![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I've been editing articles for a Japanese manga series Hunter × Hunter, and we've reached the problem of deciding what translations to use for names.
I've been browsing through the archieved "Fictional characters discussion", but it doesn't appear any conclusion was reached.
And there's no note on the acutal Japanese Manual of Style that addresses this problem.
Basically, Hunter × Hunter has existed mostly on the internet as scanlations only. The manga was licensed about a year ago. At the time it was licensed, there were about 22 volumes of Hunter × Hunter out, and all of them scanlated.
Now, ViZ has been releasing Hunter × Hunter, i believe they're up to about volume 10 now.
ViZ uses a different set of translations from the scanlation groups (which had all pretty much agreed on the same ones), and sometimes these translations are *very* different.
The point is, Hunter × Hunter is really not all that popular outside the internet. The fandom for Hunter × Hunter is completely internet based, and almost completely based on the scanlation version. Very few people actually use the ViZ translation of the name. Simple google tests can prove that. The Hunter × Hunter english fandom has one main center and i can also verify from experience that the ViZ names are just about never used (except when actually discussing ViZ name changes).
So is it okay to stick with the scanlation names, even though they are not official, because they are the common accepted ones amoung the majority of fans? ANd simply acknolwedge the ViZ variations exist in the appropriate spots?
-- Yaksha 23:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
For more specialized Japanese words where English-language speakers are often familiar with Japanese word usage, such as koi, sushi, haiku, anime, ronin, or dojo, the word is usually the same for both singular and plural forms.
I'm interested in seeing the word dojo treated as an english loan word on Wikipedia; particularly, I feel it should be pluralized as dojos and typed in non-italics. My personal reason for this is that anecdotally I find the plural form dojos to be the more common useage, and the useage of the plural dojo seems affected.
While it is anything but a household word across the English-speaking world, I do feel it is relatively common at this point. More compellingly, it is a term that is often applied (correctly or incorrectly as the case may be) to training halls for martial arts that are not Japanese in origin, or martial arts that have succeeded far enough from a traditional Japanese source that they have become Anglicized themselves. When I was a child I trained in a Korean martial art under an American who was trained by an American, and he called the school a "dojo." I do not have any reason to believe my instructor had a clue that the word dojo was even derived from the Japanese. I am sure my experience with this word is not unique.
Last but not least, I checked with Merriam-Webster and the word is listed there, pluralizable as dojos.
I just wanted to share my thoughts amongst Wikipedians and see if anybody has any thoughts on the matter. Transentient
I've just noticed that the MOS and the article on Hepburn romanization contradict one another when it comes to the long vowel ええ. The MOS says it should be typed as "ee" but the Hepburn article says it should be typed as "ei". Which should we use? Bobo12345 11:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, this isn't exactly an MoS issue, but it's been puzzling me for a while and I'm sure somebody can give me an explanation -- so why doesn't the Japanese Wikipedia ever give the names of criminals, even if they have been convicted in a court of law? Eg. Takuma Mamoru, the guy behind the Ikeda Elementary School massacre, has no article and the article only refers to him as "37歳の男" and later "犯人", even though the guy was convicted of mass murder and executed two years ago! The article's Talk page has a reference to a 「犯人の個人情報全面抹消に関する件」(total erasure of criminals' personal infomation) but no link to anything that would explain this.
Mainstream Japanese media certainly seem to have no such compunctions, bandying about his name and everything they could dig up about him long before the conviction. (But, of course, they mosaiced out the handcuffs, so nobody would suspect him of being a suspect of something, heavens no.) Jpatokal 16:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
An admineditor on the Japanese wikipedia left an interesting note at
Talk:Fusako Sano#Japanese interwiki. I admire the dedication, but I wonder what would happen if a reference (on the Japanese WP) was added from an article at Yomiuri's site for example (not a name, but a reference to an article which has the name)...
Neier
13:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Someone had added nonstandard pronunciation guides to two articles (Yuri and Manga). They would have had to be converted to IPA as per the general MoS, but they would also have been totally redundant given the romanization, so I removed them for now.
What is our general take on this? When, if at all, do we want an IPA guide in addition to the romanization? Shinobu 07:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
@pronunciation and romanization are separate: Not really. The romanization scheme we use on Wikipedia is very regular, and deviations are very rare. The example you cited is incorrect, by the way. There's iku (yuku), wo (o or wo), he (e), ha (wa), iu (yuu) and I think that takes care of the most frequently used ones. Note that we regularize the romanization in many cases to reflect pronunciation.
@explicitly permits: but not as a primary pronunciation guide: "Pronunciation transcriptions based on traditional English spelling are deprecated."
@the word itself _is_ the IPA: No. You're very wrong about that. Read up on IPA and romanization, please. The use of "IPA same" would be a very bad idea too, because that could lead people into believing that we romanize Japanese words using IPA. However, IPA guides are nearly always redundant, because they define the pronunciation as unambiguously as possible anyway. A problem with IPA and English based guides is that they don't deal with e.g. unvoicing, which sometimes happens, and sometimes doesn't.
Is clogging up the article with pronunciation guides necessary, when an explanation of the romaji system is always one click away? Shinobu 02:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I know we've been through this for sumō, but I have to ask again for Kabuki. What do people think about placing modern (post-Meiji) Kabuki actors in traditional name order? Here's my thoughts:
Please let me know what you think. Thank you. LordAmeth 22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the editors of the Utada Hikaru article use the "Stage name" idea to keep her name in Japanese order. But the actors' real names MUST be in Western order. WhisperToMe 22:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
What about sumo wrestlers, then? I know, that's a bad joke. I think it makes sense to keep the names in the Japanese form in this case. Still, it seems like a slippery slope. Dekimasu 15:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I have seen several articles that say that so and so is in Kyūshū, or in Shikoku. If we are talking about islands, shouldn't they all say on instead of in? Is there an appropriate global MoS for that somewhere? Even so, Hokkaido and Okinawa provide some interesting quandries, because "in Okinawa" is fine when talking about it as a prefecture and not an island (so and so was born in Okinawa, etc). I have no idea on how to start formulating a rule for those two, to differentiate between the "island" and "prefecture" in prose; but, Kyūshū and Shikoku seem fairly clear to me. Any thoughts? Neier 00:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Both are correct, because Kyūshū and Shikoku are the names of regions (like Kansai and Tōhoku), as well as the names of islands. Dekimasu 06:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I would like to create an entry for Osaka (忍坂). This is an old city in Nara Prefecture and it not Osaka city. There are some important historical and literary developments that occurred there. The entry Osaka is for a different city and conflicts. A simple solution is to move Osaka to Ōsaka and add a note to the disambiguation page. However, I am sure that some here will not approve. Please advise. Bendono 04:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Are historic cities covered by the <city, prefecture> convention? The modern prefectures may not have been in place when the old city existed. Its territory is within Sakurai, Nara and naming it Osaka, Nara may give the impression that it is a current municipality in Nara. -- Polaron | Talk 05:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
As some of the discussion above points out, the Wikipedia:Naming conventions, not completely but to some extent, defers it to this page for Japanese usage, in addition to the normal purposes of Manual of Style subpages.
Therefore, in our discussions, it is often important to distinguish between the two or three different hats we wear; that is, the different roles we play in different situations. More effort is needed to keep clear the distinction between determining which spelling is going to occupy the one slot available for an articles name, usage within the article whose name is determined that way (which should almost always include variant spellings), and usage in other articles. Gene Nygaard 13:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
The entry on Osaka, Yamato is still coming up. However, I would like to bring up a few more issues that I think are relavent overall to some of the topics being discussed now. With a few exceptions, places are filed as Name, Prefecture.
Places called Osaka:
Places called Ōsaka:
With so many Osaka / Ōsaka, Wikipedia insists on special casing one of them in two ways:
I still believe that the macron should be there. But, putting that aside, at the very least, specify which Osaka / Ōsaka it is by moving it to Osaka, Osaka (or Ōsaka, Ōsaka, or Ōsaka, Osaka, or Osaka, Ōsaka).
The current guidelines allow macrons on all except for one of the Ōsaka locations, so filing those will not be a problem. However, for the other 18 Osaka locations, they will need to be added to the Osaka disambiguation page. The Osaka page should contain the disambiguatin page and not default to the Ōsaka found in Ōsaka. Bendono 10:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Of course you are free to make new articles, but to say that people aren't searching for Ōsaka, Ōsaka is disingenuous. Forgive me for speaking for everyone. Most people have not made special trips to places called Osaka solely because of the name. Of the 2000+ links directly to Osaka (as opposed to a redirect page to Osaka), I doubt that even five are to Osakas other than Ōsaka, Ōsaka. And if most people aren't searching for Ōsaka, Ōsaka, then why haven't any of those other articles been written? Dekimasu 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
From WP:Disambiguation: "When there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase (indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that topic may be used for the title of the main article, with a disambiguation link at the top.... For example, the primary topic Rome has a link at the top to Rome (disambiguation), where there is a link back via Rome, Italy (rather than directly to Rome)." Dekimasu 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
This is exactly what we have now at Osaka. The metropolitan area has more than 18,000,000 people. It should not have the same weight as a small town in Fukui or Tokushima. 大坂 even redirects to 大阪 on the Japanese Wikipedia. Dekimasu 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
You missed Ōsaka (逢坂), Shiga, probably because it starts おう instead of おお. Information loss even with the macrons! Dekimasu 12:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
What's the best title for the article Rashomon Gate? The issues include macrons, mon or -mon, Gate or no Gate, and sho or jo. For starters, I suggest Rajō-mon. Fg2 07:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I have 2 questions (I'm sorry it's tricky, so read carefully, please) ...
Railway station names and railway line names as a whole are not company names. But if they include company names, do they count as company names or not? Based on WP:MOS-JA, we don't use macrons in company names.-- Endroit 05:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Coincidently, myself and LordAmeth have just come upon a similar problem to this as well. The Kyushu Railway Company and Hokkaido Railway Company both clearly use no macrons on their official websites. However when talking about the Kyushu Shinkansen and the Hokkaido Shinkansen, the former has an official website and uses the non-macroned title, whereas the Hokkaido Shinkansen has no website in English (as far as I can tell) and therefore I think we would be free to call it the Hokkaidō Shinkansen under the current system. Needless to say, that situation would be a bit inconsistant. If the parent company is macron-free, then surely its shinkansen project must be too.
As a solution to this problem, I would propose that the names of geographical place names within company names should be macronised according to the parent article of that geographical place (which in turn is already determined under the WP:MOS-JP). So, Tokyo Broadcasting System and Osaka Gas would remain as they are without macrons (because the parent Tokyo and Osaka location articles are also without macrons), but Kyushu Railway Company would become Kyūshū Railway Company (because the parent article is Kyūshū). What do people think? Bobo12345 08:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I've been currently trying to head off some arguments in the Cosplay article regarding the type of photos to use for its International Cosplay section. An initial picture had been posted earlier, but it was linked to an adult site, which I feel shouldn't be a very good representative for cosplaying in general. Earlier photos have also been removed by some administrators for vanity issues. Does anyone here have any suggestions regarding what photos would be most suitable? It would seem though, that every time a photo is posted on the international cosplay section, some accusations of vanity photos have arisen - would leaving the section devoid of photos be a better idea instead? Input would be much appreciated, thanks. Mirshariff 01:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Is there any policy about including hiragana in the first sentence for words that have kanji, but where the hiragara is more commonly used? Take for example Konjac. Kanji writing is 蒟蒻, but those kanji are uncommon, and the hiragana writing こんにゃく is more commonly used. (6 mil google hits, compare with 2 mil). We should have the kanji writing too of course, but I suggest including the hiragana as well in these cases. -- Apoc2400 12:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I've been editing articles for a Japanese manga series Hunter × Hunter, and we've reached the problem of deciding what translations to use for names.
I've been browsing through the archieved "Fictional characters discussion", but it doesn't appear any conclusion was reached.
And there's no note on the acutal Japanese Manual of Style that addresses this problem.
Basically, Hunter × Hunter has existed mostly on the internet as scanlations only. The manga was licensed about a year ago. At the time it was licensed, there were about 22 volumes of Hunter × Hunter out, and all of them scanlated.
Now, ViZ has been releasing Hunter × Hunter, i believe they're up to about volume 10 now.
ViZ uses a different set of translations from the scanlation groups (which had all pretty much agreed on the same ones), and sometimes these translations are *very* different.
The point is, Hunter × Hunter is really not all that popular outside the internet. The fandom for Hunter × Hunter is completely internet based, and almost completely based on the scanlation version. Very few people actually use the ViZ translation of the name. Simple google tests can prove that. The Hunter × Hunter english fandom has one main center and i can also verify from experience that the ViZ names are just about never used (except when actually discussing ViZ name changes).
So is it okay to stick with the scanlation names, even though they are not official, because they are the common accepted ones amoung the majority of fans? ANd simply acknolwedge the ViZ variations exist in the appropriate spots?
-- Yaksha 23:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
For more specialized Japanese words where English-language speakers are often familiar with Japanese word usage, such as koi, sushi, haiku, anime, ronin, or dojo, the word is usually the same for both singular and plural forms.
I'm interested in seeing the word dojo treated as an english loan word on Wikipedia; particularly, I feel it should be pluralized as dojos and typed in non-italics. My personal reason for this is that anecdotally I find the plural form dojos to be the more common useage, and the useage of the plural dojo seems affected.
While it is anything but a household word across the English-speaking world, I do feel it is relatively common at this point. More compellingly, it is a term that is often applied (correctly or incorrectly as the case may be) to training halls for martial arts that are not Japanese in origin, or martial arts that have succeeded far enough from a traditional Japanese source that they have become Anglicized themselves. When I was a child I trained in a Korean martial art under an American who was trained by an American, and he called the school a "dojo." I do not have any reason to believe my instructor had a clue that the word dojo was even derived from the Japanese. I am sure my experience with this word is not unique.
Last but not least, I checked with Merriam-Webster and the word is listed there, pluralizable as dojos.
I just wanted to share my thoughts amongst Wikipedians and see if anybody has any thoughts on the matter. Transentient
I've just noticed that the MOS and the article on Hepburn romanization contradict one another when it comes to the long vowel ええ. The MOS says it should be typed as "ee" but the Hepburn article says it should be typed as "ei". Which should we use? Bobo12345 11:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, this isn't exactly an MoS issue, but it's been puzzling me for a while and I'm sure somebody can give me an explanation -- so why doesn't the Japanese Wikipedia ever give the names of criminals, even if they have been convicted in a court of law? Eg. Takuma Mamoru, the guy behind the Ikeda Elementary School massacre, has no article and the article only refers to him as "37歳の男" and later "犯人", even though the guy was convicted of mass murder and executed two years ago! The article's Talk page has a reference to a 「犯人の個人情報全面抹消に関する件」(total erasure of criminals' personal infomation) but no link to anything that would explain this.
Mainstream Japanese media certainly seem to have no such compunctions, bandying about his name and everything they could dig up about him long before the conviction. (But, of course, they mosaiced out the handcuffs, so nobody would suspect him of being a suspect of something, heavens no.) Jpatokal 16:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
An admineditor on the Japanese wikipedia left an interesting note at
Talk:Fusako Sano#Japanese interwiki. I admire the dedication, but I wonder what would happen if a reference (on the Japanese WP) was added from an article at Yomiuri's site for example (not a name, but a reference to an article which has the name)...
Neier
13:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Someone had added nonstandard pronunciation guides to two articles (Yuri and Manga). They would have had to be converted to IPA as per the general MoS, but they would also have been totally redundant given the romanization, so I removed them for now.
What is our general take on this? When, if at all, do we want an IPA guide in addition to the romanization? Shinobu 07:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
@pronunciation and romanization are separate: Not really. The romanization scheme we use on Wikipedia is very regular, and deviations are very rare. The example you cited is incorrect, by the way. There's iku (yuku), wo (o or wo), he (e), ha (wa), iu (yuu) and I think that takes care of the most frequently used ones. Note that we regularize the romanization in many cases to reflect pronunciation.
@explicitly permits: but not as a primary pronunciation guide: "Pronunciation transcriptions based on traditional English spelling are deprecated."
@the word itself _is_ the IPA: No. You're very wrong about that. Read up on IPA and romanization, please. The use of "IPA same" would be a very bad idea too, because that could lead people into believing that we romanize Japanese words using IPA. However, IPA guides are nearly always redundant, because they define the pronunciation as unambiguously as possible anyway. A problem with IPA and English based guides is that they don't deal with e.g. unvoicing, which sometimes happens, and sometimes doesn't.
Is clogging up the article with pronunciation guides necessary, when an explanation of the romaji system is always one click away? Shinobu 02:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I know we've been through this for sumō, but I have to ask again for Kabuki. What do people think about placing modern (post-Meiji) Kabuki actors in traditional name order? Here's my thoughts:
Please let me know what you think. Thank you. LordAmeth 22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the editors of the Utada Hikaru article use the "Stage name" idea to keep her name in Japanese order. But the actors' real names MUST be in Western order. WhisperToMe 22:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
What about sumo wrestlers, then? I know, that's a bad joke. I think it makes sense to keep the names in the Japanese form in this case. Still, it seems like a slippery slope. Dekimasu 15:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I have seen several articles that say that so and so is in Kyūshū, or in Shikoku. If we are talking about islands, shouldn't they all say on instead of in? Is there an appropriate global MoS for that somewhere? Even so, Hokkaido and Okinawa provide some interesting quandries, because "in Okinawa" is fine when talking about it as a prefecture and not an island (so and so was born in Okinawa, etc). I have no idea on how to start formulating a rule for those two, to differentiate between the "island" and "prefecture" in prose; but, Kyūshū and Shikoku seem fairly clear to me. Any thoughts? Neier 00:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Both are correct, because Kyūshū and Shikoku are the names of regions (like Kansai and Tōhoku), as well as the names of islands. Dekimasu 06:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I would like to create an entry for Osaka (忍坂). This is an old city in Nara Prefecture and it not Osaka city. There are some important historical and literary developments that occurred there. The entry Osaka is for a different city and conflicts. A simple solution is to move Osaka to Ōsaka and add a note to the disambiguation page. However, I am sure that some here will not approve. Please advise. Bendono 04:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Are historic cities covered by the <city, prefecture> convention? The modern prefectures may not have been in place when the old city existed. Its territory is within Sakurai, Nara and naming it Osaka, Nara may give the impression that it is a current municipality in Nara. -- Polaron | Talk 05:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
As some of the discussion above points out, the Wikipedia:Naming conventions, not completely but to some extent, defers it to this page for Japanese usage, in addition to the normal purposes of Manual of Style subpages.
Therefore, in our discussions, it is often important to distinguish between the two or three different hats we wear; that is, the different roles we play in different situations. More effort is needed to keep clear the distinction between determining which spelling is going to occupy the one slot available for an articles name, usage within the article whose name is determined that way (which should almost always include variant spellings), and usage in other articles. Gene Nygaard 13:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
The entry on Osaka, Yamato is still coming up. However, I would like to bring up a few more issues that I think are relavent overall to some of the topics being discussed now. With a few exceptions, places are filed as Name, Prefecture.
Places called Osaka:
Places called Ōsaka:
With so many Osaka / Ōsaka, Wikipedia insists on special casing one of them in two ways:
I still believe that the macron should be there. But, putting that aside, at the very least, specify which Osaka / Ōsaka it is by moving it to Osaka, Osaka (or Ōsaka, Ōsaka, or Ōsaka, Osaka, or Osaka, Ōsaka).
The current guidelines allow macrons on all except for one of the Ōsaka locations, so filing those will not be a problem. However, for the other 18 Osaka locations, they will need to be added to the Osaka disambiguation page. The Osaka page should contain the disambiguatin page and not default to the Ōsaka found in Ōsaka. Bendono 10:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Of course you are free to make new articles, but to say that people aren't searching for Ōsaka, Ōsaka is disingenuous. Forgive me for speaking for everyone. Most people have not made special trips to places called Osaka solely because of the name. Of the 2000+ links directly to Osaka (as opposed to a redirect page to Osaka), I doubt that even five are to Osakas other than Ōsaka, Ōsaka. And if most people aren't searching for Ōsaka, Ōsaka, then why haven't any of those other articles been written? Dekimasu 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
From WP:Disambiguation: "When there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase (indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that topic may be used for the title of the main article, with a disambiguation link at the top.... For example, the primary topic Rome has a link at the top to Rome (disambiguation), where there is a link back via Rome, Italy (rather than directly to Rome)." Dekimasu 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
This is exactly what we have now at Osaka. The metropolitan area has more than 18,000,000 people. It should not have the same weight as a small town in Fukui or Tokushima. 大坂 even redirects to 大阪 on the Japanese Wikipedia. Dekimasu 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
You missed Ōsaka (逢坂), Shiga, probably because it starts おう instead of おお. Information loss even with the macrons! Dekimasu 12:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
What's the best title for the article Rashomon Gate? The issues include macrons, mon or -mon, Gate or no Gate, and sho or jo. For starters, I suggest Rajō-mon. Fg2 07:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I have 2 questions (I'm sorry it's tricky, so read carefully, please) ...
Railway station names and railway line names as a whole are not company names. But if they include company names, do they count as company names or not? Based on WP:MOS-JA, we don't use macrons in company names.-- Endroit 05:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Coincidently, myself and LordAmeth have just come upon a similar problem to this as well. The Kyushu Railway Company and Hokkaido Railway Company both clearly use no macrons on their official websites. However when talking about the Kyushu Shinkansen and the Hokkaido Shinkansen, the former has an official website and uses the non-macroned title, whereas the Hokkaido Shinkansen has no website in English (as far as I can tell) and therefore I think we would be free to call it the Hokkaidō Shinkansen under the current system. Needless to say, that situation would be a bit inconsistant. If the parent company is macron-free, then surely its shinkansen project must be too.
As a solution to this problem, I would propose that the names of geographical place names within company names should be macronised according to the parent article of that geographical place (which in turn is already determined under the WP:MOS-JP). So, Tokyo Broadcasting System and Osaka Gas would remain as they are without macrons (because the parent Tokyo and Osaka location articles are also without macrons), but Kyushu Railway Company would become Kyūshū Railway Company (because the parent article is Kyūshū). What do people think? Bobo12345 08:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I've been currently trying to head off some arguments in the Cosplay article regarding the type of photos to use for its International Cosplay section. An initial picture had been posted earlier, but it was linked to an adult site, which I feel shouldn't be a very good representative for cosplaying in general. Earlier photos have also been removed by some administrators for vanity issues. Does anyone here have any suggestions regarding what photos would be most suitable? It would seem though, that every time a photo is posted on the international cosplay section, some accusations of vanity photos have arisen - would leaving the section devoid of photos be a better idea instead? Input would be much appreciated, thanks. Mirshariff 01:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Is there any policy about including hiragana in the first sentence for words that have kanji, but where the hiragara is more commonly used? Take for example Konjac. Kanji writing is 蒟蒻, but those kanji are uncommon, and the hiragana writing こんにゃく is more commonly used. (6 mil google hits, compare with 2 mil). We should have the kanji writing too of course, but I suggest including the hiragana as well in these cases. -- Apoc2400 12:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)