'm new here, I'm trying to learn!)
Dingstersdie (
talk)
18:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
DoubleJay Creative is a visual media production company founded by Larsen Jay
[1] in 2005. DJC specializes in television specials, commercials, documentary, educational & corporate films supported by a dynamic web and graphic design department. DoubleJay Creative draws on comprehensive production facilities, an international creative staff and the latest technologies to meet clients' visual needs. Larsen’s first film, Pinmonkeys
[2], was the first film ever to be entirely shot and edited digitally
[3]. Larsen's wife Adrian Jay joined the company in 2006, beginning in production but now heading up the development team.
[4] DJC has a satellite office in L.A.
One major project that DJC completed was "Bijou Theatre: The Gem of the South," which was funded in part by the city. Knoxville's historic [ Bijou Theatre] re-opened after extensive renovations in June 2006. DoubleJay Creative partnered with [ AC Entertainment] to produce the celebration that included the production of a documentary retracing the history of this local landmark. The film premiered before a live audience and was simulcast on the local NBC affiliate, WBIR TV10. It won a Silver Telly Award, the award organization's highest honor, [5] and was honored with a nomination for a regional Emmy Award from the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.
"[Producer Dominic] Moore is gathering as much detail about the pre-Bijou Lamar House as about the theater itself; he’s turned up a few details not widely known, for example, that former presidential candidate John C. Breckinridge gave an incendiary secessionist speech there in 1861. Moore also looked into the 1877 visit of President Rutherford B. Hayes, and was impressed that, when he called the Hayes Presidential Library in Ohio, they already seemed to know all about the visit. “They said, ‘Oh, yeah, he was in Knoxville then.’” Through them he found some of Hayes’ own rapturous descriptions of the East Tennessee countryside, and the first documented photo of Hayes’ speech there—useful, because it’s needed to replace a long misattributed photo of a political rally historians had assumed was a photo of the Hayes visit."
DoubleJay Creative won a Silver Telly in 2007 at the 28th annual Telly Awards for "Welcome to Union College." The Silver Telly is the highest honor awarded. [6] They were also winners of 2007's 37th Annual Creativity Awards. [7] DJC was awarded an Aegis Award in 2006 for "Bijou Theatre: The Gem of the South" [8] and a Davey Award in the same year for the Bijou's event program. [9]
In 2006 Larsen authored a book, "What If Cows Could..." which was illustrated by Laurie Faust. [10] It was co-published by DoubleJay Creative in cooperation with Bear Hug Books (an imprint of MidAmerica Publishing Corporation), and MidAmerica publishing donates a portion of the proceeds from all sales to the Save My Shelter Fund. The Fund was developed to help animal shelters nationwide promote community education, animal rescue and care and provide money to aid adoption programs that find loving homes for needy animals.
DoubleJay Creative has been an active force in Knoxville's urban development. In 2005 DJC was the driving force behind bringing back Knoxville's Holidays on Ice, a skating rink on Market Square which had been closed for a decade. [11] In 2007 a non-profit organization, Center City Events [2], was founded to administrate the day-to-day workings of the rink. [12] DJC has also been involved in philanthropy: the annual Joy of Music School fundraiser raises significant amounts of money for this local non-profit. [13]
Does anyone else think that Senang Hati Foundation and Smile Foundation of Bali are non-notable? Those articles are basically advertising, and the references and external links are also just advertising for the organizations. The only article that links to Senang Hati Foundation is Tampaksiring, which was also written by the same author, and the only article that links to Smile Foundation of Bali is Cleft lip and palate, in which the same author added a link in the "See also" section. [3]. Ideascomes ( talk) 20:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
A quote from the Senang Hati Foundation article: "Senang Hati Foundation was begun in 2001 by an Australian man who is himself disabled. He and a small number of friends went into villages…" I think the author of the article is either the founder or one of his friends. Ideascomes ( talk) 20:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
The guideline is for a "company, corporation, organization, team, religion, group, product, or service." In these modern times, a "group" doesn't have to be organized by traditional means to consider itself a "group". I'm thinking here of online communities of bloggers & forums. People really do feel themselves as involved members of a group, tho their real identities, ages, addresses etc. may be unknown to each other and no one can say how many people are involved. (We are, in fact, such a community of involved, often anonymous, editors in an online community.)
Now, these involved people will consider their cause notable. They devote a large part of their lives to it. How to convince them that it isn't notable in the encyclopaedic sense?
Case in point: in my opinion, polyphasic sleeping means sleeping at least two, probably more, episodes each day/night. (Bi-phasic sleeping is a good nights sleep + a siesta; poly should probably mean more than two.) Infants, some old people, many animals and perhaps some pre-industrial societies do it. These last 5 years the term has been "taken over" by online communities who even call themselves "poly phasers," written as two words, and they have a specific purpose for their activity. Their article Everyman sleep schedule has been deleted; it's now a redirect. Their article Uberman's sleep schedule is presently up for deletion. They've pretty much hijacked the article Polyphasic sleep, which concerns me. I can't see that this new fad is at all notable by Wikipedia's standards. How should one tackle that, and is this type of "group" included in this guide? -- Hordaland ( talk) 03:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Schools, businesses, neighborhoods and neighborhood associations, youth organizations, service clubs, churches, and the like routinely receive coverage in local media. Over time, this can technically meet WP:V. However, if it is only locally notable and there is zero or nearly zero coverage outside of the local area, is it encyclopedic?
For example, a small-town newspaper may cover the happenings of every civic organization, church, and school in town every week, but those entities are probably no more or less notable than similar entities in big cities, which may get only sporadic or no significant media coverage. Is Smallville Elementary School or Brownie Troop 101 any more notable than Metropolis Public School 15 or its Cub Scout Pack, just because the Talon covers its local school and youth organizations every week and The Daily Planet doesn't?
Of course, LuthorCorp is notable in its own right. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs)/( e-mail) 18:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Is the Hong Kong Legends article notable enough? Should it be nominated for deletion? Sorry I'm not familiar with wikipedia policy here. -- 59.101.230.47 ( talk) 01:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
With two current AFD discussions ongoing - Money Reform Party and Spectre (political party) - I have done some looking around to find if Wiki has any detailed discussions or policy on political parties. I note that general WP:N policy says failed candidates are almost always not notable (although Catherine Taylor-Dawson is certainly a special case) but nothing specifically on political parties. In the case of the two above, the former has stood in just one UK by-election getting less than 5% of the vote; the latter has never stood in any elections at all in the 2 years of its existance. If possible could someone direct me to existing party political policy discussions, or is this an area in need of greater attention? I note that my request for discussion at the fledging WikiProject Political Parties has not yet recived much attention Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Political_Parties doktorb words deeds 15:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I changed the wording of the chief notability guideline from saying simply coverage to significant coverage, to track the wording of the general notability guideline. I also recast a sentence that seemed slightly awkward to me. I hope these aren't controversial edits.
I've been thinking about ways to tighten this up further. Business tends to generate a lot of paper generally. There are dozens of trade journals out there that you never heard of. Publicity and advertising businesses seem to generate a sub-industry to congratulate each other and bestow various awards on each other's campaigns.
Not sure exactly how I'd want to phrase it, but I think that businesses should have to prove some measure of notability among the general public, as opposed to claims of notability within their industry. Mention in trade publications circulated within a particular industry in which a business participates should not confer notability; mention in general circulation business publications like Business Week or The Wall Street Journal should be the standard. Likewise, awards and recognitions handed out by industry groups should not confer notability, unless these awards are noticed by general interest or widely circulated business publications, either.
The same should be true of new management theories and philosophies. Business, like school-teaching, really isn't an academic subject, so the professors and journals that discuss them in academic settings tend to hide behind the wall of bad prose. Proposed management theories from academic settings should require some measure of general circulation among non-academic publications, and at least rise to the level of management fads, before becoming notable enough. - Smerdis of Tlön ( talk) 15:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
my mentor gave me the advise to go here and ask you for help. I just wrote an article about a company and would like to make sure that it meets the criteria for notability as I don't want it to be removed again after being published. On the german site it's already online. UNfortunately the references are all in German, although the company is internationally operating but it's a Austrian company. Please look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nisse149 and give me your feedback! Thank you very much!!! 27.6.2008 -- Nisse149 ( talk) 07:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)Nisse 149
See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Transport/Bus articles. MickMacNee ( talk) 15:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
An issue arose on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spencer Roloson Winery regarding WP:CORP. Here we have an organization that "has been the subject of significant coverage" in a reliable independent secondary source. Basically, one issue of a wine magazine contained a profile article of this small start-up winery.
By the "letter of the law" this seems to qualify under WP:CORP. However, that same wine magazine profiles wineries all the time, it's their job. And the magazine article written on this particular winery is practically boilerplate, saying nothing notable about it. As I wrote in the AfD discussion, you could search-and-replace the organization name with another in the same business, make a few minor changes to fit, and the magazine article could be about any of hundreds of non-notable organizations like the subject.
I fail to see how that makes an organization notable in the spirit of the WP:CORP guideline. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 03:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
There is a proposal for a new notability guideline: Wikipedia:Notability (political parties). Warofdreams talk 15:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
User:DanielPenfield made changes to the product section; I reverted, thinking it made sense to have a discusion here first. He reverted my revert, citing Wikipedia:Editing_policy#Boldness in his edit summary (which I think applies only to articles, not to policies or guidelines). Not wanting to get into an edit war, I not going to remove his changes a second time, and am starting the discussion here. As far as the content of his edit, he misquotes the A7 speedy deletion policy, which does not apply to products or services. I think there are other issues; anyone else want to weigh in? UnitedStatesian ( talk) 20:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
"Reference" number | Hyperlink | Assessment |
---|---|---|
1 | http://www.web2weblog.com/50226711/productivity_with_a_z.php | Product review in some non-notable guy's blog |
2 | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/zcubes_trying_to_do_it_all.php | Product review in Wikipedia:Spam blacklisted e-zine readwriteweb |
3 | http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-9708551-2.html | Two-sentence mention in article that is really about Web 2.0 Expo conference |
4 | http://profy.com/2006/12/23/zcubes-portal | Product review article in non-notable e-zine that admits it doesn't contain original content, just rehashes of Wikipedia:Spam_blacklisted e-zine product review (readwriteweb) and non-notable guy's blog entry http://rexdixon.wordpress.com/2006/12/15/zcubes/ |
5 | http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2006/09/office_generati.php | Product review in some non-notable guy's blog |
6 | http://www.cis.lagcc.cuny.edu/newmediaday2.html | Laguardia community college "New Media Technology Day" featuring a ZCubes executive as a special guest, contains photos with captions, but nothing citable, in particular no mention of ZCubes, the product (only ZCubes, Inc., the company in identifying the executive's employer) |
7 | http://altsearchengines.com/2007/11/11/the-top-5-web-applications-i-want-for-christmas/ | Seven-sentence promotional placement in non-notable buyer's guide |
I am certain this topic has come up before, but I can't seem to find it in the archives associated with this page, unfortunately. It is not uncommon for a small (or new) company's flagship product to receive significant press but the company itself only receive incidental coverage in articles about that product. An oft used argument at AfD is that "notability is not inherited", which I agree with in general; this works well when such a company has only a single notable product (discuss company in product article, not unlike WP:BLP1E). However, as in the case of 9th Level Games, companies with notable products can be problematic in that the 'merge company to notable product' does not work unless one applies 'merge company to each notable product' ... which is one solution. An alternative solution is to wave the notion that notability is not inherited and specifically apply it to companies with multiple notable products. A third solution might be to ensure that a section on the company is included in an appropriate aggregation or list-type article. Thoughts on precedents as to how to deal with this 'notable products - company without demonstrable notability' issue? Thanks --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 01:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
It is my opinion that every publicly traded company in any stock exchange of the world, with a market capitalization of at least $100 million or currency equivalent, deserves at least a stub. I think it's enough to meet notability requirements. What do you think? -- Itemirus Talk Page 16:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I personally agree that companies listed on a major stock exchange (e.g. NYSE, NASDAQ as US-centric examples) should be assumed to be notable. I don't see the need for additional numerical criteria and share the concern above about gaming the system or arbitrariness. However, my view is not universally shared. There has been considerable discussion of this (see archives of this page) with the following consensus, at least by my interpretation
I personally think that the last point is a strawman argument. As a result, there is the altogether too frequent situation that stubs on clearly notable public companies are put up for deletion or speedied, because no more "traditional" sources have been provided by the writer, and some user passing by suspects non-notability or spam. I propose the following addition to the notability guideline for discussion, one which I think represents consensus.
Discussion please? Martinp ( talk) 00:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
Over in the AFD for the York School, there's a discussion about the validity of using directory entries to establish notability. My essential argument is that directories typically either include everything they can, or charge a fee, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary it can be assumed to be one or the other; given that, they aren't really a good source for establishing notability.
I don't mind speaking in general or in this specific case, but could anyone weigh in and/or give some guidance to applying policy in this sort of situation? SamBC 14:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
What is the status of a company that is the developer, producer, and/or distributor of multiple notable products, but does not itself meet WP:CORP's primary criterion? Such companies may attract multiple incoming wikilinks and may be common search terms due to their association with notable products, but they don't have a clear redirect target. Possible ways to handle these companies that occured to me:
How do other editors suggest dealing with this sort of company? -- Muchness 22:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
The guidelines state that articles must demonstrate notability of the subject. Is it possible to achieve the reverse in a dispute - to demonstrate non-notability?
For example, imagine there are a couple of mentions of the website example.com in the online press which are being used to demonstrate notability of the website. Is it legitimate to use statistics from Alexa showing extremely low usage of the website example.com to actively demonstrate non-notability? Will this carry weight in a notability dispute? TreveX talk 13:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I recently nominated many software articles for deletion, that contained no third party sources, claiming they failed WP:NOTABILITY. Some of the users who contributed to the AfD discussions, gave links to websites, as asserting notability.
Hopefully someone who knows more than me about this can answer my questions.
Can two minor press release republications in mid-size media count as notability verifiers, like here eComXpo? If they do, then WP:CORP is dead. If any company who gets two articles is notable, there is no reason to have this special section: WP:N would do. Thanks!-- Cerejota 01:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
In working on a specific set of guidelines for charities/non-profits please drop me a note. -- BozMo talk 05:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
The text of WP:CORP deals with companies as well as their products and services. However, as a user has pointed out to me here, this is not reflected in the introductory sentence. I propose to change it to:
Any objections? -- B. Wolterding 16:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I support but prefer: "The following is a tool to help determine whether an organization (commercial or otherwise), or any of its products and services, are a valid subject for a Wikipedia article." -- Kevin Murray 21:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed that the notability subguidelines be deprecated with the salient points being merged into the main notability guideline and the remaining subguidelines merged & deprecated to essay status. Please join the centralized discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability#Merge proposal. Vassyana 01:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Are there any specific guidelines for notability for shopping centres outside of those of WP:CORP)? For Afds, I often based it on size, nb of stores and sometimes the popularity or special aspects of it? I had seen sometimes in some discussions that size doesn't give immediate notability,, or that 50-100 or more stores makes it immediately notable.-- JForget 18:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
The intro statement "The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose" makes this guidleline conflict with other guidelines that cover more narrow topics, such as WP:BAND. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont] ‹(-¿-)› 15:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Forgive me if this has been brought up before. Since companies are organizations, why are they both mentioned in the title? Seems to me like this should be renamed to Wikipedia:Notability (organizations), where part of the content was before the merge, to avoid redundancy. Picaroon (t) 02:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed an explosion of references to iTunes store. Lot of album or single pages now state: "This album is available in iTunes mediastore" or something like that ( example; example; example; example). Others are clearly and simply built around iTunes references ( example). Thought of course I didn't make a full research, it looks like nothing less than a media manipulation. Just image if on every alimentary product page there would a reference like "you can find meat on your local Wal-Mart store" or "you can buy marshmallows on every Wal-Mart retailer". The fact an album was released on iTunes a certain day is not relevant per se, and anyway it could be said as "released on internet that day". Besides, what if someone would write on every song page "you can download it for free on the well know p2p client eMule"? So, I suggest to establish a policy against such notes, who are simply promotional. 82.226.217.121 ( talk) 04:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if it's what was intended, but, having been through this AfD - Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Blogads - it appears that thousands of companies will be classed as notable and therefore eligible for inclusion. Speaking for the UK, just about every company listed on the stock exchange and the major unlisted companies, some 2,000, will at some time have had a couple of articles written about them in national newspapers, giving sufficient depth of coverage. Multiply that for all the other English speaking countries covered by English WP and I imagine that you'll be approaching 20,000 potential articles. Reasonable ? -- John ( Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 13:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Has there been any discussion regarding special handling of articles about military units? Or is the consensus to just apply the standard notability guidelines for organizations. Sancho 01:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I've got a running discussion going right now about the notability of a 100-watt radio station in New York state. Almost every college and university in the U.S. has these little 50-100-watt stations, many of them not receivable much off campus (unless they stream online); hey, I was on one myself back around 1973-74. I'm rather dubious about the allegation that they are inherently notable. Comments? -- Orange Mike | Talk 15:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that there are many notable university radio stations, but having a license and a web page (with or without streaming audio) doesn't seem to establish notability. I suggest using the notability guideline Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) which gives consideration to an organization that has been the subject of multiple non-trivial, reliable published works. I would not consider a license, station/DJ website or broadcast schedules to be non-trivial. Winning awards from international or larger national organizations such as the European Broadcasting Union or the National Association of Broadcasters should also be a factor, or even Collegiate Broadcasters, Inc. but not an award from local organizations such as the Jaycees. My €0.02 worth.
Why don't you take a trip to northern New York and interview some Oswegoians. Ask them how much WNYO broadcasts of Laker Hockey means to them? Tell them WNYO isn't notable. - FancyMustard ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
On 18 Feb, user:IZAK added a section here exempting essentially all religious organizations from this section of the policy, arguing that they are not organizations in the above sense and because they are connected to Religion cannot be measured by the above guidelines and need to be assessed by expert editors familiar with each type of religious body concerned, commencing with the Wikiproject of each religion in question. I am not yet ready to make that kind of blanket statement. I think that for the most part, this page does an adequate job of helping editors filter out the encyclopedic from non-encyclopedic even for religious topics.
I certainly do not concede that only the "expert editors" familiar with that particular religion should have sole jurisdiction over determining whether and in what level of detail Wikipedia ought to cover a topic. That smacks of conflict of interest.
Before summarily adding in such a section, I think we need a clearer discussion of what topics ought to and ought not to be included, then determine whether this page, as written works well or not. Rossami (talk) 14:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi everyone, thank you for your willingness to discuss this matter. Let me just reproduce again the guidelines for "religious bodies":
Firstly few can sit in judgment as to what makes a "religious body" notable or not (not talking about the usual requirements of good sources) so that if a church or synagogue or mosque has a small membership, or may even be defunct, yet it if it has, or had had, a long and recorded history, it cannot be called "not notable" by any standard. Secondly, it is basically impossible to differentiate between a "religious building and sanctuary" and its mission, or conversely, sometimes it is it's mission that makes the sanctuary notable. This is, after all religion we are talking about, and not a franchise to sell coffee drinks. The fact that Starbucks coffee is sold in a building does not make the building into a "sanctuary" of anything, but if a building has housed a religious place or person it often may become an eternal shrine and holy place important to that religion. This should be quite obvious. Thirdly, as for User Rossami ( talk · contribs)'s allegations, and others who did not look up what I inserted, I never stated that "sole jurisdiction over determining whether and in what level of detail Wikipedia ought to cover a topic" but this is what I stated there, articles "need to be assessed by expert editors familiar with each type of religious body concerned, commencing with the Wikiproject of each religion in question" which is very different. After all the sum and value of Wikipedia are its editors and nominal experts and writers on topics, and NOT the people who sit around making up rules that could stand in the way of helping Wikipedia grow. Bureaucratic powers should be used to encourage MORE and NOT less editing and contributions. And sure, when the situation calls for it, let's have discussion and votes but not rely solely on veto powers of "shoot on sight" to blow incipient articles out of the water without ever getting input from the experienced editors in Wikiprojects. No-one can claim that all of Wikipedia's editors or admins are experts in everything and the purpose of the individual Wikiperojects is to enable editors with expertise in fields to express themselves and they at least should be called in for " second opnions" at a minimum. Admins MUST resist the temptation of acting haughtily and arrogantly and must realize that they too are editors that must seek consensus from other editors who care and have knowldege about other subjects. Editors at Wikiprojects need not be feared and denigrated (why does Wikipedia encourage and have ethem then, are they "kindergarten playpens"?) and Wikipedia has enough mechanisms to deal with any so-called conflicts of interests if and when they arise. No need to fight ghosts and set up non-existent strawmen. By the way, whose "interests" and what if the "conflict" is not something that can be defined quickly or simply? Fourthly, no-one is suggesting that the religious bodies should get a "free pass" but neither should they be lumped in with categories that they do not match or reflect. It is highly surprising that User Shirahadasha ( talk · contribs) can baldly state: "Although I doubt a blanket exemption for religious organizations is within the permitted range, special criteria analagous to the ones Wikipedia has for schools, pornographic actors, sports figures, and other high-traffic categories would be possible" when (a) no "blanket exemption" is being sought nor suggested, (b) yet admits that there is a need for other categories that have "high traffic" and (c) and be so cavalier and downgrading of religious bodies while at the same time elevating on a pedestal " schools, pornographic actors, sports figures". Totally absurd, and most certainly insulting to religions to which the vast majority of the human race belongs. Fifthly, User Aboutmovies ( talk · contribs) makes false allegations by saying "Not every religious group nor every church is notable, same as not every politician or company or building is notable. Allowing every religious organization a free pass would allow for 'Bob's Church and Hot Dog Stand' to become an article without any RS" when no-one is suggesting that in any way. Plenty of these kinds of religious quackery get deleted, but at the same time it is very easy for openly atheist or anti-religious editors or admins to just throw out the baby with the dirty bathwater via prods and hasty deletes of key and notable articles when they bump into something like synagogue stubs or brief articles about genuine small churches or mosques that are indeed notable in their own right and they would have found this out only if they had first bothered to contact the active editors at relevant Wikiprojects who know what is junk and what is not because they deal with the topic and are sensitive to it. Often, contacting creators of articles alone is not enough, as they may have left Wikipedia or are away for a long time. My experience at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism is that when any editor has any sort of question about any subject relating to Jews and Judaism, there is always a response and guidance or advice is offered. Usually such Wikiprojects have a number of admins involved as well so that there are more levels of competence involved than just that of the Wikiproject's subject matter. Sixthly, how ridiculous is it to say that "if they make the newspapers they are notable" as does User Aboutmovies ( talk · contribs) (religious bodies are not reviewed in newspapers like movies by the way, in case you wish to know, if anything the media is scornful of religion and seizes any opportunity to mock and undermine anything to do with religious life anywhere.) In any case, this is the Internet age now, Wikipedia is a digital medium and there are digital resources available about everything and more coming online every minute. Sure it's nice if a newspaper says something about a synagogue or church, but that is not going to the heart of the matter in any way whatsoever. A church or synagogue may have been in a community for a hundred or two hundred years (longer than the movies or papers that get such "notable" coverage in Wikipedia), and played a critical and central role in the histories of those communities. There are books, essays and personal accounts of these things. As always WP:CITE and WP:V are vital. There are only thirteen million Jews in the world and about half are in the USA, and less Hindus in the USA, so does each synagogue or ashram have to produce Earth-shattering news to be regarded as "notable"? Nope! Because it has nothing to do with the purpose of a synagogue or ashram or its role in Jewish or Hindu life to get into the papers or TV shows. There may have been great religious teachings revealed there. Famous rabbis may have served there. They were maybe the conerstones of that community's rise (and fall). Similarly for all religious bodies. Religion is not commerce and it's not show business it has its own criteria and definitions as does any unique field. By example, rocket science is not the same as soccer, and never shall the twain meet. What makes a scientist and a laboratory notable is not the same as what makes a soccer player or soccer field notable. Does anyone question all the soccer players and teams that are on Wikipedia? Nope! Finally, to repeat, no-one is asking for or stated "exemptions" for anything. On the contrary, the request is being made that Wikipedia must reach DEEPER INTO ITSELF and use its own editors and experts in the fields usually to be found in Wikiprojects and that their views be actively solicited or that a blanket rule be drawn up, that if an article or stub or category or pic or template is brought up for deletion in ANY field, that a notice be placed either on that subject's deletion notice board or on its related Wikiproject and preferably both so that ALL currently active editors who care and KNOW something about each and every subject be allowed to have a say and contribute to what is essentially their area of expertise and provide their professional opinion and input about the intended action to delete -- and that not doing so would a violation of some sort. Sincerely. IZAK ( talk) 08:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Rossami, I think you are being too panicky. In contrast, DGG is making sound suggestions that I agree with. What I am saying is that the very well known guidelines that one finds on all the "how to" pages for deletions, that suggest that when an article/category/template/picture etc is nominated for deletion that the creator of that self-same relevant article/category/template/picture should be contacted on his user talk page and there are even well-used templates for that, even for grades of users, such as one finds at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion:
So that all I am saying is that just as "...it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the articles that you are nominating for deletion" that it should also be added that a nominator should place a notification on the Wikiproject/s associated with that article -- since if the nominator is so cock-sure that the article must go, then presumably he will be very well-versed with that subject and know exactly which Wikiproject/s need/s to be informed and how to find it, and if not, he should not be nominating the article/s for deletion in the first place. This will in turn alert editors on Wikiprojects that an article/category/template/picture that may be potentially very important to their subject is about to be shot down -- without their knowledge -- something that would naturally upset them. The converse of your fear is true, that rather than the present state of "shot-in-the-dark" nominations that often appear more like "hatchet jobs" and massacres, as often happens articles in editors' areas of expertise are threatened or eliminated, when Wikipedia should be gaining from the experts as they are alerted and are able to render a maturer judgment that may go beyond the pious invocation of this or that policy guideline when the integrity of a subject as a whole is at stake. I think that Wikiprojects are great and have brought a great sense of community and belonging to editors who share common interests. I do not fear malcontents as there are more than enough policies and measures to control or get rid of them. This is all very simple and should neither frustrate nor complicate anything. Thanks, IZAK ( talk) 06:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Note: I see that it actually says: "Also consider notifying WikiProjects listed on the discussion page" in the above! Good! It needs to become better known and more ingraine as well. IZAK ( talk) 06:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
In what is starting to seem more like harrassment than a truth-seeking discussion, an editor at Church of Divine Science is asserting that this institution is not notable. Rather than making the case here, could you all take a look at the article?
Also, is there a method for resolving these disputes? Thanks, Madman ( talk) 13:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I've been trying to create a page for DJC, an important production company in the city of Knoxville (with satellite offices in LA). DJC created the first purely digitally edited short, was recently nominated for an Emmy, has received a variety of awards in the industry and has received plenty of press coverage. Yet my article was speedily deleted, and when I inquired as to what I should change to make it acceptable, the admin was less than helpful. I have reviewed the notoriety guidelines and believe that the page fulfills them (and I could add more if it could be undeleted). There are pages for other similar companies (see:
AC Entertainment) which are significantly less elaborate and which cite significantly less references. Since nobody will tell me what to change, I'm going to post what I have here in hopes that somebody will tell me what to change in order to get undeleted, or else just undelete me. (I'm new here, I'm trying to learn!)
Dingstersdie (
talk)
18:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
DoubleJay Creative is a visual media production company founded by Larsen Jay
[1] in 2005. DJC specializes in television specials, commercials, documentary, educational & corporate films supported by a dynamic web and graphic design department. DoubleJay Creative draws on comprehensive production facilities, an international creative staff and the latest technologies to meet clients' visual needs. Larsen’s first film, Pinmonkeys
[2], was the first film ever to be entirely shot and edited digitally
[3]. Larsen's wife Adrian Jay joined the company in 2006, beginning in production but now heading up the development team.
[4] DJC has a satellite office in L.A.
One major project that DJC completed was "Bijou Theatre: The Gem of the South," which was funded in part by the city. Knoxville's historic [ Bijou Theatre] re-opened after extensive renovations in June 2006. DoubleJay Creative partnered with [ AC Entertainment] to produce the celebration that included the production of a documentary retracing the history of this local landmark. The film premiered before a live audience and was simulcast on the local NBC affiliate, WBIR TV10. It won a Silver Telly Award, the award organization's highest honor, [5] and was honored with a nomination for a regional Emmy Award from the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.
"[Producer Dominic] Moore is gathering as much detail about the pre-Bijou Lamar House as about the theater itself; he’s turned up a few details not widely known, for example, that former presidential candidate John C. Breckinridge gave an incendiary secessionist speech there in 1861. Moore also looked into the 1877 visit of President Rutherford B. Hayes, and was impressed that, when he called the Hayes Presidential Library in Ohio, they already seemed to know all about the visit. “They said, ‘Oh, yeah, he was in Knoxville then.’” Through them he found some of Hayes’ own rapturous descriptions of the East Tennessee countryside, and the first documented photo of Hayes’ speech there—useful, because it’s needed to replace a long misattributed photo of a political rally historians had assumed was a photo of the Hayes visit."
DoubleJay Creative won a Silver Telly in 2007 at the 28th annual Telly Awards for "Welcome to Union College." The Silver Telly is the highest honor awarded. [6] They were also winners of 2007's 37th Annual Creativity Awards. [7] DJC was awarded an Aegis Award in 2006 for "Bijou Theatre: The Gem of the South" [8] and a Davey Award in the same year for the Bijou's event program. [9]
In 2006 Larsen authored a book, "What If Cows Could..." which was illustrated by Laurie Faust. [10] It was co-published by DoubleJay Creative in cooperation with Bear Hug Books (an imprint of MidAmerica Publishing Corporation), and MidAmerica publishing donates a portion of the proceeds from all sales to the Save My Shelter Fund. The Fund was developed to help animal shelters nationwide promote community education, animal rescue and care and provide money to aid adoption programs that find loving homes for needy animals.
DoubleJay Creative has been an active force in Knoxville's urban development. In 2005 DJC was the driving force behind bringing back Knoxville's Holidays on Ice, a skating rink on Market Square which had been closed for a decade. [11] In 2007 a non-profit organization, Center City Events [2], was founded to administrate the day-to-day workings of the rink. [12] DJC has also been involved in philanthropy: the annual Joy of Music School fundraiser raises significant amounts of money for this local non-profit. [13]
Does anyone else think that Senang Hati Foundation and Smile Foundation of Bali are non-notable? Those articles are basically advertising, and the references and external links are also just advertising for the organizations. The only article that links to Senang Hati Foundation is Tampaksiring, which was also written by the same author, and the only article that links to Smile Foundation of Bali is Cleft lip and palate, in which the same author added a link in the "See also" section. [3]. Ideascomes ( talk) 20:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
A quote from the Senang Hati Foundation article: "Senang Hati Foundation was begun in 2001 by an Australian man who is himself disabled. He and a small number of friends went into villages…" I think the author of the article is either the founder or one of his friends. Ideascomes ( talk) 20:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
The guideline is for a "company, corporation, organization, team, religion, group, product, or service." In these modern times, a "group" doesn't have to be organized by traditional means to consider itself a "group". I'm thinking here of online communities of bloggers & forums. People really do feel themselves as involved members of a group, tho their real identities, ages, addresses etc. may be unknown to each other and no one can say how many people are involved. (We are, in fact, such a community of involved, often anonymous, editors in an online community.)
Now, these involved people will consider their cause notable. They devote a large part of their lives to it. How to convince them that it isn't notable in the encyclopaedic sense?
Case in point: in my opinion, polyphasic sleeping means sleeping at least two, probably more, episodes each day/night. (Bi-phasic sleeping is a good nights sleep + a siesta; poly should probably mean more than two.) Infants, some old people, many animals and perhaps some pre-industrial societies do it. These last 5 years the term has been "taken over" by online communities who even call themselves "poly phasers," written as two words, and they have a specific purpose for their activity. Their article Everyman sleep schedule has been deleted; it's now a redirect. Their article Uberman's sleep schedule is presently up for deletion. They've pretty much hijacked the article Polyphasic sleep, which concerns me. I can't see that this new fad is at all notable by Wikipedia's standards. How should one tackle that, and is this type of "group" included in this guide? -- Hordaland ( talk) 03:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Schools, businesses, neighborhoods and neighborhood associations, youth organizations, service clubs, churches, and the like routinely receive coverage in local media. Over time, this can technically meet WP:V. However, if it is only locally notable and there is zero or nearly zero coverage outside of the local area, is it encyclopedic?
For example, a small-town newspaper may cover the happenings of every civic organization, church, and school in town every week, but those entities are probably no more or less notable than similar entities in big cities, which may get only sporadic or no significant media coverage. Is Smallville Elementary School or Brownie Troop 101 any more notable than Metropolis Public School 15 or its Cub Scout Pack, just because the Talon covers its local school and youth organizations every week and The Daily Planet doesn't?
Of course, LuthorCorp is notable in its own right. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs)/( e-mail) 18:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Is the Hong Kong Legends article notable enough? Should it be nominated for deletion? Sorry I'm not familiar with wikipedia policy here. -- 59.101.230.47 ( talk) 01:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
With two current AFD discussions ongoing - Money Reform Party and Spectre (political party) - I have done some looking around to find if Wiki has any detailed discussions or policy on political parties. I note that general WP:N policy says failed candidates are almost always not notable (although Catherine Taylor-Dawson is certainly a special case) but nothing specifically on political parties. In the case of the two above, the former has stood in just one UK by-election getting less than 5% of the vote; the latter has never stood in any elections at all in the 2 years of its existance. If possible could someone direct me to existing party political policy discussions, or is this an area in need of greater attention? I note that my request for discussion at the fledging WikiProject Political Parties has not yet recived much attention Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Political_Parties doktorb words deeds 15:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I changed the wording of the chief notability guideline from saying simply coverage to significant coverage, to track the wording of the general notability guideline. I also recast a sentence that seemed slightly awkward to me. I hope these aren't controversial edits.
I've been thinking about ways to tighten this up further. Business tends to generate a lot of paper generally. There are dozens of trade journals out there that you never heard of. Publicity and advertising businesses seem to generate a sub-industry to congratulate each other and bestow various awards on each other's campaigns.
Not sure exactly how I'd want to phrase it, but I think that businesses should have to prove some measure of notability among the general public, as opposed to claims of notability within their industry. Mention in trade publications circulated within a particular industry in which a business participates should not confer notability; mention in general circulation business publications like Business Week or The Wall Street Journal should be the standard. Likewise, awards and recognitions handed out by industry groups should not confer notability, unless these awards are noticed by general interest or widely circulated business publications, either.
The same should be true of new management theories and philosophies. Business, like school-teaching, really isn't an academic subject, so the professors and journals that discuss them in academic settings tend to hide behind the wall of bad prose. Proposed management theories from academic settings should require some measure of general circulation among non-academic publications, and at least rise to the level of management fads, before becoming notable enough. - Smerdis of Tlön ( talk) 15:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
my mentor gave me the advise to go here and ask you for help. I just wrote an article about a company and would like to make sure that it meets the criteria for notability as I don't want it to be removed again after being published. On the german site it's already online. UNfortunately the references are all in German, although the company is internationally operating but it's a Austrian company. Please look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nisse149 and give me your feedback! Thank you very much!!! 27.6.2008 -- Nisse149 ( talk) 07:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)Nisse 149
See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Transport/Bus articles. MickMacNee ( talk) 15:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
An issue arose on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spencer Roloson Winery regarding WP:CORP. Here we have an organization that "has been the subject of significant coverage" in a reliable independent secondary source. Basically, one issue of a wine magazine contained a profile article of this small start-up winery.
By the "letter of the law" this seems to qualify under WP:CORP. However, that same wine magazine profiles wineries all the time, it's their job. And the magazine article written on this particular winery is practically boilerplate, saying nothing notable about it. As I wrote in the AfD discussion, you could search-and-replace the organization name with another in the same business, make a few minor changes to fit, and the magazine article could be about any of hundreds of non-notable organizations like the subject.
I fail to see how that makes an organization notable in the spirit of the WP:CORP guideline. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 03:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
There is a proposal for a new notability guideline: Wikipedia:Notability (political parties). Warofdreams talk 15:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
User:DanielPenfield made changes to the product section; I reverted, thinking it made sense to have a discusion here first. He reverted my revert, citing Wikipedia:Editing_policy#Boldness in his edit summary (which I think applies only to articles, not to policies or guidelines). Not wanting to get into an edit war, I not going to remove his changes a second time, and am starting the discussion here. As far as the content of his edit, he misquotes the A7 speedy deletion policy, which does not apply to products or services. I think there are other issues; anyone else want to weigh in? UnitedStatesian ( talk) 20:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
"Reference" number | Hyperlink | Assessment |
---|---|---|
1 | http://www.web2weblog.com/50226711/productivity_with_a_z.php | Product review in some non-notable guy's blog |
2 | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/zcubes_trying_to_do_it_all.php | Product review in Wikipedia:Spam blacklisted e-zine readwriteweb |
3 | http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-9708551-2.html | Two-sentence mention in article that is really about Web 2.0 Expo conference |
4 | http://profy.com/2006/12/23/zcubes-portal | Product review article in non-notable e-zine that admits it doesn't contain original content, just rehashes of Wikipedia:Spam_blacklisted e-zine product review (readwriteweb) and non-notable guy's blog entry http://rexdixon.wordpress.com/2006/12/15/zcubes/ |
5 | http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2006/09/office_generati.php | Product review in some non-notable guy's blog |
6 | http://www.cis.lagcc.cuny.edu/newmediaday2.html | Laguardia community college "New Media Technology Day" featuring a ZCubes executive as a special guest, contains photos with captions, but nothing citable, in particular no mention of ZCubes, the product (only ZCubes, Inc., the company in identifying the executive's employer) |
7 | http://altsearchengines.com/2007/11/11/the-top-5-web-applications-i-want-for-christmas/ | Seven-sentence promotional placement in non-notable buyer's guide |
I am certain this topic has come up before, but I can't seem to find it in the archives associated with this page, unfortunately. It is not uncommon for a small (or new) company's flagship product to receive significant press but the company itself only receive incidental coverage in articles about that product. An oft used argument at AfD is that "notability is not inherited", which I agree with in general; this works well when such a company has only a single notable product (discuss company in product article, not unlike WP:BLP1E). However, as in the case of 9th Level Games, companies with notable products can be problematic in that the 'merge company to notable product' does not work unless one applies 'merge company to each notable product' ... which is one solution. An alternative solution is to wave the notion that notability is not inherited and specifically apply it to companies with multiple notable products. A third solution might be to ensure that a section on the company is included in an appropriate aggregation or list-type article. Thoughts on precedents as to how to deal with this 'notable products - company without demonstrable notability' issue? Thanks --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 01:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
It is my opinion that every publicly traded company in any stock exchange of the world, with a market capitalization of at least $100 million or currency equivalent, deserves at least a stub. I think it's enough to meet notability requirements. What do you think? -- Itemirus Talk Page 16:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I personally agree that companies listed on a major stock exchange (e.g. NYSE, NASDAQ as US-centric examples) should be assumed to be notable. I don't see the need for additional numerical criteria and share the concern above about gaming the system or arbitrariness. However, my view is not universally shared. There has been considerable discussion of this (see archives of this page) with the following consensus, at least by my interpretation
I personally think that the last point is a strawman argument. As a result, there is the altogether too frequent situation that stubs on clearly notable public companies are put up for deletion or speedied, because no more "traditional" sources have been provided by the writer, and some user passing by suspects non-notability or spam. I propose the following addition to the notability guideline for discussion, one which I think represents consensus.
Discussion please? Martinp ( talk) 00:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)