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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I've been considering how to apply this rule in the case of certain fairly obscure ethnic groups and languages whose native names differ from the "most common" name (I was thinking primarily of Tu people and Li people (Monguor and Hlai, respectively), although there are probably other examples). If we stipulate that Tu and Li are the most commonly used forms in English, I'm still not sure that this is the best location for the articles. The notable thing about these cases is that "Tu" and "Li" are hard to search for. There are many other things called by those names, including short words in various languages and abbreviations. If we go by "What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine?" they might well be better off with Monguor and Hlai. So, the proposed change or clarification that I am considering would be something like:
Favour the indigenous name (autonym) for a group of people or a language, if it means all three of the following conditions:
1) Even the most commonly-used name of the group is fairly obscure and rarely used in English. This definitely not meant to apply to peoples like Tibetans, Iroquois, etc. who have a widely-known English name.
2) The autonym appears in a respectable publication somewhere outside of Wikipedia. Not just something that you've heard someone say, etc.
3) The more commonly-used name is difficult to search for, e.g. because of similarity to other words.
I'm not really sure if condition #3 is really necessary, but removing it would make for a more radical proposal. - Nat Krause( Talk!) 19:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
I think this is a very bad example to use on this page because of what I percive to be the the deliberate obfuscation of "SCO" by the SCO Group of the original The Santa Cruz Operation. There must be hundreds of clearer examples which could be used than this one-- Philip Baird Shearer 14:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I had not seen the discussion Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions (common names)/Archive 01#Most obvious?. Francis as more than one person has independently picked up on this, I really think you should reconsider you position as several people have flagged it as an unsound example. As I said before, there must be hundreds of clearer examples which could be used than this one. If a TLA is going to be used what about LSE as both major uses are in use world wide, but have different meanings depending on whether one is working in financial, or the academic and political fields. But this is just one example of many where TLAs cause confusion and it may well not be the best one available. Perhaps Civil War be a better general example, as in countries in which they were fought it tends to have an unqualified meaning, but the phrase needs qualifying for an international readership. -- Philip Baird Shearer 20:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)}
JA: The subtitle of this article and many of the uses of "common name" within it conflict with the use of the terms "common name" and "common noun" as distinguished from "proper name" and "proper noun". I think that it would help a bit to be more consistent in the use of terms like "most common name" (MCN) and "most common use" (MCU). Jon Awbrey 20:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Convention: Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things.
Pelé is not a good example to use for common name. The spelling of "Pele" is about 6 times more common than "Pelé" when doing a Google search.
-- Philip Baird Shearer 06:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
you can redirect to other site using #REDIRECT [[www.hotmail.com]]
Not sure where to put this I'm posting this here and at RfC for politics. There are several articles about inter-state relations (e.g. Sino-American relations), but no clear naming convention. For instance, why is this article not American-Chinese relations? I have proposed a solution, but I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about it. From Talk:Sino-African relations:
There is not a dispute per se about the names, but I suppose I'm not clear on them and there is no obvious standard (although the alphabetical seems obvious to me.) Anyway, can anyone help me out here? - Justin (koavf)· T· C· M 16:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
There should be a separate naming convention guideline for countries' relations, and I'm willing to help. CG 08:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
If the specific naming guidelines for a group of objects is inconsistent with "Use common names", does the specific guideline take priority or does common names take priority? For example, if the simplest name is the actual name of the object and it is unambiguous, should it be required to follow the specific naming guideline? Can some be exempted from a specific naming guideline if the simplest name is unambiguous? This is especially important if the resulting name from the specific naming rule is inaccurate and not the simplest name. I am specifically thinking of the US state highway naming rules and US city naming rules. -- Polaron | Talk 01:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
In relation to the above question and the discussion going on at
WP:NC (settlements), I think clarity is needed on whether or not a refering to City, State like Chicago, Illinois or Seattle, Washington is uncommon? My personal view is that City, State is similar to a First, Last name convention like the example I used in the settlements discussion
If my name is Jane Smith then more likely then not I'm going to be called "Jane" more often hen Jane Smith. Around people I know, that's fine. But in every other respect from the name on my credit cards, to legal documents, to applications I fill, etc my public face with be that of "Jane Smith". In the same way a city (like Seattle or Chicago) is known by the common "first name". The more popular you are, the more people you know just like a bigger city is more well known. However, in public presentations (like Scott's example of writing a letter to someone in that city) you will see City, State. Including the "last name" state is not a form of pre-disambiguation, it's simply presenting the public face of that city. It just as correct and I would say just as common as listing a person's first and last name.
Other thoughts? It would be nice to get some consenus on this issue so that it maybe more clearly outlined in the guideline.
Agne 18:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Recent
requested moves has exposed a conflicted application of the Common Name convention and other pertinent policies--most notably
WP:PRECISION but also
English language compromises, current consenus on
City naming conventions, and
Japanese place names. The application of Common names being used is essentially that what is most common in Google or US usage should be the title of the article, irregardless of whether or not redirects already cover any practical, common phrasings.
I think there is flaws in this application and the conflict this application is creating is being felt in several naming conventions and article moves. Rather then conflict with WP:NC(precision) and MoS, the "Common name" guideline is meant to work in unision with these other guidelines. I think consideration should be made to clarify this guideline so that it works in better partnership with other guidelines.
Agne 19:18, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to get a broad consensus on what would be the best way to clarify the guideline. Some of my thoughts include,
Doesn't the nutshell explanation at the top of this page pretty much establish (common names) as the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to naming conventions by stating "Except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication, use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things"? If that is so, perhaps in addition to the expansion proposed above, that should be expanded upon as well. Basically, common names is the floor of the naming conventions (don't call an article on William III "The dude that was King of England") while the other naming conventions build upon common names. -- Bobblehead 20:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
All of the examples given in WP:PRECISION are consistent with WP:NC(CN) and vice versa. In addition, WP:PRECISION even states, "If a consensus is impossible to reach on precision, go with the rule of thumb, and use the more popular phrase." (See: WP:PRECISION#Conflicts over precision). All titles should, and can be, consistent with both WP:NC(CN) and WP:PRECISION. There is no conflict. -- Serge 23:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
There are dozens of naming conventions guidelines, see for example category:wikipedia naming conventions. All of these at some level or another make exceptions to the "common names" principle (if they didn't, they could simply be folded in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), couldn't they?) Where the heck is the problem? Oh, I see, none of you ever came to reading the "Exceptions" section of the "common names" NC guideline, where all this is neatly explained. -- Francis Schonken 08:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
The point is using common names is a principle guideline and one that should never be ignored entirely. Examples like Oprah v.s. Oprah Winfrey miss the point - both are common names used to refer to her. Use of either does not violate the guideline. But using a contrived title that almost no one ever uses, like Hollywood, Los Angeles, California for Hollywood, Fixed-wing aircraft for airplane or Ice lollipop (proposed) for Popsicle is something else again, and is a blatant violation of this guideline. Also, redirection does not address this issue at all, because it's not about helping anyone find the article, it's about what we convey about the name of the subject through the title once they reach the article, regardless of how they got there. -- Serge 17:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
(outdent)Ahhhh. I have been accused of having half a conversation in my head and appears this is one of those cases. The intent of the example was that an arbitrary decision was made to name articles of famous people (first name <middle if necessary> last name) unless they went by a single name instead of leaving the naming up to (CN). The logical comes into play in that (First <MI> Last) is a valid name for the person and naming the article that way will not cause indigestion among most editors/readers. There is also value in maintaining consistency throughout the encyclopedia. -- Bobblehead 05:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to propose that the common names convention should take a back seat to situations when an organization gives an official name. We've been currently discussing this issue informally at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name) with regard to Ohio State University vs. The Ohio State University. But the problem is more of a plague throughout Wikipedia.
Under this proposal, if accepted, the following exception would be rendered as part of the Naming conventions (common names):
Rationale: Accuracy should trump over "common names" when the organization that is the subject of the article uses a name that is not the popular (often uninformed) "common name."
Note also this is just a proposal. I'd first like to discuss this at length and flesh the issue out, after which it can be put to a well-publicized official straw poll.
There are bright spots on the horizon, I noticed that several pages do use official given names from an organization. For instance, Poet Laureate of the United States the popular, though incorrect, common name redirects to the official given name, Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress. — ExplorerCDT 21:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
No, no, NO!
At least, not onless you're very careful about how you word it so that it doesn't apply to Japanese animation and manga.
Because Japanese animation and manga first come out in Japan, and American fans 1) get information from Japan before the official American release, and 2) unofficially translate them before the official American release, there is a situation where the "official" name (i.e. the name which the American licensor has changed it to) is not the same as the "common" name (i.e. the name by which it was originally known in Japan, which remains well-known in America). Generally, when this happens, we create the article using the common name (which is the original Japanese name).
Your proposed rule would imply that when the American licensor changes the name of something we must use the changed name no matter what.
This is an extremely bad idea.
The difference between this and your examples, of course, is that in your examples the organization's name is more accurate and the common name is less accurate. The common name for anime/manga with changed names is actually more accurate in a sense.
I don't see much of a way around this except to precisely define what an "organization" is or to add something like "this rule only applies if the organization has designated a name for world-wide use". Ken Arromdee 15:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Another Name Dispute: Hunter × Hunter. Ken Arromdee 16:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
And Talk:Roronoa_Zoro#Requested_move. Ken Arromdee 21:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
The road is named Grand Street in Brooklyn and Grand Avenue in Queens. Can you suggest a good name? Thank you. -- NE2 08:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi. This evening, I closed a move request, moving the Union Flag article to Union Jack, as the latter is the more common name. I referenced this guideline in my reasoning. Another editor, at Talk:Union Jack#requested move: seriously? is arguing that the article ought to fall under the Tsunami/ Tidal wave exception, because "Union Jack" is a misleading name, the term "jack" only applying to flags used in certain contexts at sea.
I'm posting here to see what others think about this case. Anybody with thoughts on the matter, please come join us at Talk:Union Jack and help determine the best way to handle the situation. - GTBacchus( talk) 05:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice if we had a list, maybe even a bulleted list, of conventions which provide exceptions. It would have to provide a catchall clause, and a link to the special page with everything which starts with Naming conventions; but the discussion at Talk:Joshua A. Norton shows we need some way for a non-maven to see what isn't an exception. (Yes, the answer is "nearly everything", but try convincing a newbie of that ;->) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
On Template talk:History of Manchuria, one editor wrote: "The WP:NC(CN) is not relevant here because it is about common name of a 'person' or 'thing'". I've never heard this point made before. Is this correct?— Nat Krause( Talk!· What have I done?) 19:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
This may be explained somewhere but it is hard - or I find it hard - to find specific things in the Wiki guidelines etc. I understand and agree with the common naming conventions for article names, with the full name then being included in the beginning of the article itself BUT which name is used in the main name field of the Infobox and Persondata boxes? I've seen both used, even in the examples shown in the Naming convention pages eg Tony Blair is Tony Blair in the Infobox (not Anthony etc etc) BUT Bill Clinton has his full (William etc etc) name in the Infobox. Also Sea Cucumbers has Sea Cucumbers in its infobox, not the scientific name. If the Infobox and Persondata boxes are there for search and retrieval purposes I would expect them to have the same naming conventions as is used for articles but is there a guideline anywhere about this? Sterry2607 05:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
This page seems to suggest that the consensus for periods in names is to put a space between them (e.g., H. G. Wells). There was a recent topic open at the Villege Pump about this issue, and, well it was a small sample size, there was no conesnsus about what should be the default guideline. Topic at the VP can be found at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Naming_Conventions:_Abbreviations. This question is prompted by recent page moves by Koavf ( talk · contribs) who moved thousands of pages recently, quite a number based on this one exception listed here. I suggest we once again revisit this issue. Pepsidrinka 01:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I have come across several debates as to whether or not a common name is correct on Wikipedia as opposed to the correct name (in some cases they conflict). Which one should be followed? A guideline like this, I think, should be added into the page. Reginmund 01:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
For example, the Millenium Dome recently changed ownership, and subsequently changed its name. Some stubborn Wikipedians are voting against changing the old (and incorrect) name to the new name because they allege that it goes against the Common Name Policy. However, it seems that the correct name should come first, especially when the alleged common name is incorrect. Reginmund 02:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Opening up this discussion again, what about the case of " Nobel Prize in Economics" vs " Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel"? "Nobel Prize in Economics" is an incorrect name as the prize is not a Nobel Prize. The Nobel Prizes are defined by Alfred Nobel's will. Thus the Prize in Economic Sciences can't be a Nobel Prize since it was created by someone else, i.e., Bank of Sweden. However, the Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded at the same ceremony as the Nobel Prizes in Stockholm. Although inaccurate, the "Nobel Prize in Economics" is the common name used in the media (and the public), probably because the official name (Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel) is really long and no one wants to write it. There has been an on-going debate/war over how the Prize in Economic Sciences shouldn't be called a Nobel Prize, both on its talk page and in the media. Is Wikipedia's policy to use the incorrect, common name anyway? The danger with using the incorrect name is that Wikipedia would then be spreading misinformation. There is at least one user here who has claimed that since this common name is used in other places on the web and the econ prize is counted as a Nobel prize there, it is a valid reason to include the economics prize as a Nobel Prize in the Nobel Prize article here, regardless of the fact the Nobel Foundation never calls it a Nobel Prize. (The rationale was that the Prize in Economics was listed under a heading for Nobel Prizes on the Nobel Foundation website + there was an article on the web listing it as a Nobel Prize, thus it must be a Nobel Prize.) –panda 18:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Does it go without saying that articles on published works should always be titled according to that work's title, as opposed to the name it is most commonly known by? Is The White Album to be considered an example of the correct form? - Freekee 03:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The following statement in "See also" may need modification: "Wikipedia:Google test - Search engine testing might in some cases assist in discerning which of two alternative versions of a name is more common." After doing a quick comparison of results with other users in a survey, we've discovered that Google gives different hit numbers to different users, even for the same url. Besides the obvious point that not all search results may be relevant, the results of our tests make me question the validity of stating that a Google test might assist in discerning which name is more common when the results are unreliable. While I think the link to Wikipedia:Search engine test should be kept, I think the statement "Search engine testing might in some cases assist in discerning which of two alternative versions of a name is more common" should be removed since the article Wikipedia:Search engine test does a much better explanation of how to interpret results from a search test than a single sentence can convey. –panda 04:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
See current discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles)#How to proceed -- Francis Schonken 09:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I've been considering how to apply this rule in the case of certain fairly obscure ethnic groups and languages whose native names differ from the "most common" name (I was thinking primarily of Tu people and Li people (Monguor and Hlai, respectively), although there are probably other examples). If we stipulate that Tu and Li are the most commonly used forms in English, I'm still not sure that this is the best location for the articles. The notable thing about these cases is that "Tu" and "Li" are hard to search for. There are many other things called by those names, including short words in various languages and abbreviations. If we go by "What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine?" they might well be better off with Monguor and Hlai. So, the proposed change or clarification that I am considering would be something like:
Favour the indigenous name (autonym) for a group of people or a language, if it means all three of the following conditions:
1) Even the most commonly-used name of the group is fairly obscure and rarely used in English. This definitely not meant to apply to peoples like Tibetans, Iroquois, etc. who have a widely-known English name.
2) The autonym appears in a respectable publication somewhere outside of Wikipedia. Not just something that you've heard someone say, etc.
3) The more commonly-used name is difficult to search for, e.g. because of similarity to other words.
I'm not really sure if condition #3 is really necessary, but removing it would make for a more radical proposal. - Nat Krause( Talk!) 19:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
I think this is a very bad example to use on this page because of what I percive to be the the deliberate obfuscation of "SCO" by the SCO Group of the original The Santa Cruz Operation. There must be hundreds of clearer examples which could be used than this one-- Philip Baird Shearer 14:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I had not seen the discussion Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions (common names)/Archive 01#Most obvious?. Francis as more than one person has independently picked up on this, I really think you should reconsider you position as several people have flagged it as an unsound example. As I said before, there must be hundreds of clearer examples which could be used than this one. If a TLA is going to be used what about LSE as both major uses are in use world wide, but have different meanings depending on whether one is working in financial, or the academic and political fields. But this is just one example of many where TLAs cause confusion and it may well not be the best one available. Perhaps Civil War be a better general example, as in countries in which they were fought it tends to have an unqualified meaning, but the phrase needs qualifying for an international readership. -- Philip Baird Shearer 20:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)}
JA: The subtitle of this article and many of the uses of "common name" within it conflict with the use of the terms "common name" and "common noun" as distinguished from "proper name" and "proper noun". I think that it would help a bit to be more consistent in the use of terms like "most common name" (MCN) and "most common use" (MCU). Jon Awbrey 20:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Convention: Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things.
Pelé is not a good example to use for common name. The spelling of "Pele" is about 6 times more common than "Pelé" when doing a Google search.
-- Philip Baird Shearer 06:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
you can redirect to other site using #REDIRECT [[www.hotmail.com]]
Not sure where to put this I'm posting this here and at RfC for politics. There are several articles about inter-state relations (e.g. Sino-American relations), but no clear naming convention. For instance, why is this article not American-Chinese relations? I have proposed a solution, but I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about it. From Talk:Sino-African relations:
There is not a dispute per se about the names, but I suppose I'm not clear on them and there is no obvious standard (although the alphabetical seems obvious to me.) Anyway, can anyone help me out here? - Justin (koavf)· T· C· M 16:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
There should be a separate naming convention guideline for countries' relations, and I'm willing to help. CG 08:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
If the specific naming guidelines for a group of objects is inconsistent with "Use common names", does the specific guideline take priority or does common names take priority? For example, if the simplest name is the actual name of the object and it is unambiguous, should it be required to follow the specific naming guideline? Can some be exempted from a specific naming guideline if the simplest name is unambiguous? This is especially important if the resulting name from the specific naming rule is inaccurate and not the simplest name. I am specifically thinking of the US state highway naming rules and US city naming rules. -- Polaron | Talk 01:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
In relation to the above question and the discussion going on at
WP:NC (settlements), I think clarity is needed on whether or not a refering to City, State like Chicago, Illinois or Seattle, Washington is uncommon? My personal view is that City, State is similar to a First, Last name convention like the example I used in the settlements discussion
If my name is Jane Smith then more likely then not I'm going to be called "Jane" more often hen Jane Smith. Around people I know, that's fine. But in every other respect from the name on my credit cards, to legal documents, to applications I fill, etc my public face with be that of "Jane Smith". In the same way a city (like Seattle or Chicago) is known by the common "first name". The more popular you are, the more people you know just like a bigger city is more well known. However, in public presentations (like Scott's example of writing a letter to someone in that city) you will see City, State. Including the "last name" state is not a form of pre-disambiguation, it's simply presenting the public face of that city. It just as correct and I would say just as common as listing a person's first and last name.
Other thoughts? It would be nice to get some consenus on this issue so that it maybe more clearly outlined in the guideline.
Agne 18:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Recent
requested moves has exposed a conflicted application of the Common Name convention and other pertinent policies--most notably
WP:PRECISION but also
English language compromises, current consenus on
City naming conventions, and
Japanese place names. The application of Common names being used is essentially that what is most common in Google or US usage should be the title of the article, irregardless of whether or not redirects already cover any practical, common phrasings.
I think there is flaws in this application and the conflict this application is creating is being felt in several naming conventions and article moves. Rather then conflict with WP:NC(precision) and MoS, the "Common name" guideline is meant to work in unision with these other guidelines. I think consideration should be made to clarify this guideline so that it works in better partnership with other guidelines.
Agne 19:18, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to get a broad consensus on what would be the best way to clarify the guideline. Some of my thoughts include,
Doesn't the nutshell explanation at the top of this page pretty much establish (common names) as the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to naming conventions by stating "Except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication, use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things"? If that is so, perhaps in addition to the expansion proposed above, that should be expanded upon as well. Basically, common names is the floor of the naming conventions (don't call an article on William III "The dude that was King of England") while the other naming conventions build upon common names. -- Bobblehead 20:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
All of the examples given in WP:PRECISION are consistent with WP:NC(CN) and vice versa. In addition, WP:PRECISION even states, "If a consensus is impossible to reach on precision, go with the rule of thumb, and use the more popular phrase." (See: WP:PRECISION#Conflicts over precision). All titles should, and can be, consistent with both WP:NC(CN) and WP:PRECISION. There is no conflict. -- Serge 23:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
There are dozens of naming conventions guidelines, see for example category:wikipedia naming conventions. All of these at some level or another make exceptions to the "common names" principle (if they didn't, they could simply be folded in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), couldn't they?) Where the heck is the problem? Oh, I see, none of you ever came to reading the "Exceptions" section of the "common names" NC guideline, where all this is neatly explained. -- Francis Schonken 08:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
The point is using common names is a principle guideline and one that should never be ignored entirely. Examples like Oprah v.s. Oprah Winfrey miss the point - both are common names used to refer to her. Use of either does not violate the guideline. But using a contrived title that almost no one ever uses, like Hollywood, Los Angeles, California for Hollywood, Fixed-wing aircraft for airplane or Ice lollipop (proposed) for Popsicle is something else again, and is a blatant violation of this guideline. Also, redirection does not address this issue at all, because it's not about helping anyone find the article, it's about what we convey about the name of the subject through the title once they reach the article, regardless of how they got there. -- Serge 17:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
(outdent)Ahhhh. I have been accused of having half a conversation in my head and appears this is one of those cases. The intent of the example was that an arbitrary decision was made to name articles of famous people (first name <middle if necessary> last name) unless they went by a single name instead of leaving the naming up to (CN). The logical comes into play in that (First <MI> Last) is a valid name for the person and naming the article that way will not cause indigestion among most editors/readers. There is also value in maintaining consistency throughout the encyclopedia. -- Bobblehead 05:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to propose that the common names convention should take a back seat to situations when an organization gives an official name. We've been currently discussing this issue informally at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name) with regard to Ohio State University vs. The Ohio State University. But the problem is more of a plague throughout Wikipedia.
Under this proposal, if accepted, the following exception would be rendered as part of the Naming conventions (common names):
Rationale: Accuracy should trump over "common names" when the organization that is the subject of the article uses a name that is not the popular (often uninformed) "common name."
Note also this is just a proposal. I'd first like to discuss this at length and flesh the issue out, after which it can be put to a well-publicized official straw poll.
There are bright spots on the horizon, I noticed that several pages do use official given names from an organization. For instance, Poet Laureate of the United States the popular, though incorrect, common name redirects to the official given name, Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress. — ExplorerCDT 21:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
No, no, NO!
At least, not onless you're very careful about how you word it so that it doesn't apply to Japanese animation and manga.
Because Japanese animation and manga first come out in Japan, and American fans 1) get information from Japan before the official American release, and 2) unofficially translate them before the official American release, there is a situation where the "official" name (i.e. the name which the American licensor has changed it to) is not the same as the "common" name (i.e. the name by which it was originally known in Japan, which remains well-known in America). Generally, when this happens, we create the article using the common name (which is the original Japanese name).
Your proposed rule would imply that when the American licensor changes the name of something we must use the changed name no matter what.
This is an extremely bad idea.
The difference between this and your examples, of course, is that in your examples the organization's name is more accurate and the common name is less accurate. The common name for anime/manga with changed names is actually more accurate in a sense.
I don't see much of a way around this except to precisely define what an "organization" is or to add something like "this rule only applies if the organization has designated a name for world-wide use". Ken Arromdee 15:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Another Name Dispute: Hunter × Hunter. Ken Arromdee 16:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
And Talk:Roronoa_Zoro#Requested_move. Ken Arromdee 21:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
The road is named Grand Street in Brooklyn and Grand Avenue in Queens. Can you suggest a good name? Thank you. -- NE2 08:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi. This evening, I closed a move request, moving the Union Flag article to Union Jack, as the latter is the more common name. I referenced this guideline in my reasoning. Another editor, at Talk:Union Jack#requested move: seriously? is arguing that the article ought to fall under the Tsunami/ Tidal wave exception, because "Union Jack" is a misleading name, the term "jack" only applying to flags used in certain contexts at sea.
I'm posting here to see what others think about this case. Anybody with thoughts on the matter, please come join us at Talk:Union Jack and help determine the best way to handle the situation. - GTBacchus( talk) 05:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice if we had a list, maybe even a bulleted list, of conventions which provide exceptions. It would have to provide a catchall clause, and a link to the special page with everything which starts with Naming conventions; but the discussion at Talk:Joshua A. Norton shows we need some way for a non-maven to see what isn't an exception. (Yes, the answer is "nearly everything", but try convincing a newbie of that ;->) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
On Template talk:History of Manchuria, one editor wrote: "The WP:NC(CN) is not relevant here because it is about common name of a 'person' or 'thing'". I've never heard this point made before. Is this correct?— Nat Krause( Talk!· What have I done?) 19:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
This may be explained somewhere but it is hard - or I find it hard - to find specific things in the Wiki guidelines etc. I understand and agree with the common naming conventions for article names, with the full name then being included in the beginning of the article itself BUT which name is used in the main name field of the Infobox and Persondata boxes? I've seen both used, even in the examples shown in the Naming convention pages eg Tony Blair is Tony Blair in the Infobox (not Anthony etc etc) BUT Bill Clinton has his full (William etc etc) name in the Infobox. Also Sea Cucumbers has Sea Cucumbers in its infobox, not the scientific name. If the Infobox and Persondata boxes are there for search and retrieval purposes I would expect them to have the same naming conventions as is used for articles but is there a guideline anywhere about this? Sterry2607 05:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
This page seems to suggest that the consensus for periods in names is to put a space between them (e.g., H. G. Wells). There was a recent topic open at the Villege Pump about this issue, and, well it was a small sample size, there was no conesnsus about what should be the default guideline. Topic at the VP can be found at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Naming_Conventions:_Abbreviations. This question is prompted by recent page moves by Koavf ( talk · contribs) who moved thousands of pages recently, quite a number based on this one exception listed here. I suggest we once again revisit this issue. Pepsidrinka 01:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I have come across several debates as to whether or not a common name is correct on Wikipedia as opposed to the correct name (in some cases they conflict). Which one should be followed? A guideline like this, I think, should be added into the page. Reginmund 01:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
For example, the Millenium Dome recently changed ownership, and subsequently changed its name. Some stubborn Wikipedians are voting against changing the old (and incorrect) name to the new name because they allege that it goes against the Common Name Policy. However, it seems that the correct name should come first, especially when the alleged common name is incorrect. Reginmund 02:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Opening up this discussion again, what about the case of " Nobel Prize in Economics" vs " Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel"? "Nobel Prize in Economics" is an incorrect name as the prize is not a Nobel Prize. The Nobel Prizes are defined by Alfred Nobel's will. Thus the Prize in Economic Sciences can't be a Nobel Prize since it was created by someone else, i.e., Bank of Sweden. However, the Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded at the same ceremony as the Nobel Prizes in Stockholm. Although inaccurate, the "Nobel Prize in Economics" is the common name used in the media (and the public), probably because the official name (Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel) is really long and no one wants to write it. There has been an on-going debate/war over how the Prize in Economic Sciences shouldn't be called a Nobel Prize, both on its talk page and in the media. Is Wikipedia's policy to use the incorrect, common name anyway? The danger with using the incorrect name is that Wikipedia would then be spreading misinformation. There is at least one user here who has claimed that since this common name is used in other places on the web and the econ prize is counted as a Nobel prize there, it is a valid reason to include the economics prize as a Nobel Prize in the Nobel Prize article here, regardless of the fact the Nobel Foundation never calls it a Nobel Prize. (The rationale was that the Prize in Economics was listed under a heading for Nobel Prizes on the Nobel Foundation website + there was an article on the web listing it as a Nobel Prize, thus it must be a Nobel Prize.) –panda 18:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Does it go without saying that articles on published works should always be titled according to that work's title, as opposed to the name it is most commonly known by? Is The White Album to be considered an example of the correct form? - Freekee 03:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The following statement in "See also" may need modification: "Wikipedia:Google test - Search engine testing might in some cases assist in discerning which of two alternative versions of a name is more common." After doing a quick comparison of results with other users in a survey, we've discovered that Google gives different hit numbers to different users, even for the same url. Besides the obvious point that not all search results may be relevant, the results of our tests make me question the validity of stating that a Google test might assist in discerning which name is more common when the results are unreliable. While I think the link to Wikipedia:Search engine test should be kept, I think the statement "Search engine testing might in some cases assist in discerning which of two alternative versions of a name is more common" should be removed since the article Wikipedia:Search engine test does a much better explanation of how to interpret results from a search test than a single sentence can convey. –panda 04:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
See current discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles)#How to proceed -- Francis Schonken 09:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)